How Importers are Changing What You Drink & Why It Matters w/ Dale Ott (Part 1)

Ep 84

Ever wondered what it takes to bring unique Mexican and Portuguese wines to your local shelves?

Today’s guest, Dale Ott, is giving us a behind the scenes look at what it takes to import wine into the US. We talk about why she chose to import wines from Mexico and Portugal, as well as her meticulous selection process for importing wines - hint it’s all about building strong, trust-based relationships with producers. She places an emphasis on low-intervention wines that genuinely represent their regional lineage.

She also dives into challenges faced by smaller wine producers and importers, like the exorbitant margins taken by distributors and the large increase in shipping costs, all of which contribute to higher consumer costs.

Dale Ott is a sommelier-turned-importer who specializes in Mexican and Portuguese wine. Dale and her husband, Stephone Ott, are the owners of NOSSA imports. They have over 30 years of experience on all three tiers of the alcohol industry and are excited to shed light upon historically-relevant wine regions around the world that are making high quality wines deserving of international visibility.

So, if you are ready to learn about the intricacies of importing Mexican and Portuguese wines, the dynamic factors impacting wine prices, the detailed journey from vineyard to your table, and the passionate efforts behind NOSSA imports, then this episode is for you. 

Connect with Dale:

Shop - https://nossa-imports.myshopify.com

Instagram - @nossaimports

Episode Highlights:

• NOSSA Imports and Dale’s journey

• Various global and local factors that influence wine prices

• Why Dale imports Mexican wine and Portuguese wine

• Less-known wine histories of Mexican wine and Portuguese wine

• Dale’s selection process for importing wines

• Dale’s preference in wine distributors and who she refuses to work with

• Challenges in the market when it comes to imported wines

• Impact of the high margins taken by distributors in the US

• Impact on wine costs due to increased shipping costs

• The wine import process

Transcript

0:09

Interested in learning about wine, but not sure where to start? You're in the right place. Welcome to the Cork and Fizz Guide to Wine Podcast. I'm your host, Haley Bullman, and I'm so glad you're here. I'm a wine enthusiast turned wine educator and founder of the Seattle based wine tasting business, Cork and Fizz. It is my goal to build your confidence in wine by making it approachable and lots of fun. You can expect to learn everything from how to describe your favorite wine to what to pair with dinner tonight and so much more. Whether you're a casual wine sipper or a total cork dork like myself, this podcast is for you. So grab yourself a glass and let's dive in. Welcome back to the Cork and Fizz Guide to Wine Podcast. If you're new here, welcome. So glad you're checking this out. And, of course, if you are a regular listener, thank you for the support. It still blows my mind that people wanna listen to me talk about wine so much, so thank you for being here. Today, we are gonna be talking to Dale Ott. Dale is a sommelier turned importer who specializes in Mexican and Portuguese wines. She and her husband, Steven, started NOSA Imports in January of 2020. Yes, we all realize that is a very tough time to have started an international business, but they hour'd through and I'm so glad they did. Between the 2 of them, they have over 30 years of experience on all three tiers of the alcohol industry. And we'll talk about that 3 tier system a little bit later in the interview. Their goal is to shed light on regions that have an incredible history in winemaking, make high quality wines, yet don't get the attention they deserve. Hence their focus on Mexican and Portuguese wines. In part 1, so in this episode, we discuss what it means to import wines into the US and discover exactly what happens to a bottle of wine as it travels from a vineyard in Portugal to your dinner table. Then in part 2, next week, Dale gives me a crash course on Mexican wine and talks about some incredibly special producers in the area. And don't worry, we don't leave Portugal out, but I was a little selfish and kind of focused on Mexican wine because I'm so excited about it. Alright. Without further ado, let's get into the interview. Well, thank you for joining me. I know it's not ideal. It looks like, we both kind of have to make it work for for that, but appreciate you being here and really excited to I know we just had you in the court crew last night, but now I'm extra excited to learn about Mexican wine and more about importing, so thank you for joining. Happy to be here. I think it's so important that you get to introduce yourself and kind of share, and this is also kind of one of those, where you get to kinda share your story into wine. But first, you just wanna tell us who you are and what you do. Yeah. So I'm Dale Ott. I own NOSA Imports, and we import wines from Mexico and Portugal to the United States. I've been in the alcohol industry in the US for it'll be 2 decades next year, and really excited to be bringing wines from both of these countries, and increase the visibility on both because they're they're truly making some some really special bottles. Yeah. No. Absolutely. So I the other question I always love to ask because I think it's so fun to find out, and everybody seems to have a different story for how it happens. What made you get into wine? What was it that was like, I need to know more. I want and then for your case, like, I want a career in wine. I wanna spend all this time. What was it that sparked that? Yeah. Well, I I grew up on a farm, and my mom's a botanist, So we've I've had a very sort of plant heavy upbringing, and we've always been very sort of connected to the earth. We are a big backpacking family. We really we really value our time in nature, and we value sort of life around us. And I think wine is a really beautiful embodiment of that. You can't have wine without nature. You can't have wine without plants, and you can't have wine without people. And so it's it's sort of this beautiful symphony of science and art that exists between plants and humans that I find to be absolutely addicting. Once you just learn, you keep learning more and more, and there are parts of it that we will never understand. There's parts of it that truly just are still magic. You know? And so I think it's because of the magic. Yeah. No. I totally agree. I think it's one of those things, like, the first thing that comes to mind is, like, the the world of, like, biodynamic wine and biodynamic farming of just, like, why does some of that stuff work? Like, why is it that? Like, because sometimes I hear it, and I go, leaf days, water days, what the heck? And it's like, but there are studies now and all these things that point, and they're like, but it works and it makes sense, you know? And so, like, like, I love that you'd say that, and it kinda goes along with, too, the whole idea of, like, I don't know about you, but anytime that like, I always tell people, like, if anybody claims they know everything about wine, they're wrong. It's impossible. And it keeps growing. There's just there's always more to learn because there's there's more happening. There's new experiments being tried. There's new countries producing wine in larger ways. So it's you'll never be bored also, which is nice. Yes. Absolutely. Just a quick reminder. If you are not on my mailing list yet, what are you waiting for? I would love for you to join. When you do, you'll get a free shopping guide that has 15 of my favorite wines under $15. Head to corkandfizz.com, scroll down to the bottom, and there'll be a little section where you can join the mailing list. I send out a weekly newsletter filled with wine tips, recommendations, special offers, and so much more. Now let's get back to the show. Okay. So let's talk a little bit more, about your life as an importer. I feel like that I think you're the first importer, if I'm remembering correctly, on the podcast. So would love to love to learn more about, like, what do you do as a wine importer? What does your day to day or your week to week kinda look like? Oh, that's a great question. So most of what I'm doing, because I am a very small import company, it's just myself and my husband is my partner. Really where where we like to spend most of our time is in our relationships. Where we do spend most of our time is bureaucracy, red tape, and government forms, and on the road, hence me being in my vehicle for this podcast right now. But really on a day to day basis, I am having conversations with my producers. We're planning out our sales for the year with our different markets, our different distributors. We're talking about new wine projects they have coming up. We're assessing harvest at this point, since that's just ended for both countries, figuring out what orders are gonna be for next year. I'm also consistently talking to my distribution teams, to my my brand managers in each of the states that we sell in, and, you know, doing all of the sexy logistics and, and compliance in the background. We're also perpetually in conversations with governments from both countries. There's a lot of laws that can make the entry process pretty challenging, even just between order to order. So we're we're consistently looking to improve our logistical systems since they're they're consistently in flux for the size of company that we are. And so it's a lot of relationships with a lot of people is really what what importing is. You act as connection between source to source, and that's something that what I think wine should be. It's it's a it's something that provides connection. It's it connects people to people. It connects people to places. And as importers, we get to connect all of that. Oh. So, yeah, that's that's actually why I named the company NOSA. It means hours in Portuguese, and, that's wine is about connection. It's about connection to all of us into the land. Oh, I love that. Yes. I I think that's so cool, and and I like what you, you talked about too. Yeah. It's important to have that like, you're not just, like, bringing in wines. You're connecting with the people who are making the wines, and they they mean so much to you to be able to bring their wine and, and then to share that wine with, with other people. So you mentioned a couple words that I think for folks that are listening probably have heard, but might not understand of like distributors importing, you know, the the US. I know we have a large listener base in the US, and then I'm sure it's similar in some other countries, but we can talk about US because that's what we know. Can you tell us a little bit more about the system for bringing wines into the US and how they get to the consumer, and why we kind of or at least, like, what each of the parts are to go from, like, yeah, a wine in Portugal to actually buying somebody taking home a bottle of Portuguese wine. Totally. It goes on a wild little adventure. So it'll it'll start off at the vineyard, obviously. We have a consolidation space, and let's use Portugal as the example. We have consolidation spaces in both countries for all of our producers to drop their wine off at, and then we can do a transfer into the port authority to get those loaded on the containers. That requires a fair amount of of efforts and logistics. It's sort of a it's herding cats every single time. Additionally, with the fact that most of the producers that we work with are fairly small and fairly esoteric, so sometimes it's sort of patchworking ways of of them being able to get their their product into the container. Once it's there, we work with the port authority. We work with our compliance team, and we work with customs brokerage and, shop through a massive amount of paperwork in order to fill out all the government forms, make sure that the wines are all cleared for entry with the h with the FDA, with the TTB, which is alcohol and tobacco trade bureau, the government authority that controls alcohol in the United States, making sure that we're compliant on all levels. Once it hits port, we usually actually end up shipping all the way through the Panama Canal and landing in Oakland. It's one of the deeper ports on the west coast, so it can actually take larger ships, which is typically what our containers get loaded onto. It will spend a few days there in port going through inspections with both the TTB and the FDA. Once there, we will arrange logistics to have it picked up and taken to our warehouse. We warehouse in Napa, which is fairly common. That's a pretty pretty established trade route for alcohol in the United States. And every distributor in the country picks up from this warehouse in Napa. So it's it's a smart logistical move to to have product there. And then when we have the wine in stock, we're able to then pitch it to distributors. So legally in most states, as an importer, I'm classified in the same way the government classifies a producer in our 3 tier system. So on tier 1, you have producers and importers. On tier 2, you have distributors. And on tier 3, you have shops, bars, and restaurants. So I exist in tier 1. And in most states legally, I have to work with a distributor to sell my wines in that state. Even in the states that I don't, I'm not legally required to work with a distributor. Distributors are our sales forces on the ground. They warehouse, they provide logistical forces to actually deliver product to bar shops and restaurants. They provide a sales team. So it's it's a nice partnership to have and and to make sure, especially when you're carrying smaller and and more niche products, that you can have that sustainability and supply for the demand. So, yeah, once we we pitch a distributor on our wines, they decide that they wanna they wanna partner with us and they wanna carry our wines and and have a a working business relationship. We do a full launch with them in whatever state they're in. So we'll use Colorado as an example. I work with a distributor called Maverick in Colorado. They love our wines. They brought us in, about a year ago. And now usually about 2 or 3 times a year, I'll go to the to Colorado. I'll go to Denver. I'll go to Boulder. We'll throw a bunch of events. We'll do big, you know, tasting dates with the sales representatives that work there, and then we do that for all of the states that we're in. In order to get the wines into people's mouths, it's a it's a lot of lot of work on the front side to throw a party in a wine shop, but it's always really lovely when we get to that point. There's been a lot of love and care behind it to get the bottles there. Yeah. Wow. So, I mean, even just thinking about yeah. So it gets there, and then when it come like, your job as the importer is essentially kind of bringing the wine here, and then it doesn't stop there. It's also kind of like, like you said, kind of like parading the wine or kind of, what's the word I'm kind of looking for of just like highlighting the wine and telling people why they should try it and in doing that work. And then it's actually the distributor who then takes it from you've you've gotten it to the warehouse, then they're the one that's going to, like, sell it to the wine shops and the restaurants and the bars. Do you work with a different distributor in each state? We can. I work with Maverick in, let's see. I'm so I'm selling in 8 states currently, and we're we're bumping that up to 11 by the beginning of next year. I'm with Maverick in 5 of my states. I really for the types of products that I'm selling, you have distributors of all sizes. Most distributors in the United States are most of that that presence are pretty huge mega companies, pretty monopolistic, shall we say. And I like to aim for the distribution teams that are there. They specialize in fine wine. They specialize in high end spirits. They're all trained. They're not just sort of, you know, order takers that have sort of the largest logistical forces with the nuance of of the quality of the team. So I I usually aim for sort of the biggest of the small guys, and Maverick really, really suits me for that. Nice. Okay. And then, yeah, and then it's the distributors who sell it then to the wine shops, restaurants, and the bars. And then that's finally when, as a consumer, we can purchase the the wine, which is just wild that it has to go through each of those tiers to get to us. Now, of course, there is the direct to consumer DTC, if anyone's heard that, is the producer selling directly to people. Like, if you go to a winery and you buy it directly from the winery, you can do that. Does that exist for importers as well, or do you have to do something else to be able because I know you guys sell on your website. Mhmm. Yeah. So so direct to consumer for wineries, say, based in California, they still have to link together a number of licenses in order to make that work. So it is actually very challenging for home state teams to to get their wines out into the world. It's it's very challenging to ship alcohol in the United States. For us, what that looks like, really the only 2 states in the United States that have the legal ability since October of 2021 to ship alcohol to any other states are California, New York. Every other state was stripped of their their ability to do that during sort of that that wild west time of of alcohol shipment in the United States. And then it was massively overregulated. California and New York are sort of the basis of the major companies that kind of push that into play. So what happens is I sell my product in California to a 3rd party company that essentially is set up as a liquor store. They're not open to the public. It's a warehouse space. They do shipping and consolidation, but they are who fuels my online shop. So, essentially, it's like selling it to an online shop. It's like sending selling it to a shop in California, and then they're able to do the logistics and get it out to at least 40 states. So that's that's not all 50, but lots of state laws about who can receive what. Yeah. I was gonna say, I know a couple of them you're never gonna make it to. Like, Utah is one that just like, it's not gonna happen. There doesn't even exist a license to to do it. So that one's not on you. And I'm luckily enough, we do distribute in Utah. It's it's one of those states. It took us almost 6 months to get through all the compliance work, but the way that that state is laid out is fascinating. They're they're a governmentally controlled alcohol state, obviously. And the only place that anybody can get alcohol, including bars and restaurants are state run liquor stores. So there's 48 of them in the state, I believe. And once you get through that whole process, it's very worthwhile because a lot of people just don't even wanna work with Utah. It's it's a lot of work to get to that point, but they buy pallets of wine once you get through. If you're accepted into the state source system, they're they're one of our volume states. So it it's worth the work on the front side. We can't do direct to consumer there, but we're at least we have presence on on store shelves. Oh, wow. Yeah. That's so interesting. Okay. Well, that's great for anybody in Utah listening there. You can find those Portuguese and Mexican wine there. It's great. I did wanna ask a little bit about I've heard at one point, like, concern about increases in taxes for wines coming into the US. I remember going to my local bottle shop, and that was, like, a major concern for them. They were worried the prices of wine was just going to just skyrocket here. Is that still a concern, and how would that impact wine consumers? This podcast is sponsored by Repour Wine Savers. Listen, I love wine, but that doesn't mean I wanna drink a full bottle every night. You see, it's always a risk opening a bottle knowing I'll only have a glass or 2. 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Once you have repour, you'll never have to worry about opening a bottle of wine just for one glass. I mean, heck. Now you can try 2 or more wines at the same time and have your own at home wine tasting. This podcast is sponsored by the Court Crew Virtual Wine Club. Interested in trying new wines, but not sure where to start? Or maybe you've been listening to this podcast for a while and you love the idea of tasting wine live with me. If that's you, come join my Court Crew virtual wine club, and you'll get to sip wine with me twice a month while I help you find new favorite wines. The Court Crew is not your ordinary wine club. This is a community of people who are passionate about exploring new flavors, learning about different wine styles, and having fun along the way. And the best part about this club? Purchasing the wine is completely optional. Plus, all events are recorded, and you have access to the full library of recordings as a court crew member, so you can always catch up if you can't make it live. Oh, and did I mention it's virtual, which means you get to do all of this from the comfort of your sofa in your PJs. No need to worry about driving in crappy traffic, finding a designated driver, or spending an arm and a leg on a taxi. Wanna give it a try without the commitment? You're in luck. Right now, I'm offering a free class pass to anybody who wants to try out the Court Crew virtual wine tasting club. With this pass, you'll be able to join a Court Crew event of your choosing. No strings attached. I don't need your credit card. I don't need you to sign up for anything. You'll be my guest. Simply head to corkandfizz.com/freeclasspass to get your class pass and be one step closer to becoming a member of the best wine tasting club around, the court crew. I can't wait to see you there. Now let's get back to the show. Yeah. You know, taxes are not so much the concern. And in fact, there is there's a program called CBMA that allows for for a pretty drastic cut in in taxes for importers as long as they file their paperwork. So taxes is not so much what a lot of the issues have been in the beginning of COVID. We were going through sort of those duty wars between the United States and it was, it was over flight subsidies. There was a battle between the European Union and, and the United States regarding luxury goods. And we were both taxing the hell out of each other. So that was, that was an issue. That that at that point, that was an issue. That was resolved, and it wasn't just wine that was affected. It was cheeses from it was it was everywhere that either country could hurt each other. It was Scotch. It was cheeses from France. It was Le Creuset cookingware. The list was was enormous. And then they they were in return taxing bourbon, taxing all wines from California, taxing any luxury that that makes life worth living about airline issues. So gotta love that. That was resolved. Things like that will pop up in the future, but that's not really the sustainable kinda issue moving forward. What we there's 2 places that I see sort of the most predatory price increases. Unfortunately, one of those is in the tier 2 of our system, and this isn't blanket for every distributor, but distributors were they came to be in the United States for the alcohol system with the introduction of the saloon act in 18/96. So the saloon act was in effect a monopoly busting act to break up when a saloon had their own brewery or their own distillery or their own winery attached, and they became their own little monopolies. So distributors were invented to be essentially monopoly busters. And at this point, you know, a 120 years later, they have in fact become the monopoly. So the biggest margins out of any part of the system are taken by tier 2. And in in full candor, you know, my margins usually sit between 20 30%. Distributors typically are around I've I've seen between 60 a 100% margins, and that's about 3 to 5 times what the producer themselves make. So the distribution level is something that is pretty up for contention in the United States at this point. Lots of people that are really unhappy that they both have to legally work with distributors and have to give away that margin, which makes the wine a lot more expensive on the shelf. You know, if I'm bringing a wine in from Portugal that costs me 3 US dollars, that's gonna sit on the shelf probably around $20. Wow. Just, and minimum margins taken by everybody. That's that's the cost that it takes to get to get here. The other one is in the world of supply chain, there's there are oftentimes scarcity that is caused by a number of things. And in the past 5 years, we've seen some pretty wild happenings in supply chain. In the beginning of 2021 was when I had my first container come over from Portugal for the company. Pre COVID, a container crossing the ocean full of wine, 40 foot container, 21 pallets. We're looking at 600 bottles a pallet. That would be around $7,000. Get to 2021 when everything was so crazy and there was so much scarcity and fear and and all of the complexities of what was happening then, it was$38,000 So the fluctuations of supply chain based off of either real or perceived scarcity based off of political situations, that really is a huge issue, especially given that that global system is monopolistic at this point too. There's only a few major global freight companies, and we do really try to use localized companies. So we're not really feeding into that system, and we can keep the competition alive. So that's that's something that really does affect the end dollar of the the consumer of wine that's just wanting to taste something nice and and, you know, learn something. So it's we're fighting a good fight out here, but it's there's there's a lot stacked up against, against those price points. Yeah. Well, and I think it's so important to kinda, like, learn those things. Because as a consumer, you you don't know that that's why, you know, that bottle that you bought last year was $15, and now it's $20. And you're like, what the hell? Why you know, and you don't realize that it's each of those pieces that are playing into it. And sometimes, yeah, things that feel totally random, and you're like, why? Okay. Great. Cool. Like International game of telephone. Yeah. No. Exactly. Okay. I wanna dive into the so you are an import company for Mexican and Portuguese wines. I feel like they, like, seem to match, but also it's kind of like, okay. Those seem a little bit of, like, an interesting choice, especially with, like, Mexican wines. Not a lot of people have tried those, and then being Europe and Mexico. So why did you choose these two regions? So, you know, as a as a sommelier for many years, my my husband and I both were were pretty frustrated regarding accessibility of wines globally that weren't just sort of from the same five countries. We all see Italian, French, Spanish, United States. You know, maybe there's a smattering of of German. But, really, those are kind of the wines that we find predictably on shelves in everywhere from hotels to airport bars to what the consumer is is used to imbibing. And we found a lot of what we were looking for to fill out the global history and the global story of wine in both Mexico and Portugal. Mexico is the oldest new world wine producing region outside of Europe and the Middle East on earth with almost 500 years of growing history. And then Portugal is has almost well, a little over 4000 years of wine growing history, beating out France by a millennium, Spain by a millennium and a half. They're one of the older producing countries in Europe outside of, you know, Georgia and Armenia. They have, like, between 7 8000 years. They also have 250 indigenous varietals that are only used for wine in Portugal alone. And we do very profoundly feel that both countries are massively misunderstood regarding their wine production. Many people have never had Portuguese wines that are unfortified outside of Port Madera. Maybe they've had a vinho verde at some point in their lives, but the plethora and the absolute abundance of these heavenly non fortified wines coming from this country is pretty globally unknown. And for good reason, these these areas have existed in the shadow of the Dodo Valley for almost 300 years, given that it was the 1st delineated and governmentally controlled wine appellation on earth. So that that's something that it's it's really special in Portugal and that it really the country has not been looking to the export market ever for their non fortified wines. They've been making them for themselves the same way they've been making them for centuries. You know? So you that is why you get this incredibly special sense of place. You get incredible affordability for what these wines are. And similar things are true of Mexico. They really are kind of getting their sea legs in this renaissance that's happening in the country, and we're seeing a lot of creativity. Mexico doesn't have growing Appalachians yet, so there's no governmentally controlled areas. I do think that will come in the next 5 to 10 years, but it's it's a really good thing that they don't have it yet because they are figuring out you know, they know what regions grew what in antiquity, but they're they're figuring out what works now and what works now in the face of their national market and the global market, what are exports versus home consumption gonna look like. So both countries are really kinda going through a renaissance, and aesthetically, stylistically, they they suit each other really well. So it it does seem a little bit random, but it it fills in the global history beautifully, and stylistically, they they match, which is interesting. I love that. No. I I think I couldn't agree more, and I I think yeah. The more you describe it, it's like, oh, yeah. That makes sense though. That makes I see why you I see why you put those 2 together, why they're why they're so important to bring those in. Can you tell us a little bit more about how you decide which wines to import? And do you have a say in what happens to the wine, like, after they're imported? Like, what shops they end up with or anything like that? But, yeah, how do you how do you decide the wines you import? Yeah. So that part of the process takes quite some time. We don't import wines until we have a pretty trusting relationship with the producer. It's it's like dating. You know? We we need to know their ethos. We need to know what they stand for. We need to like each other. At the end of the day, we've all been in business for a long time and have done business with a lot of folks that you don't like, but you get through it. We don't have to do that. And, honestly, the end result shows up in the line and the way that it's the way that it's presented and provided. So it takes usually a year to a year and a half of us coming out and visiting whoever it is, being a part of all the processes. That's something that's very important to us. Every single bottle that that we import, we have physically touched every single step of the process to ensure that it is made as as it's been stated. We do focus on low intervention wines. We're of typicity, so we're we're looking for wines that represent the regions that they come from with integrity. Again, we're we're about connection. So we we want to connect the the person enjoying these wines with that place on earth, with that person. So it's very intimate. You know, this that part of the process is we don't skimp on the time that it takes because it is important. And we being that we're the face of these wines in the market, we need to know them as intimately as the producer does. So that's how we can start that courtship. We will then, once we get to that place, we will then start to work on labeling if we, if we do need to change the labels for the US market and if we need to redesign them because they look too much like something else that already exists. So we will we do a lot on the, on the design side as well. We've designed a lot of our producers US labels just to, to give them the best chance that they have in the saturated market that we exist in. 11,600 new labels of wine registered with the TTB last year alone. So we are existing in a huge sea of wine, which is a both both a wonderful thing and a challenging thing for everybody involved. Regarding where they eventually end up, typically, I don't like to put any sort of mandates on my distributors about where they can sell and where they can't. If I have a highly specialized product that I only have a few bottles of, I will usually either allocate that to the accounts that I know will be able to represent it in the best fashion, or I will go out and sell it myself and not even include the distributor team and just let them satisfy those orders. I do have 2 companies that I will not work with, and they're Amazon and Walmart. So those are the I've I have many years of experience working with both, and unfortunately, they are absolute predators that require brands to sell at a loss in order to get the exposure in their stores, and they they put people out of business. So, you know, that's something that I tell a lot of my producers is I hope you don't have a problem with that, but I wouldn't feel like an Integris partner in in allowing your products to be there. So so, yeah, that's that's kind of the the process there. Oh, that's it's really fun to learn about. But, yeah, I think I think that makes a lot of sense. And, yeah, I can totally hear you. I can totally see that on Amazon being like, hey, you get it on here, and it'll get attention to you, but that that doesn't help. It's like, at the end of the day, it's it's the same thing with, like, you know, I'm I'm sure, I've I've talked with influencers on here, and they're like, so many brands reach out and be like, hey. We'll send you wine, and you can create content with it. And they're like, that's great, but I have bills to pay. We are all still businesses. Can you respect that and actually want to support the business, and like you said, support the producers that are, you know, that as we learned with the multiple tiers, they don't make that much money. Like you buy the bottle for $20 they do not get$20 per bottle that they sell. So. I hope you enjoyed this episode of the cork and fizz guide to wine podcast. Be sure to check out the wines that Dale has available on their online store atnosaimports.com, and be sure to ask for Portuguese and Mexican wines at your favorite wine shops, restaurants, and bars. The more we talk about it, the more we're going to see them available. If you love this episode as much as I did, please take a quick second to rate it, leave a review. You can even take a little screenshot of you listening to it and post it to your Instagram stories or share it with your group chat with your friends. Just let people know that there are these really cool conversations happening. In next week's episode, you'll hear part 2 of my conversation with Dale. She gives me a crash course on Mexican wine and talks about some incredibly special producers in the area. Thanks again for listening and if you want to learn more about wine, be sure to come follow me at quorkandfizz on Instagram. I'm also on TikTok but, your girl is still figuring it out So you can find me there if that's your place. And if you're interested in exploring new wines and joining an incredible community of wine lovers, be sure to sign up for my virtual tasting club, the court crew. The court crew got to do a special q and a with Dale just before I recorded this interview. So if you would love to actually get to talk to the winemakers and the importers and ask your questions, joining the court crew is a great way to do that. And again, you can try it for free. I promise no credit card required. There's nothing sneaky about it. Just go to quorkandfizz.com/freeclasspass. Get a free pass so you can come check out a tasting for free. Cheers.