.jpg)
Test Those Breasts ™️
This podcast by Jamie Vaughn is a deep-dive discussion on a myriad of breast cancer topics, such as early detection, the initial shock of diagnosis, testing/scans, treatment, loss of hair, caregiving, surgery, emotional support, and advocacy.
These episodes will include breast cancer survivors, thrivers, caregivers, surgeons, oncologists, therapists, and other specialists who can speak to many different topics.
Disclaimer: I am not a doctor and not all information in this podcast comes from qualified health care providers, therefore does not constitute medical advice. For personalized medical advice, you should reach out to one of the qualified healthcare providers interviewed on this podcast and/or seek medical advice from your own providers.
Test Those Breasts ™️
Ep. 97: Finding Hope and Joy in Cancer: Amanda Gunville on Humor, Healing, and Resilience
Amanda Gunville, a mom, entrepreneur, author, and cancer thriver, shares her personal journey with breast cancer and how it led to writing her new book "Finding Hope and Joy in Cancer." Her story illustrates how humor, self-advocacy, and mental resilience can transform the cancer experience from purely traumatic to a journey with moments of unexpected beauty and growth.
• Amanda's pre-cancer life as a type-A perfectionist, new mom, and executive trying to be everything to everyone
• The importance of counseling for couples facing cancer—how it enhanced Amanda's marriage
• Taking control of hair loss by shaving her head before chemotherapy could take it and the humor she and her husband shared.
• How writing became therapeutic during treatment and evolved into a book to help others
• The struggle of balancing positivity with allowing yourself to feel grief and sadness
• The power of self-care and prioritizing your own needs before serving others
• Amanda's book drive initiative to donate books to newly diagnosed cancer patients
• The unexpected connections and "angel moments" that happen during cancer treatment
• The importance of allowing yourself to feel all emotions rather than forcing positivity
To support Amanda's book drive where $10 donations provide books directly to cancer patients, visit the link in our show notes. Amanda's book "Finding Hope and Joy in Cancer" launches October 1st.
Are you loving the Test Those Breasts! Podcast? You can show your support by donating to the Test Those Breasts Nonprofit @ https://testthosebreasts.org/donate/
Where to find Jamie:
Instagram LinkedIn TikTok Test Those Breasts Facebook Group LinkTree
Jamie Vaughn in the News!
Thanks for listening!
I would appreciate your rating and review where you listen to podcasts!
I am not a doctor and not all information in this podcast comes from qualified healthcare providers, therefore may not constitute medical advice. For personalized medical advice, you should reach out to one of the qualified healthcare providers interviewed on this podcast and/or seek medical advice from your own providers .
Hello, friends. Welcome back to the Test Those Breasts Podcast. I am your host, Jamie Vaughn. I'm a retired teacher of 20 years and a breast cancer thriver, turned staunch, unapologetic, loud supporter, and advocate for others, bringing education and awareness through a myriad of medical experts, therapists, caregivers, and other survivors. A breast cancer diagnosis is incredibly overwhelming with the mounds of information out there, especially on Dr. Google. I get it. I'm not a doctor, and I know how important it is to uncover accurate information, which is my ongoing mission through my nonprofit. The podcast includes personal stories and opinions from breast cancer survivors and professional physicians, providing the most up-to-date information at the time of recording. Evidence, research, and practices are always changing, so please check the date of the recording and always refer to your medical professionals for the most up-to-date information. I hope you find this podcast a source of inspiration and support from my guests. Their contact information is in the show notes, so please feel free to reach out to them. We have an enormous breast cancer community ready to support you in so many ways. Now let's listen to the next episode of Test Those Breasts. Well, hello, friends. Welcome back to this episode of Test Those Breasts. I am your host, Jamie Vaughn. And today I am super excited about having my new breasty friend on my show. Her name is Amanda Gunville. And Amanda is a mom, entrepreneur, author, and cancer thriver who believes that hope and humor are powerful medicine. Her book, Finding Hope and Joy in Cancer, grew out of her own breast cancer journey and has become a heartfelt guide for patients, caregivers, and loved ones navigating serious illness. And I have to say that I read Amanda's book while I was camping this last week. And it was one of the best books I've ever read. And I think that a lot of people are gonna get a lot of really great morsels out of it. Amanda, how are you doing? Welcome to the show.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you so much for having me, Jamie. I'm so excited to be your new breasty friend.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And you know what? It turns out that you found me somehow. Can you tell me about that?
SPEAKER_00:Yes, I did. Well, I was um researching different podcasts in kind of women's health, obviously breast cancer, and uh yours came up, and then I listened to uh some episodes and I was like, oh, Jamie and I need to be best friends. Seriously. Yeah. So I reached out to you and and then we had a glorious conversation, and um, and here we are.
SPEAKER_01:Here we are. And you sent me your book before it's launching, because it's launching in October, yes? October 1st. And so I got to read it, and it turns out that you really didn't want to write a book. Uh, you were sort of convinced to write a book. And I thought to myself, you know, I'm gonna read this book, and I'm and I'm not sure what to expect because you really didn't want to write it. But you know, it really did come across like you did want to write it, and it needed to be written because you are an excellent writer. And as I was telling you before, I uh my training is in English language arts and social studies, but I know good language and you are really wonderful with words, and you are also quite humorous. I found myself laughing quite a few times, not because cancer's funny, but because of the way that you describe certain things, like, you know, your hair loss and, you know, just different things that happened to you. And I I really am a firm believer in humor as well to try to get us through the shitty times that we had to go through. And so I'm excited to talk about that. And one of the things that you did in your book is you talked a lot about who Amanda was before breast cancer. And I asked that question of all of my guests who have gone through this because I find it to be a very significant and deep question to answer. So, with that, why don't you let us know who Amanda was before breast cancer?
SPEAKER_00:Well, you know, it's it's it's funny. I was debating whether or not to put that in my book about my my past. And I and I and I talk about it as a, hey, if any of these re if any of these things about my life resonate with you, let it be a warning for you today, if you are currently not going through cancer. So who was I? I was newly married. I started this fun game of marriage and motherhood late. I was almost 40, and I had just had a baby, and I was an executive at a wine company, the leading premier single-served wine company in the country. I was the COO and CMO at the time. And I also like to just consult on the side because who doesn't like to work nights and weekends? So I was extraordinarily busy. I also told myself very often that I was doing what I loved and and I did, but I also did not take any time to just lay on the couch and relax, or get a massage, or read a book, or anything that would serve my personal health. And um so I would say, who was Amanda? She was the type A overachiever. Let me be everything to everyone and try to be perfect for everyone except for myself.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, sounds familiar. I I, you know, it's funny because once I started reading, I'm like, God, you know, I mean, this reminds me of me. Not that I'm type A, because I am certainly not type A. In certain regards, I am, but I'm definitely not the type of type A you were. But I did feel like I needed to do things to make everyone else happy. And I wanted to be the best friend I could be to people. I wanted to make sure that everyone was happy at dinner parties or whatever it was. So it's very interesting. All the people that I speak to talk about how busy they were before breast cancer, and which obviously we know is very stimulating and, you know, great in some ways, but it also brings on a lot of stress because, you know, you strike me as the type that is more of a perfectionist, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yes, definitely. Because there's nothing wrong with being driven. I mean, I was raised to be driven, but that's that's how my dad raised me, or my parents raised me, but really my dad when it came to golf. And I think there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, as long as there's that balance, right? And that perfectionism is not something to be proud of, I believe.
SPEAKER_01:Right, right. So there you are, busier than all get out, and being this type A perfectionist-driven person who probably was extremely well liked and, you know, social and all of this. And then something happened. Tell us about how you were diagnosed, what you were diagnosed with, what type of breast cancer, and tell us all the things, Amanda.
SPEAKER_00:All the things. Yes. So uh, you know, it's it's funny when you look back at it, you you say, Oh, life was giving me some speed bump signs, right? Like, you know, my hips kind of hurt, and I just figured it was because I was old when I had my first baby. Uh, and you know, it was trying to tell me to slow down. But you know, we just don't listen all the time. And and I myself, I went into my routine uh OBGYN exam simply to get a refill on my birth control. I had to, I hadn't seen her since I had um my baby. And I was like, I am drowning and no sleep, so I absolutely cannot get pregnant. Let me get this birth control on board. And she said, Hey, you're 41. You know, why haven't you gotten your mammogram in the last year? And I was like, Oh gosh, sorry. I didn't even think about it. So I followed doctor's orders and I made my appointment at the imaging center for maybe a week or two later. And I went in, I was laughing with the tech, honestly, had no inclination that anything could possibly be wrong. And uh, it was probably two days later I received a call that said, Hey, we just need you to come back in for further imaging. Nothing to worry about, no big deal. And I said, I was like, oh, that's interesting. I'm just gonna go in my patient portal and see what the what the report says, which by the way, you're not supposed to do, but I couldn't help myself, you know. Um, and I I looked at the report and I just literally copied and pasted some of the really big words and put it in Dr. Google because it's usually ra accurate, right? Right, right. Um, but there was a few medical journal reports that said anytime this big long fancy word is present in your imaging report, it almost always means malignancy. And I freaked out, of course, and sent it to everyone in my family who are everyone's in the medical field except for me on the black sheep. And they all said, you know, that's that's concerning. And so I will cut to the chase. It was a very long story, and I can get into self-advocacy and how I was able to get a proper diagnosis in less time than it would have been if I wouldn't have advocated for myself. But I was ultimately, after many imaging, biopsy, MRI, et cetera, diagnosed with stage two, triple positive, invasive ductal carcinoma. So that was my diagnosis. And you had her, you said HER2 positive as well, right? Yeah. Yeah, triple positive. So estrogen and progesterone positive and HER2 positive.
SPEAKER_01:So we know that when you have HER2 positive, that is when you have to do the Progetta and Herseptin, right? Because I uh, you know, because even now it's so hard to sort of pinpoint all the different types of breast cancer and what kind of treatment everyone gets. I just remember when I had uh stage two, HERD two positive, ERPR negative. Oh, interesting. Yeah. And and I I looked at a lot of different stories about breast cancer and followed people on Instagram and all the stories I would hear is that people got breast cancer and went immediately into surgery and then did chemo and radiation. And I couldn't figure out why it was that mine, I was going into chemo first and then surgery. Like people were like, why don't they just get in there and cut that sucker out? And I'm like, I don't know. I'm like, I'm not, I'm not a pro, but but it turns out that when you have that, it's it's um they want I was it was explained to me that they want to do the chemo first so that they can find out what the efficacy is of you know in your body, whether it's going to work on your body. And if there is a significant difference, then they know that that chemo is working. But they also want to shrink it as small as possible before the surgery. So that's the only explanation I was given. So, and I did not Google things because I had a friend of mine who told me straight out the gate, do not Google things. And she, you know, she had breast cancer. She said, just don't. You'll go down the rabbit hole, you'll go down the dark hole. And in your book, you talk about going on Google and going into the dark abyss of craziness, right? Freak you out. Um, okay. So then tell us the subsequent steps, you know, towards your treatment, what was being told, what where your mind was and all of that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, well, uh, it was explained to me very similar to you, in that, you know, chemo was going to come first. And um my steps were I I I honestly didn't know what to do. I my first call was just to my OBGYN and said, uh, what do I do? What's the next? And they said, I don't know, find a breast surgeon or something. And I was like, this is the most direction I'm going to get. And so it became very clear to me I needed to be my own advocate and my own researcher. And so I reached out to several different friends and I did all the Googling and to try to find where I should receive treatment because we were faced with um a big difficulty in that my husband travels Monday through Friday for his job. And it's not in state or sometimes in state, but but he's gone at least two to three weeks out of the month. And we had an 18-month-old. And so we were just trying to figure out where we should be. I can't, you know, I can't be alone with this with this toddler. And so we were looking at so many different areas, you know, when my parents were in California. So should we look at treatment there? And ultimately, um, I ended up choosing my breast surgeon first. And I'm actually thankful that I did. I think it's important to, you know, that's the person who's going to remove the cancer completely from your body. You want somebody who does it, in my opinion, day in and day out. I'm not saying that there aren't great breast surgeons who also do appedectomies, but for me, I really felt like it was important to have somebody who that's all that they did. And so that that's really how I chose my treatment place of treatment was I went to this really great breast surgeon at USC Keck in in Los Angeles, which was not the easy decision. We were two hours from that. So that meant I had to drive two hours to get to treatment. Um, I would drive in the night before. And uh it was, you know, it was, it was not an easy, easy thing to do. So I uh I had my TCHP, you know, taxile, carboplatin, herseptin, and projetis. So that was my my chemo, six rounds of that every three weeks. And then once that was completed, then it was time to do surgery. So that was my my ultimate treatment plan. Didn't just end there, but that was my beginnings.
SPEAKER_01:Right. I noticed in your book that you talk a lot about, you know, really it's not a straight line. And I know that your thought process was all right, so I've got this breast cancer, I'm gonna do this, boom, boom, boom, done. And that's not exactly how that happened, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yes. I mean, look, breast cancer is a great lesson for those of us who think we can control everything to say, guess what? Life is not quite that simple. I mean, it's it's similar to parenting, right? I would read every parenting book. And I mean, every night, two, three hours, I was reading exactly how to help her crawl, how to help her sleep through the night, how to get on to eating solids, all of the things. And my husband would read nothing and say, this just feels right. Let me tell you, he was a much less stressed-out parent than he was. And so it's not dissimilar in that you don't know how your body is going to react, right? We can do exactly the protocol that has been proven to give you the best chances of a certain outcome, but you don't know how your body's going to react to each chemo. You don't know if you're going to have the results in the shrinking of the tumor. You just don't know. So, in some senses, there is this surrendering that needs to occur that is not comfortable for those of us who like to control the outcome. Study for the test, get the A. Doesn't quite work in cancer.
SPEAKER_01:Right. No, it does not. And I and I I want to go back to talking about your husband because you had a really great chapter in there about your husband. And and I want to preface this by saying that I have interviewed quite a few women who had just gotten married, like in the last year or two, or new, newlyweds, right? And when we go up and we, you know, take our vows and we talk about in sickness and in health, right? They're not kidding. And it's not something that you expect, especially early on in your marriage. And so let's talk a bit about that, because you and I have sort of a similar story in how things went down as far as marriage goes. And I also want to say that you talked about choosing, there was the city of hope, right? Um, and the city of hope did something that changed the trajectory I can tell of your whole entire experience with your husband. Can you share a a bit about that?
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. So to profess it, I I went I wanted to get more than one opinion. So I went to USC and City of Hope and met with both teams of doctors. So I wanted to make sure they were both giving me the same um the the this the same treatment plan, and which they did. And about a week later, I get this phone call that says, before you start treatment, we you we require everyone who has a partner to go through counseling. And I thought, well, that's interesting. I haven't officially chosen City of Hope. And I ultimately did not, but heck yeah, I'll take counseling. And so that we we did. We went into this counseling session. And I think it's important to know because, you know, we were still your typical brand new married with a new toddler, sleep deprived. So marriage was not perfect. We, you know, we definitely had our arguments and our times. And so, you know, I think it's different when some people come into it and say, oh, we're we're in marital bliss. And then this thing hit us with a left hook and a uppercut. Um, but we, you know, we were we were your typical married couple who was, you know, going in its peaks and valleys of of typical marriage. And we met with this counselor who gave us incredible wisdom. And some of those things, if you want me to go through them, because I think they're okay, they're they're very helpful. The first thing she said is that we will both be on two separate journeys. And what she meant by that was that my husband was going to be experiencing his own set of grief patterns and feeling helpless and not knowing what to say or do. And at that point, I thought, boy, I've been pretty selfish in the sense that I was just thinking this was all about me, right? I'm the one who's potentially gonna die. I'm the one who's gonna be in treatment. And I never really considered his pain that he might be going through. And I thought that was a really good awareness for me to have that he would be going through his own set of emotional, you know, roller coaster. The second thing she told us was to, you know, set expectations up front. So, in other words, what do you need when things are tough? Like, do you want a hug or do you want to be left alone? Do you, you know, how do you, how do you want me to treat you? And that way there are sort of ground rules and you don't have to feel bad when you say, I just need some alone time, or can you take the baby um to the park and give me, you know, a moment to myself? Can you run a bath for me? If I'm not feeling good, just give me a hug, don't say a word, and just leave the room. So um there was that. Then, you know, another one that I thought was uh really helpful um was you set setting like roles and responsibilities. So you're going to be, you know, you're in charge of the food, or you know, you're gonna be making these decisions, which is just again, just helpful and ahead of it. And then just talk about the tough stuff. That's, you know, it's hard. Nobody wants to talk about this. You know, you you asked me earlier, and I don't think I I really gave you a great answer was what was I mentally going through at the time? I was in a deep, deep depression at first because I hear I had this 18-month-old, and I would look at her and say, I am the most selfish person in the world to have brought this child into the world and am potentially going to leave her motherless. And that was a super scary feeling. It wasn't even about me being sick, it was about me leaving my daughter. And and so, you know, I I needed the I needed the tools to be able to come out of that, right? And and and he and I talk about those things. And so it almost like, okay, let's talk about the tough stuff. Something happens to me, I need you to live close to my parents and my brother so that she stays close. If this happens, this, which nobody wants to talk about that. It's like writing your will. Nobody wants to write the will, right? But once you do, it's an incredible sense of relief, Jamie. I think so.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I've written, I've written part of my will. No one really knows that, but I have. I've written letters to everyone, things like that. So you were really hard on yourself. Uh-huh. You were really hard on yourself. And I really found it intriguing that they required you to have a counseling session with your husband. And I find that to be really incredibly important because when I was diagnosed, that was not the case. I was seeing another therapist after my mom died, and that's who I'd been seeing. And I started seeing another therapist when I was diagnosed, who I'm still with to this day, and I just freaking love her. She has helped me through so much all the way through my treatment, all the way through my surgery and starting the podcast and going through all of the depression, not thinking I had anything to give to the world after my surgery. I went through all kinds of ups and downs. And she has really helped me. But that set that February after my first surgery, I was so, my husband and I were at each other's throats. And he just kind of had this idea that I was going to get back to normal and everything was going to be fine. I was done with my treatment, done with my surgery, all the things. And that's just not how it works, as we know. Um, you know, I left for a couple of days and I came back and he said, you know, I'm so glad you're home. I said, babe, I I really think we need to go to therapy. And he says, I'll do whatever you want. And I said, No, I said, you need to do what you want to. And he says, Well, I want this. So we ended up going to therapy and we had a wonderful therapist. She got us through a lot, and we talked a lot about the elephants in the room and and got us through what we needed to get through. And I'm a firm believer that marriages are that it takes a lot of work. It's not, you just, you know, play house for your life and you don't have any problems. You know, we we all go through tough times. And when a cancer diagnosis comes into play, that just throws a huge monkey wrench into the whole, the whole playing house thing, right? Um, so I just really am so happy that that was the requirement that you had to go to a therapy session and it seems to have really helped.
SPEAKER_00:It absolutely did. You know, I I and I talk about this in the book too, is that you're in a relationship with yourself as well. So, you know, even though it was required of us, uh, you know, it was by the way, I went to I had five different cancer centers throughout my two and a half years of treatment. And that was the only place that offered that proactively and mandatory. So kudos to them for making it mandatory. I really believe that everybody, also like you, had a therapist that was working with me. I was, she was working with me as a business coach prior to diagnosis. Unbeknownst to me, she had counseled many executive women through their own cancer journeys. Uh, and I am forever grateful to the wisdom that she gave me. And I feel like it it helped enormously. So I would say to anyone newly diagnosed that yes, get the counseling session immediately with your spouse if you have one or a partner if you have one, but also get one for yourself because this is this is going to be the hardest thing you will ever go through mentally, right? And so it's so important to be armed. I mean, just have an insane tool belt of armor that you can use as you go through the roller coaster of emotions, good, bad, painful, all of them.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And it's really helpful to be able to have someone that can help you sort out what's going on in your mind. Yeah. Because it is a mind F, you know what I mean? That is an understatement. Yeah. Um so okay. So, and your husband and you, you and your husband are doing quite well today, yes.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, yes. But I I mean, I'm not gonna sugarcoat it and say we didn't still have challenges. Um, and then after, you know, it was all over, same thing, like, oh, we're back to normal. Let's do this, because it doesn't just magically, you know, glitter dust, you're done, and everything is beautiful. No, there's so much recovery and there's so much that you're a different person for sure. So yeah, but we are doing really well, but not without work.
SPEAKER_01:Right. You probably, you know, that kind of experience, I feel really helps people with the way they communicate with each other. And so when you do have those tense moments where you are just pissed off at each other for whatever reason, whether it be why does it seem like parenting is so easy for you and it's not for me, why is what I'm doing not working? And you can just sit back and, you know, it just feels right. I this is the way we should do it. I I I kind of sensed in your book that there might have been a little resentment there.
SPEAKER_00:A little. If you quantify a little as enormous, yeah. Yeah, for sure. I will own that all day. I was absolutely that was the feeling that was um prevalent in our marriage.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. For sure. I love how real you are. I think that, you know, not sugarcoating the whole experience. And there's so many arms to this experience and not sugarcoating it, but I liked how you, and I want to start getting into this in your survivorship. I liked how you not only told us the good, the bad, the ugly, you helped people, especially people who've never been diagnosed. One of the my audience, I love when people listen to this podcast who've never been diagnosed, because it can give them so much knowledge before they're ever even diagnosed, if they're diagnosed, right? And we know that one in eight women are diagnosed with breast cancer. And that's that's a very, very important statistic because chances are you're probably going to get it, depending on how, you know, like the longer you live, you're probably going to get a cancer, right? So arming ourselves with the knowledge that we need beforehand is so important because there was so much I did not know. Um, I thought that I knew. I'd had lumpectomies before that were benign. I'd always gotten my, you know, I've always been good with my breast health. And And we do know that younger women are now getting breast cancer. I have died, I have uh interviewed quite a few people in their late 20s, early 30s, new moms who have gotten breast cancer. And it's always a shock, not only to the patient, but also even to doctors, because though I've had people who've said they went into their OBGYN and they said, nope, you're too young to have breast cancer. Don't worry, it's just a cyst, and then come to find out they had breast cancer. And so doctors are even like shocked that younger women are getting breast cancer. So the more knowledge we have, even if somebody reads your book now, they've never been diagnosed, they'll be able to go in a lot more armed. So let's talk about that. Let's talk about how the book came to be and what else you're doing in your survivorship. I know you mentioned that you're kind of the go-to person in your friend circle. Yeah. I'm the go-to person as well. It's because of you, I got my first mammogram, or it's because of you, I advocated for myself. So tell us what you're doing in your survivorship, how that is also helping you as this new bloomed human being, beautiful woman.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you. Um, well, as you said, I, you know, I I it was a long treatment journey, two and a half years. So through that, I had 21 chemos. I started getting really pretty good at at, you know, managing side effects and how to make it, make it through, not just physically, but mentally. And so, yes, I did become the go-to person for anyone newly diagnosed. And you you said a very important statistic, one in eight women, you know, uh will get breast cancer. But there's another statistic, which is 40% of humans will get a cancer in their lifetime. So I've, you know, I've talked to people that are stage four liver cancers that are male. I have a multiple myeloma in his 70s. And at the end of the day, uh, we all experience similar mental challenge, similar side effects. Chemo is is not choosy. It just likes to make us all miserable. And so I was the go-to person, and I had many different, you know, counselors, friends, therapists, you said, you name it, tell me I should be writing. And I said, Oh, I'm not a I'm not a writer. I'm not a writer. And I one day in the middle of the night, 3 a.m., woke up with a start. I always read about these moments and never thought they were real, but the words were literally in my head, just swirling. I knew exactly what I wanted to write. So I got up and I just wrote it down. And and that was it. That was the end. I went back to sleep. And then every couple days, a new thought would appear in my mind. And when I was alone, I would go sit on my patio and I'd just start to write it down. And I thought, this is really therapeutic. And I really enjoyed writing it down, really for myself, because we all know chemo brain is real. And sometimes you forget these things. So I started writing it all down and I enjoyed the process. It was very cathartic. And at the end of it, when I was done with writing down my entire journey, I realized that there were all of these nuggets in interwoven within my story that I tell people all the time when I'm talking to them of how to combat mouth sores and how to be resilient in your mental game. I mean, you name it. What's the best thing you can tell your family and your friends so that you have the support you need throughout your treatment? And I thought, maybe I should, you know, print this thing and help people. And of course, you know, once I made that decision, then it blew it blossomed into its own thing. And I decided, you know, I'm gonna go ahead and and do this right and publish it and create a book that, as you so kindly said, will make people laugh while giving them the tools to navigate it, whether you're the patient or you're the caregiver or a family or friend just wanting to know what the right thing to say or do is. And then in the last couple of weeks, I think I told you about this earlier, but I was like, I don't want this to be a can I afford it? Because we know cancer is expensive. I think the estimate, Jamie, is like if you get diagnosed, you can expect your annual expenses to be around nine or$10,000 on top of whatever, you know, insurance stuff, just from all of the gear and the things that you need to go through it. I said, I don't want this to be just one other thing. So I decided to create a book drive. And for, and I it's it's right now it's grassroots, but I'm hoping to be able to get it, you know, to expand out. And for every$10 people donate, they uh a book is delivered to a cancer center and given directly to a patient who has been newly diagnosed or is going through the thick of treatment. And, you know, I don't know if you experience this, but when you're first diagnosed, they give you that giant binder, the binder that has all of the medical stuff in it. Yeah. And it's kind of scary. It's helpful and informative, but it's also scary. It's like, oh, great, these are all the things I can look forward to. But wouldn't it be fun if you got something with a, you know, a beautiful message of hope and joy? And maybe this could actually be one of the better things that happens in your life instead of the absolute worst things that ever happen in your life, which is the goal of the book. So that's how it came to be. And that's how we're trying to bring it to as many newly diagnosed and existing cancer patients across the country. I'm hoping hundreds of thousands.
SPEAKER_01:I love that. That is just so, you know, I mean, I just remember looking at all kinds of resources when I got diagnosed. And one of the books that saved me, weirdly enough, is one that was called Pretty Sick. And because I was really concerned about how ugly I was gonna be. And, you know, being bald and, you know, mouth sores and face sores and my skin all gross and all the things, right? Um, and so I bought so I bought this book called Pretty Sick. And it was the author, she had been in the beauty industry for many, many years. And so she was out in the open doing shows, just like like the face of different shows. And she wanted to make sure that she looked good while being sick. So she she broke it down. It was nice because you could just go to each chapter and um, you know, find things of about nail health, about hair health, about vagina health, about just skin, skin, your teeth, your oral health. And it was just really a good book for me. And I really sucked it up and I bought different things to try out so I could feel better about myself. And I feel that your book is kind of one of those books where you don't have to really read it necessarily from the beginning, but it's a good idea to because it gives you a really good idea of who you were and, you know, how you became the person that you are. But you can also go back and reference, you know, things about talking about the loss of your hair. So, like if I went to that chapter, I would know that Amanda went out and she got a badass haircut that she had probably always wanted, right? Kind of like that happened to me. And my girlfriends took me. I got my head shaved on one side, a line cut. It was super badass. Um, and then you also knew that you didn't want to be that woman in the movies where you're in the shower and you pull out a clump of hair and you're crying and screaming and going. You wanted to take control of your hair loss. So, how did you do that?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah, that's exactly right. I did not want that, that, that movie scene. That was uh, we were already going through enough mental turmoil to, you know, let's let's avoid that one. So first I decided, I mean, I had never, Jamie, done anything cool with my hair. Let's be honest. I didn't have the guts. So my hair was shoulder, you know, just past shoulder length, blonde, naturally blonde hair. And I just did never do anything cool. Except in college, I did braids, you know, with fake hair. That was kind of cool. But as an adult, a professional, I hadn't done anything. So first I went and just cut it, you know, shoulder length. And I thought, why have I not done this before in my life? It was, it was adorable. And I think I probably looked a little more professional and all the things. And then that was about a week after the first chemo, and you know, your hair starts falling out around the two to three week mark after your first chemo. And so soon as I put the brush in my hair and a bigger clump than normal came out, I said, okay, let's do this thing. But I had in my mind that I was gonna be like the five-year-old boy with like lightning streaks in my hair, or like Michael Jordan's basketball number. I was gonna have like this really cool shaved head look. And so I recruited my very bald husband to do the job. So I figured he would be an expert, right? So we went on the back patio and he takes the clippers and he starts to shave it. And maybe I didn't give enough direction. You know, guys are supposed to read our minds, but the reality is they don't. And all I can tell you is that it turned out to be this like bowl cut with like a half crop circle. And so I looked in the mirror and I was like, well, wasn't exactly what I had in mind. And we died laughing. I was like, farmer Joe, like, which which quadrant should we should we plant the corn in, Joe? And uh, and so we had a good laugh about it. In the end, my mom came in and and evened it all out. And then when I looked in the mirror, I thought, I'm G.I. Amanda. I got this. Yep. And I felt this like crazy power. I just I needed to throw on a leather jacket, get on a motorcycle, and kick some ass.
SPEAKER_01:You know, it's so funny. There's so many similarities with our experience with that because my husband is also, he has some hair, but he's he's bald. I mean, like he shaves it, I shave it. It's always shaved. So he's bald. And he is the one who shaved my hair. And I remember, and by the way, when I was reading that chapter, I was we were in our trailer and I was reading it was nighttime, and I was cracking up. And I looked over to him, I said, Man, this chapter that Amanda wrote about her husband shaving her head and how he's bald. And he was laughing because the same thing with us, we used to take selfies together when I was bald. And um, he thought it was really we call them weefies. Weafies. But he shaved my head. Um, and he used and he called me G. I Jamie. And and I also, I I think that you also felt a sense of, I don't know, badassery, maybe uh when you had your Oh yeah. I'll have to send you pictures of me when I was uh had a shaved head. And I and I actually ended up really liking it too. And actually that day I said, hey, I said, um, you know, my hair started falling out and I and I we need to shave my head. And I brought the clippers with me when we went up to this uh place that we always go to to go camping at his friend's house. We just pull into their yard and we camp in their yard. And we were at lunch and he goes, babe, he goes, I don't know, I don't know if I'm gonna I don't want to shave your head. This is gonna be way too hard for you. And I looked at him and I said, No, I said, I've already gone through all of the emotions and pissed offness. I've already cut my hair into a badass haircut. And I said, I'm not gonna be all emotional and crazy about it. I said, Maybe you will be, but I'm not going to. And I expect you to shave my head. And so he did. And it was a fun experience because his friend's mom came and cut mine and cut it into a pixie. And his friend was filming the whole thing. And then my husband came in and shaved the head. And when I got up, it just felt so good. And we had had a big old rainstorm that day. So it was almost like I had come out of yeah, it was like a cleansing. Yeah. Yeah. Or a rebirth or something. And and I knew that it was gonna happen pretty quickly where it would start patching, like coming out. So that's when I really started wearing um, you know, hats and turbans and and scarves and things like that. I never did wear my wig.
SPEAKER_00:Didn't you me? I wore it rarely when I go out to dinner or something. It was uh, and I had a couple work events that I had to throw it on for, but I loved my scarves. Loved them. I wore them. Oh yeah, they're so fun. I I grew to love them. I didn't really want to give them up when my hair started going back. I still have them all.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I still have a big old bag of them. And um, I've lent them to some people or just given them to some people. One of the things, though, that you also said in your book was, you know, when people see you in a turban or like a scarf or something like that or a beanie, you don't realize it hit me one day when my friends and I, another couple and my husband and I were all out to dinner and we were sitting on a patio and we were having dinner, and I had this like bright coral scarf. And we got up after we were finished and we were leaving the restaurant, and this guy chased me out um from the inside the restaurant and came outside and he says, Hey, he goes, Can I ask you something? And he said, I said, Yeah. And he says, Are you going through chemo? Do you have cancer? And I looked at my husband and I looked at my friends and I said, Yes. And he goes, I'm sorry. He goes, I I just I don't I don't mean to make you uncomfortable or anything. I just wanted to let you know that I see you, you're strong, you I want you to know that my wife was also diagnosed, and I just wanted to get to tell you how much we, you know, care and just the nicest, I can't even remember exactly what he said. Yeah, but it hit me upside the head that day. My God. People know I'm a cancer patient right now. It's like it's all of a sudden like you're the sick person because you have a scarf on your head.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah. Strange feeling. It is. It's it is a strange feeling. I I even feel like there were times where I was like, nobody'll know. This is such a same thing. I had the coral, beautiful scarf. And now I look back at the pictures and I'm like, yeah, no, you were gray and you looked very sick. The the no eyelashes, no eyebrow thing kind of gave it away. Gave it away.
SPEAKER_01:Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_00:But isn't it such a beautiful, empowering connectedness? I'm trying to find all the right adjectives. When you can connect with somebody like that man and have the shared bond over something so difficult, but then be it so beautiful at the same time. And it just makes you realize like humanity can be so beautiful.
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:And and you didn't know that woman, but you probably felt connected to his wife, having never even met her and loved her.
SPEAKER_01:And I didn't even, I don't, I know where they were sitting, but I don't remember really seeing her or him, you know. I but I knew where he had come from because there was only one other group in the whole place. And um, I just felt that he was such a wonderful, empathetic man. Like, how many people, how many men would come outside of a restaurant and address someone like that without having an empathetic heart, you know? And he just wanted to give me a jolt of joy and love and just from a stranger. So I just thought that was really neat. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. It's it's there's the a chapter in my book called There Are Angels Among Us. And that happened, uh a very interesting experience happened to me. And I call those my angel moments when people would come up and say something that deeply touches your heart, and you realize it was exactly what you needed to hear, even though you didn't know you needed to hear it, and just the jolt of life that it gives you, the compassion, the empathy, the the happiness. There's there's this level of joy, hope, all of the things when you're seen, if you know what I mean. Like you're just seen for your soul. And um, yeah, there was those were some prose special moments throughout my treatment journey that I can look back on and re just smile.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And and even the ones like from your friends who set up your meal train and set up, you know, all the things that I had a same army of friends who came swooping down and just made sure that I was taken care of. And I'm so grateful to that. And this podcast and my nonprofit is my way of giving back to help those people that need help. And and your book, I really do believe that it's going to help so many women. I mean, even in my survivorship a couple of years down the road, it helped me. And um, because honestly, I just think that we're never really over things, you know, it's never you're always still healing. And for me, the laughter that you gave to me through all the things that you went through, and, you know, the the um emotions that you went through that that I felt that you and I connected on and just similar things and how you were able to do a therapy session with your husband. I really believe that when people get diagnosed, they may not be given that opportunity to go to therapy because they're they're sort of made to go to therapy and they want it's required. This will give them the tools to make the decision to go to therapy when they are diagnosed with their partner that they're with, because we know that 40%, 40% of marriages break up with a diagnosis like this. And you and I now know why that statistic is so high because it is, it is definitely, it takes a toll, and both people need to be willing to work on it, which it sounds like your husband was willing, my husband was willing. And um, so I just think that the book is gonna help people in just a myriad of different ways in all stages of the cancer diagnosis and through their survivorship. So it's launching on October 1st. We're gonna have the link in the bio in the show notes, right? So exciting. So exciting. Is there anything else that you would like to leave us with? I want to kind of focus on people who've never been diagnosed. At the end of your book, you have some great morsels of advice for people for different things, right? What kind of piece of advice would you leave for someone on this show that has never been diagnosed before?
SPEAKER_00:Well, I think I named 33 in the book. But, you know, the the most important thing, um, I believe this is true with anyone, but especially with women, as we're trying to be everything to everyone. And guilt, no matter how you're raised, seems to be a prevalent feeling that we tend to have. And you shouldn't, I really think you absolutely need to prioritize self-care. And as I always like to say, you and and many people say it, I didn't come up with it, but you cannot pour from an empty cup. And that's really, really, really hard to do and very easy to say because we don't. But when you're tired, rather than getting up to vacuum the floor or put the dishes in the dishwasher, first ask your body what it needs. What does what does my body need? Close my eyes, what does my body need? And do that first. Then it's what is my what does my mental health need? And then it's along the lines of spiritual health. Because once you've addressed you and your cup is full, then you can go and be the best mom, the best spouse, the best professional in your in your work environment. You'll be so much happier. And and I do believe that stress breeds disease. So if we can nip that in the bud, and for the people who have not, and hopefully you'll hear this advice, you'll take it up, and you'll never get diagnosed, then I think that would be a wonderful takeaway is to just prioritize you. And it doesn't have to be huge. Of course, I like a good spa day, but that's not available to everybody and certainly isn't to me every week. But, you know, whatever that it could literally just be deep breathing for 10 minutes a day in the quiet. It could be dancing to your favorite music in your underwear. Right. Whatever brings you joy, that's what needs to be done and make it a very regular practice.
SPEAKER_01:Right. And, you know, when we do even take care of ourselves, that that's not to say that you're not gonna get breast cancer or any other kind of cancer. But what I can say is that I was really healthy when I got diagnosed. And come to find out, it doesn't matter if you're healthy. Cancer can find you, right? But what matters is that the healthier you are, mind, body, and soul, the better you're going to be able to move through the treatments that you're going to need to get through the cancer. And I am a firm believer in that, that the healthier you are, the better you're going to be able to move through it.
SPEAKER_00:I wish I I love, I love that, because you cannot control what happens to you physically, sadly. I mean, you can you can try to take precautionary measures, but at the end of the day, you don't know how your body is going to fare in this life we get to live. But you can control the thoughts that go through your mind. You can control your spiritual alignment, whatever that means to you. And if you can can control that, uh, I think you'll move through life in a more abundant, joyful manner, no matter what your body goes through, no matter what ailments strike you, no matter what it doesn't even have to be disease. It could be relationships, it could be, you know, the loss of a job. It's key chemo, I say that with my hands up in quotes, chemo is whatever challenge you have in your life will impact everybody. It could be aging parents, but you can control your mind, body, and soul, as you so perfectly said. Um, if we can arm ourselves with that joyful spirit, then maybe, just maybe we can get through this life in a better fashion.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And it just made me think about something that you had said in your book as well, is something about allowing yourself to go through the emotions. Because even though you are trying to be strong and you're you're trying to control your mind and things like that, it is really important and actually healthy to let yourself feel those emotions. Like if you're gonna have a breakdown, have a breakdown. Let it happen, let it move through your body, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yes. That, and that is something I learned on the second half of my journey. So the first half of my journey when I was first diagnosed, I was so hard on myself and just saying, you have to be happy, you have to be hopeful because that's how you're gonna get through this. And that's, you know, you're gonna have a better recovery. And I was trying to force grief out of my body, right? Like, and I'm really ignoring it. But the, but that's not healthy either. And I I I I love to tell the story, I'll be brief, but my brother said to me, I was on a walk with him, and I said, I just I know I need to be happy. And he said, Sister, let yourself just feel, give yourself grace. You've been dat you've been dealt a real shit hand. Yeah. And it let yourself feel, and it gave me that permission to move through it. But it took me a few weeks to get there. Whereas the second half of my journey, when I found out I had to do a whole nother year of chemo after all of my first chemo and surgeries and everything, when I felt that devastation, I leaned in hard and I cried all the tears and I honored them. And I was almost, it was all felt warrior-like and just letting this wave of of sadness come over me. And when all the tears were were done and out of my body, I felt new again. And I was able to come at it with like, okay, we got this, we can do this. And so honor yourself. I think what you said is so perfect, Jamie, in that you need to honor all of your feelings and you don't have to be the strong ones.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, you do because a cancer diagnosis is a big fucking deal. It's a big deal. And I think that sometimes we don't, you know, we we're thinking it's not a big deal, but it really is a big deal. And I feel like a good, ugly cry is so important. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And it doesn't, it doesn't end in in cancer. I had I had one the other day, you know, I'm about ready to publish this book and I'm putting all this pressure on myself. And my husband came in the in the room and I just started to cry because I was like, I just wanted to do the most good for the most people. And am I doing all the things right? And and I just it I needed that release of of you know the stress, which I was like, didn't I talk about this in my book? Aren't we not supposed to stress ourselves out? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So it doesn't matter where you and I will, I will be a testament of your book. It is a really great book. I highly recommend people just grab it. It's a it's not a super long, long read. I would say I read it probably in maybe three hours. And I think that that is approximately, you said two to three hours. I'm not a super fast reader, but I just took it in and I and I enjoyed it. I laughed. I cried. I I actually did cry too, by the way, Amanda. I don't think I told you that. I did cry in a few places because it brought back some some crazy memories from my own diagnosis. So thank you so much. We are we are so lucky to have you out there. I'm so glad that we're in this sisterhood together. And I'm hoping that your book will help people with any kind of cancer, any kind of situation that they're going through. And I just want to thank you. And if there's anything else that you'd like to say before we disconnect that, we can do that now.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. Well, I, you know, it would be uh a miss if I didn't tell you thank you in return because your podcast is a joy. It really is. It is so wonderful to listen and to hear other women share the feelings that I also feel and give me permission to feel those things and know that I'm not crazy. So I'm just so grateful to you that you have these conversations with a mirror of women and we get to learn their backgrounds and and probably resonate with a lot of what everyone says, because we all experience it, but we don't talk about it enough. So thank you for the work that you do. This is no small task to put these talks together and these podcasts live. So thank you very much for the advocacy and work that you do for our community.
SPEAKER_01:You uh that thank you so much for saying so. All right, Amanda. Well, thank you again and to my audience. I really hope you enjoyed this episode and I hope you grab Amanda's book. It'll be launching on October 1st. I will have the link in the show notes, and we will see you next time on the next episode of Test Those Breaths. Bye for now. Friends, thank you so much for listening to this episode of Test Those Breaths. I hope you got some great, much-needed information that will help you with your journey. As always, I am open to guests to add value to my show, and I'm also open to being a guest on other podcasts where I can add value. So please reach out if you'd like to collaborate. My contact information is in the show notes. And as a reminder, rating, reviewing, and sharing this podcast will truly help build a bigger. Audience all over the world. I thank you for your efforts. I look forward to sharing my next episode of Test Those Breaths.
