Grant Sinclair

Grant Sinclair (@grant__sinclair) grew up duck hunting the famed Reelfoot Lake in West Tennessee and now travels throughout the continent chasing ducks and geese. On top of being a skilled waterfowler, Grant is remarkably talented when it comes to capturing waterfowl on camera. His videos have built a huge following on social media, and the channel also serves as a platform for him to call out some questionable behavior in the sport. He shares some of his experiences freelancing north of the border over the past 15+ years and the changes he’s seen across all of duck and goose hunting. 

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Transcript

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Welcome to the Standard Sportsman Podcast. The show features trending topics, touching all aspects of duck and goose hunting, in an effort to motivate others to leave the resource better than they found it. Hosts Cason Short and Brent Birch are lifelong Arkansas hunter conservationists, delivering thought-provoking discussions with engaging guests, before, during and after duck season. Thanks for spending time with us today. Now, let's jump into today's show with the guys.

Hey, everybody.

Welcome back to another episode of The Standard Sportsman. Cason Short joined us always with Brent Birch. Brent, you see the article, I know you did existent it to you. Did you see the article about the farmer and the wetland, and now the new life maybe breathed into it with the Chevron ruling?

Yeah. I thought it was interesting just because it does tie back to that previous episode we did with Dave Wilms from the National Wildlife Federation, which at the time when he talked about it, it's hard to connect the dots. How is this going to impact ducks and geese and everything else? But yeah, this case in South Dakota, was almost a direct correlation because you've got a landowner that has been fighting the federal government for 20 years over a wetland, that they tell him he can't drain it, and he believes he can because it's not connected to another waterway. And now with this Chevron doctrine getting blown up by the Supreme Court, he can, he feels he's got some leverage to be able to take this, to where he didn't have to maintain that wetland anymore. And we all know what happens when wetlands start going away. So yeah, really interesting.

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It was, and so to give a quick kind of rundown for everyone that's listening that's not familiar with it. Apparently, the landowner planted a windbreak, a combination of trees. I don't remember the composition of the trees, but planted a windbreak on the edge of a field at the suggestion of I believe the NRCS, Natural Resources Conservation Service. Then because of this, they created this 0.8 acre, that's right, less than one acre wetland in the field uphill from where you planted these trees. I get how that happens. We did some stuff, planted some similar things, and then had some drainage issues because of it. But I will say, it had to be low-lying anyway, or you wouldn't have created this problem. So, I will argue against him a little bit there. If it had been really well drained, the trees wouldn't have mattered. But yeah, he's upset about.8 acres. He's brought in his own engineering firm. They claim that it's not a natural wetland, that it should be drained. NRCS won't hear his argument from their own outside council. So the suits have been going back and forth for 20 years. And now it looks like he's got some leadway to continue his fight. And I don't know, I'll get your opinions on it, Brent, because I'll go either way. I mean, I can see it from a landowner standpoint. I can also see where he willingly took government payments, knew what he was agreeing to, and you accepted those, and then you changed your mind. It's not really how that works.

No, no, it's not. Yeah, and I'm similar. I can see both sides of the coin with it. And just for a quick, I guess, refresher too on what this Chevron Doctrine, what this all is, in case somebody didn't catch that episode forever, basically, since this thing went in place, this was a court case against Chevron, the big, huge oil company, and it basically said whatever the federal government says regarding something environmental related, that's it. That's the final deal, and they don't even really have to necessarily be real thorough in proving it out. And so they could rely on this Chevron doctrine to say what they say goes. And the Supreme Court, last July, this past July, said this was another case that came up, it was in the fishing industry, actually, and the Supreme Court has now ruled that this Chevron doctrine is out. And so now, if brought to, or brought, cases brought in front of a judge, the judge has the ability to decide whether in this case he can drain the wetland or no, he cannot. And so it's going to be interesting that I think we'll see more and more of these. I mean, this isn't a new one. This guy's been fighting it for 20 years, but this Chevron doctrine has kept him from really being able to do much with it. And now he's got a shot. And if he wins, that sets, obviously, we all know how court cases work and precedents and everything else. You could see a flurry of these. And from my perspective, if you do, that's not great for ducks that are being grown on our side of the Perry Pothole region because farmers want more ground to farm. They don't want little ponds and wetlands created by, this one's created by snow melt. That windbreak, that snowbank deal catches all the snow. And then when it melts off, it drains into this little pond. And this pond probably, given where it is, probably has a chance to hold some ducks in the breeding season. So just another thing to be a little bit concerned about and see how this one plays out.

Yeah. And I'm not really familiar with Swamp Busters as far as how it works on the producers end. But I know it's a government payment and I know just the same as anything else we do, be it CRP or any CIP, CSP, you name it, whatever the project. There's a contract and it's written, what you can and can't do and what the expectations are. And then there's some pretty good size penalty for breaking that contract or being breached that contract. So again, it'll be interesting to see how that shakes out. And the Chevron ruling or overturning of that doctrine is basically saying that these agencies don't have the authority to interpret gray areas in the law. They basically can't write law, like the ATF can't legalize and then ban pistol braces. They didn't have the authority to make that a law. Someone else had to do that. So that's kind of where that's going and how that's all gonna look. Did the NRCS really have the right to identify that as a wetlander or not? It'll be interesting and it has big ramifications for duck hunters.

Yeah, without question. It's some heady stuff, but it's just something that kind of need to be on the radar for everybody.

Yep, well, let's get into the show. Who have we got? You got a pretty cool guest lined up for us today.

Yeah, we've tried a lot of back and forth messages because I get a pretty good kick out of some of his takes.

Yeah, he's shared a bunch of his stories over the last couple of years.

Yeah, for sure. And then, you know, the more you conversate with somebody, you figure out, man, they got a lot of the same thoughts and beliefs on this sport as you and I do. And, you know, it has some experiences that in some different parts of the world that you and I both don't frequent. You know, I've been to Canada once. I've been to Saskatchewan once. I've hunted in the Central Flyway once. So I thought it'd be interesting. A lot of people do know him by his presence on social media because he is a remarkably talented videographer. I guess that would be the right title. He can correct me if I'm wrong. But today on the show, live from Saskatchewan, Canada is Grant Sinclair. So Grant, welcome to the show.

What's going on, guys?

Another day. Getting closer to duck season down here. We just wrapped up our early spec season. So we got to dip our toe in a little bit, but kind of ready for duck season to get upon us.

So did it sound like a war zone?

Yeah, not where I was just because we're kind of insulated from all that. Now, I did talk to a guy that owns it and farms it. This is a farm my dad has leased for 40 plus years, but he was getting three, four phone calls a day. People, I shouldn't say people, outfitters asking if they could come hunt, because the farm holds a lot of speckled bellies.

That's cool.

And he was getting worn out by all the phone calls he was getting. But yeah, I mean, there's a lot of people hunting based on what I've seen and heard, and the geese were so concentrated that they had a lot of success. So I'm glad it's over. I'm glad my feed's not full of pile pictures from dudes with 25, 30 guns.

But I'm surprised there hadn't been a six. I'm surprised there hadn't been 70 or 80 people on a field yet, honestly. You think they just double on it every year?

You think. You think. You think.

We heard numbers of a number of 20 and 30 gun volleys, I felt like. And then, you know, you see the post online, spots available, book your hunt now.

Well, we need more guns. We need more guns Saturday.

Need more buddies to fill out this blind.

Yeah, I don't know how you even get to talk to everyone. The 20, 30 is just a train wreck. I don't even know how you keep that safe, to be honest.

I wouldn't want to do it in a dove field. I sure as heck wouldn't want to do it in a panel blind.

No, you know, I'd rather go cut grass with scissors before I do something like that. I think I'm good. That's what they made lives go for, right? Just go crappie fish. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, why don't you give us a little background on you? Like I said, you're up in Saskatchewan now, but maybe a little background on you, where you're from, where you grew up hunting, and then we'll kind of get into some stuff.

Yeah. So let's see. I'm 31, almost 32. I started duck hunting, I guess, at seven, when I shot my first duck on a farm pond in East Tennessee, and then just kept with it ever since. Grew up hunting Reelfoot mainly, and then some Cheatham draw blinds around Nashville and stuff, but mainly Reelfoot. Went to Canada, I guess, when I was 13 for the first time, and that would have been 07, and then went again in, I guess, what it would have been, four years later, somewhere around then. And then missed a couple of years during college, because I was trying to halfway pay attention to class, and I got my lawn care business working full time. And then I finally, I think I went three years without it, and I was like, all right, I've had enough of this. I think my teachers can deal with me being gone for a week. So I guess, how was it, 2015? I guess I haven't really missed a year since then, besides COVID, the two years. But, and then as far as the filming goes, I think I started that, I guess this would be my eighth year. And that goes back to, I'm trying, they had a shoulder surgery my senior year of high school. And the doctor told me, he's like, hey, no shooting a gun for like four months. And I had surgery in October. I was like, well, that's going to suck. I was like, I don't know if I can do that. And ended up picking up a camera and trying that. And then just kind of stuck with it ever since. But that's kind of how I get to hunt a lot these days, because I certainly can't afford it otherwise. But yeah, I'm trying to think. Losing my train of thought, I'm so tired. But yeah, but basically now I just freelance Canada for like three weeks until, unless someone says otherwise, which they're trying to push for. So I guess we'll see how that goes for next year.

You mentioned college, Grant. Where'd you go to school?

I went to Lipscomb. And I'm trying to think I went, you'll laugh at this, I went, I'm trying to think, six years. And I lack probably 15 hours from graduating. I started that long here business in high school. And then I got to my freshman year of college. And I was like, how am I going to do school on this? So I was taking night classes, trying to schedule the latest class I could, trying to figure out how to do like, Tuesday, Thursday classes, cause I was cutting 50, 60, 70 lawns through college by myself. And it's just all small stuff. But I got to a point, I'm trying to think, and that was other thing. I got to a point like my fifth year. The filming, I had an offer back when Clone Decoys first started. When Ron Latchaw made him, he was like, hey, I'll pay your trip to go film for this. Do you want to do it? And I was like, yeah, I'll do that. And he was more of a friend and stuff. And I was like, yeah, I'll do that. So that's kind of what started it. And then I started chasing more and more of the filming stuff. And I kind of honestly got burned out with school. I was already working full time. And then I was like, oh, well, maybe I can chase this. This filming stuff is more of a way to fill in the winter. And for a couple of years I did. And then I began to see kind of what? I don't know, long-care business stuff. I can separate the personal side of it where it's just business and stuff like that. Where like when you're hunting and filming and stuff, you're sitting in a blind with someone day after day, you get to know them. And I've dealt with the hunting industry and not everyone's like this. But when it comes time to pay, some people are pretty slow on that. So it kind of ruined it for me, just having to chase money and stuff like that. And I was like, you know, I probably ain't gonna back off of this. And just, I don't know, I'm trying not to be too controversial. But I saw the way some of the just the outfitting world acts. And I didn't grow up hunting that way. You know, like I grew up buddy hunting, like that's what that's what my deal was. And the filming was a way to supplement that and stuff and like go hang out for a month or whatever in the winter, because obviously once leaf removal is done, there's nothing else to do. But I don't know, after three or four years, it just you'd bounce around certain places. And it's just like, man, I don't know if I can be a part of that. And they're not all like that. Like there's a couple in South Dakota that don't partake in any of that. But it's funny when you go one place and then you go to the next one, it's funny how you hear stuff. And I don't know, it just there's a lot of, I don't know, childish antics, I guess, is the best way to put it, that it's like, you know, I think I make crappie fish. And thankfully, when the border back opened back up where you didn't have to be vaccinated, finally I could come back here and just hunt with my dad and buddies for three weeks. And that's been the most relaxing, I guess, is that this would be the third fall since they opened. And it's just like, finally, I can come back here and hunt for three weeks and not have to deal with the rest of it.

I guess, yeah, well, that yeah, if anybody follows you on social media, they know where you stand on some of the antics that you see. What was kind of the tipping point that made you say, man, I'm going to start calling some of these dudes out.

That's a good one. I'll be, that'll start it. So yeah, here we go. So back, what was it? I guess this would have been 22. So obviously back before I did open my mouth, I would hear a lot of stuff on the outfitter side. I mean, I still do, but Alberta years ago started, I'm trying to think, and this is coming from guys that have been hunting Canada since, I mean, geez, 70s, 80s before some of these guys ever even were a thought up here. But back then, they were trying to turn it into like the big game deal where you had to use an outfitter to hunt waterfowl. And I think it got shot down obviously, well, two or three years ago, all of a sudden, I'm hearing outfitter guys that used to be friends talk about, oh, yeah, get ready, they're going to ban freelancing. And I was like, man, that's pretty messed up. I mean, because you don't hear freelancers going, oh, you better ban guiding. I mean, so that was three years ago, I guess, two or three. And then Manitoba all of a sudden started a, I'm trying to think, you've got to draw for it now and you only get seven days as a non-resident. And they were trying to cut down on, I think it was like, was it illegal outfitting or something like that, I think is what it was, which everyone screams about. But I talked to a game warden in the field three hours, two days ago. And my dad's prior law enforcement, they were talking their stuff that he knows how it works. And my dad asked me, he goes, so how many cases have you actually worked on illegal outfitting? And the guy sat there, I'm not naming names, but he sat there and he goes, man, he hasn't been doing this 17 years. He goes, I don't know, one or two. And I was like, well, if it's such a problem, then why are there not more cases on it? And he's like, well, it's hard to prove. And I'm like, well, yeah, I get it. It's hard to prove. But at the same time, if it's such a rampant issue, then there would be more cases like DUI's. That's a big problem or drugs. Like you can tell they're knocking cases out left and right on stuff. But this illegal outfitting, what it is, is you have all these quote legal and quote professional, which I mean, you can question that professional part of it with a lot of them. But it's like they're screaming about, oh, well, illegal outfitting. They're using that as a way to limit guys like me. They come for three weeks and hunt with their dad. Like, I've been up here three weeks. I've slept in a week out of those three weeks. I hadn't even hunted. And anyways, I just heard a lot of guys talking about that. And I was like, man, I've seen a lot of stupid stuff in the field as far as alcohol, drug usage, you name it. And it's like, if y'all are so quote professional, why is this going on? And I was like, you know what? I've had enough. And then I had guys make comments like, I had one, I mean, I can go on and on. One said, oh, it's wrong that you and your dad go around Canada blowing up big feeds, just the two of you. I was like, okay, so what? You're supposed to take 10 to 15 guys into a big feed and I'm supposed to go hunt a little small pond? I mean, who's to say what you can and can't hunt like that? I mean, if you're playing by the rules and legal and stuff, doesn't matter what you do. So I heard that. And then I've just seen how they make fun of, I don't know, you just watch them make fun of clients behind their backs in the guide houses. And it's like you were just their best buddy because they were about to hand you a 20% tip or 30% tip. And then you get it in your hand and you go to the guide house. And it's like, why are you trashing them? I mean, so I just saw a lot of that stuff and it's like, man, that's just not, I'm not perfect. I'm far from it. But, you know, if you're going to try and call yourself a professional, at least kind of act like it. But you just don't see it. I don't know. They're not all that way. But what you see on social media and short films and stuff is not always what you know. When that camera comes off, a whole different person comes out. So, and then just like threatening high school kids in local areas where they have them leased up and telling them, hey, you can't hunt around here. It's just like, what? I mean, that's not right. That kid, I mean, you take out the high school kid that wants to waterfowl hunt, where are we going to be in the next 20, 30 years? I mean, as you know, the average client age of what these guys are taking, you've got to have the young group coming in to fill that spot. So, and they're not going to pay an outfit or they don't have the money nor should they be required to do that.

So, yeah, we've had a lot of conversations and Cason, I mean, he is an outfitter.

Oh, yeah.

His model is a little different than most. It's definitely not the turn and burn model, but he's still in that line of work.

Yeah, and there's a place for that. Absolutely.

Sure there is. Sure there is.

Yeah, and I've got to be careful. I play devil's advocate a lot of, oh, well, you're against all outfitting. No, not saying that. But if guys are going to go like this whole Canada thing, I ran into one guy, he's out of Kansas and ran into him on the side of the road this year, and he goes, he goes, well, freelancers blow roosts. I'm like, okay, come on, dude. You're blanketing a whole group of hunters and saying, all freelancers do this or all freelancers are this and that. It's like, well, okay, I can play the other side and I can poke at the stuff I know you guys do. There's bad freelancers, there's bad guys. But to say one group is completely wrong all the time and trying to limit them, that's where it's like, okay, I'm not going to stand for that. There's a place for outfitting, there's a place for freelancing, but trying to tell someone, hey, you can and can't do this, that's kind of where my support ends, I guess.

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Yeah, I think it's a very fine line. We run across that a bunch, like in terms of guides and everything else, and I'll say this, I mean, obviously, I'm going to defend guiding a little bit because I do, but I don't lease, we don't lease anything, we don't hunt on any ground, that's not ours.

So yeah, that's way different.

We're so invested in. We provide an experience to our clients.

Absolutely, absolutely.

And we don't do it six days out of the year. Like, I still like to hunt with my my kids and our guides and our little group. You know, but there's so much. There's so much interest in maximizing that resource and the habitat and building that and having that. But then I look around me, you know, even this past week, like we mentioned the early spec season before we came on here. I look around at three or four different outfitters who are making basically what I feel like is their entire year's income off that early spec season. And they're bragging on social media about how hard they work. So you don't have to.

You didn't work.

You just showed up. You just leased a field that was a half mile from us. You know, we've been doing this for 40 plus years. That's why these birds come here in October. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, I guess I'm devil's advocate a lot of it. Like I do think we provide an experience for the guy who's coming from whatever distance away that wants to go on a hunt and he doesn't want to buy a lease or be that as invested as someone who's here all the time. But on the flip side, there's so many bad actors in the outfitting game. It's just infuriating.

Oh, yeah. And that and let me clear this up. If you guide on land you own, I don't care if you take 500 people or what. Guiding on land you own, you bought that, you paid for it, you put your time and effort into it. Whole different ball game. None of what I and I've talked to guys that own land. They're like, oh, I don't think you're talking about me. And I was like, no, not even close. I mean, that's a whole different, whole different deal. But this, basically, you run into an area two months like Canada, and then you bounce to Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas, and run two months, or wherever, Arkansas, and you're just day leasing stuff. And you can't blame them. Like, I mean, obviously it's legal. But when you're leasing up hundreds of thousands of acres where nobody else can hunt, because the central flyway, I mean, yeah, there's public ground, but it's not, I mean, it's not like the Mississippi River bottoms and stuff, or Arkansas, where you have hundreds of thousands of acres of public land. So, I mean, yeah, they have the right to a certain point. It's like, okay, well, if that's the only person hunting, then where does that leave your locals or your kids to hunt? They first off can't afford it. Second off, they want to do it themselves. So, yeah, that guiding all land you own, that's a whole different ball game. That doesn't even what I say is null at that point.

Well, and I wasn't calling you out because I'm right there with you. Like so much of the activity that I see you talk about, like we live and experience it and it drives me insane. And, you know, there's another aspect that we probably don't talk about as much. And you may not see it like Brent and I do. But even like the subleasing game, you've got guys that will go in and lease up, you know, everything he can get and then flip it and lease it to someone else. And he's just the middleman between the landowner and the, you know, the hunter. And that's, I don't know, that's a shady game as well. We don't let people do that in the real estate game. I don't know why we let it happen.

No, in the hunting world, it just seems like it's, it's almost like anything goes. And it's like, there's got to be a fine line. Like, I hate government control. Can't stand it. But at a certain point, it's like, well, when one group's almost completely controlling a resource, it's almost like a monopoly where you're basically forced to use them. I mean, there's got to be a fine line where your do-it-yourselfers can still have access and the guides can run or whatever. I mean, Montana is a prime example of that. I don't know exactly how the system works, but I mean, there's state land up there or even not state land, but the farmers, I guess they get a tax break. I think someone can correct me on this if I'm wrong. They get a tax break or they get paid or something to where they can put their land. They say they have four quarters of wheat or four quarters of peas or whatever. They can put that land in a program where you sign into a box and you can go hunting. It's first come, first serve, the way I understand it. So it's like, why are states not implementing some program where, because the central flyway, you need that. I mean, because I talked to a lot of girls, they live in Oklahoma and can't even hunt their own state. They're stuck to a duck pond because ex-outfitter is going to a farmer and paying 100, 150 a gun a day. I mean, and what farmer is going to turn that down? None of them. I mean, so it takes out guys where they can't even do it. And then you just, I mean, you see like what you're talking about the Arkansas stuff where it's just running more people and stuff, and they always talk about, oh, it's not about the money, it's not about the piles, and it's like, well, okay, if it's not about the money, if it's not about the piles, why are there more people every time you see a picture? Why are you just posting piles? Because, I mean, I have to be careful what I say, but like the way some of these guys pump it, it's almost like you're putting a price on a duck's head or a goose, like that's borderline market hunting. I mean, if it's not, if not, it is. I mean, yes, That's how I see it.

The same as what you're saying right there. I mean, like that's all you post. That's all you put out there is your results in the field. Then that's what you're selling. You're selling how you come here, kill birds. I get it. There's a world of people that book a trip because they're going to kill. Oh, absolutely. They don't understand. That's where we try to separate ourselves and what we do. Yeah, we want to kill ducks. We're all hunters, but you're coming for the experience. That's what I enjoy about a duck hunt. Yeah, I love to pull the trigger. Oh, excuse me. Love to pull the trigger. Love all that, but it's the whole thing, man. It's the lodge, coffee, hanging out with your friends. From start to finish, it's the whole thing. But yeah, I see your point. It looks just like market hunting. You're just selling them.

Exactly, because I mean, I helped a guy out on Reelfoot back on Christmas break. I've heard those conversations like I did it for two or three weeks. And the first question when you would hear someone ask, first question they asked, well, how many of y'all been killing? I mean, if they cared about and not all clients are like this, but like most of them, when you like you said, if you're just pumping the piles, it's like, well, how many are you killing? It's all they care about.

So right.

And that's really who you market yourself to. I mean, exactly.

And it's like, well, what, how is that different from back when they were market hunting? And I don't know what a duck went for back then, but just say someone's charging, I don't know, 600 bucks a day and you can shoot six ducks. Well, you're technically saying that duck sells for 100, 100 a piece in a way.

I mean, if my math is right, but Brent may want to come back and edit this, but I mean, he showed me, talked about some messages last week with somebody who was justifying $100,000 leases with spec hunts. I'm like, well.

Oh, good, Curtis.

If you can't afford it, don't lease it. I mean.

That's insane. That's my math, that's way out of my league. Like I said, I'll be crappie fishing before something like that happens.

Yeah, and down here, Cason and I have this conversation all the time, our duck hunting in Arkansas, our duck hunting outfitting world has leveled, levelized. Now, but prior to them banning guides on the state WMAs and some of the other stuff that's going on, it was nuts and things were being abused, but ducks have kind of settled. Currently, it's the speckle belly deal that's gone nutty. At the premise of all this is very similar to what you see in Saskatchewan, very similar to what you see in Oklahoma, Kansas. The ability to day rent a field or a feed or whatever, is allowing this to be overly commercialized.

Oh, it's way over commercialized, way over.

Yeah. We went to the two goose limit, which the outfitters actually like here because they can almost guarantee a limit unless things get tough. I mean, and they can get out of the field faster, which was part of the intent behind us dropping it, self-imposing a two bird limit when the Mississippi Flyways said we'd kill three. But what it's done is, which is in converse of that a little bit, now they think to justify putting out all these decoys and doing all this scouting, we got to have 25 dudes in the blind to make it worth our time. And they'll do it. If they can find 25 people to show up, they'll do it. And so it gets back to what you're talking about. This is more about the money and the ego stroke of, man, we killed a limit today. But then, I mean, you could go a long ways with this. And then you look at the pile and the pile is all year of birds. Is that really an ego stroke? I mean, I've been speckled with a hunt for 15 years now. Like seriously, not just like pick it up and, hey, we kind of shoot one over our duck decoys. I mean, really chasing them. And I mean, those year of birds, they're dumb.

Oh, I mean, and that's the thing up here. It's kind of similar to the Arkansas deal where they keep running more people. Like when I first started coming to Canada, I guess would have been 07. My dad was 06 a year prior. I mean, these outfitters, they're, I mean, I'm trying to think in the area I hunt, I think there was one guy running like, I don't know, four or five clients. I mean, and maybe five groups of those and you would rarely, I mean, you rarely would even see him. Whereas what's changed since like 20, I don't know, 15 or 16 is kind of when it seems to take off is like these outfitters up here, most of them are Americans, not all of them, but they used to only run one group and I guess they were hunting twice a day. But even if they did, they'd probably shoot a lemon or whatever or get close in the morning just to go traffic something or hunt a pond that afternoon. Well, what's happening now is they're called super camps. So they're running a minimum of two groups a day, twice a day. I mean, there's one group out of Battleford running six groups a day. So just them alone, that's 12 fields a day. And then like the new area, I said the area I meant, three of them moved in this year. I mean, there was one dude, I would see their trucks, four of them in the afternoon scouting, locking fields up for four days straight. And half the time you drive by the field, they're not even hunting it. And I would look at it and I'm just like, well, there's a field someone could have hunted, but no, you're running three groups. You're trying to hunt six fields a day. So you got four guys out scouting that have probably locked up 10 or 12 feeds minimum. You don't even know which one to hunt. And I thought, I've noticed this year, I never used to get asked this question. And obviously the outfitters are gonna play the other side. But I have had more farmers ask me and my buddies this year, hey, are you outfitting? First question when you roll up that is out of their mouth. Before you can say anything and they go, are you outfitting? I'm like, no. And they're like, good, we don't let them hunt. I was like, glad, I'm glad to hear that. Because they're like, well, they'll lock a field up, they'll never show. Most of these farmers up here, they want someone hunting their field. They want it for everyone. It's a whole different mindset. On top of it's illegal to get paid. Which I mean, outfitters are getting around that. I mean, who pays to park their truck in a field up here? You know what's going on. So it's like, but back then, you never used to see that. Whereas now when they're burning, I mean, you can go to certain areas. There may be five or 10 outfitters running. So the amount of pressures just, and with the lack of water, everything's confined. Whereas you go back to when I was up here in 06, 07, and I mean, up to 20, probably 15, 16, there was water everywhere. I never used to scout 10 minutes from where I stayed, ever. I mean, duck feeds were everywhere, snows were everywhere. Whereas now, it's like you have more guys running more clients, more feeds a day. Well, you can't sustain that to a certain point. So it's kind of like the Arkansas deal. You just see more clients, I mean, more groups, and it's like at a certain point, okay, well, what are you going to do? I mean, that's why they're trying to push freelancers out. They scream the illegal outfitting. Well, it's like, if you limit a guy to a week, I drive from Tennessee, I'm not coming. I guess I can fly. But you push the freelancers out, okay, well, think how many more feeds that is for an outfitter to hunt on. I mean, that's essentially their goal of this, is to take other people out as, quote, competition.

Right. I mean, is that the biggest change you've seen? Because we had the episode a couple of weeks ago and there's X number of outfitting licenses, if that's what you want to call them out. They call them something else, but in an area, and it varies depending on the area. Is that the biggest shift you've seen? You got the same number of outfitters in these areas, but these outfitters are running more groups than just one outfit or one group.

Yeah, it's that. Then some of those licenses used to be inactive essentially. What you may have, I have to watch how I explain it because I'm not the best at it. But the way I've had to explain is you may have one guy that has, like they have a big game license, but there's a waterfowl deal attached to that. Well, they may only run big game. They didn't even use the waterfowl. Well, now that the waterfowl license is so expensive. I mean, I talked to one guy. He's like 70 or 80 years old. I think I ran into him, I don't know, five, six years ago. We got to talk. He's like, oh yeah, he's like, I used to, because I used to guide and I was like, oh, that's cool. I said, what did you pay for your allocations back then? He's like, I don't know, like 500 bucks. I was like, well, man, you made some money. I mean, because you got allocations going for, I don't know, 30,000 to 60,000, 80,000 now.

I've heard 50, 50 is about the average.

That's about the average. I mean, you had a lot of licenses sitting inactive essentially, or they may have only run some on the weekend where it's not a problem. Whereas now you've got every Trust Fund kid from the states that's like, oh, man, I can go spend 50 grand on this and open up an outfit. I mean, crap, when you're charging 1,000 to 1,500 a day per person, you're not leasing fields. The money they're making up here is stupid. They can say they're not making money, which I mean, the guides technically are not because they're getting paid 200, 300 bucks a day plus tips, burden their own truck. Those kids aren't making money. The outfit or owner, they're making hand over fist. It's obvious they want to be up here. That's why it's like, okay, when they get rid of the freelancers, well, they'll just open up another camp and then instead of running two groups or three, well, they may try to run seven or eight. I mean, that's their goal essentially is the way I see it.

Well, that's a big concern. We've had Lee Jost on the show several times and he is adamant when there's no more opportunity for the DIY guy, this sport's over. It is over.

It absolutely is because when I came up at 13, my dad didn't have the money to pay 1,500 a person for him and me plus a 20% tip plus license, I mean, an airfare. I mean, you're talking one guy coming up here, he's paying, I mean, so if you're 1,000 a day, that's three grand plus 20% tip, you're what, 3,600. I mean, your airfare is 1,000 bucks. I mean, they're paying $5,000. I can hunt and do it myself. I mean, for way less than that and hunt way longer. But if you take out the guys like my dad, why would I have never come up here? So my love for hunting could have been just nixed like that because I wouldn't have been able to see it. So you've got to have room where not one group is just constantly controlling something and only taking, I mean, not knocking that group, but like most of their clients are 40 to and up. They're only hunting three days, but there's a lot of guys. They just want to go do it themselves and go for two or three weeks. There shouldn't be anything wrong with that.

But. Yeah.

Do you see, do you see Saskatchewan getting in line with what Manitoba and Alberta even has some, some restrictions now? Oh, I'm sure it is. They can't be far behind.

No, I've already seen the PDF file on it. And one recommendation and I mean, the game warden told me, he said, he goes, the only way you can combat this is, he goes, your best bet is to join the Saskatchewan Wildlife Federation. He goes, there's like a 100,000 members, I think is what he said. And he goes, they have a lobby group. And that, that's another point. So the Saskatchewan deal in Alberta, they have an Outfitter Commission. So Saskatchewan has the SCPO, which is their, what is it? Saskatchewan Commission of Professional Outfitters, I think, which, like I said, professional, that's debatable because you've got some Outfitters that have their guides driving crippled specs on their trucks. I mean, I've seen one this year that was kicking a crane, trying to act like he's in the NFL instead of just shooting it. I mean, I've seen another Outfitter that was singing with a dead duck in his truck, holding it up like he's on American Idol. And it's like, dude, those videos get out. It makes the rest of us that are trying to do it right look like idiots. I mean, no wonder hunters are just looked at as like rednecks. I mean, but, but yeah, it's I'm trying to think what I was getting on was the question.

Again, I'm getting, well, we're talking about is, is, is Saskatchewan on?

Oh, yeah.

Are they on the heels of the other two?

Yeah, they're not far behind. No, it's, I guarantee you next year, I bet there's a, I don't know this for sure, but I'm sure it'll be some week long or two week deal at best or a 10 day license. And I mean, at that point, yeah, I'll probably go for 10 days. But if they made it a five day or seven day, I mean, forget it. I guess I'll just be cutting grass next year and trying to be a responsible adult for once.

Where's the fun in that?

Yeah, I know. I like coming up here. Like you make friends. I've got buddies I've known for, I don't know, 10 years up here. And the only time they hunt when you're up here and it's like, it's fun. They hunt on their off days on the weekend. And I mean, talking to the farmers like no offense, but I like the scouting. I like the quote work. I know these, these guys talk about, oh, it's so hard getting up at 4 a.m. It's so hard setting 100 full bodies. It's like, dude, I do it with my dad and I enjoy it. I go out there by myself and do it. I'll wheel my dad in a wheelchair to do this. And I'll gladly spend the money to do it where it's like, that quote work, that's the fun part. The shooting, yeah, obviously I like to shoot, but that's not why I and a ton of other guys do it. They don't want to pay some 18 to 30 year old man that's basically high on weed constantly to yell at him the whole hunt. I mean, it's like, I'd rather do it myself. I don't need them essentially, I guess.

Yeah, I get it. I mean, I feel the same. Like if I can't build it or play a role in producing it, it doesn't interest me a lot. And I'm with you, it's all the effort, everything that goes into it that makes it fun.

I mean, that's the fun part. Back when I was hunting Reelfoot, brushing blinds. I mean, throwing decoys out, cooking in the blind, like being able to call the shot and stuff and swapping out with your buddies on that and calling and stuff like hitting your duck call and watching the duck turn. That's the coolest part. Not to me, like when I'm filming, like, yeah, it's nice to just show up, but I'll still help set decoys. I'll still go out and drive and stuff and look for birds. Like, I don't want to just be able to, but I mean, obviously, as you get older, I get that, it changes and stuff. But to me, if I'm just going to show up and literally someone looks at me and go, hey, sit in that chair there, shoot when I say shoot, that doesn't appeal to me. I'll just go shoot clay targets. I mean, I don't care to do that. And for the majority of hunters, most guys want to do it themselves and have access to ground that they're not having to use an outfit or four.

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Well, so I guess I'll maybe change subject a little bit from Canada. But I'm curious just from watching your stories and your posts, you're pretty opinionated about the outdoor industry and maybe the direction it's going, particularly as it uses social media.

Oh, big time.

So, Brent and R as well. So, I don't know how we dive into it. I mean, talk a little bit about influencers and maybe you talk about the timing in Canada and how everything has shifted to guides and more people going. And I think that's kind of a direct correlation with social media. People are seeing those hunts, they're seeing those piles and now more people are experiencing stuff like that. So, yeah, what, why are influencers good or bad for the sport? And what's your logic behind it?

It depends on which ones you're watching. I mean, some of them act like hood rats, honestly. I mean, that's what I equate them to. Like, I mean, when I'm hunting, I'm usually happy. I mean, but you've got guys now where it's. They're acting like they just came out of the Section 8 drug deal and they've got a hoodie up there. They're mean mugging the pile picture with rap music. And it's like, dude, you didn't just do a drive by. You went hunting. You're hunting a bird with a pea-sized brain. This stuff is not difficult. It's seabird, go to find the birds and stuff and go shoot the bird. It's not hard. But man, you watch some of these people and it's just like, dude, what are you trying to push? Like, you're just, as I call it, you're just pandering the rednecks. I mean, like dancing behind piles of birds just looks stupid. It's borderline disrespectful. I get having fun. But I mean, when you shoot a limit and you're over there doing the gritty walk or whatever they call it, you look like a freaking 10-year-old kid that plays Fortnite. It's like, dude, grow up a little bit, have fun, but I mean, if the average person that doesn't hunt, when they see that stuff, they just look at you and go, man, you're an idiot. You have those people that I'm trying to think. If they're on the fringe of hunting, they may not really care about it. They're like, oh yeah, let them hunt. Well, if they see enough dumb stuff going on, they're going to be like, you know what? You guys ruined it for yourself. If it ever came to a vote, you're not respectful on what you're doing and how you're behaving. What you post on social media, you have to watch it because it'll get out to your average non-hunter. Like I've said before, I've always said, everyone used to think PETA is the one that's going to take hunting rights away, and it's like the more you see guys acting like this and other, you've got other hunting companies now promoting stuff that it's like, hunters are just going to be the downfall of themselves from either trying to limit other hunters or acting like thugs on social media. I mean, I get the videos and stuff like, yeah, the music sounds better, but use the beat. But when you've got a video that's talking about robbing a 7-Eleven with a duck getting shot, that doesn't add up. I mean, or going to the strip club, none of that adds up or you see influencers that, I'm all about sharing your faith. I think that's awesome. We need more of that. Do that. But if you're going to share your faith, do it, but don't have three posts later where you're talking about doing drugs or drinking or a song that's talking about that or something. Try to halfway live it because the guys I know, trying to live right are not putting one thing on social media and then living a different way off of it, I guess. Their actions match up with their words, whereas what you see a lot of the hunting industry, none of their actions match up with their words at all to me. Again, I'm not perfect, but you just see a lot of stuff where if I had acted the way you see influence are acting now, if I had done that at Reelfoot, my blind would have gotten burned, my tires would have gotten torched and flashed. I mean, you couldn't act like that back 10, 15 years ago where if you try and do that now, it's like, I guess it's the normal stuff. Maybe, I don't know, I'm only 31 and it's, I don't know, I feel like a 70-year-old sometimes watching them like, man, this doesn't add up, this is stupid.

Well, I think that's way it comes across when Cason and I do it. I mean, I'm 54. I'm long past the rap music playing over my videos that I post on social media. It comes off like, well, that guy didn't get it anyway. But I do get it because I have sons that are in their mid-20s, ones in his later 20s. I'm around it and see how different the mindset is, but I do think it's interesting. You are 30, you're right in that wheelhouse of what's supposed to think that is, man, that's hunting, that's duck hunting, and is filming all this stuff, and laying rap music trap, and nothing against rap music, like it is fine.

But I've listened to rap music, I've listened to it, but it's like.

Yeah. But I'm the same. What sticks in my car a little bit with the industry, is you kind of see some of these brands taking advantage of this trying to be cool factor of the way duck hunting is portrayed on social media right now. And it's so far away from the traditions, the history, the resource itself, giving back to that resource. It gets into this whole investor consumer conversation that we've had on here lots of times before. We've got a lot of companies in the business now, they're just taken. They're just taken out of the duck hunting community. And I don't know that a whole lot is being given back. And that's what rubs me wrong. And really is showcasing some of the things that they put out there. I mean, I sent a video around to a different group that Cason are on as a post I saw. And it was, I don't know how detailed I want to go, but it is a company in the waterfowl industry. And they showed, and it had to be in Canada, maybe in the Dakotas. Super close range, pintail, basically hovering on the spinner and completely annihilated. And that's a brand. And I get it. They were promoting what their particular tool, so to speak, does. But you could take a kids 410 single shot savage and do what they did to that duck at that closer range. So it didn't have anything to do with their product. But they had to show it. And I'm like, and it gets back, it kind of ties into what you were saying. It's not going to be PETA that takes us down. It's going to be ourselves. For a company to post that and think that's what we need to represent our company as. And I get it. There's some people get off on that and love seeing ducks explode in a fireball over German speed metal music.

I get all that.

But I mean, you got to watch it these days.

I mean, it's just that's the spread. That's not it. That's not it.

But there was another video kind of what you're talking about. Like they were this is another one of the rap crowd. They were talking about shooting teal at 60 yards with TSS. It's like, dude, that's all that. Well, like who cares to do that? I mean, I don't even like filming hunts where you're having to belly shoot them. I'll do it all day long on a no win day when snow geese are hovering at 30, 40. Like I get it. That's no win hunts. But when you're talking teal trying to shoot them at 60 yards, it's like, okay, well, what's next? You're going to try and get a rifle round that you can shoot them at 200? I mean, the art of duck hunting is ideally trying to decoy them. That's what it's all about. I don't care. I mean, tree-topping ducks and the timber. I mean, who cares to do that?

Well, I guess that's what I'm getting at. I'm not trying to sit here and judge somebody right or wrong and how they- Oh, yeah. Every place is different. You got different styles. What's your capable of doing? All that. I get it. I'm not saying they're right, I'm wrong, or vice versa. What I am saying is we have created a seismic difference in the traditions of what this sport is. We've lost it over this obsession with all of these things to be cool, for lack of a better word, to represent yourself a way. And we've kind of lost our way in what your dad and how he grew up hunting. And I'm not saying they did everything right back then either. But they didn't have the same disrespect for the sport or the resource as it seems to be where we are right now.

No. And you can't continue on a track like that. Because it's almost like this has happened in the last, I don't know, five, seven years. It's like, well, what's it going to be in the next seven or eight years? Like, what's the next attention seeking thing that people are going to be trying then? I mean, it's like, it's always a, I don't know, like a downhill slope. It's like, just keeps going faster and faster. I don't know, it doesn't, I didn't grow up hunting that way at all. Then, and then I just don't understand what is happening to this industry, I guess. I mean, and thankfully, I don't think it's all hunters. I think social media just, like you see that on social media, but there's also a lot of hunters too that don't pay attention to it. They don't even watch Instagram, Facebook, thankfully, that's still, like there's a group of hunters, probably a lot of them that, that don't watch that train wreck, essentially, because now it's like you said, who's trying to be the coolest, and it's like, dude, your number of followers does not define you, it doesn't mean anything. I mean, a lot of these guys bought their followers first off to look cool, or they unfollow and follow people to get them to follow them back. Then even like my account, half of them live in Iraq and Afghanistan. You can look at any of these hunting companies' pages, go look at their followers. You can't define that or define someone's worth off of, or make them seem like, what's the way to put it? Like the influencer crowd, people think, oh, they have a lot of followers, they must know more or something. It's like not even close. I mean, jeez, the huntress crowd, they could have 200,000 followers or whatever. They may have hunted a year just because they throw pictures up of themselves. That's the only reason they're getting followed. I mean, I got to be careful what I say.

You got to choose your words carefully.

Yeah. I've got to watch what I'm doing, but it's like these hunting companies use these people that it's like, why are you using them? They don't, obviously, I'm not saying I know everything. I'm far from it. But you're clearly using people that are pushing an image that doesn't really need to be pushed. Not for hunting, like have a little bit of respect. I mean, because what you see nowadays, it's just like, dang. You obviously don't respect yourself doing that.

Yeah. It's definitely a vanity metric. You may be right. It may be inversely related to actual knowledge of the sport or what you're doing. But you guys were on a good conversation there about us being our own worst enemy. I mean, I got into a conversation one time. Both these guys have been guest on the show. This was before we started the show. But we were talking about impact shots, like kill shots and the use on social media. And both the guys, they weren't hardcore about it, but they were defending it and saying, well, we shouldn't back up from who we are. We do kill stuff. I'm like, yeah, we do. But why do we want to put that out there? We know we do it, but that's not why we do it. And what does it stand to gain us by posting that? Nothing. It's just attention seeking.

And I've been guilty of that back when I used to post. I would post some slow motion kill shots. I mean, and I've kind of quit doing it now. I try not. I mean, obviously some of the hunting videos I do, but I've steered away from it. It's like, you know, that's really not right. I shouldn't post that or don't post the slow motion part of it or don't post the ones where. I mean, I saw one guy one time, geez, they were spring snowgoose hunting, and they shot a snow belly shot at like 40 yards. And then they literally just keep shooting it on the way down. And like ten guys just keep emptying their mags. I'm like, dude, you're shooting it like a pillow. The first shot killed it. You folded it. It's like at a certain point, like you're just treating it like have some respect, like, yes, you're killing it. I get that. But you don't need to keep shooting it 20 times or like, and like you're saying, like posting stuff people don't need to see, like the cranes and stuff. Like, why are we going around and kicking them? Like you're on NFL Sunday or why are we going around with baseball bats with pictures? Like you and I know that goes on. But does that really need to be shown? Like, no. I mean, is a baseball bat hitting it in the head ethical? Probably so. But it's just as easily not to show that or just go get a shotgun so you don't have to run a bird down, shoot it at 40 yards away or 30 and kill it. So you're not chasing a crippled bird running 200 yards. I mean, because half the time they're doing it just to show off for clients, I think, and get them laughing. It's partly. It's 100 percent is. I mean, because what I'm doing when I see a crippled bird out, I'm going to shoot it because I'm not in shape enough to run after it first off. It's like it's the most ethical thing to do. I mean, you got to be ethical and stuff.

I'm trying to think. Brent, I don't know if we were talking about that with Rob or who, but we talked about this recently with snow geese that because of the conservation order, because we were sold that they were destroying the tundra, because there's been this all out war on snow geese, we've lured ourselves into this area where it's okay to abuse them. I mean, they're just snow geese, but that's how people treat them. And we've pushed that narrative for so many years now that it's really socially accepted.

Yeah, I mean, the sky carp moniker is carried over to it. Yeah. I mean, they're treated like carp to fishermen. So yeah, we just gotta be really careful of how we present ourselves. And we've had this discussion off-line a ton in some circles, but social media in no way should be a mentor to somebody getting in this sport. And sadly, it is. And because I see it, I see it around my son's peers. And here are conversations that they have. And I'm like, you guys are getting... Everything you know or feel about Duck County is coming from what you see on social media. And it hurts. It hurts. Because that's not the way we grew up, because social media didn't exist. And we, and even, maybe it's for some people that did grow up with it, we're in an influential age. They still had somebody around them, kind of guiding them through this sport and showing them that there's some guardrails to this thing. And then you got this whole other piece. And like you said, it's probably a smaller audience than what we really think. But just like everything else, it's amplified because of social media. And those guardrails don't exist for some of these guys. And that's what really kind of scares you. How does that infiltrate a bigger network? And does it continue to send this sport on the downhill slide that you're talking about as far as how we're going about some things?

Well, you know, Brent, I think we see it all the time in comments. We'll post something on our social page. And people, you'll see it all the time. Like, oh, you know, social media is no mentor of mine. You know, I'm not, you know, and I get it. I wouldn't say that it is mine either. But to your point just there, you see it. It is infiltrating what you're observing, whether you look up to it or not. And if you're, maybe if you're younger and it's what you see the majority of, it's having some impact, whether you recognize it or not, because you're seeing it and you observe it as if it's the norm. And I would hope that it's not, surely it can't be, but it's prominent on social media.

It's playing a role in there somewhere. At some level, the danger is how much. Because you're going to pick up, you might pick up some educational out of it. Oh, man, this is how they set up their decoys or this is how they work those ducks. This is how they call, that doesn't sound like anything like we do it. So that part of it's great. Maybe you can learn all kinds of things, but then you kind of wander into these gray areas or even really dark areas that you're just worried for where that's going to go. And somehow we got to cut that off.

When's the last time you saw something instructional or informational on social media? I bet you 10 to 1 you saw more make them pay rent or grind on them or crap like that.

Oh yeah.

For sure.

Oh, big time. I'm not naming names, but there is, I don't know, I don't want to drag them into it, but they're an outfitter that owns their own land in Southeast Missouri. They actually do a good job of being instructional and showing different stuff like that. But yes, overall, no, it's like, why are you trying to make a bird pay rent? Why are you that mad at them?

It's like, what do they owe you?

It's like, what have they done, man? I had a bird crap. I was filming one time and I had a snow goose crap on my camera and it went in my eye. I still didn't feel like I needed to go kill 500 of them that day. I was just like, well, this sucks. But it's like, why are you mad at a bird? I mean, it's like, can you take another issues out on an animal or what? It's like, come on, guys.

I think it's just a backwards mindset. As a landowner and someone who works to better everything on the land side as a steward, the opposite is true. We owe them. That's why we're pouring so much into it. Not the other way around.

But I don't know. Yeah. You put all that out there. You put that habitat out there for them. Why are you going to punish them? You were trying to draw them there. You're trying to feed them. Does it make any sense?

It would be a lot cheaper just to ignore them and not do anything. Then they wouldn't have to pay me anything. Yeah.

Just till it under. Just till it all under and make it dirt.

Yeah.

Good grief. You know, talking about instructional, I need to film that. I should have started a while ago. There are some fields around us that got burned early on. I get calls, questions all the time about burning rice fields. Usually, I tell people to release it. So, man, if you can keep your farmer from doing it, you should do it. This is a great example. This particular field, I pass it every day. It got burned and then it got worked and then it rained on. Now, it's green. All the waste grain that survived all that has germinated. There's absolutely nothing left in it. There's like six blinds drug out there. I guess somebody has leased it and they're going to line up the whole outside perimeter and hunt the whole dang thing. I'm like, I feel bad for the person that's paying for that, but they don't know. They hadn't been there to see it. They have no idea what's going on, but they're getting just absolutely taking advantage of.

Oh, there's a lot of guard holding going on. You see these places that that, you know, full and well, you see the post on. I don't know, what is it? Duck hunting guides and leases or snow goose migration. You see these guys leasing these spots and you're just like, dude, if it was a good spot, first off, it wouldn't be on the internet. And like, you know, as good as I do, the good spots, you're not going to, I mean, maybe you get lucky. I'm not saying it hasn't happened, but if it's being posted, there's a reason it's being posted because you're taking advantage of someone in East Tennessee, Georgia that can't go over there. They don't know the area. And they think shooting 50 to 100 birds in a pit, the whole season is good because they're used to shooting three wood ducks wherever else they're at. It's like, no, that spot sucks. It should just remain a rest area or something, or not even, shouldn't even be a spot, but it's like, no, how can I?

Yeah, it's stuff like that that comes to mind to me when we do talk about guides and outfitters. And, you know, I blame a lot of guides and outfitters too, but that's a commercial side of the sport that I don't think really gets as much airplay when we're throwing blame around. But I mean, it's ridiculous. Some of those practices.

Yeah. I got a good one. I forgot about this one. Okay. So speaking of that kind of like bad spots and stuff. Well, the other side you see is like, I'm not saying it always goes on, but like if you have guys coming in for three days and they have a good hunt the first day or whatever, I can about guarantee you they're not going to a good spot the next day. They're going to traffic birds, they're going to hunt a pond, they're going to hunt and it's like they're not getting the best option every day and stuff like that. It's like, well, crap, if I'm buddy hunting, you're going to the best option every day or the best that you can find where you see some of these other places that you know they have good spots, but they're trying to make sure everyone has, and I guess they think it's a good idea. So at least, well, at least they got one good hunt. But it's like, if you're buddy hunting, you're going to the best option. Whereas these guys coming in, if they have a good hunt one day, they're not getting on an X the next day or something like that. I'm not saying they're all doing it, but it's like, is that right? Like, you would think if you're putting some, you're charging whatever a day, you would think they would be going to the best spot, not trying to quote, manage birds, I guess, when you know there's other options or like clients that tip better, get the better spot. I don't know, this doesn't seem right to me. Maybe that's not right, but it just seems.

That's why we don't mix groups. Like we take one at a time, then you don't have any of that crap. Then people don't get feelings hurt and don't ever wonder what's going on. It's just, anyway, let's help.

I've had them ask that. Being the camera guy, you'll have guys ask you because you're, I don't know. Every time I'm a camera guy, I always feel like I'm playing middleman between clients, guides, outfitters, whatever it is, and you'll have clients are like, oh, there are a lot of birds in here and I don't always see the spots. I don't know. Or they'll ask you, oh, you think this is going to be a good hunt? I don't know. I can be too blunt sometimes. If I've seen birds not working, I just walk out of the field and I'm not sitting here, the rest of the hunt, the film birds, just whatever. It's no win, screw this. But yeah, you'll have clients ask you, they're like, oh, is this a good spot? I mean, there's sometimes where you're like, no, it sucks. You shouldn't be here. I'm not like, no, the spot blows, but whatever.

Well, since you're in Saskatchewan, you've been there for three weeks, and we're huddling closer to our duck season. Why don't we talk a little bit about what you saw, why you've been up there, and not only from a population standpoint, maybe if you can even speak to, I mean, you feel like you're shooting younger birds, seeing a lot of adult birds, how they act in, and then maybe too just touching on habitat. Because the guests we've had on previously that have been up there here lately, it was awful dry.

Yeah, it's still dry. So certain areas, I mean, I'm not going to get into exactly where I'm at, but basically Saskatoon and north of that, but it's extremely dry. I'm trying to think, I will say I've seen more ducks this year than the last two years combined. I would say in the last two years, when I've hunted for three weeks out of six weeks in the last two seasons, I saw one duck feed at 10,000 or 5,000. Whereas that used to be, I mean, that was nothing. I mean, you go back, that was every five miles. But this year, I will say there are more ducks. It does look like there's some young ones in it. But as far as the water and stuff, I mean, obviously, your big lakes are fine. But what throws this off a lot too is, is like if you go on Google Maps, you're looking at those, you don't know when the picture was actually taken. But a lot of those potholes, some of them are alkalized, so they don't really serve a purpose. I mean, maybe they hatch on those. I don't know. That'd be another, that'd be a biologist question. But I mean, it's dry. I would say, I mean, I could take videos of it.

I bet 80 percent of your potholes are gone.

I mean, it's not back when you would go in 06, 07. I think there was, I'm trying to think the flood. I think they said they had a 100-year flood in 2000, somewhere around 9, 10, 11. You can go through, if you get bored, go to Google Maps and just type on street pictures and just find some highway or whatever where they went through it. You can see a street view next to the lake and you can literally like there's a junction I eat at every day, there's a slough at it. I bet that slough used to be, I'm not good at judging acres, but just say the slough used to be 40 acres or something. I mean, it was a huge snow goose roost, ducks would get on it. It's almost down to probably an acre now, two acres and hardly anything uses it. So, I don't know, but I would say, I mean, the ducks definitely look way better than they have. I mean, it's still not ideal, but they're actually huntable, at least in the area I'm at. But every, I mean, every area is different. You could go two hours north of me, whole different story. You could go southeastern Saskatchewan or southwestern. It all varies. And I mean, you could drive 30 minutes and there's, I mean, even where I'm at right now, I drive 30 minutes north and I'm in the water everywhere. If I stay where I'm at, there's hardly any water and if I go south, it's even worse. So, but I did try to think the locals told me they got, I think it was 14 inches, I think in the spring of rain. And they did say most of the potholes filled up, but they burned up and around like, I don't know, June or so. It just got hot and they didn't get any rain after that. But I mean, if you can get one good year of rain, I mean, I talked to one guy that's been guiding here for 40 years, he sold out, he's done. He said the year, he goes, basically, as soon as the water comes back in the spring, he goes, your ducks will have a good hatch. So I mean, it won't take much if it'll actually rain and hold them because whatever they got this year, way bigger difference than I've seen. Like you might actually get a push of ducks out of Canada this year or at least this gap long.

That's interesting. I hope that's the case for sure. But I think it's interesting. His take was, if it rains again, ducks will bounce back, which they will. The trick is, how many of those wetlands are going to be there and available for them to get us back to this kind of the old goal of 10 million Mallards. I think that's the trick. Because we've talked about in the show, we've seen the conversion of these former wetlands into now ag. Are they going to be there the next time it really rains? Because it'll happen again. That's in all the tiling and everything else. That's kind of the concern.

Oh, no doubt. They are burning sloughs. Don't get me wrong, I see them burning sloughs, but at least where I'm at, those wetlands are still there. You see them, maybe there's cattle grazing on it right now, but I don't see them, yes, they're disking some, but it doesn't look like they're taking out just thousands of them. Because the way I take it, they're still wet. I think if they took a tractor through them right now, you're probably going to sink it still. Then the way one buddy of mine told me, he goes, any slew you see, he goes, the snow melts and stuff, he goes, they're still going to have 6 to 8 inches in the spring, he goes, so they can't really ever seed it. So I guess they're not trying to actively reclaim all of them. So, I mean, there's, but there are areas, I mean, there's wild to see, like there's a place I hunted that flooded back whenever it did. And from Google Maps, you would think it's a lake. And I was talking to a local, I was like, yeah, so what's that lake called up there? And he goes, oh, that's not a lake. He goes, that's where it flooded. So, I hunted it back in, what was it, 22, I think. Maybe it was 19, it was 19 or 22. Hunted it back then, and then I came three or four years later, went down to the same area, and I'm talking like massive area. I don't, like, I bet 60 to 100 quarters were underwater or something back then. Completely farming now, and none of that's water. So something like that, that definitely is. But as long, like, a lot of these tiny potholes and stuff, they're still around. I mean, if you look on Google Maps, whatever potholes you see are probably still there for the most part. As long as, as long as they can at least get some rain to keep them where they're not, where they're not able to farm them.

Well, Grant, I'm going to throw this out there and try to catch you before you think too much about it. That's how we wrap most of our shows. But I've been intrigued by everything you've said today and clearly Brent and I align with the majority of it as well. But if you could change one thing about duck hunting, what would it be?

Oh man. I'm trying to think. I don't know if I could change one thing. Maybe I'll kind of do like one and a half. Stop this thug lifestyle that everyone's pushing and then figure a way out to where you're doing it yourself or still have plenty of access. Then somehow you can still guide and everyone, I mean this is a fairy tale land, but somehow it just work. Kind of like, I don't know, keep the system the way it is at least, and at least in Canada because it's working fine. But I mean, if there was one thing to change, I mean the central flyway needs some regulation. Like I said, I hate government control, but what you see going on out there, that ain't it. I mean, when you see local kids that are forced to work for outfitters because they can't hunt otherwise, basically by guys that don't even live in that state, I mean, that's not it. I don't know, that just doesn't seem right. And then bring back cold weather again so ducks migrate, I guess. I mean, I don't know. Maybe not right now, not because I'm up here, but I mean, if we could get back to weekly cold fronts and not one major cold front at Christmas, and get back to where you get freezes and thaws again, I'd be all for that. But I don't know. There's a laundry list of stuff, but the central flyway, whatever's happening out there, that's not what needs to be happening, in my opinion.

Yeah, yeah. We've had some conversations with some guests on that too. Maybe we'll come back around to that one next time. But yeah, I think we'll all take that cold weather, more consistent blasts of it, because we saw what the one and only cold front we got last year did, and that was not much as far as ducks moving.

No, I remember back hunting Reelfoot. I mean, jeez, you get those freeze-ups and thaws where the lake would get, I don't know, two inches of ice, your open water blinds would kill right before they all leave, and then you get a thaw, but you would get them consistently. I mean, like where the Arkansas rice fields would freeze up, they'd push the Reelfoot or whatever, then the guys on the river could go kill them. But now, it's like you talk to my buddies at Hunter and it's like, I'm like, man, it's 60 degrees during duck season. It's like, you know what? I'm just going to go crappie fish. I mean, I'm lucky I can go some other places and film, but if I didn't have that, it's like, man, do you really want to duck out when it's 50 and 70 on Christmas? I'm like, man, it's like that, no wind and sunny, I'm going to the lake. Well, that's right, that's right.

Well, Grant, man, we appreciate you coming on the show. I figure if anybody listens to this and they get their feelings hurt a little bit, it's probably because they might need to check in a little bit. Yeah, it's a little bit, they'll get over it. They will, and they probably really won't even pay attention to it, to be honest, and keep doing what they're doing because that's just how they're wired and think that's what you're supposed to do in this sport.

Most of them dropped out. I mean, that's kind of a good thing. I guess, I don't know. I'm not saying what I do is maybe the right way of doing it, but I will say it filters out who you interact with anymore, and it pushes the ones the way that act like that. I don't have to deal with them. So, I don't know, it took about two years to thin that group out, but I don't know. It's kind of a good thing if you ask me, so I don't have to watch it. I don't need to watch that stuff.

That's right. That's exactly right. Yeah, you kind of narrow your crowd to what fits your line of thinking. It's amazing how much better you feel about stuff. I need to do some unsubscribing myself.

Yeah.

All right, guys, thanks for listening to another episode. And we'll get Grant back on here again, maybe talk Central Flyway and maybe what he sees this season because, you know, he's out and about, give some good perspective on what he's seeing. And if you haven't followed him online, you know, on Instagram, if you haven't heard him yet, I do encourage you to check it out because some of his footage is pretty sweet, and especially if you like seeing Mallards fluttering through the woods because it's good stuff.

Yeah, I'll put it this way. I'm super lucky that I can set foot on that piece of property. I'm not naming names. They already know who it is and who they are, but that's one of the coolest places I've ever hunted, one of the most laid back. I mean, groups of guys that are hunting the quote right way. I'll leave it at that, but that's a special place. I'll say that big time. That's definitely looking forward to that one for sure.

Oh, I bet. All right, let's go and wrap it up. Thanks for listening again. Of course, thanks to our sponsors and we will catch you on the next episode.

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