Breaking Down the Midsummer Hot Topics

The midsummer doldrums have set in, but duck season is beginning to work its way back into coffee-shop conversations. Cason and Brent weigh the duck hunting pros and cons of permanent daylight saving time before heading down a rabbit hole connecting military strategy, waterfowl science and the catchphrases hunters love to repeat. They close with a look at why state wildlife commissioners are appointed rather than elected—and why putting natural-resource management on the ballot could produce more politics than progress.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:04

Welcome to the Standard Sportsman Podcast, where duck and goose hunting's hottest topics meet a mission to leave the resource better than we found it. Lifelong Arkansas hunter conservationist Kasten Stork and Brent Burch bring you thought-provoking conversations with entifled guests before, during, and after the season. Glad you're here. Let's get into it.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

Hey, it's Brenton Case and back with another edition of the Standard Sportsman Podcast. It's mid-July, and actually some rain is falling in Arkansas, which is not the norm for July. This is usually when we had a pretty dry patch, but man, it has rained a ton uh down here. What about y'all?

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Yeah. Matter of fact, while I was waiting on you to jump on here, I went and opened the blinds because I could hear it on the roof and I wanted to see it too.

SPEAKER_00 0:49

Yeah. Yeah. It surprised me. Uh I I knew we were supposed to get a little rain, but it's it's been pretty steady all morning, and that's gonna energize some crops that are in the ground and and maybe you know continue to saturate the ground a little bit and put some water on the landscape that we've been missing so badly here these last couple falls.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

Yeah, for sure. Uh it will. It's good for our bean crop right now. Our rice looks really good. We're a couple weeks from draining it. Um, but yeah, we got some good runoff this week. Uh we we we stored some water uh in some more soil areas, so that's gonna rejuvenate it. We may let it back off to do some more watering through the summer, but it's gonna give it a nice good shot. Um so it's I got no complaints. I'm I'm happy with it. And you know, I I think we talked about it that I had some raindrops on a windshield on the first. Today is the 15th, and I think we've had eight days, uh, most of which have been across the river, but still rain in the area. And I think that's a significant statement. Um, you know, we talked about it when it when it happened, right? Like, well, okay, well, it did rain at the farm on the first. Is it are we gonna get it at the farm? And and that's always kind of the question. But I think when you've got rain in the area, you always got that potential out there. We're seeing it. You know, you're getting it in Little Rock, we're getting it on the east side, now we're getting it in between. Um, what is that gonna mean going into the fall? And hopefully it means hopefully it means moisture because I think you and I both lean to I would rather have pretty abundant moisture in October and November than to be bone dry and get a big flood in January. Because I think most people uh I don't want to say misunderstand it, maybe they misunderstand me when I say this. To me, water early across the state stops a lot of short stops a lot of ducks, right? It's good habitat and they stay here, they land at Arkansas and they and they hold tight. If it's bone dry early in the fall, they overfly the state or they bounce back, and then you catch those rains in January. Like absolutely, there are people that get good duck hunting in January when that happens, but by and large, you spread a few ducks out over a ton of acres, whereas rain early kind of is the opposite effect. You you catch a lot more ducks.

SPEAKER_00 3:09

Uh yeah, I think it was a key point you made too, is you get the the bounce back ducks that get here and don't find the habitat that they're looking for, and then they they fan out east, west, north, south, whichever direction they can go and find something, and it and it actually kind of scatters initially, and then it concentrates the ducks because there are gonna be places they're gonna have water, the ability to pump it and and you know hold it, uh, catch it, you know, from spring to summer and to fall. And that's what you're gonna see the ducks gather around, and that's what's been happening the last few years versus you know, enough water on the landscape for them to spread out and use some different different places versus being so concentrated. So yeah, I mean it's it's it's worth talking about weather and rain in July because it's got some potential to do some things for us come fall when when the ducks start getting here.

SPEAKER_01 4:00

For sure. It uh it sets the table, so to speak.

SPEAKER_00 4:04

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SPEAKER_01 4:41

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SPEAKER_00 5:27

Well, there's a uh interesting discussion going on because the the U.S. House of Representatives um has passed some some legislation. It's got a it's got a little ways to go, but uh it's created quite a bit of buzz in the duck hunting community, and it relates to this upcoming season, because if we go through with what the uh what the legislatures are trying to impose, which is basically permanent daylight savings, um and uh it's made it through the House of Representatives, uh it's got to go through the Senate, uh, and then it's gonna gotta go against President Trump's desk. But he's already expressed support of it. So if if the Senate can find a way to push it through, which they did not do last year, if if everybody remembers, it meant it made some progress last year and and didn't get uh did get passed because the Senate uh kind of squashed it. So it never got even to President Trump's desk. But that's in play, and that could really change how we we chase ducks morning and afternoon.

SPEAKER_01 6:33

Yeah, or I guess at least change when we chase ducks.

SPEAKER_00 6:36

Well, when, yes. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 6:39

Um do you so we we were kind of talking about this before we hit record. It seems to be a big topic of conversation. Do you think people are really invested in it one way or the other, or is it just because it's intriguing?

SPEAKER_00 6:52

Uh, I think it's definitely intriguing, but if you if you really step back and think about what the change will mean, of course, you get to sleep in later. Um you you would be but on the flip side of that, if you're if you're a guy that likes to hunt in the afternoon, you're gonna be hunting, you know, you're still gonna be out there at dinner time. Uh so it's gonna put you, you know, back at camp, or if you're trying to hustle to get home to have dinner with the kids or or whatever the case may be, you know, you can be pushing uh pretty late in the evening there, but I don't know. I think it's I think it's more of a kind of the uh just the the um difference it could cause. It's kind of got people fired up, but I don't know that they really have stepped back and looked at um you know the what the potential consequences of it are, good and bad, um, of of making that decision. I've I've seen some reference to be able to scout later in the day and and more time to scout and things like that and and in the afternoons, but uh I don't know. It's uh I I don't know that I'm crazy about it, um, but I guess you just adapt um if if it actually makes it through.

SPEAKER_01 8:05

Yeah, uh it'll be interesting to see if it does. You know, I guess last time around it it everybody acted like it had a big head of steam and it was gonna make it, and then it just kind of fizzled, um looked like one of our uh our members had something to do with that. But uh I can't say that I'm really invested in it one way or the other. Um, I mentioned you earlier. I think for me, just you know, when you're on the road, whatever, not getting home at dark after work would be nice. Uh those those months of the year where it's getting dark at five or before get pretty kind of depressing in in some ways. So but uh it may be different, you know, getting up in the dark all the time too. So I don't know that I really care that much one way or the other, although the adjustment period each time, well, at least one time, really stinks. So that'll that'll be nice not have to do that if this passes.

SPEAKER_00 8:58

Yeah, it'll be interesting what they do with the the state WMMA's, you know. Well, the 4A, I guess the 4 a.m. start time will shift uh to 5 a.m., I guess, or something like that. Um I mean, there's just all kinds of little things if you start really thinking about time you know during the season. And it it kind of adds up. But uh yeah, you you're right. It did try to make it through last year, got shot down. In fact, Arkansas Senator Tom Cotton was was one of the ones or kind of led the charge to keep it from passing in the Senate. Uh he expressed some concern over safety. You know, if the if the sun and I think one of his points was if the sun's coming up at 9 a.m. in some parts of the country, that means people are driving to work in the dark. And is that a safety issue and and all kinds of things? Now it may be kind of government overreach at some level, but he was not wanting to fast track it. Uh let's do a little more thinking about this and maybe a little more research and understand implications, good, bad, or indifferent, and versus just, yeah, let's make this change and do away with this change in time twice a year. Um pretty interesting dynamic.

SPEAKER_01 10:10

Yeah, I was gonna say, I just think the inverse of that is a lot of people drive home in the dark in certain times of the year too, you know. So that's true. I always understood it, I could be wrong about this, but I always understood it as though it was implemented to keep basically to keep kids from standing at the bus stop in the dark every morning.

SPEAKER_00 10:30

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:31

I mean, I don't know why I heard that or where I heard that, but that was always kind of my understanding of it. And that's my kids ask me, like, why do we change time? Like, well, look how dark it would be. You know, like you'd be standing there in the dark. And like that's to me, that's more of a safety issue than driving to work. I mean, like, school bus, kids around a bus, all that stuff, you know.

SPEAKER_00 10:48

That's interesting. That that's that is a that's a very valid point. Um, that I'd really think about given I don't have kids in school anymore. So yeah, right. But yeah, how do you think about that? Yeah, you you you think about that. That's a that's a real thing. But uh, you know, how okay, how does it impact a guy that likes to hunt real quick before work and get in uh to the office? Well, that I mean that's not gonna happen anymore under this scenario uh with the time pushback, you know, as far as shooting light. So um yeah, I think there's a lot more to it than going, oh man, we could sleep in an extra hour. Um there's some there's some some some consequences, I guess, to whether that passes or not that that could make things quite interesting until we adapt. Of course, over time we would all figure it out. But uh That's right. Let me uh I'll put a little buzz.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

I'll put you on the spot here. When would it take effect?

SPEAKER_00 11:48

That's a good question. Um I don't know. You know, it also has to go through, okay, so it has to go through the Senate, their version of the bill, and then it has to go to the desk of the president for signature, and then the states have to make the decision as well. Yeah. Uh because the state could say, no, we're we're sticking with it. It's important to our ag community or you know, whatever. Um but apparently there's there's there's like 18 states that have already they've already passed it. And as soon as Congress says it's okay, it's going into effect. Their states are already already gone through the work. But um yeah, I'm trying to scan this article to see how that number alone tells you where a lot of the people stand on the subject.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

I mean, nearly 50% are already wanting it.

SPEAKER_00 12:35

Yeah. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 12:36

Not just not just accepting it, they're eager.

SPEAKER_00 12:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:40

It's I mean, it wouldn't hurt my feelings at all.

SPEAKER_00 12:43

No, like I said, I th I think we would all adapt. It would just be so foreign, uh, that those first season or two that it would take to figure it out that man, God, your first time.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

Yeah, you would feel like you slept in. That's exactly what I was thinking. Yeah. Uh I mean shooting line would be 7 30 ish.

SPEAKER_00 13:07

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Depending, yeah, depending on the time of the year, but um yeah, you'd be you'd be pushing pretty late. Look in January, you'd be pushing.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

I was gonna say, I'll admit it, you know, the first split and and we're just getting started and all that stuff, you know. But the first split, I'm like, God, this is early. By the end of January, it's like we're sleeping in, man. This is easy. So change at an hour, you know. That that aspect of it is enticing to me, not to sound lazy about it, but you know.

SPEAKER_00 13:37

Yeah, yeah. Uh I can't see where it says it would take effect, but um I don't know. It'd be interesting to see what the Senate does with it. That's uh it sounds like that's the stumbling block if uh if there is one. It sounds like if Trump gets it, he's he's all in.

SPEAKER_01 13:53

So Yeah, that's uh that's what I've heard. He's he's for it.

SPEAKER_00 13:57

Yeah. Well, I'm sure the other side of the aisle will be against it just to be against it. So that's politics in politics in DC nowadays.

SPEAKER_01 14:09

Man, it's worse than I've ever seen that stuff. I mean, just unbelievable. Like the the same people, the same people who wanted you to get fired if you didn't take an experimental drug now are the ones preaching individual freedoms and no dictator and all this stuff. I'm like, wait, where where was that outrage before? I don't and I don't care where you stand on the vaccine. That's that's totally your business, and it should have always been your business. I I was not in favor of government mandating that stuff. Um but yeah, I mean, and I don't think it's any secret where my political views lie, but I try not to weigh too too heavily on the show, but the the amount of people on both sides, I will say both sides, because I've got some people I know who will believe the other just because it you know that's the side they stand on. I'm like, good look, like do a research. Independent thinking is healthy.

SPEAKER_00 15:06

That's a big ask. That's a big ask. It's too easy to take take the headlines and the highlights and make a stance on something just because that's the that's the perceived thoughts of the the majority. I mean, but it and a lot of times, you know, it's really not. It's it's the uh most but most people are in the middle. Uh and that's right. It's but those extremes are noisy.

SPEAKER_01 15:29

Okay, so we just kind of opened the door for for this little segment. I I I'd mentioned before maybe doing an entire show on it, but I'm gonna dive into it since that kind of I mentioned to you, you and I both were talking last week about kind of going into rabbit holes, history dives. You you or World War II, and I've I've barely gone down a bunch of rabbit holes recently on the GWAT Global War on Terror. And we were talking about how there seems to be, you know, uh even in those things, this disconnect between information, intel, and then what's happening on the ground. And I and I loosely kind of compared it to what we see with duck hunting, right? Kind of these headlines like, oh, it rained in May, we gotta have more ducks. And I I haven't necessarily seen that headline, but but people I mean maybe we should do a little more backstory on our history dives and how this ties into where we're at with duck hunting. But I I feel like there's some similarities there. So I'll I'll I'll dive into where I've gone on on GWAT stuff. Like I've really gone down a rabbit hole on like Operation Red Wings, which was known as you know, Lone Survivor, um Roberts Ridge, uh Extortion 17, like these big, big failures, uh, you know, and you could even go into you know WMD Intel, right? Like the Intel says one thing, but you've got ground force commanders, people on the ground saying another, and making recommendations based on what they're seeing, and then somewhere, you know, thousands of miles away, hundreds of miles away in a talk, you've got a a you know head shed making decisions without experiencing what's happening in real time. And that a lot of times led to you know, these these loss of life, these these these horrible situations that we got people into. Um and that's not to really cast blame. I mean, I you know, that the enemy gets a vote too, but but in the same breath, so did the ducks, right? Like we you know, you see all these people, you know, you can tell me the population is the same as it was at this period in time, but I can tell you at the previous period in time duck hunting was better. I can't tell you your numbers are wrong. I mean, I can tell you what I can see and I can tell you what I could what I experience, and maybe that's where that gray area of pressure comes in, that we've got ducks that are pressured more and respond differently and all those things. But to me, there's I'm sorry I've talked for like 10 minutes there. There's some similarities in the the duck hunting science community and those military battles that I reference. Like you you have the it's intelligence, right? Like everyone always talks about, well, the data says we can kill all the hens we want to and it doesn't matter. Like, well, okay, the data doesn't actually talk out loud, it's just numbers and we interpret them the same way we interpret intelligence, be it through our intelligence agencies or anyone else, like it is just intelligence. So to take it as hard facts is I think giving it a little too much weight. I'm gonna stop and let you weigh in if you want to.

SPEAKER_00 18:37

No, I I I see what I see the direction you're going and how you're trying to get tie it together. And and I you're right. I think that the key phrase there was what you said at the end was hard facts. You know, there there can't be hard facts in a lot of waterfowl science because so much of it is extrapolated data. Uh, you know, we can't, we've said it, I don't know how many times we've said it on here, you can't count every duck that are alive. Um, and there's a lot of assumptions made, such as, you know, if they see four drakes on a wetland, they're gonna assume all four of them have a hen. So they get they get auto counted versus did you really see the hen? Can we verify that there was a hen, you know, uh either in the grass or on the nest, somewhere you're, you know, they're obviously very camouflaged uh from the air, but uh, you know, things like that. So yeah, it's it's it's similar to you know, bad intelligence the military's gotten. Um, you know, we did, we had this conversation the other day. I referenced some of the World War II stuff that you know Adolf Hitler made all kinds of mistakes based on bad intelligence and really bad assumptions. Um and there's uh even a movie out right now that um pressure that's about D-Day and the the um ability of a a British meteorologist to predict how the weather was going to be to launch the D-Day invasion. And anybody that follows that knows it was delayed by day. Well, it was also delayed uh because the weather was so bad that um a German commander, Erwin Rommel, left to go celebrate his wife's birthday and went back to Germany and was not present, was not on site to defend the Normandy coast when Americans showed up. So um, you know, if that's a you know a kind of extreme example, maybe, I don't know. But I I I get the point you're trying to make that that um yeah, it's okay to if that's your belief and that's your stance, but uh one way on one side of an issue or not with a with with waterfowl and waterfowl science, but at the same time uh, you know, maybe hear the other side and and be a little more open-minded to to that take and that stance because nothing it doesn't it doesn't really feel like anything in in this world is is uh a for sure. Um and it it it all comes down to how good is the data and how good is the intelligence. Uh despite the model, you know, the model may be the best it could possibly be, meaning AHM. But you know, what's that data look like going into it? And that's the that's the hard part, and that's what's spitting out what we should or shouldn't be doing related to limits to season links to to everything else.

SPEAKER_01 21:28

So that's uh and this may adventure more back into the military stuff. That was interesting that you mentioned D Day, um Operation Neptune Spear, the uh bin Laden raid got bumped 24 hours, and the guys on there in those uh in those Helos um had already stripped down like as light as they could go. I think only in in in the chalk that crashed, only maybe only one of them carried a pistol. I mean, they were max max weight. So they bumped it a night, right? And there's some speculation as to why it happened to align with state dinner that may not be a deal or not, whatever, but Anyway, the temperature was, I forget how many degrees warmer the following night. And when they went into the hover, the aircraft would not hover. It was overloaded for the air density. And that's when it settled and landed on the wall. And you know, a couple of the guys in the aftermath have some neck injuries, back injuries from that landing, because I think they were like 40 feet up when it when it settled pretty hard. And I know the guys in the 160th, you know, the group that flies those things. I'm sure they had a plan for that. I'm sure they knew the temperature difference and all those things, but but still, when it came time to, you know, when the rubber hit the road, it it didn't work and they crashed that thing. Um, anyway, that was interesting that on the note on D-Day and predicting the weather and all that stuff. Sorry, sidetracked. See how I go down these rabbit holes?

SPEAKER_00 22:44

Yeah, it's easy to do. It's easy to do, but I mean, you are it's our weather crossover from waterfowl to military operations, but it it's a real thing, uh, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 22:57

Oh, yeah. I mean uh I email and message Scott back and forth all the time during duck season, like week out, like, all right, man, what's what's this front gonna do? Like, where where's it gonna get cold and how cold is it gonna get? Uh I guess we deal with weather all the time. So that stuff fascinates me how it affects other things.

SPEAKER_00 23:16

Yep. Yep, yep, yep. Well, and the thing to clarify too, I guess within the the the if you want to call it intelligence related to waterfowl too, is that you know they have some they have some wide-ranging probabilities plugged into those things. And uh, you know, it's uh I guess the point of all that is you just can't take it as that hard fact. Uh it's a it's the best um judgments they can make given what the what the intelligence is telling them. And but you know, when when are those where are those weak spots or where are those um places where the you know if the intelligence is it telling us everything we need to to need to know and see? Because I think you would have a lot of duck hunters tell you, no, there's no way those numbers are right. You know, we're we're not killing that many ducks in say Kansas, or we're killing way more ducks than what they say in Kansas, or I'm you know, bake you know, seeing what you saw in the 80s, 90s, early 2000s versus the number of ducks you see now, um, you know, all that stuff. So uh, you know, it's a it's the same as uh a military commander misinterpreting what he thinks he sees. Uh I mean there was all kinds of in on D-Day operation, there was all kinds of uh fake armies and fake uh machinery and and tanks and and boats. They did all everything trying to do they could to do to trick the Germans. And I'm not saying anybody's out there trying to trick anybody with this, but sometimes your eyes don't don't tell you what you think. And that's uh guilt uh hunters are probably guilty of that, and and maybe at times there's some some on the waterfowl side side that are a little guilty of that too.

SPEAKER_01 25:05

Yeah, you know, and I think maybe that's when we're talking to Anne Marie about hen harvest and and you know, kind of the notion that I get tired of hearing it, you know, harvest doesn't matter, kill all the hens you want, doesn't matter. You know, I I think the narrative should be different. I'm not saying we should necessarily change the limit, although I think changing it does suggest a little more, it places a little more value on those hens. And I guess that's what I'm gonna say here. I wish instead of saying, well, the data says this, we should say the data suggest, because that's that's it. Like it's again, it's not a hard fact. Like we should understand. And maybe that starts in the top down, the leadership, the head shed, right? Like stop putting out the this uh this misconception that it's a hard set-in-stone fact because it's not. There's way too many variables. I mean, and and if you think otherwise, uh, you know, look at how many dry holes we went on on missions and in all these wars, you know, like it just the intel's not always right.

SPEAKER_00 26:08

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's uh I don't know, it's just it's just staying diligent as a I guess as a hunter and try to be educated as you can, because just like we talked about a minute ago in the political world, people grab headlines and run with them and and maybe don't have even all the details no different than daylight savings time, permanent daylight savings time. You know, they s yeah, you know, there's a there's a lot of angles these things can take and and all that. So it's um it's kind of an interesting uh interesting thought process versus saying this is hard and fast, this is what's going on, this is what this is what it is, when there could be some gray area, and there likely is some gray area.

SPEAKER_01 26:56

Yeah, and I I'll take this chance to kind of bail myself out for all my science community friends who might be mad at me right now for saying this. But uh, I mean things do get better in hindsight too. Technology gets better, right? Like we we understand stuff. We know a lot about you know the point system wasn't good. We know three, like all these things before AHM were worse than what we're doing. Not worse than what we're doing, but uh not as efficient, maybe knee jerk, whatever you want to call it. But you you can take like the the Battle of Roberts Ridge, for example, and in hindsight, you know, two I never medal of honor winners, two of them there, Slavinsky and John Chapman. And later in time, the predator feed comes out and you're able to actually view what was going on and see what you know, both things, both parties have evolved. They're you're able to learn a lot more later and much more after the fact than than in real time. So the same thing happens. Like we're we are getting better at counting ducks, we're getting better at understanding things. I mean, the drone technology that we've talked about, uh somebody mentioned that to us. Maybe I'm re mentioned that to us. But we had that guest on the show, you know, over a year ago talking about that technology. So we're things are improving. Uh, and and we have a lot, we owe a ton to the science community. So I'm not trying to really detract too much. I just makes me nervous when we speak in absolutes.

SPEAKER_00 28:16

Yeah, but but I'll I'll say this I don't get the impression that the science community speaks or a majority of it doesn't speak in absolutes. There are that's true, there's some that stretch it. I think I think the hunter really takes a takes a phrase or takes something maybe even out of context at times and makes it a a belief or uh you know a hill to die on that uh they kind of maybe miss the you know the whole picture, I guess. I I I don't I don't sense or feel like the waterfowl science community is is giving us a bunch of absolutes. Um I just think sometimes what what is said is either taken out of context or or or adapted to fit uh a belief or a narrative, and the duck hunters take it and make it a make it something maybe it's not.

SPEAKER_01 29:09

Yeah, I think that's right. I and usually it's just kind of the same as that political stuff, right? It's just to support their narrative. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:17

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tom Beckby is welcoming the spring and summer season with a fresh lineup of apparel and gear built for the months ahead. From lightweight shirts and breathable layers to everyday essentials designed for time outdoors and around town, these pieces are made to carry you through the season in comfort and style. Explore the latest at TomBeckby.com or visit one of their five stores in Franklin, Tennessee, Oxford, Mississippi, Birmingham, Alabama, Middleburg, Virginia, and Tuscaloosa, Alabama. Waterfowl Management Academy was built to turn passion into stewardship. With over 75 years of combined wetland management experience at the private, state, and federal level, our biologist team helps landowners build better habitat and hold more ducks. From the management community and course library to one-on-one coaching, they give you clear, practical tools to manage with confidence through every season. WMA is for landowners who believe their property is about more than just a place to pull the trigger. It's about building habitat that gives back to the ducks and strengthens the resource for everyone. If that sounds like you, visit Waterfowl Management Academy and become a member today. The Standard Sportsman is brought to you by Perfect Limit Outdoors, the creators of the designated Puller Automatic Jerk Rig. This is one product creating motion throughout your entire decoy spread. Check it out at PerfectLimitoutdoors.com and make the water move. The Standard Sportsman is brought to you by Noah Perry, financial advisor with Raymond James and Associates. Just like a successful day in the field starts with preparation and a solid plan, building a strong financial future takes clarity, discipline, and the right guide. Whether aiming for retirement goals, seeking professional investment management, or planning your children's future, contact Noah Perry at 501-313-7313 or send an email to noah.perry at raymondjames.com. Noah Perry with Raymond James helping you plan with purpose. You know, it's a seven-year term appointed by the governor. The seventh year, your final year of serving, you're your chairman and or chairwoman in her case. But so we got a new commissioner uh named here a couple weeks ago. And of course, you had factions that knew him or were from the area he was from, or or whatever the case may be that were fully in support. And then you had others that were like, I can't believe they put another guy, you know, blank, blank, blank, blank, fill in the blanks of what what uh whatever they want to uh kind of tag him as. And then you see the uh a lot of the verbalization of this should be an elected position. And you and I both share the stance that's a really, really slippery slope uh for a lot of reasons. And um I just I really struggle with it. I mean, and I can't say the current system is perfect because you know there's there's some there's some questions you can raise about how it's done now, and and keep in mind most states do it this way, uh, you know, where it is governor appointed. Um so yeah, I just I put this to a vote like an elected official, because people believe it should be elected official because they'll represent us, and I think that is that's what's slippery because the public doesn't always know what's best for a natural resource.

SPEAKER_01 33:01

Yeah, I and I think too, and you you so you hear a lot of complaints about the electoral college, and it's usually, you know, whoever didn't get their way that's that's bitching about that. But if you really dive into that and look at you know what the founding fathers had to say about it in in real time and really how forward thinking that process was, the the whole point of it is to kind of prevent this mob rule situation from happening, right? And and I get it, you know, my my candidate's been on the losing end of that before too. When the popular vote lose electoral vote, you know, it happens. But I think you have to understand the significance of it and and why why the Electoral College is what it is and what it what it does and how it protects everybody. Some sometimes you're on one side of it, sometimes you're on the other. But I I think that's why we don't we don't want to vote on commissioners, because I'm afraid you would just get my rule. You you would get people that would then campaign for it. Uh they would make promises, you know, oh I'm gonna let you hunt, whatever. You name it. Whatever extreme view you wanted, that's what you would get. Um so I that's uh that to me that's the negative side of it. Like there's no real positive from it. I I understand numerous complaints about whatever individual you want to pick, you know. Um and I guess in a sense, like maybe we we do already kind of hold elections for that. Like vote for a governor that's gonna install the type commissioner you want, you know, like we and I'm not trying to call anybody out, but if this is something that's significant and important to our Kansans, then we need to start saying as much. Like, you know, that should be something that a governor talks about in their campaign, you know, who who they would look for and all this stuff. Is it gonna be, you know, cronyism, or are we actually gonna put people on there with a science background, a management background, a enforcement background, whatever you name it. But uh I think until our voices are heard, you know, that we want certain things or we expect that, then it's kind of a relatively ignored in a sense. I mean, have you ever heard a governor talk about the Arkansas Game of Fish Commission while they're on the camp campaign trail?

SPEAKER_00 35:18

No, not really. And and that's kind of surprising given how large the agency is and how much impact it has in us in a state like Arkansas. So that part is uh kind of interesting, but I mean they're they're trying to appeal to a larger uh voting public. Um but I mean if you if you really think about it, it's it's a pretty key decision on what kind of people they put on there because uh you'd be naive to think that there's not some political you mentioned cronyism. I don't know if that's exactly the right word, but I mean you're people that get appointed to that thing are are they're connected. Um and whether they've donated money, raised money, uh campaign for, they've got a connection to that uh that governor and not just the current governor. This this goes back a long time. Uh so uh there is a there is a political connection that, or even a political favor, if you want to put it that way, that is tied to this, but they do try to add a you know diverse group from around the state. They also try to add some diversity into what their uh you know favorite game is to chase or their favorite outdoor activity, because you got to remember the commission, Arxlagen Fish Commission manages a lot more things than just hunting and fishing. Uh there's outdoor activities uh that are that are related that fall under their scope and that are done on land that they manage and own. So, you know, it's it's a pretty wide net. So if you held these positions as elected and you got six duck hunters elected and and nobody that knows anything about deer, nobody knows anything about bird watching uh on a WMA or anything else, then then you don't bring uh a level of expertise to that commission. It's basically a board, uh board of directors that's that's making decisions on the behalf of wildlife. You'd be you could end up really short-sighted with an elected official that that is out there campaigning. You're right, you're right, making promises that uh, you know, I've even heard people reference uh that you know he's gonna put blinds back in the you know those WMAs up northeast Arkansas that used to allow permanent blinds and they used to allow permanent decoy spreads and and all these things. I don't know if that's really what he's promised anybody or not. Uh I think it would be hard to get past unless he got to the point where he was chairman. Usually the chairman can kind of rally enough votes to get something done as he's he or she is leaving. That's kind of their flagship uh thing to pass uh, you know, during their tenure and their chairmanship. So possibly, but uh that that would have a long ways to go. I think you would have some other commissioners push back, and it you you know, it takes a majority vote uh to get something passed like that. So it can't be just because one guy wants it, it's gonna happen. Um not to say some commissioners, very strong armed commissioners, have gotten some things done that kind of made you scratch your head, um, and not just and not necessarily related to ducks and duck hunting. So um yeah, it's just uh it could get really messy if it was elected. Um because that's um I know the people would feel like they're more represented. They do feel disconnected from a uh person that's appointed by the governor because usually that person that appointed the governor is not um necessarily always a super accessible person. They're um I would put them as a more well-to-do type that people feel don't feel connected to, and they may feel more connected to somebody that they saw campaign and they voted for, or they may know. Um got people holding political office from all walks of life. So um I but I don't know representing the people necessarily get us to a better result. It might get you what you want from a hunting aspect, but does it do what's best for the for the duck or the deer or the or the you know the largemouth bass? I I would have my doubts if if it was it because they would feel like if they were elected, every election cycle that came up, they'd have to campaign again and uh you know make promises and and try to get people to rally to vote for them. And that that could really overextend some some stuff.

SPEAKER_01 39:55

Yeah, it really could. And you start dealing with you know campaign promises and I just think it gets ugly. Uh I I understand feeling disconnected. Uh I mean I think even at times you and I do, even I'll even say even with advisory council, you know, there was uh there were those in favor and there were those opposed. Uh that thing was never never given room to grow, I think so. I'll put it. Um I think it had great potential and it just kind of you know petered out. So yeah, I I think it's it's I understand where people feel disconnected, not represented. Um, but I think if we if we voted for Jim Bob Outlaw because he's cool and would let us hunt all day or or whatever we wanted to do, we would end up with a really poorly managed resource. So I yeah, I don't know that there's a real good answer, but uh an election is not it.

SPEAKER_00 41:05

No, no, I don't think so either. Uh you know, an elected official is gonna have real short-term goals, and a lot of things in conservation world are very forward-thinking, long processes. Um, you know, that's that's a slippery slope you get on. Um then uh you can get into the whole, okay, you're running a campaign for an elected official. Where did where did the money come from that backed your campaign? I mean, is is is du in your back pocket? Are you gonna do what du do you did because they like what you what you know where you stand and they're gonna try to get you on the commission because it follows what they want, or is it I don't know, dark money slides into it, but I guess it could. Um, you know, it's I mean politics. But I mean, do you get a backing by a group that's uh you know doing everything against what's best for for our natural resource?

SPEAKER_01 42:02

So it's yeah, that's a that's a good point. So I'm sorry, I'm gonna I'm gonna interrupt you. I think everyone gets as excited about these elections as if you would get these really cool guys who are all public land duck hunters, but but what what if you had a bunch of guys on the bottom end of the cash trip refuge that were private dollars and you know they wanted to close voting access to it, you know, like what what if it went the other way? Like you really opened Pandora's box to some stuff you don't want.

SPEAKER_00 42:32

Yeah, yeah. Uh that's a that's a solid point because uh you know, a lot of times campaigns, especially if especially if it's something as powerful as being an Arkansas Game and Fish Commissioner, it is a very influential position in the state of Arkansas. Uh you know, probably just below maybe the University of Arkansas Board of Trustees. Um it's probably right maybe a maybe a smidge below it, but it's similar level um as in the kind of the pinnacle of anything you could pointed to, uh that would be one of the most powerful ones. And so, yeah, you may get something that's you you can't outspend what they could rally to get uh get elected to to push forward a narrative um that that fits what they want. Um it's it's just a slippery slope. And it circles back to that daylight savings time discussion. You gotta look at it from all angles and really think that through. Um, because yeah, just because and and we hear it, I I I think every commissioner that gets appointed, and this is not critical, and I know why they have to say it, but every commissioner that gets appointed is they always mention something about public land hunting. And I and I understand why, because that's the ground that the game of fish manages. Manage your farm, they don't manage my farm, they don't manage, you know, name White Oaks or Stan Jones or whatever. They don't manage that ground. So they have to have and pay attention to public land. But I don't think public land duck hunters are gonna go, man, these commissioners have really done everything we wanted them to do. So they're just always mad at them. I don't I don't know another way to put it. Most public land duck hunters seem to be mad at the gaming fish pretty much perpetually for whatever reason. And uh just because you got someone elected, that I don't I don't think you can because they may say all say all the right things, but you know, are they gonna have the political clout to actually make things happen? I don't know. Just because you elected them doesn't mean they get stuff done. I was gonna say, when's the last time a president followed through with all their problems?

SPEAKER_01 44:57

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's it's it's easy to say you're gonna do it, it's a whole lot harder to actually get it done.

SPEAKER_00 45:03

Yeah, yeah. I just I just man, I just I wish we could put that to bed. Um I uh it's not gonna happen unless I guess the I guess the state legislator, because that's what's interesting about Arkansas, and this is a point of clarification. You know, amendment 35 made the game of fish a a separate entity. They're their budget has to be approved by the legislature, but they don't have to take everything they do to the legislator to get it approved to uh get it through and and get it put into practice. They operate pretty much independently. But but we saw a couple years ago them them kind of pull the purse strings. You know, it was supposed to be over the executive director's salary, but it it really was a lot more than that. So uh they held some things up and delayed some things. So that's the power that they have. I guess they could monkey with the budget if if they they tried to go that route. But I it sounds like it would be a big hill to climb to get that change from being an independent agency to being directly tied to the to what the legislators decide. And that that gets into that whole ballot box biology thing and and trying to satisfy constituents for votes isn't always what's best for a duck or a deer. So um that's what that's what scares me.

SPEAKER_03 46:27

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SPEAKER_00 46:56

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SPEAKER_01 47:45

Like I just I can't see where it would be would be good uh really at all.

SPEAKER_00 47:52

Well, and as to your point a minute ago, it could be catastrophic the wrong way people think. Uh that are claiming for either party.

SPEAKER_01 48:00

I mean like for either not party, that's not the right word. For either. It could just be really, really crappy.

SPEAKER_00 48:10

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I hope it never comes to that. Uh that's that's uh that's uh it's kind of it would be a scary place to be. And um I d I I don't think that's we're at the we're at the point in time with anything that any any species or any place that they're managing it would be good for. Whether it's turkeys, whether it's deer, ducks, the WMAs, um anything about all those things have some some hurdles right now, and you start messing with the the people that are supposed to be managing that, boy, it could get it could get messy real quick.

SPEAKER_01 48:55

Yeah, for sure. Uh I think it would what uh what else you got on your mind today?

SPEAKER_00 49:02

That's about it. First day in the in the new office, um you know, making that transition from the commercial real estate world to the the land brokerage stuff. So trying to get my my bearings about me, but um need to run to the farm, uh trying to get some last minute food in some places. We had some areas mentioned back in the spring that we weren't able to plant. So I've got some still got some time to get some stuff in the ground to at least supplement some of the natural stuff. And so um maybe I can piggyback off this rain and make it worth worthwhile. But that's that's it. It's got a transition. Plus, we're we're putting the putting the bow on greenhead. We're getting really close um with that. Nice. Uh that that and that's gonna be a that's gonna be a cool issue. There's some there's some good stuff in there. Um and even get even snuck in some of your photography. So nice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did a photo spread that was all Arkansas-based photographers uh that get out there in the outdoors and specifically, obviously, waterfowl hunting and and uh built a built a photo shoot, um, kind of a photo essay out of that. We there's always one in there and this year we decided let's let's see what the Arkansas guys can provide. It ended up turning out really well, and and uh so that'll be a big big feature in there. But yeah, you got you got a few few photos in there.

SPEAKER_01 50:30

Oh, cool. That's always always fun to see stuff end up in a magazine. Yeah, for sure. Uh I don't still uh it's like I was talking about our our text chain with Lee and Phil. Like uh every time I submit an image to DU, I'm like, there's no way I'm beating those two guys for that cover. No way. Well, yeah, I got another cover. I'm like, yep. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:51

Yeah, they're they're a different level. They're different level, no doubt. But the cover image, uh the cover uh image this year, it's it's it's a cool shot, but it was taken by a guy named Michael Schellenbach, who's a uh retired military, um, and he was a photographer in the military. So he would he would even go into uh you know action and take take photographs, just like you, you know, you think about those old World War II photographers that were embedded with stuff like that. Anyway, but he's very involved in uh the Derby Warrior support there, uh, you know, that new lodge. We wrote a story on them last year, but he took a really cool shot of a a lab with his a black dog. Uh it's pretty much just right above the shoulders up, poking his head out of a blind. You and you can tell he's locked in on the ducks that are working. Yeah, but it made for it made for a really cool shot. And it works really well for a cover. You know, not every there's some really cool images out there, but not all of them work for a cover. Um, but but this one is the one we settled on. It's it's pretty sharp.

SPEAKER_01 51:54

Yeah, so that's a whole nother my so my wife and I were talking about that, like specific excuse me, specifically the cover that Lee just got when the text chain, and like she and I were talking about it. And uh I was like, well, hey, not only is Lee a whole nother class of photographer than myself, like he can shoot an image kind of understanding what the cover layout's gonna look like. Like I'm I do good just to get it in focus, you know. But but yeah, there's uh that's a whole nother layer to that that that most people don't think about, understand, or even comprehend that not only does the image have to be striking and compelling and all those things artistically, you gotta fit all the stuff on the page with it. So it's it's a whole it's a whole thing.

SPEAKER_00 52:36

Yep. Yep. Um and we uh I we've even had some photographers not even and some really good ones, I think ones I would say but they they do it professionally. I mean, like a that's what they do, but they'll submit things for covers that don't work for c I mean we can't put the blurbs anywhere on there, it'll cover up you know what makes the image so impactful. And and uh there's definitely an art to it and and definitely helps to telephotographer up front. All right, now I want something from from this hunt, shoot some stuff that would work for a cover. Uh so going through that process and it helps ahead of time. So they can shoot regular and then do a few things that you could you could work for a cover. But um anyway, uh it's it's kind of a fun process to go through and and work through all that. But um, but yeah, that thing's gonna go to press here in the next week or so, and then we'll have it back towards the end of August. Um, be available for everybody. But um yeah, always a fun process to work on that one.

SPEAKER_01 53:41

Yeah. Well, that's cool. Uh yeah, hopefully the shot of moisture is gonna help some of your your natural seed and and vegetation there. We we had to get out last week and get after some coffee beans that went from you know just being a few and acceptable to like carpet. Oh, that's too much. Yeah, they will uh that that monoculture can happen fast. So hopefully we got those knocked back and let a little spring on top and everything else do its thing. But always always a battle. It's not uh it's not as easy as some people think.

SPEAKER_00 54:16

No, no, it's not. And it's amazing how fast some of that stuff can get away from you, too. And then yeah. And that's not that's not complaining.

SPEAKER_01 54:24

Like I love doing it. I mean, enjoy it. Enjoy it. But it's uh there's a lot of work that goes into it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:31

Well, you just think you know, you're ahead of one thing and then and something else gets to going. So uh or it rains, or it gets dry.

SPEAKER_01 54:39

Yeah, you the weather changes.

SPEAKER_00 54:42

Yeah, yeah. They can throw some curveballs at you for sure. 100%.

unknown 54:47

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 54:48

All right. Well, I guess I'm gonna take us out of here. Uh, I appreciate everyone tuning in today. Um, you can check us out online at the standard sportsman or anywhere you get your podcast.