Heritage Brands and Edge Computing with Intel's Stacey Shulman

Prepare to journey into the fascinating world of Edge Compute, "Heritage Brands," generative AI (of course), as-a-service everything and how it is reshaping our perceptions of technology. How do we harness the power of cloud computing, AI, APIs, and security strategies to drive business growth?

Joining us to answer these compelling questions is Stacey Shulman, VP of Network and Edge Computing Group for Intel, a seasoned tech expert with a wealth of experience in the vertically integrated retail space. 

We'll delve into the rapid adoption of Edge Compute and the game-changing potential of self-powered data centers. Believe it or not, these green energy giants can be up and running in just a couple of months!

In the second phase of our conversation, we unpack the mysteries of infrastructure processing units (IPUs), GPUs, and NPUs. Stacy shares her insights on the diverse applications of edge compute, from revolutionizing medical equipment to transforming retail and point of sale systems. 

The future is here, and it’s powered by plug-and-play architectures and accelerators that allow us to control functionality like never before. If you’ve ever wondered about the potential of these technologies, this discussion will satiate your curiosity.

Finally, we turn our attention to the seismic shifts occurring in the business world, courtesy of automation and AI. We discuss how these tools curate content based on user context and intention, catalyzing a transformative effect on the creative process. We also dive into the pros and cons of hardware-as-a-service models and the financial implications they carry. As if that weren't enough, we'll also shed light on the pressing need for abstraction layers in tech and the impact of portability issues. 

This episode promises to be a treasure trove of insights for anyone seeking to scale their edge compute business. Don't miss out!

Want to scale your edge compute business and learn more? Subscribe here and visit us at https://edgecelsior.com.

Transcript

Pete Bernard: 1:01

. . . spend money on stuff.

Stacey Shulman: 1:03

Especially that starts with AI.

Pete Bernard: 1:06

Yeah, it's like insanity, insanity. This one's trying to do something there, right?

Stacey Shulman: 1:14

I've been surprised at how fast this area is taking off.

Pete Bernard: 1:20

I did not expect the adoption to be this fast. Well, i think part of it is. It's so accessible for the layperson to just go to a chat, gpt website or whatever and just start doing stuff. The APIs are there, i mean, it's all there, and so people are very quickly integrating it and doing POCs and doing product. As long as Nvidia and folks and like Intel can make chips, they'll keep running these workloads. I guess I don't know, i don't know what the I don't know if there's any upper bound limit.

Pete Bernard: 1:54

Actually I was talking to a company that's in the power business. This is an interesting area. Power is really a big deal That could be. One of the gating factors is just electricity and getting power to these kind of data centers and mini data centers and edge sites just to run the stuff. You know, the public grid in and of itself is inherently limited, right In terms of how much power can provide and the wait times to get hooked up with power. So that may end up being one of those things that actually inhibits more deployment of some of these things is just plain old electricity. But we'll see.

Stacey Shulman: 2:31

Yeah, I just joined a board a couple of weeks ago and I've been working with this company for a long time. But they're an edge edge based data center, that's hydrogen cooled. Oh, yeah, so hydrogen powered, yeah, and so fully hydrogen powered edge based. you know they can be up and running from the from the time they get the permit. they can be up and running with, you know customers, in 30 to 60 days.

Pete Bernard: 3:00

Yeah, no, that's amazing. And so I think, like the self powered data center, you know, and I think for some of these big companies, fortune 50s, you know, that need, frankly, kind of almost like on prem data centers or near prem data centers. They can't go up the public grid right, so they have to be more self sufficient on power. You can't just ask your local utility for like 400 megawatts, please. I'll be like, yeah, come back in a decade and we'll help you out. So, yeah, the self powered data center, hydrogen powered, yeah, it's pretty cool.

Stacey Shulman: 3:34

Yeah, there's a lot of. it's a fun space right now.

Pete Bernard: 3:37

Yeah, yeah, we're running into a lot of interesting and interesting upper bounds of things going on, which is kind of cool, by the way. Can I let me just do an appropriate introduction here? Sure, so I'm going to rewind a little bit and I'll edit and splice this all together appropriately. So let me let me officially welcome you, stacy Stacy Shilman, from Intel, to the show, the Edge Celsius Show, and it's great to have you here and look forward to the conversation. Maybe you can give us a little, a little blurb on your background and sort of what you've been, what's been keeping you busy lately.

Stacey Shulman: 4:14

Sure, yeah, so I'll start with. Start with current day until I run all the people focused businesses. So other industry that covers healthcare, life sciences, retail, banking, hospitality, corporate collaboration, casino gaming, education anything that involves people directly for the most part sits under my group at Intel And we focus primarily at The Edge or, you know, outside of a data center, so on premises, at the school, in the hospital, in the retail store tends to be where we, where we put most of our focus and attention. So I came to Intel about six years ago And before that I spent most of my career either as a CIO for large manufacturing and retail organizations or before that building commercial software products for for those types of organizations. So it's been a I've been on every side of the value chain in every part of the value chain.

Stacey Shulman: 5:16

It's been a fun career.

Pete Bernard: 5:18

It's kind of like there's the use tech part of the world and then there's the make tech part of the world And you've been in both worlds.

Stacey Shulman: 5:24

Yeah, and the sell tech part of the world, so of course, yes, i got to sell it too.

Pete Bernard: 5:28

But no, i noticed you would work. You did a stint at Levi Strauss, you did a stint at Levi's in American Apparel, so you were definitely like in the, in the heart of the retail world for a little while.

Stacey Shulman: 5:39

Yeah, especially in the vertically integrated apparel space, that's where I probably spent most of my in the fashion space. Even the products I was creating, the software products I was creating, was primarily for the luxury, vertically integrated, you know, manufacturing companies. Yeah, that's where I spent most of my time.

Pete Bernard: 5:58

Interesting. So, Levi, do you were you in San Francisco for Levi's Yeah headquarters? Levi, Okay, cool.

Stacey Shulman: 6:03

Yeah, We're kind of the office there, A great, great location, And it's and it's amazing working for a company that that you know, 160 year old company that established the category, literally invented the category of denim.

Pete Bernard: 6:17

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Stacey Shulman: 6:18

And jeans, and has been the leader of that category since it invented it.

Pete Bernard: 6:24

Yeah, so it's a really interesting kind of ride.

Pete Bernard: 6:27

Yeah, i was thinking about also about because I'm working with a lot of small companies now too, and you know big companies have their pluses and minuses a lot of scale there and you know. But also there's the brand equity is kind of one of those X factors. You know, working with companies that have a lot of brand equity I mean, you're working for Intel now. You know we were talking about Microsoft And there's a lot of value in in having companies with some brand equity in the game. And.

Pete Bernard: 6:54

I think that's one of the things always with smaller companies as they struggle with that. they have this cool, they've invented this new mouse trap and it's fantastic, but no one's heard of them. and who wants to bet on them? you know, bet their business on them. So I think it's it's interesting. Yeah, the equity part is always valuable, i think.

Stacey Shulman: 7:12

I think it is. I also think it's a weight at the same time. I've watched these large companies. I'll use Levi's as an example because it's a public example and they've admitted to it. But when you're the category leader and you have brand equity, sometimes you get complacent. You don't fight like that. Startup has to fight with all of their might, with all of their heart, and they've got to put everything into it. And innovation becomes more of theatrics than reality. I think there's something to be said for that scrappy company that's fighting And these big companies need to learn.

Stacey Shulman: 7:52

We need to learn a lot from that.

Pete Bernard: 7:54

Well it's. I mean, it's, yeah, the innovator's dilemma, right, it's hard to disrupt yourself. It must be easier to be disrupted. I remember like I worked for I'd probably worked for five or six companies now, and most of the companies I'd worked for prior to Microsoft and no one had ever heard of, so it was always going to go home for Thanksgiving and your uncles like I've never heard of them.

Stacey Shulman: 8:14

And then when I worked for Microsoft, they're like oh yeah, we know Microsoft, don't worry, i still get that for Intel. Like who's Intel?

Pete Bernard: 8:21

I'm like, i'm not doing the long thing for you, you would know the song Yeah. Yeah. I'd say yeah, of course, when I told people I work for Microsoft. the next question is can you help me fix my computer?

Stacey Shulman: 8:30

You know that was Oh right, yeah, i still get that something with Windows?

Pete Bernard: 8:34

But yeah, no, it's. it's. there's always that tension of disruption and innovation and, you know, brand equity And I was talking to someone about the automotive space, very hot space right now, right, And so you've got these you know big giant companies like the GM's and the Ford's, and then lots of disruption coming up from underneath and from all sides. And how do they, you know, leverage that brand equity, stay on top, but at the same time, you know, do something innovative and potentially cannibalistic in some cases, right So?

Stacey Shulman: 9:05

well, that's the hard part is how do you? how do you do that without alienating your existing customer base? And I think that's the struggle is it does become a weight because you have all of this legacy that you've got to, you've got to not ignore and you've got to bring that customer base along with you on your innovation journey.

Stacey Shulman: 9:25

and not everyone's ready for that innovation journey, and so we've got to make some calculated decisions on do you leave people behind and, if you do, who and why, and how do you? how do you bring them back later?

Pete Bernard: 9:37

Yeah, yeah, well, i think that was like the who move your cheese lesson. I think I speak going back to Microsoft, and there was a very famous case study there, right When, when Microsoft redesigned Windows 8, took away the start button, they tried to kind of disrupt themselves and kind of maybe went a little too far and left some people behind. Everyone's like where, where, where is the start button, how do I do this thing? And then there was a lot of obviously they brought it back with Windows 10 and things like that, but anyway, long story there lots of lots of examples of moving the cheese.

Pete Bernard: 10:10

I was going to ask you a question. So the show is about edge computing And one of the questions I asked guests are you know if you were at a well, we talked about Thanksgiving dinner or wherever cocktail party and people were like what is edge computing? How do you, how do you address that? How do you try to explain edge computing to somebody that's doesn't understand what you're talking about?

Stacey Shulman: 10:30

I think I did a little bit of that in my intro right You know, when I talk about my group, i rarely say we're. You know, i'm in the edge computing group, which I am you know I'm in the network and edge computing group And what I generally tell people is it's anything outside of the data center. And most people kind of understand that Now that's not totally perfect, but it's pretty close, It's pretty close And you know when we, when we get into, when people ask about.

Stacey Shulman: 10:58

Well, you know, most people don't need examples of that, but generally the first reaction, depending on their level of sophistication, is well, isn't that going away? And I'm like, well, like, let's walk into a hospital for a second And I want you to tell me, just thinking about walking through a hospital, how many computers you see that's edge computing. Or when you're in an airport and you look at a digital billboard, that's edge computing.

Stacey Shulman: 11:27

And you know, when you're, when you're at point of sale, pain for something in a retail store, that's edge computing. Or you're checking in at a kiosk in an airport, that's edge computing. So it's, it's everywhere. And you know, I don't think it's going to go away, I think it's going to continue to grow And I actually think things are going to push out to the edges more.

Pete Bernard: 11:46

Yeah Well, no, there's definitely a gravitational pull to the edge. I guess one of the things that I distinguish, for folks too, is sort of, like you know, originally everything was on prem right And then, well, maybe originally actually everything was centralized and mainframes, but we're going too far back.

Pete Bernard: 12:01

But, let's say, everything was on prem. Well, go back a few decades. But then then there's this big, you know, lift and shift migration, right. It's like, oh, i can take these workloads Instead of having a Dell under my desk, i can move these workloads to the cloud. And there was that whole big shift to the cloud. And then people were like but still, obviously, as you said, there's lots of workloads and scenarios where you need you need stuff, you need compute, like right where the action is, and so now there's the and in between. There we had IoT, which was kind of a small signal sent occasionally to the cloud to measure and kind of figure out what's going on.

Pete Bernard: 12:35

But now edge computing is compute where the action is complimenting some sort of cloud case capability as well, to create some sort of continuum between workloads in the cloud, workloads where the action is, and potentially even workloads at sensors that are going beyond, going beyond that space. And so that's kind of the new phase where it's part of a continuum of compute from the cloud to the edge, to sensors, as opposed to one or the other Right Agreed And I think we're going to see.

Stacey Shulman: 13:08

you know we like to talk about the distributed compute and you know where. you know we saw those trends of trying to go to mainframes And I think a lot of that trend, you know, when the 60s, 70s, you know early 80s, of mainframes the edge still wasn't, didn't have a lot of compute, proliferated out there Right.

Stacey Shulman: 13:32

And then we got into the client server world And yeah, there's more, more out there And you know we haven't really gone away from client server at the edge, like we can call it all kinds of fun names, but realistically we're still client server days at the edge for the most part, except for the IoT era where everyone said we'll just connect that device to the, you know, direct to the cloud. Right, And then oh, except for these things, then you'll connect it direct into your on-prem stuff, which is the server. Right.

Stacey Shulman: 14:01

And then we kind of go into that hybrid model. But yeah, I, I'm, I fully believe that we're going to continue distributing out workloads out to the edges and decentralized.

Pete Bernard: 14:13

Well, yeah, now we have more orchestration capabilities, right. So now we can orchestrate workloads and we can run them on the cloud or we can run them on the kind of metro edge, we can run them on the on-prem edge, we can run them on even cameras and sensors, right. So once you have more orchestration around it now, you can sort of treat it as kind of one holistic system.

Stacey Shulman: 14:34

Ideally.

Pete Bernard: 14:35

That's what the PowerPoint tells me, but the actual deployment usually gets a little gnarlier than that. But yeah, hey, i was going to also ask you about another thing that I was seeing, and I think Intel's always been sort of on the cutting edge of this too, is I think you, intel was recently talking about IPUs, so infrastructure processing units, and someone was asking me about IPUs and GPUs and NPUs And one of the things that's been happening and this is a long trend is, you know, we all started with these kind of core compute units, but then quickly, they say yesterday's software is tomorrow's hardware, right, so these workloads are like well, we actually need processing units, we need semiconductors that can actually compute these very specific workloads like GPUs or neural processing units and NPUs, and so now Intel has the infrastructure processing unit for managing packets and other sort of network infrastructure, and so that seems to be sort of the next frontier is more PUs, i guess.

Stacey Shulman: 15:34

Well, i guess I think like what's old is new, right? I mean we, we. If you look at compute, everything was purpose built for a long time.

Stacey Shulman: 15:44

And then you know Intel comes in with more heterogeneous, you know can can compute anything, And that's not the right answer always either. And then everyone starts putting accelerators on top of that, and so but we've always had FPGA we're not always, but you know we've had FPGAs and ASICs and EA6 and and those sorts of things for a while. And and GPU, and you know we've had map coprocessors. you know we've always had some, some chip that did a special function.

Stacey Shulman: 16:13

that was add on right an accelerator to other things, and I think that this time is no different. I'd hate for the pendulum to swing though I don't believe it's going to swing in the opposite direction, where everything is, you know, fit for purpose kind of compute. I don't believe that it will go there because it's just not efficient.

Pete Bernard: 16:33

you know right, doesn't scale.

Stacey Shulman: 16:35

Yeah And so, but I do think that there's a need for more targeted accelerators and for architectures that allow for plug and play for accelerators, or for even, you know, software based accelerators, that that you know can turn on and off functionality or repurpose parts of the chip to be able to do that. And so that's Stacey's opinion on on how that is going.

Pete Bernard: 17:05

Well, i mean, it's kind of getting back to the edge compute thing You taught. You give some examples there's, you know, the edge compute world is a pretty heterogeneous world. There's lots of things going on out there. You said medical equipment and retail equipment and point of sale and machinery like manufacturing, and so all of these things they don't fall into a single bucket, right, they're all optimized and doing workloads that are very specific and fit for purpose And so in some cases they will need some acceleration, very specific workloads, and so that's where hardware and silicon and semiconductors can add a little oomph or necessary oomph to drive the right sort of price power sort of connection there. So so, yeah, no, i think we'll see more of it, but, like you said, there'll be a finite number of them. Hopefully it won't get too prolific. Keeps the software developers jobs interesting to kind of make sure that they're getting the right code to write on the right. On the right.

Stacey Shulman: 18:02

We'll just put more abstraction layers in, right.

Pete Bernard: 18:05

Yeah, of course, you can always do that more low code no code drag and drop Right And then all of the all of, of course. Then the silicon developer is kind of pulling their hair out because they've built this beautiful chip that has like 93 abstraction layers on top.

Stacey Shulman: 18:19

Yeah, well, then we get back to general purpose anyways, at that point Exactly.

Pete Bernard: 18:23

Yeah, oh, one of the things I was going to ask you about, too, is around. So the podcast is about edge computing, but not just fees and speeds and gates and all that good stuff, but also about the business edge computing and business model innovation. We were talking earlier about self disruption or cannibalization, or how do you disrupt? and one of the ways you disrupt is just kind of going at the business in a different way. And how do you see like edge computing and some of this innovation happening in some of these verticals, like disrupting business models?

Stacey Shulman: 18:54

Yeah Well, you'll probably never. no one will ever hear me talk about speeds and feeds, ever. I'm a terrible silicon sales person And but you know I'd say so. I spend my life talking about this question right here, which is what are the use cases that matter?

Stacey Shulman: 19:13

in the industry and in the industries that I, that I, you know, come across. I think that you know, on the question of what will disrupt these industries out there, i don't know that it's it's a new thing. I think it's just an acceleration of an existing thing which is under the category of automation, and we can we can, you know insert AI metaphors here, we can use AI terms here, but I like to simplify it in terms of automation And you know, when I look at new types of automation, is that automation for feeding the right information at the right time to the person who's standing in front of a customer.

Stacey Shulman: 19:53

So there's automation that way, the automation of the creative process. We're seeing generative AI do a really good job of really automating the creative process and adding automation into that process and taking friction out for the creators, and that's the creative community is kind of going through a renaissance with it right now.

Pete Bernard: 20:14

Yeah. I guess, it's a renaissance, yeah, so like that It's just a real revolution, right, it is kind of a renaissance for the creatives.

Stacey Shulman: 20:21

You're talking to people you know on the looking to automate more you know for optimizing.

Stacey Shulman: 20:28

it's a little different, but for the creative community I'm seeing it isn't huge unlock for them for being able to kind of have a ping pong partner that's a creative ping pong partner to kind of bounce ideas off of and figure out, kind of formulate some other thoughts and whatever, and and all of the kind of ways that it automates that in the creative community. I've found that to be really interesting And so I kind of think through like all right, if the creative community is getting unlocked right now and creativity is getting unlocked, what does that mean for Business? and I'm one of those optimists that believe, you know, if creativity is unlocked it always does great for business. Mm-hmm, what, what that will be? it's hard to say because the space is moving faster, and I thought it would yeah, yeah, we were talking about that.

Pete Bernard: 21:18

No, i think it's you're right. I mean It is interesting to see how you know, not to sort of totally rat hole in the generative AI which every conversation seems to these days, but the What is the impact on content and creativity? and one could argue, i don't know, if you listen to Scott Galloway, he had a whole interesting podcast talking about content and some of the Just the numbers and economics around content, especially from the streamers. If you look at it, like there's certainly they just aren't enough people like in the world to consume the content that's currently being created by these streaming platforms. There's already so much content being created. I mean you and I are probably the same thing like it's too much to watch and keep up with. And so now we'll have generative AI Creating more content faster. And I know I'm sure humans will be involved at some point. But you know, talking about upper bounds, you may, we may, reach an upper bound of just not being able to consume All the generative AI content being created. But Anyway, that's my rat hole on generative AI.

Stacey Shulman: 22:19

I think we're at those upper bounds anyways, and I guess I look at it a little differently. There's content. There's always been tons of content. You know, there's libraries filled, filled with content and there has been for a long time. It's the it. To me, it's more about Curated content and how do I best Get to the content that I need?

Stacey Shulman: 22:40

and so I don't see it necessarily as I know. Some people see it as a content generator, got it And it does a fine job at that, but I also see it more importantly is a Curator for us, you know, based on our needs it. You can't get that from Google, you can't get that from any kind of search engine today. You know, really curating content for you that is based on your context and your intention. Yeah what you're trying to do.

Pete Bernard: 23:09

a comp, Yeah no, i agree with that. I think that's. I'll give you an interesting anecdote in this. You know, anytime we talk about sort of AI helping people curate Experiences, there's always this kind of someone throws the anecdote on a table. So I'll throw mine on the table. So you know, i uploaded my resume to I don't know. It was like indeed calm or one of those things. So in my background, you know, i used to work at Phoenix technology. I was a biosteveloper and I used to write an assembly code, and so I think it's on my resume somewhere that I have assembly or whatever in there. So, lo and behold, i get this job. You know, they send you the email saying you would be great for this job And it was a job for like putting together playgrounds, like assembling playgrounds basically, and it was like somewhere on the East Coast and it was like 20 bucks.

Pete Bernard: 23:54

I mean assembly so I know and I'm like, well, how did they possibly think this made sense for me? And then I saw the word assembly and I was like aha, They must have like scraped this word from my resume and somehow decided assembling playgrounds is the same thing. But anyway, i digress.

Stacey Shulman: 24:10

That's just, you know, it's or your search history has playground equipment in it recently.

Pete Bernard: 24:16

Yeah, not recently. No, i'm, my kids haven't used playground equipment in a long time, but but no, i certainly I would love. I would love an agent or some some co-pilot to use a Microsoft term to help me navigate content and Find stuff I'm interested in. And Netflix does an okay job. But even then I don't have enough time. But that's. That's a whole other discussion. Yeah, no, business model innovation, the other thing that I saw.

Pete Bernard: 24:41

I'm curious what you think about this too. This is kind of like a meta trend, but like a lot of the I don't call it classification, but the as a service of occasion of tech, can you even argue as a service of occasion of life. People are getting gigs and Ubers and other things that are everything's happening now on demand and people are expecting to pay for their software and kind of their tech on demand as well, which is kind of hard when you're in the hardware business where you have real capex costs and inventory and You can't just sort of take your product and divide by 12 and say, now it's a subscription, right. So it's like I think one of the things that will be happening I think it's there's a little bit of a productive tension going on is How do we move things into more of an as of us, as a service model that have traditionally been more kind of single purchase, and I don't think we've kind of crossed that cashing yet, but I think it's sort of, i think it's getting there. I don't know.

Stacey Shulman: 25:38

I think so too, and I would challenge how people are thinking about it. In some ways, i I think there's this assumption early days in the as a service that the reason that the big value of it Was the financial model of it.

Stacey Shulman: 25:51

The op-ex capex Yeah and I've heard this argument op-ex capex so many times and like that's great unless you, you know, you're under spending your capex budgets And I think the trend is really about flexibility and the ability to, you know, have something up and running quickly. So I think that. So, if we look at it from the lens of being nimble and Being responsive to the needs that I have right now, you know, i think that we we look at it a little differently. So it may be not be. It might not be that somebody's asking for a Create, a financing model for their hardware, which is essentially what a lot of these, like hardware as a service models, turn out Right right.

Stacey Shulman: 26:37

It might just be that they're really asking for the simplicity to be able to manage it differently. So I always encourage companies like let's go solve the actual root of the problem, which is speed of innovation, and, you know, if it's really creative financing and it's really a financial instrument, there's ways to solve that. The tech industry doesn't really need to. It's not a technical solve to go solve a financial instrument.

Pete Bernard: 27:05

Right.

Stacey Shulman: 27:06

But the tech solve is, it gets harder. You know, the easy solve is well, let me just charge you differently. The hard solve is well, let me make it easy for you to manage those things. Stand them up, provision them you know, get them onto your network, make sure they're secure. That's the hard solve.

Pete Bernard: 27:24

Yeah.

Stacey Shulman: 27:25

And that's what I kind of push people to like. let's talk about that hard solve and why it's needed right now more than ever and how it will be used in industries. So that's always my push back on the hardware as a service, now the other as a service stuff. I think it still stands, you know most of it is still. We gravitate towards that because it's just so much the perception that it's much easier and much more accessible to get started with.

Pete Bernard: 27:54

Right Yeah, the speed. Like you said, the speed and you know there's flexibility there too.

Pete Bernard: 27:59

So part of it is you know, if I'm bringing up a whole system, let's say, to count cars in the parking lot of my local fried chicken place, then you know I want to. I want the flexibility to improve that, you know, as the hardware gets better without having to rewrite my code. So there's some portability issues too that people, going back to our abstraction layers comments right, how do I make sure I'm not hard coding my parking lot system into like this camera that was built like 15 years ago or something? So yeah, it has a lot of impact when you try to move to an as a service model in real life, like with actual, you know physical goods. But it'll be interesting to see how that kind of plays out. I think it's. I think it's something that every tech company needs to think about is like they have to have some kind of way of addressing that. Like you said, customers have those needs. You can't just go at them with you know your business model and say take it or leave it.

Stacey Shulman: 28:56

So when I'm seeing not just tech companies and we saw this in retail, you know, with rentals I'm cars, with leases, i mean you see it in every industry that that went into kind of the. I'm not fully committed to the long term with this thing. But I definitely want to use it for a certain amount of time, until you know that's the I want to get the value out of it from this for this amount of time, And I think that you know the tech is following that same trend.

Pete Bernard: 29:28

Yeah, well, i mean, music streaming is kind of canonical example, right, it's like people just used to buy albums and well, i guess they do buy albums now again, but you just buy music, then they stream music, now they're buying vinyl but whatever. Yeah, it's kind of the same thing. Yeah, no, it's interesting to see that, and the kind of I always when I talk to companies about business model innovation is how do they build that kind of flexibility into their business model from the beginning And try to meet the customers where they're at? So that's interesting.

Pete Bernard: 35:44

So yeah, a lot of interesting things going on until these days. I mean, we can go on and on, but the I don't know if you've read that book, chip War.

Stacey Shulman: 35:53

I have not read it.

Pete Bernard: 35:54

Oh, you should read the book. That's the name of the author. But yeah, it's a great history of semiconductors. I had that as kind of required reading on my team And it was like really from the very beginning and obviously Intel and noise and all these folks And and then the evolution of that and you know Intel as a obviously a pioneer in the space and also as a fab And a lot of people don't necessarily understand the distinction between a fab versus a chip designer And Intel is actually both And so yeah, no, it's, it's a, it's a fascinating space And so I can imagine you mentioned, you know, levi's, having this 160 year history and being a leader. I think Intel's as close to the closest thing we have to a Levi's, i think, in the chip space.

Stacey Shulman: 36:39

Yeah, no, it was. the parallels were crazy when I came over to Intel in between, even just like the internal mechanisms that were there. You know that that get put in place when you are the category leader.

Pete Bernard: 36:55

Yeah yeah, i assume it's a long history. Oh, yeah, yeah, no, at Microsoft, you could definitely see the historical patina on our processes and our buildings in some cases, which is fantastic from a historical perspective And and there's, yeah, a lot of strength in that. And I know you said sometimes some challenges too, but no, it's always interesting to see what comes out of Intel these days And, yeah, no shortage of opportunities and challenges as well.

Stacey Shulman: 37:20

So Well, I think that the thing with these legacy companies, these heritage companies, I would say the. Microsofts, the Intel's, the Levi's companies, like that is. You know, even though everyone likes to see the leader fall a little bit, you know, it seems to be like the general thing is let's it doesn't matter Roots for the underdog, yeah exactly So.

Pete Bernard: 37:41

everyone likes to see a little bit of that.

Stacey Shulman: 37:45

But at the same time no one wants to see the leader fail And you know, especially when it's such a rich part of the heritage of a country in it. And I don't think I'm overstating that right.

Stacey Shulman: 37:59

You know, if I talked about Levi's even in that context, you know you see pictures of people sitting on the at the fall of the Berlin Wall and Levi's. You know there's just such rich stories and heritage and and I think that's a really interesting thing And you know there's just such rich stories and heritage and you see that it Intel, you see that it companies like Microsoft, and so honoring that heritage but at the same time, pushing it and challenging it and you know, shaking it sometimes, trying to get it to be less complacent is part of what we've all got to do.

Pete Bernard: 38:31

Thanks again, stacy, for joining me here, and our listeners Really appreciate your insights. Yeah, no, it was great talking to you again, as usual, and stay well. Yeah thanks, thanks, pete. Thanks for joining us today on the Edge Celcior Show. Please subscribe and stay tuned for more and check us out online about how you can scale your Edge compute business. Yeah, yeah, yeah.