Poultry Keepers Podcast

Improving Production In Barred Rocks-Part 2

• Carey Blackmon, Jeff Mattocks and Jason Yuke • Season 3 • Episode 124

Share episode

In this continuation of our in-depth series, host Carey Blackmon is joined by Jeff Mattocks and breeder Jason Yuke as they dive even deeper into Jason’s project to restore production quality in his Barred Plymouth Rocks. From managing harsh climates and selective breeding setbacks to measuring feed conversion, temperament, and thriftiness, this episode offers invaluable insights into the real-world challenges and breakthroughs of small-scale poultry improvement.

Jason discusses genetic bottlenecks, feed errors, managing aggression, breeding for uniformity, and how to identify pivotal "aha" moments when a breeding plan starts to pay off. He also shares advice for new breeders, insights on choosing birds suited to your climate, and the importance of setting clear, long-term goals before selecting your foundation stock.

Plus, we talk about culling practices, chick evaluations, and how Jason is working toward an "Ontario Barred Rock" that thrives in his cold Canadian climate while maintaining productivity and heritage breed standards.

Whether you're a seasoned poultry breeder or a small flock owner just getting started, this episode is packed with tips and perspective that will help you move your flock forward.

To listen now and subscribe for more episodes on poultry breeding, nutrition, and flock management go to www.thepoultrykeeperspodcast.com 

#PoultryKeepersPodcast #PoultryKeepers360 #ShowProFarmSupply #BarredRockBreeding #HeritageBreedImprovement #SmallFlockSuccess #DualPurposeChickens #FlockManagement #HomesteadPoultry #ColdClimateChickens #CompensationMating #PoultryBreedingTips #EggProductionBreeds

You can email us at - poultrykeeperspodcast@gmail.com
Join our Facebook Groups:

Poultry Keepers Podcast -
https://www.facebook.com/groups/907679597724837
Poultry Keepers 360 - - https://www.facebook.com/groups/354973752688125
Poultry Breeders Nutrition - https://www.facebook.com/groups/4908798409211973

Check out the Poultry Kepers Podcast YouTube Channel -
https://www.youtube.com/@PoultryKeepersPodcast/featured

Alex:

Welcome to another episode of the Poultry Keepers Podcast. In today's episode Jeff Mattocks, Carey Blackmon, and Jason Yuke conclude their discussion on Jason's project to improve production in his flock of Barred Plymouth Rocks. So let's join them where they left off last week. So there's nothing,

Carey Blackmon:

so tell us about it. Some unexpected roadblocks that you might have. Either they be genetic or logistical.

Jason Yuke:

Oh, look, I would say logistics are are tight here. Just what Jeff was saying in our climate's, tough even in April and May this year, it was too cold. I didn't wanna, I, it was just, it was really just too cold. I would've had to have been home that the eggs were freezing. So I've got a very small window to breed these birds. And so when it's go time, you, I, you have to acclimate the birds. You gotta put them in there for three weeks before you actually start collecting eggs. So I usually put them in April mid-May. I start. Collecting them for hatching and you do two, three weeks of collecting eggs and hatching them. And then it's just what what Jeff and I were just talking about. By the time you, you get the you get the birds up to 50% weight and you get into you get into October and you're starting to get flurries and you're, they are feathered out enough to be resilient. But but they spend a little bit more time in the coop getting outta the cold weather. But it I don't lose many birds at all to that. But I would say logistically that would be the most challenging that's the most challenging endeavor around your area.

Carey Blackmon:

Okay. That makes sense. Let's see. How do you balance performance with things like temperament, thriftiness, seasonal heartiness, and feed conversion?

Jason Yuke:

Aha. I don't put up with a lot of a lot of nonsense in the in the hen house we did buy these to put in the stew pot and honestly, a small story about, about aggression, breeding aggression. For some reason I had a recessive gene that came back on me and it, it had a batch of of roosters. And I actually didn't use any of them. I called them all. They just got more aggressive. More aggressive. More aggressive to the point where, you're trying to sneak around. The vehicles so you can get to the chicken coop, so you won't get, you won't get stung from behind. I don't put up with that too often. There's really a zero chance policy for aggression or aggression around here just because we, the kids and we don't need it. Food conversion, I really started to start. Paying a little bit more attention to that. And that was that's on my on my list of improvements. I'll be honest with you, I've got this year, the reason why I say that we had some eggs that got outta hand and and there was a combination of overfeeding and a little bit too much protein. In, in, in the feed. And that was in my the problem developed in my breeding boxes. And it happened real quick. I always wanted a, the standard says a mid-size egg, I call that a 60 ounce egg, 57, 60 ounce or 60 gram a I'm sorry. And all of a sudden I go out one day and 1 65 and okay. And then the other one's 67 and I'm going. Maybe they just had a good time, right? Maybe. And it, I dunno what's going on here. And then you go out the next day and the 1 67 and 1 68. Within a week I was pushing some 70 gram s. And I got I got on on Messenger with Jeff and Jeff says, how much you feeding him? And I'm going. I hate to tell this guy, he's a nutritionist guy that I don't know, but I really don't know. Yeah. And he goes you need to cut that down to about three ounces real fast. And I did. And believe it or not, it didn't take more than a week. And everything straightened itself back out. So I have cut back considerably. And I do have, I do measure now per bird. And I found that they got a little bit ory at the three ounces, so I'm closer to the, Jeff told me they would I'm a little bit closer to the to the three and a half, four ounce per bird, but it seems to be, everything seems to be balanced and supplement them. I just kept Jeff said, go buy a couple bales of Alfal and throw it in the pen and. That seemed to take their mind off the food and give them something to do while they were in the breeding boxes. When they're free ranging, there's no problem. They seem to get enough on free range.

Carey Blackmon:

So is there any specific moment or breakthrough moment in your breeding program that really stands out where you just looked and said, aha, I think I figured this out. I think it

Jason Yuke:

was this I think it was the F five hatch. The F five hatch. I bred father back to a bunch of daughters and a mother back to a son. And I think on my F five Carrie, I seen more uniformity, like I pay attention to which, and I mark them. I've got a red pen, a yellow pen, a green pen. But I think if I would've mixed them up this time, I would've been in real trouble. I wouldn't have been able to tell what came from what and when I said that, when I thought that you'd pick it up, you'd weigh it. Oh, that one's seven point. That one's seven pounds, and that one's 7.3 pounds and that one's 6.9 pounds. It's ah we're onto something. I think the F five, I just stuck with the pro for the program. I listened to you guys. And I bred and got rid of a few. You're not gonna get rid of them all. A few recessive genes. And I think I'm getting into more. Okay. I got the bird where I want it physically, and now I work on a little bit of aesthetics. Feathering,

Carey Blackmon:

Coloration. All right. Things like that. All right. With that, hang on, we'll be right back.

We would like to take a short break to express our appreciation to the Trail Company for their sponsorship of the Poultry Keepers 360 Live programming for Trail has been a trusted name and sustainable farming and poultry nutrition for decades, and their commitment to providing high quality natural product aligned perfectly with the values we hold there in our poultry community. Thank you Patrell for partnering with us to empower poultry keepers everywhere. We're truly grateful for your dedication and support.

Carey Blackmon:

So there's lots of folks out there that are new to breeding. The last few years it's been a really big craze. A lot of people that sell hatching eggs or chicks or whatever have really seen a huge uptick in that. Obviously some of them people are probably feeling overwhelmed or whatever. What advice would you give someone that wants to improve their own birds? Just to improve them and make'em better for the homestead?

Jason Yuke:

Educate yourself and don't be afraid to I'm not speaking for anybody, but don't be afraid to reach out to people like I'll volunteer me. Probably you guys. The mistakes we've made, I've made personally, the mistakes I've made in selections and just little things you do wrong could save them years and years and years of working the birds to get them to where they need to be. Get, read some books. I don't know if you're if they wanna get into the standards that deep. But handle your birds. That's another big thing. Don't be afraid to pick them up. They're not porcelain. You can, you feel them, shove your fingers into places since you around muscles and back and learn what a good bird is and what a bad bird is. And I think that would be a good starting point. Know the difference of. Or know where you want to go. I've seen I did it myself. I spent a couple years not knowing where I wanted to go with the birds, and I went nowhere.

Carey Blackmon:

When I first met rip I was asking him some questions like that and he's, he just kept saying what are your goals? And, I would think about it and we'd keep talking and he finally said, listen you really need to think about and figure out what your goals are because what your goals are for your birds, we'll dictate the direction you need to go and everybody's different. And I was like, man he's onto something. And it's forced me to think and stop and sit back and look and listen, which I know that's something that we really don't, we want to think that we've got it under control, but we always don't.

Yeah. When,

Carey Blackmon:

if you look at, if you said you were on F five now if you go back to F1, when you first got the birds that you have now that you're working with. What's something that you changed your mind about since starting the project?

Jason Yuke:

Oh, I would say honestly, is keep more of a positive mind. What, which one? I guess when I was into F two, I don't know if you can, if you remember your F twos, but F two just wants to make you quit. You get some birds and they shouldn't even look like that really. But but I guess what I guess in that regard, the best advice I could give anybody is build a game plan and stick to it. Don't change your mind, if you start changing your mind you end right back up at square one. And I've done that with a line and it's a reboot,

Carey Blackmon:

right? So let me ask this. Let's say I want to get some chickens and I wanna, do I wanna make'em better? Should I, before I even get my first chicken, figure out what my goals are, or wait till I can find some birds and figure out goals based on what I can find. Because, oh, I, you can't always find good birds.

Jason Yuke:

No. I I think Carrie, you need to know what you wanna do before you go get them. Unless you just want backyard chickens. And that is fine too. Just having a backyard flock is the thrill to some people. And and that's good. But I would say that it, what I would do is find the breed or the breed you wanna work with. Do some research about that breed make sure that it's suited to your area. That's one thing that I, when I went with the barred rocks, the bell didn't go off right. I just thought, barred rocks, they'll live everywhere. They don't like minus 40 very well. And they don't they know they're not very smart when they drink in the wintertime at minus 40, they just keep going back. You have to watch, you have to watch that waddle damage. But, but yeah, do a little bit of research and what that, what bird is gonna work for you and get the right advice. Get the advice from people that want to steer you in the right way versus sell you a bird.'Cause there's a lot of people that just wanna sell you a bird.

Carey Blackmon:

Yeah. I've had people ask questions and then they would say so and so says this, and I'll say. Who, how do you know that person? They were somebody that I was talking to about buying birds. Yeah. You may want to think about that.

Yeah.

Carey Blackmon:

That could have been the salesman hat that they were wearing. Not the friend Tell you about some birds now, right?

Yeah.

Jason Yuke:

Ribbons and ribbons bring, make big money, right? So yeah, they do. So for

Carey Blackmon:

you, your, with you and your bird, they don't

Jeff nMattocks:

taste good in the stew Pott? They don't,

Carey Blackmon:

no, they don't. Although I have a friend, Jennifer, she's won several ribbons with her, or pinks. She's got some buffs and they also taste pretty good in the stupot. So for you, how do you define success? Or what does it look like? With your restoration project, say five years from now? I would

Jason Yuke:

say as long as I don't recess in in, keep maintaining. If I could fix a trait every few years, I would think that would be successful. And not. And not make the choices to let the recessive genes go back. And it's a really delicate balance, to do that. And you can fix one thing and break four, by trying to fix that one thing. And yeah, so I'd say a slow, steady approach and small baby steps from here on in not to hurt the production, not to hurt the meat. Keep, maintain my size of birds and if I can do that and get my feather quality, the where I would like to see it, it's close but it's not there yet. I, I think the borrowing can

Carey Blackmon:

be tricky.

Jason Yuke:

Yeah. Yeah. I'd say that's a success.

Jeff nMattocks:

Yeah, but working on your body structure, your confirmation, right? Your station, all that, the width, those are harder to get than fixing the feathers. Oh, they are? Yeah. So you have to start with the foundational stuff, the production, the confirmation, the width. Okay. Those are by far more important for your journey, right? Where you're going. They're by far more important than. What the bird looks like. Okay. Yeah. And you'll get there. Yeah. Yeah. I have to ask though, because of where you live, why didn't you consider something like a fau? Which is a winter layer. They actually, they're really backwards in that they like to lay with shorter daylight and through the winter.

Jason Yuke:

So the year after I started, you know why I didn't rip?'cause I didn't know better. Or r Jeff, I didn't know better. I didn't do the research ahead of time. And you are right there for my area. I'll admit there are far better selections, like the y and dot the Sean cla, which I do have on my second breed now. So I do have Partridge Sean Clare's. And yeah, they're winter layers as well. And Jeff, I just, it was putting the the cart for the horse type deal and Oh, it's all

Jeff nMattocks:

good. I was just curious why you didn't No. It feel different. Yeah.

Jason Yuke:

And now that I've had so much work into it, it would really be hard to change for me to change, but I don't think I ever will. But you are 100% right. And that was a big error. In my

Jeff nMattocks:

No. Don't, I'm not even considering changing what at this point. So you have a consistent egg supply. Yeah. Why not have

something whether it's okay. Rocks cover you for eggs all through the spring, summer,

Jason Yuke:

yeah,

we cover both

Jason Yuke:

seasons, right? Yeah. It the look of the bird got me, Jeff, and I thought, geez that's a pretty bird. And yeah, it's,

Carey Blackmon:

The others would be no challenge, right? Oh, so you gotta have something that's challenging and keep it interesting. Yeah.

Yeah.

Carey Blackmon:

Yeah. But I, yeah. Ted wants to know Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas. What would be a good dual purpose bird for that part of the world? It kind, that's almost like the central line of America. What do you guys think?

Jeff nMattocks:

Wouldn't the press be a good choice for that neck of the woods?

Carey Blackmon:

Good genetic breasts will grow and produce anywhere.

Yeah.

Carey Blackmon:

Look, mine are molting. Yeah. And laying eggs make that make sense.

Jeff nMattocks:

They can be really hot in the summer. Just horrible hot. And then they can be really, they can have some really cold weather in the winter. The breast would be a good candidate. Sue says Rhode Island Reds, she's right. They can tolerate that heat pretty well.

Carey Blackmon:

Yeah, they can,

Jeff nMattocks:

The breasts are white so that there, there's no color to fill the yard. That's the only downside that I can see is they're just white. The

Jason Yuke:

leghorn can take a little bit of heat too, can it?

Jeff nMattocks:

Oh, yeah. Yeah. You don't get quite as much body, so if you're looking for something for the crockpot, the leghorn might leave you wanting, there's not a lot of flesh on the majority of the leghorn lines,

Carey Blackmon:

I was gonna say for the leghorns, you would probably have a surplus of eggs.

Yeah.

Carey Blackmon:

But that would not do good for the other. Let's see here. What do you hope your line of barbed rocks contributes to the breed's future?

Jason Yuke:

Yeah, it's a good question. So as of now just for. The security of my line. There's only one person, it's a friend of mine that, that has a few of my birds and they've got a couple of roosters and a dozen hens. But what I would like to do is breed. Breed, this rock, like Jeff said, it won't be an Ontario Bard Rock. Breed it to, to our, that favors our weather a little bit. Get it to. Back to the standard that I think, and everybody's gonna have a different opinion on that. But back to the standards that, that really work as a farm bird and then start letting them go. I don't know how many years down the road that's gonna be. I haven't, I have not sold a bird yet. I don't think they're ready. And, but when they get uniform enough that I'm comfortable start getting them out on farms and homesteads and I think that's the place to put these birds.

Carey Blackmon:

So you says that breasts or hawk bait white. I, I'd have to fire my dog for not doing his job if that did happen, but. I'd like to see, I'd like to see a hawk pick up an eight pound chicken. That would be something. Ontario Bart rocks. Yeah. That has a ring to it.

Jeff nMattocks:

I like it. I like it.

Carey Blackmon:

What is your favorite poultry book

Jason Yuke:

or resource? Oh. So I can't say enough about this. The man that wrote these books James e James E. Rice I don't think, I think that man, he's not around anymore, but he forgot more about this information that I'll ever know. But judging poultry for production, if anybody. Wants to get a thorough read about his interpretation on what to do. He goes into such detail about how he examines the vent and then and he goes into doing studies on eggs and evaluations on eggs over 40, eggs over with one bird. Real quality meat fibers in the meat. And yeah, by far excellent resource. It's gonna take me about five years to digest it, but it's there.

Carey Blackmon:

All right. What's the first thing you do when you walk into the coop every morning? Duck.

Jason Yuke:

Usually, because they're all free range and they all come flying out the door at me about 300 mile an hour. But so that's, yeah so that's, and I'm dead serious so they're they love being outside. So when I use eve troughs a little bit off the ground. What I may, I've learned, sometimes I forget, but you never let the birds out before before you feed. I go feed outside, get the water ready, and then it's like the I'd say it's the det tone of 500. When you open that door, there's about there's six or seven roosters coming at you and not at you, but they're coming out and and 30 or 40, hes but no, what I do, I sit there and I watch them every morning. Every morning. It's just my ritual. I let the dogs out, the dogs go do their thing. They usually come in, they're out all night, but they come in, they go out with me. They sit, they watch, I pet the dogs and watch the birds. That's exactly what

Carey Blackmon:

I do. Got it. What, let's see, what is one thing you do with your birds that makes you smile? Just

Jason Yuke:

honestly, anything different you do they're curious. They're so curious, it's, and it's the small things like I was cutting wood last. Last week, and I knocked a maple tree down. These birds, for the life of me, I can't figure out why they went after those leaves, right? But you just sit there as soon as the tree hit, it's just like all these birds coming towards the tree and they were picking the leaves off. So just really watching them, it just tickles me how they interact with each other, how they interact with the chicks. How they interact. They're different calls, watching the rooster. I always think you have a really good rooster. He is looking after the flock. My rooster never eats first. They always come out first, but they'll pick at the feed and make sure all the henze. But just watching the characteristics of birds. Carrie that's it for me.

Carey Blackmon:

Okay. All right. We have a couple other videos that we're gonna show. Let's see here.

He's a really good rooster. I'll keep him to breed him. There's some of my better hands right there with standards. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. Really good there A, that one's getting beat up a little bit. There's some of the better. Sean declares. There's a really good rooster right there. He's pretty, his C's a little bit thick, but not too bad. But there's why I have so many birds, these guys, and that's a really big rooster. I gonna have a look. Might be too big.

Carey Blackmon:

So if that one's too big outside of the standard, what happens? Hey he meets Jesus chicken nuggets.

Jason Yuke:

Good evening again. Following my last inspection, I just grabbed a little hand chick. This hand chick is just starting to feather out. It's four weeks old. About every two weeks, I grab them and have a look. And what I'm looking for are some real basics on these inspections. I'm just looking for split wing. I'm making sure that the bone structure's right and I'm making sure that the keel is straight. I'm having a look at the head. These aren't gonna be quite as, a cooperative is the hens, but nice, wide head. I'm looking to see how it's developing, checking the joints, checking the legs, making sure the toes are good. So I'm a little bit more particular in the traits at this stage with these little guys. And if there's something that I don't like about the bird we'll either call it or give it away to a local farm. But this one's developing Nice. You can tell that that she's going to she's worth keeping around, to at least the 12 maybe 20 week stage. And then we reassess them and and see what we got.

Carey Blackmon:

All right. One last question I have for you. If there's one bird from your past that you wish you could have back, which one?

Jason Yuke:

Oh, I do. I had a, I do it was in 2021 and it was probably the best rooster that I've, in my early days, I didn't know how good it was. But now that I've had, now that I've been able to handle some birds it was probably the best rooster I've ever seen. He was a solid 10 pounds. And the thing was, there was no floss. He didn't have any running in the, in, in the, in the feathers. He had side saddles, he had five, five points. His beak was every, there was no flaws. Like he just, you'd pick up the bird and there was no flaws. And for some reason, I don't know what happened. It was just one of those things taking the chance on free range. It was right when I was getting my livestock bar guardian dogs and they were pups. Fox came in and took them. Okay. And the last I seen him he was, there were feather tail feathers going on up the hill, but these things happened. The dogs just weren't old enough to to look after it.

Carey Blackmon:

I understand.

Jeff nMattocks:

That's all I have. Jeff, do you have anything, did you get any offspring from him? Do you got anything? I did.

Jason Yuke:

I did and I have his son still. And I do have I have the grandson and they're real close. I think I posted a picture of them on poultry keepers 360 a while back of the generations. And those And your daughters, daughter from I do. I do. And I still have one of the daughters and she's one of the matriarchs. Yeah. And so you may wanna

Jeff nMattocks:

cross those to see if you can get what you want, but

Jason Yuke:

that is. That is what's going on happen this year, Jeff. I'm gonna put my I'm gonna put my best rooster in with the matriarch and see what I'm gonna get in one pen. And then I'm gonna do some families with some other roosters in the other one. And I, honestly, there's no reason sometimes if you only have one good rooster, there's no reason to circulate the rooster either, right? You can do that.

Carey Blackmon:

Let's see. I've been looking through over here and I think we've got all the questions from the audience and we're at our time. Jason, appreciate you coming on. Appreciate you telling us about it, right? Yeah. You take care. Everybody did. Great

Jason Yuke:

job.

Carey Blackmon:

Yeah.

Jason Yuke:

Alright,

Carey Blackmon:

y'all have a good evening.

Alex:

Thank you for joining us for this episode of the Poultry Keepers Podcast. We hope you learned how much work goes in to improving production qualities in a poultry flock. Be sure to join us for another podcast episode next Tuesday. Don't forget to visit us at www.thepoultrykeeperspodcast.com for more great poultry keeping information. Until next week keep learning, improving and enjoying the birds you love.

People on this episode

Head Shot

John Gunterman

Co-host
Head Shot

Mandelyn Royal

Co-host
Head Shot

Rip Stalvey

Co-host