The Simple Framework for Understanding Any Wine Label w/ Marie Cheslik (Part 2)

Ep 135

What if the easiest way to pick better wine has been sitting on the bottle this whole time?

Learning how to read a wine label doesn’t have to feel overwhelming. In my conversation with Marie, she breaks down her approachable, beginner-friendly system that she teaches in her new book “How to Read a Wine Label.” It’s a method built around three core concepts that can help anyone predict how a wine will taste before ever pulling the cork. She explains how to spot Old World vs. New World styles, how climate affects flavor, and why grape skin thickness matters more than you think.

You’ll also hear why she intentionally kept the book short, what she chose to leave out (and why), and how she hopes this knowledge empowers people to move beyond choosing wine by the “cute label.” This episode is full of simple, repeatable tips that make wine shopping far less intimidating, so that the next time you are staring at a wall of wine, you’ll actually know what you are looking for.

And if you missed last week’s episode, go back and listen to part 1 of my chat with Marie. 

Thank you to the following brands for sponsoring this podcast:

• Vacu Vin: Go to us.vacuvin.com and use code CORKANDFIZZ for 20% off your order!
• Bon Chocolats: Go to www.bonchocolats.com and use code CORKANDFIZZ10 for 10% off your order!
• Last Bottle: Go to www.lastbottlewines.com and use code CORKANDFIZZ for 10% off your order! (And be sure to sign up for their mailing list so you never miss a bottle!)

Connect with Marie

• Instagram - @slikwines
• Marie’s Book - How to Read a Wine Label
• Website - https://www.slikwines.com/

Episode Highlights:

• Why so many people choose wine based on the label
  
  
• The three concepts that instantly help you predict taste (Old World vs. New World, climate, grape skin thickness)
  
  
• How to spot meaningful info on a label vs. marketing tactics
  
  
• Why the book focuses only on what beginners actually need
  
  
• How repeated core concepts build confidence when shopping for wine
  
  
• What Marie hopes to change about the way people choose wine bottles
  
  
• Why aged wines aren’t automatically “better”

Transcript

0:09

Interested in learning about wine but not sure where to start? You're in the right place. Welcome to the Cork and Fizz Guide to Wine Podcast. I'm your host, Hayley Bowlman, and I'm so glad you're here. I'm a wine enthusiast turned wine educator and and founder of the Seattle based wine tasting business Cork and Fizz. It is my goal to build your confidence in wine by making it approachable and lots of fun. You can expect to learn everything from how to describe your favorite wine to what to pair with dinner tonight and so much more. Whether you're a casual wine sipper or a total cork dork like myself, this podcast is for you. So grab yourself a glass and let's dive in. Hello and welcome back to the Cork and Fizz Guide to Wine Podcast. I am so glad to have you here today. You'll be listening to part two of my interview with Marie Cheslik. If you haven't heard part one, I highly recommend pausing this episode and going to listen to episode 134 from first. Don't worry, I will be here for you once you finish that episode. As a reminder, Marie Cheslick is an author, sommelier and content creator under the name Slick Wines, which is the tail end of her last name. She's worked as a Michelin Star Wine director and was awarded Future 40 by wine enthusiasts for her refreshing take on wine education. Her new book, how to Read a Wine Label helps people to understand what a wine will taste like without having to open it. In this episode, we're going to talk more about the information that you can expect to find in her new book. Consider it like a little preview how her book differs from other educational wine books out there and Marie's Go to Bottle of Wine to Share with Friends and of course, so much more. Let's get into it. I want to take us now to talking about wine labels. Right? So your new book, like the whole reason we're here. Right. We should probably get. We're having a good time. It's fine. It's fine. Okay. New book, how to Read a Wine Label, which is available for purchase as folks are listening to this great Christmas gift. If you're listening to this when this comes out, let's talk a little bit. I know you kind of mentioned the inspiration for the book, but can you dive a little bit more in of like, what inspired writing this book? I just heard too many times, too many people joked with me that, oh, I just bought this wine because I thought the label was cute. Oh, There's a cat on the label. It looks like my cat. Oh, I thought the font was cool. I liked the colors. It's like, yes, totally. But just things I had learned in restaurant world concepts like new world and old world concepts, like cool climate, warm climate, and even grape skin thickness. Those are kind of like the three big concepts that I'm like, these will help you, guide you in a direction to know what a wine will taste like without opening it. Recognizing keywords, understanding some of the numbers on there is also helpful. And that was really the inspiration for the book. It's just like, I heard it. It's a. It's a pain point for so many people. Just like, even the COVID itself is just like, it needs to be the scenario where people are having this pain point exactly. At a wall of wine. And you just pick one and you go, I don't know. I don't know. I just picked it because I thought it was cute. Right, right. Everything was inspired by what people have just been telling me my whole career. Yeah, no, I love it. And I think, too, because I remember one of the first things I like when I started teaching people about, like, recommendations for buying wine. I'm like, just know that the label is marketing, right? So if they're. If it's bright colors, if it's got a cute animal on it, if it's got something like that, it is trying to draw your attention to that bottle, you know, and that doesn't necessarily mean it's bad. I did, you know, in the beginning, I'll always say, like, maybe stray away from the ones that are, like, really trying to get your attention with the label, because it might mean they spent more money on the label than they did, you know, making the wine. But then the next question is, okay, so what do I grab? And it's like, oh, okay, yeah, sorry. Let me think about that a little bit. Like, what you should actually reach for. Ye. Well, even I have a lot of examples of, like, really simple labels. And, like, I have the chicken wine in there, so. But it's the chicken wine for all Americans. But the idea that, like, a wine can still have, like, a markety label, but they still have to put information on there that will tell you something about it. So you see La Vie Ferme, and it says wine of France. It used to say wine of Rhone, but now it says wine of France. And so you go, okay, French wine. French wine is in the old world. It's more likely going to have this sort of restrained, subtle, tart fruit or earthy aspect to it. So people who like a dry wine, I put that in big quotes because that can mean a lot of things. But generally when people like a dry wine, people will like the chicken wine. Or there's a wine with. I call it the space cat wine. But there's a wine with. Have you seen this wine? It's. I don't think I've seen this. No. It's called Felicia. It's a vindipay. So it's like a generalized. Also kind of like vin de France type thing. So it's like a bunch of grapes from southern France around like Provence and Languedoc and. Yeah, they just named it after one of like the first cats who went to space, I guess, like Russia sent a cat to space or something crazy like that. So it's like the wine is a label of a cat with an astronaut outfit on. It's very cute. But it still has to say wine of France. And you. And you look at it and go, it's a red wine. And then you go, let's look at the color. Like, is it dark? Can you not read through it? Can you read through it? And it's like, great. That will probably tell you something. Rough Day is another one. It's a picture of a bulldog and it just says ruff. Rough day. Haha. Dog. Get it? I bet they sell a ton of wine because it's a great label and it's a funny idea because you want a bottle of wine after a rough day. I get it. Genius. But they have to put wine of California. Okay. California's in the New World. And usually New World is juicier. And people who generally might like a sweeter wine. I'm putting that in quotes again. These are things I address later. You are more likely to want to go in that direction. Yeah. Simple things like that. Yeah. It's amazing how I love how you break it down to just the simpleness of. Because knowing where the wine is from for me definitely tells me a lot because I have an idea of what those regions are. But you don't even have to know necessarily each region specifically. This is stuff that you're sharing with. Just all you need to know. Old World Europe, that means tart fruit, more earthy flavors. If you don't want your wine to taste like super fruity or like we said, sometimes we associate it with sweet, even if there's no sugar. Right. But if you don't want a lot of that and you prefer something that's a little maybe toned down or something to go with food. Old World, Europe. And then it's like. And then all you need to know is any place other than Europe, New World, right? It's going to be fruitier. It's going to be something like. At least to me, I think New World as well, is something that, like, is nice on its own. It doesn't always need food. And, like, that's all you need. You don't necessarily. Like, you could dive into each region and that could be your next step, but you don't. You're just breaking it down into those two different categories. Exactly. And that's why the book is short, too. Some of the feedback I got, we sent this book to 80 early readers. Were you one of them? No. Damn. I was like, damn, I wish you were. But some of the feedback I got was like, this is great. The purpose of the book is complete. This is a selfish request, but I just wish there was more. And I was like, I don't want there to be more. This is an act of restraint. Because I see with so many wine books, they're all 2 inches big. They're all an inch big. They're all like, 300 pages. And even if they talk about wine labels in it, it's only for, like, five pages of it. And it's like, there are so many great books that I cannot make that. Do a great job of diving into each region. And then even if you want to go dive deeper into a specific region, buy a JonBenet book, you know, buy that New French, you know, like, there are so many people who think they are going introductory, but I'm just like, no. Like, this is the restraint I've taught. I've taught you how to do one thing, and it's to read a wine label. And I have done that in this book. And now that you know that, go in whatever direction you are interested in. And some people are like, you should add a winemaking section. I'm like, absolutely not. Most people do not give a shit about that. Like, but if you do, there are a lot of great books about winemaking go there. Like, my book is the 0 to 1. It's the springboard for all other wine books. It's the springboard for getting people into Kermit lynch wines and Rosenthal wines. There are some Kermit lynch books or wines in here, but in general, it is like the introductory stuff. Like the Gallows and the CO Brands is the Louis Jadot, and the Barefoot Snoop Dogg's wine is in there. Nice. You know, La Marca Prosecco is in there. Like, I really just hit, like, the heavy hitters. And then I go a little bit beyond that. I'm like, okay, Lambert Risco. Ever heard of that? You probably. You probably would like that. You know? So it's like, do that, and then we're done. Yeah, that's it. We're good. That's such a good point, because I feel like when I'm thinking about. Because, like, one of my questions was, how is this different from other educational wine books? And I feel like you've kind of hit on that right there. And it's like, the big thing is because I buy a lot of wine books. I love wine books. I dig into them, but many of them become like coffee table books, more so than actually useful. Not useful, but, like, not something I will just sit down and read. Right. And so it's sounding like for your book, you're hoping people like, this is. It's short enough. It's straight to the point. It's one kind of topic that people can read this cover to cover, get a little education, and then go back to it as a resource book. But it's meant to be. Learn something. Don't just come to this book every time you want to learn about. You can look up a chapter or something like that. Exactly. I see you have Carrie MacNeil's the Wine Bible on your shelf. That's a classic. I read that. So starting as a sommelier in a restaurant, like, that's the context, though, right? Like, the Wine Bible is perfect for professionals because you should start to understand the specifics of each region. But this book, it's for maybe, like, really beginner professionals who, like, just got their first kind of fancy wine job, and they're a little intimidated by the encyclopedia of Karen McNeil's the Wine Bible, which is a great book. Oh. But it's. It's very dense. So it's like, why don't you start here? Start here with my book and then go from there and to your point of being like a coffee table book. This is something I talked with my publisher about for everyone who's not watching. But you hear that that's a nice hardcover book. And my publisher was really big on, like, look, this is basically a picture book, and people will want to show it off. And she's like, I know you wanted to, like, to maybe just, like, be accessible, and maybe paperback feels more accessible to you. She's like, but it should be something that can be, like, shown off, too. So we hit this, like, really beautiful middle ground of like a very crispy, delicious looking book. Because that's also. People buy books as bar cart books, as coffee table books too. So it's like a little bit of the marketing aspect of it, but I do think it's a very good product. Like, if people really wanted to learn something about wine, I think that's the best shot that people have to start. Yeah. And then, yeah, if you want to just treat it like a bar cart book, then hell, yeah. Love that too. I love it. Okay, I want to ask one more question. Well, maybe one or two. We'll see what we have time for. Yeah. Thinking about the wine labels. So we kind of talked about, you know, the old world, new world. You talk about that. You know, it's honestly a question I have because I'm like, labels are so confusing. There are so many different ways that they can be written. They look like they're in a foreign language because they literally are. A lot of the time, sometimes it's a different language. A lot of the time. Yeah. How did you go about developing a system for understanding a label for beginners? Yes, great question. Basically, on every label. I don't address every single thing on the label because for the Bordeaux and Burgundy, it's too easy to get granular. And what I mean by that is that they love putting a lot of words on Burgundy wine labels. And they're very specific about, especially the Bordeaux ones, too. They put things like Grand Cru classe A, and then you're like, shit. Do I really have to break down where this came from, what that means? It's essentially a quality level. It maintained a certain level of quality. Do I have to talk about Napoleon? Like, how far back do I go to really people have people understand why this exists and why it's on a label. But like, even modern French wine drinkers, people who are 21 drinking wine in France right now, they don't care about that stuff. Like, this is like such an old school concept to me, and it's so not beginner. It's not. It doesn't make any sense to anyone. So for me, it's like, I leave some of that stuff out. And people also commented on them being like, oh, you should have a chart, like wine folly does, of like, quality designation levels. I'm like, we're not there. I said, no, no. People also, their eyes glaze over when I start talking about that too. No, no, no. I've cut all of that out. I've done these conversations enough where I basically wrote the book of if people are engaged with me, I'm putting it in the book. But the second their eyes glaze over, I'm like, nope. But nope, we're done. And that's usually winemaking and designation levels and getting the hyper specifics on region. So the building block concepts are the things I usually always cover in the label. So that's new world or old world. So I say wine of Italy. And I will say it again and again. The analogy I give. My dad's an engineer, so maybe this is like, was too specific. But I remember doing like math problems with my dad when I was like in middle school and high school. And the only way you get better at doing math problems is doing a million math problems. And you kind of do the same things over and over again. And as soon as you finish one, my dad would be like, okay, great, I just made another one. I'll do that one. And then I'm like crying on the kitchen table at like 2 o' clock in the morning doing math problems like, dad, stop, please. You know, so it's like kind of the same thing where I'm like, I know we talked about this, but Italy is in the old world. And old world means this, like just totally being like, we're just going to repeat concepts. And that's good because people need to see it in different scenarios in different languages. You know, France is old world, Italy is old world. They both kind of mean this, right? And so addressing that, addressing cold climate versus warm climate, even being like Chianti, that's a bad example because it's like one of the few moderate climates. Annoying. It's so Mediterranean. I was like, I wish I could put this in a binary, but I can't. And I even talk about that too. But it's like Burgundy, generally cold climate, like generally cooler climates are going to be more acid. It's going to make your mouth water a bit more. It's going to be like biting into a green tomato as opposed to a warmer climate like Napa Valley, that's going to be more like biting into a juicy red tomato. So like sweets and like, yeah, just like juicier, fruitier flavors. So that's another analogy I have in the book, the tomato analogy. And then grape thickness. Okay, this is a Pinot Noir. Pinot Noir is a thin skinned grape. Grape skins contain tannin and pigment. So if a grape has less skin, that means it's going to have less tannin and less pigment. Pigment is just color. So if it's lighter in body it's probably thin skin grape. It's probably going to taste this way. And then doing that with Cabernet, I, like, kind of hit the heavy hitters of Cabernet. And what else did I put on there? Syrah. Like, things that, like, I usually see on a grocery store shelf is the grapes I included in there. So those are the three big categories I'll always kind of hit if it says it on a label. And then also, like, specialty things. Like, I have a Trachen. I have a German Riesling that says Trochan on there. And I'm like, this is purely German. They only do this in Germany. But you should know trochan means dry. So if you're ever confused, that's helpful, right? And then, yeah, I will do, like, specific or if I think it's interesting to the story. I'm like, reading through this, being like, what did I put in here? Am I blacking out? Like, oh, like, there's a picture of the estate on the label. It's like, this is a very old world thing. But sometimes they do that in the new world because I have Carneros, which is actually owned by, like, a French company, but they put the picture of the estate on the labeling. This is very old world. But like, this is also. Let's get into a little bit of that nuance, but just like a taste of it each time. But I'm really hammering these core concepts for every label that presents it. And then being like, okay, Barolo. Barolo is kind of worth talking about because it is like a bigger wine region. And like, I will take you to a place briefly and like, this is what you can expect from a Barolo. Something that people will see in a grocery store or maybe a nice grocery store, but. And like a wine list in a restaurant, right? Yeah. So hit the core concepts and then anything else that I think either makes for a good story or is helpful to know about that region. Yeah, no, I love it. How do you hope this book changes the way people shop for wine? I love producing this podcast for you every week, but here's the truth. It's not free. That's why I'm so grateful for sponsors like the following brands supporting me so. So that I can share everything I love about wine with you. If you're able, show them some support back. Today's podcast is brought to you by Last Bottle Wines, a Napa Valley based online wine shop with a super fun twist. Some of the best bottles I've ever opened, like the ones my friends still talk about to this day came from last Bottle wines and I love the moment when they're like this is incredible. And I get to say yep. And while it's usually an$80 wine, I I only paid 25. 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Making beautiful bonbons and confections with fine chocolate in all natural ingredients. They make the perfect gift. Visit their local shop in Bothel or order online at bonchocolatz.com and use code corkandfiz10 for 10% off. Anyone else guilty of opening a bottle of wine for just one glass and then finding it a week later in the fridge? Totally undrinkable. Yeah, that used to happen to me all the time until I started using the Vacuvin Wine Saver. It's so simple to use, easy to throw in my bag if I'm heading to a friend's. And it keeps wine fresh for up to 10 days. Proven by independent lab testing. Vacuvin invented the original Wine Saver back in 1986, and now over 40 million wine lovers around the world use it. With Vacuvin, you get to enjoy wine on your terms. Open Italian red for Tuesday pasta night. It'll taste just as good a week later with pizza. Go to us.vacuvin.com and use code Cork and Fizz for 20% off your first order. Never been asked that. I I would like for people to see the wines that they drink in this book. I want them to see chicken wine, I want them to see LaMarca, and I want them to go, okay, maybe I'll try a Different Prosecco. Oh, wow. Wouldn't that be amazing? Even if it was like five or ten dollars more, Just being like, does this taste any different to you? Do you like this one more? Does this make you want to try other sparkling wines? Like, now you realize that Prosecco comes from Italy. Okay, here's a sparkling wine from another part of the world. Yeah, maybe I'll like that. Oh, it's German. German is part of the old world. And I like another old world sparkling wine. Maybe I should try that. That would be like that. That gay just, like, gave me chills. Like, that is the thing where I'd. Be like, yeah, like, I'd be like. Cheering you on in the back in the Trader Joe's. Get the Zach. Just the same price, you know, cheaper. I think probably, like, it's just. That would be the ultimate win. I don't expect that. But that would be the coolest thing that could happen. Yeah, it's like, that's the baby step I really want to see. Instead of people being like, you should try the Pinot Meunier from Champagne. Now it's like, no, stop. No, we're not there yet. We're really, you know, we're getting there, but we're not there yet. Like, oh, you should try Negociant from Champagne. It's like, no, it's like, I get it, they're both sparkling, but like, the LaMarca person's not gonna go for champagne mainly because of price difference, but also because they don't know what they're paying for with that price difference. Right, right. I feel like it's basically giving them the confidence to then to start making those next steps. It feels like, Right. And because that's what I'm always encouraging people is like, okay, know enough about the bottle that you like. So then you can try another bottle that's next to it. Right. Or that's in the same category, which is a lot of what you were talking about where like, okay, if you can know that Prosecco is a sparkling wine from an old world region, you know, hopefully that could give you the confidence to like, be like, oh, are there other sparkling wines from old world regions? Could I try those? Right. To like, basically take the next step. Because that's the biggest thing, I mean, I've heard from. I remember hearing a story from like, I worked with somebody in marketing for a while and she was like, my mother in law was coming over. I knew she liked Sauvignon Blanc. I knew she liked the Kim Crawford Sauvignon Blanc. And I looked at all the other, you know, New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc wines, but I just couldn't get myself to do it. And I grabbed the Kim Crawford. Right. And so my hope is that, like, you know, your book and things like that will give people the confidence to say, like, okay, she says that, like, you know, this is what I'd expect. New Zealand is New World. It has that fresh, juicy flavor. There's a good chance I'm going to grab a different one. Yeah, totally. It's a good chance. If I grab a different one, it's going to be similar. There may be some differences, but it's worth trying. Yep, yep, yep. Love it. Okay. I know we could ask so many more questions, but we need to finish this off. I have at the end of every podcast, I do what I call a speed round, or I guess at the end of every interview with my. With my guests. It's not like buzzer in, answer as fast as you can. It's more like, I mean, you're welcome to do that, but it's more like, don't think about it too hard because. Otherwise, I got you. It'll take a while. First thing that comes to mind sounds exactly. Okay. Favorite wine at the moment. Champagne. I'm so talking about all the champagne. I can't. If I could drink something every day for the rest of my life, I'm sorry. It would just be like a really great age champagne. It's good. It's annoyingly expensive, and I will pay it almost every time. It's horrible. I am a sucker. It is true. It is so good. Okay, how about a go to bottle of wine to bring to a dinner party or to share with friends? God, it just totally depends on who I'm bringing it to. But I would say, in general, it's going to be a white wine. In general, it's going to be a good value because either you're going to be like, you're going to impress the wine people who already know, or it's just going to be like, people who don't know anything. Go, I've never heard of this. And I'm like, it was 16 or it was 18. I'll be like, oh, my God, it was so good. You know, so. But it's probably something white. I just. I like sparkling and white wines, and I think they do good at parties. So. Yes. Okay, how about favorite wine region you've ever visited? I've ever visited? Yes. Wow, man. I don't know. I was just in Montalcino. And I've never. Well, when I was in Abruzzo. Wow, look at me. I get to go places now. Isn't that cool? But damn, like, Tuscany really is. That's in. That's where Montalcino is. It's in Tuscany and Italy. It's really. It's just as beautiful as everyone says. There's a reason why people, like, write books and make movies about Tuscany. It is just like the Garden of Eden. It's just an incredible place. I really do like it there. I would like to go back. All right, flip side, wine region you'd like to visit that you haven't been to yet. I'd like to go to like Georgia or Armenia. Like, I'd love to check out, like. Like Eastern Europe would be super cool. I have a Georgian co worker, believe it or not, at the hospital, and she bought my book and I gave a little shout out to the Republic of Georgia. And she sent me a text and she was like, yes. Because I was like, the French really get all the credit for marketing wine globally. But the people who made the first wine, really, it's that. That's the Republic of Georgia. And she's like, yeah. I'd love to go there. And I'd love to go there with her. So if she's listening, we're planning that. That'd be cool. Her family makes wine. They. They seem really cool. So, yeah, I love it. Okay, last two questions. If you were given a thousand dollars to spend on wine, how would you go about it? We don't need to know obviously the exact bottles, but, like, what would be your mindset to spend the. The money? It would be like classic things. I've never had the chance to like, these, like, old school producers like O Brion, like all of these kind of like sommelier wines that they're like to. Before you die. I'm like, fine. I would. It just is expensive. Yeah. Otherwise I'm buying aged Cote Durone or I'm buying a Champagne. I'm sorry, it's all in France. I'm just. I'm there right now. I just. The. One of the most interesting bottles I ever had was a. It was when I was working at Elka in the restaurant, someone brought in a roasting. It's like a very specific, well known Southern Rhone producer from Cote Roti, which is like a fabulous place that they make wine there. And it was from like the 70s. And there was this really distinct. I've used this as a tasting note before for other wines, but like dried Tabasco Top, like, okay. Or dried cholula top. So it's like the wooden ball on the top of the cholula hot sauce bottle with, like, the dried hot sauce on it. And I'm like, what a weird thing to get. And I've never. Whenever I get a wine where I'm like, what an oddly specific but also really cool tasting note, I was just like, I'm. That's my holy grail. Like, I'm always trying to find that again. I'm like, if a wine can bring up, like, a weird scent memory like that for me, I'm like, that's it. That's very memorable. So I'd spend a thousand dollars to find one of those. Yeah. To get one of those. Okay, last question. What is one wine myth that bugs you the most? That aged wines are better. I know. I was just talking about a bunch of aged wines. You have to like it. You. It's a very particular taste, and just because. And aged wines are generally more expensive. So it could also be the conversation of expensive wines taste better. But wines are generally expensive because they have some age on them a lot of the time, because you're paying for the age, essentially. But aged wines can really end up tasting, like, sherry or, like, Madeira. This kind of, like, old wallet or chestnuts or, like, you know, almondy thing. It's like a very specific old man potpourri thing that you have to like. And a lot of people don't like that, especially people starting out in wine. People like, this wine tastes disgusting. Like, I would. I would like. Are you crazy? People actually want to drink this? Yeah. But then as you. I don't know. Just like any acquired taste. Like, when you're a kid, coffee tastes gross. Then you're like, I like it. And now that has happened to me where I'm like, oh, yeah, I do like all those things. Like an old, sweaty grandpa wallet. Right. You're like, that's great. You give that tasting note. I'm like, give me that wine. That's wonderful. But it is a personal. It is a personal. Right choice. Yeah. But most wines are delicious. Yeah. Like, it's okay that it's only two years old. Like, it's probably meant to be consumed now. That's okay. I love it. All right, well, that is everything I have. Thank you so much for joining me on the show and very excited for the book Will be coming very soon. I know it's on its way. I'm gonna. I'm gonna find out. We're gonna figure it out today. I love it. Sounds good. All right. All right. Thank you, Hayley. Appreciate it. See ya. Bye. I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Cork and Fizz Guide to Wine Pie podcast. If you haven't already, I highly recommend purchasing Marie's new book, how to Read a Wine Label. You can do so on Amazon or directly from her publishing company, Peridot Publishing. That's P E r I d o-t publishing.com marie-cheslake I'll go ahead and put that link in the show notes so you don't have to remember all that. Be sure to follow Marie on Instagram to continue learning about wine and to see her fun six 60 second blind tastings at Slick Wines. Slick is S L I k at Slick Wines. If you love this episode as much as I did and you are sick of hearing me say rate it and leave a review. Please just rate it and leave a review. If I get like a hundred reviews, I I swear I'll stop saying, but we need a lot of reviews. Let's do this, people. You can leave a review on Apple Podcasts. You can also just send me a message on on Instagram at Cork and Fizz. Or send me an email Haley at Cork and Fizz and let me know what you're liking about the podcast in next week's episode. We're getting into the Christmas spirit, so if you're listening to this during the holidays and when this comes out, it is right around the holidays when these are being released and the episode will be released on Christmas Eve. So I thought I'd take some inspiration from the 12 days of Christmas and instead share my 12 wines of 12, 2025. Now, obviously I've spent much of 2025 pregnant, but that doesn't mean I haven't tasted wines. And I did drink wines before I was pregnant this year, So I shared 12 of my favorite wines that I enjoyed in the year 2025. Thanks again for listening and if you want to learn more about wine, come follow me@corkandfizz on Instagram. Cheers.