Join us as we pull up a seat with Ryan Walker, the Senior Vice President of Federal Affairs at Shumaker Advisors, a man whose journey to the heart of government relations in the energy industry reads more like an adventure novel than a career path. Not one to shy away from the labyrinth of government affairs, Ryan offers us a rare look behind the scenes. From the humble beginnings of a small town in Ohio to the throbbing heart of Washington, Ryan shares how his passion and drive have fueled his career and how energy policy took the center stage.
Our conversation takes us deep into the world of Congress, where we uncover the hidden nuances and complexities of the four P's - people, policy, politics, and process. Ryan, a veteran in the field, underlines the importance of understanding the political landscape in order to craft effective policy, and the necessity of resilience in the chaotic world of government affairs. We also shine a light on the often overlooked areas of collaboration in Congress, despite the divisive rhetoric and the difficulty of measuring success in a field where progress is often anything but linear.
He shares insights on how he keeps up with the rapidly changing industry and how he helps companies navigate the rigors of regulatory and legislative processes. From task completion to passion for energy policy, we explore how you can contribute to the future of energy policy. So, pull up a seat and join this captivating conversation on the intricate world of government relations in the energy industry.
Join us as we pull up a seat with Ryan Walker, the Senior Vice President of Federal Affairs at Shumaker Advisors, a man whose journey to the heart of government relations in the energy industry reads more like an adventure novel than a career path. Not one to shy away from the labyrinth of government affairs, Ryan offers us a rare look behind the scenes. From the humble beginnings of a small town in Ohio to the throbbing heart of Washington, Ryan shares how his passion and drive have fueled his career and how energy policy took the center stage.
Our conversation takes us deep into the world of Congress, where we uncover the hidden nuances and complexities of the four P's - people, policy, politics, and process. Ryan, a veteran in the field, underlines the importance of understanding the political landscape in order to craft effective policy, and the necessity of resilience in the chaotic world of government affairs. We also shine a light on the often overlooked areas of collaboration in Congress, despite the divisive rhetoric and the difficulty of measuring success in a field where progress is often anything but linear.
He shares insights on how he keeps up with the rapidly changing industry and how he helps companies navigate the rigors of regulatory and legislative processes. From task completion to passion for energy policy, we explore how you can contribute to the future of energy policy. So, pull up a seat and join this captivating conversation on the intricate world of government relations in the energy industry.
You.
Speaker 2:And welcome to a new energy crew podcast with me, your host, jp Warren. I want to thank everybody out there for tuning in on this special Every not every energy crew podcast special. I think you know the, the conversations, how they're a candid, how they're natural, how they grow and what we do on energy crew Podcasts, very similar to kind of what we're gonna be doing. Exact crew, which is what is, which is the company that is bringing you this energy crew podcast, and what we're gonna be talking about is you know, people's passions, what drives them, people's strengths, people's Vulnerabilities. You know we're all. You know people. It's like celebrating you know People's successes and achievements, but also we also deal with some struggles and vulnerabilities as well. And exact crews gonna be a limited membership Networking group that's gonna be there to elevate people's networks and knowledge. When we're gonna have different leaders, founders, they're gonna be not only teaching what their passions and strengths are, but also learning from other members. So if you're interested about learning more about that, head over to connection crew, comm under exact crew to learn more and also apply today, because it is limited membership and we that's it, so it's limited membership. So if you're interested in applying, learn more about that and head over there now and I'm excited on, obviously, if you, if you enjoy these Episodes and all that stuff, feel free to share, tag like, subscribe, talk about it around the lunchroom, break rooms, wherever you're at. If you're working from home, talk about the kitchen, piss off your spouse. I love it, but that's what we're all about. So we are. I am happy to bring on our new, our new guest, our guest of this week, which is a Ryan Walker, who is, which actually is kind of a cool scenario. He's the senior vice president of federal affairs at Shoemaker advisors and and, ryan, I'm excited about this because, first off, a lot of reason I'm very fascinated about kind of the government side of the government relations and kind of how our industry is, is is represented in the government and Kind of the connections that are made in the conversations that are happening. So, honestly, this is kind of a new topic, a new area. You're in a new field realm, if you will, as a guest, and I'm happy to have you here because I'm asked a lot of stupid questions. I hope you're okay with that.
Speaker 1:No, happy to ask away, all right Well first off.
Speaker 2:Okay, let's start off. So I'm. I'm recording this in Houston, texas. Ron. Where are you at right now? Are you up in DC?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So I live just outside of the Washington DC area in Northern Virginia about, you know, 10 miles from the city.
Speaker 2:Okay so I love this. I want to dive into this real quick. At first, I want to find out a little bit of background about you. Okay. So for those that are tuning in in their cars in the gym we're gonna listen into this I kind of want to get like an elevator summary on kind of your background. You know who you are, where you've been, where you're at today, and then I just want to kind of open up the kind of the topic, kind of find out how you've gotten into your role right now, what you dig about it and any you know stories or anything like that that people kind of get involved and kind of tune in more on kind of environment of the political realm when it comes to the energy space. So start us off and who you are, who are you?
Speaker 1:Yeah, jp. No, first of all, thanks for having me. I think this is great, this is great opportunity. And Look, you know, I'm born and raised from Ohio, from a small town called Defiance, ohio, you know. Move to.
Speaker 2:What's that great name for a town?
Speaker 1:Yeah, people, people think either you know, they either know of the town because they watched I've never watched an episode, I'll be honest but people tell me that it's it's referenced on the show scandal. I don't know. But or people are like I don't, you know. You know, it's just a small little. You know North Midwestern rural town in Northwest Ohio Did minor grad at Kent State University and then after I graduated from Kent I moved to Washington and I've been here for about 22 years. Started on Capitol Hill is just a lowly. You know staff assistant answering phones and you know I was given a great opportunity by the late Congressman Paul Gilmore and and kind of dope.
Speaker 2:So wait, I'm not, I'm not. I also want to hear about this journey, because I think either you're brushing over a lot of things, that that you're probably used to kind of stealing, you know around the table, but I'm not. So how'd you go from from Ohio again to where you always passionate about the Plus, all talking about that?
Speaker 1:No, actually. Well, I've always liked politics, even in high school and things like that. But I grew up in a law enforcement family and I went to school and got my Criminal justice degree and I thought I was gonna go be in federal law enforcement. I'd, you know, got a conditional offer of employment from the DEA and Said, hey, all you gotta do is pass a background check, you know, go to training and all this other kind of stuff. And then the government went on a hiring freeze and I was kind of like, oh, I don't know what I'm gonna do, but I'd always had an interest in politics and someone said, well, you ought to go and maybe talk to your, your local congressman. So I went and had a conversation with his chief of staff His name is Mark Wellman and he gave me you know, the guy gave me my first opportunity on the. You know I said, look, I want to move to Washington and I was gonna go to who's, I was gonna work on working Capitol Hill and then also get my master's degree George Washington University, which I did, yeah, and so I did both and I thought, you know, even my now wife said, you know, well, we're only gonna be in DC for three years and then we'll move out and we'll go and get my law enforcement career started or we'll move back to Ohio. Well, that never happened and materialized. And we're here 22 years and people call it Potomac fever and and I, you know, I think I caught it. I've been here for 22 years and, and you know, it's been a blast raising my family here now and what is that lie?
Speaker 2:I mean, I think that's so interesting to kind of like go up there. You know it's like people you know who want to like either break down the old I had to start in the old field. If you're, though, you know, break out Hollywood, what'd you do? Like I just wouldn't there, start talking to someone. What was that experience like for you? I mean, like, how do you position yourself and talking to like the center or congressman, but I want to come here and move here and live here. What do you want to do? I don't know. Like. I mean, how does that? How does that conversation go from? I want to do something here to say, okay, well, you're moving. I mean what?
Speaker 1:does that look like it's? You know there's. There's no one right way or no one path to any in politics at all. Um, so what I did was when I found myself, I was, you know, interested. I was, I was going to graduate school at George Washington University. I needed a job. I was like, okay, I'm gonna. I started emailing and calling the chief of staff to my member of congress and, uh, I didn't hear from them. I didn't hear from them. So finally, my Girlfriend, on my wife, and I drove out to Washington. I was just gonna do, uh, I was going to do an airdrop of my, my resume. I was going to print about, you know, 400 copies of it and walk around Capitol Hill and just drop them off at office and I walked in to To my, my congressman's office, and I said, hey, I'm looking for mark wellman. And he's like that's me. And I said, hey, I'm the guy that's been emailing you and calling you incessantly. And he's like, oh, I'm so sorry, this was after 9-eleven. He's like I got called up to my reserve unit. I've been out, he goes do you have time now? When I said I've got all the time in the world. So we ended up having about an hour hour and a half long conversation and then he is the, the congressman's Assistant, called me and said, hey, I was already back in Ohio at this point and said, hey, the congressman would like to meet with you at his at his local office in Ohio. Can you be here at such and such time? Absolutely. So I went out there and met with his chief of staff in the congressman. They said, hey, you know we really don't have a spot, but we think we can use you in Washington. Would you be interested in some kind of a hybrid role? And I said, look up, yes, okay, yes is the answer. So they hired me, they brought me on To kind of the staff assistant legislative course, monomeral where I was writing letters to constituents, I was answering phones, I was leading tours for constituents and that's just kind of how it started.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay. So how did tell me about, I guess, your your career Progression on from where you started out? I guess you know writing these letters, constituents and all this stuff. You know answer phone with, doing tours and all that stuff. What led you into the energy space mode, that life free? Have you any? Had you any background previously? No, no, no no, I didn't.
Speaker 1:Like I said, I didn't come from an oil gas family or an energy family, it was, you know, it was just I enjoyed the policy. I started getting into it and then, when I was the legislative director for Congressman Gilmore, when he, he passed away in office, unfortunately, and then I was like, okay, I don't know, I don't know what I'm gonna do, but the, the gentleman who was elected to replace him, now Congressman Bob Latter, asked me to stay on to be his chief of staff. I went from a pure policy role to a to a more of a management role where I ran his, his official government and his political Operation. And I did that. I was his chief of staff for eight years and in that process we were, he really he's a, he's a great guy, he's he's a true legislators Legislator and he's very interested in policy. And you know, we kind of went through this iteration of what committee he he wanted to be on and in Congress they have, they have these great Asians of committee, they have a committees, be committees and then kind of everything else.
Speaker 2:What's a and B? How do you kind of just like, is it cruise? Like they can be the committees that have the most impact, the ones that like you want being? Yeah, what are they?
Speaker 1:so any committees are your Appropriations committee, ways and means committee, so tax writing and revenue policy. Your financial services committee, which handles, you know, everything from Wall Street to your local banks, and then some, and now even Crip, and now even cryptocurrency. To my favorite committee, the energy and commerce committee it has the broadest jurisdiction of any committee in Congress and I think at one point I don't know if it's still true to this point it had oversight over about one-fifth of the US economy, from health care to energy, to telecommunications, to technology policy, and it was a. It was a Committee that didn't, that had a reputation of working on a bipartisan basis. Even though there was disagreements, they often worked and they still do to this day. Frankly, they work in a very bipartisan basis and you know, we we agreed and like okay, we're gonna go for this committee. So we did all the things that we needed to do, showed our interest, showed our commitment and then, back in 2010 so about two years, year and a half after he was elected to Congress we, we were granted a seat on the energy and commerce committee and then started to work from there to where now Congressman Lata is a is a subcommittee chairman on the energy and commerce committee and poised, you know, in the future to be the chairman of the full committee.
Speaker 2:Okay, so walk me back a little bit. Um, there's a lot to unwrap here. First off which is great, because I probably have a lot of stupid questions. There are no stupid questions. Okay, so, currently today, what is what does Ryan do today For the, I guess, of government affairs, for Schumacher visors for the? What do you do today for the energy, energy policy and all that? So we?
Speaker 1:So, look, I'm a lobbyist. I wear like the scarlet L, you know, either it's lobbyists or lawyers or kind of the two most hated professions. But you know, frankly, what we do is is embedded in the Constitution. In the first amendment it says the people have the right to petition their government for the redress of grievances. Okay, and that's where lobbyists come in is? You know, if you think about it, everybody, no matter everybody, has a lobbyist somewhere, like if you're involved in, you know, if you're in an AARP, you know you have a lobbyist.
Speaker 2:And so for those that kind of are familiar with gardening, all stuff like so, lobbyist pretty much is someone that goes in there, kind of provides Information, tries to kind of is it swaying a decision or is it providing information for a decision? I mean, what does that look like? How do you define?
Speaker 1:so we're advocates. We and I break it up we educate first and then we advocate second. So we educate them on the policy, both our position and the opponent's position. You know we have to understand our, the opposition, and then we, and then we, we make asks, we advocate. And look, I mean members of Congress and their staff are free to say, hey, we like that. Or you know, go pound sand, and so we spend. I spent my career In, I spent 14 years in government, five years as an in-house lobbyist at a super major and now is a Multi-client lobbyists. So we do everything from energy to transportation to, you know you name it. But we spend our time understanding what I call the four P's the people, the policy, the politics and the process. So we, you know we understand the people who make the decisions and who are involved in government. So the members of Congress, the staff, the regulators, the policy. You know what are we talking about. The process how does it move through Congress? You know this isn't. You know people, this isn't schoolhouse rock, this isn't how a bill becomes a law. You know it's, it's. You know the sausage is made much, much differently. Okay, and you know we understand that process. But most importantly, I think people miss out on the politics, because politics drives policy and politics drives a process. Politics drives people. It's all about politics, and that's not being negative on everything.
Speaker 2:It's not negative, but I could see how there is some great area. There's a lot of area for interpretation. It's like, okay, well, politics sway this, but what's gonna cause this to shift? Why would this person shift their decision? What political driving attachment is pulling them this way and that way? There seems to be a lot to the pop.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, look, you have 535 members of Congress, you have the White House, you have the regulatory agencies, but specifically I'll focus on both Congress and the regulatory agencies. Congress you have 535 members, like I said you have, and each one of those 535 members have their own agenda. Yeah, whether you're a representative representing a district or you're a senator representing an entire state, you each have your own agendas. You each are up for an election at some point and wanna get reelected. You each have different concerns in your states or districts driving that process. So it's, ultimately, it's the greatest form of government and, in my opinion, because you get all of these, this cornucopia of interest and concerns and politics, and you're mixing them all together and then you're coming out with a lot of times, with a policy that's passed both houses of Congress and is signed by the president of the United States. It's a messy process, but it is the best process in the world.
Speaker 2:How do you? Okay, I wanna put a pin in this question, so please bring it back to me. I wanna talk about the energy experience and your circle and what you deal with, but talk to me about. I wanna hear it real quick. I wanna go back to the whole messy process, and it's the best process. Going in it, everyone's got their own. Every person's bowl is filled with something else, something different that will drive them a motivation. Do you have to be wired a certain way to thrive and function in an environment like that? Or I mean, how do you stay, I guess, motivated? Because it seems like such a grind. It seems like such a grind and the persistence of someone would outweigh, I guess, the call from good or something. I mean the persistence of someone Like you know, it's like whatever. Just give it to them. Like, how do you stay motivated in this environment?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it takes a special kind of person, not like we're unique or anything, but I tell people look, I'm a professional extrovert. Yeah, I'm a professional extrovert, like I go, I spend most of my time on Capitol Hill and talking with members, talking with staff, just getting to know them on a personal level, I mean. And then when I come home on the weekends I'm like nobody talked to me. Yes, because my social meter is on empty, right. But so then I but it's. But you have to balance that, obviously, with being happy to dad and husband and all that kind of stuff as well. But you have to be willing to go and just talk to people and get to know them and not be and get to know them on a genuine level. Because this, because Washington can be and is often seen as a very transactional town yeah, but the people that who are here for a long time, get to know everybody. Look, it's the biggest small town in America and where everybody knows everybody and everybody's business and know about everything. And it's you know, it's your reputation, it's your. You have to be honest, look, I mean, if you're not, I ride on my name. Do trust people, trust me, do people believe me If I ever lie to anybody, then I'm done. Look, I'm always going to be honest with people and say, look, here's what I think you know. And they'll say, well, what do you think we should do? And you know, especially when I was a chief of staff and my boss would look to me and say, hey, what should we do here? You know you always have to take everything into account and give them the best advice with the best information and the most relevant information as possible. Then let them make their decision.
Speaker 2:You know what's interesting, ryan. I mean so like before we had this conversation, like I, first of all, I didn't realize how about this? My perceived stereotype of you know lobbyists. You look at Washington, it's pretty much based, you know house of cards in every single other political, you know whatever. You just show that it's out there. You know like whatever. But what you're describing is, I feel like there's a huge characteristics that are very similar to the oil field, to the energy industry, which is your name does mean everything. It is a small town. You can't be going in line, you know at your side of your mouth. This way it's with someone completely different and it's a small town. The only gas industry, the only gas space is, I feel like it's exactly the same. You have your name, you have your reputation, you have to be ethical, you have to have a lot of trust and you have to be genuine with people, and I love the fact you're talking about the transactional conversations are so heightened in DC because we're seeing that as well here. So it kind of sounds like we're kind of doing the same thing. You obviously on a grand or bigger. You know more impact on scale, but it kind of sounds like you know, it is kind of the same environment, same atmosphere, and you really kind of need the same characteristics.
Speaker 1:Yeah, look, I mean what we do. I mean we lobby for a multitude of different clients and we're not just helping the big guys. We don't represent any super majors or anything like that. You know, we're representing oil-filled service companies small, mid-sized, medium or small and medium-sized, you know, oil and gas companies, things like that because their voice matters too and, frankly, sometimes even more, because they're the ones that are doing it here at home and it gives them a lot of, because that was Ryan Tese last time, not that. Yeah, giving those smaller operators not suit them into their voice. Their voice matters. And look, you have a lot of different. We're I often term ourselves, we're a newer firm. I mean the law firm. We're part of a larger law firm that's been around for 100 years. But in terms of our Washington operation, I started that about two years ago and have brought on two other guys to join me. We're fully bipartisan and we're sort of an insurgent in the Washington market. We're taking the smaller clients, we're doing things to help because we love it and we're passionate about it. Look, I love oil and gas. We're never gonna be without oil and gas. But there's also this issue of not just the People. It's often termed as the energy transition. My term is the energy expansion. Yes, and because it's not just it's hydrogen, it's everything else Sustainable aviation fuel, everything that goes along with it. But oil and gas, is it going anywhere? I mean petrochemicals, everything like that. It's gonna be around. Otherwise, people won't be able to drive their Teslas because they won't be able to make plastic.
Speaker 2:Well, let me ask you a question. I mean so it seems like the energy reality. So we've talked about this before. I'm excited to have you on our other podcast, energy Facts Chats, mike Umbra. We're discussing energy expectation, energy realities. So it sounds to me like people understand. So, sitting in Houston, 3,000 miles away from D-3, just like a lot of people in the States sitting this far away, you see these headlines come out. You see these decisions come out that are oftenly we see that are kind of politically driven. Okay, what we're seeing come out is not realistic. It's the energy realities aren't meeting energy expectation. Is there really that big of a disconnect? Or is it just people like, or is it just kind of, the political parties obviously we don't have to do this. Is it just kind of them kind of filling their boat to get that reelection, like they understand that only gas can be around longer than 10 years or we need a mix of all sources of energy and not make one a villain and phase it out. Is there really that big of a disconnect or is it kind of an understanding, or is it that makes sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it makes sense. Let me put it this way Elections have consequences, okay, and everyone needs to have a voice in the process, and this is like my PSA, I guess. People need to vote, people need to get involved in the government process, from the smallest company to the largest company. Okay, and engaging through lobbyists or trade associations or anything like that are always important, and but you have the media driving narratives of the, I guess, the most vocal portions of each party, right, my former boss, Congressman Lada, who I talked about. He's a legislator's legislator. He's gonna talk to the other side. He's not gonna. He's not gonna. He's not gonna Isolate isolate, isolate.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I am not part with him.
Speaker 1:Right, he's not going to isolate himself, but he's also not going to give up or just abandon what he believes in. Right, he's not just going to leave that on the table, you know, and. But he'll work with the other side to try and get an answer, and I think a lot of members of Congress are that way, not all.
Speaker 2:Not all. We've never seen that in each case, Because what you read is like there's no working together. There's no this, this agenda and this agenda. There's nothing working.
Speaker 1:That's what you see on the news. That's wrong. I'll just say that's wrong. That's the media driving a narrative. That's the media, you know. That's that's the fringes on both sides, both parties wanting to be the loudest voices in the room to help drive that media narrative. But that couldn't be further from the truth. You have people like you know, Speaker McCarthy, who's bringing people to the table to have conversations. You have the chairman or the chairwoman of the energy and commerce committee in the house, Kathy Morris Rogers, who is who's working with Frank Pallone, the ranking member of the Democrat, and trying to create solutions, Joe Manchin, a Democrat, working with John Barrasso from Wyoming, and they're working together to try and get solutions. Now, they'll always be hyperbole out there. You know people wanting to get on Twitter in front of the camera, but no one talks about the what's really going on behind the scenes.
Speaker 2:Well, first off, ryan, that's extremely refreshing to hear. I mean, dude, it really is. I mean it's, it's, it's beyond my side, you saying, no, actually people actually do work together. Yeah, but what is the actual? You know, you sit around, you have a discussion, you see these, you know these lofty goals. Lofty goals. Obviously, don't just speak to this too much if you can't. But you walk in a room, you have people on both sides of the party. There's obviously a reality when it comes to energy supply, energy dependency, energy, this energy. That is it kind of what's those conversations? I mean Harvard, how do those, how do those transpire?
Speaker 1:Those conversations transpire with real experts at the staff level. A lot of the times that's where we start. When we have conversations, it's not going directly to the members because the members are pulled and it's just. It's just a function of the job. They're pulled in so many different directions by, you know, committee hearings, committee meetings, constituent meetings, all this other kind of you know things that take away from their time and attention. What we're doing is we're going to the staff and we're having these conversations with subject matter experts. You know the speaker.
Speaker 2:Any, any, any questions. Are they actually experts or is it just, are they just kind of pointed there and not experts?
Speaker 1:No, no, no. I think that I think that most people who are in issue specific jobs, whether it be energy or technology or you know pick an issue right. They're in that because they're passionate about it. They're in there because they want to learn more. You know, they're not just, they're not just sitting in their congressional offices. Like I said, this is August, right, so it's a congressional recess, so a lot of them are out either visiting companies, talking with you know, people on the ground. You know they're going to their boss's district to meet with different companies. They're having these meetings so that they can fill themselves with the, with the knowledge to go and serve the constituents better, to serve, you know, if you're in a leadership position, to serve the American people better.
Speaker 2:Okay, so how do you measure? I mean, so it seems like for some reason, it just it just feels like the environment, the realm and the and the and the feel that you take every day is a battlefield, the whole term of fighting battles and losing wars. How do you measure your success, your impact, because it is such an impactful, I guess, stage that you're on? How do you measure that person?
Speaker 1:So it's not like you know. So I I mean working at an oil and gas company and working with clients now who are engineers. It's not, you know, you have to learn to kind of, I guess, speak engineer a little bit, and it's you have to get them to understand that what I do and what we do here in Washington isn't a linear process. It's not started a and was Z. It can go from a to B to C to D, you know, all over the place. Right, it could even include some numbers in there, and but it's you know what we? What we do is is just getting people to understand that, you know, a win for us is let me use a real, relevant example. So we represent a company called Southern Rock Energy Partners. They're looking to build the first refinery in the United States since 1977. And it will be a refinery, a next gen refinery that will capture about 90 or 95% of the process emissions. And we brought the CEO, steve Ward, who is an amazing guy. We brought him to Washington because they site selected in Cushing, oklahoma, to build this refinery. And we met with, you know, senator Langford, we met with Senator Mullen, we met with all the other Oklahoma house delegation members to talk to them about the project. That's a win, because before that, you know, all they knew was about, you know they read something in the paper or their staff told them. But we brought the CEO here, you know, to hear directly from the horse's mouth as to what they're looking to do, how they're looking to do it and what the ultimate you know result will be. And you know, everybody in the Oklahoma delegation was super excited, as you can imagine, and they're like, yes, we want you here, let us know how we can help and that's the thing. A lot of these regulatory agencies you know, whether you're dealing with NEPA or Clean Air Act, clean Water Act, you're getting roadblocks and oftentimes the regulatory agencies aren't there to help you. They're there to stop. They often work to solve things. So we're working with the elected leaders you know elected members of Congress to help them. You know steer clear or get over these hurdles as efficiently as possible.
Speaker 2:So you're kind of advising them to kind of deal with other stuff. So, being in DC, being you know 3,000 miles yes, you're near, you know PA and all that stuff, the Northeast more. So how do you keep your finger on what's going on in the energy space? I mean, is that the company in Ohio feeding you information? Is that through just kind of you standing on top of the news or Twitter or whatever? How do you find your information and set up the date on, I guess, what's happened in the energy space? Would you being in DC?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I mean, I read, you know, all the time. There's just a. What do you read? Almost too much information. So I read. You know Politico puts out a daily publication called Morning Energy. I'm reading Axios. I'm reading, you know, I'm reading the Houston Chronicle. I'm reading Bloomberg Energy and you know anything energy I can get my hands on and, you know, always interested in more. If there's folks out there that want to recommend things for me to read, I'd be happy to read those. But then I talk to people, you know, talking to there's no, there's no substitute for talking to people. I've come to Houston, you know, at least once a quarter, because I have a lot of clients that are in Houston, you know friends. So I get down. I love Houston, I get down there quite a bit and you know I set up lunches, I set up coffees just to talk to people and it is, it's one of the best things that I can do, because not only am I learning, I'm also. It's also for me, as you know, it's marketing too, it's business development. So talking with people and a lot of people, you know, like you were talking about JP don't know what lobbyists do, don't know what lobbyists are either have a negative connotation, you know to what they do, but we're actually here to help.
Speaker 2:But that's the thing though. So there's a lot of people right now kind of, you know, sitting in energy realm, energy space. You know we're talking about, you know the future of the industry, this net, that and all that stuff. Obviously they're brought by the news articles and this value to work, or tech and all that stuff. Let's kind of pull back from that. How can people I guess number one learn more about kind of how they can get involved with support, kind of energy, realistic policies, right, pro energy, pro all energy policies, and kind of, I guess, keep in touch with what you're doing. Where would the support be on your side, from people like me, you know, being in Texas, or people in, you know, in Oklahoma or Denver or something like that, that are listed in this. So, you know, we just get plugged in a little bit more, kind of same in touch with you or kind of go along.
Speaker 1:For the rest, yeah, I mean, look, I mean people can, people can have. I'm happy of my LinkedIn page. It has you can message me on LinkedIn. I think my email and phone number Are on LinkedIn. I'm pretty, I'm very accessible. I'm happy to help anybody.
Speaker 2:And how could you help someone? How could they help you?
Speaker 1:help you help some so look, I mean a lot of companies, neither small or medium-sized, especially in the and the oil field or oil field services. You know they're like, wow, they don't have these dedicated teams. You know, I think Ryan keys brought up that good point they don't have these dedicated teams that can they can help them manage the regulatory process, manage to let legislative process, because you don't just have to accept what the government Throws at you. You can work to change the law, you can work to change regulations. Okay, you do, is we'll? We're like a dog with a bone for our clients. Right, we'll go up and meet with members of Congress, with their staff. We'll go into meet with regulators, with career staff at EPA or a DOI or a DOE, you know, and we help these folks navigate that Regulatory and legislative you know morass for for lack of a better term, so that they're not just they don't, they don't have to just accept or become a victim of the process. They get to engage the process.
Speaker 2:So you encourage that? Is it so, when you encourage people that you know that have smaller, you know, service companies, small operators, something, something like that, that you're in the energy realm, that they do want to have a horse, do want to have some skin in the game, to reach out to you to kind of get involved and find out how to get involved? Because here's the deal in my circles, in my realm, you know, around the tables, around fruit club events and all this stuff, always hear about people Talk about, well, we got to do something. I wish we could do something. I always did like I wish someone would kind of hear my voice and all that stuff, mm-hmm. It would be kind of something for people that do want to have. Do you want to have that scale to reach out and say, hey look, ryan, whether you can help me out or not, or anything like that, I'm curious how I can help out with that be kind of something that you'd be interested in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, and you know it's not. People think, oh well, you know, washington lobbyists are all expensive and everything like that. Look where we're, we're sophisticated startup is. I often say we have between myself and my two colleagues, jason we may and Chris Salami. You know we have probably 40, probably 60 to 70 years of experience combined between the two of us here in Washington, and it is, you know, we can, we can help companies, whether it's whether there's, you know, one company that wants, that wants to engage us to help them, or whether there's maybe two, three, four smaller companies with a similar interest that want to combine resources To engage us to help them. We're all for that. We just want to make sure. I want to make sure. Frankly, I'm very passionate about energy policy and very passionate about oil and gas. And it's not just, you know, drill, baby drill, and then you know the heck with everything else. It's, it's, it's everything in totality. It's how can we reduce flaring? Because you know, if we're flaring, we're all, we're wasting, we're wasting resources. Yep, you know how can we do CCS? How can you know, do all of these different things? It's so it's not just drill and forget everything else. It's like how can we help any?
Speaker 2:well, that's a thing. That's kind of why, that's why I'm very, I'm happy we had this conversation today, because I think you know kind of what you just touched on, like whether you're you know, if I'm a service company and I'm talking to you for my you know, service buddies and I'm thinking, guys, we got to do something about this. This is just a parents of you know kind of a smaller business and that let's, let's kind of let's we just listen to that number one awesome Podcast, energy for you podcast. You know we had Ryan on. Let's all team up and contact Ryan, see if there's something that we can do, see if there's something you can do, because I like this, because I think there's a huge for me at least, there is a huge network gap of hey look, we'll sit around the table and bitch Monica playing, not stop, but what can we do about, who can we talk to? And I feel like there's a huge Disconnect on the networks or the knowledge or just kind of, how do you, how do you talk about this? So having you on this podcast and they is extremely impactful and I think that I would hope that people kind of reach out, kind of contact. You even just say hello, introduce yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean it is it's. It's important for people to engage the system and Whatever level whether it's local government, state government, federal government to just not accept If it look it, not accept what comes at them all the time. They don't have to just, you know, layer yeah, they don't have to lay down and take it, or they can be an active part, whether it's filing comments for, you know, a rulemaking at EPA or anything like that, well, you know, and then taking those comments to the Hill to talk to your members of Congress about look, this is what we just submitted and this is how it's going to impact our business. You know, to build there's layers. You know you have to build. It's not just filing comments and saying, oh, that's it, you can file comments and then you start to build layers of political support.
Speaker 2:That's fascinating. It really is fast, and he's almost thinking of so many different movers and pieces. I mean, you're talking about the four P's and obviously that one P is the most Murky, but it's also most important political side. How do you prioritize? I guess there's so much going on. How do you get not, how do you not get? Okay? A couple questions. How do you not get caught up in an echo chamber? I think echo chambers are Very. I think they're bankers. You know what I mean. How do you get out of your echo chamber and hear opposing views and to have discussions with opposing sides when it's not just you know you're just supporting your own views and moving, marching forward.
Speaker 1:Yeah, look, I have friends on both sides of the aisles. I talked to them about. You know all kinds of different policy and politics. You know everything from the upcoming elections to what Congress is going to do this fall. You know, I'm not just one of these guys who isolates myself into, you know, a Fox News echo chamber, so to speak. I like people and we can disagree without being disagreeable, and that's something that I think the media doesn't get right, because people are disagreeing without being disagreeable, but they're just saying you know, these people are ugly, all they do is yell at each other and they can't agree on anything.
Speaker 2:Well, I've heard that you know people put on shows. It's usually the loudest people that you know. Behind closed doors they're very different and once the cameras are on, they put on shows, they have to put on shows, they have to be the person out Without media. So what else can people do to kind of get involved or reach? I mean, how can people, I guess, make a big how about this? I want to ask you what is the biggest stereotype or non-truth out there about lobbyists or energy policy that you can change, that you can kind of disprove right now? And I guess, how can people? I guess how can people be as getting involved?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So the biggest kind of misconception is that lobbyists are these kind of you know operate in these smoke-filled back rooms where you know secret deals are cut and things like that and they lack moral compasses and all this other kind of stuff. That really isn't the case, like I know. I can speak for myself and my colleagues at Shoemaker Advisors. Look, we operate differently. We're all men of faith and we operate with that as our compass, our North Star, and we are. We're operating that way and we want to show people that advocacy is. We want to show them that it's hard because it is. It's not just you know, going into some you know smoke-filled back room with a cigar and you know a glass of bourbon and cutting a deal. It's hours, it's days, it's months, sometimes years of grinding to get to a point where you see legislative or regulatory action and it's hard work but it's fun work. I love it and I love working that way for our clients. And people can get in touch with me. You know I'm on LinkedIn. That's probably a real easy way. People can email me at ourwalkeratshoemakeradvisorscom. People can look on our firm's website, shoemakercom, and you know people can call me 703-582-0249.
Speaker 2:Really.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'll talk to anybody. I want to help people. You know we're in the helping business.
Speaker 2:I have one, okay, so we're kind of coming up with a time. I understand that you got a busy day ahead, so I got to just have one more thing. So, when you first start working energy policy okay, and this probably should have been the first question how do I go from okay like this, okay, this comes across my desk. Okay, I got this energy policy here, I'm going to go work on this. How do I go from your actual okay, this task before me today I need to work on to having energy policy as a passion? When did that shift happen? What did that feel like for you? I guess you understand my question. Yeah, yeah, okay. When did that happen.
Speaker 1:So it really it was the summer of when I really, like that, flipped the switch, so to speak. I think it was the summer of 2009, when we had gas prices were four or five dollars a gallon. There was an energy crisis. Republicans in the house stayed during August and there was a big it was political theater, really, to a certain extent where the Republicans were in the minority, democrats were in the majority. They shut the lights out in the chamber, they turned the microphones off, but Republicans were still there speaking on the floor for the entirety of August, taking shifts to talk about energy policy. And it really shifted in me. Then you always hear about the long gas lines during the Carter administration and everything like that. But this is. It was that moment for me that like, look, this is, it's more than just going to the gas station and putting gas in your vehicle. It's more than just flipping on the light switch. These are real things. And then it really cemented into me when I was interviewing. So I said that I worked at a super major. I was worked. I worked at BP. I had the US CEO at the time. I had my final interview. It was with him and he came in for, like I think it was 90 seconds because it was just kind of the last box to tick, and he said, hey, I understand you're, you're interested in working here. And he goes, what we do here is we light, heat and move the earth by providing people with reliable, affordable and abundant energy. If you can get behind that, you have a place here. And I was like sold and I was like this is fantastic. And and you see what energy policy good energy policy does lifts people out of poverty, provides people, you know, access to the middle class. It provides them with, you know, the ability to send their kids to college, to pay for their schooling, yeah, put a roof over the head and food on their table. You know, and this isn't this is a. This is a global issue. People in Africa deserve that right just as much as we do here in the United States. People in Indonesia should be afforded that right. Wherever there is energy poverty, we need to create energy wealth.
Speaker 2:Well, you got to tell you up with old Chris Wright with a Liberty Energy. He's speaking. He's speaking that language right now. No, but honestly I think, look, we're going to wrap this up, but I think it's a great point. I mean, you had there's a lot like, for example, before I got in the industry. I just thought you just, you know, put your you know, put the nozzle in the car and I put you on top. There is so much more to the energy space than people realize, and that's why it's so fascinating for me and that's why there is no silver bullet. You know, there is no silver bullets in the industry. It's, it's, it's everyone working together and it's and it's it's a healthy energy mix. So, brian, I appreciate you taking time on this. I would love to have you come back on. I look forward to seeing you in a couple. Actually, was that next week or the week after? Yeah, next week, I think. Dude, I'm looking forward to that. So you have me too. Well, true, couple of them. We've got an Umbro company in the house too, so that'd be exciting. But again, ryan, I want to thank you, thank you and everyone out there for tuning in to the Energy Crew podcast. And again, if you want to get in touch with Brian, you can find them on LinkedIn, find them in the show notes and I'll reach out to him, say hello and introduce yourself, to learn more, or just to just say hi. So I want to thank you everyone for tuning in, and we'll see you next time on Energy Crew podcast. Thank you,