Profitable Painter Podcast
Profitable Painter Podcast is a rich resource for anyone interested in starting, running, and scaling a professional painting business, offering valuable insights, strategies, and interviews with industry leaders. Through case studies and in-depth discussions, we deliver a vivid picture of the painting industry, with a disclaimer that any financial or tax information is general and not a substitute for professional advice.
Profitable Painter Podcast
One Estimator, Better Branding, And A 50-50 Mix Fueled Our Leap In Revenue
In this episode, Daniel sits down with Chad Turpen, owner of a thriving painting business in Indiana, to unpack how he grew from a one-man operation to a $3M powerhouse, all while staying true to his mission of raising the standard in the painting trade.
Chad opens up about the lessons learned from scaling, hiring the right team, and the importance of branding, marketing, and mindset in building a long-term, sustainable business. Whether you're just starting out or pushing past seven figures, this episode is full of hard-earned insights and real-world strategies that every contractor can learn from.
Tune in to discover:
- How Chad doubled revenue from $1.5M to $3M in just one year.
- The key hires and systems that unlocked explosive growth.
- How balancing residential and commercial work helps manage cash flow.
- Simple marketing moves, from door hangers to social media — that actually work.
- Why mindset and consistency matter more than any single tactic.
Subscribe now and learn how to build a painting business that grows profitably and sustainably, one episode at a time!
For being a loyal listener, I want to send you a copy of my new book Profitable Painter. Inside, I’ll show you the exact frameworks that have helped painting businesses save big on taxes, increase profits, and scale with confidence
Head over to profitablepaintercpa.com/book and grab your copy today. Don’t wait — this is my gift to you for being part of the Profitable Painter community.
Welcome to the Profitable Painter Podcast. The mission of this podcast is simple: to help you navigate the financial and tax aspects of starting, running, and scaling a professional painting business. From the brushes and ladders to the spreadsheets and balance sheets, we've got you covered. But before we dive in, a quick word of caution. While we strive to provide accurate and up-to-date financial and tax information, nothing you hear on this podcast should be considered as financial advice, specifically for you or your business. We're here to share general knowledge and experiences, not to replace the tailored advice you get from a professional financial advisor or tax consultant. We strongly recommend you seeking individualized advice before making any significant financial decision.
SPEAKER_01:Welcome to the Profitable Painter Podcast, the show where painting contractors learn how to boost profits, cut taxes, and build a business that works for them. I'm your host, Daniel Honan, CPA and former painting business owner in your guide to mastering the numbers that drive success. So let's dive in and make your business more profitable one episode at a time. Super excited today to talk to Chad Turpin out of Indiana. He has a great painting business out of Indiana. How's it going today, Chad?
SPEAKER_02:Good, man. Appreciate you having me on.
SPEAKER_01:Awesome. I'm super excited to jump into things. So if you could give the listeners kind of an idea of, you know, how did you get started in the painting industry? What's been your journey along the way, maybe with some major milestones?
SPEAKER_02:Got into the industry, joined a union company in my early 20s. Um, got out of the uh industry after about four or five years, um, just due to uh where the economy was, um, took some time, um, went back to school myself and was just needing people I found out were still needing painting. So um, I was going to school full-time, um, working full time, and uh really one of them was just gonna start to suffer. And we were doing pretty good with the painting. So talked to my counselor at school, walked away from uh school after his advice, and uh started a painting business 15 yeah years later. Here we are. So um yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So you've been in the game for a while.
SPEAKER_02:A little bit, a little bit now. So uh weren't too big when we first started, and I honestly wasn't even uh worried about growing at that point. I was focused on just kind of living my life and and kind of having the freedom that I own the business, um, you know, that you get with own the business. So um the first four or five years we were, you know, kind of me, myself, and I with a couple people, and then um some fortunate events with uh um hurting my back myself and doing too many things and um trying to want to scale and times to step out of that position and reach uh start step out and let other guys do the painting and things like that.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. So you actually started it was more out of necessity, really, to grow because you you were hurt. And then so you're like, I need to hire painters to actually do the work because right now I'm not able. Is that right?
SPEAKER_02:Right, yeah, yeah. It's a lot of it's happened organically. We've done a lot of things too. Um, obviously, you know, having the right uh practices, doing good jobs, um, you know, doing what, you know, fulfilling, you know, being ready when opportunities come and uh taking advantage of those really um when given opportunities. Um it's just really it helped us scale and and you know get to where we're at now. But yeah, I mean, obviously some marketing, some advertising, and knowing what you're doing, knowing your numbers, um, knowing all those things, I'm obviously helping what you're doing too as well.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. And and so after, you know, that the first five years uh um you were kind of just working on the job site with a small team, then you got hurt, you um got some painters to start working, you know, actually doing the jobs. Uh and so the last 10 years you've actually been grow kind of more deliberately growing. Is that fair to say?
SPEAKER_02:Oh, yeah, definitely. I mean, definitely. We've been trying, uh pushing more in the last five years, really, uh, with things I think that we've done better um as far as social media, marketing, and advertising. But um, I think it all goes hand in hand with your branding um and and just being ready when the time comes. Like I said, knowing your numbers, um, knowing your market, um, knowing your team, uh, all those things kind of factor in and have to really come together for you to to scale and reach that point.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. And just to so we have more context, how how large, how much revenue are you guys doing? Like how large your large is your team at this point?
SPEAKER_02:Right now we have 15 painters. Um, we're looking at doing about 2.5, 3 million this year. Last year we were looking, we finished about 1.5. Um the year before that, we were a little slower um growth. I think we were about uh one to one 1.2. Um but the numbers kind of jumped. When we first started, we were at, you know, I think my first year I did 60,000 by myself, then it jumped to 120, then it jumped to 240, you know, 350, 500, and so on. Um but I think a big part of it um is like I said, your branding, your marketing, and everything has to align. You got to have the people um in place to be able to do their jobs. We all want to jump really fast and have these big, huge jumps and these really big numbers. Um, but if you don't have the people in place uh to do that, you obviously could have some setbacks and running some problems that way.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So really incredible growth from last year to this year. So like you're 1.5 last year, this year you're on track to potentially double, like right around double. Yeah. Which is it's easier to do that when you're smaller, but when you you know 1.5 to 3 million, that's a big jump, really quite really quick.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_01:Um, what what do you think allowed you to do that big jump? What did you have in place uh to make that such a big jump so quickly?
SPEAKER_02:Um well, obviously we knew we needed more painters, um, but myself really just stepping back, um, and I knew I was gonna have to step away from doing estimates. I couldn't be estimator, project manager, um, and organizer, you know, what's going on at the shop and all these things. So once we hired an estimator, um he does all the everything that comes in, whether it's uh commercial or residential. Um, but I will help on some commercial ones still with um some existing contracts that we already have. So I do still help with some of those and do some of those for him. But um hiring him has been huge. So um we're even looking at hiring another one just after getting him going out the way this year's went. Um in the way we've kind of been able to kind of drive drive our our our time out that you know that people can get to us. We like to keep it about two or three months. Um, and we've kind of hit that wall where you know, three months, three, three and a half months is kind of as far as people like to wait. Um the first time we've really really ran into that problem where you know we've actually lost a couple of customers because they're just not willing to wait that amount of time. So yeah, um, at that point in time, we need painters, and you know, and I think that's another part that's that's been our problem of growing and getting even you know higher this year. I mean, I think if we could have, you know, got a little higher as far as the painters that we had and got you know some more guys in here, I think we could definitely turn a higher number. But I think that's the problem with most uh contractors across the nation, not even just in painting, but in in uh in general is finding the guys. And that's what we're trying to talk to now as younger generations and trades and trade schools and get them in the door and get them started.
SPEAKER_01:So yeah. Yeah, it's definitely a common theme over the last couple of years, folks. It sounds like the constraint of your business is actually having the team to produce the work because you your demand, uh, even now, you're it sounds like you're booked out several months, even though you doubled your revenue. Um your your your constraint isn't enough having enough work. It's really just having enough painters and of a team to produce the work. Is that fair to say?
SPEAKER_02:Definitely.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. That's that's that's well, it's a great problem to have. I mean, it's a definitely a problem, but it's you know, a lot of folks struggle with the getting the leads piece, but it sounds like you guys have that figured out. So, what what have you been doing from a marketing perspective, especially in the last year or two or three? Um, what have you figured out that's just been able to get as much work as you can handle?
SPEAKER_02:Um, well, I mean, it's it's been a combination. We've built relationships with other contractors and general contractors throughout the years, um, which, like I said, when you're ready and you're given a job, you're given an opportunity, and you take care of it and you know, and really grab a hold of it, and um, you know, they're gonna keep coming back to you. So organically um building these relationships, but also um with just our presence um across the board with social media, um just showing more before and afters, um not even just that, but just our content, um, having more content out there for people, easier to access for us, for ways for people to get to us, find us, um, and know what we do. Um, you know, I think we've we've done a lot um throughout the year to kind of build that brand and build that name, but at the same time, you know, it's it's making sure everything else aligns with it now that we've done that, put in that work um to make sure our social media and everything more matches what we're doing.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Cool. So uh just so um have some context on on the split, because I know you're doing residential and commercial. What percentage are you doing of of each as of overall revenue?
SPEAKER_02:Right now it's it's about 50-50. Um commercial projects are a bit bigger. Yeah. I've heard some people that say they don't like commercial. Um I've heard some people that say they don't like new homes either. So um, you know, I think you just as long as you have the team in place and you know you're prepared for whatever the task is, you know, and you estimate the job properly, you should be should be good on it. So there's pros and cons to all of it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And one of the big things that folks struggle with with commercial, especially, especially working under GCs, is the cash flow, because oftentimes, not all the time, but a lot of times the payment schedules aren't the best where you'll have to pay your team, pay for the materials, and then you get paid 30, 60, 90 days in some cases uh later. Um is that something that you've faced and and what have you done to address that?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, definitely. Um I think that should be definitely something you should address when you first start the project when working with the new general contractor, is is what you know, what's their pay scale or how often do they pay? Um, so you don't get yourself in a bind like that. But that's the reason we handle the our residential work as well, because your residentials are typically going to pay as soon as you're done with them. So if you're doing enough residentials, you can that can kind of carry the weight of the burden of waiting for those bigger projects or or checks when they come in. So that's kind of how we've, you know, the same thing with kind of doing the new homes. The new homes are great, it's consistent through the through the winter time, you know, when you may slow down a little bit. Uh, but at the same time, you know, they're longer projects, they draw out a little bit longer. Um, so it's it's really like I said, just understanding your numbers and not stretching yourself too thin. Yeah. Um, you know, you that's the main thing is any business gotta an owner has to know is is you know, everything top to bottom, you know, start to finish, time materials, you know, what you're paying out, um, versus what your you know your burn rate is for the one. That's your total everything that you're spending versus what's coming in. So if you all know those things, you know, and starting, you know, by myself and starting smaller, I've seen us go from one person to two people to 10 people to 15 people, so plus an estimator now, plus myself, plus an admin that works in the office. So, you know, you kind of know what you have to add along the way. You know, I knew what I was doing per month, you know, what I had to pay myself. So to do that, you're basically just doubling, tripling, quadrupling what you had to do by yourself, um, you know, to do, you know, to get to those bigger numbers.
SPEAKER_01:So it sounds like you for cur to to to understand, first you need to understand what you're getting into in terms of the payment schedules before you start working with a GC. And then it sounds like you're also balancing the positive cash flow that comes from residential. You're kind of using that cash sometimes to help with the lack of cash flow on the commercial side. So when you're doing 50-50 commercial residential, is that a deliberate strategy? Like you kind of want to keep it balanced because of that cash flow uh issues with commercial?
SPEAKER_02:Um, I wouldn't say so. I don't think you need to. I think if you're gonna switch over just to commercial, um, you know, I think the way you uh your project coordinators should, you know, know how fast you're turning those jobs versus paydays and when that when you're gonna get paid for the job once it's completed. I think you could go either route with it. Um because it's not a necessity. You don't have to have the residentials coming in if you're making money on your jobs as you should all of them. You don't have to. It's just a way that, you know, if you are waiting on some of those bigger projects, then I think you can. And I think we have in the past. So um it's not that we rely on it all the time, but it's definitely, you know, something that is definitely a necessity. If you're have a small crew and that's all they're working on is one big project, or you have two crews, you know, you gotta have your smaller or your other crew working on something where you're gonna, you know, be able to pay the bills.
SPEAKER_01:So yeah. Okay. Yeah, I know a lot of folks that do residential, commercial, both, and they're doing something similar where they're taking taking the deposit from residential and getting paid quickly at the end of the project. And that really helps with the cash flow and commercial side because you know sometimes it's not the best. You don't oftentimes get a deposit, and then you're having to wait to get paid for the larger project.
SPEAKER_02:So yeah, that's I think the biggest thing for that is just clarity from your GCs. Um, because we actually have some GCs we work for that are awesome. I mean, they pay like residential customers, and when you have GCs like that, I mean I think we all want to work for more people like that. So um, but as long as you know that and know your numbers, you should be fine. Cool.
SPEAKER_01:So you you talked about you know you've grown your revenues significantly in the last couple of years. You talked about maintaining those relationships with the GCs, building that trust and uh being available to take care of projects. So you're getting more projects, I'm assuming, from them. Um, and then you've talked about branding presence, providing proof and and content out there, I'm assuming more towards the residential side, attracting uh homeowners. Are you doing just organic social media or are you also doing paid ads on top of that?
SPEAKER_02:We don't run any paid, I guess they are paid ads for sponsored. Um, like I said, we let our marketing team handle that. You know, we pay them, you know, whatever their fee is monthly. Um, and they handle all of our all of our ads, um, all of our all of that stuff. So yeah, I would say they they're sponsored paid ads. Um but yeah, just more frequently, I think. Um, and just myself in general, just being out there, you know, utilizing you know the projects that we work on to get them out there, put them out there on social media myself. I continue to do what I do, but let them handle it from the professional side.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And I'm assuming you you probably have a pretty good client list of prior customers. So uh are you doing a lot of repeat referral type work?
SPEAKER_02:Because you We do a lot of repeat work and we also do door hangers and things like that. That's something we uh we just started um this year, like I said, when I hired the estimator. So um he stays pretty busy for the most part, but if he's just in a neighborhood and has a little bit of time between you know stops, and he'll he'll just door to door for a half hour, 45 minutes, drop some door hangers out, knock on some doors and see what he can do. Um we've actually got a lot of feedback from that. Um and like I said, little things. I think there's some other people out in the trades that have started to do that and have teams that are that are really out there, put a lot a lot of thought and logistics and and numbers into figuring that out. But um, I think um we always just try and do a little bit something extra in the trade from what our other people aren't doing. Um I think our our mission has always been to raise the standard of the painting trade, uh, whether it was one person or 15 people. So you always the mission stays the same. So it's communication, branding, marketing, um, customer service, whatever you're doing, the work, you know, it has to be a step above what you know we think the market is and better. So I think that's helped us with our branding, it's helped us with our growth and and so on.
SPEAKER_01:So what's the the number like since you've almost about to double this year, um, what's the biggest uh marketing push that's really paid off? Uh has it been the relationship with the GCs? Has it been the organic social media, or has it been like the canvassers you mentioned? That's that's a a new thing for this year. What's been the biggest thing?
SPEAKER_02:The biggest, um man, it's it's our it's our estimator as well, too, because he is really hands-on um and just out there in the community. Um, you know, obviously social media, um, obviously, um door to door, all those things have affected equally. I don't have an exact number on which one um has done has done better, but it's really just bringing in more people and the right person to, you know, believes in the trade and believes in what he's doing as much as I do. Um, and like I said, it's just that additional face, that additional person out there talking to people, um, discussing painting, everything that we do. And it's it's meetings that he goes to. It's uh we have our like chamber of commerce here in town, and he's you know, he's just out there at every one of them. But I would say um overall would be the the door-to-door, and social media has made the biggest influence. But like I said, having somebody that fits that role well and is good at talking to people, I don't think anybody could do it as well as he does it. So I feel like we hired one of the best in the biz to do it.
SPEAKER_01:So yeah, that's that's a good point because I mean, one key rock star, one key hire can uh dramatically change the business. And sounds like he might be that that uh key hire made a huge impact, um, which I think you know um is important also for kind of the constraint you have in your business right now, or the bottleneck is really finding more of those key people to to unlock even more growth because you're you're uh you're doubling this year, but you're you're not you're still not able to produce all the work that you're and you're having to turn some folks away. And so if you can you know get some more of those key people filled, I mean that's gonna blow you up even more. Um what sort of things have you done or are you planning to do to to find those key positions that are kind of that you need to to to meet the demand that you're facing?
SPEAKER_02:I mean, really, we want to find younger people. So we're reaching out to the the trades. We've done uh we went and talked to the kids at school. We're gonna be doing actually uh talking to another, I've been asked by another friend of mine to talk to some students. So just getting younger people in the trade sooner. Um we can find help. It's not always the help we want. And I've learned in the trades, once you, you know, you go down the road with somebody and it's not you know the route you want, we don't we don't offer them, you know, a position back, you know. Um, but I mean I would I think that would probably be the biggest struggle for us right now is just is knowing the right path to go as far as that. You know, we can we can reach out, we can put it out there on social media. Um we've got a few people coming the door, but we don't we don't put up with a lot. We had a guy who was supposed to start Monday and we had communication with his old job that he was gonna give him a week, and Monday he had um excuses or reasons why he wasn't gonna be here, and I told him to just stick with his other job if that's the way we were gonna start, um, because he was already trying to call in on the first day. So um it's just hit and miss. It's one of those things. Um, you know, we get really good people sometimes, and sometimes you don't. Um, but it's annoying not to really get overwhelmed by that. I mean, there's a time and a place for everything, you know, you're gonna get the right people at the right time and the right opportunities. Um, don't stress yourself out over that, you know. Um handle what you can on the day-to-day business. Um, and like I said, people will will fall into place just like when we found Sam and the other people. Um when the time is right and the person, you know, shows you your door, you'll should know you gotta know it and pick the person up. So um, but like I said, we just don't get in a hurry with the people we hire. We're very particular in our brand and what we're trying to put out there. Uh and you can't do that with just pulling anybody off the street. I know some people go the the sub you know route. Um, and that works for some people, more power to them. Um, but our brand and and the work we're putting out is in customer service, I feel like you kind of lose when you kind of go that route. Um so um, you know, we're you know, I don't have that, I don't have that answer. I wish I did, yeah, be honest, because I would probably be helping a few other painting contractors to be honest. And I wish I did. I guess I've been looking for that answer, and I don't have that answer. But we've done social media, um, you know, we put it out there myself, um, tried to offer, you know, different things for for people, but ultimately it's the people gotta want to work. And we're in a um generation of a bunch of people that I think ultimately are are looking for the the college route or the easy route or you know, a way to find a career without actually working and whether you own the business, you go to work for somebody, you're gonna have to work either way.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I know I like what you said with you, you have a high standard and you want to make sure when you're bringing on new folks that they meet that standard because to uphold the brand image that you have. I think that's super important that uh some people in your position, they won't, they'll be like, I just need more people to to produce this work, and then they their standards slip, and then they they don't have as quality work, and and then it's a negative feedback cycle, then they get less referrals, et cetera. Um, so I like how you're even though you you you are booked out for several months, you're hold holding that standard um and and and trying to find the right people to put in the organization. Um and uh a lot of the folks that I've worked with that have had this exact same problem, the ones that have unlocked this problem, like fixed this issue of not having enough of a team, is they started basically treating their hiring process like their sales process, where it's a very deliberate uh process where they have like an indeed job post job ad, really trying to attract folks. They'll also have like a referral bonus to their current team for like a pretty high referral bonus for folks. Uh if if if a current team member says, hey, I found somebody that can work, and and that person ends up working out over a 90-day period, they get a bonus. And not like a you know,$100 bonus,$200 bonus, I'm talking about thousands of dollars bonus. Because there's a formula that I learned that's I think helps open up some of the uh, you know, because I think I feel like a lot of folks don't know how much to spend to get a new hire. Now, right now you're at um coming up on three million, and if you can but you're still super booked out, if you can add another million of revenue at a 50% gross profit, let's say that's uh$500,000. If you just had, you know, uh three additional painters, let's say. Three or four additional painters. So how much are you willing to spend to get$500,000 in additional gross profit, let's say? Um yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So that's a good idea. I actually like that referral program. Um it's funny because most people don't don't want to refer people, um, unfortunately, because they don't want the the kickback if something doesn't work out. Um but that you know if they have an incentive, um you know, I I would definitely be willing to pay a thousand, two thousand dollars um for a good employee. So um I think we all know, you know, everybody knows the value of what an employee could bring or for your business. So um version versus your market. So I'd definitely definitely be open to spending a few thousand dollars.
SPEAKER_01:So plus uh it it gives buy-in because if you if someone refers somebody and they get, let's say, three thousand dollars at at the end of 90 or uh whatever, however many days, um then they're bought into that person's success. So they have to make sure that they're gonna try to do what they can to make sure that they're successful so that they can get that$3,000 bonus or whatever. Um, so it's all one, it gets you more candidates that come in, and then two, it makes their likelihood for success higher because your current team members are or at least one of them is bought into making sure they stick around for at least a few months. Um but uh yeah, so that's a really good uh thing that I've seen work uh to get more candidates coming in. But just just knowing like if you can get an additional painter that gives you an additional$100,000 in gross profit and increases the amount of money that you might be willing to spend, um, because I would say 5%. So if you if you're gonna get a one additional painter brings in an extra$100,000 in gross profit over the lifetime of that employee, say on average your painters stick around for two years and they're gonna bring in$100,000, probably should be willing to spend like$5,000 or so on that person. Um, and so that gives you more permission to spend more money to acquire those. Because it makes sense, because if you can, like we said, like if you can grow another million in revenue because you have an additional crew or two, um, that could that could you know really solve your problem.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. I'm definitely definitely looking at that. That's a good idea. Because that's yeah, I think that's uh I think that's the most problem that all of us are dealing with right now is is you know just finding the help and getting people in here. But like I said, I've I think that's always why, you know, I think I said we always like to show that we've grown and do so much so fast. But um I think that's why we've kind of grown naturally and organically. Um a lot of it is like I said, it's part of really building your brand and being you know, meticulous in who you hire, uh, because that'll solve a lot of those problems for you. Once you have good processes, good people, you know, there's days I don't even have to come into the office. I can work from my home, work from home, um, take care of my son or do whatever I have to do because we do have enough processes in place. So um it's just uh and then like you said, we've heard we've heard the downside of other local companies that you know they're too big for the bridges or you want to heard that. And and they we were hearing it from you know, customers that they weren't happy with the people they were sending out. Um basically the ultimately the the final goal, the service, uh, the experience they just weren't happy with. So, you know, that's you know, one thing we've you know, I know you can you can combine yourself that way too, growing too fast. So, you know, obviously we would we would love to, but you know, we'll have to definitely get in those markets and try and find some people or get a position.
SPEAKER_01:Awesome job. Awesome, Chad. Well, I think you're doing awesome things over there in Indiana. I really appreciate you being super generous with your time today. Um, do you have any last thoughts for maybe PN business owner that's you know struggling to grow their business? Maybe they're you know stagnant, maybe they're suffering from uh trying to figure out what to do to grow their business. Do you have any thoughts on on what they should focus on to get them to the next level?
SPEAKER_02:Um just stick to your mission, stick to where your goal is, why do you got into the trade? Um obviously I think if you got into it, you know, you were there was a need for something, whether it's customer service or paying, whatever it is. So um just focus on you know the positives and what you can control daily. Um don't get you know, it's a roller coaster owning business. So, you know, just don't let don't get too high, don't get too low. Um and just stay persistent, consistent with what you're doing, stay positive. Mindset is a lot of a lot of this stuff. So uh if you just come in with an eager, positive attitude every day, you know, like I said, give give a lot to the world, give more to the world than you take, I think you'll be just fine. So you give your employees the best effort, your customers the best effort, um, and everything you can do, and I think you'll it'll work itself out. But stay positive and uh like I said, just don't get too high or too low, just ride that wave and you know, enjoy it.
SPEAKER_01:Wise words. I appreciate it, Chad. And for all our listeners, with that, we will see you next week.
SPEAKER_02:I appreciate it, Daniel. Appreciate you having me, buddy.
