Energy Crue
Welcome to 'Energy Crüe', the podcast that dives deep into the heart of industry innovation, entrepreneurship, and personal growth. I'm your host, JP Warren, and each episode, we embark on a journey to uncover the passions and motivations that fuel industry leaders. We're not just talking business here; we're exploring the personal drives, the triumphs, and the challenges that shape today's pioneers. Alongside these inspiring conversations, I'll be sharing my own story - the battles with imposter syndrome, the pivotal mindset shifts, and the lessons learned throughout my entrepreneurial voyage. As a certified coach, my goal is to empower you, our listeners, to break free from the barriers holding you back. Join me as we navigate both the professional and personal landscapes, learning and growing together with 'Energy Crüe'
Energy Crue
Why Every Energy Company Needs a Voice in Washington
Ryan Walker from Shumaker Advisors joins us to discuss how energy companies can navigate Washington politics and policy changes that directly impact their business operations and profitability.
• Pro-energy administration doesn't automatically mean better business conditions for all energy companies
• Budget reconciliation process currently threatens tax credits established under the Inflation Reduction Act
• Tariffs are being used as negotiating tools that affect energy supply chains and costs
• Companies should engage proactively with policy rather than reacting to crises
• Bipartisan engagement is essential—energy policy affects and concerns both political parties
• Government affairs support can function as a "fractional" team for companies without in-house expertise
• Energy policy has become increasingly politicized, creating volatility for long-term business planning
• Policy makers often "don't know what they don't know" about energy industry realities
If you're interested in learning more about navigating energy policy, connect with Ryan Walker on LinkedIn or visit Shoemaker Advisors to understand how federal decisions impact your business.
Thank you, welcome to a new Energy Crew podcast. I'm your host, jp Warren, and listen, we're throwing down this podcast because we had a missed flight situation happen to me this week. This week we had a crew club operator roundtable up in Fort Worth and we had one of our friends scheduled to come and visit and lead a discussion on kind of how to navigate the new administration, new energy policy. A lot of stuff going out there, and actually there is so much stuff going out there, there's so much noise, there's a lot of different moving pieces right now, not just in the energy space but kind of on the global geopolitical space. But obviously this energy crew will be talking energy.
Speaker 1:So I said, you know so, my good friend, ryan Walker, the senior vice president of federal affairs for Shoemaker, advisors out of their DC office and decision policymakers to kind of be an advocate, facilitate kind of conversations between the energy sector and kind of what's happening in the federal government. Anyway, due to weather, unforeseen circumstances, he couldn't make the table. However, this is something I want to talk to him about, this is something I want to share with everyone out there, kind of what he's seeing up there. But first let's bring Ryan up onto the stage. Ryan, how you doing, brother. You had a hell of a week, man.
Speaker 2:It's been I'm good on traveling for a while.
Speaker 1:Okay, so let's get a little context right now. So you and I have been friends for over two years or something like that. We became connected on LinkedIn. You know you saw what I'm doing, I see what you're doing. I'm down in Texas, you're up in DC, both working, you know, with energy companies and all that stuff, and I love kind of how you're exposed to you know the federal level on, you know what policies and kind of the intricate pieces on that, how it actually moves and works. And obviously you know, with the new administration, we want to get you to the table. Talk to us about your travel experience from DC to Texas and what the hell happened.
Speaker 2:Well, I was down in Houston. What did I leave? On Tuesday? And I was supposed to be there, you know, one night, had some meetings on Tuesday, was supposed to be out on Wednesday, but then, you know, a bunch of storms, I guess, came through the Dallas Fort Worth area, north of of of Houston, um, and just just obliterated the, uh, the you know air traffic, and it went from, uh, where it's just a small delay air, you know, air traffic control is going to get us.
Speaker 2:And it went to, we're on a full ground stop at Dallas, but don't worry, we're going to get you out. And then, after about three delays, they put us on the plane, put us on the tarmac, where we sat for about two hours, and they're like well, just kidding, we're going to take you back to the gate, can we get off the plane? Um. And then I was just like well, um, I've had it, I'm going to go home, um, and cause I'm not making the dinner. And then they're like well, we can't get your bag off the plane and get it on the on the plane to DC, but once you get to dc, you can call and have your bag rerouted you know, that's not gonna happen.
Speaker 2:I'm never seeing my stuff. I never see that bag again yeah. So, um, I was like, well, I gotta follow my bag. Um, so I went, uh, got into the dallas fort worth airport at 11 45 at night. Uh, after this, at this point I've been at the airport for like almost 12 hours.
Speaker 1:Well, I actually, I actually I remember you texting me. I think it was like 13, because you texted me at like 10 am. We're at the airport, slight delay, but I should be landing at you know two o'clock and next thing you know it kept getting pushed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just just awful, brutal. And then finally I was uh. And then the irony of it all is I, the next day I was like, fine, I'll just they put me on a noon flight from dallas back to dc, um, and the irony was that flight was delayed, um, uh, not by much, but by like 30, 45 minutes, um, but I was like I just can't win you really can't, you really can't.
Speaker 1:And it's kind of getting more unpredicted later. But lately I've noticed that like yeah, traveling it's just becoming more of a continuous uh, uh, shit show, if you will. It's uh, it's pretty good out there.
Speaker 1:So, hey, listen, Ryan, let's kind of uh, I want to dive kind of in the meat, the tails of this right now, because, um, I think, uh, listen, there's a lot of stuff going on right now, um, you know. So we pivoted that night at the table. I think you, I want to kind of go into kind of what you want to discuss the table, and obviously we're going to have you back, um, to do a repeat. We'll probably have you in Houston, uh, to do a rerun of what you wanted to.
Speaker 1:And what's cool about this is that policy changes, the, the, the political landscape changes. So it doesn't matter what we're talking about today, you know it's going to be a new set of challenges and potential solutions whenever you do come to the table, whether it's in a month or three months or four months, you know what I mean. So I'm excited about this. So at the table, we kind of start talking about things that are affecting, you know, kind of the industry that we see on our level, whether it's tariffs, whether it's this, whether it's that, what was, I guess, what are some things that I guess? So your whole idea was coming to the table and saying, listen, there's a new administration out there. With a new administration comes new policies or new stances or viewpoints on how people view, whether it's energy or foreign policy or things like that. So you wanted to come to the table and kind of what was your kind of context that you want to bring to the table to start the discussion about?
Speaker 2:Look, I think that we're in a unique kind of almost once in a generation period here where you have a Republican controlled House and Senate and a Republican in the White House giving you know. We refer to it just as the trifecta, but you've in the current administration that's in there. I mean, you've never had a more pro-energy president than um that I can think of. Okay, just break down the barriers as much as possible, um, and. And he wants to get more oil and gas, uh and energy kind of writ large. Um with the sections of a few which you know sources that he doesn't favor. Um just out there. He wants, he wants America to be the leader in energy, in all things energy.
Speaker 1:And so just so people out there cause, obviously listen, you're in the realm of the political space and I think I might ask a lot of stupid questions to kind of pull it back a little bit. So just to be clear, whenever you do, it's like simple economics If you have more supply it reduces the cost. So his goal is to reduce the cost of energy, to obviously stack up, but reduce the cost of energy so it helps the everyday consumers, correct? So it reduces costs, prices at the grocery market and things like that, correct?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I get the. I get the conundrum of you know you reduce the cost, but then you also probably reduce the supply of it because people aren't going to.
Speaker 1:you know, invest the CapEx to create more of it, yeah, so that's kind of an interesting thing to, I guess, kind of peel back and talk about if there is much to it. But it's like you're right, we have a pro-energy president. Right, we have a pro-energy Washington right now. However, if you start reading the tweets and all that stuff from the EFT ANONs and all that stuff, that does not necessarily mean it's good for business, though, in the energy world. So how do you balance that? How do you balance a pro-energy president with the realization of economics in the energy space?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, look, I'm not an economist by any means, but I mean I think what he's you know what he's trying to do is look, the the, the U? S is he wants to be, he wants to export more energy to the world. So I think he's what he's trying to do. Um on a larger scale, is um create demand for, for U? S energy? Um or um um create a reliance on us energy? Um. You know whether that's through. You know what he's doing with uh, russia and ukraine, or how he's trying to impact the trade imbalance with china. You know, look, again, I'm not a, I'm not an economist, I'm a yeah, but we can still be asked around.
Speaker 1:We we can BS around the water or the water cooler.
Speaker 2:But I know, but I mean, look, I know there's, there's plenty of people that you that you've talked to and had on energy crew with more economic uh experience than and knowledge that I do. So I don't want to, um, I don't want to give the false impression that I, that I understand all.
Speaker 1:No, no, no. But it is very interesting though, because at the table that he spent 13 hours to get to he never made. At the table is one of those things where it's like there's a lot of executives in the energy space that are saying is he a prolonged reduced commodity price? And we're thinking that, whether it's alliance not alliance, but supporting OPE, supporting, you know, OPEC to, you know, get prices down, all that stuff. So what does that actually mean? When it comes to something like that? How can I guess, what can energy companies do when it comes to, I guess, corresponding with decision makers, policymakers, Congress, people? Where do you see a good base for energy companies? Let's say, let's say I'm an energy company and I'm coming to you, so real quick, Shoemaker.
Speaker 2:Advisors. You want to give a brief, high level clip of what y'all do real quick? Yeah, happy to do that. Look, we're a government affairs firm, bipartisan, bicameral. We have great relationships with folks in the Trump administration. We are helping companies navigate the federal bureaucracy and, from a legislative and a regulatory side, you know, to make sure that their voice is heard, first and foremost, their stories told, but also to advocate for things that they want or to advocate against things that would ultimately hurt their business.
Speaker 2:So, and at the end of the day, if your voice isn't, if you're not, you know, I tell people all the time it's kind of cliche that look, if you're not at the table, you're on the menu. And that couldn't be more relevant right now as we're going through this budget. Uh, reconciliation process. Uh, we're talking about the ira and its tax credits. Um, there's tariffs, you know. Uh, the issue of tariffs. Those two issues are kind of taking most of the oxygen out of the room in in washington right now, but that won't last forever, that's right, it's not a thing you know.
Speaker 2:Then, what, what, what does this administration and Congress pivot to next? Well, one of the things could be a permitting reform for, for energy. So, um, there's, you know, and uh, kind of rolling back some more of the regulations that you know the previous administration put in place, as well as you know, implementing new regulations that, um, that would be more advantageous to energy companies.
Speaker 1:Do you find the majority of your customers? Do they come to you asking more what they want, or more of what can advice on what can hurt them? You know what I mean. Is it more proactive or defensive? What do you like better? What do you like better personally?
Speaker 2:active or defensive. Um, it's kind of what do you like better? What do you like better person? Um, look, I always like trying to advocate, to get things done. Um, because when you're in a defensive mode, it puts you in kind of an adversarial state. Um, because when you're um and and if you haven't done the legwork and laid the groundwork to build the relationships, uh with policymakers, their staff, um, members of the administration, you never want to come. You know, you never want to be the first to arrive at a, at a five alarm fire. Uh, when you, when you don't know the people in the neighborhood, okay, yeah, I mean, I think that makes sense because you've always said so.
Speaker 1:you led one in Denver also and it was like you have, at the end of the day, if you're not the table, you're on the menu. I think I'm going to start utilizing that for my crew club, my crew club slogan. But I like that. But it's one of those things you talked about, like going to you saying, hey, look, this is hurting us, what can we do about it? That's a lot more work and that. Or versus talking to you before you're getting hurt, before the penalties are there, or before you're kind of lost in the energy policy landscape. You don't know what to do, so you're just like, hey, I just want to be aboard. So it's more important to engage with you before to shape energy policy than it is to try to navigate poor energy policy correct.
Speaker 2:Yes, and look, I mean there's, you have opportunities and and well, let me just take a step back. Many companies um, look what oftentimes government affairs is. It's a, it's a cost center. They you know a lot of companies see it as a cost center. But what we do, what we try and tell people, is look, we're, we're either helping you save money from from bad regulations or helping you add value uh to your company and to your investors by um, opening up new, uh new possibilities for new revenue streams with fewer regulations uh and better policy policy.
Speaker 2:Um, and you know we we really believe that when with our clients, we like to become part of their team, like we yeah very frequent calls um with our with our clients and, um, you know, we want to make sure that, uh, we're communicating on a two-way basis. It's just not well. Hey, let me call my consultant in washington and you know whatever else else. No, it's, we want a regular uh flow of communication. We want to understand your business as much as we can Um, so that we can, so that we can be looking around corners uh, for for our clients, it's not just addressing the problem at hand. It's okay, that problem has been dealt with. What's around the next corner, um, and, and how do we position our position ourselves? You know, to deal with it, um, so that's kind of you know how we, how we look at the client relationship are you seeing more uh clients?
Speaker 1:I guess understand the. Okay, let me provide some context. I feel like previously it was oh, you have to deal with energy policy, right. However, I think there was a heightened, I guess, lens or focal point towards energy policy from what we've seen in Europe, from what we've seen with the previous administration and how it really does and it really can impact everyone down the line when it comes to energy. So are you seeing more of an interest when you are doing your visits to your clients, like in Houston, wherever you cover your clients? Are you seeing more of an influx of interest when it comes to talking about energy policy on your side?
Speaker 2:Oh, 100% Really. This is, you know, the administration, the Hill and even our clients and prospective clients. There's such an interest with energy policy right now, um, but I I don't think people know where to begin.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, let's talk. Let's talk about that, I think, because here's the deal, right, like I didn't know, like I don't even know, like I love energy, I don't realize how much I enjoy energy policy. After talking to people like you, you know what I mean. After talking to like I really like it. So for those that are out there that don't know where they can begin with energy policy because, dude, it is a big ball of spaghetti that you can't even I don't know what that makes all the spaghetti, but you know what I mean it's just a huge mess. Where can people start? I mean, obviously you need to start from a macro lens. Look at, this is my business. Okay, let's say I'm a pipe producer, you know a cell casing, whatever. So what policies would affect this? Well, tariffs, steel imports, supply chain. So I guess, where can people start diving into stuff that affects them and then pull back on stuff that may affect the industry? Where do you start?
Speaker 2:Look, I think you start by just being aware of the environment and the political environment and the policy environment.
Speaker 1:Well, how can people do?
Speaker 2:that reading the news. I mean it's very you know making sure you're reading your, your industry news. Uh, you're reading news that comes out of washington. I mean there's plenty of um news sources. You know whether it's from politico axios, um, uh, shoemaker newsletter, axios Shoemaker Newsletter stuff like that Stuff that we put out in news.
Speaker 2:You know there's all kinds of stuff, but then I mean that gets you in awareness. But then the deal with it is, and most companies you're, you know, small to midsize companies, unless they're a big company they don't have an in-house government affairs operation, right? They don't have an in-house government affairs operation, right? So they, you know they talk to people like Shoemaker Advisors, like us. You know who it's there. I tell people like look, it's your.
Speaker 2:You spent your life understanding how to run a business, to understand your industry, to know where your customers are and how to meet them where they're at. We've spent ours understanding how the government works, how to interact with it. You know, I tell people it's the people, the policy, the politics, um, that in the process, uh, how we, you know we understand all that. We understand how to, how to engage on our client's behalf and to get, um, the results that they need. Um, it's putting, you know, it's it's getting in front of your member of Congress, getting in front of your Senator. That could be at the state level or at the federal level, depending upon what issues are impacting.
Speaker 2:So I think there's a greater need for companies to get engaged and people say, oh, look, it's so expensive to hire a lobbyist. You know, these guys are Well, of course. Yeah, yeah, it's not. I mean, look, I mean there are some firms out there that will charge you an arm and a leg and they can get it. It's like you know any other. But look we, we, we're a smaller firm, we, we tell people look, if you hire us, you get us. You know, we're not going to pass the work down to a junior member of our staff and, uh, we like to become members of your team, of the client's team. Um, you know, and there's so much going on in the energy space right now, um, so it's almost like, uh, it's too much information.
Speaker 1:Well, that's, that's a good point. So let's, let's. I want to. I want to dive into kind of what's going on in the energy space real quick. But going back to your point, I want to make this very, very clear so, at our crew club tables, I think it's extremely important to be part of the conversations that are shaping the industry. You know what I mean. I think it's very important to have these connections before you need them, to be proactive about no-transcript, if you want to survive in this new market, if you want to actually find opportunities to have initiative and to either number one, join the table, join the discussions that are are affecting energy policy. Right, like, don't wait for your, don't wait for your, uh, don't wait for your industry to fix it, because at that point, just waiting on other people and you don't, everyone might be waiting on other people. Get involved today.
Speaker 2:You're absolutely right. I mean, look, there's a, there's a, there's a place and the kind of advocacy market for trade associations. They serve a purpose. Every company that can should be engaging on their own to make sure that their voice, their message, their concerns and their desires are known to their elected representatives. Look, we have the audience right now that wants to hear those messages from the energy industry. With Secretary Wright, the president, and you have a small number of executives that understand the need to advocate for their own. Look, I recently had a conversation with Mike Howard, CEO of Howard Energy Partners.
Speaker 1:That dude is impressive as hell. He is the next chris wright in my book. He's down earth man. We had him at that dinner of the shoemaker dinner, uh, last year and he was blown away just down earth sharp personable.
Speaker 2:I like that, just a just a good dude. And um, he is, you know, he's all for, you know, doing the advocacy, the advocacy work. He gets it and I think he's going to make he himself will make an impact.
Speaker 1:Well, good, so let's turn into that. Let's turn into kind of what is happening in the energy space, Like what are some of the hot things that I think companies so you talked about threats and you talked about opportunities like they like either policy that might, you know, be like my hurt companies, or policies that might help companies. What are you seeing out there when it comes to kind of like um, and this new administration, this new market that companies be aware of, first on the threat side, then second off, maybe on the opportunity side that they may want, and obviously, look, we don't, let's not get too far into the policies and all that stuff, because you know people can contact you if they want to know more. But let's talk, let's talk high level. What are you seeing out there that companies probably need to be aware about, to have developed strategy that could, because it could harm them?
Speaker 2:Yeah, look, the first and foremost thing right now is budget reconciliation. That is so let me let me just digress. You give a one-on-one here. So every you know Congress is supposed to pass a budget, which they've, they've done, and then they can then do what they call budget reconciliation.
Speaker 2:Sorry, if that's my dog, that's my cat and that budget reconciliation is a privileged vehicle in the legislature. Where it doesn't, it's not. It can't be filibustered in the Senate. They only need 51 votes in the legislature. Where it can't be filibustered in the Senate, they only need 51 votes in the Senate to pass it a simple majority in the House. So you then can put a lot of different things into that legislative vehicle. As long as there's a budgetary impact, it has to pass in the Senate what they call the Byrd Rule, and that requires anything put in that bill to have an impact on that 10-year budget window, whether raising revenue or cutting costs. You can't legislate pure policy on it.
Speaker 2:But one of the things in the energy world that they're trying to do right now that's up for discussion is when the previous administration uh passed the inflation reduction act, the IRA, um, there was a lot of different tax credits in there for carbon capture, uh origin, solar, et cetera. Um, and they're talking about now. To you know, in those, in those instructions to the committees, many committees were said you have to cut x amount of money from from the budget. You have to find these savings. Well, to create some of these savings, they're looking at these ira tax credits and either um increasing the or decreasing the time when they will be phased out. They'll be um getting rid of their transferability, um they will, you know, or just eliminating them altogether. So those will have impacts on the uh, on the energy industry. Now, some like that in the energy industry, some don't. I mean it just depends kind of how your business is or where your free market principles are. But those decisions will impact different companies in different ways.
Speaker 1:Right, exactly, and so I guess, shoemaker, y'all are good at coming in and kind of forecasting how that can impact your business.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean from a, from a policy standpoint.
Speaker 1:Yeah, from a policy standpoint, absolutely.
Speaker 2:But you know we can kind of, you know, talk to members of Congress and staff about you know, making sure that if it, you know if they care about those, if they, if they're going to negatively impact their business, you know we're happy to talk to members of Congress on that company's behalf or if they're you know, if they like them, we're happy to. You know members of Congress always love support for their policies. So you know, if they want, to.
Speaker 1:So what could that do? So, yeah, I guess I guess grand scheme of things, like if I'm sitting here and I'm the and you're talking to, you know members of Congress about this and that, what, what can that do? These conversations with with with members of Congress, like what? What is it just like lip service or is it actually? You get the ball rolling and move the needle?
Speaker 2:No, it actually, I think many ways it gets the ball rolling and moves the needle because, look, they care about companies in their district, companies in their state, you know, because the people who work at these companies are their constituents, are the people who vote for them and, you know, nobody wants their constituencies to be negatively impacted through job losses or companies, you know, going overseas or anything like that.
Speaker 2:So, but I think the biggest impact is they. Sometimes members of Congress and staff don't know what they don't know, and this is, you know and look, a member of Congress and a congressional staffer, or even you know, someone at the administration. Their day is scheduled in 15-minute meeting increments, right? So they're getting bombarded by different issues constantly, all day, and it's our job here in Washington, as a representative of the company, to stay in front of them on a frequent basis, to continue to remind them and educate them about what's going on with the company and their needs, because the company themselves, they're busy running the company, they're busy producing the products, they're busy talking to customers things that, um, you know they don't may not necessarily have time for.
Speaker 1:Well, also, also, I think, um, I think another side of that too is just the realities of energy. So you have to think about this whether you know, you have your own company, you've been in this industry for 20 years or whatever. That is like. You're in this industry, you're in this echo chamber, right? Like I know what's about energy, I know the realities of energy, I know this and all that stuff. But you need to put yourself in the shoes of the Congress people, of the people that don't live or that aren't in your echo chamber, right.
Speaker 1:So I'm thinking about before I joined this industry, I had no idea. I would think, oh yeah, $50 oil, the industry must love that because it makes everything cheap. So there's a disconnect when it comes to energy realities and how energy actually works and kind of a public perception. So I think you being in front of people to talk about the energy industry, how it's actually being impacted because at the end of the day, it's exposure, you're right. You don't know what you don't know. And if you're not representing companies, you're right. They just want to understand like, okay, well, it's probably good for the industry when it could be detrimental. So, again, I think educating people about industries is extremely important as well, and I think that I'm just kind of echoing what you're saying.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, you're absolutely right, and I mean not just on the reconciliation, but, you know, have an interest or concern about it's. It's educating, um, you know, members of the, members of the administration, about what the impact of their decisions are.
Speaker 2:Um and you know that I mean that may not change this white house's um opinion or stance, and you know that's that's a different conversation. But, um, it's making sure that they know. Um, you know we had a, we had a, we had a client that um had an issue. We, they, they read a draft executive order, um, and they were concerned that, you know, a specific piece of it wasn't made clear enough in any, any potential legal proceedings over it. It could be interpreted in a way that would legal proceedings over it. It could be interpreted in a way that would negatively impact um, their, their company. So we had, we had a conversation, uh, with uh someone in the administration and, um, they were like no, no, no, this is not the intent of it. Um, and they're like, okay, good to hear Now these, these, you know, the addition of these words would make it more clear.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 1:And help us sleep better at night, but without them knowing. You're right, they don't know what they don't know. Yeah, so let's talk about terrorists real quick. I mean, that's been a hot topic around the table and what I'm gathering is that no one really knows. I'm gathering some people are being preemptive about it, right, some people are not. So let me ask you a question. You're a crystal ball, obviously. Listen, people will listen to this in probably 2027. It'll be different, but what do you see right now, I guess, when it comes to't know? But let's pretend.
Speaker 2:Yeah, look, and I think there's two things. One, he's, you know the president's trying to change the global economic paradigm as much as he can, and you know he's really trying to help the United States in that decision making and to achieve that goal. I think he's using tariffs to a certain extent as a negotiating tool, right, yes, so I just I think that and people need to, I mean, this isn't something that's going away quickly. You know, the president has said, look, china takes a 100-year multi-generational view rather than on a quarterly basis, and look, he doesn't need to get reelected again and is comfortable doing so that he can change as much as possible the course of, kind of the geopolitical and geoeconomic situation.
Speaker 1:With a pro-energy president and again, I think this is one of those things where it might be a misconception right now. So when do you see people being more active when it comes to dealing with energy policy analysis and it's a pro-energy president or not pro-energy president and when should they get involved?
Speaker 2:I think they should get involved right now. Yes, and stay involved, because whether it's a pro-energy president or an anti-energy president, if you will, there are going to be things to engage on, whether it's regulation that helps the industry or is detrimental to the industry. So, but I think people generally come to the table when there's a um, a fire to put out Right, right, and by then, by then I feel like it's always too late. Sometimes it is. It certainly makes it more. It makes it more difficult.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, I feel like when it comes to something like this, because it's such a slow moving ship like you, really do have to get involved on the well, it's not just on the policy side, but it's on the political side as well.
Speaker 2:Explain the difference. And so the policy. It's working with Congress. It's working with the administration. It's working with legislators and political appointees to change policy to, whether from an offensive or a defensive. On the political side, it's engaging to get the right people elected, who are pro-energy, who are pro-business. You know organizations like Energy Impact.
Speaker 1:Oh, man, I got my hat in my closet.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're an organization dedicated to helping pro-energy candidates get elected to office. Yeah, and it's getting involved, whether it's on a personal level or, you know, through a corporate political action committee or supporting organizations like Energy Impact that you know that help get the right types of candidates in there who are amenable to the energy industry and its goals.
Speaker 1:So I guess one of those things too, I think in this day and age, I mean, how necessary is it to get involved when it comes to energy policy? I mean, can you just operate? Obviously you can operate, you know, underneath the radar, you know kind of just responding to energy policy. But I mean, is I feel like and this might be a, not even a plug, but I feel like I feel like companies need to get involved right now because, unfortunately, energy has been politicized. You know what I mean. So I feel like companies need that needs to be part of your business strategy, whether it's marketing, exposure policy, right, right, yeah, I mean that's a necessary wheel it is.
Speaker 2:I mean, look, it's those four Ps for companies and we help them understand that. The policy, you know what is the policy? How is it going to impact your company? The people who are the right people to talk to in government, uh, about, about the policy, uh, understanding the process which that policy will go through? Uh, and the politics, what's the political, uh, you know, undercurrent that is driving the policy? Uh, because, at the end of the day, um, most everything is political, right and and and that's, I don't know.
Speaker 2:As I said that I was like, uh, that makes it sound so like smarmy, but it's, it's not, it's just the reality that you know, since we've been a country, there have been political decisions made. Um, and you know not, not that everything is political, but a lot of things are driven by politics Because ultimately, look, you have the Republican trifecta in Washington right now, the Democrats in the party in the minority are trying to get back into power and they're going to leverage politics to do that. The next inhabitant of the White House may not be pro-energy inhabitant of the white house, uh, may not be pro energy. Um, so companies have to understand that while they, like you know, a short or a steady rise in their business year over year? Um, you know, every two, every four, every six years. Um, you know, politics can ride like a roller coaster.
Speaker 1:So you need to, you need to, you need to, you need to, you need to be prepared for those hills and valleys that really is the most unfortunate part, though, because I think that's stalling a lot of the investment in this industry, because there it has become so politicized, because it fluctuates every you know, four years, quarterly, you know. So it's very difficult right now for domestic energy because it's not a stable energy industry to invest in, it's not a stable industry to do business in right now, because the tide switched so often so quick and it's just it's. It's kind of leaves people kind of like helpless a little bit yeah, look, I mean it's, it's.
Speaker 2:It has been politicized. It will continue to be politicized for, you know, as long as I can think of. But it's not as easy as just sticking a straw in the ground and pulling up crude, which many people think that, oh hey, people can just go out and drill a well and produce more oil and, you know, make America the greatest energy exporter in the world. Well, there's a lot that goes into that, yeah, and companies typically plan, you know, as you know is, you know 10 plus year timelines, you know investment timelines and now you know the market's calling for more capital discipline. So there's all of these factors that weigh into this, and I think that's why it's important to add that arrow to your quiver as a company, to be able to engage policymakers over the life of a company rather than pulling the fire alarms and dealing with the hills and the valleys.
Speaker 1:So y'all are kind of like a fractural CFO. Y'all are kind of like a third-party arm for companies that don't have government affairs or that need to stay on top of the energy policy. So, at the end of the day, y'all are a fractural. What am I thinking? A fracture? Yeah, you know what I'm talking about. What Fractional, thank you. I don't know why, dude, it's been a long wait for me too, buddy. All right, fractional. Y'all are the fractional kind of government affairs arm of companies if they need it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we are. And or if they're big enough and they have their own government affairs teams, oftentimes we support their government affairs yeah.
Speaker 1:I can see that I'm saying more of companies that are like, because I talk to a lot of people and you're right, Obviously we know people have big companies that have these arms and all that stuff, but there's a lot of companies out there, man, that don't. There's a lot of companies out there that are just kind of like they're going by the sway in the current, you know. So I think, engaging in something like this to at least have that knowledge and again, it could be on any level that people want you know, like whether it's, you know, once a week check in, daily check ins or whatever I think it's important to get out there and to have these conversations.
Speaker 2:It is, and I can't stress enough it's important to have these conversations on a bipartisan basis. You can't just be talking to Republicans, no, because there are Democrats out there that are pro energy. Not everybody, you know, wants to keep it in the ground.
Speaker 1:This is not pro energy, but there's also I mean people that Democrats, republicans, doesn't matter. There's also people out there that just don't understand energy realities.
Speaker 2:Correct, correct, yeah, yeah. And even if you're not going to agree with each other, it's still worthwhile, because you're creating an awareness that may not have been there previously.
Speaker 1:Exactly, Exactly, and you know you see poor energy policy play out not just in consumers' wallets but you also see it when it comes to, I guess, the health of countries. I mean, you're looking at Germany, you know closing down nuclear and all that stuff, firing up coal because they had this green push, and you know you have a first world country, like putting on jackets in the middle of winter in the universities because they couldn't turn on, because they have no natural gas to heat up the buildings. So poor energy policy does affect everybody.
Speaker 2:I don't care if republican, independent democrat, poor energy policy sucks for everyone yeah, 100, it does, and I think that's the title of the podcast, because it ultimately, whether it you know it's, it's about pulling the resources out of the ground, or whether it's their constituents or your friends and family going to the pump to fill up their car or charge their car. Yep, um, you know there's that energy has to have come from somewhere and there has to have been a, there had to have been a policy to facilitate or inhibit that energy.
Speaker 1:Right, Right, what else you got for us? We gotta be. We're wrapping this up right now, coming on minute 41. What else you got for us out there? Obviously, listen everyone. If anyone wants to connect with Ryan Walker, you can find them on LinkedIn. Shoemaker advisors. That's S-C-H-U-M-A-K-E-R advisors.
Speaker 2:And he's at the DC office office, but I think you're founded in ohio. Yeah, so we're, uh, we're part of a larger law firm, shoemaker lupin kendrick. It's a hundred year old law firm that's headquartered in ohio, um, but we have, we have offices, you know, in, in multiple states yeah, listen, you come to texas a lot, you go.
Speaker 1:You actually travel the country a lot. But also I know a lot of people they visit DC. So if you're in DC, give Ryan a call, grab a cup of coffee with him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a hundred percent Would love to. I mean, I'll talk to anybody.
Speaker 1:I know, I know you. You're talking to me, so you're talking to anyone.
Speaker 2:So we're, you know, I'm I'm happy to grab coffee, have a call with anybody who may be interested and think that they can, you know, have some impact by engaging with policy makers, you know. But there's, like I said, the reconciliation, and the tariffs are what's kind of taking the oxygen out of the room right now in Washington, but you know they'll pivot to permitting Something else.
Speaker 1:And that's the thing too. Just because this stuff's important right now, you're right. After this, it's going to be something else, that's going to be front and center.
Speaker 2:Yeah, something else to drive the news cycle, something else to drive the politics. So it's never a dull day in Washington, that's for sure, you know. The only time I jokingly say is, you know, in August, when they go for their recess, their district work period, for that four or five weeks, I'm like, oh, the Republic is safe because they're out of town. But it's, all things considered, you know many members, many, many members of Congress that I know the staff they're, they're good people, they want to help their constituents, their businesses in this country. So it's, you know, not everybody has an angle or an agenda. They just want to, they want to be helpful. They got into an elected office because they want to help make a change, you know, have a positive impact, and but yet they can't know everything. So being in front of them, talking to them, engaging with them, uh, is is important 100%.
Speaker 1:What else you got, Ryan? What were the last minute thoughts you have? I think that was a great way to kind of wrap it up. If there's something that I'm not asking or not bringing up, or or maybe something that you're excited about coming up, uh, for you and your team that are up there, Um, I met, uh, uh, we had a dinner, um, uh, a year and a half ago or something like that, with Shoemaker advisors and I met, I think, three or four of the the your group up there you work with, uh, Republicans and Democrats, and it was really it was a really fun team to talk to, very impressive. It was a really fun team to talk to, very impressive, very sharp group of people that you work with. Um, so, yeah, so I think, uh, that's my plug towards y'all. I've really enjoyed talking y'all and and I look forward, obviously, when we do a DC trip, I look forward to tagging up with y'all. But what am I not asking? What? What's going on in your world that you're excited about.
Speaker 2:I'm excited because there's so much going on right now that this administration's not going to slow down. They've got four years and they're going to use every minute of that four years to try and make the change that they want to see in this country and globally. So I'm excited because that allows me to be able to engage on a frequent basis on behalf of our clients and to get to know whether it's energy policy or healthcare or tax or trade, or whether know the reauthorization of of PHMSA, um, you know it is. It's exciting because I get to learn something, I get to do something and it's just a lot of fun.
Speaker 2:And we, you know, we, we, we work a lot with our support, the Congressional Sportsman's Foundation, um, which is a great organization, uh, largest bipartisan, uh caucus in in Congress. And you know, I don't, I don't golf, I'm not a golfer, but I I hunt and fish Uh, so getting to engage with that group and going out with members of Congress and staff and shooting clays and um going to their auctions and their dinners and things like that, it's uh, it's great. I'm excited about those events that are coming up. Uh, we have an event later this month with uh, uh, members of Congress and staff, we're going to go out. You know, the call it the congressional clays competition.
Speaker 1:Um, that's gotta be so fun to just go to these, uh, and again people out there there listening like you can get involved in this too. Just reach out to ryan, he'll give you. He'll give you the access, he'll give you the access to all this stuff.
Speaker 2:But it sounds so cool going to these type of things up and uh, especially up in dc it's, it's so much fun and because you get, you know, you realize that members of congress they're not just people you see on tv, they're real people too, with families and concerns and dreams. And you get to, you get to interact with him on a, on a real kind of genuine level. Um, when most people see Washington is just transactional, yeah, um, you know, you get to develop some good, good friendships, uh, with people. So I'm excited about those events coming up with the congressional sports and foundation and look, I mean it's you make advisors and look, I mean at Shoemaker Advisors.
Speaker 2:I'm excited about our future. We're growing. We're probably going to be adding at least one more team member here pretty soon. So we'll Dining, our growth will continue and we're, I guess, a smaller, younger firm not age of people, but just age of the firm. And you know there's lots of competition here for the business. But look, we think that we offer a unique perspective and unique services to our clients. So I'm excited about our growth.
Speaker 1:And plus also, y'all are fun to work with and talk to. So that's also added man. That might be a differentiation right there. It's the all in a bunch of squares up there. Y'all are good, smart, sharp team. I really liked that and I'm excited about the new addition to your team. So hats off to that. That's legit, thank you. So out there, ryan. Thank you First off, man. I apologize about your trip to Texas, man.
Speaker 2:That's okay.
Speaker 1:We got to have a round two Actually, it'd be a round three for you running the table at a crew club event. Let's do it during August, during the recess. Get you down here and lead another table of what's changing by then. Tariffs would be another conversation. By then a supply chain China there'll be different conversations, but there's conversations that we need to know as an industry because it impacts us all. So reach out to Ryan, connect with them on LinkedIn. Check out Shoemaker advisors Ryan. Thank you so much for being on, brother. You have a good weekend.
Speaker 1:And I guess let's talk soon, buddy. All right, brother, Good to see you All right y'all. Thanks for tuning in. We'll talk to everyone later on. Energy Crew. Thank you.