The Language Experiment

An interview with a mom of trilingual twins

• Camillo Lakiss and Kaisa Martiskainen • Season 1 • Episode 13

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#13 - In this episode of "The Language Experiment," we interview Priscilla, a mom raising her trilingual twins in Canada. Priscilla shares her experiences and insights into the challenges and joys of raising trilingual children. She discusses her strategies for balancing language exposure, incorporating Brazilian culture and traditions into their lives, and finding valuable resources for language learning. Priscilla's story highlights the importance of language exposure and the unique perspective that multilingual children bring to the world.

Join us for an enlightening conversation on the benefits and challenges of raising trilingual children and discover how language can shape a child's perception of the world.

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Subscribe to our feed and follow us on all podcast platforms. Reach out to us with your questions and topic suggestions. Let's build a community together!

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Kaisa:

Welcome to the Language Experiment. Everyone. I hope you are all doing well today. We are bringing to you our very first interview, so this is very exciting. we are already some 12 episodes deep into this podcast, and some people might be thinking, Didn't they say they would be interviewing people? So yes. You didn't dream that. We actually said we would be interviewing parents and experts, and today we bring to you our guest, a mom who is raising her kids trilingual. Her name is Priscilla. She's originally from Brazil and she moved to Canada some 13 years ago, and she's married to a French Canadian. Together. They have five-year-old twins, a boy and a girl, and two dogs whom they suspect to be bilingual, if not trilingual as well. So I feel like this is a topic for a new podcast that nobody has started yet, how to raise your pets multilingual. So that's just a free podcast idea for anyone who's interested. But without further ado, welcome to the podcast, Priscilla.

Priscilla:

Hi Kaisa. Thank you for having me, It's pleasure to be here.

Kaisa:

So how, how do you feel

Priscilla:

I feel great so much to.

Kaisa:

We're so happy that you're here today with us. Thanks so much for coming on the podcast. let's jump right in. you grew up speaking Brazilian, Portuguese, and you learned English a little bit later in school. You, can you tell me about your experience raising your children? Trilingual in a Canadian province where the majority language is French, which is a language you only learned later in life.

Priscilla:

Well, I think it, I think it's interesting. First of all, we are very fortunate to live in, a province that gives us this opportunity to be. Bilingual right off the bat. in Brazil, it's, we have English, we have access to English and Spanish as well, but it's not as if we would live in a bilingual place that gives you this, all this material and this exposure. So when I moved to Canada, for me it was always imperative that my kids would, speak Portuguese because not only because. is important for them to be able to talk to my family, but also as a heritage, you know, part of my culture where I come from. I want them to know, to understand, to be proud of. So it was a very interesting experience in the sense that. Our learning path in Brazil is different from our learning path here and in Canada is more natural 'cause we have more access when you go to the grocery store or TV or books is way easier than Brazil.'cause we have to actively look for courses and there's no, you cannot just strike conversation in English with people to practice. so you actually have to go after this kind of, instruction to yourself.

Kaisa:

Oh yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I think that's the case in a lot of countries where, of course you always have tourists, but that speak different languages, but people don't have access to these people all the time. So even if they learn a language such as English in school, sometimes you just don't get to practice it with anyone in everyday life.

Priscilla:

Exactly, and it, it's funny because my parents always, thought it was important for us to learn another language in that case, especially English. So the moment that we were able to read. Fast enough to read subtitles, they would always rent.'cause at that time it was like a rent , video tape

Kaisa:

Oh

Priscilla:

They would rent, yeah, they rent, a movie, movie, with subtitles. Always. So if we will practice, and of course like everybody learns English, uh, with friends and watching tv, and subtitles, that was very important. And I think part of this is translating into the kind of language education I'm giving to my kids. Whether or not TV is good or bad, it's a source and is a valuable source for them, and I'm trying to leverage that.

Kaisa:

Oh yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I fully agree with you subtitles, hearing movies and series in their original language and then having subtitles, is, is very important. We are also very big on that in the Nordic countries and that's why I think people there, they speak English very well and many people speak multiple languages, so completely agree. and, and good, well done. Your parents. I like that.

Priscilla:

Yeah. Yeah, it was a good experience for us. Lion King was the best

Kaisa:

It is the best. That's awesome. So, onto the next question. How do you and your husband manage to balance the languages at home? And what strategies have you found effective in ensuring that your children get enough exposure to each language?

Priscilla:

that's, that's the, the question. This, that's a very interesting question because, It has to be something that is thought of that is intentional in our case. So it's not a matter of I'm gonna try to speak in Portuguese to to them and my husband's gonna try to speak in French and let's see what's gonna happen. We always had the strategy of being mindful of our languages. So when I was expecting the twins, I read a book, well read, I. Two thirds of the book, called Trilingual by Six, by Dr. Lenis Dibel. And although it was very focused on the US and their particular scenario where there's like one language that's English and the their types of sources. So one, I remember one of the. The advices he gives. It's, yeah, just get a, a Spanish speaking nannies if you want your kids to speak Spanish. Like, yeah, that's not everybody's reality

Kaisa:

That's right

Priscilla:

but I think bottom line, the message that I got from the book, and it's something that I had. Inside already. It's a message that I, I knew is that language is exposure. for a while I thought English in Brazil, and I remember like the students would come for 45 minutes once a week and they were expecting to become fully bilingual in a short amount of time. And that's not the case. I would always tell them to watch movies with subtitles and try to expose themselves to the, the language that they wanted to learn as much as they could. And that's the strategy we follow with the kids. we see that at daycare, we saw that at daycare they were more, they were more exposed to English. So whenever they would come home, we would try to balance Portuguese and French. So let's say no TV in English. Whereas right now at school, like kindergarten, they're more exposed to French. So we're trying to balance Portuguese and English at home. So don't forget the English that they had at daycare. so whenever we see them or during a weekend that they spend, a good amount of time with their grandparents speaking in French, same thing. Then at home they'll be more exposed to, to English and Portuguese. So it's a daily observation of what they were exposed to and how we can help them. And like I said at the beginning, it's being mindful and. And have a purpose, or your, the type of communication that you have with the kids, with the quality. Also, like for us, it's very important to set at a table and have a meal together, and then having a conversation with the chosen language of the day, either French or Portuguese, but trying also to keep one language per parent a strategy. Then I'm sure you already, talked about, all that to say is, is not, we're not leading it to fate.

Kaisa:

That's good. That's, that's very smart. And that's really, I mean, that's really good advice. I think being mindful, obviously being mindful about in, in all other areas of life is, is very good. But, also Kinda like not just creating this one plan and expecting that plan to stay the same over the years because situations and circumstances they change. So like you said, at some point you notice that now they're, they're getting more English exposure, so you have to balance it out, with the other languages and everything. So I think that's very, That's a very smart strategy. So always monitoring and, and I guess also kind of hearing them like, is one of their languages getting a little bit weaker? Could it be that they're getting less exposure and then trying to supplement with, with different things, in the day-to-day life.

Priscilla:

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It makes sense. You're totally right. when we realized, 'cause I see there's kind of a, we, we ordered the. The languages, that they that they have right now in a way that we feel that English and French are for sure the strongest languages that they, they have right now and Portuguese. I, I think it's, it's because the amount of the, the amount of exposure that they have to Portuguese at this point, which I understand, I'm the only speaking Portuguese speaking person that they have contact on a daily basis. Sometimes they talk to my family, but the, you know, they have, they have tv, they have books. it's not the same amount of time that they have with English. And French. So, we, there's a daily like, say monitoring of seeing like, well, language is good, which one is not, and balancing it out.

Kaisa:

Exactly. And you mentioned exposure and like we've said before in in our episodes, it is. It is absolutely the most important, aspect of learning language is getting enough exposure. And of course, I mean, it's not always possible to give equal amounts of exposure to all the languages, but that doesn't mean that, The kids would not be bilingual or, or trilingual or that maybe after some kind of a family trip to Brazil, something like that, can suddenly give them a big language boost or maybe having family visit or something. So suddenly you get a lot more exposure and that can again, like offset the balance a little bit.

Priscilla:

That's right.

Kaisa:

So, have you faced any challenges or obstacles in raising your children to be trilingual? And if so, how have you worked to overcome them?

Priscilla:

Well, it's something that I'm still trying to figure out is that they, they don't understand why they cannot. Talking the language they choose all the time.. So let's say in school sometimes they decide to speak in English, to to talk in English with each other, right? Even in Portuguese.'cause they found out they have a friend in their class that speaks Portuguese. And whenever they try to, which is something that we always promoting and always telling them, you know what? Talking Portuguese or talking, you know, in English or, and they, they tried at school and they, the teacher was like, no, it's only in French here. They came home and they said, why? They, they don't understand, because, and that's what we tell them. The school is a place for you to learn. So why I cannot continue to learn this language. so that's the first challenge we're facing to try to make . Understand that why school is only French and why with some people you have to speak this language or that language and sometimes. It's the other way around, right? So I remember at daycare, they had, they had a lot of Asian friends. They were speaking in Chinese and they felt, they felt left out and they would come home and say, yeah, well they were speaking in Chinese. I couldn't understand. So I wanted to learn Chinese so I could speak to them. which is super cute. And this all this context. With the culture and language that, that's the first challenge I think we're facing. And I think the second most difficult challenge is the scarcity of material that we have in Canada in a way, we're regard in Portuguese. it's not as easy to find. Portuguese books or TV or quality conversation with people like other than us, as is if they were in Brazil, let's say people can bring books from Brazil. We can try to find some books online, but it's not the same. So I'll, I'll love to have more access to, to books and, TV for an hour. It's, it's Disney.

Kaisa:

Exactly. That helps.

Priscilla:

Yes, they have pretty much everything in Portuguese from Brazil, but that's something interesting else because sometimes some, TV shows, they have Portuguese from Portugal and they turn to us and they say why they're speaking in English. They, they didn't do this . So no, that's Portuguese.

Kaisa:

Oh, wow. I'm surprised that they would think that they're speaking English.

Priscilla:

It takes them a while to do switch and then I. Oh, okay. So that's not the Portuguese, Brazil

Kaisa:

That's really interesting. Yeah. I think all of those challenges that you mentioned, so first, yeah, kind of language politics, so even, or kind of that going to a certain kind of school or institution or being in a certain kind of place. Some people will only speak a certain language or, or that kids are encouraged or even forced to speak a certain language and no other language is allowed. So yeah, that can be something that already touches, kids who are, who are in school and who knows, maybe even daycare. So that's kind of a. It's a rough challenge to learn at such a young age. And, yes, also, like you mentioned, language exclusion. So some people talking a language that you don't understand and you, you feel left out. So of course like that can happen also within the family, but definitely in other settings. And, then we can only think like, how can we, how can we help kids solve this kind of issue? It's a bit tricky, isn't it?

Priscilla:

Yes, and especially because sometimes . We are in an environment where I want people to understand what I'm talking to my kids. So let's say with my in-laws, and then I, I, I speak in English or in French with the kids, and they look at me and say, why are you not speaking in Portuguese with me right now?

Kaisa:

Yeah.

Priscilla:

I love it, but they arrive. So all this contextualization that is happening and they're trying to understand is another layer on top of, you know, trying to be trilingual.

Kaisa:

Totally. Yeah. Like you think that it's just this straight road and you'll just stay on it, and then if you keep going for years, you'll be good. But it, it turns out that it's like an onion and you're peeling one layer after another. And, be challenging. Now it. Might not be challenging in the future, but you'll have something completely different that you didn't even know to expect years ago.

Priscilla:

That's true, but that's, even for us, right? So it's uncharted territory coming from Brazil and trying to understand the whole language. Politics for me is still a bit weird when I am speaking French and some, someone just switched to English. It's like, Why

Kaisa:

Yeah, that's,

Priscilla:

even

Kaisa:

another,

Priscilla:

for us, yeah.

Kaisa:

that's another very interesting topic that I think a lot of language learners, maybe older language learners deal with. So how hard is it to learn, like how do the native speakers of a certain language treat you when you are in the process of learning? So I think that That, varies across languages a lot. So I think French speakers are famous for being very, let's say, very demanding of, of people who are only beginning to learn the language. And then there are others, maybe I would say in my own experience, Spanish speakers, for example, who are Much more forgiving and maybe more welcoming. so so yeah, that's a, that's a whole other world of, kind of, yeah, just challenges and, and different kind of experiences that you have to go through as a language learner. So I can definitely relate.

Priscilla:

Yeah, there's always a challenge

Kaisa:

Oh yeah. Yeah. What would life be without challenges? So, as you are raising twins, what kind of differences have you noticed between them? When it comes to language learning, and would you say that the way you communicate with each child and expose them to your language is the same, or is it different? Is it more tailored to their personality maybe.

Priscilla:

That's also very interesting question and I feel like, Whenever we talk about children and everything, twin situations always a topic that is left out because it's a minority. I remember when I was pregnant and during this, their education and everything. Whenever I try to find materials specific about twins, there's never anything but. Honestly, language wise, it's pretty similar with both of them. we realized with my boy at the beginning that he, he had some language challenges, for up until today. It's normal. They are, they're mixing the three languages all the time. But my boy, he, he was stuttering a little bit and he had trouble with. Some particular sounds and I remember we went to see the pediatrician and the pediatrician was just like, Nope, it's too early. Don't worry about it. it is gonna come naturally and naturally. And it's true. He came and now he doesn't stir anymore. I just felt that he was so eager to, to speak correctly or to have his, Idea that was talking too fast actually. Watching them talking to themselves. It's my gauge to see which language they are stronger or which language needs some, some boost. Like I see they rarely speak in Portuguese to each other, whereas, most of the time it's either in French or in English. But it depends out, it depends also on the exposure. Let's say if they watched a movie that was in Portuguese, I could see that. Right after, for a cer a certain amount of time they still talk to in Portuguese to each other, but then it goes away. You know, they start to speak in English or in French again. but I'm always observing their relationship, their dynamics, and for me it's perfect because I don't have to actively go look for it and can just sit and watch.

Kaisa:

That's great. Yeah. mean, yeah, those things that you mentioned, so sorry, those things that you mentioned are definitely things that I know many parents raising multilingual children. I. They might be some of those concerns that they have. So if they notice that maybe. Their, their child seems to be a little bit slower in, in some things, developing their language. I mean, it could be that they're actually a little bit slower, developing these things, or it could, it could just be perceived that way. but sometimes also kids do stutter or they mix languages and all these things. And, like you said, For the majority of children, actually these phases of stuttering or, or maybe even not speaking that much, and these other things, they, in most cases, resolve themselves on their own. And at least based on the research that we've looked at, it seems that, Multiple languages don't seem to have any kind of an effect on, on stuttering or any of these things. So, but then when you're in it yourself, when you're raising multilingual children and you know that you're doing something differently, it's easy to always think like, oh, is this happening? Because, I'm teaching them multiple languages. So you do, you, do you feel like you sometimes, when, when there's, something that you're not sure if it's normal or not, you start doubting yourself a little bit because you know you are, you're exposing them to more languages.

Priscilla:

Yeah, you blame, you blamed a different thing, , whatever. Whatever's different you blame on it. But I remember when we were talking to the doctor and we wore. Cautious, you know, like we saw this, this pattern that we just wanted to check with him if it was okay or not. and the doctor was a bit like, you're exaggerating it's too early, but I think we just wanted to be good parents and have that checked, you know, just in case it's something that, it was a kind of a situation that the earlier, the better, you know, it's caught and it treated, but in the end, the doctor was right. It, it went away, which we're happy. And he said that he, he has. Still some issues with some sounds like f but I don't think that it's related to being in trilingual, probably. It's just, a part of his, his path, you know, in, in learning to speak overall

Kaisa:

Exactly. Yeah, that makes sense. And of course, like we all know as first time parents or even second time parents, it's when we're worried and anxious about something, it's better to talk to someone. It's better talk a professional. And of course, like if they say that there's no need to worry, then maybe we don't need to push it more at that point. But I mean, it is completely valid. To, to present your case and to, to tell a pediatrician or a speech therapist or someone if you're having some worries, because we never know this is our first time doing this and maybe it is something, or maybe it is nothing. So it's always good to hear that okay. It'll probably resolve, itself on its own. No need to worry. This is completely normal. So even just hearing those words, it, it helps a lot.

Priscilla:

Yes, for sure. Better saved than sorry,

Kaisa:

Exactly. so how do you incorporate Brazilian culture and traditions in your family's life? If, if that's something that you do? I.

Priscilla:

For sure. I wish I, I could do it more, but my way of doing this, first of all is through food. Because I love Brazilian food and I miss it a lot. So whenever I cook something new, something from Brazil, I, I, it's a different subject that I bring to the kids. So we can talk about it, about the ingredients or the region of Brazil where this food is popular. So to talk about more, folklore and geography. And the second thing that I try to do a lot is through books, because there are some particular books. History of Brazil and folklore in Brazil. So the kids love them about, about indigenous populations there. Those are their favorite books. those stories that I learned at school, it's something that it's precious to me and I really wanted them to know them. it's good memories and it would be a shame for them not to be exposed to those things and know them. it's good fond memories, so I, I try it as much as I can. Like I mentioned before, I wish I had more access to books, as the books I have abroad from Brazil. but it's good to have some vari variety of materials, and explore more.'cause Brazilian culture is pretty vast and rich and we have limited access to it.

Kaisa:

Yeah. That's really a shame, and I think it's something that Many people, like many individuals, many parents who are living outside of their home country, they have that exact problem. it's not always easy to get access to resources such as books. Like sometimes you can order books online or have your family sent them to you, but it's, you can do it whenever you want and some people might not even have access to access to that. So, It is. It is definitely tricky and we have to find ways of getting around that. But I think what you are doing with cooking and introducing Brazilian cuisine to your kids and your family, and then incorporating geography and. history folklore into that. I think that's genius because of course there might be some ingredients that you might not find here in Canada that you would need, but maybe that's, maybe that's okay. It's really It's really more about getting the kids excited about something and really, I mean, sharing food or cooking food to a family, it's really, you're putting yourself and your love and the culture all into the same mix. So I think that's a brilliant idea.

Priscilla:

Yeah. And I remember a lot those memories when my grandma was cooking and singing, all those little things, you know, that made me feel still like, homesick. and the kids, you know, sometimes I, when I find a particular fruit that it's very popular in Brazil and not so common here in Canada, they recognize them and they, they feel like, oh look, that's from Brazil. They feel proud about it and I am proud that they are, you know, so, it's like, okay, mission accomplished,

Kaisa:

Yeah. That's amazing because it might, it, it must make them feel really special because it's not something that maybe their friends know and it's, yeah, it's really, it's a part of them in a way.

Priscilla:

Yes.

Kaisa:

That's really nice. Are there any special resources that have been helpful in exposing your kids to your native language?

Priscilla:

Yes. Like I said, Disney plus

Kaisa:

I.

Priscilla:

Different from other, streaming platforms. I feel that Disney Plus is the one that really has multiple languages or pretty much all, TV shows that they like are, in Portuguese and. That's the language they know they're gonna listen to. I'm really interested also in this material. I honestly didn't start yet, but I want to, it's called, "Kit Papagaios" it, it's material to help the kids to learn to read and write in Portuguese, but this is dedicated to people that are not in Brazil. I figured that while they're learning how to read and write in French at school, I would do the same in Portuguese with them at home. So they could learn at the same time. The sounds of the letters and the words in Portuguese maybe will make things easier for them when they start to read in Portuguese in the future. I'm not sure this is a good idea, a bad idea. I'm still trying to figure this out. I don't wanna overwhelm them at the same time. But I have the kit and I want, I'm planning on, using this and something else. Also, there's a Facebook group, in Portuguese, it's called"Criando filhos bilingües". It's raising bilingual kids, and they always sharing a lot of like materials and it, it's families from all around the world in this group, and they're always sharing their strategies or what they're doing. For the, and that's where I learned about this, this, kit to, teach, to read and write in Portuguese. so that's a very good source for me as well. So always being up to date with the new techniques and, what's available out there.

Kaisa:

that's really great. And I feel like these, any kind of online resources, be it Facebook groups or groups on some other platform, they are They're super useful because exactly like you say, they connect people from all over the world. And I guess in the case of this group, it is specifically, I guess Brazilians or Portuguese speakers who are raising bilingual children. they are the best people to get recommendations from for these very specific resources, like the kit that you mentioned, and also it must be so nice to hear from other people who are in the exact same situation as you. trying to teach Portuguese to their children, and maybe they're living abroad, maybe they're married to To someone who's not Brazilian or a Portuguese speaker. definitely I think these kind of groups are, are really amazing. And I think the kit that you mentioned sounds really interesting and we are also sometimes thinking should we include some more kind of academic, kind of activities and things like that. And, but then we're also Not quite sure. it's a challenge because I think everybody does what they, they think is best and what their kids enjoy. maybe it's just a question of trying it out and seeing how our kids like it. and if they don't, if they're not that into it, maybe we'll bring it up sometime later in life. Or if they like it, then that's another fun activity to add. to their life.

Priscilla:

That's right. That's an experiment, right?

Kaisa:

Exactly. Exactly. And you know that all about language experiments,

Priscilla:

Yeah., I guess in the end it's really to, just see what works for you and, like I said, I don't wanna overwhelm them, but let's give it a try. You see, maybe it works and it's gonna be something else. Another source for them.

Kaisa:

Exactly. Exactly. And also like kids' personalities are different. So what works for one or what is really interesting and fun for one might not be that. To, to the next kid. So it's really about trial and error. And if someone doesn't like something right now, it doesn't mean that they won't like it in the future. So, I guess that's the great thing about, working with kids and exposing them to different things and trying to come up with fun activities for them.

Priscilla:

For sure. There's no recipe book for that.

Kaisa:

Nope, we just have to try it out.

Priscilla:

Yeah.

Kaisa:

So, do you have any advice or words of encouragement for other parents out there who are raising their children to be bilingual or multilingual?

Priscilla:

I would say that it's definitely worth the effort. without a doubt. I think while I was doing in my, my research also, I started to read even before I had kids, what it is to be bilingual as an adult moving to Canada or having to learn a new language from scratch. And then having kids and how I'm gonna help them with my mother language. I remember that one of the articles I read, said that actually, bilingual and trilingual, kids, they have multiple souls. And that sentence always stuck to my head in the way that having. Multilingual people, they perceive reality in a different way because of the context switch and the structure. They can see the world in different ways, and that was beautiful and amazing, and every time I feel that it's difficult for me or that this is too challenging, I think of a gift that I'm giving them of that opportunity of being . Able to see the world through many perspectives, you know, through many realities. And that's amazing. You know, the studies on the, on kids' brains, they are multilingual. It's, it's only starting at the, every day they come up with something new and an advantage of for being bilingual or trilingual. my advice is, yes, it's not easy. It requires some. Effort and we have to be mindful and intentional about our actions, but it's definitely worth it.

_1_09-25-2023_205609:

That's great. How beautiful and insightful. Thank

Kaisa:

you for those

_1_09-25-2023_205609:

words. And I couldn't agree more with

Kaisa:

you. This

_1_09-25-2023_205609:

is really the perfect ending for our first interview. It has been such a pleasure to have you as a guest, Priscilla. Thank you very much for joining me today.

Priscilla:

Thank you for having me. It was such a pleasure.

_1_09-25-2023_205609:

If any of you listeners have any questions to Priscilla, we'd be happy to receive your questions and send them her way. Thank you so much for joining us and let's continue on this multilingual parenting journey together. See you in the next episode. Bye-bye.

People on this episode

Contributor

Camillo Lakiss

Host
Contributor

Kaisa Martiskainen

Host