This is our story

002 - In this episode, join Kaisa and Camillo as they embark on a heartfelt journey into their personal experiences of raising a child in a multinational home, residing in bilingual Quebec. With the realization that their child would need to navigate four languages, their initial apprehensions transformed into a beautiful story of embracing linguistic diversity and cultural richness.

Kaisa and Camillo candidly share the challenges they faced as they grappled with the idea of nurturing multilingualism. Listeners will be drawn into their narrative as they recount the uncertainties and fears they encountered along the way. Through engaging anecdotes and personal insights, they shed light on how their perceptions shifted, and how their journey transformed into an inspiring tale of success.

From navigating the intricacies of language dominance to fostering an inclusive environment that celebrates cultural diversity, Kaisa and Camillo provide valuable lessons learned from their own experiences. They offer practical advice on creating a harmonious multilingual upbringing and highlight the unique benefits their child has gained through this language-rich environment.

Listeners will leave this episode with a deeper appreciation for the power of multilingualism, as Kaisa and Camillo's story demonstrates the immense value of embracing linguistic diversity within the family unit. Join them as they unravel their personal story, inviting parents and caregivers on a voyage of discovery, empowerment, and the celebration of language and culture.

So, grab your headphones and get ready to be inspired by Kaisa and Camillo's journey of raising a child in a multinational home, set against the backdrop of a bilingual Quebec.

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Transcript

Kaisa: 0:00

Welcome to our basement again. Hey everyone. Welcome to our second episode. Hello, the Language Experiment podcast. So happy that you're here with us. and in this episode we are going to talk a little bit more about our personal story. Really the, the basis for the Language Experiment podcast. So, once upon a time there was Kaisa from Finland and Camillo from Brazil, and these two people met, in the city of Montreal, in the province of Quebec, in Canada. They met around the year 2012. Then some years passed, they got married, bought a house, and it was in the year of 2017 that they found out that they were expecting their first child. So up until that point we had always been speaking English with each other. Most of our social circle, it's a very international group. So most people communicate in English, but also because we are living in a province where the official language is French. Also, the French language was a big part of our. And coming from two different countries, we realized that in this new situation, we would have four different languages that play, somewhat of a big role in our lives. And now that we were expecting a baby, this was the first time that we really started thinking about what, like how are we going to do this? Where do we go from here?

Camillo: 1:54

Yeah, that's true. And I think the stage where we were finding ourselves at that moment was, as Ka mentioned, a really international stage. We had friends from all over the world. we, we used to work in a company, where we are dealing with people from all over the world on a daily basis. And at some point we see ourselves expecting our first child. And we were kind of thinking, how can we make sure that our languages will survive in this major pot of languages that to us at that very moment would be extremely confusing to achieve something that would make sense, when talking about a kid learning a language. So we were lost.

Kaisa: 2:49

Yeah,

Camillo: 2:49

basically.

Kaisa: 2:50

Yeah. And I think. That's around the time that we started. We started researching, looking for books, looking for, I don't know, like blogs, websites, looking for any kind of a thing where someone will be talking about, maybe talking about their own experience or just even better, just give us this guidebook of, how, how to help your kid. Learn and maintain four different languages? or is that even a thing? Has anyone done that before? And, when we were looking, obviously at least I could find a lot of stuff that was geared towards raising bilingual kids. That was easy to find. And also because, Canada is a bilingual country and there are a lot of, even in our group of friends, All, all local people, they are bilingual. They speak English and French at the very least. but it was clear that we were trying to go beyond that. But I think just the fact that I couldn't really, I couldn't really find anything that would speak about that specific topic. Then I started doubting, is this even. Is this even a thing? Because sometimes, you're looking for something and when you don't find it, you start doubting yourself. Like, am I using the right words to, to search for this? Or is this just something people are totally advising against and that's why these books don't exist? So it was, yeah, we were definitely. It was an uphill battle. And, I was sure that people have done this before, but just when you don't find anything, you kind of start feeling, feeling a little weird. It's like, am I imagining this?

Camillo: 4:36

Yeah. And I think what, what was interest at that point. It's exactly the fact that you look around, you see people, doing. You see kids speaking, you are in a country where you face similar situations, like this all the time, but you don't know. You don't know how people get there. You don't know if they are actually there. well, if there is any, any goal, let's just pretend that we are analyze. Achievements, are they up to par? So how is this possible? And you start looking around and like, like I said, it's, it's hard because it is your first time researching, you know, these kind of things. So maybe you're not using the right terms, maybe you're not, Googling the, the. The information in the right way.

Kaisa: 5:38

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Camillo: 5:39

And then you start to face, blog posts, Facebook posts, whatever social network you are, you are working on. And truly you get confused and I can see that happening around us and was like, wow. There's so many pieces of information. All over the place, but it doesn't, it doesn't look like people are agreeing on something, agreeing on the strategy. So what's going on?

Kaisa: 6:14

Hmm. Yeah, that's, that's exactly how I was feeling. so, I think, I think in the end we didn't spend. All my pregnancy, just research, researching stuff. I think we, we tried to look into it, we tried to look for several different things and then at some point it was, okay, we have other stuff to do as well. There's a lot of prep to do. So we just figured that okay, we, I mean, we know for certain that. I want to speak, Finnish to our child and you knew for certain that you wanted to speak Portuguese. And as for English and French, we knew we would still speak English with each other. And as the environment and the community is French speaking, we knew that maybe the education from daycare to school, then that would be in French. So, If it would actually go like that. We didn't know. We said, okay. Let's just go for it. Let's do it.

Camillo: 7:13

Yeah. I, and it's funny when I'm trying to remember, what we are doing and remember the feeling, trying to understand what, was I doing at that point to try to, even to illustrate this here right now, it is confusing. It is confusing to try to connect the dots from that period of time. And yes, indeed, we didn't trace a plan was basically okay, that's what we want to do, the. The, the Portuguese comes from me, the finish comes from you and the, the rest was basically us crossing our fingers saying, okay, outside of this environment there is hundreds of thousands of people speaking English and French. Eventually daycare school's gonna be in one of these two language, so they are not a problem. They are. A situation that is going to happen no matter what. How do we deal with our languages? What's the biggest question? Will our language be able to survive? How do we tackle them? Are, are we going to mess up? Because ultimately, if you stay here and you're going to live as a Canadian, you don't need. the Portuguese, you don't need the finish, but you will need the French if you're live in Quebec and you will need the English. Mm-hmm. So how, how would that play?

Kaisa: 8:46

Mm-hmm.

Camillo: 8:46

And we didn't know. Yeah. It, it was almost like we might be taking this huge risk and setting our kid back multiple years if we make the wrong choice. And also at that point, We also occasionally got comments from other people who were asking, so what, what is your plan for your child? Are you gonna be speaking your own languages? Are you gonna be speaking English or French? and obviously I don't think we received any ne any negative comments, but, Based on some of the, some of the friends or parents that we spoke with, I would say that the majority of them had chosen to, let's say, play it safe and rather than actually speaking their own language, opting for one of the local languages. So just going with English. Or with French from the get-go. I think that was the more common situation that, that we would see. And it seemed a bit of a risky bet to take, but I think it felt natural to us, so we just decided, okay, we're gonna, we're gonna give it a shot. It is an experiment, and. We can only make a hypothesis about it, then just try it out and then we'll see. So then in the year 2018, In the summer, the hottest time of the year in Montreal, our daughter was born. And I think the biggest, biggest sort of language related thing that I can remember from that time when she was just some weeks or some months old, was how weird and how difficult it was to actually not speak English to her because we were so used to speaking English to each other and we had a cat, and even to him we would speak English. It's not that I was speaking Finnish to him and you were speaking Portuguese. Our whole existence here, everything had been English and although we wanted to speak our own languages, It was so hard in the beginning and at that point I was barely speaking Finnish at all with anyone. It was only really with my parents that I would speak to on the phone. maybe once every couple of weeks, but I had no finished friends here in Montreal, and I didn't travel back home so often. So, I wouldn't say my finish was rusty, but I just wasn't using it at all. So for me, it was such a big change to start speaking, finish to this little baby, although that's exactly what I had planned. But the, the difficulty in making that switch really surprised me. I think we were both struggling with that in the beginning. In the beginning. because it don't, it, it doesn't feel, natural, which. Which is weird to think about because it's your native language. You were born and raised speaking and listened to it, so at some point you find yourself as a parent and it's hard for you to speak our own language to your kid just because 98% of interaction for the past years there are in English work friends at. And the 2% left. It's, a mix between the French, if you are interesting to keep French, which I always, try to, to do. So these 2% left was myself working in French, working my French, not in French, sorry, but working my French around services, restaurants and, and try to, to keep. Alive and talking to my parents back in Brazil and some Brazilians that you end up, meeting here in Montreal. So these were, these were the places where I speak Portuguese Sunday, and like I said, I, I have this baby, it's my baby, it's in front of me and it's just hard, it's just hard to interact in, in Portuguese. So I'm, same as I'm speaking English to, to the baby as. So it's it's tough.

Kaisa: 13:16

One thing that I can clearly remember was that we, I think you don't remember this as clearly, but it was one of the first pediatrician appointments. And we were still in that phase where we were, we were struggling or not struggling, but it was also at that point, you're not talking to the baby so much. She's only some weeks old. But we were there with the pediatrician. We had shared with her our plan of speaking our own languages, but then I just remember us kind. I think like you were, you were lifting her, we were doing something in the, in the pediatrician's office and, and you spoke English as if you were speaking to the baby. and our pediatrician just said, Hey, you told me that you were planning on speaking your own languages. Just keep, stick to that plan. Don't speak to her in English. Speak to. In finish and in Portuguese. Cuz if you don't do that, she's just, she's only gonna speak English and probably French. But just stick to your plan. And that was, I still remember that moment because I was like, okay, okay now this is the, this is the little, little snap or the little wake up call back to our plan now we, now we just need to do it better, just better get used to it. And I think after that point, onwards, We just pushed through the weirdness and started doing it.

Camillo: 14:49

Yeah, I, I think the, the, the first visit to the pediatrician was, was really important just because she understood, our scenario. She understood what we wanted to do, and she had no doubt. In regards to the strategy. Mm-hmm. I, I truly believe that this was something that, she already had in mind. Of course, she's the professional on this, on this conversation, but it's just interesting to, to, to see that. They are pushing, or at least she is pushing the parents to stick to their own languages and with a clear background story for us to understand. Why we should do it, which, which which was good for us was, was really good. Mm-hmm. And of course it's not automatically, you're not going to leave that office and just snap and be like, oh, great. So now when I'm gonna look at the baby, it's going to just, Portuguese is gonna come out of my mouth. Mm-hmm. Or whatever language you speak with, with your kid, no. But is your conscience that change? You will police yourself way more often. You're going to catch yourself speaking, sentence in English and you correct. And you translate immediately and you repeat yourself. That's the, at least that's the, the mindset that we ended up adopting as soon as le we left the, the office. Mm-hmm. And so far. It paid off. I think it paid off.

Kaisa: 16:28

Mm-hmm.

Camillo: 16:28

Really well,

Kaisa: 16:29

definitely. And it's, yeah, I think it's just this little thing, sometimes you're doing something that you, that you don't wanna do and you realize you're doing it, and then it only takes someone else noticing it and saying like, Hey, you're doing it like you're, you're doing, although you shouldn't be doing it. So it's sometimes it just. It just serves us this little reminder to yourself, okay, back to the, back to the right path. And I'm also so happy that we had this professional, who supported our plan. And was kind enough to remind us Hey, stick to the path that you have chosen. I think it's always good to have this cheerleader, who will, who will support you because I mean, I'm sure there are a bunch of people who, who don't have that. So at least for us it was good.

Camillo: 17:19

Yeah, and, and, and I think the most interesting bit about this, all these interactions is when she started to talk, and when I say started to talk, it's when she started to be able to engage in conversations. The, the simplest conversation that you can think about, a little infant can have with their parents. And she started to, say things and finish to you and say things in Portuguese to. And understand when we are talking back, we go to the routine, visit the pediatrician, and then she ask, oh, how, how's it going? Did she already say mama? She already say papa and, and so forth. And we start saying, well, yeah, she says, Papa in, in Portuguese, and she says, I in Finnish, which is mom and. You see that the pediatrician, she doesn't tap her own back saying like, yeah, I knew it. She gets surprised as well. Mm-hmm. And she's like, whoa. That's amazing.

Kaisa: 18:31

Yeah.

Camillo: 18:32

So she had this plan in her own mind as well, but she also doesn't know if it's going to work. Right. Which is super interesting because she truly believes that if you do. You achieve it.

Kaisa: 18:48

Mm-hmm.

Camillo: 18:49

We didn't know. Of course we are not professionals from the area, but we had this in mind. Yeah, we should do it. Let's do it. Let's stick to the plan. We just got our biggest supporter ever.

Kaisa: 19:00

Mm-hmm.

Camillo: 19:00

Let's do it. We dunno if it's gonna work, but let's do it. Then we see little results in the beginning. We come back, we explain what's happening and she gets amazed by it. Mm-hmm. And every time, ever since we go. She,

Kaisa: 19:17

yeah. Every time we, every time we give her an update about her language development and our, our daughter is now four and a half years old, it always amazes her and she always, and she always just kind of expresses how. How, how proud she is and yeah, how like happy she is that we are still continuing, continuing with the plan. So that was, that was so important.

Camillo: 19:43

Exactly. And if you are listening is interested to know or cur curious to know how that, that plays out. during the, the, the consultation, the pediatrician is speaking French to our daughter. We are speak our language to her while we speak English to the pediatrician. So in the room, at that very moment, you do have four language being spoken and everything works.

Kaisa: 20:18

Mm-hmm. Everything works and everybody understands each other. Apart from her when we speak our language. Exactly. Apart, yeah. Apart from the pediatrician.

Camillo: 20:26

Apart from the pediatrician. When we speak with the kids.

Kaisa: 20:28

Yeah. From our side. In, in, from our side of, I mean for our family, we understand

Camillo: 20:33

exactly. And from, from a general perspective, it makes sense. The pediatrician is not interested in what I'm talking to my kid. If I'm, if I'm telling her, oh, you need to be quiet now because dad is talking to. To the doctor, like she, this is not interesting to her, so she doesn't need to know. She doesn't need to understand, but my daughter needs, and she does. But at the same time, deputy pediatrician speaking to her in French with things, they're interested to everyone. It's a consultation. Remember that? Keep that in mind. Right? So it's really interesting to see how all these Languages are being spoken in that room and the audience understands. All the topics and subjects that have been discussed, they're from their own interest. Whatever. Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. And everybody's is happy.

Kaisa: 21:31

Mm-hmm. So, yeah. So I think despite the difficulties in the beginning, We stuck to our plan and kept speaking our own languages to our daughter. When she was, when she was one year old, right after she turned one, she started daycare, which is a bilingual daycare where it's mostly French, with a little bit of English, and then a little, little bit of Spanish, so it's actually like a trilingual daycare, but still the majority of the language. Is French. She started there as a one year old, had a bit of a, maybe a six month break, when the pandemic happened. what, at which point she stayed at home with us and then went back to daycare and she's still there. now she's in, in her last year there. And she can fully understand, she can communicate in all of the languages in Finnish, in Portuguese, in English, and in French. And obviously she's, like I mentioned before, she's now four and a half years old. This is just kind of like the status right now. we've come this far and so far our plan has worked. This does not mean that it will work the same way in the future, that the languages will kind of stay equal. what a lot of people are saying is that when the child starts school, then. A lot of things might start changing, so maybe the school language will become more dominant and the minority languages might become a little bit weaker that we don't know yet, but this is the situation right now. And, yeah, I'd say those are the results that, that we've, we've seen. Yeah. From our experience.

Camillo: 23:28

Yeah. And I think this should be expected. Everyone and anyone that is in this journey, you, you will have languages that will be stronger in your kid, and those languages are the language that they are going to be most exposed to. And most likely, if you're in a situation similar to us, this is gonna be the language of the, the country that you're live in or, or the province or state that they're living. Because they will start interact in school. They'll have their own friends. the exposure to those language will be longer if you consider that they have to spend X amount of hours, at school, discussing, discussing and learning on these languages. So, yeah, you should be prepared for a. But you should also be aware that you, that's why you should stick to your guns and okay. when you talk to dad, it's gonna be in Portuguese. Gonna talk to mom. He's gonna be finished. You already know the language. Since, since the beginning. Let's, let's, let's continue. And I think as a parent, you should also consider the situations around your. Because sometimes, yeah, sometimes it happens to us When our daughter, she decides to try to speak English to us. You need to, you need to still, try to, To bring your language into the picture, but maybe she started at that moment. She's trying to, to impress you somehow, or she, she just, she just don't want it. Okay. Give it it like a little break, like answer the question, don't force too much, but try to, to always stick to your, to your, your language. It it, for sure it's gonna work.

Kaisa: 25:26

Mm-hmm. Yeah, definitely. So at least based on our experience, it has whatever we tried and whatever we well decided to do, we've been. We've been, pretty successful in it. And while we don't know if it's how long it will last or if it'll last forever, we're remaining flexible in our own approach. So we're just gonna, we're just gonna keep doing what we're doing and we'll see what happens. We'll see what happens in the future. I guess that was, that was our story. And, feel free to send your questions to us if you, if you have any, would be, would be really happy to answer your questions in future episodes. If some parts of our story maybe you could relate to because you're in a similar situation or, you just thought of some questions that popped into your mind because of something that you heard. Send us your questions, we'd be happy to answer them.

Camillo: 26:31

I think this is just the beginning of our journey. we are happy to have you here listening to the Language Experiment. This podcast, we started exactly because we want to to be guides. We want to be guided. We want to be this face where a lot of people can relate to and start a conversation. So thank you so much for listening to us today.

Kaisa: 27:01

Thanks so much. See you in the next episode.

Camillo: 27:03

Bye

Kaisa: 27:04

bye bye.