Disrupting the Wine Industry w/ Currently Wine Co. (Part 1)

Ep 115

What if the wine industry’s biggest problem isn’t quality, but the connection to the wine?

Today’s guest, Daniel Rodriguez, saw an opportunity to bring fresh energy and better marketing to wine. With a deep passion for wine and a sharp eye on consumer trends, he's building a brand that meets today’s drinkers where they are.

Daniel, the owner and CEO of Currently Wine Co., plans to use his skills in building tech brands to bring a disruptive wine brand into a slow moving industry, ripe for change. Over the previous 11 years, he has led the marketing function for 3 startup B2B tech companies. In 2021, he co-authored "Experience is Everything," a book about the future of customer service in an increasingly digital world.

In this episode, you’ll hear how one bottle of Argentinian Malbec opened the door to Daniel’s wine obsession, and why he believes wine brands are failing to connect with modern consumers. We explore what younger wine drinkers really care about, why Sauvignon Blanc is Currently’s first release, and how branding and sustainability can go hand-in-hand.

Daniel also breaks down the marketing mistake many wine brands make: selling to themselves, not their customers. He shares what makes lifestyle wine buyers different from collectors and why understanding that difference is key to standing out in a crowded market. Plus, Daniel shares why he believes the wine industry is missing a massive opportunity to reduce its carbon footprint and how packaging plays a key role in that shift.

So, if you’re curious about how someone outside the traditional wine world is rewriting the playbook, this episode will give you a whole new perspective on what’s possible and what’s needed to move the industry forward!

Thank you to Wine.com for sponsoring this episode. Go to Wine.com/corkfizz and use code CORKFIZZ for FREE shipping on your order over $150. (Limit one per customer.)

As a listener of this podcast go to https://currentlywine.com/ and you will receive a 20% discount with promo code CorkandFizz20 - discount valid through 9/23/2025 and up to 3 purchases per customer.

This is part 1 of my interview with Daniel so don’t miss part 2 next week!

Connect with Daniel 

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/drodriguez4/

Episode Highlights:

• Why most wine brands are marketing to the wrong audience
• Three types of wine consumers

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Transcript

0:09

Interested in learning about wine but not sure where to start? You're in the right place. Welcome to the Cork and Fizz Guide to Wine podcast. I'm your host, Hayley Bowlman and I'm so glad you're here. I'm a wine enthusiast turned wine educator and founder of the Seattle based wine tasting business Cork and Fizz. It is my goal to build your confidence in wine by making it approachable and lots of fun. You can expect to learn everything from how to describe your favorite wine to what to pair with dinner tonight and so much more. Whether you're a casual wine sipper or a total court dork like myself, this podcast is for you. So grab yourself a glass and let's dive in foreign. Hello and welcome back to the Cork and Fizz Guide to Wine podcast. Today I'm excited to introduce you to Daniel Rodriguez. He is the owner and CEO of currently wine company. He has a background in building tech brands and he hopes to use these skills that he's developed there to bring a disruptive wine brand to a slow moving industry that is ripe for change. Over the previous 11 years, he has led the marketing function for three startup tech companies. In 2021, he co authored Experience is Everything, a book about the future of customer service in an increasingly digital world. His wine brand currently has a focus on sustainability impact and just enjoying wine as it's meant to be enjoyed. In this episode, you'll discover how Daniel shifted from tech and finance to wine. Why currently is all about Sauvignon Blanc and whether that might change and what it is that wine brands are missing when it comes to marketing and so much more. So, without further ado, let's get into the interview. Okay, so I wanted to start out where I was looking at your background. It seems like you have more of a background or at least started in like tech, finance, marketing. So my question is, what made you go into wine? Why start a wine brand? It's just the natural segue of things, right? No, it's a phenomenal question. I mean, anyone who knows me knows that I'm first and foremost really passionate about wine. And so going back now, probably 15 plus years, you know, when I really started getting into wine and doing a couple levels of the WSET and, and then kind of more recently, you know, building my wine cellar and, you know, just really kind of going down the rabbit hole. Fully down the rabbit hole. So this in many ways actually feels like a perfect match of both my professional experience and interest with my personal passion. Okay, I love it. So Then I have to ask, what was it that got you originally into wine? What made you want to take W set? What made it a passion for you? So I've actually had this conversation, asked this specific question of many other people who then are also really into wine. Because I have noticed, and I don't know if you've also noticed this, that it tends to be that there was like a wine and there was like an actual, like, what was the wine that made you go, huh, this is an amazing thing. And why is that? Right? And this is like, first question of why, then begets the next question of why, which then you start looking at the rabbit hole and asking yourself, do you really want to go down it? Because you realize that there is a very deep rabbit hole. So for me, that was a Catena Malbec. Okay, Argentinian Malbec. Yes, Argentinian Malbec. It was like the, you know, they've got a few different levels now, you know, of their wines for the American audience. But this was going back when, like, it was basically what we now see as like, the high end version of Catena. It was like a $60 kind of bottle of wine that I got at a restaurant on a recommendation from somebody that I was thinking, this person seems knowledgeable. I'm not really that knowledgeable, but I really love the idea of red wine in my life. Like, I knew enough to know that. And I'd had Cabernet Sauvignon and Merlot before. And this wine comes out, you know, it's inky black. I mean, it's dark, right? And brooding looking. And it looks like it's just going to be this kind of like, ripe red fruit bomb that is bigger than any cab that I had had and certainly was going to, you know, be tannic. And I then take this first sip, and it is just so soft on the tannins. And it is such a beautiful, like, long finish. And, you know, the whole high altitude thing kind of plays into both the color and the intensity of that fruit flavor profile. But I didn't know anything about high altitude anything. I had no idea what I was doing. All I knew was this wine blew my mind. It actually blew my mind. And it made me ask the question, why does this taste this way? What's the deal? What's the deal with Malbec? You know, it's not Cabernet Sauvignon, obviously. So, yeah, I have Laura Catena and the server at that restaurant in Jackson, New Hampshire, to. To thank for that. Nice. I love it. Yeah. I think it's so true. It's either, like. I think it's either a wine that makes the messy, but I think it's that second part that I've found to be more comm. In, like, wine lovers and why they get into something is because something just clicks about wine where they're like, whoa, like, how does it do that? Like, that was kind of the thing for me of, like, so many people would ask me, and I'm like, I don't really know. I just love wine. I can't tell you. And then I realized it was because you could ask so many questions about it and you could just, like, dive deeper and it's this, like, endless subject. And so, yeah, I totally agree. It's either like a wine or even more so just like, asking why or how and then, like, going down that endless rabbit hole. Yes. And, you know it's endless, right? I mean, there's just. There's more types of wine and, you know, grape growing regions than, you know, then. Then we have days to drink. You know what I mean? It's incredible. Yeah, you could drink, like, I think I've heard someone say, like, you could drink a new wine every day for the rest of your life and you would never drink all of them. It's impossible. Yeah. That's amazing. Just a quick reminder, you are not on my mailing list yet. What are you waiting for? I would love for you to join. When you do, you'll get a free shopping guide that has 15 of my favorite wines under$15. Head to corkandfizz.com, scroll down to the bottom, and there'll be a little section where you can join the mailing list. I send out a weekly newsletter filled with wine tips, recommendations, special offers, and so much more. Now let's get back to the show. Okay, so there are many of us who are passionate about wine, but starting a wine brand, I feel like, is like a whole other step. But it's not just something anyone can do. So can you tell us kind of a little bit about what that was like and what you found to be the hardest thing about starting a wine brand? Yeah, you know, I. I joke with people because everyone was like, oh, my God, you should totally go into wine. You're obviously so passionate about wine. And, you know, for the longest time, basically all I said was, look, I've figured out how to spend money on wine. I've never figured out how to make money on wine, and those are two very different things. But about a year ago, you Know, and I'd been working in the software space for the previous decade to that. And about a, about a year ago, I started seeing basically data and information and theses that were coming out of the wine industry that were saying, hey, wine industry, you're doing this whole marketing thing wrong. And, you know, and Rob McMillan over at the SVB bank, the report that they put out every year, you know, which is very much geared toward, I think, a domestic wine consumption audience and the producers, you know, predominantly in California, that the report is for. And it was a blueprint that basically said, look, we are noticing a trend amongst alcohol types that people are shifting, especially younger people, Gen Z, millennial people who, who drink alcohol are shifting away from wine and into either ready to drink cocktails or hard seltzers. And the question was, well, why is that happening? Right? And the answer was, because they are doing a much better job of marketing their products to this audience. And as a marketer and a wine lover, I'm thinking, well, this is an opportunity, right, because the wine industry is just so staid and traditionalist and slow moving and, and reticent to do anything to kind of shake this image of, you know, kind of bourgeois, French infused classism associated with drinking, you know, what is not supposed to necessarily be a drink, only for the elites, you know what I mean? Right. And so I looked at it and said, I just think that there's a real business opportunity and it would mean, though, building a brand that is different, I think, than many of the brands that we see on the shelves today. You saw that and that is basically what took you to like, I want to create a wine brand and I want to, you know, I just, I want to get wine out there to. The people I think it was coming from. In my specific case, I'm very much interested in trying to leave the world in a bit of a better place. And so I realized that there was an opportunity to actually create a brand that had much more environmental intention behind it without the brand needing to only appeal to an eco buyer. Okay, we'll definitely hit on. I love the environmental impact. I definitely want to talk about that. I want to go back just one second because I love the idea of thinking of like, you know, obviously there is the wine world and we tend to think of it as just wine, but it's also a business. And so there are these pieces to it that we need to keep in mind. And so I'm curious, with all of your experience in, you know, I know you've done like startups and like you said, tech companies, and you've been in the marketing space for those. How is marketing different and maybe the same as well in the wine world compared to those worlds? So this is a great question and I feel actually very passionately about my response to this. I might answer certain questions emphatically because I'm just very much of an extrovert and I like to talk with my hands in a. All that stuff. People can't see that necessarily right now, but trust me, I'm talking with my hand movement. Yes, there's lots of hand movement, lots of hand movement. But, you know, I think one of the classic mistakes that is made by organizations across the board, this can be a software company that's selling their software to other businesses, or it can be a consumer products company, a CPG company. It could be a. Specifically an alcohol beverage company, specifically a wine company. I see the same thing every. Everywhere, which is that the company attempts to use its differentiation on product attributes as its main message to the market. Okay. And in software, you know, it's speeds and feeds, right? It's. This is what our, you know, oh, well, we can do it a little bit faster, cheaper, you know, kind of thing, right? And in wine, it ends up being all about some of the specific attributes of the product itself, right? Well, you know, our wine gets more points because we are better, you know, our grapes, the way that our process, the way we make our wine. And, you know, the result is this, you know, bouquet, and we're just on product features. That's the only thing that people are talking about. And then when I step back and look at what are brands that are successful, what are the companies that actually get big and make a difference for both their shareholders and potentially for the impact that they can make on the world. And they always have one thing in common to me, which is that they mean more to the customer than this product differentiation at the product level that everyone seems to be obsessed over when they have their own company for the thing, right? And wine, I think actually probably fall, falls prey to this more so than. Than other industries because of the wine education culture behind it. All, right. And, and like if you have your own winery and then you make your own wine, you're probably pretty obsessed with wine, right? Like you probably are. You are not at all connected to the, the market of what average buyers actually think and feel. You are talking a totally different language and you are dorking out about product in a way that is completely foreign to most people. Right? That would be even your own customers, the people that would actually be enjoying buying and consuming your product. So I do think that there is a disconnect actually in the wine world where basically almost every brand thinks that they are selling to wine explorers and wine collectors. Yeah. And yet that part of the market is actually small, like 20% of like the total consumption market, maybe more, a little more in the dollar value of it because you're spending more. Right. But 80% of the consumption market. And I have stats data that pulled together to. I'm not making this up on the spot. This is actual stuff. Right. 80% of the, of the consumption market domestically in the U.S. if you have your own winery and then you make your own wine, you're probably pretty obsessed with wine. Right? Like you probably are. You are not at all connected to the, the market of what average buyers actually think and feel. You are talking a totally different language and you are dorking out about product in a way that is complet. Foreign to most people. Right. That, that, that would be even your own customers, the people that would actually be enjoying, enjoying buying and consuming your product. So I do think that there's like I, I do think that there is a disconnect actually in, in the, in the wine world where basically almost every brand thinks that they are selling to wine explorers and wine collectors. Yeah. And yet there is, and yet that part of the market is actually small, like 20% of like the total consumption market, maybe more, a little more in the dollar value of it because you're spending. Right. But 80% of the consumption market. And I have stats and data that I've pulled together to pull. I'm not making this up on the spot. This is actual stuff. Right. You know, 80% of the, of the consumption market domestically in the US is, is lifestyle drinkers. And then value drinkers, you know, value drinkers are like, it could be wine or it could be something else. It just needs to be cheap and it needs to get me where I'm kind of going. Right, Right. Which most brands totally discount, but there's like a huge amount of volume that's actually going out into that type of product and in those brands. And then the lifestyle buyer is somebody who maybe is discerning about the difference between good wine and not good wine. They don't necessarily have a big wine education or a vocabulary for it, but they maybe they know what type of grape they like and they are willing to pay a little bit more to make sure that they're going to get that. Right. So they're not spending $10 on a bottle. They're maybe spending $20 on a bottle of wine. Right. And Maybe they'll spend $35 on a bottle of wine if it's for an occasion or they're getting a gift or something like that because they want to show it off. That is my buyer. My buyer is a lifestyle buyer. I myself am a collector. Right. So I need to make sure as an owner of this brand that I am marketing to my buyer and not to myself. And I think that the big mistake that a lot of brands end up making or winemakers end up making is they think that their wine is only for their type of person, and it's probably not. Yeah, I think there were so many things that I was thinking about as you were going through that, because I feel like that's been a common theme with people I've talked to on here about, especially with this, like, new generation of wine buyers and seeing that, like, you know, there's this fear of, like, are, like, younger people not drinking wine. And I think, you know, you said it well, it's like, they're not necessarily interested. They're not maybe they're not collecting. They're not, like, into, like, all the tasting notes. They're not into that. But I remember I had Tyler Ballier, she's the author of Rebel School of Wine, on recently, and she talked about how, like, we're talking about wine and talking about all these flavors of the wine, and that means nothing to most people. What they care about is, like, what's the story behind the wine? Like, what's something relatable to this? And I think the environmental impact is one thing that a lot of people, millennials, Gen Z, care a lot about. And those are things that a buyer can connect to. Not how many points did this wine get? And what are the, you know, what are the flavor bouquets, you know, happening? I think those are, you know, fun. And I love diving into tasting a wine and going through all of that. But also, sometimes I just want to drink a wine with friends, and I'm going to pick something that I think has a cool story, because that's what I'm going to tell them. I'm not going to open and be like, hey, this has flavors of passion fruit and guava. And aren't you excited to drink this? Yes. And fruits that I can describe only because they are things I've learned about tasting wine, but I've never even had the fruit. I don't even know. Oh, my God. So true. I've never had a passion fruit in my life. I have never eaten a black currant. Yep. Neither have I. Love the flavor profile in wine. Yep. It's like I clearly must like gooseberries because I love Sauvignon Blanc that has the gooseberry flavor. Have I had one? Nope. Don't know that. I just assume I know what it smells like. Now. Do you have to go to New Zealand to get the gooseberries? Because it comes in the flavor profile of the New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc. I don't even know. I legitimately don't know. Yeah. No, I think that's such a great point. And yes, marketing to like what people know. And I think it, it doesn't mean that we're like changing the wine industry and you can never talk about the flavor notes and the tasting notes again. It just means that it's like, I think like the entry point and like you talked about of like, why are people buying and how are you going to like differentiate your wine from others and make them actually interested? Yeah, that's exactly right. That's exactly right. And that to me, by the way, was a big learning, a big unlock in many ways around removing some of the then traditionalist constraints. Because once I'm then solving for what does this millennial Gen Z lifestyle wine drinker, what do they do and what do they care about and what resonates for them? And I really think about doing that. I'm now, of course I wouldn't then kind of do some of this traditional type of stuff because it's not going to necessarily matter to them and be relevant. Yeah. And because honestly, going back to like what you talked about in the beginning, like your competition, so to say, are the like the seltzers, they are the like ready canned cocktails ready to go. You know, you're kind of looking at like, that's your market you want to get into, not the already wine buyers. Like they've already got their wine that they're buying. That's right. I certainly need to be able to. You need to be able to put a bottle of currently up on a shelf next to other Sauvignon Blancs, whether it's in the chill box or it's out on display. And there needs to be a compelling reason why somebody is going to pick it up. Right. Actually touch it and then take it over to the register and buy it. Right. Or they're sitting at a bar and the by the glass pours are displayed. They've got the bottles out. Right. There has to be A reason why someone's going to go, hey, what's that? I've never heard of currently before because hardly anyone has yet, because it just started, but now I'm interested. Right. How do you go about doing that? So we've made a lot of really, I think, intentional and bold, you know, and beautiful choices around this. Yeah, I'll definitely have to show. When folks are listening to this, you gotta look up currently wine so you can see what the label looks like. Cause it's exactly what Daniel's talking about. Like, it's different. It is different than what you see. And we're gonna talk a little bit about the format of it as well, which you can't tell until you're touching it, I think. But we'll definitely talk about that. I want to hit on. And I think you've called out a lot of this already, but I just want to give you a chance to say anything else on this topic. You call yourself a disruptive wine brand. And I know, I feel like that's like, it's like a keyword right now and people love to use it. But I think it. It does mean something when people choose to say that. And so what does that mean for you for being disruptive? Well, I mean, again, my mission in creating this brand is to create a brand that can become big and popular on alternative packaging with a carbon footprint reduction focus. Right. I think that the wine industry can lower its carbon footprint by over 50%, by over half, if it changes some of the ways that it then packages and distributes, you know, and grows and makes wine. But packaging is the big piece of it. It's the big piece of it. And so there's a bit of a mountain to climb there. Because I think for some people, and probably most people, there is an assumption that wine that is not in a heavy glass bottle is inferior in quality to wine that is in a heavy glass bottle. And so taking on some of that burden without taking on the entire educational burden about carbon footprint of glass and not glass and all that stuff is partly what, you know, I think that we're trying to do with the brand. And I think that the people that are then excited about the brand, some of them are just like, oh, my God, I love this wine because it's this really pretty bottle that I want people to see me with. Yeah. And even like reuse it as a water bottle kind of thing. Like, I'm seeing a lot of. Or like, use it to, like, you know, put a little candle in or something. People are like displaying them and stuff. It's, it's kind of taking on its own fashion accessory in a way that I didn't even fully appreciate it could. But there's also just, I think like some people aren't going to go all the way with you as a brand. Right. There's all of these intentional choices. Why are we making these choices? Why is the wine certified sustainable? Why is it certified vegan? Why do we support nearshore environmental causes? Why do we do this stuff? Right. And for those that are though interested in kind of like going down this journey of intention and the choices that we make as a brand matter, the choices you make as a consumer matter, where you spend your money matters. And we make a collective impact in that way. I'm looking for those people, you know, and they're going to find currently and they're going to tell others about currently. Yeah, no, I, I love it. All right. We're getting really close to. I really want to make sure we focus a lot on the sustainability because I think it's, it's so important. But I have one last question, and you hit on this a little bit earlier is so right now you are making one wine. It's a Sauvignon Blanc. And so it's a, it's a double question. First why Sauvignon Blanc? And then is there a future plan for more than Sauvignon Blanc? I'm so grateful to the sponsors who help make this podcast possible. And Today's sponsor is one I personally love wine.com you know, I'm all about exploring new wines, but let's be real, it's not always easy to find unique bottles, especially if you're limited to what's near you. That's why I love shopping on wine.com they have a huge selection wines at every price point, user friendly search features and real wine experts ready to help you find your next favorite bottle. And here's a special deal just for you as a podcast listener. Get free shipping on orders over $150 at wine.com corkfizz with promo code Corkfizz. My recommendation, build a mix of 6 to 12 bottles to try some, you know, some you never heard of. Not sure what to pick. Message me. I'd love to help or take advantage of the live chat wine experts@wine.com. Yes, I will answer the second question first because everyone is asking for a. Ooh, yay. And A is going to be coming in 2026. Certainly exciting. Okay. I do envision a four product portfolio for the brand there can certainly become more things, but I have a, you know, call a medium term roadmap that includes a sparkling white wine as well as a light drinking red blend that will be probably Pinot Noir or Grenache dominant. All of the wines are domestic. They are stylistically French in the way that they drink, which means that they're kind of leaning into a light, crisp, refreshing style. You know, a red that would be served lightly chilled. Right. In that way, they're all zero grams of sugar and they're all certified sustainable and vegan. That's what we're kind of building with the brand. So the first question was just around though. The. Yeah. Why choose. Why choose Sauvignon Blanc for your. So Sauvignon Blanc is, is one of the bright spots in the wine industry's consumption trends, actually. And if you then narrow your view to people that are between the ages of 25 and 45 and those people in this view know this, by the way, Savvy Bee is where it's at. So true. Like, I mean, like, if you look at the overall macro consumption trends, Chardonnay and, and Pinot Grigio are the two largest consumed grape varieties by volume. Just overall. Sure. That are of, of white wine. And I wanted a wine that was going to be able to be enjoyed in these coastal lifestyle circumstances. Right. Sure. And so warm weather. Savvy. Be kind of. All this stuff kind of goes together. Right. If you're living your best coastal lifestyle, what are you doing? It's beach, it's pool. Right. It's boat, it's fire pit, it's hike. Right. It's all that kind of stuff. Like, hashtag, lake life, you know, it's all that kind of stuff. And you want a cold crushable white for that. Right. And it's like, no offense to anyone's grandma, but like, that's the only person that anyone freaking knows that drinks Chardonnay anymore. You know, me and your grandma were over there drinking Chardonnay. So, you know, and again, I'm not here to pass judgment certainly on anybody, on what they drink. I'm all about bring it on. And if you want to add ice cubes to it, great, go ahead. You know, I'm, I'm literally very much not that person who's, who's judging, but just in terms of, again, this is the customer we're going after. This is the profile of person that we're going after and delivering a, you know, Sancerre, which is, as some of your audience probably knows, but you know, Sancerre, which is a region in the Loire in France that makes world class Sauvignon Blanc. Sancerre to me is like the aspiration wine of my target buyer. And I am delivering with currently a light Sancerre style wine. Right. It sips more like this. But it's also useful to communicate and signal to people, oh, Sancerre. Because that's the, that's kind of, that's a, an important brand term. Right. It's a geography, but it becomes, you know, France. Yeah. And it has. Yeah. It means something when you hear that. Something. Right. You know, so. And then people who actually know things about wine in the industry, who taste wine all the time, buy wine for, you know, they taste currently and they go, oh, yeah, this is a, this is more of a, of a French style. This is like a Sansa. I get, I get that for sure. Right. Yeah. And that's very helpful, I think, to communicate. So we're going to continue to try to do things that emulate, from a flavor profile perspective, some of the what I consider to be kind of classic wines coming out of, out of France. So very, almost ironically, I'm sure that the, this brand will be viewed by the industry as being different and, you know, attempting to, to stand out and, you know, disrupt in that way. Right. And kind of paving a new path for other brands to move into alternative packaging. So that's all this kind of like, oh, rebel thing going on. Daniel's this Rebel. And then of course, the irony is that he's delivering, you know, dry, classic French style, very traditional. Right. You know, which, and the reason I'm doing that is because it is broadly appealing and delicious and timeless. Right? Yes, timeless. Right. So, yeah, I certainly don't think I'm trying to reinvent the wheel in any way on the actual wine itself. Yeah. Because you don't need to. It's good. There's already great stuff out there and, you know, or they already know. They figured it out. Right. Sansaire figured out the blueprint and you just have to be like, all right, great, let's do that with California grapes. Exactly. Find cool growing regions. Find places that aren't going to then over, you know, overdo it on some of the, you know, the sun exposure and the length of the ripening season and the, you know, I mean. Yeah. You know, and California, I mean, people have to fully appreciate too, that like, California as a grape growing region is both enormous and varied. It's not Napa Valley only. Right. But it's not true that all California wine tastes like the gigantic big ripe red fruit bombs coming out of some of these amazing places in. In Napa. That's. You know what I mean? That's not true. So I'm excited to kind of deliver people something that is both not needing to be shipped halfway around the world if we don't have to be right, and still, you know, carries the California name and we're in the central coast, you know, and then maybe surprises them a little bit because then they're like, oh my God, this is, you know, they don't necessarily have to have the words for it, you know, but they're just like, this is easy to love. This is. This is great. You know, I'm like, yeah, that's all you need to know and say is that, you know. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. No, I love it. I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Cork and Fizz Guide to Wine podcast. Be sure to check out Kirk currently wine@currently wine.com you have a 20 discount to use. As a listener of this podcast, you can use code corkampersand fizz20. You'll get 20% off your order. If you love this episode as much as I did, I'd love it if you could take a quick second to rate it and leave a review. And if you know a wine lover in your life that would enjoy this, please share it with them. In next week's episode, you'll hear part 22 of my interview with Daniel where we talk about sustainability efforts that currently is making to have a positive impact on the environment. How currently makes their wine and ensures high quality while focusing on sustainability, the benefits to using aluminum bottles over glass, Daniel's Go to Bottle of Wine to bring to a dinner party and so much more. Thanks again for listening and if you want to learn more about wine, come follow me at Cork and Fizz on Instagram. And if you're interested in exploring new wines and joining an incredible community of wine lovers, be sure to sign up for my virtual tasting club, the Cork crew. Head to thecourtcrew.com to learn more and use code winespecial to get your first two months for just $8 a month. Cheer.