Breaking Down the Midsummer Hot Topics, Part 2

Talking season is in full swing, and the waterfowl expo circuit isn’t far behind. Cason and Brent preview their upcoming appearance at DUX in Memphis, where they’ll record a live podcast, before wading into several hot-button management issues. They break down the new draw system at St. Francis Sunken Lands WMA, weigh the pros and cons of the “three-splash” rule in South Dakota and Nebraska, and unpack the uproar surrounding Arkansas’ new one-time fee for non-consumptive WMA users.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:04

Welcome to the Standard Sportsman Podcast, where duck and goose hunting's hottest topics meet the mission to leave the resource better than we found it. Lifelong Arkansas hunter conservationist Kasten Short and Brent Birch bring you thought-provoking conversations with entifled guests before, during, and after the season. Glad you're here. Let's get into it.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

Hey everybody, this is Kate Short, back with another episode of The Standard Sportsman. Joined as always with Brent Birch. Brent, how's it going today?

SPEAKER_01 0:33

It's good. It's good. Uh scrambling around like always, but uh, you know what? I'm starting to hear a few more people talking about duck hunting, so that's always that's always fun. What um seems like August is when we turn the page. We're almost there. But uh yeah, start daydreaming a little bit, especially when it's 103 or 104 or whatever the hell it is outside.

SPEAKER_00 0:54

Man, it was rough earlier this week. Rough. Uh looks like nice here for a few days and then hot again next week. So y'all uh y'all catch any rain over there?

SPEAKER_01 1:05

No. Uh no, we could use it. Um it's it's pretty dry. Uh it's it's crazy how we go from uh monsoon season all spring and then even some into the early summer and and just couldn't escape dry period when you needed it. And now when you need a little moisture, you can't get it. So uh this is it what'll be interesting is how it factors into people trying to get food plots in here this last little stretch. Um kind of into kind of at the end of the window for the most part. Uh but you know, you typically need a little moisture to work with, but uh not getting it. But I I interesting, I saw uh Tony Vandemore, everybody knows who Tony Vandemore is in Habitat Flats. I saw he was uh scattering millet on dry, crack ground and was didn't seem to be that worried about it. I've never had much success that route, but yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

I don't know, millet's uh iffy, it's always iffy to me. Okay, either I plant it too early and it it falls down and regerminates, or I wait late and then it uh it's just dry. You know, when you get to this time of year. But I've you know, I mentioned there on several episodes, uh talked about it raining on the first on the east side of the state. Uh had another shower roll through over past midnight early, early this morning, which made uh day 13 that I've had a shower of some sort. And it's interesting, that old wise tail usually holds pretty true, but on the first, when we did get that rain, it was extremely scattered. Um, so it looks like in very small places it's holding true, but uh not widespread. Although I will say, even at the farm, you know, we've missed we've missed a bunch of chances, but we've had rain chances off and on pretty good this month. Um so while it's dry, it's not one of those, it's not that July where you can't buy a cloud anywhere, you know. Um there's been opportunities. We just keep missing them where where I want it and need it.

SPEAKER_01 3:01

Right, right. Well, Arkansas County is not that fortunate. It's been it's been pretty dang dry.

SPEAKER_00 3:07

Yeah. Yeah. Uh we're getting pretty close. I need to make a video of it, but uh, we're gonna drain some rice here pretty soon, maybe next week. So that's kind of exciting. Uh some combines in the field here pretty soon. So about to turn the corner.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

Yeah, that's right. Yeah, I've I've talked to a few other people that are that are they're staging, you know, to get ready to to start harvest. So uh it's crazy to think that you know it's not even August yet, and people are staging that up when you you know you dial up, dial the clock back 20, 30 years, it was October you'd be doing this. But uh that's not where we are anymore. Not where we are anymore.

SPEAKER_00 3:48

No, I remember so it was 10, 2010, because my father passed away in 10. I think we got total that summer less than six tenths of an inch of rain. I mean it was just dry. I think ever all the old timers compared it to 1980 and that drought we had in 80. But anyway, 10 was really bad. But I remember we uh he died on the 9th, and the day of his funeral we started cutting rice. So that was probably as early as I've ever seen us cut rice, at least at that point. That was very, very early. But again, dry spring, dry summer just kind of lent itself to that. Yeah. But it's abnormal. This is not uh, you know, we we had early dry spring this year and got some rice in before we got wet, but uh we'll see. Maybe we'll have enough water to get it to head back out again.

SPEAKER_01 4:37

Uh yeah. Uh that'd be that'd be interesting to see how much of that goes on uh this year. You know, uh it seemed like ratoon crops were a hot topic a couple years ago, and and then maybe the last year or two, it's kind of faded a little bit. Um, you know, it's all you you know, it's what conditions you're dealing with going uh 12 months out of the year is whether you're gonna be able to pull it off or not. Um and yeah, it seems like the last two hadn't hadn't set up for for everybody to try to do that, but but maybe this year will be a little different.

SPEAKER_00 5:10

Yeah, I think it will be for some. Um it's interesting how it's so timing and weather dependent for us and probably the majority of the rice production acres in Arkansas. Um you get south, it's probably a little more easy a little easier to do it. But I saw in a newsletter I get each week, I think rice harvest Louisiana kicked off in like maybe late June.

unknown 5:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:33

I was like, how on earth? Like that just that's hard for me to comprehend cutting rice in June or even early July, but uh but they do it down there. So yeah, it'll it'll be interesting to see. I think we'll get some acres to to produce some grain. And you know, the last time we did it, uh, I'm sure somebody's listening, because I I make the statement pretty often that we don't we don't plant grain for waterfowl. And we don't. I mean, I I try not to even plant millet. Uh I'd rather use natural. But we will, when we can, we will uh we will retune rice. So I don't know how that fits in everyone's narrative of whatever they want to call it.

SPEAKER_01 6:14

Yeah, well, uh and truth be told, uh whether you hunt the woods, you hunt the public woods, it doesn't matter. You should be uh begging and hoping that some people do uh put some food out there for the ducks this year because uh you know we're we're we're down a significant number in in rice acres. Um we haven't since seen since the early 80s, I think. I mean, think about how long ago that was. Um you know, we're down 35-40 percent for even over last year. Um it just there's not a lot of rice acres out there. So you even if from a waste grain standpoint, we're gonna come up way short. Beans don't have the same same impact on a duck that that a rice does. I mean, beans spoil so fast once they get wet that um that's not gonna provide a lot of you know nutritional value for a duck. And then, you know, you're seeing a lot of corn acres, but a lot of those corn acres in Arkansas aren't flooded. Of course, a lot of corn acres in the whole United States are not flooded. Um, but uh not not a whole lot here unless they were set up for to be a some kind of food plot type situation. But you could always kind of count on rice uh and the waste grain left, even with modern-day combines, you know, there was some food left out there. If they didn't cut it too early and it regerminated, which you did see a lot, uh, you know, you especially it seemed like when you're trying to get ready early spec season and you'd see all those green shoots out of the ground that have no chance to head back out. But um, you know, you're not gonna you're not gonna see that on the landscape this year just due to the rice acreage being so so down compared to even year over year and decade over decade.

SPEAKER_00 8:07

Yeah, that's a very good point. You know, even with fall tillage, burning, you know, all the residue practices that you see people put in place, especially in a dry year, you know that a lot of that waste grain was gone, but still yet, you could come back next spring, you know, draw the water down, and you'd still see some rice germinate. So there was still some seed that survived even after ducks and geese use it all year too. Um those acreage being you know at the near half century lows, uh, you're not gonna have any of that waste grain. Um so that's gonna be interesting. I don't know, you know, does a would a wet fall overcome that? Would we cat would we would we catch more ducks and keep them here or are they gonna move on south? And and if they do, if they end up in Louisiana, are we gonna say that it's because there wasn't rice or are we gonna acknowledge that corn didn't stop them all? Or or you know, what what's the what's the talking point gonna be next year after this year shakes out? Uh I think it'll be similar to what it is right now. I don't think we're gonna see the huge changes, but it will be I feel like we say this every year. It will be an interesting year.

SPEAKER_01 9:18

Yeah, well that I mean that's the dynamic of of duck hunting. I mean, you're you're you've got so many variables pulling and pushing ducks in different directions that uh it it that's why it's really hard to put you know all your eggs in one basket on one thing. Uh and this year will will likely be another oddball year if the El Nino thing pans out and we get a bunch of rain and it puts a bunch of water in the landscape, including in the woods, uh sheet water in places we haven't seen in a in a handful of years because it's been so dry. And then you yeah, you don't have the the waste grain left over from you know rice harvest. I mean, that's that's gonna be different than the last handful of years. So it's like uh, you know, are you gonna throw this year out uh of your of your whatever narrative you're pushing because it's gonna be odd compared to the last handful of years. So I don't know. It it you're right. I mean it's a good point. What's what's it what's everybody's gonna feeling gonna be after a season like this if it if it comes along like it's predicted? Um we all know the weather's a little hard to hard to get right. Uh, but you know, by the by the the history of things, we should see a lot of water on the on the landscape for for duck season and uh where are they gonna find some food to to eat. Um is this gonna concentrate them, even if there is water out there, is it gonna concentrate them more because there's not food out there on the fringes or or are they gonna find it anyway, whether it's bugs or uh, you know, whatever alternate uh deal they decide to eat on because of the lack of rice? I don't know. It'll be it will it'll be very, very interesting.

SPEAKER_00 11:08

Yeah. Uh and I should I should point this out when I was talking about ratoon rice. We've only been successful with it to any degree once. Uh only really tried once. Um but we didn't hunt it. Uh I say that. That'll that'll make some people happy, that'll make some other people mad. Uh we did not hunt in it, we just let them use it. You know, they got in it late in the year. Uh it was a neat experience, a little eye-opening. It wasn't like it just turned the sky black with ducks, but it did give them gave them food where otherwise was pretty pretty barren landscape that time of the year. So uh we hunted around it. I know uh it helped our season out. That was a pretty tough year. What was it through two, three years ago? Uh I know our our neighbors reported some of their best duck hunting ever, so they benefited from it. Uh, you know, put that in your narrative however you want to. But but that was our experience with it. And that's uh that's our intention this year. The the places we're gonna have it typically aren't where we hunt a ton. Um, so it's more a I'd rather have them around me than not at all.

SPEAKER_01 12:14

Yeah, that's right. That's right.

SPEAKER_03 12:16

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SPEAKER_01 12:46

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SPEAKER_00 13:01

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SPEAKER_01 13:32

We're uh hurdling into talking season. I mean, it's SEC Media Days for football, but it's also getting to be event season for all the outdoor pursuits, it seems. Um I was talking to our friend Jimbo Ronquist last week on something, and and this past weekend was gonna was gonna be the last time he was at home for uh quite some time because he's got shows to attend. And I've seen some of the the brands that do shows, they've had theirs recently. Um we got Delta Waterfowl, it may be this weekend even. Um but you and I were invited to come back and record the podcast at the the Ducks Expo there in Memphis. DU puts on and and use their studio and and everything else. So uh I guess we're in the full swing of all that.

SPEAKER_00 14:23

Yeah, it it seems to be. Um maybe we should have hashed this out before we uh decided to hit record. Are we gonna we're gonna air an episode on Thursday and then run the Ducks episode the following week? I think it's what we did last year.

SPEAKER_01 14:36

I think it is what we did, yeah. Um just letting our listeners know. Yeah, right, right, right. And and it'll uh if if du does what they did in the last year, they'll they'll live stream the podcast you know the day of Saturday. We're gonna record. Uh are we still on the two to three slot on Saturday? That's correct. Yeah. So yeah, so two to three on Saturday, they're gonna live stream uh the podcast uh there from their studio, and then they give us, they bundle it up and and allow us to re-air it so our audience can hear it. So we'll run it the following Thursday. But uh so we're gonna do that, and then you got asked to be on a, I guess, a panel discussion that they're gonna air uh regarded to B pop and and everything else, and it's kind of got some some name brand folks that are gonna participate on that, so that should be pretty fun.

SPEAKER_00 15:31

Yeah, I know uh you and I always enjoy hashing over those numbers. Um, so that'll be fun, interesting. Hopefully I don't uh get too opinionated on that one. Although I don't think my opinions are that wild. Some people don't.

SPEAKER_01 15:48

Yeah. Well, uh it's a it's a cool event, whether you're a huge supporter of Ducks Unlimited or not. It's it's always kind of fun to, you know, get in a convention center full of duck hunters and run into folks you know that you don't see that often and shake some hands, meet some people. I last year, you know, I I set up camp in the Tom Beckby booth and I gave away some books. You know, if somebody uh made a donation or joined Ducks Unlimited, I just gave them a Grand Prairie book. Um and uh had several people that I guess either listened to the podcast or saw it on social media that's gonna be there and came by and introduced themselves, how much they love the show, uh and and then had some really interesting very interactive discussions uh over topics we'd covered or stances and some with, some against, uh, and all that. But it was kind of fun to to interact with some people that listen to the show. So uh I'm not doing that this year as far as being uh you know kind of set up in the booth and giving away books, mainly because I'm in between some small batch printing of books. Uh I might bring a few with me, but uh I'm not sure. It was kind of a kind of a lot to to haul cases of books into the convention center um in the August summer heat, but uh at any rate, um I'll get over there sometime Saturday and walk the floor and talk to folks uh that I hope to see and and all that. So um sounds like you'll be over there quite a bit of the day on Saturday.

SPEAKER_00 17:21

Yes, yes, uh definitely on Saturday, and I don't know, may swing by on Friday as well. It's a little hard to uh to bring my whole crew in tow while we're trying to record a podcast. So we may may swing through on Friday and let them see everything. They enjoyed it last year. Yeah. It was kind of their first show, and then eventually it was like, Dad, why is everyone blowing duck calls? I'm like, yeah, that's that's just part of it.

SPEAKER_01 17:45

Yeah. You know, they really do that smart at the Wings Over the Prairie Festival in in Stuttgart, uh, because on Main Street, you know, where they hold the calling contest, they have uh all these tents, and the tents have vendors in them. And the the year the book came out, uh and in the following year, I had a booth and and sold uh a ton of books because there's a gazillion people come through that thing just wandering around you know, middle of the day in between hunts or being at duck camp or whatever it is, but they put all the duck callers, all the the makers of duck calls in one tent. So if you don't want to hear all that uh at ear blasting level, you can skip that tent. But if you do, you can go in there and and try calls out and everything else. So they segment it from the rest of the rest of the uh event so everybody doesn't have to listen to guys you know cranking down on a on a call with their main street level hail call. Um it might be nice if they did that as well because yeah, after a while it can get a little annoying. And not everybody that steps up there can can blow a duck call with proficiency, so you get some of that too.

SPEAKER_00 18:58

You know, I don't even care if you can. Just after a while, I get tired of hearing them. Uh yeah. I mean, yeah. I I get tired of blowing one in the duck blind, you know. It gets it gets old to me. Like just it's they're loud. Whether you're good at it or not, it just wears on you. And I, you know, that's interesting too. We talk about the the show season. It's interesting to me uh how and why these brands uh justify it. I'll just say that. Like, how do they justify going to all these shows? Because some of them do, some are all in, like we talk about with Jimbo, and they go to and and unless you look at the calendar and follow these different places. I mean, Rogers and Max and you name it, like everybody has a fall show and they all expect the brands to be there, right? And and you know, a lot of the brands that we're talking about only have waterfowl. Some of those brands have fishing, waterfowl, big game, you know, like so their budget is now split upon three sports. And then how do they judge the return on investment for being there? I think there's definitely an investment in community, but I don't know that's really driving sales that much. I don't think they really feel like it's driving sales that much either, but it's just kind of one of those things they feel like they have to go do, or I I don't know. But it's it's changed so much from you know, we've you and I've talked before about the great outdoor wars festivals, the old the old DU events years ago when that was kind of the only thing. And those were and the Ducks event is great now. I had a good time last year. It was great seeing everybody. But the branding and marketing and everything is so much different now than it was then. These expectations to to hit the road and be somewhere every single weekend, like man, that's gotta be exhausting. I I I wouldn't want I wouldn't want to do it. I'm sure it's not a lot of fun for Jimbo either.

SPEAKER_01 20:52

Right, right, right. Well, uh the I I remember when we came up there to ban Specklebellies at your place, the the run and gun box van that those those guys, those young guys were driving around in, the former AM football players, as I recall, uh, that had had signed up to be, you know, the run and gun guys. Uh, and I can't remember what brands, seems it was Yeti and Yeti and Sitka and Rigamright, I believe. Yeah, yeah, that that yeah. So they you know they were hitting every show in that and driving around and sleeping in that that box van. And I guess if you're trying to get a foothold in the industry, I guess I can get it when you're young and hungry and don't know any better. But yeah, that's a tough gig to to set those up. But I would imagine that's for some of these smaller companies, these shows are a big deal to their uh ability to create some revenue because it's hard to compete with a big national brand on um advertising dollars and and social media dollars and everything else. So you got to get in front of the people and and an event like this or the Delta Waterfowl at Expo, you know, they they bring a lot of people through the door. Um and I I I I would suspect they count them quite a bit. We uh typically Lyle Real Estate has a booth as well, but we had a uh some SNAFU actually before I started that uh some miscommunication didn't get the booth secured and we were on a waiting list and that didn't work out. But usually uh Delta or Lyle's got a presence at Delta Waterfallon du with a booth and the whole deal. So um hopefully we'll be back in the mix next year. But I I can see the pros and cons of it from a business standpoint, but man, yeah, it's tough. Um it's tough being on your feet all day and and having the crowds roll through and the you know, the the nonstop interaction, you don't get much of a break.

SPEAKER_00 22:50

Yeah. And you're right, that's a good opportunity for a lot of those smaller brands. I mean, I looked at uh I think I said this in our text, uh some of the uh sponsors or different gun brands that were involved there, and there was any of three or four different brands there, you could go buy uh an M2 Binelli that's still in production by someone else. Um so I think for those yeah for those brands and stuff that kind of fly under the radar, it's a it's a good opportunity to get out there and show show your product.

SPEAKER_01 23:20

Yep, nope, you're right, you're right. So I you know, I I'd look forward to going over there for a day and and spending a little time and seeing some folks and seeing the new products and things like that. I don't know anything I'm in the market for. I feel pretty pretty good about my uh my gear inventory. Um but you never know. Sometimes you run into something you can't can't do without. But um I'm planning on uh not not returning across the Mississippi River bridge with a bunch of stuff. Yeah, you say that. We'll see. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tom Beckby is stepping into the spring and summer season with a fresh lineup of apparel, bags, and travel essentials built for wherever the road leads. From lightweight shirts and breathable layers to durable duffels and everyday carry pieces, these are the goods designed to move easily from long weekends to time outdoors and around town. Explore the latest at Tombetbee.com or visit one of their five stores in Franklin, Tennessee, Oxford, Mississippi, Birmingham, Alabama, Middleburg, Virginia, and Tuscaloosa, Alabama. Situated along the renowned Big Creek Flyway between DeWitt and Ethel, Arkansas, this 162-acre two-track hunting property offers an exceptional combination of prime waterfowl hunting and quality deer hunting in the heart of one of the most productive duck corridors in the region. The property boasts a diverse and dynamic wetland habitat, featuring a rich mosaic of cattails, willows, cypress trees, and buckbrush that naturally attract and hold ducks throughout the season. Whether you're chasing mallards or managing deer, at this property delivers on both fronts. For more information, visit LyleRealEstate.com or call us at 501-374-3411.

SPEAKER_00 24:59

Well, the uh the AGFC said the uh they said the dirty word out loud last week. What uh talking about the the draw that they are they haven't officially done it right? It's now it's it's proposed and it goes under comment period now. Is that right for St. Francis Sunken Lands?

SPEAKER_01 25:19

That's right. 30-day comment period. Um they'll make a decision. Or they I mean they could table it. They they could do a lot of things, but they'll they'll decide something at the August uh commission meeting, mid-August. So uh but yeah, and we have to draw we've seen them we've seen them table stuff before, but that's relatively rare, is it not? Yeah, usually it's uh it's something they're they're doing. They've uh yeah, they've got it on their mind that that's what they're doing. But yes, they have tabled some things.

SPEAKER_00 25:51

Comment period seems like a formality most of the time. Well, it is required. It is required by law.

SPEAKER_01 25:57

Yes, state laws. Um yeah. So and the Fed, you know, people don't realize this. The feds have to do it too. When they put those dates out, there's a con there's a public input period for the duck hunting dates. Um, you know, and obviously nationwide, when you know, the window of dates you're given. So uh it is it is by law, you gotta get public input, but you don't have to necessarily follow it.

SPEAKER_00 26:22

Well, and I'll say that too. I mean, I was kind of tongue-in-cheek about the formality, but the people that always complain about it obviously didn't get their way. So that's who that's who you're gonna hear. You're never gonna hear from the people that supported it. Oh, yeah, that was great. I'm glad they did, you know. It's yeah, you're right. It's the frustrated people that are the most vocal about things. Um uh, but what to me, one of the really interesting things, and I think this is worth worth mentioning, and it, you know, usually the commissioners kind of vote in lockstep, but we had uh almost like the Supreme Court, we had a dissenting opinion um that's worth mentioning. You want to talk about that? Yeah, it's uh that's a very rare thing.

SPEAKER_01 27:00

Usually they have um you know full support when they bring something to that to that point. Uh, you know, it's not just a uh committee discussion. It is brought in front of the commissioners to vote on, and usually it's it's even if they're not a hundred percent in support of, if it they're most of the way there, they'll they'll uh give a thumbs up vote on it. But yeah, Commissioner Philip Tappan, who we've had on the show before, he was in agreement with putting a draw in place, and uh, and the reason that they put the draw in at St. Francis is according to the Game of Fish, is there's an immense amount of pressure in this particular area. Now, St. Francis, the WMA is over 30,000 acres. This is a a 1,000-acre area uh of of the WMA. So it's not you know across the board at St. Francis. It's just a a very apparently a very highly uh populated uh intense pressure area on the WMA that they're gonna they're gonna put this draw in place. But he didn't, he wanted to in another effort to reduce the pressure in this area, he wanted to only allow four days of hunting in this particular thousand-acre area. And the other commissioners wanted seven days because they, you know, uh it's the mantra that they they've been on for a while, that that word opportunity, and they didn't want to take away opportunity. Uh, and I get it, you know, there's there's days some guys can hunt, and there's days other guys uh, you know, can hunt, and there's days you can't hunt. I can't get out there on a Wednesday or whatever. I gotta hunt the weekends and things like that. But they they were gonna put it to uh or what Commissioner Tappan wanted was a four-day and a three days arrest. Uh so nobody on this thousand-acre section. And the other commissioners didn't go for that. And so it was a 6-1 vote uh on that. But um, but anyway, so they're gonna uh have it out there for public comment. It's obviously gotten a lot of public comment. A lot of a lot of guys are fearful that this is just the uh canary in the coal mine of draws across the board, uh, which it may be. Uh, you know, you you'd be hard pressed and deny that there's some issues on our public shooting grounds, and it's and it's a lot of it's behavioral. I mean, there are some issues with infrastructure, there are some issues with the habitat, there are some issues with various things, and and not all of them you have to be in in agreement with how the game of fish is trying to manage it, but um there are there are issues, human issues on those those places, and and and uh by them going to this kind of system, to me, it says you guys can't manage it yourself, you can't control it yourself, so we're gonna step in and put put rules in place. And that's that's what this is.

SPEAKER_00 30:11

Yeah, and it's um you know, I think the writing has been on the wall since the first iteration of a non-resident limitation, you know, and that was whatever number of years ago. Golly, is that close to a decade ago now? Yeah, probably. Um yeah. Well, when they first started that, I think a lot of people, a lot of diehard resident public hunters that I knew were fearful. They're like, it's coming now. Like we this is just the first step to get to a draw. And I think most people that are fearful of that right now are probably justified in feeling that way because I think ultimately limitations on access are coming. As much as the game of fish is trying to increase opportunity and protect access, I think ultimately to I think there's got to be some guardrails put in place. I I think. Now I've gone back and forth on this, Brent. Uh, you know, I think early on I I've stood pretty pretty steadfast in saying that I think that you know, if we're gonna limit non-residents, we should limit residents as well. Um, and this draw system does that. But I'm beginning to change my thought on that. Uh I don't necessarily believe that quite as heavily anymore. Um, you know, and I've always used that beach reference, right? Like I want to be able to go to the beach and I want to be able to sit on the sand and sit in the chairs and not be kicked out because I don't live in Florida. But in the same breath, if I were to go to Florida and stay there for 60 days, if I stayed there two months of our my kids' summer vacation, chances are I own a place, right? Like I'm not gonna go rent a condo for two months. Right. And that's kind that's kind of what we're living with in Arkansas, right? Like we've got the the drive access is so easy. You know, we we've got hunters that are coming here, maybe they lease ground, maybe they hunt public, but they're hunting a huge chunk of days in the state of Arkansas. And I don't know, uh maybe that's a problem that we didn't foresee coming 40, 50 years ago. Um so this draw doesn't necessarily, I mean, I guess it addresses that in that location, but doesn't address it address it statewide. Now, I read a ton of comments on Facebook, right? And you've got one thing I saw over and over again, I saw multiple people say this exact statement, like, oh, you know, I hunt there 60 days a row, there's no pressure. The problem isn't us, the problem is the guy that hunts there 20 days out of the year, doesn't know what he's doing, he can't find ducks, so he ruins it for everyone else. I'm like, hang on, how hypocritical does that sound? We're talking about pressure in a small area, and it's not the guy that's there one out of three days, excuse me, it's not the guy that's there every single day, it's the guy that's there, you know, 30% of the time. That's that's where you're laying blame. And and I think that's where I've always stood on if we're gonna limit access to a specific area, then it needs to be both, because a lot of times, and even as a resident myself, I think us as residents are to blame for some of these pressure issues because we hunt it 60 days in a row and we don't think that that's an issue, we think the guy that comes in from out of state is the issue, so that's kind of a problem for me. Um but to to put a bow in this whole run-on sentence here, I I think a term license would fix a lot of these problems without going to a draw. Because the draw does a number of things, like you mentioned, you know, guys can only hunt certain days of the week, you know, you have those limitations, uh travel from even from out of state, right? Like, are you gonna get drawn? Are you not? There's so many things that that don't get fixed with a draw that I think a a term license would. Um I mean, this doesn't fix pressure and overcrowding the first week of the season, but let's say there was a spot, we know of one, that typically has water in the first split, right? And everybody wants to be there. Well, if you're buying a term license and that's the week that you can get and you want to come hunt there, then you still have that opportunity. You may not have the opportunity to hunt 60 days out of the year as a non-resident, but you can still get your premium days where you want them and when you want them if we went to a term license scenario versus just a draw scenario. Uh so anyway, I laid a lot out there on the table. I'll let you run with it now.

SPEAKER_01 34:47

Yeah, well, maybe explain, maybe explain term license. Uh, this would be similar to what Canada does, correct?

SPEAKER_00 34:53

Yeah, and and really that that whole thought process stemmed from that episode. Um, you know, we talked about that with Canada, and it was pretty eye-opening for me. Um, because I'd been against that, like steadfast. And listening to him explain it and talk about the problems with Americans coming over the border and staying there the entire time, you know, and it it really dawned on me because it's a different country, right? So that's kind of what I guess allowed my mind to start thinking that way. We don't have a right to go to Canada and hunt the whole year. You know, that's not ours. It's not, it's not America. So I understand how they feel about us crossing that border. And I started kind of thinking the same about non-residents. And I've got a look, I've got a ton of friends that are non-residents that are probably really angry at me for saying this right now. And I gotta say, like, this is a rough idea. Okay, so there's there are some caveats, be it landowner, uh, you know, if you're a non-resident working for a guide service, you know, like that's that's an issue, so uh a hurdle we'd have to clear. Um, but but essentially the same practice. Like instead of being able to buy a license for 60 days and hunt whenever, however, and as often as you want, a term license would just be a license that was good for whatever period of days a game of fish set on it. It could be 15, it could be 30, could be seven. We already do five-day trip license. We used to do a three-day at one point. Um, but yeah, instead of giving non-residents access to the entire season, you you give them a term, uh, I would assume way I would do it, allow them to choose their dates. Your your license is good from this day to this day. You can pick those days. If you're planning the trip, that's when your trip is, you know. Uh if you like hunting the week of Christmas, that's when you buy your license. Um, whatever. I think I would make it in I don't know. I mean, if you went 15 days, I guess you could split it up or you could maybe stop it once and start it again. Everything's electronic now, so it's not like enforcement's a big issue, right? I mean, you pull up their license, you're gonna see if it's valid that day or not. Um, but then you you're not simply closing one area and forcing somebody from a WMA to a refuge, uh from state to federal ground. I'll say that in a different way so people can understand. You're not just shifting pressure, you're actually limiting the pressure. Um and that's not to say that I I still think all of our WMA should be a free-for-all for residents either. But I I think the first to me, and somebody can uh would be happy to talk to someone who disagrees, I think a term license is the would be the bigger overall, more effective approach than small draws and you know these these sp and and I get it, like we're sampling, they're just trying this out, right? Like it's it's gonna end up elsewhere. This won't be the only one. Um but I think a term license overall would be a a better way to approach it, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_01 37:49

Yeah, well, yeah. I'm I wouldn't be surprised if that's an experiment someday at some level. I mean, the trick would be enforcement of it, of course, um, and managing that process, because you've got that. And then what do you do with someone that owns property in Arkansas? Where if they own a house uh, you know, there in McCrawy and they drive over to the Black Swamp and hunt, um, you know, and and they've got an they've got an ownership interest in the state. Um how does that factor into it? Uh, do you get some you get more days or something like that if you're a property owner and how much property do you have to own? Uh, that kind of thing. I don't know. It it'd be interesting to see you know how that would all kind of funnel uh and come out the other end with something that's a viable solution.

SPEAKER_00 38:45

Yeah, and you know, that's a very good hypothetical, right? Because we know that exists. Um, and a potential pitfall to that, let's let's say, let's say we allowed any non-resident landowner, okay. We have a we have a third license, okay? You have a non-resident landowner, and they are they're allowed to buy a year license. They can hunt whenever they want. Well, then you're gonna see a lot of people buying a tenth of an acre and setting a house trailer on it, you know, and that's gonna backdoor them in. So I would say maybe in that situation, if you're a non-resident landowner, you're allowed to hunt your land 60 days out of the year. If you're on public or other private, then you would fall back into that term license. But I do agree landowners should have protection. I'm just not sure exactly what it would look like. How do you how do you avoid the the downside? Because we know it already happens. People buy tiny plots of land to be a quote unquote resident. People are doing it. Um I think it would be obviously worse in this scenario.

SPEAKER_01 39:49

Yeah. Yeah, it would be uh it'd be an interesting um thing to sort through. There's just there's a lot of you know, I guess snags in it. Uh the draw is a little, I guess it's a little cleaner uh, you know, from that standpoint. Um you know, I've I've seen a lot of commentary too on this one about where they put the this this area that's going to be the draw. There's a there's a longtime historic duck club right in the middle of all that uh that that frankly has had some um I don't long standing uh disagreements with public land hunters that hunt in and around and on top of uh their private club. And you see this in some WMAs around, you know, right in the middle of the black swamp, there's private ground uh that hunters have to traverse, you know, via the river, the Cache River, to get from one area to another public area, they have to go right through the middle of public ground. And some of those places do have blinds on the river. And you know, I'm I can't tell you how many times, because one of them I've I've had the fortune, good fortune of being able to hunt quite a bit, especially when I was younger. Um you work you're starting to work a big group of ducks, and and we all know, you know, those river ducks come from can come from the stratosphere, and a boat will come motoring through, uh, you know, right running either up or down the river, uh, and those ducks are goofed up, uh, you don't even ever get a chance to get them, you know, over the decoy. So uh I am sure there have been some some knockdown drag out battles uh between that particular club and and the public land hunters up there, and I think there's some frustration or some anger from the public land guys that this draw spot just happens to be right in the same area of where this particular club is. And and maybe it is highly pressured because I know that club does pretty well and has for a long time. It's been around for literally forever. Um and that that could be a factor too. It's better hunting down in that area, and that's why the crowds are there. Uh, I don't know enough about it to wade into to all the details of it, uh, either on the the WMA side and how good the hunting is and uh you know whatnot, or this particular club and the history and the the disagreements that they've had. I just know they exist. Um I I I want to even say some of this has made it to the newspaper before over or over some of the stuff that they they've duped it out over. So that's an interesting part of this, too. That uh of all the WMAs in the state, that and there's a handful that are crowded. I mean, they're just crowded. You have to really work to get away from all the other guns and hunters. And they picked this one, and the area they picked is right next to this pretty high-end duck club that's got you know some influentials that are that are members of it. So that that's raised some eyebrows too. And and I could, I guess I could see that I don't know enough about their public versus private history there, but I know that's a factor in all this as well. The Standard Sportsman is brought to you by Noah Perry, financial advisor with Raymond James and Associates. Just like a successful day in the field starts with preparation and a solid plan, building a strong financial future takes clarity, discipline, and the right guide. Whether aiming for retirement goals, seeking professional investment management, or planning your children's future, contact Noah Perry at 501-313-7313 or send an email to noah.perry at raymondjames.com. Noah Perry with Raymond James, helping you plan with purpose.

SPEAKER_00 43:45

Duck Dogs Work Hard. Help yours perform at his best with Purina ProPlan. Outstanding nutrition with real meat as the number one ingredient, ProPlan Sport is made to feel hardworking dogs like yours. For increased endurance, joint support, and muscle tone, it all starts with pro plan sport. Yeah, there's a a lot of I guess a lot of things at play. And it and again, I think that's where I come back to the idea of a term license just kind of settling a lot of that. And I I understand how unpopular that will be for a lot of our listeners. And I get it. Again, not not too long ago I stood on that side of the fence that uh if we're going to limit it, it needed to be for everybody. And and I still I still feel that way to an extent. We need to limit you know some of these WMAs even even on the state side, the resident side. But I mean you look at uh you look at almost any place out west and residents do not have the same opportunity excuse me non-residents do not have the same opportunity as residents. And I know you can't really compare an elk to a duck but still yet it's a it's a natural resource. You know the the pressure the pressure is there. Too many hunters in too many places and too much going on and and not just from the duck standpoint. I mean look at the kicking and fighting and screaming and horse racing and foot racing we've transitioned into now I mean it's just a circus uh and I don't think that's what duck hunt is supposed to look like and it's not it's not just public. I mean you you can you can go out and go find any place private and go try to get a lease of any quality now and look at what you've got to compete with and pay for and just like you know we've talked about before I mean a lot of these leases aren't even it's not even a you know a couple dads and their sons it's somebody who who had enough investors to spend six figures and now it's turned into a business so they can turn a profit on it. Like is that what we wanted duck hunting to become when we talked about Canada that's exactly what they were experiencing it it just turned into big business everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 45:53

Yep it's it's it's a thing there's no doubt about it and you're you're exactly right the ability to have just a small group and maybe some friends or like you said father you know let's take his boys hunting and find a you know even halfway dependable lease man it's tough. I mean I've got a uh buddy he he's he he listens to this show um and and he's had the hardest time uh with leases and he is a uh bona fide duck hunter I mean uh and hunted some of the finest places there is and you know knows good from bad and everything else and and just cannot find a a lease that's worth paying what you got to pay now uh whether it's they don't manage the habitat well or even have a chance at ducks they don't put the water out timely don't put enough water out uh the owner also wants to hunt I mean just all kinds of little things that add up to big things and and make for a very frustrating frustrating experience. So yeah the fallback of having a a dependable public place to go hunt it's not necessarily there either and and that and that makes it really hard. I mean a lot of people just don't want to put up with all the all the stuff that goes on in there or the hard work it takes to get away from it and and that's tough. And you can go well you know you old guys y'all are spoiled and y'all just don't want to work for it. Well I mean yeah it it part of it that's what it is it's it's it's not supposed to be all of this it's just just like you alluded to it's this is not what duck hunting was uh for so long and how it's shifted to something else and it's really frustrated a lot of people and and that's um that's tough and and it's it's not great for our sport um not at all.

SPEAKER_00 47:46

No and I and I'm again trying to defend my thoughts here a little bit. I'm sure there's a ton of people that are that are listening and view you know the my opinion here as just being a hypocrite and I and I get it you know we've run a guide service for over 70 years and this thought process is in no way or attempt to uh to try to get more customers I've I've got all that I want I don't have space I've been turning people away for a long time um so that's not it I just look around and everything around is it's an outfitter you know it's it's a club it's gone are the days that you just you know a couple guys got together two or three guys and leased a field and then they had fun and enjoyed it like those are just it's all it's all clubs are outfitters everywhere you go around me and you we've just we've carved out the little guy it's just there's no access for him anymore and you know we're talking about this this term term license thought uh you know you and I've said it and I've said it probably more been more outspoken about it um I don't think you should be able to run a guide service unless you own the property. I I don't think that's an unreasonable thing. You know that would cut down on a bunch of this stuff. I'm sure that'll piss some people off and I know that you know it's easy for me to say because we own property but never once have I thought man I should go lease that field. I could do this many hunts I could I could pay for it and then we wouldn't have neighbors over there. Like that's never that's never been a legitimate thought of mine. Like I just it's not how we operate. So but I I don't know I you know again going back to that Canada episode if you guys haven't heard it you need to go back and listen to it because it was pretty it hit home to me in a lot of ways but I think we've got a problem um I think it's really coming to a head here in the last few years you know the the more you see on social media these guys go out and and develop these properties and build these you know these names for themselves the more other people want to do it and it's happening a lot you know and you think it's bad now wait wait 15 more years and see what what kind of access the average guy has it's not gonna be there.

SPEAKER_01 50:03

No it's not it's not it's gonna be tough. Uh and if the if the public ground doesn't turn itself around that that's gonna continue to decline either it's not going to magically come back not with the the the actions that take place in those places and and uh the realization I don't I think there's a lot of people in the public woods that don't know what it's like for it to be good in the public woods. So they they choose uh how do I say this the they choose actions that aren't to benefit ducks but they either benefit them social media wise they bent benefit them for uh boat ramp cred uh whatever you want to call it and whether that's riding around their boat whether it's shot chasing whether it's uh trying to hunt 30 people you know what all these things that that add up to be non-conducive for quality duck hunting and the the ability to realize that the state is having to put this draw in place here and try some of these walk-in areas and some of the other ones is they're trying to put some you know some guardrails around what's going on so the hunting doesn't continue to decline and get to a point where this isn't even worth our upkeep. And some people will say well they don't keep up with it anyway. Well that I mean that's the debatable uh if you've ever spent any time trying to manage a piece of ground it's not a cheap endeavor and you gotta think of the you know if you're talking about 38,000 acres of biomeda you're talking 3000 acres of St. Frank you can keep adding all that up but that's a lot and and contrary to people's belief they they don't get a lot of money from the state to keep all this up from from taxes. They got other at least state taxes so they got other ways that money comes into the Game Fish Commission and it's they got to spend it wisely uh so I say all that uh to to circle back to there really needs to be a shift of of some cultural things and and maybe some less commercialization of the sport to to prevent it from getting out of reach for the you know the regular guy because the this is going on not only in Arkansas. I I've got friends in Kansas that speak of these very same topics you you're hearing it in Oklahoma. I mean you're hearing it everywhere that ducks like to congregate you're hearing the same stories over and over again of of the human part of it uh just is out of control and and if it's not fixed you you can expect to see more draws. There'll be it uh your favorite boat ramp too this St. Francis deal might be the precursor to that just because duck hunters are really bad at policing themselves and and they've the game of fish I guess has decided they need to draw a line in the sand and that's that's where they are with this and we'll see if it continues to go uh proliferate to other other WMAs over time.

SPEAKER_00 53:20

Yeah I don't I don't see how it doesn't honestly um I think everyone knew this was coming even though they were surprised and it did I think everybody would tell you yeah this is they've been working their way there.

SPEAKER_01 53:33

And amazingly I don't I don't know any hunters that really are like yeah draws are good you know no one's happy about it but uh but there there wasn't any much of any ability or effort to police themselves either so it's uh just uh it's a sign of where we're at as duck hunters um can't get out of our own way a lot of times yeah that's that's a good way to put it uh and then when you know rules and and things get put in place to try to to you know slow it down or or stop it then it's a it's an infringement on on bad behavior. I mean that's that's what it is. This is yeah you know yeah there are guys that go obviously go out there and hunt the right way and and appreciate the duck for what it is and and know you can't go out there and you know do some of the things every single day you got to give them a break you gotta can't stay out there all day you can't motor through a raft of duck you know all the th all those things there's there's there are guys out there we're just seeing the knuckleheads really throw a monkey wrench in all this and that's how draws come about um because you can't control the knuckleheads yeah serious waterfowl management isn't about reacting day to day it's about making better decisions every season create the X is a waterfowl land management app built for the real work in the field. It's not meant to replace your journal or notebook it allows you to access your past management history in real time right in the field. Track water movement, log field work and GPS overlays, mark blinds, drop land damage pins, and record equipment maintenance documented by location and date so nothing gets lost over time. Instead of flipping through pages you can reference past seasons directly on the map while you're standing there, giving you clear management history to guide future decisions. From your first field to the farthest fence line manage it smarter with CreateTheX. Learn more at creathex.com available now in the App Store and Google Play. Waterfowl Management Academy was built to turn passion into stewardship. With over 75 years of combined wetland management experience at the private, state and federal level our biologist team helps landowners build better habitat and hold more ducks. From the management community and course library to one-on-one coaching they give you clear practical tools to manage with confidence through every season WMA is for landowners who believe their property is about more than just a place to pull the trigger it's about building habitat that gives back to the ducks and strengthens the resource for everyone. If that sounds like you visit Waterfowl Management Academy and become a member today.

SPEAKER_00 56:18

Well I'm gonna I'm gonna shift gears a little bit here uh I sent you something about Nebraska and their splash limit the other day and you and I kind of had a little bit of a conversation about that you know and and when Anne Marie was on here she talked about uh I guess her I don't want to say need but uh she talked about the the plus side of a two-hand limit being there for for the individual who maybe couldn't identify or or didn't know you know it was just kind of there to protect that person. And when I saw this on the outdoor wire I thought man you know why why is that not something that we're talking about a little bit more this this idea of a splash limit. So um real quick walk us through what it is and you don't have to get in the details of species and all that but just walk us through the over overview of it and then let's get into why it might be a good idea.

SPEAKER_01 57:15

Yeah well this has been South Dakota's been doing this and you elect before the season whether you want to do the traditional six duck limit you know like we're we're all familiar with the four mallards and two something else's or six something else's whatever or you can choose to do a three ducks per day um with no restrictions on species or gender uh and they call it the the the three splash rule so uh if you elect that route and you don't get to change you you you you go into the season this is how this is how I'm gonna hunt this season because they they have surveys and logbooks and things that you have to keep up with uh because they're trying to do all this but um and Nebraska now has adopted it uh and it'll be interesting to see how many other states kind of continue to add to the roster that are doing this but uh but yeah it's that simple you can shoot you can go out there and shoot three hens three mallard hens if you wanted to um I believe is how it worked it could be three of any species and three of any sex and that but that's you're three you don't get to shoot six you you stop at three um so if you shoot two wood ducks and a and a teal you're done uh you you can imagine any combo you want but uh that's what it is and Nebraska is now adopting it so I guess um you know South Dakota's experiment has next now spread out to some other other places.

SPEAKER_00 58:39

Yeah and I'll admit when South Dakota first came up with it uh I kind of scoffed at it like man who what why um but I I'm again I I guess I'm getting older I don't know if I'm getting smarter but I'm definitely getting older um I see the merit I see the merit to it if if and only if you we took the six duck and we put one hen on it like if you're gonna if you're gonna elect to shoot six then then you're you know you're saying that you're comfortable identifying ducks you're you're you know you're uh you have the ability to do so all right well if you're gonna do that then then don't kill two hens let's give you one hen mallard and kill oh three drakes uh and then you're two bonus ducks whatever um that's uh I I would be upset if we did anything but that because I think there's got to be you know the give and take right like if you're gonna let me take this three splash and shoot three hen pentails then the others on the other side that that are saying that they have the ability to identify birds should should give a little uh and then I think that's an area where Arkansas Game of Fish could could then kind of stand and and say look we're gonna give you the opportunity you can do whichever one you want but if you're going this way this is the more conservative you get to kill six ducks but you're you're conservative at least on the hen side and I think that'd be a win win and be a really good uh example to set I guess for the game of fish Arkansas Game of Fish or or any any other state that wants to jump out there and do it.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:08

Yeah yeah and apparent uh apparently Minnesota's uh seeking feedback on on adding that option too so you you're starting to see some more states and I think uh a a key thing to point out is is we tend to think of all duck hunters are are like we are um you know maybe been doing a long time uh routinely successful you know what however you want to phrase that a lot of them aren't a lot of them are new to the sport they don't or or they only hunt a couple times a year or it's something they go you know on a weekend when their their buddy invites them and and they love being at duck camp hunting's you know maybe not that high on their priority list but they they'll do it um you know here and there you know hunt less than 10 times a year there's plenty of guys out there that do that and so not everybody has to feel like they need to go out there and and shoot six ducks and and chase them maybe as hard as you do or I do or you know our peers do and maybe what you see on social media and things like that. There's some guys out there that's just yeah we shoot a few that's great that's that's fun day I just enjoy being in the woods with y'all or enjoy being a duck camp with y'all. So this allows that guy to uh you know shoot whatever he wants to shoot to to have some success and you never know what it may lead to it may lead to someone that uh maybe takes it a little more seriously going forward and gets more into the sport and learns the nuances of it and the how-tos and what's good what's bad about it versus just kind of being a a guy that shows up you know a couple times a year so it may do do us well um in and you're gonna you know people are gonna say well we don't need any more duck hunters we got too many as it is and that's probably really not the case probably what we have is too many of the previously mentioned knuckleheads that are uh kind of causing the causing the trouble uh if you had everybody out there you know trying to do things ethically and and morally and and good neighbor all that kind of stuff we probably wouldn't be talking about a lot of this this this stuff um but we got too many people that don't so you never know what this leads to as far as introducing somebody new to the sport or not really all the way both feet in on it they have some success under this three splash rule uh and and they evolve into to want to do it more uh it's kind of like going out and maybe playing golf a couple times and then you stripe a couple balls down the fairway and you're like oh well maybe I'll start taking some lessons and you know maybe I'll upgrade my clubs um instead of these ones I got at Walmart and and you learn to be a better golfer. What it could be the same it could have the same effect from a duck hunting standpoint.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:59

Yeah I would think so um and I don't want to speak for you know all hunters that hire or go hunt with a guide and I don't want to speak for all my clients but I would think a majority of of my clients would would welcome a three splash limit. You know man it makes life a lot easier in a group like that versus trying to to worry about which one you've killed and all it just you know takes a lot of pressure off people like that. So again I thought it was kind of a a silly idea at first and then thought it was kind of a novel idea and now I think man it's not uh not such a bad idea. Doesn't and I've not looked at any of their data to see you know how they feel like it's affecting harvest or not but uh it doesn't seem to be any downside to it. Again I would absolutely caveat that the the six duck on our side should have one mallard hen. Like we we were so close to getting that done you know uh I think the commission had the votes and they changed their mind on it. I think a lot of people on there are in favor of that. I mean even Anne Marie herself said that you know in her place they try to just shoot one. So if we're gonna give people the opportunity you know to to shoot three of anything then let's let's offset it on the other side. But uh but I like the idea I I would I would be okay with us trying it out.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:20

Yeah I can definitely see it from a from an outfitter standpoint of of trying that uh route um but even with kids or with kids yeah with kids that's a that's a great point um because you kind of see it from the speckle belly standpoint the the spec guides much prefer two in a limit ver over three um for all kinds of reasons but uh I I as a hunter I don't think I would enjoy um I or I don't enjoy two in a limit but I'm not also out there trying to hunt eight ten twelve twenty fifty guns either um you know limit of two for a um my myself my dad and my boys that got that can hunt go can go by real fast um yeah so that I mean there's there's that part of it but this is a you know this is a selection deal you get to choose um so you're not forced to go you know shoot two uh like we are in speckle bellies because that's what Arkansas's doing right now you you get to choose so if you want to be the six six duck limit guy you can be and if it's six teal uh you got a spot that's really good in teal that's what it is but um I I I think it's a matter of time before you see more states uh at least offer it um because it's um I mean what what can it hurt? Um it it's not forcing it down everybody's throat that now you can only shoot three it's it's your choice and yeah I think it would be great great for for kids. Because then they would feel it's the same it goes back to that maybe get more um engaged in the sport because they go out and they have success. You know, if if three is their is their limit, they get three, they feel like, all right, yeah, I got a limit today. Right. This is exciting. This is fun. Not that not that that has to be everything in and all that, but we do, we're hunters. We like to go out there and shoot stuff. But you do feel you like you've reached this your goal today was to shoot a limit and you got there. And it makes me want to do it again versus everybody ended up half you know the kids shot four boxes of shells and everybody killed a couple of ducks. You know you got you got that whole scenario too. So I think it could it could make people feel like they had a little sense of accomplishment and may lead them to more engagement with with the sport versus just showing up being a shooter all the time.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:53

Yeah sorry I've got sidetracked my own thoughts there, but I I mean you're talking about limits and yeah you know we we we joke about that and you know make fun of some of the braggadocious behavior we see online and social media and all that stuff. But at the end of the day, I mean that that that's kind of how we measure success right and that's so it made me start thinking about teal season blue wing teal early teal season is a good example. I I don't enjoy the six duck limit any more than I did the four duck limit of early teal. Matter of fact I I'd rather go back to four uh has nothing to do with their population size. It was just you you reach that bar of success a little easier. Um killing two more doesn't make it more fun for me. Um which then made me think about the Arkansas Game of Fish and and the fact that we have to start at legal sunrise not 30 minutes before like so many other states in their early teal season and it just baffles me uh why we why we elect to do that I guess it's the same thought process with two hens is right it's like oh you can't ID the bird so you can't start early and we'll let you kill two because you're not smart enough to figure it out.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:05

Yeah. Well it's kind of a applying to the lowest common denominator it is.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:11

But it's tough about early teal man by the time it's you know legitimate sunrise they're done flying like you you've missed yeah that window of buzzing your decoys and you know anyway I think we should we really should cultivate that a little more the early teal season I know not everyone goes and does it and and whatever you know but it's also it's kind of like a dove hunt you know for a lot of ways it's a it's a kid's first introduction to duck hunting uh because it's not cold they don't have to have waiters you know it's a little easier to get to and do it and and if you've got them man alive is it fun uh so we really should lean into making that as good as it can be for young hunters and get them into the sport and enjoying the sport. But that's a whole nother conversation for another day.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:57

Yes it is but you're right there there's some truth to that uh for sure I'm not a teal guy I definitely will not be a teal guy this year because where we would how to hunt them and where they would be we saw about a three or four foot alligator in there uh last weekend or last week about a week ago today uh so uh no thanks or uh are you guys in the in an area for a permanent hunt for alligators yeah oh yeah yeah yeah yeah um I'm not sure I want to do that either but uh because you know where there's a three or four footer there's a mom mama gator not far away and our uh the farm below us that we drain into they told us back in the spring that they saw her and she had some babies uh but we've we've never seen them on us um yeah but uh sure enough we went uh I was with my older son and we were checking a pipe uh and we were standing over uh up high on the levee and you walk down to get on a catwalk to go out to the screwgate on this pipe and we look over and there's there's smart weed growing along the edge of the the ditch bank and right there at the edge of the ditch bank you could see his two eyeballs right above the water level and his and his nose sticking out the front. So we stood there for a minute we're like and we didn't neither one of us had our phone so we couldn't take a picture and then as we continue to talk and point and you know that that there's no doubt that's a gator you see him sink straight down and then you see all those bubbles come up and like he got nervous he got nervous and let all the air out and went went underwater and then we didn't see him again but I can uh I didn't know teal hunt going on there yeah I was gonna say I can only imagine what our friends to the south are thinking right now about you know just one three footer uh they deal with that stuff but at the same time you know when it gets cold they uh they don't do well with that either so we all have our our they all have our cost to bear that's true that's true but yeah yeah well I mean you're just hearing a lot more reports about them being seen than what what you used to um they're just much I don't know if they got displaced during uh you know a real high water year and it it put them in some places and then they just stayed or what but uh you hear more and more people I mean I've seen friends have sent me pictures of them you know big big gators uh walking you know down rice field levees uh yeah and and um this is all this is all in Arkansas County uh so Sutgard area um but they're all over the place and I know our neighbor um the club to our east just across across by me to the the actual waterway he's he's got a bunch of them and he's got some big ones um he takes a lot of photos of them but uh I knew they were in the area I just didn't really get real excited about him being in our ditch sure that was not uh not what I wanted to see but I guess you know I guess it was bound to happen yeah you know I I guess it's one of those things it's kind of like uh I don't know maybe like Bob White Quail in a sense uh they're a they're kind of a success story right just overhunted over pressured uh figure that out and they've been slow to rebound but if you if you look and and do a little reading on them I think kind of that Memphis to Little Rock line was historically where they existed and even slightly north of that but due to the winters and everything else they're just really really slow to recover.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:35

So when when man came in and just hammered them, you know they've been a long time getting over that. But uh we're not very far north of you but I I fully expect in my lifetime we'll we'll have them as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:46

But uh I mean we might as well we got fire ants now too so just shit bring it all yeah I had a I ran across a pile of those in my front yard this morning. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:59

Yeah another another beautiful story I think there's uh there's this guy I'll have to send you one of his clips from Facebook but he's the I maybe the head entomologist at Mississippi State very uh colorful character but he's pretty entertaining anyway I'll send you Jerome Goddard may be his name anyway he was talking about fire ants the other day and I guess there's three three species of fire ants in the southern U.S. and only one of them is native like the is it two different invasive species of fire ants or non-native anyway and I was like well that checks out when mankind does a really good job of ruining things by bringing in stuff that doesn't belong here. No kidding no kidding yeah we've got snakehead fish uh in in our waterway here and I'll be honest with you I might would rather be in the water with a gator than a fish that can live on dry land and crawl across the dirt. I know aren't those things creepy they're just something alien about them.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:55

I I don't like being around them no not at all and obviously another invasive species that can't get rid of it fast enough. Yep yep so we'll uh we'll I'll bump us on along on our topics here uh they also announced a ten dollar fee for is this just anybody using the referees non non-hunters is that right yeah uh non-conceptive uh if you're a non-conceptive user of a state wildlife management area they're gonna start charging you ten dollars and fifty cents for a usage fee uh not not each one you go to one time one time a one time fee but which is no different than what our hunting license costs um yeah and I I've seen I've seen a lot of uh people just irate over this uh which is mind blowing to me it is right I mean because the first thing I said to you is I'm all for it I mean it's non-consumptive users they're they're still using the refuge the same as anybody else like what this is a no-brainer yeah it's it it just it's nuts and to think you know and we're we're at a really odd spot in Arkansas you know they've tried to raise the hunting license and and people I think are blurry on how the game and fish is funded and that's a that's a whole nother episode it's too much to get into here but license sales are a a big piece of it and of course they do get dollars from Pittman Roberts Act and which when you buy a firearm or bullets or other sporting equipment you get some you get some dollars uh from from the tax related to that but as far as money from the state of Arkansas it it's not that much so you know it's always this stance you know I'm taxpayer you you're basically double taxing me which is not true and and this the situation also is it's really expensive to run these properties and run this that that agency and I'm not saying saying they spend all their money right and I'm not saying every everything they choose to spend dollars on is what they need to spend it on but this this haziness over um uh over some of that is is kind of tough and and to push back on a ten dollar and fifty cent fee to come use something that costs the agency a lot of money to keep up that that's just hard for me to to wrap my brain around because if they tried to raise the resident hunting license and have failed miserably on that the legislator the legislation in Arkansas will not allow them to do that. I think because they don't want people their constituents coming to them and saying why are you raising my hunting my $10 something or $25 hunting license why are you coming why are you coming asking me for more money y'all don't spend it right anyway they don't do you know St. Francis they don't do the WMA right um and and all this other jazz so to think you know how far if you raise the license a little bit how far those dollars would go and what they could spend it on if they spend it right what they could spend it on to improve someone's experience but to have somebody that comes and uses a state property that is maintained by the gaming fish to ask them for $10 and fifty cents one time per year and to push back on that just makes no sense to me because somebody will go spend that at at Sonic on their way home. I mean it's it's ten dollars and fifty cents but there are people that are just flat out irate about it.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:31

Uh yeah it I just I don't understand it I don't understand why the logic uh I don't know it evades me I mean even in and you and I kind of discussing this to talk about it today like I I didn't have much to say like it's just I why why would you be upset about it and how and how do you jump to those conclusions I mean I don't I don't know why this would indicate that anybody's broke or whatever. I mean it's just you know we we've long known that a lot of the PR dollars come from non-consumptive users they don't come from hunters so you know on that side of it they're carrying a huge burden uh of the funding on that side but on the WMA level like yeah it should be the same as anybody else I mean they're they're going out there the same way that you are I mean not with the service tribe but you know what I mean yeah well I I think it's just something to to post with the gaming fish.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:29

They're I mean they're about something and that's right and this is just something something else. Because if you own a hunting license you don't have to pay that this is just people that were previously using say the bird watch or canoe or you know whatever these other activities are they were relying on the state to maintain it and and make it usable for them but they but they were doing it without any kind of fee. They could just show up and do and do it. Well maintenance costs of those places is expensive. And I think it comes into the uh it circles around to people don't trust that the gaming fish is managing or spending the money right to start with. So this is just another way they feel like they're getting gigged for money that they again will think they're gonna spend it wrong. They're gonna use it on something you know something else or not you know salary I saw one where it was on you know they maxed out everybody's salary they have they probably have done that our Arkansas Game of Fish's salary pool is low, low low that's why they lose people that's uh why um all kinds of things so to think that they're they're maxed out and pay all their their upper management a whole bunch of money is ludicrous. Yeah I it it that is just not true. They they have very um on the on the scale if you looked at other states and what maybe their executive director makes or or some of these other uh higher positions you'd find out that Arkansas's probably way down there um so that's that's not where the money's going um now you you can question whether whether they've spent it right on some of the WMAs or not uh that that's fine but I just think it goes into salaries I think that's that's uh really really off base but yeah I think people just feel like they don't spend the money right anyway so why are you asking for more um yeah and and why are you relying on the people that you're already you're already taxing to to fund your organization.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:34

Well yeah and I get that you know I mean anytime you increase taxes you're gonna you're gonna get a lot of pushback but the the problem is to me a lot of the the outcry you're hearing is coming from people that aren't that aren't involved they're not paying the $10 and 50 cent whatever it's not it doesn't apply to them but they're still pissed about it.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:51

Yeah that's right that's right. Speaking of of outrage we you know we kind of in our last episode kind of glanced over the uh the time change or potential time change lack thereof whatever man have you ever seen so much conversation in the hunting world about something like that I I I guess I uh underestimated how upset people were about it on both sides of the fence yeah it's it's really interesting I I've kind of quit paying attention to it a little bit because it you know I had this this groundswell of of momentum with the House of representatives passing it and then it's I don't know it hasn't caught as many headlines since so I I honestly don't even know where it stands with the Senate whether that's got any momentum or not there's so many other things that that dominate headlines uh that that I've kind of lost track of it a little bit but I figured if the Senate was really fired up about it we'd be we'd be hearing it because if they pass it just like we said on the show if they pass it it's it's a done deal because it sounds like Trump but Trump's Trump's changed his mind on signing some other stuff so uh you know last minute that uh you thought he was gonna gonna sign no problem and then he had a quid pro quo tied to it that he'll sign it if so I don't know um but yeah it's it's there's a lot of debate on it and and all that and I mean what are we gonna do? I mean if they decide to do it it it is what it is. Now I guess you could lobby Arkansas government to not do it if if they decided to do it at a federal level and we decide to be one of the states that didn't because you can do that.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:37

Maybe so but it was just interesting to me all the personal preference but then I ran across a bunch of comments about how it was going to affect whatever game species they were hunting. I mean I one of them one guy was talking about like pheasants and was basically implying that it would be bad for the population of pheasants because they would the time change they would I don't know they it would be on the roost or away or something I was like you realize that they still move based on sunrise we're just changing the number we associate with sunrise like you you're off your rocker man like you could prefer not to start hunting like whatever you you could have a an opinion on which way you want the time to be but the the wildlife doesn't care they don't know what time it is no uh they don't that was they don't that was the most unnerving thing to me right like there and there was tons of those comments and I'm like do you hear yourself like have you really thought this out um but yeah I I never expected to see that all over my feed like it was last week but man it was everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:42

It was it definitely was um yeah I guess we'll just we'll sit by and see what happens with that one. It'll be goofy uh if it does go through and that's what we're we're forced to adapt to but we'll figure it out yeah it'll I I'll I'll be honest I think I said again I'm I mean I'm for it I'm fine with it uh it would be the start times would be a little awkward at first but it's not something I care enough about to uh to take to Facebook and wage war over it that's what I'm that's what Facebook has turned into I can't I I have a really hard time getting on anymore it is just what side what name the topic what side of the fence you on and can we just go back and forth and and we're all experts against the wall oh experts experts started with started with virology and it's whatever you name it constitutional law we're all experts yep yep yeah it's uh it's something it it I mean but it truly is it's to the point where I rarely get on it um I just I kind of scan it to see what my friends are doing that I don't you know I'm not around all the time and and all that but man I I definitely do not wade into those discussion groups and you know that lob intentionally lob topics out there to start the start the the uh engagement debate yeah yeah all about engagement that's right who is the smartest guy in the chatroom it's not me uh not me either and I don't desire to be no I'm clear on that well that's about all I got yeah till till next week find something else to discuss that's right we'll come we'll come up with something but then and as we get closer to duck season we'll start getting the guests back on it's a little hard this time of year everybody's wrapping up their summers and and the you know the topics we'd like to save till duck season are a little closer to so we'll get back to that but hopefully these these these talks are at least keeping you up to speed on what's going on that you may not run across in your day to day uh but are gonna impact the sport in one way or another. So if anything maybe we're doing that. One can only hope right right that's right that's right. All right well if you're at uh the Ducks Unlimited expo uh coming up here at the end of July and in the first it's that uh June 30th or July 30th through August 2nd uh there in Memphis uh if you you happen to catch us uh don't hesitate to to walk back by and say hi we'll be recording like I said two to three on Saturday uh there in the Ducks Unlimited has a a studio slash you know podcast booth whatever you want to call it and we'll be recording there and we'll be having some some guests on and and some friends of ours in the industry that will be there that we don't get to see face to face very often. In fact Casey and I don't even get to see each other face to face. So it'll be our second time we'd ever record in the same room but uh but we'll be there and if you're there stop by by and say hi. Appreciate you listening. We'll check you next time