Julia Campisi Episode #8: I Want To Eat Your Sky

Exploring the culture of construction Artist Julia Campisi reworks and rewrites how we see things in our everyday world. Primarily being known for her collage work Julia shines a new light on overlooked objects and gives them a new identity. One that reveals itself in unique ways. Orchestrating her interdisciplinary skills to new depths using design, photography, collage and sculpture to create a new narrative on our built culture of self and why we exist.

With a background in photography from Concordia University, Toronto Metropolitan University, and Mcmaster for Political Science. Campisi reshapes our ascribed environments and changes the lens we're used to. Refocusing it into absurdity and fantasy, she draws you in to question the ideal or feeling, and allows it to live as a stand-in alongside our built world.

Known for her lace like collage work, Campisi repurposes and uses industrial motifs, with daily tools like resin and acrylic to convey the necessary translucency from their tactile nature. With her fragmented collection of images she cultivates and challenges how images migrate culturally, our future uncertainty, and the  commodity of beauty.  

Transcript

(0:04) Hey everyone, welcome back to the Creatively Thinking Podcast. (0:10) Join Carolyn Botelho as she uncovers the inspirations behind some incredibly creative minds that (0:16) are orbiting our local communities. (0:30) So hello.(0:31) Hello. (0:32) Yeah. (0:32) Yeah.(0:32) I'm so excited to meet you Julia Campisi. (0:36) Is that it? (0:38) All right. (0:40) So it's so nice to meet you, well, digitally, of course, I am so excited to finally have (0:46) on the show, not only a Designer, a Photographer, but a Sculptor as well.(0:52) So that's really awesome. (0:55) So thank you for being here. (0:58) Let's take a deep dive into your creative practice.(1:01) You originally studied Political Science and thought there was something missing. (1:06) So you studied photography in Montreal, and then returned to Toronto, working as a collage (1:12) artist and designer. (1:14) Yeah, so it's a wild little history.(1:16) I was studying Political Science. (1:18) And by my thesis year, I sort of started asking myself, well, you know, the system is so broken, (1:26) everything sort of moves in circles. (1:29) It's just a headache.(1:31) Like what, what am I going to do? (1:33) And at that point, I was like, I'm not going to become a lawyer. (1:36) And for some reason, those were the only two avenues I could see with the poli sci. (1:43) And so I wasn't going to go into politics.(1:45) And I didn't at the time want to be a lawyer. (1:49) And so I had two roommates who were studying art at McMaster. (1:54) And I just started doing their projects on my spare time.(1:59) So as I was writing my thesis, and as I was working, you know, full time, I was also making Art. (2:07) And I noticed my roommate, she was just so naturally like gifted at drawing. (2:13) So for me, I wanted to find something that I was naturally good at and could access.(2:21) And to me, that was photography. (2:23) And so I moved back to Toronto. (2:27) And it wasn't until I started working at Fashion Magazine, did I think that I could even go to school for Photography.(2:36) And that was, you know, at the, you know, I don't know what the right word is. (2:42) But the woman I was working under at the time said that I would really benefit from education in Photography. (2:48) So I was like, Oh, I didn't even really know that.(2:50) So I tried to avoid it. (2:52) And I did workshops with photographers and whatever. (2:55) But then finally, I got my stuff together.(2:57) And I did go back to school. (3:01) And I studied at Concordia. (3:04) And then I had to move back to Toronto.(3:07) And I finished studying at Ryerson, TMU now. (3:13) And then yeah, it's kind of been like an up and down. (3:17) I had like, I think most artists do like 20 different jobs and wore 20 different hats.(3:23) And was, you know, not sure how I was going to make anything work. (3:27) I was photographing events. (3:29) I was photographing for magazines.(3:31) But then I was also making collages. (3:34) And then I decided, you know, maybe I'll get a quote unquote real job. (3:38) And I worked in the financial sector for a little while where I ended up designing an office.(3:43) And becoming the creative lead, generating business for, you know, that company. (3:50) And then moving into working for Gucci. (3:53) Like, it was just this like, really weird time where I was just trying to grab at anything, (4:01) maybe, I would say, or just see where things were landing.(4:05) And you know, at the end of the day, it was really all about two, like, (4:09) how can I make a living and do things that I love? (4:12) And, you know, unfortunately, art just kept pulling me back. (4:18) So yeah, 2019, I just kind of was like, okay, like, how serious am I? (4:24) And I got a studio. (4:26) And that sort of started to change everything for me.(4:30) And I started to really then move into making sculpture. (4:34) And the primary reason for that is because I had space. (4:39) So throughout my studies of photography, I was always interested in sculpture (4:44) and manipulating the image to be something that it wasn't.(4:49) And I was always more interested in like, the non image than the image. (4:56) So I think it was like, easy for me to start sculpting. (5:05) That also sort of came quite naturally to me.(5:08) And I think it's because it gave me like another way to use (5:14) photographic language or ideas about photography and put it into concrete material (5:18) and sort of move in different directions without actually using images. (5:26) So like, for me, acrylic sort of started to become this like lens, (5:31) just like the camera lens that you could hear through (5:34) and sort of distort more of what you're looking at, (5:37) which I really felt was true to what photographs did. (5:42) Yeah, colouring and finding different colour patterns really replicated (5:46) what I was doing at Concordia in the colour darkroom.(5:51) And so colour has become like a really big thing in my practice now. (5:57) Or the lack thereof, really. (6:06) Well, this kind of little bit of a segue into the first question is, (6:10) I like to ask all artists, what made you choose this career path? (6:15) Was it your love of self expression, working with your hands, (6:19) or your emotional insights? (6:22) I don't know, because I would never recommend anyone to be an artist.(6:27) It's so hard. (6:30) I think it's just like this thing that there's nothing else that I can do. (6:37) Um, that really, (6:42) Yeah, I guess I kind of, I guess you kind of sort of already answered that question (6:46) with the how you transitioned, right from from the poli sci into, into (6:56) Yeah, like it sort of just happened.(6:58) And then, you know, I think once you're supposed to sort of (7:01) start doing something with your life, (7:03) or you feel like you have to do something with your life, (7:06) you just kind of have to follow that path and go for it. (7:09) Um, art, art is like, maybe one of those things like, I don't know, (7:15) it's just so much harder. (7:16) It's like, you know, trying to be playing for the NHL, (7:19) only really five people are lucky enough to do it out of the hundreds and thousands.(7:23) And, you know, I've been lucky and, you know, have done some stuff, (7:29) which is amazing. (7:30) And I think it's just like, I've always been asking this question, (7:34) why, and searching for answers, or looking for answers, (7:38) or looking for questions to answer. (7:42) And for me, art is a way for me to sort of answer those questions (7:47) that I find in our society.(7:49) So even using the critical mind and analytical mind that I developed at McMaster, (7:55) with how to think about the world, (8:00) uh, art sort of lets me do that, um, (8:04) without the pressure of like, having to instill and change policy, (8:09) or like, become a lawyer, if that makes sense. (8:13) Yeah. (8:17) Yeah, it's more of the practical, pragmatic approach with lawyers.(8:24) Yeah, that's sort of it, right? (8:25) Even though, you know, with Art, you still, (8:28) I think most artists feel this way too, (8:31) where they do put limitations, or boundaries, (8:34) or even non-boundaries, boundary on what they can and can't do. (8:38) And so I think it is quite similar. (8:41) There are more similarities to that than not.(8:44) And I think that, you know, people who are interested in the world (8:50) do tend to just gravitate to art, (8:53) because it's a way to express what's happening (8:56) in a way that's accessible, (8:59) and not, you know, hard to follow, (9:03) and is actually aesthetically pleasing. (9:13) Yeah, it's a way to communicate to the world (9:18) what you feel about what's happening around you kind of thing, (9:23) but without having to follow real rules, (9:26) other than the ones you set for yourself. (9:27) The need for control.(9:36) You work with industrial motifs (9:39) and tools that you encounter in your daily life. (9:44) Fixating your work on why we exist and what we overlook (9:48) can help define who we are. (9:51) Can you expand on how you feel your work resonates (9:54) and communicates this? (9:56) Yeah, so I think for me, (10:00) I always think about what's going to happen (10:04) you know, a million years from now.(10:07) And I think about what we hold now in our museums (10:11) to sort of tell us about past civilizations (10:15) and how they lived. (10:17) And there's a lot of speculation that we have to make (10:20) around, you know, how people lived (10:24) and what they did and how they evolved (10:26) and how we evolved into where we are right now. (10:29) But the one thing that holds true, (10:31) and the one thing that has translated throughout history (10:35) has actually been the tools that they were using.(10:43) And we actually find them so valuable (10:46) that we put them in museums all over the world (10:50) and sort of, you know, protect them and observe them (10:54) and, you know, keep them so we can learn. (10:59) And so when I started thinking about the construction motif (11:05) or the delivery motif and stuff like that, (11:09) it was really at a time when COVID hit (11:12) and I started to think about, you know, (11:14) this moment in time that we're in (11:16) and this sort of level of consumption of delivery (11:19) that we require to sort of sustain ourselves (11:23) while we isolate. (11:26) And so that's sort of where it started.(11:29) And it started with the pallet (11:30) because, you know, the pallet has been a tool (11:34) that's been used for centuries (11:36) and has not changed and it's not evolved. (11:38) Maybe some pallets I've seen are made out of plastic, (11:42) but the majority of pallets are made out of wood. (11:46) They're so discarded afterwards, (11:47) but they're so required to actually, you know, (11:51) extend our bodies so we can deliver things, (11:53) whether they be extravagant or really, you know, a doorknob, (12:00) which I guess could be extravagant to ourselves.(12:06) And so I started to think about, you know, (12:11) what is going to be left of us once we're gone. (12:14) And it's going to be all this stuff that defined our city, (12:19) specifically, you know, really focusing in on Toronto (12:23) and the development of Toronto. (12:24) Toronto has been going through an intense maze of development.(12:30) And, you know, space is so unequal (12:33) and so hard to come by and so expensive. (12:38) And, you know, we just keep building. (12:42) So it was really just about like, (12:45) once these things are sort of left behind (12:47) or once we're gone and these things are left behind, (12:50) what are people going to say? (12:52) And then I started thinking about, (12:54) well, how interesting would it be (12:57) if they found my palette beside an actual palette? (13:03) And how would that confuse future archaeologists? (13:10) Yeah, so, you know, which one? (13:13) Because mine is probably going to, you know, (13:18) stand the test of time, maybe a little longer (13:21) than the wood one, you know, (13:23) like where's all this stuff going to go? (13:26) And so what's going to get kept and what's going to be discarded? (13:29) Are we going to have palettes in museums (13:31) a million years from now? I don't know.(13:44) A number of years ago for the artist project, (13:47) you were reducing and embellishing women (13:50) to pure figurative line work (13:52) that has carried throughout the centuries (13:56) using sexual imagery and motifs that from various objects, (14:02) you created a silhouette in your body of work. (14:05) Have you continued with this style in your current work? (14:09) Or has it evolved? (14:10) Yeah, I think when I was, I was doing that work in 2016. (14:16) And so I think it evolves because I was trying to find ways (14:20) to sort of gain agency over the female image (14:25) without really, you know, taking images (14:31) that men had taken of women and sort of reconfiguring them (14:34) in ways that were, you know, my own.(14:38) And, you know, I found that the process of what I was doing, (14:41) the actual physical act of cutting, (14:44) and, you know, you even used to do work reducing (14:48) could start becoming problematic. (14:50) And I sort of took some time to realize (14:53) that I really wasn't doing anything different. (14:56) A woman's body on display to me is a woman's body on display, (15:00) whether it's, you know, disconfigured, reconfigured, (15:04) or, you know, just shown.(15:07) So I sort of started to evolve. (15:13) And that's where color started to become really important. (15:17) And though for me, like my practice lately (15:20) has been dominated by pink, (15:23) I really wanted to go beyond gender when thinking about pink.(15:30) But unfortunately, that's not possible. (15:33) I think we're sort of, you know, (15:37) really stuck on that pink means feminine, (15:39) and my work really does. (15:40) And I'm not upset about this.(15:43) Comes from like this sort of feminist perspective. (15:47) But also from a perspective that's very, like, (15:53) what's the word? (15:55) Cliché, like it's quite cliché. (15:58) But then it's kind of funny to put something (16:00) that's so clichéd feminine onto objects (16:03) that are so obviously not feminine (16:05) and aren't ever associated with femininity.(16:09) And so I think that, you know, (16:12) trying to get away from actually displaying the female body (16:15) and sort of taking the ideas of femininity (16:19) and placing them onto other things that weren't feminine (16:22) seemed to be more productive (16:26) in sort of advancing ideas about being a woman (16:30) and what it means. (16:32) And also, you know, for me, (16:34) pink is like this really calming tone. (16:37) So it really like, (16:39) it's actually been proven to lower your heart rate.(16:42) And so when your heart rate's lowered and you're relaxed, (16:45) maybe we can start thinking about (16:47) these pink objects in a different way. (16:55) Yeah, just a different context (16:57) and we'll give it a different meaning. (17:01) You know, it's a great idea with pink.(17:05) Because pink, yeah, pink and blue. (17:07) I'm so sick of the pink means girl and blue means boy. (17:11) That's like, it's everywhere.(17:12) It's even- (17:12) Yeah, no, it's true. (17:14) And, you know, I have a side, (17:15) I just had a side and we've been like (17:17) really trying hard to, (17:20) well, not trying, we don't try super hard. (17:22) But, you know, a lot of our clothing (17:24) is pretty gender neutral.(17:26) But, you know, his first word is blue. (17:29) And I'm just like, are you kidding? (17:32) It's like, so we have these smart lights (17:34) and he points to the smart light (17:37) and he's like, blue, blue, blue. (17:40) And I'm like, oh, okay, well, there we go.(17:43) Huh? (17:46) Well, that's kind of funny though, (17:48) because like color is so important to you, right? (17:50) So it kind of makes sense that- (17:52) Color, yeah, still hasn't said mom or dad, (17:56) but he will forever say blue or blah, blah. (18:00) It's like he's French. (18:05) Oh, that's funny.(18:08) While researching you, (18:10) the piece that you have on akimbo (18:12) really stood out to me, (18:13) probably because of my knowledge of art history. (18:18) By this, I mean Malevich's White on White. (18:21) I know it seems like a hundred years ago, (18:23) but do you consider your work in relation to art history (18:27) and how it connects or correlates? (18:30) Yeah, I think when you say akimbo, (18:32) are you talking about the Nomara show (18:34) that happened last summer in July (18:37) with all the clear cast resin pieces? (18:42) Yeah, okay, so I think that is it.(18:46) Yeah, so I'm familiar with that work (18:49) and the ideas that were being explored by him (18:57) are definitely different than the ideas (18:59) that I'm exploring now, (19:01) but in consideration to, (19:06) I think it's kind of hard to say, (19:12) where I am in relation to art history, (19:14) because I'm not really making ready-mades at all. (19:20) I'm sort of fabricating stand-ins (19:24) that are blurring reality and artifice (19:28) and then engaging with photography's role (19:32) in constructing perception (19:33) and then how material constructs how we see things. (19:39) And then that show specifically (19:41) was really interested in the labor of looking.(19:47) But if anything, I think there's this like, (19:51) I share sort of an affinity with that minimalism (19:55) and its formal clarity (19:57) and sort of the material specificity that I use. (20:05) Yeah, I think that's kind of what I think about this. (20:11) It's sort of hard to say.(20:14) I am interested in, (20:18) if I had to say what work interests me the most (20:21) or what inspires me the most, (20:22) it is conceptualism. (20:24) And it is that idea and that piece, (20:28) White on White, (20:29) with this sense of floating and transience. (20:31) I sort of liked creating that in the gallery space (20:34) where when you walked in, (20:35) you actually couldn't see anything.(20:38) And it took time for the exhibition (20:41) to actually reveal itself to you (20:43) because your eyes actually needed to do work (20:46) to adjust, to transition from one space to another (20:51) so you could see. (20:55) And so where does that fit in our history? (20:59) I'm not too certain (21:02) because to be honest, (21:03) I only really studied like Renaissance art. (21:08) I never really studied artworks (21:12) from like the 60s onwards.(21:15) And so I have this sort of naive approach to sculpture (21:20) and it's like history, (21:21) which I think sort of benefits me, (21:25) but also could probably hinder me as well (21:30) because I just go in and make (21:32) and there's nothing really that holds me back (21:37) because I think it might be wrong (21:39) or it's been done before or stuff like that. (21:42) And we'll be right back. (21:51) But it's good to be sort of innocent of, (21:54) or not innocent, (21:55) but not knowledgeable on all those movements (21:58) and artists that came before you (22:00) because then it kind of stops you from exploring (22:04) what is available out there for you, right? (22:07) It's kind of limiting in a way, (22:08) I find the more you know.(22:10) The less you do, maybe. (22:13) The less, yeah, like the less you do (22:15) and you're more restrictive of yourself (22:17) because you think, (22:17) oh, this has been done and this has been done. (22:19) And so the less you know, (22:22) then the more I find, (22:24) the more free you are to just explore (22:25) and see what you can make on your own.(22:29) That's new and original. (22:32) Yeah, that's definitely something I'm really into doing. (22:36) And I'm really also interested in like, (22:39) you know, changing the hierarchy of material (22:43) and just really focusing in on, (22:48) you know, using materials that, (22:52) you know, don't get as much attention (22:54) as maybe a marble or a bronze does.(22:58) And so that's what I'm interested in. (23:01) But so I have to say that I don't research artists (23:03) and have, you know, artists that I look up to (23:07) and that I admire specifically like female artists (23:11) or movements that I like am drawn to. (23:15) But yeah, that's, I sort of try to stay away (23:19) from how my work relates to art history (23:24) because like, I think that's like, (23:25) maybe an impossible question to answer.(23:33) Yeah, really, because it's in a way, (23:35) even if you don't know about it, (23:36) you intrinsically kind of do (23:38) because just exploring as an artist different mediums, (23:42) you're gonna run into the similar sort of styles (23:46) and techniques of artists from the past, (23:49) no matter what, right? (23:50) So there's, you can't really identify that (23:53) unless you, I don't know, (23:56) unless you really, really just, I don't know, (23:59) you'd have to really pull a lot apart (24:02) to find what could be there, right? (24:06) Yeah, well, for me, yeah. (24:09) And for me, a lot of my knowledge (24:13) comes from photography, right? (24:15) So I'm still very into the idea of photography (24:19) and the theory and the photographers (24:21) that sort of came before me. (24:22) I always find myself more sort of drawn to that.(24:27) I feel a little bit more secure there, I guess. (24:31) But, you know, with that being said, (24:33) there are still some sculptures (24:34) that I like, I'm obsessed with. (24:37) And like with Rachel, I think her last name's Whitehead.(24:41) She just did like a resin door. (24:44) Well, not just, she's had the resin door done since 2011. (24:49) And I just find it just so interesting (24:53) how, you know, ideas float up (24:56) and then you find out about them later, (24:58) like five years after you've been like (25:00) rigorously working with a single material.(25:03) And there's this very famous artist (25:06) who's been working with it for quite some time. (25:10) And so that stuff really interests me as well. (25:13) Your piece titled, oh.(25:17) White Reed, sorry, is her last name. (25:20) Rachel White Reed, I apologize. (25:23) So your piece titled Memory, (25:29) described as an arrangement of ideas (25:32) from the past coming together to form daffodils, (25:36) reflecting the uncertainty of the future (25:38) with the return of affection (25:40) and design for new beginnings.(25:44) This is, oh, sorry, and desires, (25:48) and desire for new beginnings. (25:50) This is an impressive sculpture (25:53) that is on display at Baycrest Hospital in Toronto. (25:57) Can you share with our audience how this came about? (26:01) Did you know you wanted to do an installation on the brain (26:04) and it just happened to coincide with the hospital? (26:07) Or was it more of an organic process? (26:13) Uh, so Baycrest does the Brain Project every year.(26:18) And they invite artists to come and sort of (26:25) do something to the brain-shaped sculpture. (26:29) And it's in response to dementia. (26:33) And so for me, when I was asked to do this project, (26:42) it just came so naturally (26:45) because I was also making a lot of collages at this time (26:49) to like, you know, I can't imagine what it's like (26:53) to go through dementia and to lose memory.(26:56) So I wanted to sort of bring (26:59) as many photographic images together in one. (27:05) And so they came together (27:09) and I like cut each image into the form of a daffodil. (27:16) And the daffodil was really this idea of like hope and rebirth, (27:21) which I think, you know, (27:24) we all have when watching someone go through something like that.(27:31) It's a transitional phase (27:33) and it's very hard to deal with and very scary to watch. (27:36) And even for the person going through it, (27:38) it was really to bring attention to that. (27:40) And then just to sort of talk about the idea of photographic memory (27:45) and, you know, how that's a memory that we don't really tap into.(27:51) But, you know, when we're recalling a memory, (27:53) for me anyway, I'm like looking back for the image of the day (27:56) and like what it was like. (27:58) And I'm like, oh yeah, that happened. (27:59) And so they asked me to do it.(28:02) I think it actually went to auction. (28:04) So I think it's actually in someone's home. (28:06) I don't think it's at the hospital.(28:10) I think someone actually purchased it. (28:14) Yeah, so that and that was also a while ago. (28:18) That was a really long time ago.(28:21) That was probably 2017. (28:23) That's not too long ago. (28:24) I mean, it is quite a while, (28:25) but the internet keeps records of everything.(28:30) It does. (28:31) And it's so funny because, you know, (28:34) it just seems like such a different point (28:36) in like what I was doing and what I was creating at that time. (28:42) So yeah, it was hard to recall.(28:44) Yeah, it can seem like a million years ago, (28:47) especially creatively, (28:48) like if you're in a very different place. (28:55) Seeing your Instagram account that has many images (28:58) containing the color pink. (28:59) See, we just talked about this.(29:02) But I guess this may be a little bit different. (29:04) Your work is described as a fragmented inventory (29:08) of representing the female. (29:10) How do you see your work (29:12) as bringing a distinctly new perspective (29:14) to female representation? (29:17) Is it using your mediums (29:19) or the meaning they convey through juxtaposition (29:23) or something else? (29:27) Yeah, so I guess like, (29:30) how do you talk about being a woman (29:32) without displaying a woman's body (29:34) or doing women's work (29:36) or showing female objects (29:43) or just repositioning them? (29:46) Like what's sort of new? (29:47) And when I started from those questions (29:51) and that standpoint, (29:54) pink just became this like obvious thing, (30:00) tool that I could use.(30:02) And so yeah, we did talk about it. (30:04) So I don't think I need to keep going back. (30:06) But like pink became this way for me (30:08) to sort of explore the ideas, (30:10) like all these ideas that I have (30:12) about femininity (30:15) and like what we put on ourselves as women (30:18) and what we do (30:19) and really not have to objectify anyone anymore.(30:28) And so it's like this question of agency, (30:30) like, oh, if I take photos (30:32) and I'm regaining agency, (30:33) I had a huge problem with this. (30:36) And I'm taking these photos (30:37) and they're of women (30:38) and I'm repositioning them (30:40) and I'm a woman. (30:41) And I'm like, wait, (30:41) you're not really doing anything different (30:43) because people are still drooling.(30:47) You know, like what's really changed? (30:49) I don't think enough, (30:52) like something obviously has. (30:53) And I think there was a time and place for that (30:55) in like the 70s, maybe an 80s, even the 90s. (31:01) But now I think it's like so much, (31:04) it's so redundant, it's been done.(31:06) And if we still want to talk about being a woman, (31:09) we have to find sort of new progressive ways (31:13) of sort of exploring that. (31:15) Or maybe we don't, you know, (31:16) I don't want to put anything on anyone. (31:18) I think it's just mainly for me.(31:21) And so how am I going to do that? (31:22) And what am I going to do? (31:25) And I think, you know, (31:27) it sort of started out as pink (31:29) and my last show was actually completely void of color. (31:36) And in doing that, (31:39) I really wanted to know if I could talk about (31:41) what I've been thinking about in ways (31:44) without sort of using pink. (31:48) And it ended up becoming something completely different, (31:52) which I'm not like upset about.(31:54) It's something that I've been actually like ruminating over (31:57) for the past like six months (31:59) and really haven't made any other work since. (32:01) Because, you know, (32:03) now I'm sort of at this like crossroads (32:05) where I just don't think I can make it. (32:10) You killed pink, did you? (32:13) I don't know.(32:17) I don't know if I did or didn't. (32:19) I don't know what I did to it, (32:21) but I did something, that's for sure. (32:24) And now it's sort of more about like focusing on, (32:29) you know, labor.(32:32) Labor for me has been like really important (32:35) in like labor as a woman, labor as birth, (32:38) labor as physical, labor as sight. (32:43) And so how do I like think about labor (32:45) and labor as being feminine (32:47) and like the labor that women do (32:49) and the work that women do. (32:54) And so, yeah, I guess my ideas (32:55) have sort of changed from what they sort of were (33:01) starting out like six, five years ago, (33:04) five and a half years ago.(33:07) Yeah. (33:08) And like Photography is starting (33:10) to make a really big impression on me. (33:13) I think it was lost for a long time.(33:15) I was sort of using Photography (33:17) as like a research tool (33:19) where I would start off by, (33:22) you know, documenting things in the street (33:26) and sort of bringing those images back (33:28) and just using them as research. (33:29) But now I'm like thinking about photography (33:32) as part of the installation (33:35) and part of the exhibit, (33:38) you know, and kind of bringing Photography (33:41) back into my practice. (33:44) It's a tool in your toolbox.(33:48) Yeah. (33:50) Moving through these three (33:53) uniquely different fields, (33:54) Photography, Collage and Design, (33:57) do you see they work together? (33:59) Separately? (34:00) Or are they in your back pocket (34:02) until they surface in your creative practice? (34:05) In other words, are they congruent tools (34:08) or all in your creative toolbox? (34:17) Yeah, I think I like kind of keep them tucked away (34:20) until I see a purpose for them again. (34:24) It's interesting that you say design (34:26) because I don't know (34:29) if my sculptures are design objects (34:32) or if they're contemporary art objects.(34:36) I guess I should put four in there, right? (34:38) Photography, Collage, Design and Sculpture. (34:41) Well, yeah, I haven't really been designing, (34:43) but actually it's interesting (34:44) because I am getting back into design right now. (34:46) I'm designing.(34:47) I have a collaboration coming up this summer (34:50) with a homeware company. (34:54) So I'm doing something small there. (34:57) And so, yeah, I think everything (35:02) is kind of what it is until, (35:06) or is nothing until it is something.(35:09) And so I sort of move freely between each thing. (35:15) I think now in the past like five years, (35:19) it's become more structured and more intentional. (35:24) Whereas before I felt like I was maybe (35:27) just trying to grasp onto something.(35:29) Now I just don't, I don't feel that way. (35:33) I think that everything serves its purpose. (35:35) So if I need it, I have it (35:37) and I sort of let it do what it needs to do.(35:40) And that's sort of what I was saying about the images now. (35:43) Like for me, photography is like front and center again, (35:47) which is just not something I would have thought of (35:52) like even a year ago. (35:54) Mm-hmm.(35:58) Well, you have it when you need it, right? (36:02) Yeah. (36:02) And maybe you just didn't think, (36:04) you didn't know you were going to need it until now, so. (36:08) Yeah.(36:09) While researching you, I saw your writings (36:13) that are critiques on other artists. (36:16) Have you published these previously (36:18) or are they side projects on your website (36:21) as another art form? (36:23) Are you framing your critiques to be critiqued (36:27) they are unique ways to contextualize (36:30) your perspectives of contemporary art. (36:33) What reactions have they created for you? (36:35) Was it what you were looking for? (36:40) So yeah, so I have this little section on my website (36:44) that I don't, I didn't realize that people went to.(36:47) I love writing. (36:49) I've always been a writer. (36:51) I've been writing since forever.(36:53) And it's something that I kind of just do for myself. (36:58) And it's something that I did a lot more, (37:02) probably like eight years ago than I do now. (37:05) I wrote a couple pieces for Art Viewer.(37:08) And then unfortunately, the magazine died with the pandemic, (37:12) which was so sad because we were just starting (37:14) such a great relationship. (37:18) And I would have loved to see sort of where (37:21) it could have gone with critique in art (37:23) because I do find that like critiquing shows in Toronto (37:27) is something that just doesn't happen. (37:30) Everyone's just like, oh yes, that was amazing.(37:33) And the artist placed the painting on the wall (37:36) and it was of this. (37:37) And then it's like a regurgitation (37:38) of like their artist statement. (37:42) So like, I really think that like the city's missing that.(37:47) And it would have been amazing if, (37:52) you know, I could have continued, (37:53) but you know, whatever it is what it is. (37:56) And I haven't really dived back into finding another space (38:00) to write for or think for, but yeah, (38:03) writing is like one of my favorite, favorite things, (38:06) but it's something that I do as like a hobby. (38:10) I guess that's my hobby.(38:12) I think writing is my hobby. (38:14) Well, yeah, and you could totally, (38:16) I think you could totally find another way, (38:18) place to do that. (38:20) Cause like you said, Toronto needs that (38:22) cause they're just all nicey nice and like, (38:24) oh, it's so perfect.(38:26) And it's like, you need to critique each other. (38:29) Yeah. (38:29) Say, no, this is garbage or why, you know, (38:32) or you could have, you know, (38:33) you could work on this or whatever.(38:35) Or it was great. (38:36) And this is why it was great. (38:39) So that's also a thing.(38:40) Like if there is a great show (38:42) and if there is something that's like so amazing, (38:45) it's so awesome. (38:46) Like, can we explain why, you know, (38:49) like why are we like gatekeeping it for just ourselves? (38:53) Like, you know. (38:55) Yeah.Not just regurgitate what the artist said. (38:57) Yeah. Yeah.(38:59) So I'm hoping that there's a return to that, (39:00) but you know, funding is funding continually (39:03) and continually gets cut and cut and cut. (39:05) And you know, things like that happen. (39:08) It's harder and harder to find news outlets (39:11) that even like people who, you know, (39:14) I find that a lot of art in Toronto (39:15) is made for a lot of the artists in Toronto (39:18) because, you know, a lot of people don't really, (39:21) even in the city, access contemporary art.(39:25) So how do we break that? (39:27) I had a lot of conversations with other people around that, (39:30) but, you know, we haven't found the answers yet. (39:35) Yeah. That's something to really be figured out (39:39) because it's like, it's not just art for artists.(39:41) It's art for everybody. (39:43) Yeah. It's true.(39:44) Yeah. That's definitely something to figure out for sure. (39:50) I saw that you shared how you live (39:53) in a 350 square foot apartment in Toronto (39:57) with Toronto Life Magazine.(40:00) What was that like to share your living situation? (40:04) Did you not find it a bit intrusive (40:06) to be inviting the public into your home? (40:09) Did you see this as a marketing tool, (40:11) a way to advertise your skills and creativity? (40:15) Has it had the desired effect? (40:18) Also, that was a while ago. (40:19) So I haven't lived in that apartment for a little bit (40:23) and I love that apartment. (40:26) And I only realized how small that apartment was (40:29) during the pandemic.(40:30) And I was like, oh my God, I have to move. (40:36) And so I, for me, it was like not really intrusive at all. (40:44) And I actually made a friend (40:46) from the photographer who shot it.(40:48) And there's a couple of things that they like misprinted. (40:54) And then it was just so weird. (40:57) But no, not intrusive at all.(40:59) Like it was actually like quite welcoming. (41:02) And yeah, it was nice to have a little piece of press. (41:07) But yeah, no, it was great.(41:13) Did you see it as a way to sort of market your skills (41:17) in a sense or was it entire? (41:21) Oh, I think so. (41:22) Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. (41:24) Like it was, you know, but I only like, (41:29) for like designing spaces, (41:30) I've only really designed like a handful of spaces.(41:33) I've never really went full on into design. (41:37) I kind of like started and then just, (41:42) like I keep saying, art just keeps pulling me back. (41:45) Like I've tried so hard not to be an artist.(41:50) So like, it's like, you know, (41:53) and so it didn't really like do, I guess like, yeah, (41:56) maybe if I really wanted to be a Designer, (41:59) I yeah, I would have done that. (42:02) It would have been really helpful for sure. (42:05) What are your thoughts on artificial intelligence (42:08) and how it seems to be taking over parts (42:10) of the contemporary art sphere? (42:14) Are creatives replaceable by computers (42:17) or will artists always have a niche market? (42:21) How do you see creatives being able to survive? (42:24) Does their work have a much deeper meaning and context? (42:33) I think it's gonna be really hard for creatives to survive, (42:36) but I don't think that's like an AI problem.(42:40) I think that's like a funding problem. (42:44) I don't know how we're gonna have (42:46) a thriving arts community in Toronto with no funding (42:50) or no market and, you know, community (42:54) that is just like kind of tired of doing things for free (42:58) and then having no support (43:02) or institutions come behind them. (43:06) I kind of love AI.(43:08) I really love Chat GPT, which I'm sure, you know, (43:12) it's probably not a popular thing to say, (43:16) but I find it like for me, (43:18) it's really helpful in organizing my thoughts (43:23) and what I'm trying to say and how I'm trying to say it, (43:26) especially because I do tend to fly off the cuff. (43:30) So if I need to like write an email, (43:32) I'm just like, okay, I write it. (43:34) And then I'm like, can this be better? (43:36) And I asked my little robot and it says, yes, it can.(43:40) And here's how, and I'm like, not upset about that. (43:45) And I don't think artificial intelligence (43:47) will take over painting. (43:49) Like when you see a painting in real life, (43:53) like I think there'll be generative Art, of course, (43:55) like there already is, but, you know, there's a feeling (44:02) and you can't take that away.(44:05) And, you know, unless you create a robot, (44:07) that's Picasso, you know, that'd be cool. (44:11) And then that would be what that is. (44:13) But I always think there's gonna be room for Art, (44:16) but I think the more important like reason (44:18) as to why Art will not survive, (44:21) especially in Toronto will be more to do (44:24) with like support and funding and, you know, market.(44:30) Not AI. (44:30) Yeah, do you think just sort of the public (44:33) is gonna just cut the funding for all of the Art (44:39) in the city eventually? (44:41) Like if you think that that actually could happen? (44:45) Well, I think it's just getting less and less and less (44:47) and the mandates are changing. (44:49) So there's certain people who just can't (44:51) even access grants anymore.(44:53) And, you know, so it's just, you know, (44:57) there's less and less and less money (44:59) than there's gonna be less and less and less art. (45:03) And that's just, you know, a fact we don't live in a, (45:07) you know, in the US they're more based (45:09) on like philanthropic funding and, you know, (45:13) foundations and stuff like that in Canada. (45:15) We don't have foundations as widespread (45:18) as they do in the US.(45:21) We rely on government funding (45:23) on all provincial, national and local levels. (45:28) Yeah, that's true. (45:30) And we'll be right back.(45:41) So it's just a different model that we live in, (45:43) that we like exist in. (45:45) And within that model, if you just keep taking it all away, (45:48) like I think the Toronto Arts Grant, (45:51) I think I could pull it up. (45:54) I just applied to a grant and did not get it.(45:58) So I can tell you what the, nevermind. (46:01) But it was something like they were like, (46:03) I don't know, 91 people applied for the grant (46:08) and only 15 people got it. (46:10) And the 91 people were asking for close (46:13) to a million dollars or something.(46:15) And they only ended up giving out $150,000. (46:22) So it's like just so, so it's just, you know, (46:26) just very competitive, I guess. (46:28) And quite a bit smaller, full of available options, right? (46:34) Yeah.(46:35) So if you don't, if you don't get that grant, (46:37) and it's not like these grants are like (46:39) giving you a living wage either, right? (46:41) It's, you're like, oh, okay, I can scrape by (46:43) for four more months, right? (46:45) You know, it's still, yeah. (46:49) Yeah, it's not really solving any problems. (46:52) Not really, you know.(46:54) Anyway, I can go on about this forever (46:57) and I probably shouldn't. (46:59) Yeah, you want to go towards or go into it (47:02) with positive, positive vibes and maybe someday, right? (47:06) Yes. (47:07) The energy will change in your favor.(47:09) Yeah. (47:11) Well, no, I have gotten grants in the past. (47:13) So I shouldn't say that, like I haven't.(47:15) I have. (47:16) Yeah, no, it is. (47:17) It's just, I've just, you know, come to the realization (47:20) that it's not something you can rely on.(47:24) No. (47:25) So it's hard because, you know, you have to. (47:28) Anyway, like I said, I could keep going on.(47:31) I just shouldn't. (47:32) Next question. (47:35) Yay.(47:39) I Want to Eat Your Sky is the name of one of your pieces (47:42) and the name of this podcast (47:45) that is steeped in femininity and fragility. (47:48) Can you share with our audience how this piece came about? (47:52) Is it part of a series? (47:54) Do you see your work as resonating (47:56) with any particular groups? (47:59) And does your work question any normative practices (48:03) or context in mediums or subject? (48:08) Okay, so I guess with I Want to Eat Your Sky, (48:14) I was, it was during the pandemic (48:16) that I made that body of work. (48:18) And I found that the only moment of time (48:22) that felt real was sunset (48:25) because it was the only marker (48:27) that I could really rely on every day.(48:30) So I felt like it was like the same (48:33) and nothing was changing, (48:35) but the sunset, I knew something was happening. (48:39) So it became this really important marker of time for me, (48:42) especially because I was spending so much time by myself. (48:48) And I was like, definitely one of the people (48:51) who was very cautious during the pandemic, (48:56) like during lockdown and like wore a mask (48:58) and washed my groceries before they came to the house.(49:03) And, you know, did all those things, (49:04) like actually stayed home for 14 days straight. (49:07) You know, like it was just, oh, it was so intense. (49:10) Like, but I think back to it.(49:12) Yeah. (49:18) And so, yeah, so I was like finally escaping to my studio (49:23) and we had like time slots (49:25) because I was sharing my studio at the time. (49:28) And when we could go or, you know, who we were like, (49:31) we were always in communication.(49:32) Who were you in contact with? (49:34) Like, what are you doing? (49:35) Like, you know, it was really important. (49:37) And so the sunset became this like marker (49:40) and I just felt like it was really important to document it. (49:44) And because there was like nothing going on, (49:47) I just started painting.(49:49) So I would paint these sunsets (49:53) and I was making like hydrocal molds with my hand (50:01) and I was attaching them to the paintings, (50:06) like on the side of the wall, (50:08) like they were like trying to touch it. (50:12) And yeah, that's sort of how that came about. (50:17) So could you explain hydrocal as a medium? (50:22) Oh yeah, it's like a, yeah, it's like a cement.(50:26) It's like a form of concrete cement and it's like white. (50:30) And I would sand away all the details in my hands. (50:34) Like if you touched it, it was like buttery soft.(50:38) And so I would work on these hands (50:40) and then I would spray the, (50:41) I would do so much to them to make them like cure, (50:45) like they would almost fall into the wall. (50:48) And then yeah, they would be on their own, (50:51) like really close to the painting. (50:53) Oh, cool.(50:55) And yeah, and then I was doing like crazy layers (50:59) and like really like a lot, (51:01) like there were washes and washes and washes of color. (51:05) And I was probably using like 15 different colors (51:09) to make the sunset. (51:14) And it was more of a therapeutic thing for me, (51:18) I think rather than a, like I'm gonna be a painter now.(51:23) Like how kind of writing is my hobby, (51:25) maybe painting sunsets is too. (51:31) And yeah. (51:32) That's really good too.(51:34) That's a good, that's a good hobby. (51:38) Yeah, yeah, thank you. (51:40) Thank you.(51:43) In Akimbo for your one, two, four exhibition, (51:47) you state that you are interested in generating a fantasy, (51:51) not maintaining reality. (51:54) You want to draw out the viewer's judgment, (51:57) have them question their ascribed idea of culture (52:01) through the built environment. (52:04) Can you expand on this? (52:05) Does this mean your art is shifting our ideas (52:09) on cultural norms? (52:10) Or are you asking the viewer to question (52:13) what their fixed social moral codes are standing on? (52:20) Yeah, I think it would have to be like (52:22) the latter part of that question.(52:24) Like what are we fixed on and what are we doing? (52:27) And who are we doing it for? (52:30) And if we're building, what are we building? (52:32) And who are we building this all for? (52:35) Because it doesn't seem like it can be sustained. (52:41) So where is it all going? (52:47) I am interested in generating a fantasy. (52:51) And I think inherently the material that I work with, (52:54) which is resin and acrylic, does just that.(52:58) It's like not real, does not come from the earth. (53:04) It's unnatural. (53:06) And so it has the capability (53:10) of generating a system that isn't real.(53:18) And in creating that system specifically for that show, (53:23) I was able to really eliminate everything around everything. (53:34) And it just really became about the viewer (53:38) and how they encounter the work. (53:44) 124 was really inspired by the ratio of bricklaying.(53:49) And my grandfather was a bricklayer. (53:51) And I think about the arduous task of laying brick (53:55) and building the city. (53:59) And how we have all these bricks around.(54:01) And sometimes some bricks mean more than other bricks. (54:04) And the city deems this brick to be culturally valuable (54:09) and heritage and cannot be moved. (54:12) And if it is moved, it has to be moved very gently, (54:15) but then put right back.(54:17) Whereas other bricks do not hold such status. (54:20) And they're discarded and then turned into rubble. (54:29) And so I think for me, that's kind of something, (54:39) I think we need to look at metaphorically (54:42) where I'm coming from and how we look at things (54:45) and what we deem important and not.(54:48) And then how importance is revealed to us. (54:54) And how come this brick is important, but this brick isn't? (55:00) Why does this one have more meaning or more importance (55:04) than this one? (55:09) Yeah, there's a whole way to quantify that. (55:12) And that's the heritage department's job in Toronto.(55:16) But that's what they do. (55:20) And I just find it really interesting. (55:23) I was really inspired.(55:25) And I have been for so long with the LCBO headquarters (55:31) that's getting totally revamped. (55:34) And how they're keeping this like one section, (55:37) like I think it's 11 acres of land at the LCBO headquarters. (55:41) It's like by Lakeshore.(55:44) And they're keeping like, it's like 11 acres of land. (55:47) And they're keeping just like the facade of one part (55:53) of this 11 acre building. (55:56) Like it's wild.(55:58) And I think the bricks are yellow. (56:01) So I know from history that if you see yellow bricks (56:05) in Toronto, they were more expensive (56:07) because they were fabricated outside of the city. (56:10) And they cost more to come in and whatever.(56:13) But like, why? (56:15) Why are you forcing this developer to keep these bricks? (56:20) And not the whole building? (56:23) You know, it's just so bizarre. (56:25) Well, it's how the city likes to represent symbolism, right? (56:29) It's like, we'll keep just this one little piece (56:32) and then we're representing. (56:35) Then, yeah.(56:37) Yeah, we did it. (56:38) And we've represented, you know, (56:39) whatever historical landmark needs to be there. (56:41) But we still can build around it.(56:44) And, you know. (56:46) Yeah, I have this video of these two workers (56:49) at like King and Bathurst, (56:51) because of how they're doing the Ontario line (56:53) and King and Bathurst is like a huge sort of, (56:57) I think through line. (56:58) I don't know what they're doing.(56:59) They're exactly. (57:01) But I have this video of these two guys on like a scaffold (57:04) and they're removing bricks one by one (57:08) because they have to keep them, obviously. (57:10) But what it's revealing is another brick wall.(57:14) Because a lot of these buildings were insulated, (57:16) but they were double bricked, (57:18) which is like a style of, you know, (57:22) how they built things at that time, like 100 years ago. (57:26) So here are these two guys just taking one brick down at a time (57:30) and then only to reveal another brick. (57:33) And it's like, you know, really, really interesting to me.(57:39) Well, yeah, it just shows you that, yeah, (57:42) they didn't have the money to properly insulate. (57:48) And so the way they did it was to double brick. (57:50) I think that the double brick, (57:53) I don't think insulation was a thing 100 years ago.(57:56) So I guess that was their way of sort of, (58:00) I'd have to do a bit more research. (58:02) But I think that's their way of, you know, insulating (58:06) was to do two bricks (58:08) because they actually didn't have insulation. (58:10) So now in older homes, (58:12) like a lot of older homes in the city (58:15) are that style of the double brick wall.(58:18) And so by code, you take down that wall, (58:22) you have to put insulation in. (58:23) But, you know, what do you put in? (58:25) And then it's about how much are you willing to lose (58:28) in terms of inches, (58:30) because insulation is like four inches thick, (58:32) blah, blah, blah. (58:32) So it's just an interesting process (58:35) when you start taking down walls (58:37) and you start taking down bricks.(58:38) And so One Two Four was really a fantasy (58:44) that was generated by reality (58:47) and what us as a city go through. (58:50) And sort of also this very like arduous act of looking (58:55) which I was really, really happy with. (58:57) And it sort of started to push me into the direction (59:01) that I've always really wanted to go into, (59:03) which was installation.(59:05) And like the power of like creating an installation (59:08) that really stops you in your tracks (59:10) and gets you to think through physical response. (59:15) Like you could actually walk into the gallery (59:18) and you didn't see anything. (59:20) So like my parents, for example, (59:22) were coming to the show and I was meeting them (59:24) and I was running late.(59:27) And I get in and they're standing (59:28) in the middle of the room (59:29) and they're like, Julia, where's the exhibition? (59:32) I thought it was in this room. (59:34) And I was like, it's on the walls. (59:39) I'd like, you know, (59:41) they weren't the first people to do that.(59:43) They were like the fifth. (59:45) They're like, yeah, yeah. (59:49) Yeah.(59:51) You couldn't see it. (59:53) So I kind of like doing funny things like that. (59:56) Do more and more stuff like that.(59:58) Like, wait a minute, somebody stole your Art. (1:00:03) Yeah. (1:00:05) Yeah, no, but it's awesome.(1:00:06) It's more meaningful when you have to explain it (1:00:09) because it's like, you don't get it, you know? (1:00:12) No, it's really good. (1:00:16) Yeah, I really see the profound effect of that (1:00:19) One, Two, Four with the history of your grandpa (1:00:24) and everything. (1:00:26) Yeah, it's cool because, you know, (1:00:28) my parents' backyard (1:00:29) or all the interlocking bricks that he laid, (1:00:32) but also, you know, all over Toronto, (1:00:35) there's so many bricks that my grandfather laid (1:00:38) to help build the city just as one like worker, (1:00:41) you know, in the fifties and sixties.(1:00:47) And how much labor went into that (1:00:49) and sort of that, like, not lost art form (1:00:52) because it's still around. (1:00:54) We still lay bricks. (1:00:57) But, you know, there's not as many people doing it.(1:01:00) And it's not like a whole culture of people. (1:01:02) Like it was a very Italian thing to do. (1:01:06) Well, we've reached the end of the questions (1:01:08) for this interview.(1:01:10) It was a pleasure hearing about how you work (1:01:13) your creative magic. (1:01:14) And if there's anything you would like to add (1:01:16) about your creative practice now is the time. (1:01:20) And especially, I think you reminded me (1:01:22) that a lot of my questions (1:01:23) were sort of kind of quite a while ago.(1:01:26) So you may want to, I don't know, (1:01:28) tell us more of what's actually going on right now. (1:01:31) If there's anything that you'd like to add (1:01:35) about more current sort of works of yours. (1:01:43) Yeah, I'm in the process of like, (1:01:45) sort of thinking about resin as a material (1:01:48) that I can sort of build with (1:01:50) rather than pour into a mold.(1:01:53) And that really excites me. (1:01:54) But I'm in between studios right now. (1:01:57) So once my studio gets up and running, (1:01:59) that's sort of what I'm going to be focusing on.(1:02:01) And I'm getting, you know, (1:02:04) photography back into the work (1:02:09) is another sort of step in creating, (1:02:12) you know, space inside that's from outside. (1:02:18) And sort of trying to still work (1:02:20) with like my immediate surroundings (1:02:22) and inspiration from like the city that I live in (1:02:25) and, you know, nurture that (1:02:27) and, you know, find like little pockets (1:02:30) and secret places that everything's like, (1:02:33) rowing in and bringing it out into, (1:02:36) you know, some new work. (1:02:38) So that's kind of what I'm hoping to do.(1:02:41) And I have some objects that I'm making (1:02:44) for like a home company that I'm excited about, (1:02:50) a design company, sorry. (1:02:53) And yeah, like just trying to find new and exciting ways (1:02:57) to keep resin alive, keep it going. (1:03:03) How, you know, yeah.(1:03:05) Yeah, well, there was a lot of artists (1:03:08) using resins in paintings, wasn't there? (1:03:11) For like the early 2000s. (1:03:13) I guess they kind of stopped for a bit (1:03:15) or maybe they're still doing it. (1:03:18) I don't know.(1:03:18) There's like resin paintings (1:03:20) or like you mean people paint (1:03:23) and then they put resin on top to protect it. (1:03:27) Yeah, I thought there was like a sort of a trend (1:03:30) of people using resin in their paintings. (1:03:33) Oh, you're gonna have to send me some examples of that.(1:03:36) I haven't found that. (1:03:37) I thought I saw that. (1:03:39) Maybe I'm not remembering right.(1:03:42) But I thought there was some artists (1:03:45) doing it in England, I think. (1:03:47) I'm not sure. (1:03:48) I'll have to look for it and send it to you.(1:03:50) Please do, awesome. (1:03:52) Well, it's great chatting, thanks. (1:03:54) Yeah, yeah, thank you.(1:03:56) Thank you so much for being on the show. (1:03:58) And I will get this to you as soon as I can. (1:04:02) And yeah, yeah, I will get this to you.(1:04:08) And yeah, maybe we can chat in the future (1:04:10) and see where you're at. (1:04:11) That would be great. (1:04:11) I'd love to.(1:04:15) Yeah, all right. (1:04:16) So yeah, I will get this to you soon. (1:04:21) And yeah.(1:04:22) Okay, well, good luck with everything (1:04:24) and we'll chat soon, okay? (1:04:26) Yeah, that sounds awesome. (1:04:27) Okay, yeah, no problem. (1:04:29) Have a good day.(1:04:30) You too, Julia, bye. (1:04:34) Okay, bye. (1:04:38) Join me next time as I go down another rabbit hole (1:04:41) with another creative professional (1:04:43) on their insights, their inspirations, (1:04:47) and their ingenuity.