The Art of Faux Pas #11 - Bernard Baumgarten

Bernard Baumgarten is a Luxembourgish dance artist, choreographer, director, mentor (you name it!!) notoriously known for being the artistic director of the TROIS C-L Maison pour la Danse of Luxembourg since 2007. He is an ear and a support to many emerging and established artists, from Luxembourg and internationally. I have rarely met someone so patient and kind to the young generation of makers. 

He started his dance career as a dancer in Germany, France, Austria and Luxembourg before transitioning into the realm of choreography, his works have been showcased on an international stages.

TROIS C-L holds membership in Aerowaves and the European EDN (European Dancehouse Network) network, underscoring its commitment to the broader European dance community. In addition to his role at TROIS C-L, Baumgarten serves as an advisor to the Luxembourg Ministry of Culture and holds a position as a board member of Kultur LX Art Consul of Luxembourg.
Bernard also played a crucial role in founding the international artistic exchange network known as Grand Luxe. This network is designed to facilitate collaboration and dialogue among European choreographers, functioning as a hub for sharing ideas and fostering artistic growth. 

Together we talked about FALLING ASLEEP ON STAGE / INTEGRITY / THE. SHOW MUST GO ON / NEVER LOOK BACK / and MUSICALS. 

Transcript

Léa:[00:00:00] Hello, Bernard. Thank you so much for being with me today. I'm really excited to be chatting with you. 

Bernard: Hello, Léa. 

Léa: Um, I think let's start with a little introduction. If you could share with us your name, your age, and what you do. 

Bernard: I’m, my name is Bernard Baumgarten. I'm, uh, three times 20. And, uh, I'm the artistic director of  TROIS-CL, who is the dance house in Luxembourg.

Léa: Can you recall what's your first memory of dance? 

Bernard: Well, it's my first memory. Um, isn't this embarrassing? It's a bit embarrassing, right? My first memory is like this, uh, musicals of the fifties in the TV in my parents place. And, uh, and it's really cheesy musical, like Ziegfeld Follies or this huge stage or, or like hundreds of girls [00:01:00] just going with dress around the stage just to be beautiful.
And I was really amazed about that. And of course, after a bit better musical, like Singing in the Rain and all these other musicals. 

Léa: And did you know from an early age that dance could be a career? 

Bernard: Yes, I know. When, um, I was five, six, and I always in my head, it was clear, I will do this. But of course it was not realistic.
If you are born in a family or nobody care about art, for sure not about dance. Um, but it was in my head and yeah, I think, uh, this, I kept that till I was 16 and then I, I start to do it. So did you take classes already from when you were very young or was it from 16? Um, No, you, well, it's like I say, if you imagine that you're in a family who, [00:02:00] who, who are not really in the art scene, it's not really, you cannot imagine to, to take a dance class in that time in Luxembourg.
And, uh, but I was, um, everything came back to me when I was in the cinema. I saw Fame, the famous film. And, um, I was sitting in the cinema and I say, this is what I want to do. And I decide on the spot to take a first dance class. But in that time, finding a place to do a dance class in Luxembourg, when you have no idea where to start, that was really a challenge.
Léa: And when, when would you say your professional training starts? 
Bernard: Well, my, my professional training starts quite late. So after this private, I was in the first moments in private schools, then I, I came, uh, to the conservatory of Luxembourg. So, or I had modified [00:03:00] diverse classes like ballet and modern in this time.
And, and of course, jazz dance. And then, uh, I think I was 19 when I start, I went to France and there I start really, uh, a dance. How can I say? I, I start to dance in, in a school who are specialized in that time. Um, But there was not so many schools in, in that time who, who, who you had, of course, the big classical ballet schools and all this, but this was not possible for me, of course.
And, um, then I find, I find a private school in the south of France and, and I did a couple of auditions also in other schools, but that was the first one who said, yes, okay, come. And so I start in this private school in, in the south of France. 

Léa: And then did you audition for choreographers? Like, how did you start in the professional [00:04:00] world as a dancer?

Bernard: Oh, yeah. Well, in, actually, I finished my, what in that time you could call a kind of diploma to whatever this value was in this time. And, um, I, my teacher in, my main teacher in that school, uh, had to do a musical. uh, in Paris. I was in Paris in that time. And, uh, he invited me to be a part of the, of the company.
And, um, so I, I did this French musical and had a couple of performances in Paris. So my first professional contract was in Paris. So I think nobody remembered that musical. But you do. I do. I have to . 

Léa: Are you able to articulate today why dance? 

Bernard: There's no other options. There was no other options, and there are still today. No other options. [00:05:00] Um. My parents was really, uh, behind me that I had to learn something very serious that I can make money from. And so, um, I finished my diploma in that time in, uh, in, um, in, uh, in the school in Luxembourg. And then as soon I had my diploma, I say, okay, now. I do what I want, no? So, and then, I was 19 at that time, and then I, I left Luxembourg, and I left with the phrase, I will never come back.

Léa: And there you are. 20 years later! 

Bernard: I came back, and yeah, I'm still here. Nice. And, um, I'm interested to, like, hear how did you make the leap from being a dancer to then being a choreographer to then being an artistic director, like, how and or what interested you? Yeah. [00:06:00] Well, of course you had to start somewhere.
So, um, of course you start like to, to, to learn to dance and to learn to be a professional dancer lady. And, and then, uh, yeah, you, you have to imagine in that time in Paris, it was really a very strange situation. Um, when I, I auditioned, you could go in Paris. to three auditions a day in that time. It was, everybody came to Paris to audition, even international choreographer came to Paris.
And even if they never worked in Paris, you had to go somewhere in another country. But the audition, Paris was in that time the audition place. So, um, I know that I want to leave Paris and after I finish my dance school stuff. So I. I decided to audition whenever I could and then in parallel I had this musical to do.
So in the night I was dancing on stage and the whole day I was [00:07:00] auditioning. And some auditions they were five minutes. They said, Jay, come in, pick up your t shirt out, put your t shirt out on a And in addition, yeah, there were, there were a couple of hours, some, some also about two or three days. And, and, uh, so, and that's how I had a couple of very shitty works to do, but in the same time I had no money.
So I had to do some, uh, not so interesting work, some commercials, um, whatever I could find just, just to pay the rent and, uh, and, and to survive. Yeah. And, um, so. The first spot was, was to be dancer. And then suddenly I had this very strange new choreographer, nobody hear about him. He came from Portugal and his name was Rui Horta.
And he did this audition, um, in Paris and And in that time, I was auditioned for, for everything, whatever came. So, [00:08:00] and then they say, oh, he do contemporary dance. I had no clue what is contemporary dance. We have to go back, you know, to, to early 90s. So, and, um, And so I was there, but luckily he was very technical.
So, and in that, in that time I was very good trained and technically there was no problem, but of course he wants more. And I know from this first moment on, this is the guy I want to work with. So I did, I did whatever I could. And I, I, I did everything he asked for and I didn't care. And I say, I want to work with this guy.
And it took three, two days. And after two days, after I think we, we stopped to 200 people. And then in the end, that was this one of the seven he chose. So that was like the beginning. And I say all this, just to say that He was very into, okay, you have, you participate on the creative process. So it's not that he give [00:09:00] you all the steps.
You have also to, to bring some stuff in and some personal steps in also personal energy. And, and of course there was a natural wave also bring you also to be a creator. And that's how, um, yeah, I start also to do, um, Slowly my own stuff while I was keeping the connection with Luxembourg and Luxembourg was also in a kind of development in that time and of course a Luxembourg dancer outside they called me back can you do something here and that so I did some small stuff here for Luxembourg in that time and that's how natural I came also to be a dance maker or even I can say that.

Léa: And then how was the shift for you to then become a director of such a structure as TROIS-CL that's growing like it's growing every year? 

Bernard: Yeah, well, we have to pull that in. That's not everything happened [00:10:00] in three years. We're talking here about 25 years of, of, of work. And, and, um, yeah, after to, to produce a couple, a couple of main projects, production, also do my own company and, and, um, also then, uh, to do works for other companies. Um, of course I had some, so they, they had an eye on me and, and they asked me, uh, if I want to be more in Luxembourg and, and no way for me. I was living in Berlin in that time and I had really no plan to come back to Luxembourg, but I, I also want to give something back to Luxembourg. So we had a festival every summer here in Luxembourg. That was actually in that time, the only moment of, of, of young contemporary choreographer here. This was an open air festival. And every summer I had nothing to do. So I came back, I give a hand to, to the people from the festival.
[00:11:00] And I start there to, of course, to drive the minibus, to bring the artists from the airport to the hotel. You had to pick up people, otherwise they were lost, and there was no possibility for them to look on the phone on the way to go to the hotel. And, um, yeah, and then more and more I was involved in the organization, and then, I don't know how it came, but one day I was the artistic director of the festival.
So, so, and, uh, I was running that festival till, I think, 2009, where I stopped it. Yeah. And 2007 Luxembourg was European Culture City and 2006 they had the call to everybody could apply with some projects and I think I had more crazy projects. So I decided to create an ephemeral production house to create the um, choreography work, but also in [00:12:00] connection with other art fields, um, for six months here in Luxembourg.
So, and, uh, and the idea was also that the audience could come in to see the artistical development, not creation development, and And nobody believed in it. And, um, but I got the whole money from it from the organization in that time for European Culture City. And, um, and Trasiel was not a part of this project, but I was a bit afraid to do that alone.
So I offered to Trasiel that they can get, take the, the project and they accept. And so they decide. Um, that I will be the artistic director of the project. So I say, okay. So I stay for one year in Luxembourg to do that project. And then in, in the end, I supposed to go back to, to Berlin. But then they offer me to be the director.
of TROIS C-L, the Artistic Director, but they didn't have an Artistic [00:13:00] Director till then. And you have to imagine it was a very small thing. It was a small office somewhere with a small rehearsal room at that time. Um, and I say, no, No way. I don't want to be in Luxembourg. I want to be in Berlin. I live in Berlin.
And, uh, I don't want to come back to Luxembourg. And, uh, they say, okay, but help us to put everything in space. And then we will look for someone. And, um, I say, okay, I stay for three months and I say six months and then a year. Well, I'm still here since 2007. Yeah. 

Léa: What's if you can recall your best memory on stage as a dancer? Or as a witness of your own work? 

Bernard: Well, as a dancer, of course, that was the, um, in that time, this premiere with Rui Horta in Frankfurt Museum, that was my main big major [00:14:00] piece, where I was a dancer, a full dancer, seven dancers on stage, no, no first dancer, no second dancer, there was seven full dancers on stage.
And, uh, the title of the piece was a long time before the end. And, uh, we had the contract for three months and four performances. And this piece had such a success, we couldn't stop to perform. They add all the time performances. I can't remember how many times we performed this piece. And, um, And I end up with a three years contract and five premieres with Rui Horta.
So, and that was quite exhausting. It was a lot of touring around the world, a lot of, uh, yeah, creative process and everything. And, but I can say the day of the premiere of this first creation, when the audience did the standing ovation, everybody was screaming. And that was just incredible. [00:15:00] And this next morning, we had a look out of the window of the rehearsal room and the office, the book office.
They had, um, they had so many people want to book tickets to see the show. But overnight, everybody was talking about this show. And, uh, one of the crew, uh, did, uh, pictures and he measured the line, the length of the line, and he came back and he said, the line is 500 meters, people stay in line to buy tickets.
And I think, well, what do you want more? Wow. 

Léa: Do you recall a best memory? As a witness of your own work? 

Bernard: Well, the best memory, I think there are always new best memories, but I think today I can say it's the premiere of my two or three last works I did. But today I don't choreograph anymore, I have no time for that.
But I think, yeah, the best memories is that. It's like when when you do a new work and you have [00:16:00] this premiere and then you, of course, you're never sure about it. And then people are just enthusiastic and they applause and everybody come to you after. And well, yeah, the best memory I think is always about the last work.

Léa: Nice. What's your worst memory on stage as a dancer or as a dancer or, and as a witness of your own work, both as well. 

Bernard: Yeah, well, as a dancer, I think I have two main worst memory. One, I fall in sleep on stage in the show. How did you? And that was crazy. In that time we had so many, many shows. It was really crazy.
And that was also on this Rui Horta touring moment. And we had, I think that was the last show I danced with him. And, and we had this two levels, a set design on stage. And, and the first 15 [00:17:00] minutes was just like running, running, running, dancing like hell. And then I supposed to, to go on the first on the next level sitting there and that was about two and a half meter three meter high and just focusing seriously on the center of sage or something terrible happened and i fall in sleep and i wake up in just in the moment where my head was Was pulling me to the front.
So I was falling basically. And I just wake up the second, exactly second I could, uh, something to hold me back. And, um, so in that moment I was so shaking. I was really, really shaking. So I had to go back and then lie down and breathe while I was completely panicked. Luckily, I had time, but on the whole moment I was thinking, Okay, how can I go down here now and dance?
It's just impossible. And, yeah, but somehow I make [00:18:00] it in the end. I think that was really the worst moment. Were you with someone? Were you, or were you on your own? Uh, on the first level, I was on my own. Yeah. The other dancer was backstage and, and I think there was a duet on the center and I supposed to be the guy who look at this situation on the center stage.
And, uh, yeah, it was, uh, I think that was a heavy moment. 

Léa: And do you remember like a worst memory as a witness of your own work? 

Bernard: Well, um, yeah, yeah, I think, um, I, I was, for a moment, I was very much in biography. Uh, so I was looking for interesting biography to somehow bring that on stage. And, uh, in that moment I was working on the project, uh, triology around Uh, Anaïs Nin and Henry Miller, and also the third part was, uh, Henry Miller had a girlfriend and they had, like, a menage a [00:19:00] trois, and we were doing the second part, and I don't know what happened, but the whole dancer group collapsed somehow.
Once that, he didn't want to dance anymore. His life was, you know, shitty and, and somehow he pulled the whole group with him somewhere. And I had so much hard time to bring everybody back, uh, on energy and everything. And it took me two or three days. And then I decided to quit the whole group. I say, okay, this, this will bring us Anyway, anyway, and so I, and this was really, I had a premiere date.
I had to do this, this piece. I had no choice. And so then I had really to run to find, I was in Berlin, I had to run to find dancers. I need three dancers to do this piece. And I have to say, this was, Uh, also a very good moment where I found three fantastic dancer and we start [00:20:00] from zero again. I think we were halfway in the process, but we start from zero again and then the work became really good.

Léa: A faux pas is a socially embarrassing action or mistake. What's your definition of failure and has it changed over time?

Bernard: Well, the saying the wrong things in the wrong moment on the wrong place. I think that I'm very good. I'm very good. Um, I talking so quickly and I forget sometimes to put my brain and, and, uh, and, um, of course, uh, that's, I think that's, that's, uh, really, uh, not good. And, um, and maybe also, um, in the last. A couple of years now, we had all this gender, uh, situation or sometimes you are not sure [00:21:00] how you should present someone, uh, he or her, or, and, um, I remember, I think that was last year, um, I present someone like a male performer.
And it was a female performer. And, uh, in the moment, the person didn't say anything, but after this person was really mad and I was really confused why I couldn't, I was, I was really sure that this person was a male dancer and, and it wasn't. And, and today I'm so careful now. Uh, and I, I ask him sometimes even a list, but I, I really sometimes, I don't know.
I have no idea now. Yeah. But some people decide also. I guess maybe a funny story about this. We had a [00:22:00] male dancer for, I think, two or three years who came regularly here. And one day he came back and he say that he is a female dancer now, and nothing changed. So it was, it was really confusing. And in the moment I was, ah, you're joking and everything.
He said, no, no, it's serious. And I was like, voila. So, so, okay. That's things like a director of a structure. You can't do this for artists. This is unacceptable. But in the same time today, it's really, really difficult. But I think, yeah, it's good. You're right to ask a list and to ask pronouns and. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Léa: Um, what's your definition of success? And has it changed with time?

Bernard: I think the definition is when I'm connecting with the audience, of course, together with, uh, with the dancers, the connection for the [00:23:00] audience to the audience for me, very important, but also that I'm connecting, of course, also, uh, with the dancer, of course, in the audience, seeing the smile in the end of the show.
And when they, when the applause and they stand up and. And they're really happy and they come to you and they say, yeah, okay, fantastic. And the changes came, I think, today. Um, I think it's more the quality than the quantity. I think that's the very important thing. I think, um, yeah, the quality of the work and, and, and what, what is work supposed to be?
And is it honest? Is it something really you have to say? Is there an urgent need to say what you say on stage? I think that's for me, uh, the success. Hmm. Yeah, any massive creative or artistic fuck up something you [00:24:00] made a project you were a part of a task you responded to something that just completely failed.

Léa: You mentioned this project with this team that you changed, but anything that happened to you. As a maker. 

Bernard: Yeah, as a maker. Um, I'm a quite individualist. I'm, I'm, I'm a really a bit egoistic. I have to say, when I do a work, I, I want to do everything in the same time by myself. No, no, no. I, I always think I have to do that myself.
It's, it's not. And then, um, And then sometimes, of course, you get propositions to do cooperations, and that's not so easy all the time, and I had, um, for, for, for a couple of years, I had a cooperation with a director, and, um, he was, um, he was very into musicals, to do musicals, but more contemporary musicals, not so, not so much just classical musicals, and, and And, um, yeah, we start with one and it was a very nice experience.
And we [00:25:00] do a second one already. It was really difficult. And then we did it. We did, we had a huge one. I will not say the name and also not the name of the musical, but, and then everything's fantastic. I had really good actors who want to dance. They were really young people who want to really, you know, some had study in London. So they came back, they had really a movement body also, and they want really to do. And then you have another part of this old, not old, more ages, who just want to put their hand on the shoulder when they say something and then moving from left to right and not doing so much. But everything starts very nice with the young.
Well, in the beginning I was working a lot with these young actors and they were really happy and we did a lot of material, preparing a lot of material. And then of course I had the whole crew for a moment on stage and there was a generation clash, just impossible, in between the youngest and [00:26:00] the more major actor.
And, and it was, it became a hell. And then the main character, who for me was a really difficult, uh, person, um, was not so good and he was more engaged for his name and for in reputation in another field than for acting talent. So I had to work with this person and he was. So arrogant. And so, and I couldn't, I, for me, from the first moment on, I say, okay, what, what can I do?
And so I try to, to negotiate all this with the director and we try really to make something out of this work. And And yeah, for me, this work was a big frustration. Well, in the end, nobody was happy. And the whole project was not a huge success. Also, in the end, what is, yeah, this negative energy all the time, is that in the end, nobody really want to do it.
And okay. And we, we try to bring up the group and we try to do [00:27:00] the best of it, but everything was too much. It was too much set, too much costume, too much people on stage. Um, And my work is much more minimalistic. And of course here that was a nova over too much of everything. And then I came with my minimalistic ideas and yeah, well, and then you put one frustration after the other and then in the end they say, okay, that was the last one,
That's uh, and I couldn't work again with someone after that as the director of a national structure. I think let's, let's talk about these as well. Like the success and the failure. 

Léa: Are you able to sort of like share with us the success you're super proud about and the failure you've learned from? 

Bernard: Oh, yeah. Well, I, well, basically I, for me, there's no failure. Yeah. There's always something to learn or whatever you do. And. And there's a big secret. In the end, the show will be on stage. Whatever happens, the show will be on stage. [00:28:00] And, um, yeah. And, um, I don't think, um, I see anything like a failure for me. The more important as a director is that the artists who come here in our house are satisfied with how they are welcome, how the situation is.
Of course, sometimes it's difficult. Also, sometimes you have difficult artists. And, um, and basically I choosing the artist who works in the house. very careful. If I have just, uh, the smallest feeling, okay, this will not work, I stop immediately the collaboration. Well, well, um, I think time is too short to, to really have just difficult people, people who don't know what they want and what they want to do.
And, and, and my experience say me more, the artists are [00:29:00] difficult, less the work will be interesting. Hmm. 

Léa: Without naming any names as well, have you ever regretted supporting or programming an artist?

Bernard: No, there's no regret. I never looked back and I always look front. There's no regret. Everything is, and, and, and like I say, there was never, for me, at least for me, it was never a, a major failing. Uh, always in the end we did it and it was fine. And, and, and sometimes I'm not sure about something and I say, oh, this gonna be a difficult night.
This will not work. And then we have a standing order. audition in the end of the show and they say, okay, I'm wrong. And, and, and, uh, uh, and I accept that not, I don't have to like everything. I think I just have to recognize the quality of the work. And should we share this work with an audience? But personally, I don't have to like everything I see.
And, uh, [00:30:00] and that's important. And also I have to feel; is the work, and it can be even an emergent artist. Is this work something who could really bring dance forward? And that's more important. I have to, I have to find out. And, and I, I could remember emergent artists, they did the first work and I was amazed after the first work.
And today they are famous. 

Léa: What do you think is the space for failure in the creative process? 

Bernard: We need space for failure. That's, of course, everybody have a right to fail. That's the first thing. And that's also why here we, we introduced this, um, uh, research program where people can come and just take a studio and, you know, In the past, we were also able to finance a lot of this.
Now it's the Minister of Culture who do that. But, [00:31:00] um, yeah, for us it is really important that people try our things and they fail maybe. Personally, I never saw a failure in my life. I never saw an artist who failed, who was here to work. Well, always it came something out. In the end, they was presenting something.
They, they share something. And, um, it was always interesting. And, um, if, if, if they want to go on or not, in the end with this work, that's not, On my table, they have to decide that, and they have to decide for themselves, is this a valuable thing to go on? I, of course, I can push them, say, okay, now you have, you, you have something there, or you have to develop, and this is really something, I believe in it, and therefore some artists Maybe you say, okay, look, I think you had a good idea, but maybe try another way to come back to this idea.
Maybe that's not the right way to do it. And I, for me, it's always, if, if the artist is [00:32:00] honest, it will be really good. If they pretend something, that's already, that's a failure for me. 

Léa: Yeah. Yeah. Do you, would you say a creative process is a success anyway then? 

Bernard: Mm hmm. Yeah, of course, a creative process to go from A to the end is a success if, and of course, sometimes it's difficult to come to an end, people want to stop, people regret decisions, uh, people think they are wrong, they are bad, and they start to cry, and, no.
Just go on, whatever happened, go till the end. If you don't go to the end, you will always regret it. Go finish the work till the end and you will not regret it. I love that. Um, right. 

Léa: Let's move to one of my favorite part of the conversation. It's about feedback. [00:33:00] Do you remember what's the worst thing someone's ever said to you about your work? And that could be your work as a dancer, as a choreographer, as a director. 
Bernard: Oh yeah, I remember, um, I did once a piece about the book Solaris from Stanislas Vlam. In that time, I was afraid about nothing. I did, I took that book, I had no idea about this book. I just read it and I was fascinated. I had no idea that And the main people already work on that book and did fantastic films and tear to piece installations, everything.
And I was like very young and naive in that time saying, Oh, I discover a fantastic book. So, and I decided to, to, to start research. And then I find out that actually a lot of people was in behind this already. And a lot of people did, but I decided to do it. Um, [00:34:00] incredible, minimalistic experience for the people who read Stanislav Lem.
Basically nothing happened. Everything is in emotion and situations and so on. So how to bring that in dance? You should dance. And not that, just, just hanging around, looking at each other and, and, and see what happened. And it was really a situation, uh, piece. And I did this piece and I was, um, yeah, I was quite happy.
It was in three parts. It was really in a big stage in the south of Luxembourg. And, um, the next morning I wake up and, uh, I, uh, I do the radio popped up and the critics of this piece was talking about my work and she was not talking very good about it. And in the end, the last word, She say was No. And ice was in the [00:35:00] moment.
I was a bit like, oh, still not really wake up. And I say, and I say, oh, who cares? I like it.

Léa: Mm. Do you remember the best feedback about your work? 

Bernard: I think the best feedback was about, one of my last work was a rain. And in the, on the premiere rain, a person came to me and say, well, this piece is so short. You should do a, uh, an hour piece out of the full size. I say, this piece is 55 minutes. And she was so amazed by it.
She was thinking the piece was 30 minutes. And I think one of the best critics for a piece, if people had feeling, this is just, time is fly and it's just half an hour piece. And, and she saw a 55 minute piece. Yeah. Nice. Is there like, um, A most inspiring quote or advice you keep close to your heart and that might help you keep going.
Yeah, I [00:36:00] think I say it already. In the end, the show will be on stage. I think whatever happened, and that's also what I say to the youngest choreographer. You can imagine the drama happens when you have emerging choreographer in the house and, and you should coach them and everything. But that's in the end what happened.
This piece will be on stage and people will see it and they will like it or not, whatever. But in the end, something gonna happen. 

Léa: What, what would you say is your biggest learning experience as an artist? 

Bernard: Um, I think that, um, you will be all the time in the learning process. And if you are in this, uh, eternally learning process, you will be a good artist.
I think this is, um, I'm very careful with self [00:37:00] confidence. Too much self confidence could be not so good, uh, for your work. But trust your instinct. I think that's more important. The instinct, of course, that something is, is not so very clear. What is instinct? And, um, but, um, most of the time, the first idea is the best idea, or the first, uh, decision is the best decision.
Maybe if sometimes it's not right, but, but instinct, I think that's the valuable thing for artists. 

Léa: Yeah, I completely agree with that. Is there anything you want to add on these topics of success and failure? And before we move on to the quickfire questions?
Bernard: Maybe seek for something you never explore yet and never look back. Always look forward. What happened happened and is [00:38:00] past. It's too late. You were wrong on stage. You did the wrong part on stage. Who cares? Nobody sees it anyway. So, uh So, uh, so yeah, it's too late. You can't change it. So don't, don't, don't, don't, uh, waste your time with, with things who already are past. So go forwards. Just look to the front. 

Léa: Nice. Right. You know the game. Like I'm going to say like two or three things and then. The aim for you, the game for you will be to try and reply as quick as you can. You can change your mind, people go back and forth, so yeah, there's no right or wrong. Go! Yeah? Great, let's go.

Léa: Process, product, or ideas? 

Bernard: Process. 

Léa: Instinct, intuition, or checked facts? 

Bernard: Intuition. 

Léa: Reflection, or impulse? [00:39:00] 

Bernard: Impulse. 

Léa: Success or failure? 


Bernard: Success and failure. 

Léa: Nice. Stage or site specific? 

Bernard: Stage. 

Léa: Art, useless or useful? 

Bernard: Useful.

Léa: Pilates, yoga or ballet?

Bernard: Yoga. 

When creating, music on or off? 

Bernard: Off.

Léa: If you weren't an artist, what job would you do?

Bernard: No job!

Léa: Step on the right or step on the left?

Bernard: both sides!

Léa: The right step or a mistake?

Bernard: mistakes. 

Léa: Nice. That's it.

Bernard: Great. So that's, that's, that's interesting. I have to reflect about all [00:40:00] this now. And you let me know and we can have another one. Clear. 

Léa: Thank you, Bernard. I'm going to stop the recording and then we can say goodbye. 
Thank you. Bye. Bye.