The Lipstick Pickup Podcast with Emily Vardaman Walters
A lipstick pickup is an electric guitar pickup with a captivating sound and appearance that has a devoted cult following that grows with each passing year. True to their name, they were originally chrome lipstick tubes stuffed with magnets and electronics that were the inspired invention of Nathan Daniel, founder of Danelectro. Born from his genius instinct for innovation as well as his devotion to a "rigid cost control" philosophy, they were an essential component of the guitars that helped stoke an affordable rock-n-roll revolution.
The Lipstick Pickup Podcast is an amateur (but very inspired), unscripted, rarely edited conversation devoted to the entirety of the subject. Hosted by Emily Vardaman Walters, The Lipstick Pickup Podcast is a fan-friendly primer on the subject of Danelectro guitars and their impact on the history of popular music of all genres.
The Lipstick Pickup Podcast with Emily Vardaman Walters
The Call of The Wild with NYC Park Ranger and Guitarist Rob Mastrianni | The Lipstick Pickup Ep. 32
NYC Park Ranger/Guitarist Rob Mastrianni returns to The Lipstick Pickup Podcast to help Emily wrap up her Big Year and discuss the Naturalist's approach to music and gear.
Chapters
00:00
Introduction to the Lipstick Pickup Podcast
02:34
Rob Mastrianni: The Electric Sitar Enthusiast
05:12
Memorable Performances and Venues
05:38
The Beauty of Nature and Birdwatching
08:28
The Allure of Lipstick Pickup Guitars
11:26
Exploring the Harp Guitar
14:15
Inspiration from Michael Hedges
17:03
The Resurgence of Harp Guitars
19:55
The Joy of Busking and Performing
22:47
Future Plans and Collaborations
25:34
The Journey to Jerry Jones' Guitar Shop
28:12
The Legacy of Jerry Jones Guitars
29:54
Exploring Electric Sitar Sounds
32:50
Recording Techniques with Sitar Instruments
35:42
The Influence of Different Guitars on Music
38:29
Accidental Guitar Purchases
43:46
Birdwatching and Music: A Unique Connection
44:43
Birdwatching in New York City
48:41
The Fascinating World of Bird Migration
51:31
The Importance of Bird Banding
52:44
Birds of Prey: Nature's Predators
55:29
The Opportunistic Bald Eagle
58:22
The Competitive World of Birdwatching
01:00:59
Birdwatching Etiquette and Conservation
01:03:33
The Musical Connection to Birds
01:09:45
The Joy of Birdwatching and Conservation Efforts
01:16:28
Lipstick Pickup_Outro_31sec.mp4
That sounds like the call of the wild.
SPEAKER_04:Hello, this is the Lipstick Pickup Rare Bird Hotline.
SPEAKER_00:Hey, Emily, this is Rob calling from New York City. You got any rare birds down there?
SPEAKER_04:New York City Park Ranger?
SPEAKER_00:That's me.
SPEAKER_04:I'm a rare bird and you are too. Welcome back to the Lipstick Pickup Podcast. Rob Masriani.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, great to be here. As you know, I'm a huge fan of lipstick tubes and I love what you're doing with the podcast, you know. Just um just showcasing that amazing um, you know, musical technology and tone. You know, it's all about the tone. It looks cool. Lipstick tubes are the coolest looking pickups.
SPEAKER_04:Yes. It has been almost a year since I had you on my podcast the first time. I believe it was in January of 2025. My big year got on to a big start with Rob Maastrianni. I'm gonna introduce him to my listeners again and remind them that I met my Rob Maastrian in online on the internet on the uh rare bird hotline modern day in winter 2021 via hashtags. He is a resident of New York in the island of Manhattan, and he is a New York City park ranger, and he is also a longtime electric sitar lipstick pickup birding enthusiast. And we met each yeah, we met each other on Instagram. I learned so much from you uh about these instruments, about the history of them. You have been one of my longest standing and most helpful park rangers. Or as I like to say, Electric Citar University. Uh, you were the first man I met on campus.
SPEAKER_00:That's a fun campus, that's right. Yes, we did meet through the hashtag, I think it was electric citar or choral citar on Instagram, and then we met in person when I was playing a gig at Marshall Stack during the lockdown times. So they had me playing in the window while people who were outside of the venues because no one was allowed in venues and stuff, all that craziness. But yeah, so that's when we met, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:But I've seen you perform, that's now been over four years ago, and I've seen you perform all over the city in many capacities, and some of them are some of my most fond New York memories. I have to tell you that uh uh I've seen you in so many places. The wonderful Russian place I used to see you. It was called Anyway Cafe.
SPEAKER_00:Yep, Anyway Cafe, yeah. It was uh you know, classic East Village um New York City um spot hangout for like um musicians, like poets, writers, cinematographers. So it was a great little hub, you know, one of the last ones, you know. And that was there since the nineties, you know. And it closed unfortunately in was it 2023 with the winter of 23 or 24? So yeah, we missed that place. So that was like a little hub or you know, for musicians to hang out and play. And yeah, great staff there.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, a shout out to you for turning me on to that place because not only did I get to see you perform on several occasions, one of them was extremely memorable. The first time I went, I had some of the greatest uh what do you call blinces or creps.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, great food there.
SPEAKER_04:Also, all of your tribal dance buddies showed up and put on one incredible floor show.
SPEAKER_00:It's everywhere through a uh a belly dance party there once a week, you know, what I would play, and then there would be different styles of belly dancers or flamenco dancers.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. It's a tiny little spot, by the way. It was um, I don't know, it may be six or seven hundred square feet at the most with the little patio. And I had some memorable nights there watching you perform, and then I also saw you at a variety show at the secret room in Hell's Kitchen. My husband Kevin was with me, and I was actually going back through my phone the other day and looking at videos of that night, and boy, that was something to see. I looked at the videos and I said, I keep reading about this thing called the lip male loneliness epidemic, and I think any of these males that are lonely should go to the secret room and watch Bob. And your friend uh on beatbox, what is his name that you perform with?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, my friend Pete Pete List, yeah, human beatboxer. Yeah, he's incredible vocal percussionist, yeah. Yeah, so that was uh we had a project or a duo called beatbox guitar, and we would play for a lot of these belly dance parties for many years. But he's out in Italy now.
SPEAKER_04:Do you I've seen you perform a bunch? I've seen your apartment. I had to see your perch up there on um what is the area that you call there overlooking the Hudson where you live?
SPEAKER_00:Some yeah, right on the west side by the Hudson River. Um Washton Heights and also known as Hudson Heights because some it's so close to the Hudson River. So it's got a good view of the river, the George Washington Bridge, and the Palisades cliffs. And um what I love about it, I don't have any curtains because it's just facing the river. So I could um look for raptors and birds, you know, which I do see often. I see bald eagles, I see peregrine falcons that nest on the towers of the George Washington Bridge. Um, and of course, red-tailed hawks, and I have a family of crows that live next door to me, so they can fly by my window every day. So yeah, it's a good good approach for a bird nerd.
SPEAKER_04:I I wanted to see it because I know that area in Manhattan, and it and it is beautiful, but I also wanted to see your colossal collection of lipstick pickup guitars.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, do we did we do a count of all the lipstick pickups in the apartment? I forgot, but there's a lot.
SPEAKER_04:Do you still have the same amount of guitars, or have you sold any lipstick pickup guitars since we've got all my lipstick?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think I have I still have all my lipsticks, you know. I haven't sold any of those. But yeah, many, many guitars.
SPEAKER_04:You have how many electric sitars?
SPEAKER_00:Um, let's see, I got this really nice looking blue one right here. And then the I have a green one, a red one, a white one. Um, this is a Jerry Jones. This one is probably from the the mid to late nineties. Yeah. It's a rare, rare finish. I don't know if you could see it with the lighting, but it's like a turquoise blue with a white crackle in there.
SPEAKER_04:Which are oh, I did not know that's white crackle.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, this one's got like a cream kind of crackle to it. That's badass. I love it, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:That is actually a very rare color because I've I've not seen those. And you have green.
SPEAKER_00:And then the green one has the black crackle in it.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:That's the one I perform with um a lot with the B Lap. But this one, you know, I have because you know, I found it on I guess on Reverb a couple years back, bumping into stuff. But yeah, it's a it's a beauty. I love it. I love that crackle finish. Yeah, Jerry Jones was the man. I loved all his instruments that he built. Nashville. Yeah, so um there's a lot.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, that's another thing I want to give you credit for uh in our second podcast, because you come this is a round trip, um, just like a migratory year. Uh you were the one who enabled me and also encouraged me to purchase my first one. Enabler is a very good word to use. It's uh it's all your faults, Rob Masteryani.
SPEAKER_00:I'm happy to be part of that, yeah. Decision making.
SPEAKER_04:I still have them, and um the the list has grown to six of them. And um speaking of Call of the Wild, I do hear that people say that these guitars belong in the hands of people who play them, and I want people to know that I have a couple of them for sale. I have a Jerry Jones uh baby sitar that Rob is the reason I bought that one. He's the one who encouraged me to buy that one. Your fault. And then I'll also have a uh Vinny Bell one for sale that I need that I want to sell. So we'll we'll plug that on here. I've got a yeah, it's all original in beautiful condition, except for one tuner that's been replaced. I've got that for sale. Cool. Hey, do you have anything for sale that you want to pimp?
SPEAKER_00:Um, I might have a Jerry Jones 12 string. It's a beautiful one. It's the red one, it's like the you know, Jimmy Page style, the short horn. Um, yeah, I could bust it out maybe a little bit, but yeah. I might sell it. But I don't know. I like holding on to the Jerry Jones stuff, you know, since he retired. My collection kind of grew after 2011 with my Jerry Jones um guitars.
SPEAKER_04:It's true.
SPEAKER_00:There was one on there was one on reverb I was eyeing. It was one of those little shorties. It was a longhorn shorty, 12 string, it's a short scale, kind of like a mandolin. It was in copper burst, it was beautiful. It was just on reverb last week, and I I didn't I didn't I didn't bite. I was gone. I was like, all right let me wait a day and then it was gone.
SPEAKER_04:Do you mind if I ask how much it was if you remember?
SPEAKER_00:I think it was it was going for like two thousand. Yeah. Yeah. Or twenty-two. I'm sure there's those are rare. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, those I'm sure there's some people who look at that and go, why use that guitar two thousand dollars? But you think it's you what you think it's worth two thousand dollars, thank you.
SPEAKER_00:Oh yeah, yeah, because they're so rare now and hard to come by.
SPEAKER_04:So I know that one. It sounds like a mandolin. That little short one. I I've had people send me videos of them playing that one, and it is rare. It's a very rare Jerry Jones, and also a unique instrument.
SPEAKER_00:Right, yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01:It's a long horn and it's sawed off.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_01:And it sounds like a mandolin.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, very chimey. And I've seen uh like uh Salsa guys in Salsa bands use it because it's similar to like the you know the sound you know used in Salsa, though, what do you call it? The quattro. Yeah on the double chorused um little mini guitars that they use for that music and it and it does the same kind of it cuts through with that same frequency, you know? Yeah, as that instrument with the doubled string. So yeah. I love it. Yeah, it's it's a beauty. Mando. But yes.
SPEAKER_04:Anyway, you've been uh we've been friends for nearly five years now. That actually would be five years, as long as I've been working on this thing. You got me off to a my big year off to a great start when we recorded a podcast in January of last year, and you had a new record to talk about then, Airwaves. I've listened to it a lot this year, and I really love it.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, thank you. Yeah, that was a fun album to me. Um yeah, it was a little ambitious. I recorded 17 songs and put them all on one album instead of breaking it up through the year. But I was excited the way it sounded from start to finish, you know, kind of like taking the listener on a journey, you know. That was the goal. Yeah, so it's good driving music. If you're out driving out in the southwest or something, you start that album. If you have a long road trip, it's a good one, good soundtrack for the road.
SPEAKER_04:It's very nature oriented, the sound of the record, and that's why it is a great driving record. You know, it sounds like nature, and you're very connected in nature. You're not you're a New York City park ranger and you work in nature, and that's also one of your uh for lack of a better word, inspirations behind music is you know, nature, and so it's it's a full migratory year since we talked last, and that's why I wanted to book in this year with a return to you because you continue to get increasingly interested in these harp guitars, which I find fascinating. And as we pointed out before, the electric sitar was your gateway dra. Yeah, to these extra strings here gateway drap guitars.
SPEAKER_00:That is true. So this one, um, so right now in New York City, it's getting very cold, and my apartment's kind of cold. So a lot of my instruments aren't staying in tune too good at the moment, but this one is because this one's made out of carbon fiber, and it's got 20 strings. So you got the guitar in the middle, just a regular guitar, standard tuning. Then you got what's called super trebles here, eight. So you could, you know, do all kinds of stuff like then over here you got the sub-bass harp. So these you hit with your thumb. And this is called a hollow arm. So this part is hollow. Some people think it's a it's a double neck, but it's not a double neck. This is called an arm, even though it looks like a long leg, sexy leg or something.
SPEAKER_04:I guess somebody would would look at that and go, oh, it's a double neck, but it's not. Right.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:See, that's the hollow arm, so that's the the bass side. So this is an instrument that someone who likes to spend a lot of time alone will get.
SPEAKER_06:Because you don't need a you don't need a band.
SPEAKER_00:So that kind of stuff. It's a lot of fun because you get your right hand moving a lot. And uh yeah, so I've been spending a lot of time with this instrument, been writing a lot, so I want to put out put out a harp guitar, like solo harp guitar record, just some instrumentals, you know, that I've been working on with this instrument, all finger style. So yeah, just um in November I was at the harp guitar conference, and that's my third time going, and I believe it was their 23rd year doing it, and there's some incredible players there. This guy, Steven Bennett, he's the an incredible like award-winning finger style guitarist, internationally known, lots of records, and he's been doing it a long time, but he was one of the first guys to help get the you know popularity back with the harp guitar and creating this community of um you know this little niche you know in the guitar world. These harp guitarists from all around the world get together once a year. And this year it was in Arkansas. It was hosted by this guy, Travis Bowman. He's a great harp guitarist, great finger style guy. And yeah, it was just very inspiring to be around all these people, you know. You had Steven Bennett, Antoine Dufar was there. He he played an amazing set and did a little workshop. I got to perform a couple of my tunes, and yeah, it was just such a great inspiration. So yeah. And the reason why I got into this was when I was a kid, um, I had a I was a big fan of this guy, Michael Hedges, and he was like probably you know the rock star of finger style guitar in the 80s, you know. He played solo guitar, kind of you know, out of that whole new age Wyndham Hill label that was popular back then. But he was in his own, you know, you know, he had his own thing going on. He was super innovative, original sound, different alternate tunings. But anyway, he um wrote a piece called Because It's There on a Hop Guitar. Look it up on YouTube, you can see him playing it, and it's just mesmerizing you know what he did. So as a kid, I was like, oh my god, I gotta find one of those. They were super rare, you couldn't find you know it was really hard to find hop guitars.
SPEAKER_04:When you say a kid, you mean what age? Because I'm curious when you bought your first one.
SPEAKER_00:So no, this is like, you know, when probably in 12, 13, 15, yeah. And I got to see him when I was like 15 years old, um, play at the bottom line. And then I saw him every year, you know, when he was on tour, he would stop at the bottom line, which is a legendary club that was in the West Village, great sound system, and he would do two sets. And I was this kid who would get there early, sit up close, you know. Um, luckily they let me in, you know. I guess they were all ages shows back then, you know. It was like a supper club, you know. And I would go with a couple friends from Brooklyn, and yeah, we would just be mesmerized by him just playing solo guitar and harp guitar, and he sang too. Um incredible, yeah. It's a great inspiration, Michael Hedges.
SPEAKER_04:I saw him once.
SPEAKER_00:Oh wow. Where did you get to see him?
SPEAKER_04:In uh I saw him at the Variety Playhouse in Atlanta, Georgia, and I still have this ticket stub.
SPEAKER_00:Nice. Do you remember what year that was?
SPEAKER_04:I do because mainly because I went I went with a date, and my boyfriend, who was an aspiring guitar player, loved Michael Hedges, and he took me. It probably as much as I enjoyed it, it's probably a show I wouldn't have been the you know the catalyst for going. And so I remember this would be 1993. It was one of our first dates. That's great. And um yeah, that was uh I I remember the performance more fondly than I remember that guy, Solomon.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, that's cool. Just kidding.
SPEAKER_04:That's mean, but uh yeah, I saw my Michael Hedges at the variety playhouse. That's great.
SPEAKER_00:Small theater kind of that must have been amazing, yeah. So yeah, so he like you know helped spark this whole interest in the harp guitar again because this instrument, you know, they were built in Europe and Italy and Germany, this kind of style, you know, and then uh kind of disappeared. But it you know, it started to make a resurgence in the late 1800s, early 1900s. Gibson would make a harp guitar, um, and there would be these uh mandolin orchestras where they had you know mandolins, mandolcellos, and a harp guitar that Gibson would make. And it was in all their catalogs up until probably 1920s or 1912, I can't remember. But yeah, so it was part of American history too. And so, yeah, so growing up, yeah, it was hard to find these instruments, but I would say the past um I don't know, 15 years, there's a lot more Luthier is building them all around the country, all around the world. Um, I think thanks to like YouTube videos by like guys like Andy McKee, he um helped like also bring a whole new generation of harp guitar you know fans, and that sparked Luthier is building them. So this one here is built by Emerald Guitar. They're based out in Ireland in Donegal, and he's really the guy Alistair Hay, he's really innovative because he used this um you know carbon fiber because that's a lot of tension with all these strings you know in the body. But what's cool is there's a wooden veneer, so it looks like it's wood, it's got a flame maple wooden veneer, which I love. It kind of looks like a Les Paul style top. So yeah, so uh and it stays in tune really well just because it's you know it's carbon fiber, and then this is more of a traditional one. This one, my buddy um makes this one. It's tone double guitars, and um, this one's got nylon strings, and this is like um more of a traditional like looking shape to it that they would make, and it's uh modeled after the Symphony Harp guitar, the Dyer harp guitar, and made by the Larson brothers, and that was um uh Meet Out West, yeah. I can't remember where, but um, the St. Louis, and they also made them out in the northwest coast too. Um yeah, during the 1920s. So yeah, I have a question. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:When we first started talking, you were telling me it's cold in your apartment and that you some of your guitars are temperamental right now, but that one that's carbon fiber.
SPEAKER_00:This one.
SPEAKER_04:The one you were just holding is the one that is.
SPEAKER_00:I have a little tuning issue, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER_00:I have to fix that one. Or, you know, once it warms up in here, I'll probably be okay. But this one, yeah, no problem with the tuning. So, yeah, I could plug it in too. Let's see what it sounds like. So I can play a short little piece if you want. Yeah. If you want to hear a little something. Let's see.
SPEAKER_04:Pull one my harp strings.
SPEAKER_00:Let's see. This one's kind of fun to do because this is when I incorporate all the strings, you know, in this one. The bass and the trebles and the guitar part. Of what it could do. It's such a fun instrument. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:You travel with a harp guitar, do you always want to take that carbon fiber one?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, this one's a great travel guitar for sure. I mean, it's big, but you know, I usually bring it if it's in the overhead, if they're nice. Yeah, if there isn't, you know, full flight. But yeah, no, it's pretty sturdy and yeah. Yeah, it's uh like I said, a lot of fun to play. It's a whole other universe. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:I was when I was at your apartment, your apartment, you had one that was designed to pack away well. Is that the one? Oh yes.
SPEAKER_00:I still have that one.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, okay, yeah, great. No need to show it to me, but that was an impressive feat, too.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's what that one's a lot of fun. I think you have a video of me taking it apart and putting it back together. Yeah, that one is incredible. It fits into a little backpack, and that one's built by um uh Lucas Brunner out in Switzerland, and that was built for Muriel Anderson, who's an incredible fingerstyle guitarist. She's based out in Nashville. She's part of the harp guitar scene, so yeah. So if you look her up, yeah, you'll see a lot of great harp guitar videos of her. But yeah, I actually bought it from her back in 2023, and that was interesting.
SPEAKER_04:How many harp guitars do you have?
SPEAKER_00:Um, so let's see. Right now I have the this one, I have a backup one of this, the Tone Devil from Dave Powell and his brother Tone make that one out in Idaho. Um what else? Yeah, and then the one, the travel one. Oh, and I have one that I got a couple years back. Um, it's like kind of like the entry level one by Timberline. So yeah. So I don't know what is that five four. No, five, I guess.
SPEAKER_04:Right now, this one really has your when I say this one, you have a lot of different guitars and you've used them to perform and also use them to record. And right now the harp guitar really has your heart for a lot.
SPEAKER_00:Right, yeah, it definitely does.
SPEAKER_04:It kind of has your attention right now. I can see a building.
SPEAKER_00:Right, yeah, because it's just a cool instrument. You know, I always looked up to like piano players, how they could just sit and just play alone and play all this sound, you know. So I think of that with this guitar, because you know, you have such a wide range, like a piano, you know, from the low end all the way up to the high octave, you know.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So you could really get creative, you know. And you know, when it's nice out in the spring and all the birds are singing, I'll sit in the park or in the woods somewhere with this instrument and just like get inspired by everything, you know, that's around, you know, where I am sitting, and it's just, you know, you have all this sound you can carry on your back, you know.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Whenever I go out busking when it's nice out, I'll sit and play, you know, outside in the park or, you know, out by the subway stations. And yeah, uh, it's hard to get through a whole song because people will stop and ask you questions, like, what is that? Where is that from? What is that instrument? Yeah. And it's always fun to see that enthusiasm and reaction when someone sees a different instrument like this. You're like, what planet is that from? It is really wild.
SPEAKER_04:When are you gonna come busk in Nashville?
SPEAKER_00:Oh man, I would love to. I gotta do it. Let's make it yeah, let's make it happen, you know. Soon. Maybe the spring. When's a good time to come down?
SPEAKER_04:I think the spring is a wonderful time in Nashville because we have a lot of cherry trees and blooming trees that are beautiful in the springtime. Nashville really is. It's a wonderful season, and I've been get trying to get you to come here. You've been here before.
SPEAKER_00:A long time ago, yeah, when I was like 15 years old. It was my high school girlfriend. Yeah, had an uncle out there. Oh, still he still lives there.
SPEAKER_04:Well, you got family, and I want my listeners to know that when Rob came here before he made a pilgrimage to Jerry Jones guitar shop. That's right. You showed me a picture of yourself. You're in front of Jerry Jones guitar shops. And as you know, Jerry Jones is retired, but he's very much alive, and I know where he lives, and maybe if you come to Nashville, we'll go knock on his door.
SPEAKER_00:Go visit. That'll be great. But it was so funny because you know, back then there was no no website or no internet, you know. So I had his, you know, his brochures that I would get from Carmine Street guitars, because I ordered the Jerry Jones through Rick at Carmine Street. He was one of the dealers, local dealers here in New York City. So I had a baritone I ordered. I ordered the three pickup short horn, like the Jimmy Page style one in black and white, then the guitar lin I got, and then I found the electric sitar, which I actually found on 48th Street. It was the old row of music shops, you know, like Rudy's, Sam Ash, Manny's. But it was in the window, it was all it's an all-white one with the maps and headstock, yeah. So I saw it and had some money from work and saved up from working at the Subway Sandwich Shop in my neighborhood and actually bought it. It was like$900 back then, which was a lot of money. This is probably 94 or 95. That was a lot of money. Yeah. So I can't remember what exactly. Probably it was 94. Anyway, so um, yeah, so that summer when I went down there, yeah, I just kind of looked at the brochure and I looked, I saw the address. You know, I would call him once in a while as a fan, and you know, ask him questions about it. And yeah, he was really nice, you know, take he would take time and talk, you know. You know, talk about some instrument ideas I had, you know. And I was back then I was always thinking about harp guitars too, you know, because he had he made some double necks, you know, with the six-string bass and the guitar. And I was saying, Oh, it's similar to these harp guitars that I like. But like I said, no one was building them, you know, back then. Not many people at least. Yeah. So yeah. So it was great. It was kind of funny that we took the picture. He wasn't there. I guess they were closed for vacation that day, or they're you know, they were in the shop, but yeah, it'd have been cool if they were there and I got to go inside, you know, check it out.
SPEAKER_04:That's so awesome. Shout out uh and review to Carmine Street Guitars, Rick Kelly. You and my friend Eric Anball have both told me that I needed to go in there, and I'd made several visits to them in the last couple of years, he and Cindy there. And I asked Rick Kelly, how in the world did you start to happen to sell Jerry Jones guitars up here? And he told me he came and knocked on my door one day and and uh asked uh, you know, if if I would carry his guitars or be interested in being a dealer, and that's when I think I really started to um revere Jerry Jones because he's not only a great craftsman, but that takes a lot of hustle to get up there and knock on doors and you know, he's from Jackson, Mississippi, just like me.
SPEAKER_00:Right. That's so cool.
SPEAKER_04:Go up to New York and talk to these guitar dealers and say, Hey, we will you saw my guitar? So I really love that story. That's awesome.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I love it.
SPEAKER_04:You buying your first one from Rick Kelly. Rick Kelly was a dealer of Jerry Jones guitars. I guess the reason why I want to give him so much of a shout out is that when I think about the ones that are owned up there, I think to myself, Rick Kelly probably had a lot to do with uh putting Jerry Jones guitars in the hands of a lot of people.
SPEAKER_06:Oh yeah. Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_04:And that's you know, amazing because they were made here in Nashville. So and this is before the the internet, you know, before people are buying and selling guitars online so much.
SPEAKER_00:Right, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Speaking of which, he's just plugged in on one of many. He's got a flock, it's not a yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Do you have a flock of electric citars for sure?
SPEAKER_04:He has a flock of electric sitars, and this is that your blue one?
SPEAKER_00:This is the blue one, yes. I have them tuned differently, the sympathetic strings here, so you can see they're tuned with a wrench. So I have three of them in different, you know, three or four of them in different tunings. So this one is kind of like an E minor tuning right now. Um, the green one's not cooperating today, but that's good so that it doesn't want to stay in tune today, but it's alright. This one's in tune. But yeah, so this one. I just love that tone. You know, just it's so simple. It's a you know, fully hollow body, masonite. You got these, which are supposed to be sympathetic resonance, but you know, that was a little different because I like to pick finger pick them. A lot of people ignore these strings on the instrument, or they tune it chromatically and just do it once in a while. But what the way I play, I kind of incorporate it into like finger picking melodies with these, like a harp, kind of like you said, the gateway to the harp guitar. And it almost reminds me of the sound of a world. So when you put a little tremolo and reverb on it, like a you know, whirl, it's a piano. So it's so much fun to play these things. So yeah, it's always fun to play these. Yeah, yeah, just the sound of those sympathetic strings. I just love it, you know.
SPEAKER_04:It almost seems like bells ringing.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, I can see that. Yeah, yeah. Bells around. Yeah. So I wish the green wasn't in tune because yeah, I have a lot more tunes on that one. But this is cool. I'm gonna work on some new tunes with this one actually, and this tuning. Yeah, it's a lot of fun to mess around with this one. But yeah, yeah, I can never get tired of the sound of an electric guitar. Okay, because oh, yeah, one thing when I was talking to Jerry Jones about it, you know, you know, when I was a kid when I called up his uh shop, and he's like, Okay, make sure you don't use it on every song, you might drive people crazy. He said something like that. Too late. I thought that was hilarious.
SPEAKER_04:Well, you drove me crazy. Um, I'll have a question for you as a musician and a longtime collector of these instruments. When you're recording, what what do you feel the difference between Jerry Jones baby sitar? And I'll point out to you that thanks to you, I have one, the Jerry Jones baby sitar is solid. And also, thanks to you, and here's another reason why you got to get your ass to Nashville. Look at that.
SPEAKER_00:Ian Williams. The NEPCO, yeah, that's so cool. I can't wait to meet that guitar. Yeah, it looks so cool.
SPEAKER_04:In many ways, you are responsible for this guitar because you and I were talking about it, and then I heard from Ian Williams, and you've got to play this. It's got two pickups, so it's somewhere between the baby one and the master with no sympathetic strings. And I've seen a lot of other people play it, and it's got great range because it's got two pickups designed to go together that were made by Rio Grande pickups. And um, anyway, you gotta play this one. But I'm curious what you think about the difference between the baby and the master in recording.
SPEAKER_00:Sure, yeah, I I love using them both in the recordings. Um I did use the baby one a lot in my album Airwaves for like overdubs. And it has more of like a snarly kind of sound because only one lipstick tube pickup and it's all the way by the bridge, you could see behind you. Um, so it's gets more of a trebly sound, but also um because it's a solid body, it gets more of like a kind of whirly kind of sound with that buzz bridge. Um and it sounds really badass with some fuzz and distortion, yeah. You get some really fun sounds on that one. And then the the master one's more you know of a yeah, it gets a more whirly kind of citrury sound because it's solid. But the master one is hollow, so it gets more percussive and and uh like a fuller sound. But the baby one's good for layering parts, you know, because it kind of like really stands out in the mix, you know.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But and then same with the master, but it's a little more of a full, full-bodied sound, I would say. So it's the baby's closer to like the frequency of a telecaster, you know, on the bridge pickup. Because it kind of cuts through real snarly, you know. I love it, you know, I love that sound. So yeah, so they're both very useful in the studio for sure.
SPEAKER_04:Glad to hear your take on that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Oh, if you listen to one of my tunes on Airwaves, there's a song called uh what's it called? Strawberry Moon. And um yeah, I used the baby sitar on that one. And I also overdubbed the master sitar too on that, so you get to hear both on them on the same track.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But yeah, it gets a really snarly sound on that song, Strawberry Moon, on that album, Airwaves. So yeah.
SPEAKER_04:It's I and you use the harp guitar on airwaves too, right? On some places, in addition to a Les Paul.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Yeah, it's a lot of Les Paul on that album. Yeah, besides Jerry Jones, yeah. Yeah, I'm really into the Les Paul, and you know, have a uh R9, you know, it's a 59 reissue from the custom shop, and it's just such a spectacular instrument. So inspiring to play. You can just play like one E chord. I know a lot of guys say that and you just like you feel it, you know. But yeah, it has a different flavor, you know. That's what's good about you know, I guess collecting or having um a bunch of different guitars, that each one will bring a different feeling or a different song out of you, you know. So Les Paul brings more of the I guess the rock and roll, thin Lizzie, you know, kind of sound, you know? Um, which I love, like, you know, melodic, you know, melodies and harmonies. And then, you know, Jerry Jones and lipstick tubes bring out something twangy and different, you know. Each one's different. This one's really different, too. This is an the newest one that's like collection. This is a strange bird, really odd bird, this one. Yeah, let's hear. Let's hear it. So this one is a 1966 Moserite. Um it's a Joe Mapus um model. He was a session.
SPEAKER_04:Oh that headstock is crazy headstock.
SPEAKER_00:And look at this. And this is um called a German carve, the way they um designed this little little um top on there. It looks really classy and cool. And Mozart, he used to work for Rickenbacher guitars um before he went out on his own to make these. So I believe Rickenbacher had a similar kind of carve on their tops. This one's really interesting too. I think it's it's semi-hollow, it's got like a spruce top, which was odd for an electric. And I think that's a walnut back. But these pickups sound pretty killer. I would say second to ellipstic tubes, these ones here. They're kind of like the single coils, but they're unique, you know. Kind of similar maybe to a jazz master, but a little a lot more chimey. And the Ventures in the 60s would use these guitars too, as well as you know, Jazz Masters from Fender, but really cool instrument, yeah. So I'm getting the new one. It needs to be set up, but I could kind of play a couple chords on it.
SPEAKER_04:Was this something that was an impulse, or have you had you been tracking this bird for a while?
SPEAKER_00:Um I always had had them on my radar, and I never played one until two weeks ago when I was in Rivington Guitars in in New York City. I love that shop. I was in there just saying hello to Sam.
SPEAKER_04:Shout out to Rivington Guitars. They're always very nice to me when I go in there. Shout out to Rivington Guitars on Rivington Street.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. And uh so I was looking to buy a pedal. I got a um JHS uh delay pedal that I I needed the delay pedal for my board. So I got that, and then I used this guitar to try out the pedal, and then I accidentally bored it.
SPEAKER_04:You tripped and fell into a new guitar on Rivington Street.
SPEAKER_00:Right. But it gets that really cool, you know, old school sound. And I love this little whammy bar thingy. That sounds great. Yeah, it's got a really nice tone. These pickups really do sound incredible. So I can't wait to get to know it more. But yeah, it was an accident. I guess I don't know about impulse, it was just like I started coming up with riffs in the store, so I was like, all right, maybe I should take this home too. I didn't plan on buying it, but I did.
SPEAKER_04:It's a beauty.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it is cool.
SPEAKER_04:They always have an interesting selection in there, and their prices are great. And the reason why I feel like I have to say that, you know, I live in Nashville and I travel all around the country, and I do go to New York, and there's this perception that if you buy a guitar in a guitar shop in New York, that you're gonna pay too much for it. And that's not true. Because when I've been to Rivington and 30th and Chelsea guitars, I find their guitar prices to be in line with all the other guitar stores and that they can do that in New York where the real estate's so expensive.
SPEAKER_00:Right, that's true. Yeah. Yeah, they got some good deals there. Yeah. Yeah, they had a couple danos, I thought of you. They had a silver tone, um, amp and case model. And what else did they have? They had another like a U it was a U one, I think it was, yeah. Or U two.
SPEAKER_04:They always have a good selection of lipstick pickup guitars in there. Something, you know, silver tone or something. Love 'em.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I sold them uh Jerry Jones maybe two years ago and it sold in the shop really quickly. It was the black and white Jimmy Page one that I sold them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Maybe I should give them my Vinny Bell corals to Tar to sell.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean they might give you a good deal on it. How much are you selling it for? Or we can talk after.
SPEAKER_04:Well, no, I I'll say this because I would like to sell it. And if anybody is listening, I can talk money without talking money. If you go to Reverb and look for Vinny Bell Coral Electric Sitar in good or better shape, that's as original as mine, my price is the best of all of them. Nice.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_04:All right. Okay, so that I told, and the reason why I'm saying that is when I started telling people I was selling it, people would say, What do you want for it? And I would say this, and I think they just wanted to know what my guitar was worth.
SPEAKER_05:Right.
SPEAKER_04:And and so I I think to myself, that's kind of rude. And if you just want to know what you should pay for a Vinny Bell Coral Sitar, go to Reverb, it's all there. You'll have the the prices. And you know, one might be a great price, but it's a Milan, Italy, you know, or or something like this. And mine is the the only one that I have found for sale that is less expensive than the one that I am selling is the one that they have at Chicago Music Exchange right now. And since you uh spent a lot of time on Reverb like me.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_04:You know that it's been there for several years. It's been there for the bridge is uh altered.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's a different buzz bridge.
SPEAKER_04:It also has not the original neck.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, wow. Okay.
SPEAKER_04:And and you'll see it has a new neck, it says Dan Electro, and it doesn't mean it's not a great guitar, it just means that it's not the same value as the one that I've got, which is all original. If you I'm just saying that for mine to be in the condition that it is, I have the most compelling price out there. Um, so if you want to know how much of any bell coral sitar costs, go to Reverb. If you'd like to buy one from me, hit me up.
SPEAKER_05:Right.
SPEAKER_04:Because I've got the best deal. Okay. Here's another way. They have one at Carter Vintage right now that is a beautiful specimen, and it's as good as mine, maybe a little better. I think it's interesting that they still have the patent pending sticker on the back of it, and theirs is 20% more than the one that I'm selling. So now we've talked price, but we didn't talk price. So I would love to sell that coral sitar. I bought it just this year. I got trapped, just like Rob Mastriani does. Had to have to have one, and then I bought one, and as you well know, our mutual lipstick pickup academic, Doug Tullock, sold me one, and so now I have two.
SPEAKER_00:That's great.
SPEAKER_04:But Doug Tulk Doug Tullock sold me one that I had been pining for for some time, and now I have two Vinny Bell coral chitars, and I don't need to. And so I'm selling one. So thank you for letting me pitch it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. No, that's great.
SPEAKER_04:Anyway, um, I might deliver. I really don't want to ship it because it's vintage and I hate to take the risk. And I think if I'm in Nashville, why in the world should I have to ship a guitar?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, there's definitely someone in Nashville that's gonna want it.
SPEAKER_04:But if somebody if somebody up in New York buys it, maybe they could convince me to deliver it because you know I love I love an excuse to go to New York.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Anyway, thank you for letting me get my own gear talk uh pimping in.
SPEAKER_00:Of course, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And I told you when we started today that I wanted to talk about birds. And I know that some people might be more interested in gear than they are in birds. I'm gonna ask you, do you have any other gear talk before I ask you a few questions about birds?
SPEAKER_00:No, we could we could move into the birds.
SPEAKER_04:So uh uh Rob works as a New York City park ranger, and I'm sure you're a conservationist and a naturalist about all things. You're learning about everything from trees to all the things that you have to manage on your daily basis. But one reason why you were uniquely qualified to be a park ranger is your experience with birds of prey. Is that the word?
SPEAKER_00:Uh Falconry.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Falconry. And I I want to bring together bird watchers and music more than ever next year with this podcast. Um, I want to maybe call my next season Call of the Wild, just like we did today.
SPEAKER_05:Right.
SPEAKER_04:Because um noticing that the same people who love birds love music, they go hand in hand. I'm continuously not surprised to read about people who do illustration and bird watching to find out that they're a trombone player or a cellist, or in your case, a guitar player. And you play other instruments too, but they really do go together. And I want to ask you about what's going on in bird watching in New York, because New York is one of the greatest birding destinations in this country. New York City is one of the greatest birding. So many reasons to say that because of the vast conservation that's gone on there. You have all of that green space.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I mean, it's incredible. Yeah, just uh like Central Park is like a hub for uh migratory birds, and um was it over like 200 or 300 species will pass through, you know, and it's it's really incredible. I remember you you mentioned snowy owls, because that's the big um buzz right now out in in uh Chicago, which is awesome. But in 2021 in Central Park, we had a snowy owl that spent uh a month or so with us, and it would hang out in like one of the baseball fields, and yeah, it just attracted what a crowd, you know, of bird watchers and the press was there, everyone with their scopes and cameras, you know. But yeah, that was that was a really that was a rare one, you know. That was really cool. And I remember this is like maybe um I can't remember when it was, but it had to be like 10 years ago. Um my buddy lived in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, and he looked it was in the winter, so he looked out his window and he saw a snowy owl on the roof on the apartment building across from him, just you know, at eye level. I was like, he texted me and say, Okay, Ranger, what is this? I was like, Oh my god, it's a snowy owl. It's like it's on a rooftop in Brooklyn.
SPEAKER_04:Was the one that uh that was getting all the attention, was it male or female? They look different. Uh do you remember what it was?
SPEAKER_00:I can't remember. Yeah, I don't know.
SPEAKER_04:The males are really all white, and I think that that's just why they capture people's imagination. They're just like they look like something from wildlife fantasy. Right. And the females are mostly white too, but they have coloration on the wings.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so this one was probably female then. So I remember it had the speckled dots on it, the dark, you know, black dots. So yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Beautiful, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:I the I I don't know if you know much. Uh, do you learn much about migratory patterns in your work or um yeah, a bit, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Because we get to see the different birds that come into town, you know, in the parks that we work at. Yeah, yeah, it's incredible. Like, for instance, like over here in New York City, um, there was a ranger, a national park ranger that um put a GPS on an osprey, um, pair of ospreys, and um, so they left during the migratory season, they left the nest and they went all the way down to like Central America or Venezuela or something like that. And then um and then they both came back, you know, separately. I think the male got back first, and the female came back, yeah, and then they started nesting in in the springtime. But yeah, so they went way down there, you know, to Central America.
SPEAKER_04:It's so bird migration is so fascinating to me because it's such elevated evolutionary intelligence. People are still trying to figure out how do they do this and know and have the sense and everything. And I'm glad you mentioned the GPS because when I talk about you know what bird banding is, you could say that to a citizen and they would not know what you're talking about.
SPEAKER_05:Right.
SPEAKER_04:When I say bird banding, what do I mean when I talk about people who band birds?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so that keeps track of them. So if they're found on the ground, um they'll have this little band on their on their leg and that you know just identifies them when they got captured. It's you know, a little data log, you know, like when it was, what the month was, how you know, estimated how old the bird was, you know. Certain birds you could tell how old they are from their plumage in their first, you know, migration, especially with like hawks, you know, red tailed hawks. But yeah, so when I worked um when I first started working as a ranger, um we had a bald eagle restoration project. I may have mentioned it in the last time we chatted. And um, we got to raise four eaglets and you know, we got to, you know, ban them. They had a special band, it's like red and black, but they also had a GPS unit on them too. So um I was able to track them for a couple years until the GPS stopped working, and they had the bands, of course. And then I was doing a Google search for bald eagles in the area. This is like maybe ten years after that project when I we raised those eaglets. And then I found one of them nesting just eight miles from where I live here, you know, just out in New Jersey. So I found it because I did the Google search, you know. I saw like some birders from you know New Jersey. They're part of the Autobahn burden community, and they were you know posting pictures of this eagle, and I saw the bands on it. I was like, oh my gosh, that's the one that we raised here in Inwood Hill Park. So I went over there and yeah, this must have been like 2011 or something or twelve, I can't remember. And um, yeah, I was like, you know, I felt like a proud uh you know dad going to see a grandfather because he had the it was a female, the one that we um raised here. So she had a nest, you know, a mate, and she had, you know, a couple offspring that year, and she nested there for like three years, and then um eventually there was a construction project that happened there, and then they got scared off, and then she moved into the Meadowlands area. But yeah, so with the bird banding, so that's how I was able to track that one from the number on the band and the color, you know, tells you where it came from. So yeah. And people, you know, the bird watches that you know were there, you know, they looked up the band number too and they they knew where it came from too. So when I emailed the bird watcher on on um their website or whatever it was, Facebook, they knew right away like, oh yeah, you're the guy who um you know raised it in butthill park, you know, so it's here.
SPEAKER_04:So I was like, Bird banding is it's important for conservation and learning, and they were doing this, they've been doing this three years, and my dad participated in some of these activities in his book. And but I wanted to explain to anybody who might be just learning about ornithology and bird watching what that is when you talk about bird banding, because it keeps helps you keep track of your progress, and what you told me about that GPS, of course, that's a relatively new technology, right? To be able to put a p GPS on a bird and watch their this is amazing amount of uh data, and my dad, who died in 2007, would be in awe that you're able to track that.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_04:So the snowy owl is an is a Arctic bird, that's why it's uh exotic to have them there in Chicago and New York because it feels Arctic right now, but it's not Arctic. It's just cold. But I was surprised to learn that the snowy owl has gone extinct in Sweden.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, interesting, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And I thought that's an interesting thing. They've gone extinct here, and then they're showing up over here. And so I went to look up the snowy owl, and it's a migratory bird, but it's nomadic. If it doesn't like where it's is or it doesn't have enough prey, you know, it it leaves. See you later.
SPEAKER_00:Right, yeah, of course.
SPEAKER_04:You know, they they didn't have to be in Sweden for any reason. It's just part of the interesting world of bird watching.
SPEAKER_00:Oh yeah. And we get them um down here in the wintertime on the beaches like Jones Beach, and there's another beach in Queens, um that I think Fort Childen, we've seen them there. So yeah, in the wintertime that I guess that because it's you know the beach, you know, habitat kind of looks like the tundra from where they're from up in the Arctic, you know? Hanging out in the on the sand and stuff or on the sand dunes. And yeah, they'll hunt like you know, all kinds of critters and mice and rats and other birds too. Yeah, so yeah. Yeah, beautiful, beautiful bird, beautiful predator too. Great bird of prey. And I'm wearing my um the dopest birds of prey shirt, as you can see here. So you got the silhouettes. So starting with the eagle silhouette. Oops, sorry, I knocked my microphone. So that's the eagle. What else do we got? Bootio. A bootio is a red-tailed hawk and rough legged hawk. You got the falcon. I don't know if you can see that silhouette. There you go. Kind of like streamlined body, you know, for a speed, because they could die bomb at 240 miles per hour, the fastest animal in the world, peregrine falcons. And what else do we got here? Oh, dissipators, yeah. So dissipater is a forest um where to prey. So they have a longer tail, so they could like rudder in between the trees in the forest, you know. And uh booty eles, like the red tail talk, their wings are wider for soaring. So so when they wear when they're hunting, they're just soaring over like a meadow or like a big baseball field here in New York City, and then swooping down to grab their prey. So they swoop down. Peregrine falcons will hunt in flight. So like I watch them from my window here because they nest on the George Washington Bridge. So if there's like pigeons flying by, so they'll fly up a couple hundred feet above it, then swoop right down with their towns and a fist and smash into them. Sometimes you'll see an explosion of pigeon feathers, you know, and then they'll grab them in flight. And if you know the impact doesn't kill the pigeon from like 200 miles per hour, they'll uh they have a special notch in their beak, the peregrine falcon. So they'll just pull the spine of the bird or whatever prey that they're um hunting, it pull the spine right out and it's instant death. It's pretty metal, peregrine falcon.
SPEAKER_04:So the world of birds is very it can be very violent. And now that I love to watch these birds on either YouTube or shorts on Instagram, I love to watch them. And uh, you know, watching them hunt is must be complicated for a vegan to watch this. You know, the natural world is uh predatory in many ways. And I guess you know this, but the bald eagle, it's so funny that it is the our national bird because the bald eagle is an opportunistic bird of prey, meaning it likes to steal from other birds.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, well, well, it's takes advantage of an easy meal too. So, yeah, opportunistic for sure. But they're great hunters too, so they'll you know, obviously you can see a fish and you'll see them three miles.
SPEAKER_04:You'll you'll see them hunt the the prey from another animal, you know, and grab it, you know, this kind of thing.
SPEAKER_00:And it's yeah, watch them steal from ospreys all the time because ospreys and bald eagles share the same habitat next to a river or a lake. Ospreys specialize in only fish. But bald eagles are opportunistic, so they'll they love fish, that's their main prey. But they also take you know dead deer, they'll take geese, um, you know, rats, squirrels, all kinds of critters. But they also steal from the ospreys. So if an osprey swoops down, grabs a fish, eagle sees it, they'll chase after it, just grab it from their talents, from the osprey's talents. You see that all the time on the lakes around here in New York or in New Jersey, any of the rivers.
SPEAKER_04:I finally had a chance to see more of the Hudson a few weeks ago because you live on the Hudson. I told you I was excited to take a car trip around there, and I got to see lots of birds in the natural world surrounding the Hudson River. Okay, here's next bird in question. Excuse me. Um, this movie Listers, people continue to reach out to me and go, Oh, there's this movie about bird watching. I know your father was into bird watching, and didn't he have some kind of record? And I go, Yes. And I watched the first half half of Listers. You're aware of this movie, Listers?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, I heard of it. I haven't seen it, but yeah, it definitely it's on the list of stuff that I want to see.
SPEAKER_04:It's not so much about birdings, it's kind of like Bill and Ted's excellent birding.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I know bird watchers they do get very um very competitive for sure.
SPEAKER_04:Yes, they get very competitive, and my sense is that these two gentlemen that did the movie saw an opportunity uh to do a documentary that they thought would be funny because in reality during a lot of well, I only watched the first half of it, and they kind of make fun of a lot of bird watchers.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I gotta recommend yeah, I gotta recommend a funny skit if you haven't seen it already. I'll send it to you. It's uh Coran O'Brien goes bird watching in Central Park. Okay, and it's hilarious. And you know, you know, I worked in Central Park for many years, you know, before I moved up here to this park. But anyway, just watching the like you're saying, it's very competitive, and there'll be like groups of birders that compete against each other or they won't share like what they saw, you know, want the other person to get it on their list, you know. Like it's they have to you know up each other with their you know life list or whatever. But anyway, this skit that Cordon O'Brien does is hilarious. So I'll send you the link. It's really good. You can find it on YouTube if you're putting Codon O'Brien angles bird watch in Central Park. It's great. Um birders that I knew from the park that I would see there every day. So they're what they weren't actors, they were real bird watchers that go to the park every morning, yeah. So yeah, Cordon O'Brien was there.
SPEAKER_04:It's really interesting for me growing up with my father having this record to watch the competitive world of bird watching bloom. And people ask me what I think about it, and I think it's great because as a sport, there's not much more harmless than birdwatching. But as a park ranger, you know that it can get out of hand when they uh uh hassle these uh birds out of their nests and territory. And yeah, another thing that's happened in addition to this increase of listers is you have what I call the bird paparazzi.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, we have a lot of that in New York City, yeah. Yeah, what's you know, there's word that a bird like this snowy owl or whatever is in town is like boom, there's like hundreds of the paparazzi birds.
SPEAKER_04:They're they're looking to sell pictures too.
SPEAKER_00:And probably, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:To add it on content and to submit it to Natural Geographic. There's a million reasons why people want to get that shot. You you talked about etiquette. You really do, if you really are there for the birds, you need to pay attention to the etiquette of respecting the wildlife of birds. And I was um reading somewhere that some of these wildlife photographers who are also equally as competitive in getting the shot do these things where they try to coax birds of prey like owls out of hiding by feeding them or cut you know this kind of thing, and that is frowned upon.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's not good.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, it's not good.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so yeah, that's a big part of a park ranger's job, or you know, just to you know educate people on why that's not right, you know, you're disrupting, you know, their you know, nesting, their um yeah, and they're just even if they're visiting a migratory bird, you know, they could stress them out and then they'll just leave, you know. So it's important. I know some like you said, they're trying to get that shot maybe to make money or it's competitive, but they kind of lose all sense of you know respect or boundaries, you know. You always have to give your distance to wildlife, you know, don't get too close, don't stress it out. So yeah, that's a big thing that we have to deal with. So that's what a park ringer does, just to you know, to educate so and protect and protect in the wildlife. So and teaching people how to coexist, not yeah, not get close and yeah, be um have have your burden etiquette together.
SPEAKER_04:I gave you a a copy of my father's book. I want you to hold it up. This is our bird watching book club. Okay, I'm gonna take a picture of this.
SPEAKER_01:Hold on. Nice, you got it.
SPEAKER_04:One great thing in defense of my father, he obviously wanted to break that record for a reason, but he not only broke the record, he smashed it in July and then spent the rest of the year trying to get 700 birds because he thought it was possible. And technically, if you read the book from start to finish, he did see more than 700 birds, but they would not let him count some, one of them being the scarlet obvious. If it blows off course and it's not native or it's not migratory, it might be a captured bird, a pet or whatever. These don't count for the American Birding Association, ABA, is still the main um bird watching enthusiast regulatory commission, if you have one or civic organization. But he saw a few birds that he wasn't able to count because he couldn't either verify the sighting or they weren't considered eligible at the time. But the reason why I'm pimping my dad about this is that he grabbed the bat brass ring in July. He spent the rest of 1979 trying to see as many birds as he could because he thought it was possible. And what he did was used other people to do it, which is something we now call crowdsourcing.
SPEAKER_05:Right.
SPEAKER_04:And this was a much better spirit. He was asking people for help. If you see this bird, show it to me. And I think my dad, as into the sport as he was, he wasn't so competitive that he turned around and wrote a book about it the next year to tell people if you want to see 700 birds, I'll tell you what they are. He was so he was a pioneer in this sport of bird watching, and he was one to be admired for sure.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely, yeah. I love it.
SPEAKER_04:Anyway, I pre I appreciate you letting me talk about birds. Next thing I want to do before we go, I want to talk about bird recording. You and I have talked about the music of birds. That flute that you were just playing is very bird like.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:What does it sound like? What kind of bird does that flute sound like?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I'm not too sure. Let's see. Yeah, this one. Let's see, this one's it imitates the trills and certain sounds that they um rhythmic sounds that they make. But this one's cool because it's got a drill and so I could do so yeah, I have a small one too in my um I have a whole collection of flutes I could do a whole other show. But there's one uh that does like an eagle call. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Do you ever feel like when you play those outdoors that it gets birds' attention um because of the noise? Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. Um I would I would think so. I don't think it's disturbing them, but yeah, um I kind of listen for things. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:I noticed in some of the videos of the archives of my dad chasing birds that these guys will go into the woods. They're they're trying to make noises that are not calling birds because they're not they can't do that really. But they're trying to make noises that would arouse their intention and get them to sing so they can identify them, if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. I've seen that. And I've seen um people uh actually it happened to me once back, and I was showing off uh a screech owl call, and uh the screech owl actually answered and actually flew up to a branch above us when we were doing a night hike. I was like, oh boy. And I used to know a guy who was really good at making bird calls, you know, with his voice, and he would and the screech owls would answer. And sometimes the bard owls would answer too.
SPEAKER_07:Bard owls have that that ooh oooh oo yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So yeah, I know some people that are really good at that, and they will they will answer. But don't do that during the nesting season because that could, you know, stress them out because they're you know territorial.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, good to know. Um my you're my bird, uh Miss Manor, Mr. Manners. Mr. Manners.
SPEAKER_00:All right. This is a cool instrument. I'll show you real quick. This is me out of cedar wood, which is a beautiful this is aromatic cedar. Wish you could smell it. It smells so good. So this is uh another drone flute. My buddy um singing tree flutes, my friend Miguel made this one. See, it's really hard to play, so I'm gonna try it. Let's see. It's a little temperamental. Yeah, so let that tune.
SPEAKER_04:I love it. So we talked about recording birds. Have you recorded any birds? You need to get out there with a good mic and record too.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I did get like a little uh field recorder. I started to last year because I wanted to record just the sounds, you know, just outside, you know, whether it's birds, insects, or frogs and stuff. And then yeah, and I got into like kind of playing music, you know, along with them. So I took back the track. Then I would record it, you know, put it in the computer and then record some guitar or some flute music, you know, trying to keep the rhythm of what was happening with them, you know, not playing over what they were doing.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And I love I love doing that with actually insects, you know, at night, you know, because sometimes it sounds like a symphony, you have all these different directions of sounds, you know, these insects and intertwined with certain, you know, bird sounds too at night. There's a bird which was it, the the Whippoel. Whipperwell. I can't remember which one it was. It was a nighthawk, I think, is another name for it. But they have a really interesting sound. So at night time. So yeah, so anyway, yeah, that's something yeah, I would like to get into recording different, you know, bird sounds and and yeah, try to do something musical with it or add add to it, you know. Yeah. But even just listening to it, it's relaxing, you know, even without the music.
SPEAKER_04:Completely. The reason why I've been thinking so much about birds and music, I've got I use the um the Cornell at Merlin. You just hit a button. I'm very lucky where I live in Nashville. I've got parks and uh DOT land and mature canopies all around me, and I have birds all around me, including red tail hawks. And so I can go out there in the morning and they're just going crazy. And so I hit my Merlin app, and there it goes morning, dove, cardinal, blue jay, crackle, and they start coming, and I'm sitting there listening, and then I'm watching them pop up on my screen, and I'm like, this is a natural symphony. It is and then you yeah, it's it is musical. I believe in evolution, and we evolving with nature, and these are natural sounds, and this is where music came from. I'm convinced of it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, absolutely. Definitely helped inspire it, yeah, to make vocal melodies, absolutely. And sing right on. And actually, I had a real quick, I had a in um college, I had a music professor, she was from Hungria, and she made a she was a like her ear trainer, so she taught ear training. But she would uh transcribe bird songs and like w notate it and stuff, and then she would imitate these sounds with her voice. Her voice was incredible, really amazing vocalist and singer. And she would um yeah, transcribe. I have to find that book. Yeah, but somewhere it might be at my mom's house, but yeah, it was incredible to see how she would transcribe these bird songs into music notation and actually perform it, which is incredible. Yeah. Yeah, look it up. I'll send it to you once I find it.
SPEAKER_04:Um it all goes together, and I'm gonna keep talking about this and trying to get more people interested in bird watching as a sport, listers aside, right? Just the just the uh practice of watching them is becoming popular with people, bird feeders and books that help you sit just on your front porch and identify them. And I think it's such a gentle and wonderful sport, and also you can do it anywhere. And I just think it really is my dad. He was always looking up, he was always looking up and noticing you can be in the middle of something really awful, and those birds will be up there if you want to just watch them and ignore everybody else.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly. That's what's great about it. And yeah, and yeah, like I said, New York City is a great place for bird watchers, you know, for bird watching because you'll have so many different species just in one little square park, you know. And growing up in New York City, you know, I always obsessed with birds of prey, and it was really rare to see a red-tailed hawk. But nowadays, you know, we have them in Tonkin Square Park, which is you know, as a kid, I would never imagine that happening. Yeah. But you know, you know, thanks to conservation efforts, and um, of course, DDT was m you know made illegal. That's that pesticide that you know made the eggshells really fragile and thin. So anyway, yeah, stuff like that really helped bring back birds of prey into the city, and they're really part of the urban ecosystem. That's why they I love all birds, but I'm obsessed, as you know, with birds of prey. So with the red-tailed hawks, the peregrine falcons, and now we're getting great horn owls that are hanging out in you know a lot of the parks. And this time of year is really exciting for the winter because um, you know, bald eagles will gather on the Hudson River. So I you know, if there's ice in the river, there's a couple ice floes today, they'll sit on the ice floe and just kind of float down the river. It's so much fun to watch that.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um, because they'll use it as a hunting perch and just like kind of like a little raft to travel down the Hudson River.
SPEAKER_04:And another bird that was greatly endangered, the bald eagle. When we were when I was a kid, I made some trips out to Texas this year, and I was paying attention to the birds because Texas is a meaningful bird migratory pattern. And the birds in Galveston that really blew my mind were brown pelicans. Do y'all have those?
SPEAKER_00:I've never seen one. No, not here.
SPEAKER_04:You know, you'd think a pelican, it's not that big of a deal, but wow, watching them, and they they are the birds that fly in a pattern like this, where the flock and they're just moving, but they have a massive wingspan, and these things are flying all over Galveston, Texas. So I go to my phone to find out the history of brown pelicans, and once again, this was a bird that was literally on the brink of extinction until they got rid of DDT.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Another bird that was saved by conservation efforts.
SPEAKER_00:So yeah, that makes me really happy to see that.
SPEAKER_04:You know, there's some good news in conservation, there's bad news always, but there is also good news, and that that's another thing I love about my dad's book is that some of these birds were more rare when he saw them, and that are less rare today. So that's why we should keep up these efforts and keep capable park rangers like Rob Monziani.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you.
SPEAKER_02:Anyway, well, that'll do it. We talked about gear, we talked about birds, we talked about the year. Have you had a good year?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it went by really fast, you know. Yeah. Um, yeah, I can't believe it's already Christmas in another week, two weeks, or whatever. But still, yeah, the year flew by. It was good. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:It's been a year since I've seen you.
SPEAKER_00:Wow. Yeah, I was trying to think of the last time I saw you in New York City.
SPEAKER_04:Last December. I was there for the Christmas season. I think it was around your birthday.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, right, yeah, that's right. I saw you when yeah, it was actually on my birthday. I you know, it was when I released that single, that song Sleepwalk was the first single from the album that came out in January. And I think I uh yeah.
SPEAKER_04:I saw you uh play Caravan, it was a cafe, another legendary restaurant in New York City.
SPEAKER_00:Caravan.
SPEAKER_04:And I had an incredible meal there, and that was a fun place. And you always have shown me a great time there in New York, and you also let me know where all the great food is.
SPEAKER_00:Yep. I'll be there on Wednesday performing, so yeah, on the 17th. Yeah, I love that spot. Well, thank you. Yeah, I hope to see you soon up back up here, you know, come back. And I gotta figure out when I'm coming down to see you down in Nashville, do some buskin with the harp guitar and because I'm not traveling with this flying sitar.
SPEAKER_04:I have a flying sitar. Love it. And uh it's it knows how to fly, but it's not gonna fly to New York. So if you want to see it, you gotta come to Nassau.
SPEAKER_00:That sounds good.
SPEAKER_04:Well, thanks for coming back and making it rounding out my big ear with another rare bird sighting because you are a rare bird. Rob Monstruani is a rare bird. He's the red-tailed hawk of Manhattan.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, thank you. I like that.
SPEAKER_04:Hey, did I tell you that I've decided what my bird is?
SPEAKER_00:No, what is it? What you got?
SPEAKER_04:Another thing about bird watching is when you start to study them, you're like, wow, there's a lot of goals. There's lots of turns, there's lots of ospreys, there's lots of warblers, and there's one called a Nashville warbler. Did you know that?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think I may have seen one up here at Central Park during the migration.
SPEAKER_04:Migration. It's one of the longest things. It's it's actually it goes like up to Antarctica and then all the way down to South America, and it does not leave live nor breed anywhere in North America. The reason why it's named the Nashville Warbler is the first recorded sighting was in Nashville in 1811. Wow. And I said, that's me. I'm the Nashville warbler.
SPEAKER_00:I love that.
SPEAKER_04:I don't belong here, but I was recorded here once. It's a songbird and it's yellow, so I love it. I'm the Nashville Warbler, so we're gonna say goodbye. We're signing off the red-tailed hawk of Manhattan, Rob, and the Nashville warbler from Nashville, Tennessee, Emily Vardeman Walters of the Lipstick Pickup, signing off. Thank you. Oh, thanks for having me. Yeah. See you soon. All right, I hope to.
SPEAKER_03:If you hear excellent tone and the sound of birds chirping, it means you've made it through an entire episode of the Lipstick Pickup Podcast. You're as free as a bird now, but I hope you'll join me again soon. Comments or questions? I can be reached at Emily at the LipstickPickup.com.