Energy Crue

Powering Tomorrow: Data Centers, Water Crisis, and Energy Realities

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JP Warren discusses the key takeaways from the August 2025 Crue Club Operator Roundtable led by Dan Ramito of Pickering Energy Partners, focusing on the changing energy, power, and water paradigm for Texas and beyond.

• Data centers require massive resources with Texas power needs projected to nearly double from 85 to 150 gigawatts by 2030
• A single hyperscale data center uses 164 million gallons of water yearly, with total water needs equivalent to 400,000 Olympic pools by 2030
• Current emissions reporting relies on factor-based estimations (spreadsheet formulas) rather than actual measurements
• Investors and insurers increasingly demand reconciled measurements combining both on-site sensors and aerial monitoring
• China controls 80% of renewable supply chains while still building coal and nuclear plants
• Tech companies exploring Small Modular Reactors (SMRs) to avoid grid constraints for data centers
• The industry must shift from engineering-focused messaging to stories about cash growth and margins
• US has reduced emissions intensity by 40% since 1975 while GDP per capita grew by 40%

Check out Dan Ramito on LinkedIn for more insights about energy realities and the challenges we face as a nation.


Speaker 1:

Welcome.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to a new energy podcast. I'm your host, jp Warren. This episode I'm going to do my very best to try to kind of give you the key takeaways that we had from our Crew Club Operator Roundtable in August of 2025. Uh, in August of 2025. Um, this was when Dan Raimondo, the managing director of Picker Energy Partners, uh came to the table and led a fantastic conversation on the energy, power and water paradigm for Texas, how the U? S and the world, how it's changing and it's continuing to change, and this was a very high level conversation. Dan, who, uh, actually, I met through LinkedIn just seeing his material, um, he does all these talks about kind of like bridging energy expectations and energy realities, how kind of you know poor energy policy, how it impacts actual you know consumers and what's really driving the energy policies and kind of the shifts when it comes to water, power, electricity and everything like that. So I love how Dan led the discussion and, again, this is a very high level conversation. This is probably about the seventh or eighth time I've started this podcast and I just kind of get tripped up because I'm trying to think about where to start, how to talk about it, but I'm just going to base the conversation off my notes, because I think that's probably the best way to do about it Not try to fill it in too much and just kind of give you the key takeaways of what we talked about around the table. Again, dan Romano had a fantastic conversation. I want to thank everyone for being there the Drafts Command, liberty Drillings Services, fortis Energy Services, volant Products, mesa Solutions and I think that's it. So pretty much the whole point of this conversation is Dan has been speaking at all these different events, whether the inside the industry or outside the industry, when it comes to kind of what the energy demand, how it's changing, kind of whether it's water resources, electricity, what's going to be required with all these new data centers and AI and what's required for all this stuff. So, again, this is again high level stuff. Some of this is kind of outside my realm, but I'm going to do my best. I'm using my notes to kind of clarify on what we kind of talked about, so kind of to kind of set the scene real quick. So there's a lot of conversation.

Speaker 1:

When Dan first stepped on the plate about when he was having these energy reality conversations, he was needing a lot of conversation when it comes to ESG, not the virtue ESG and all that stuff that everyone signs off for, but pretty much how investors respond to ESG. He was spending a lot of time in Europe at the time and he was seeing a huge push from investment firms investment I guess the investment sentiment when it came to investing in companies and ESG kind of became a kind of a huge topic of conversation. That's kind of where he settled into this. Now it's ESG versus sustainability, so don't conflate these two things. All right, so decarbonization is increasingly framed as resource efficiencies under things. All right, so decarbonization is increasingly framed as resource efficiencies under constraint All right. So think we're trying to use less waste and less stuff, while kind of keeping the lights on keeping the consistent energy power. All right, the US track record since about 1975, the US reduced emissions intensity. We reduced our emission intensity by about 40 percent, while the GDP per capita grew about 40%. So we did a couple of growth from emissions better than most actual nations. All right. So I guess we got richer with polluting less per dollar. All right.

Speaker 1:

And the global supply chain reality is China controls about 80% of wind and solar supply chains. All right, while they're also still building to this day a lot of coal plants, a lot of nuclear plants. So chains all right, while they're also building still building to this day a lot of coal plants, a lot of nuclear plants. So, again, just because China's converting to renewables, that doesn't mean that the renewable industry is in a safe spot just because China controlling 80% of the market right there and again, china is not. Just because charts might be showing going green or switching more renewables, that also doesn't take away the reality that coal is powering that country, that hydrocarbons are still an essential part in their growth, in their GDP. So let's kind of dive into this real quick.

Speaker 1:

The first segment we kind of talked about was the data center wave, kind of how power and water are affecting this whole data center. I'm sure out there you're seeing either headlines or maybe you've driven past these huge data centers. They're just enormous buildings housing all these computers and so what does it take to actually kind of keep one of these things up and running? So in Texas power it peaked about 85 gigawatts. But the future demand projections point that Texas power need to be 150 gigawatts by 2030. So in five years we're about double that the power demand All right. So in five years we're going from 85 gigawatts and it's going to be needed to be 150 gigawatts All right, so that's an insane amount of power that's going to be needed. All right Water. So for a single hyperscale data center, the water used is about 164 million gallons of year and again, I'm using my notes for this just because there's so much information. I think is very fascinating. So, with US sites growing from about 500 today at about 2030, we're going to be about two anda half times where we're at today. So that water that's going to be needed that can be equal to 400,000 Olympic-sized pools per year. That's insane. So 400,000 Olympic-sized pools all right per year, that's insane. So 400,000 Olympic-sized pools full of water are going to be needed to power these new AI data centers, which is fascinating.

Speaker 1:

All right, and there's a lot of pressure right now with a lot of communities, a lot of NIMBY mentality, the whole not in my backyard, so they're talking about you know a lot of these communities that they want to set up these huge data centers. There's a lot of pushback because whether it's the noise, whether it's the land footprint, whether it's the water resource that's going to be needed or the electricity that's going to be needed. But also it's another thing too, where it's not creating as many jobs as people are projecting or promoting. So that's also been a lot of pushback from these rural communities. I think, when it comes to energy, this whole NIMBY mentality and we're going to talk about this in another podcast because we just got back from Colorado with Mike Umbro, with California's for NG and science it's very interesting when it comes to energy, this NIMBY mentality, but I get it, it makes sense. But just because we have a NIMBY mentality when we're talking about energy, but that doesn't mean we need to offsite our energy production I'm getting in my head of myself when it comes to the next one, because California, it's a very NIMBY mentality.

Speaker 1:

They started shutting down production, they started closing down refineries, but it doesn't take away from the energy reality that they're still consuming a certain amount of barrels of fossil fuels, hydrocarbons I don't even hate the word fossil fuels, but they're still consuming a certain amount of energy. And where are they getting that? They're getting it from Iraq, venezuela, russia, all these outsourced places, because it's not in my backyard. But is that the best thing environmentally? Is that the best thing for countries, for communities? Probably not. We'll dive into that in another Energy Crew podcast. So now we're talking about nuclear thermal plants. So thermal plants use about five gallons of water per kilowatt for cooling. This is pretty much of a common figure, all right.

Speaker 1:

So we have a couple of questions here too, throughout this episode. Where do you see the biggest constraint when it comes to building these AI data centers? These data centers? Is it going to be the power supply of things? Is it going to be the water? Is it going to be kind of the social license that we have to make with these rural communities? What do you see the biggest kind of, I guess, obstacle and how do we kind of break through that? And I guess another thing to think about is what messaging would work best for these communities when they're trying to build these huge data centers.

Speaker 1:

All right, so the second segment we got into is how the investment community is having more stringent measurements. So there's a big thing about measuring. You know greenhouse gases, measuring stuff like that. So the current system is kind of what we discussed around the table. It's kind of broken a little bit. All right, right now a lot of companies are reporting emissions using factors, and pretty much this is just guessing kind of your emissions from some formula that was created on an Excel spreadsheet, all right. So it's pretty much people are tracking their emissions with pretty much a government approved spreadsheet with some formulas in it. So does that mean it's necessarily accurate? Does that mean it's actually telling the story? That kind of is the reality of what's going on when it's producing energy? Probably not All right. The problem is that these are just guesses. They're not actual, real measurements. So policymakers, insurers and investors really don't trust this. I mean, do you trust something that's kind of that? You're just kind of maybe guessing something through, especially when it comes to how you maybe bring in investments or pretty much maybe how you tell your story to the kind of the world. Probably not.

Speaker 1:

So there was a conversation on we probably need better measurements when we are measuring kind of all these the greenhouse gases that we produce. So what does good look like when it comes to kind of measuring the greenhouse gases? Measuring what is this? The air quality? So what does good look like? So, around the table it was bottom up. So how did we put sensors kind of around the locations, around the sites to kind of measure, have continuous measuring right there and also top down. So these are flyovers, these are satellites, measuring stuff.

Speaker 1:

And there's also we were discussing kind of having a reconciliation of kind of this one. So when you combine the bottom up so again the sensors are on the ground and the top down to get the planes flying in the air, you kind of reconcile these numbers All right. So when you can reconcile this, improve your actual numbers. That's what the investment community is looking for. That's kind of more of a trustworthy number versus saying, hey, this is what our spreadsheet says, all right. So one analogy is like checking your bank account with both your receipt log and the bank's official statement so saying, hey, listen, those match, then you can trust that number, all right. So yeah, so there's some frameworks that are kind of pushing this shift to kind of have this reconciliation when it comes to these two numbers the OGPM 2.0, which is a UN program.

Speaker 1:

Level three is you're still using estimates, you're still cranking away in these spreadsheets. Level four is that you start measuring directly. You're doing the top down or bottom up, all right. Level five you've reconciled both and prove your accuracy. All right, this one, this level five, it shows progress towards measuring you can bank on, aka measuring for investors to invest in your company. All right, the MIQ certification. That adds audits and consultants to check your gas as low methane. So the cost can be 0.2, about 20 cent, 0.2 to 0.25 MMBTU. But premiums for selling certified gas are hit or miss. So, again, the ROI is not guaranteed for that. So why does this matter?

Speaker 1:

Beyond the ESG buzzwords and all that stuff, we're talking about Number one insurers. Insurers all right, insurers are starting to man measurement and underwriting. Why? Well, that's because they don't want lawsuits down the road for covering a company with leaky operations. And investors are kind of tired of the whole trust me data, right, the whole trust me. Oh, this is what we're doing. Trust me, trust me, trust me. Investors are kind of getting away from that. They want hard numbers, they want stuff that they can rely on, they want information that they can trust. All right, and with operators, when operators measure better, you can prove that you're clean. You can prove that you're clean which grants you access to capital, which grants you access to insurance and avoids being kind of boxed out of capital or permits, all right, so again. So this is something to think about, some talking points. If an operator was to start tomorrow. All right, and start drilling wells tomorrow. What's the bare minimum tech stack sensors, drone surveys that would win their trust, right. So how would you actually, if you were going to start tomorrow, what would you do to start building the investor community's trust, the insurer's community's trust, all right. And how do you explain to a generalist investor that measurement isn't just about being green, it's about protecting cashflow and lowering risk? This is an interesting conversation to have, especially in the oil and gas industry. How do you actually have these conversations about energy realities, how you're being environmental stewards and still attract investments? That's hey, listen, if I can answer that question, I want to be doing an energy group podcast in my office at the house, all right.

Speaker 1:

This, the next segment we moved into, is kind of the tech bros and how the bridge powered SMRs, all right. So the tech POV. So tech bros are actually viewing natural gas as a bridge power, uh, between, uh, fossil, dirty fossil fuels and clean renewables. Again, that's the biggest marketing BS out there in my opinion. But natural gas is a bridge power, why people are trying to build these SMRs, which is the small module, nuclear reactors, pretty much these small nuclear source of energy that can kind of run these data centers or locations and all that stuff. Again, these SMRs be off grid, which is great, so it won't pull on the existing tired grid that a lot of places are having right now. So some hyperscalers are seeing dedicated energy generation or power generation to avoid grid battles All right. So again, think about Texas, ercot, think about California there's a lot of strain on the grid, so these companies are looking for, again, another source of energy to keep these huge data centers running, all right.

Speaker 1:

So what's the timeline between getting these SMRs, these nuclear reactors, these nuclear not reactors, whatever these SMRs online? Some people are saying five years. However, there's some people are saying it's going to take a lot, a little bit longer than five years, because we have the manufacturing, we don't have the licensing, there's some environmental permits we might have to go through. But again, what's the talk out there? No one really knows. With some people saying five years, some people are saying you know a lot longer than that. So no one really knows right now. But the thing is, though, it is on people's radar, so that means people are probably talking about moving towards that direction. So again, this whole mentality of like oh well, you know it'll be here down the road. Technology, people working on the technology today, all right.

Speaker 1:

So there's some grid constraints to T&D. Bottlenecks make behind the meter, you know. The onside power is stronger for both data centers and some industrial loads and there's a price pressure. Operators report power costs climbing. So one example is one company was dealing with about 0.04 cents per kilowatt. Within five years that 0.04 went to 10 to 12 kilowatts per hour in about five years. So that's squeezing the field economics of everything going out there. So it's a lot. It's a lot right now. So there's a lot of challenges out there when it comes to meeting power demands.

Speaker 1:

But also, what does it mean to the resources just water, such as everything like that? So local communities, all right. So what's the? The segment D, which is the capital messaging what the story leads?

Speaker 1:

Number one the investor memory is that the shell or companies operating the shale plays are great at burning cash and not bringing returns back. All right, so that's still a memory that a lot of investment communities have is that shale is great at burning capital. However, the story must translate to cash growth and margins, not just the engineering detail. You know our industry is obviously run by a lot of engineers out there and engineers are very data-driven, very, you know, stuck to the data, stuck to the points. But that's not the story that drives people to invest, that's not the stories that change people's perception when it comes to energy, when it comes to power. So again, maybe changing the story a little bit, all right. So what is the operator playbook? So how do operators start leading these conversations? Are they leading with efficiency and transparent measurement wins, kind of? What are they doing out there when it comes to measuring their, their GHD or anything like that? Or the methane? So, again, lower methane intensity and power cost control.

Speaker 1:

And again, even the policy mood is shifting. Even with deregulation rhetoric, agencies want proof that the industry can self-raise standards, otherwise regulation returns. So, as an industry, if we're not taking proactive steps on how we're actually regulating ourselves, what we're reporting, how we're collecting data, then we're leaving that to other people to come in and kind of regulate our industry ourselves. So again, that's just something that again we need to take and be maybe a little more proactive. I think, historically, our industry has done a pretty poor job on being proactive when it comes to telling our story, talking about the benefits of energy and the benefits of power and even just kind of defending false claims around us. So, again, how are we as an industry having these conversations to the investment community, right? Is it just we're just talking data, just talking data points, or are we telling the story? Again, I think it's shifting into telling a story that's going to have a lot more stickiness, all right.

Speaker 1:

So one question that I have here is you know, give me so when you're thinking about your company, whether you're an operator, service company, or maybe you're not even in the industry, you're just out there kind of listening because you dig these podcasts what would be your 90-second pitch, right? What would be your 90-second pitch when it comes to cash growth and risk controls, like what's in, what's out, right? And if premiums for certified gas aren't reliable yet, what's the ROIC case for measurement anyway, right? Insurance, access to capital, permitting or community license, all right. So some quick facts to kind of wrap this stuff up, which I thought was interesting.

Speaker 1:

The Texas load is about 85 gigawatts now, with 150 gigawatts projected in five years. So think about that, think about the winters we have, think about the strain on the ERCOT power system and how it's tied into a huge challenge for just Texas alone. But again, there's a lot of other grids out there that are kind of outdated infrastructure Water and data centers. Currently it's about 164 million gallons per year In 2030, that's going to be two and a half times that Again, equating to about 400,000 Olympic pools combined. That's going to be needed. All right, 400,000 Olympic pools combined that's going to be needed, all right. Thermal power thermal power water uses about, you know, five gallons per kilowatt. The US is decoupling again 40% lower carbon intensity since 1975 with 40% higher cap in GDP All right, that's pretty impressive.

Speaker 1:

China renewables China controls about 80% of the supply chain when it comes to renewables. All right, so again, they're still building coal, they're still building nuclear. So again, going all renewables might leave you in a bind because with China controlling 80% of the supply, what can that do to supply chains, to prices, to reliability, to technology? All right. And then certification of economics MIQ can cost 0.20 to 0.25 MMBTU. See, again, these conversations are way over my head. That's why I'm reading my notes. But again, there's additional costs when it comes to kind of getting insured if you aren't providing actual data, top down, bottom up, all right. So let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see.

Speaker 1:

So, at the end of the day, I want to thank everyone for being at the table. I would advise, if you're really kind of looking to understand more about when it comes to data centers, when it comes to kind of the resources needed for these data centers and kind of where we are at a bottleneck when it comes to a lot of these discussions, link up with Dan Ramado. Check him out on LinkedIn. He's got some great material out there when it comes to kind of these realities that we're kind of faced right now as a nation. He does a great, you know 30,000 foot geopolitical view, but he also ties it back to a lot of local areas where these challenges are present today and they're going to continue to be growing unless we start having these conversations to change them. So, again, we are in an interesting bind, and I was blown away about the amount of resources that it takes for these huge, huge, huge data centers. And it's one of those things too, this NIMBY mentality. Everyone's utilizing AI, everyone needs power, everyone needs to have consistent, reliable power. So how do we actually become energy maximists and do it in a responsible way? So I want to thank everyone at the table. I want to thank all of you for listening out there. I hope this made sense.

Speaker 1:

I didn't feel that confident with this podcast but again, I felt that this was such an interesting conversation I had to get it out there. That's why I was based off my notes. But, again, thank you for tuning in. Energy crew podcast Uh, that's where we're just kind of having conversations, whether it's industry leaders talking about kind of their journey or just kind of what's happening in the energy space today.

Speaker 1:

Um, and, yeah, I think that's it. I think, uh, I want to. I want to thank everyone for being uh, for tuning in and uh, having these conversations again. Um, yeah, I guess, uh, thanks for thanks for tuning in. We'll see you on the next Energy Crew podcast again, yeah, as you can tell, this one was not. I wasn't the most confident of this one. Even to wrap it up, I felt like I've been spinning. But thank you out there. Thank you, dan Romato and everyone else out there for tuning in. Again, we have some energy issues at hand, but again, through conversations, through getting together with a lot of smart people and talking about this, maybe we can kind of start moving forward and getting out of these energy bonds. Thank you.