Energy Crue
Welcome to 'Energy Crüe', the podcast that dives deep into the heart of industry innovation, entrepreneurship, and personal growth. I'm your host, JP Warren, and each episode, we embark on a journey to uncover the passions and motivations that fuel industry leaders. We're not just talking business here; we're exploring the personal drives, the triumphs, and the challenges that shape today's pioneers. Alongside these inspiring conversations, I'll be sharing my own story - the battles with imposter syndrome, the pivotal mindset shifts, and the lessons learned throughout my entrepreneurial voyage. As a certified coach, my goal is to empower you, our listeners, to break free from the barriers holding you back. Join me as we navigate both the professional and personal landscapes, learning and growing together with 'Energy Crüe'
Energy Crue
The Battle for California's Energy Future with Mike Umbro
Mike Umbro, founder of Californians for Energy and Science, reveals how California's energy policies are creating economic hardship while potentially increasing global emissions through energy imports. We discuss the urgent crisis facing the state as refinery closures threaten to push gas prices toward $8.50 per gallon.
• California currently imports 75% of its oil from foreign sources compared to just 5% historically
• Two refineries closing in the next year will remove 19% of California's remaining refining capacity
• California's gas prices are the highest in the continental US and electricity rates are triple those in Texas
• Emissions from imports and shipping aren't counted in state carbon calculations, creating false impressions of progress
• 20% of California ratepayers are currently behind on their utility bills due to high energy costs
• California's energy policies affect neighboring states like Arizona and Nevada that depend on its refineries
• The industry has largely stopped applying for new drilling permits due to regulatory blockades
• Environmental policies should focus on "reduce, reuse, recycle" rather than eliminating local production
• Recent committee hearings suggest Sacramento officials are beginning to question current approaches
Check out Californians for Energy and Science at energyandscience.com to learn more about these issues and join our movement for sensible energy policy.
And we're recording. Mike, how are you doing, buddy? You like how that just jumped right in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sneak attack. I'm always down for a sneak attack. What's up, jp?
Speaker 1:You really are always down for a sneak attack dude. So it's just like you know, I think you know having a podcast. You know, and that's the thing too Listen, I know we're recording Energy Crew. You know the number one podcast out there. Obviously you know, but like I haven't been consistent with it. I haven't this because there is a lot of back end work, but I think it's so crucial this day and age to have a podcast, whether people listen to the entire episode or you just kind of clip it and people get kind of content from that episode or you just kind of clip it and people get kind of content from that.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, the content is what matters most and getting short content out through long conversations, I think, is the best way to do it.
Speaker 1:So I love it and I and I'm a pioneer in the space jp war well, I think that's so crucial to you too, because kind of exactly what you're doing. So I'm seeing a lot more content come out from the californians for energy and science stuff. You know what I mean. So you know, before, uh, mike umbro, you know the founder of californians for energy and science, and also he's an operator out in you know california fighting the uphill battle with on skates on ice, uphill sliding back. But it has to be done.
Speaker 1:And I remember when you and I first connected man, your, your content was you just flipped that phone, just kind of start talking about, like the realities of you know the ship, you know all these diesel, dirty diesel shipping containers you know off of you know San Diego and it's like, oh, let's. You know, hey, let's save them, let's save the planet, let's import all this dirty diesel, as long as not we're drilling in our backyard. That really kind of spurned this but kind of spurn this. But I think from that I've seen a lot of great content from um, uh, california for energy and science and what's that done? And I'm about to ask you I'm kind of leading up to this, but like what I've seen that do, actually let me ask you something what have.
Speaker 1:What have you seen? The benefits of, uh, creating content around the top topics that are so close to your heart, to get this information out there, the education out there? Like I mean, is it opening up doors, places? Are you getting invited to go to other podcasts? I've seen you hit so many different like circuits, like you're kind of like you're like Tom Cruise after mission impossible, going on those tours, like jumping in interview and all that stuff. So what have you seen and kind of like what's been some kind of feedback from all the content that y'all have been kind of creating?
Speaker 2:It's been a slow build to this point. So we started as an organization in 2022 saying that we wanted to educate on energy, economics and the environment. We need to get to the people, we need to get to students and those Now backing up.
Speaker 1:For those that don't know, give me the why behind all this stuff. Why do you feel you have to do all this stuff? Give us the why. Like it's kind of like it's in the name Californians.
Speaker 2:So right away everybody kind of understands Californians that are trying to develop energy projects and trying to build anything in California. Um are up against tough regulatory standards and um and really now a blockade on regulatory and permitting pathways. So now there's not only a high bar of environmental standards but when we meet and exceed those standards we still cannot get permits. So a literal blockade of permitting that Sacramento has just recently you know we can talk about this later has just recently, this week, signaled reversal, but anyway. So you asked why we started? Because we live in California and we're trying to develop energy in California and our mission most importantly is to try to educate the youth on how our energy systems work in California and how that impacts their future careers and their future ability to afford life in California.
Speaker 1:Man, I'll tell you one thing, sitting on the sidelines, obviously I love your stuff, I support what you do. But, man, I mean you know someone that's just hearing this and all that stuff I would imagine walking into rooms of youth, especially in California, obviously, with all the propaganda, with everything that's kind of getting thrown out there and listen, you and I are both energy maximists. We understand pros and cons of all energy sources, right, um, we're not, you know, we're not blind to it. I would imagine walking into rooms of, like you know, california youths talk about, hey, here's the pro, you know, here's the pros of fossil fuels. I can only imagine you're kind of getting met with like daggers being thrown at you, kind of uh on your back, running out the door. What's the experience been like going into and where have you gone? You kind of like you berkeley right like where have you?
Speaker 2:gone we are um. Our active chapter is in berkeley. We've got a group of students there, uh, environmental students, engineering students, folks that care about the environment, that are talking about this on campus regularly. We've lectured there, we've lect. Go to these universities. These kids are hardworking kids.
Speaker 2:I know there's a lot of politics around liberal universities these days, but forget all that. Forget all that for a minute. These are very, very driven young individuals that got into the toughest schools to get into in the country, individuals that got into the toughest schools to get into in the country. So when you realize the opportunity is not to change policy of the administration, it's to meet those young minds where they're at at school and to say hey, when you leave this amazing institution, where are you going to be a chemical engineer, an environmental engineer? Who is going to actually employ you? Because right now your current career option is I can go work for the state government in Sacramento or maybe the federal government in some of these roles, but if you're not permitting energy projects, they're young builders.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying. So they want to build. It's a very easy message. So when you explain to them hey, the opportunities require permits for you and everybody, for a generation of up and coming workers. It's kind of a no brainer. And then you present the environmental stuff which you and I have talked about a ton.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, if you get it here versus there, and we that.
Speaker 2:I think everybody understands that at this point.
Speaker 1:So yeah, and then the environmental stuff that pretty much you know Mike touched on. We've discussed this many times. We had a podcast together which I'm still I'm not, I'm not afraid to bring that back. You know it's pretty much. The reality is this you know california is sitting on this. You know natural resources underneath the ground, however, through um, you know, energy, poor, energy, pulse poor. You know I'm. You know I don't think I'm a headphone guy, bro, I don't think my headphone guy that's all right, I'm just.
Speaker 2:I need the headphones on because I get it I get. I used to be a headphone guy yeah, no worries your ears are probably sweaty.
Speaker 1:I mean, I'm going to lie, it does get warm in here. You don't look sweaty ears. Well, you and I have talked about this many, many times, multiple times, and the point is this you know it's y'all operate the US operates such in a safe, environmentally responsible manner, and the fact is you know people are cheering themselves for you know stopping. You know producing hydrocarbons in California. However, that doesn't stop the fact that people need calories to live. People need hydrocarbons to live. So what happens? You start importing it from different countries like Iraq and countries that do seven times as much pollutants in a year than California does in seven years, probably 10 to 20 times.
Speaker 1:Sorry, I'm laughing, you don't correct, Don't?
Speaker 2:undersell it. I thought it was seven times of.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh. I'm not trying to undersell, but you shouldn't also correct me, man. This is my podcast. You should be like JP, you're exactly right.
Speaker 1:No, so anyway, the point is this like we talked about this the energy realities versus the energy expectations and you've done such a good job of like kind of bringing that together and just and what I love about this and this is kind of something that goes out to a lot of people out there that if you're listening to this, it's like just because you have a message, you know you, just you, I, you're right, you you started 2022, 2025. Now, man, you've been repeating the exact same message over and over and over, and at times I get so tiring, but to see the momentum and see the progress you've made and obviously we're not there where we want to be but, man, it really is like it's a testament. It's a testament. So I think what you're doing and highlighting these environmental hypocrisies frankly they're hypocrisies. I think it's really kind of uh, it's very important. It's kind of cool what you're doing, dude, and you're getting a lot of cool exposure too, man.
Speaker 2:I'm, I'm, I'm excited to spread, you know, just spread the message, to talk to people, to share what it's like to try to permit an energy project in California, to share what it's like having those conversations with policymakers or with students or whoever. I like the full spectrum and just kind of meet everybody across career paths, which is what you are so excellent at focusing on and what you're doing with teaching people just in general, life skills, sales skills, industry skills, bringing the right people in the room. That's what I try to do in this effort is just put the right people in the room. That's what I try to do in this effort is just put the right people in the room. That's what you have to do. And have the conversations and present the opportunities for the next project or the next conversation.
Speaker 1:And that's the thing for me. It's like you know, like it's not just I put sales on it because you know slow hanging fruit sales, but at the end of the day, it really is communication. How are you communicating to the target audience? How are you communicating to the Berkeley students so that they can understand it from their lens, versus like, oh, listen to me, it's important to me, listen to my lens. So it's not just a sales again, it's more like how do we engage and communicate with each other, with your team, with your manager, with your community, about what you do and what you're trying to do, what value you bring?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's it really I was going to say exactly it's super important because it's best to have a thousand other voices singing the same song with you than just an individual leading a charge or you know, trying to do something on your own, just whatever you're trying to do as a team. So, yeah, it's amazing to now see students on campuses spreading that message and students at our industry events that we invited them to. We just did an event at the California Insider Studios in Irvine, California. It was filmed professional studio. We had professors from USC, from UC Berkeley, we had students from Berkeley, we had professionals in the audience. We had the former supervisor of oil and gas of the state. We had people that were there in that room watching what we're bringing and hearing the message that we're bringing, and then we were able to, you know, have the benefit of having California Insiders produce that and then put it out into the.
Speaker 1:It's just it's fascinating because the message you have obviously is there. There's a lot of different groups out there that have you know, messages, whatever their interests are, but, like man, it's so interesting, like, yeah, you're, you're, you're, you're going, you're, you know you're touching the, you know the students, you know, not like that you're, you know you're touching the universities, right, you're getting, like you're, you're on, like DC you're talking to, like you know, and it's not one of those things you're like, hey, like like it's just it's awesome to see just kind of like you, just kind of just being yourself. Continue the, the, the message and kind of like. And so talk to me about some of the kind of the facets you're kind of seeing, like you kind of like leak into whether it's like you know, california insider was the politician to talk. Give me some kind of cool experiences.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, it is it's exactly that it's touches. It's repetition. Whether it's exactly that it's touches, it's repetition. Whether it's sports and you're trying to throw a football or you know. Whether it's you know something in your professional career, it's just the repetition of setting meetings and discussing the message and working through different audiences that are interested in the message. And right now, what's benefiting us the most is actually what's costing californians the most, which is the price of gasoline. And so it's. It's a, it's a major driver for any campaign and we're going to have a gubernatorial primaries here coming up and then a new governor, uh, shortly thereafter. So gasoline prices in the country. So those are kinds of the interesting.
Speaker 2:One of the more interesting recent stories has been a professor. Michael Michet put out a gasoline report at a USC, the Marshall School of Business. He puts out this report that says we're going to have $8.50 when these two refineries close. So I said, okay, boom, professor, here's our organization, Californians for Energy and Science. Hopefully we'll come lecture on his campus now that we know each other. But I said, hey, we're putting on this event at California Insider. Would you come talk? He says yes, and in the interim of saying yes to come and do that, recording.
Speaker 2:A week and a half ago, or two weeks ago, the governor started calling him out specifically and his study out in the news Michael Miche saying he was wrong and literally calling out the academics at this point from Sacramento by the governor. And so I was just like. This is amazing, because what more could you want than to have the person that's authored a 200-page in-depth economic study on the crisis of California's refining system, and then the governor's? You know he's wrong, yeah, he's wrong, and now it's now. We're about to find out what happens. So that's the most interesting thing to answer. Your question is like just what's rolling out in front of us.
Speaker 1:Let me ask you, us Real man. Let me ask you a question. Man, like I mean, we're in Texas, obviously, you know you're in California, is I mean the gas thing is just obviously it seems like it's a constant, you know state of conversation. Is the blame game kind of getting fed up with? Uh, residents there Are they seeing like hey, it's not the refiners, it's the taxes, like, it's these policies, like, are they noticing that? Like I mean, are the conversations happening like that?
Speaker 2:The boomerang, yes, and it's unfolding because of the Palisades fire and nobody can get permits to rebuild there. It's unfolding because of the homeless crisis and homeless in every major city. It's unfolding because of the immigration crisis and people washing up on pontoon boats for Mexico up and down Southern California. It's unfolding because all of the far left ideologies are kind of colliding with now our world, which is energy, and it all relates to government and Sacramento controlling everything, and the 40 million people, the largest state in the country by population and a major player in anything policy, particularly the environment. So now we're seeing that just bubble up on a national scale, with President Trump and Republicans shooting down the EV mandate by 2035. They killed that, thank God. Uh, saving California.
Speaker 1:Wait, so they, they. So they got rid of that, so do you I would. I would say that back when I first covering that that was. I think that was up to us. We should get credit.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. California gets special waivers because of its status as the fourth largest economy in the world35 mandate of 100% electric vehicle sales. That was the ultimate mandate. We're at like 20% EV sales today in California and it's actually been declining the past two. A lot it's peaked. It's 20%, though. 20% it's still a lot though, but the numbers bumped it up to needing 35% next year and 50% the following year. So the hurdles that we were about to hit were about to bankrupt all sorts of car dealers because the metrics they would be limited in the amount of ICE vehicles they could sell unless they sold a certain amount of EVs. So the metrics were about to effectively double over the next two years for the requirements. So it wasn't necessarily a fight for 2035. That was a fight for the next two years and severely impacting. That the people of California will not know anymore, at least for the time being, because President Trump took it away, which is again thank God that he did that, because life would have been that much more expensive in California.
Speaker 1:God. So let me ask you a question. So, like, with everything going on, I think you and I we were hot and heavy in the uh, you know, at our you know uh energy fact checks podcast and that was like right in the middle of, like you know, just horrible decisions being made, horrible uh policy, you know, ideas being thrown out and all that stuff. You know, you and I, we both got busy, you know we both got busy building our you know ecosystems and all that Our empires, yeah, our empires.
Speaker 1:So my question for you is, sitting here right now, july 1st, right now it's probably, you know, 150 degrees here in Houston, it's probably 72 degrees there in California where you're at yeah, it is. How are you stop, um, mike, I guess my question is like, how are you feeling right now about kind of the general state of things? I mean, is it kind of like, is it still kind of inspiring to you? Is it kind of like, is it such a mess of, though he said, she said type of like environment when it comes to energy policy in california? How are you feeling about kind of the just overall like trends? I feel?
Speaker 2:optimistic that things will change. But there's really nothing to feel good about because everybody is suffering with this. Four dollars and 60 cent gasoline as an average in the state of california is breaking people. You know, people that have to commute to work and people that have to buy groceries, which obviously the price impacts. All of it impacts the people in California, and so inflation is real for people. So I'm worried about you know, we have two refineries closing in the next 12 months. That's going to remove 19% or so of our remaining refinery capacity, of our remaining refinery capacity. So we're going to be importing more finished product from overseas which we do not have currently the terminal capacity for. And then one of the refineries that's closing does not have a plan to transition to an import terminal, so we're losing.
Speaker 1:What the hell are y'all going to do? I don't get this. Like, what's the logic behind this decision? An import terminal, so we're losing.
Speaker 2:What the hell are y'all going to do? I don't get this. What's the logic behind this decision? This is why Michael Miche thinks we're going to have $8.50 gasoline. This is why because economics, supply and demand are pretty straightforward and you can run the models and look at the economics California will be short of finished product because we don't have enough refinery capacity. So this is a national emergency, a California national emergency that we talk about when we were just in DC talking about it. I mean, this is a major crisis unfolding.
Speaker 1:And the problem is, though, it's such a and this is my perspective, you're living in it, but I feel like it's just like a shouting match across the aisles of who's right, who's wrong. But the reality is this it goes back to the consumer At the end, cause, like, not only is there finding capacity and all this stuff, but I remember our earlier conversations too like, because you're the pipelines that y'all import also from states around you, from, like, you know, colorado, canada, stuff like it's, it doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense for the, the, the largest state, you know, the largest energy consuming states really kind of suffocate themselves when it comes to their main drug.
Speaker 2:It's pointless, it's senseless, it's self-inflicted wound. We could be prospering greatly, and I think we will. I think the Energy Dominance Council put together by President Trump is going to unleash California, and so I am very optimistic about that. But they can't act soon enough, and so it's going to take a lot of time to rebuild once they can really get their arms around what's happened to California.
Speaker 2:But what you're asking is why, because of exactly the ideology that Germany adopted, we're going to go to 100% zero, net zero. You cannot function as the world's fourth largest economy without producing emissions or environmental impact. It's just a physical impossibility. So what we're seeing is the physical world is really smacking us in the face in California, and it's all for a climate ideology that is founded on nothing. It's it's really it's. It's. It's an ideology to think that we can lead, not only control our emissions to zero, but then lead others to that path, to be net zero, and it's something that, at the end of the day, the environmentalists and the industry folks will come together and say the best thing is to do this right here in California.
Speaker 2:It's frustrating to know what the ultimate solution is, but it's going to take us too long to get there.
Speaker 1:It's already like we know that we know the answer. Why are we waiting so long to come to the table and figure that answer out or discuss the answer? What?
Speaker 2:that looks like Right and it's because this whole climate agenda was so politically driven and so captured by NGOs that are funded by massive donors, dark donors that nobody knows. And it's the reason why the industry back to why we started California's for Energy and Science. The industry needs to take the leadership role in having the conversations, in presenting our projects to the policymakers, to the public, in public comments, in public forums, when you go for your permits's documented anyway. So now what we need to do is be loud and stand up behind the energy abundance agenda.
Speaker 1:It's it's no better time for producers and well, my question, my question for you is do you see the industry standing up and being the voice right?
Speaker 2:not yet, not yet, I see I see elements of of it. I see certain large companies have been grifting on certain climate programs and we don't need to go into those, but big operators tend to take time to really throw their weight around an agenda. I think we'll see after another year or two unfolds. I think ultimately they will get on board with President Trump's agenda because I think it's working. I think the early stages of it are working.
Speaker 1:But I'm not even talking about President Trump's agenda. I'm just talking about the fact that I mean, do you see the industry actually standing up and having a voice, or continue to operate behind the curtains, being quiet, or continue to communicate in a little echo chamber Like I? What I'm saying is from my perspective, I don't see the industry taking enough accountability and responsibility and standing up and speaking things or getting involved where they should. There's a lot of lip service in our industry and I'm sure someone like you, like someone like me, we're trying to do things differently. We're trying to kind of change the status quo. It's very frustrating sometimes when it's like the industry says something but the actions really don't back it up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the industry is starting to. I'm seeing folks at big operators start putting content on LinkedIn and here and there and that's a positive sign no-transcript business and do their own thing and, and you know, lay low under the radar, which I also respect. So, um, I think I think what's important is the entire industry needs to get behind everybody around them in their community, trying to build something meaningful, whether it's new wells.
Speaker 1:What does that look like?
Speaker 2:Well, whether it's new wells, whether it's data centers, whether it's new buildings, ballparks, everything. Sharing those fundamentals, I spend a lot of time in Taft, california. So why does Taft even exist? Because there's natural resources here. Are they still here? Yeah, there's a lot of them. How was the community built? Because they developed the natural resource and had the tax revenue and all the benefits into the local community and a community of 8,000 people rose out of it.
Speaker 2:That's what I think people in the United States want to get back to. You know, I've seen people in Black communities saying hey look, the ice raids came in and now I see Black men and Black women, you know, doing landscaping and opening food trucks and all kinds of stuff. I mean, I don't know, I'm not in these places, but I think that spirit of community is what the industry really needs to rally around and the really needs to rally around and the country needs to rally around. Everybody's sick of these, you know. Protest this, protest that, protest the environment. We were talking before I got on. You know, california is the best climate in the world. It's why it's 72 degrees in July. And here we're going to tell the rest of the country that the climate is doomed, and then we're going to make the rest of the country that the climate is doomed, and then we're going to make the rest of the country pay the bills. It's absurd, it doesn't make any sense. But my question is has energy gotten?
Speaker 1:is it too far? Is it too political? Now, I mean, and is there anything to bring it back from being so political?
Speaker 2:Yeah, cost prohibitive structures, it's going to be too difficult. 20% of the rate payers in California are in arrears on their utility bills. Our price per kilowatt hour is triple what it is in Texas. Yours is going up because you guys are deploying so many solar and lithium parks, just like the system did. So our utility rates on the residential and commercial side and industrial are just too high and our gasoline prices are the highest in the country. So it's cost prohibitive and what's going to happen is people vote with their pocketbook ultimately and that's why President Trump was elected because people weren't feeling very good in their bank account and how they were earning money. And now that's why California is flipping in many states and in many counties to red counties, because people are feeling the pain and they just want something different. If the policy's broken, people aren't stupid.
Speaker 1:A lot of people joke about who Californians vote for. But people vote when differently, when they can't afford life Emissions policy, import other countries' emissions. You're covering so much reality of, I guess, the situation dude. But you are always and I love it dude. You don't even try to do it, but you're always bringing it down to the consumer. You know what I mean. You're like at the end of the day, you can't afford this, you can't afford that. Kids are getting cancer in Iraq, and it's like paying for this or paying for that, like you're always bringing it down to the consumer and at the end of the day, that's what hits home, that's what. It's how it affects you, how it affects me personally.
Speaker 2:Exactly. And the consumer is what's going to win the environmental movement when we decide to buy less stuff from China. Buy less stuff at the, at the store. When we go, you know, walk a few more miles instead of drive a few more miles. Just, you know reasonable things. Rather than telling people you have to buy a new type of vehicle to save the environment. Buying something new is never the solution. So I think more.
Speaker 1:When did the reducing carbon footprint is buy less shit, right.
Speaker 2:Exactly Reduce, reuse, recycle. That's what we grew up on. Let's get back to the basics and then you know unleash California energy, unleash United States energy Exactly what we're trying to do.
Speaker 1:Where have you found the most interesting source of support during your journey? And you can't say?
Speaker 2:can't say your wife or family give me the most interest in support I think, people that wouldn't even think of support, you know, you, you believe, I know, in the power of networking, but people that go to something that you've put on or they see something that you're talking about, even on the internet, and they say, hey, I saw that conversation and I want to help out. And then, okay, it turns out that person is actually working with people at a very high level in certain companies, in certain circles in Sacramento and Washington DC, and it turns out that they can help you, and so I think that that's been the most exciting thing in terms of meeting folks through spreading just the message.
Speaker 1:So I think it'd be so cool to go to DC and kind of have these conversations with you know, you know, decision makers, just kind of like being in the room, kind of hear how they talk about all this stuff. But, bro, you're living it, You're doing, you're going coast to coast doing that. Let me ask you what's been some of the conversations you've had and you don't have to name, I think like what's been some conversations you've had with some of these people that are influencing the nation's lives? When you start having these conversations, what's that like? How are you getting in front of them? What's like? Dude, tell me a story.
Speaker 2:Walk me through the experience. So we have a slide deck called California Energy Emergency. Where do you find it? I can post that. I posted it on LinkedIn. I can post that elsewhere and we distribute it to our members our email list so people can go to energyandsciencecom, sign up and you can get this information.
Speaker 2:We open source what we're doing, but we talk to certain officials about what impacts them. So we've been going for years to Senator Sullivan's office in Alaska talking about the fact that 50% of Alaskan crude gets imported to California and goes to our refineries. So we don't want to shut down our refineries, we want to extend our relationship with the state of Alaska. Alaska and California not too long ago supplied 95% of the crude oil to the state of California. Now 75 percent of it is foreign imports. So we've been talking about that message before.
Speaker 2:The Energy Dominance Council was even an idea for years in DC. So people respect us from that point of view. We've been doing this for years, and then we'll go to other folks and talk about a national security risk of losing 20 percent of California's refineries and oh, by the way, another 10 or 20% is about to follow. This whole thing is a very delicate refining structure. Oh my gosh, it's been really beaten up and beaten down for 40 years of relentless environmental impact fees and lawsuits and just the failure to recognize that we depend on these facilities for modern life in California. So it's all at risk of going away. So those are the most interesting conversations when you're talking to officials in congressional offices or staffers or whatever.
Speaker 1:And you're just there to say like dude, I'm curious, like every time I see your post or like we talk, you know, when you're kind of like an airport or headed back from, I'm like so what are you guys talking about? Like, so you're just there, kind of just providing information and just kind of guiding not guiding and just filling them in on the realities of what you're doing.
Speaker 2:Exactly, all, exactly All the information that we use is from the EIA or California Energy Commission, just federal or state sources and just presenting facts and data and saying, hey, alternatively, we could get back to California and Alaska supplying 95% of California's oil, but it would take XYZ to get there. And so you know, walking through a game plan of how you can achieve those goals and how you can present really projects that are ready to develop. But now one of the critical conversations we're having is just the apathy of the industry, the Atlas shrugged sentiment, where we've tried to get permits for six years under Governor newsom and we haven't been able to and so everybody stopped trying to get permits. Even the the new well applications the past two years are like in the hundreds and we normally drill 3 000 wells a year and it's not because people don't want to drill they just know there's no.
Speaker 1:What's the point? What's the point when you go on permits not gonna get approved?
Speaker 2:yeah, why would I spend the time doing it when I need to run my facility? Run, you know, streamline my operations, find ways to cut cash, uh, and, and you know, improve cash flow, cut spending, um, all those things and so, um, that's a real. I think that's the most critical conversation to have right now is the the industry is on life support and it might be too late to bring it back if we don't really act decisively now. Like, really act decisively now, are you?
Speaker 1:finding a lot of support come from the communities in California, or are you seeing a lot of support coming from other states as well?
Speaker 2:Both other states. I mean we refine a majority of Arizona's gasoline and finished products. It's the same gasoline that we consume in California but when you drive over the border it's $1.20 cheaper because they don't have all the state taxes and climate fees that California does. Nevada we impact. We produce a significant portion of their gasoline and pipe that over to Nevada, southern Nevada, a significant portion of their gasoline and pipe that over to Nevada, southern Nevada, and so there's a great deal of trade going on and impact.
Speaker 2:If California Air Resources Board, which went into effect today, we think this fee is going to ultimately raise the price per gallon another 65 cents from here. So now you're talking about low carbon fuel standard going from a 20 cent tax to a potentially 80 cent tax, and so most Californians don't recognize that that's being passed through their price at the pump. And then Arizona and Nevada are going to be impacted when two refineries shut down and they're at the end of our pipeline, you know. So if there's less product going that way, it's going to be more expensive. Less supply, same demand, price goes up. So they will be impacted significantly by this.
Speaker 2:And so we do talk to Western states and caucuses. The Western caucus is great in Congress and that's a group of folks that is concerned about issues that impact the whole Western United States and those members. So, yeah, we're just really trying to equip everybody with the information. We're not lobbying for anything other than providing information in a way that shows the vitality you know, the vital need for the, for the uh how do you, how do you measure?
Speaker 1:I mean, how do you, I guess, like that seems like such a daunting task is, you know, educate everyone, right, like that's their mission, that's our goal, educate everyone. How do you, uh, you know, I mean, I feel like you're leading the charge how do you, I guess, measure your success, your goals, your goals, your progress? Because you know, sometimes you have you might have supportive 12 people helping you out. Sometimes you're on your on yourself, like, how do you measure, like where you're making traction, what's working, what's not working? Or is it just like, hey, all hands on deck, let's just get it out there? Like, how are you structuring this?
Speaker 2:I think just knowing what's happening, how the conversation conversation is evolving, you can see elements, our hallmarks are all over what's happening. In Sacramento, the Assembly Committee on Utilities and Energy had the director of CARB, California Air Resources Board, the California Energy Commission and the new Department of Petroleum Market Oversight, all the czars, so to speak, of California energy oversight, all the czars, so to speak, of California energy, and they were asking questions CARB, do you track foreign emissions? No, we don't in Iraq. Carb, do you track tanker emissions? No, we don't. In the ports of California. That's why the numbers look so great, Exactly. Carb, do you calculate the cost to the consumer of what your policies are doing? No, we don't. We calculate health benefits which are modeled. So really just the theoretical world.
Speaker 1:So it's like me saying under 2,000 calories a day on a diet, but I'm not including my cheat meal that I have every single night.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:Exactly, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And so it's not working, it's not sustainable, it's falling apart, it's cost prohibitive, and so that's where I see our success is. Our talking points are in these committee hearings. People want to introduce us to people that are crafting a response and really trying to mount a transition offense. We need to get back on offense and win back those valuable yards on the field that we've just lost over the past 40 years in California. But the whole country really took a step back under the Biden administration, so it's good that we're you know're back on a local energy theme. That's the most important thing.
Speaker 1:So I guess you know you're you know, you're. You know, we can wrap up.
Speaker 2:I mean I got, I got someone calling me in seven minutes, but what do you have going on?
Speaker 1:Wait you with you. You're working this late this afternoon, okay, well, I guess let's, let's, let's have a three how you been man. So what's what's going on how you doing Like what's what's been going on in your world.
Speaker 2:Um kids travel, work, I mean you know summer life kids doing surf camp. Yeah, it's really rad they're surfing.
Speaker 1:They're learning the right way yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, our good friends are doing it, uh, for him. He's an awesome surf instructor. So, yeah, it's pretty cool. This is pretty cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're having a summer. Okay, I got. I want to back to this real quick.
Speaker 2:So when you're talking about California, indian science and all that stuff, where do you see this progressing and going? Do you see this kind of little seedlings right now, a couple, two, three years in? So, california, I think the energy crisis is coming our way, and so the more we can speak out about it and help the people of California then the more they'll join our movement and learn about what we're doing. So I think we'll naturally grow pretty nicely here and we're going to keep having bigger and better events and getting bigger and better on social media and getting that infrastructure set up. And then it's a national discussion California you and I have talked about it California 40% of the imports come through California.
Speaker 2:It's a national inflation story. So I think generally, broadly, the nation will start to realize how critical California is. Especially when we're going to be hosting the World Cup and then the Olympics in California, there's going to be so much spotlight on our state. So I'm really stoked for that. That's where I see us going, where, in two, three years, when those events start rolling through, we're there, we're there and we're there with with the message that you know the people need to hear.
Speaker 1:Y'all should sponsor something for the Olympics. Let's get that, get that logo up there somewhere. Have them go to that website. I know, I know.
Speaker 1:Hey, you never know but then you might, but then you might I mean dude my thing, at the end of the day, it's like you know, y'all are our organization. There's so many different organizations out there the fact that you're actually finding your, your, your voice, and not get drowned out with a lot of different other, you know, whether it's similar messages or competing messages or anything like that I think that's such a powerful thing to do. And you know, I, and I think you know, as you grow, it's going to be exciting to watch you kind of maybe expand to even other States. I mean, do you see that I would? I would like to. It's. It's kind of funny too. It's like it's it's not funny but, like you know, people will listen to you. You know, like people hear you. I think you know like you've been brought up several times around, but it's always one of those things too when it's like oh well, that's California, that's not going to happen here, that's just.
Speaker 1:California. It's like man, like if you can like comment on that, like for me that's kind of like policy, yeah, like it's really it doesn't really have a lot of boundaries because California did that 2035 mandate. What happened? Like two months later, new Jersey, on the other side of the Coast, did the exact same thing To mirror that.
Speaker 2:So policy spreads Right, you know, and I would encourage people to stop thinking of California as this totally lefty crazy place and start thinking of it as like wow, I have a different point of view and maybe I can help California flip and I can go buy my beach house and that'll be a vacation home and I'll really love California because I don't like 115 degrees in the summer. But seriously, I think, recognizing that California sets the tone for national conversations, recognizing there's a reason this administration took away the waivers for the vehicle mandate, that's a huge titanic shift in policy from Biden administration which is totally aligned with California.
Speaker 2:I think I'd also say that I've spoken Texas years ago saying you're going to have President Newsom and everybody laughs. But hey, you know, vice president harris ran for president this last go-round and the reason that, and there was a conversation yeah, it was a harris going to be newsom, like, oh, like before it was decided.
Speaker 1:I remember that and I'm like I remember you saying that at the petroleum club and everyone laughed at you and you're like right, all right, laugh it up laugh it up, laugh it up, but he laughs it up.
Speaker 2:But there's a reason. He's in the national discussion again for 2028. And now between now and then is a long time, it's an eternity urgently signaling and I don't want it to be, uh, you know, in opposition. I think there's a way believe it or not, to work with governor newsom. I think going to governor newsom and explaining hey, you can, you can have really good energy policy here locally in california. Uh, you just need to do xyz, that's important.
Speaker 1:So there's a way to work together we know what else is important.
Speaker 2:That phone call I'll talk to you later, Mike.
Speaker 1:This is coming on.
Speaker 2:Hey, we got to talk about Crew.
Speaker 1:Club. Love you, brother, love you. And I want to thank Mike Umbro for coming on Energy Crew Podcast. Can't believe I drew a blank there and didn't forget, completely forgot the flow of the conversation. That happens though it's late in the afternoon. I'm on Texas time, he's on Cali time, but hey, I want to thank everyone for tuning in to Energy Crew Podcast. Again, check Mike out. Check the Californians for Energy and Science out. They're doing great work over there Again, grassroots movement, but they're churning and they're getting momentum and they're talking to a lot of different people about energy realities and energy expectations and I love what they do. So again, that's Mike Umbro. Check him out. Thank you everyone for tuning in Energy Crew and this podcast is brought to you by Liberty Drilling Services. Bye, thank you.