An Introduction to the Enneagrams

Most personality tests tell you who you are. The Enneagram shows you why you are the way you are and what to do about it.

In this episode of At the Table by Innate Women, we introduce the Enneagram as a powerful framework for personal growth, leadership, and relationships. This isn’t about putting yourself in a box. It’s about understanding your core fears, desires, and patterns so you can grow beyond them.

We break down why the Enneagram stands apart from other personality systems and how it becomes a tool for real change, not just awareness. If you’ve ever felt stuck in your habits, struggled in relationships, or wondered why success doesn’t feel the way you thought it would, this is where the work begins.

This episode also sets the foundation for a deeper series where we will walk through each Enneagram type, the triads, and how to apply this knowledge to your life, business, leadership, and relationships.

If you are a woman who wants more clarity, more self-awareness, and a deeper understanding of yourself and others, you are in the right place.

Subscribe and follow along as we build this series together.

Welcome to the table

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

I'm really excited for this series because I feel like we'll be able to dive in to everything more deeply and intentionally, and it'll be really cool and fun.

SPEAKER_00 0:10

I am actually very excited because this is a topic I wouldn't have talked about for a while.

SPEAKER_01 0:14

It's one of your favorites.

SPEAKER_00 0:16

This is my favorite topics, and welcome to At the Table. Today you are joining us for our Inneagram series, of which there's a lot of misconceptions. A lot of people use Innegrams. I think they're getting out there, so people have at least heard of it, but they don't really understand why it's so significant or how to use it properly. And I feel like there's people going around and just like telling people random stuff. I'm like, that's just not how it is. I was first introduced to Innegrams at in my 20s, as were you. And then I think I learned about this and I was like, well, I want to know more. And so I feel like I've really studied this and taken the time to be like, let me understand it, and then how do we apply it? And now both of us apply this to our lives pretty regularly.

SPEAKER_01 0:59

I think with you, like I feel like you've studied it, like you studied it.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

I feel like it's been so helpful in life.

SPEAKER_01 1:07

Right. And I also was very much, once I learned about it, gravitated towards it. But I feel like the issue people have with it is one, they're not being taught it correctly, and two, they're only interested in learning about their type, but just like the fun, like like personality things to a deeper level where it'll actually help you in times of stress to identify when you're having a hard time or your not so healthy parts and how to move you towards a healthier version of yourself.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

So let's dive into what exactly is the anagram and why it's so useful, how we use in our lives is one personal growth. So this is how we were introduced to it. Both of us at separate times went to what's called the cabin, and so this is a personal growth retreat. I took this test, and you have to look like the top three, but I took this test, and then the person came up to me is like, no, this is what you are, and I was like, Okay, because you can test wrong. You have to look at your top three. I look at the top three, and I do test really close together in my top three, and then once I read them out, and it's like you look at the good, and then you look at the bad, and there's different stages, and so you start applying that to your life, and then after I started understanding myself, I started applying it to relationships, so it's used in my marriage, but it's also used in the workplace and how we communicate because as a leader, you understand this. Once you get into leadership, you can't just like treat everybody the same. You want to say that ideologically is like I have to be fair to everybody. Fairness is actually understanding each of the personality types and how they want to be communicated to and what they value and what their best version is and helping them get there, and then using it just in communication and then even helping you mature has been a big part of the Enneagrams.

SPEAKER_01 2:58

Yeah, I actually think that this has been more helpful in relationships for me than it has been on just learning about myself. I mean, it's fun to be like, oh yeah, that's totally me. Yeah, um, but so much more helpful to be like, okay, well, how will my husband hear this best or like my coworker? How are we gonna work best in this scenario together?

SPEAKER_00 3:21

Yeah, and a lot of with the Enneagrams, what makes it unique is that it is focused on what your intentions are behind it. So what I've noticed, and how it's used wrong, but for a big picture and where we're going with this, is a lot of people take the enagram and they'll be like, here's a number, and like one's a perfectionist, I'm a perfectionist, I must be a one. And so where that mistake comes in is we're not really looking about do you have these traits? Now, traits can come out of these different people personalities, but it's not always presented the same. And what we're really looking for is the motivation behind someone. So you could have, for example, multiple different Enneagram numbers who were really interested in success outwardly, but why they want their success is what defines their number. It's not that they want success. And so when you're really looking, like we dive deep into what is the motivation of a person, and that helps get that understanding of what your number is. So it's your intentions behind your actions that are defining your Ennegram. And so an example would be: do you want freedom? Do you want security? Do you want peace, success, connection, control, some meaning in life? You're gonna be a piece of all of these, but what is your biggest thing that you're seeking through your actions? And that's when we start to define who you are, and then you can use that number for other people in that personal growth.

SPEAKER_01 4:45

So, yeah, it is a personality typing, but not really.

SPEAKER_00 4:49

Yeah, let's dive deeper into this. Let's go into more, you know, looking at the motivation behind the actions and where the enneagram came from.

SPEAKER_01 5:01

I actually think this is fascinating because it is ancient. When we were reading about the history, they're like, oh yeah, it's been around for like thousands of years. Like ancient Greek philosophers have like ties to this, but it's also mysterious because they can't really link like an exact person or place where it originated from. It seems that it has like co-concurring origins, but really I feel like the Enneagram we know today didn't really get fully developed and like streamlined until I would say like 50s, 60s, and then 70s, it got really popular and kind of blew up everywhere. But if you're just listening to this, Google Enneagram diagram or sign or whatever, and that specific, like nine-pointed circular, like I don't even know what to call it, symbol, that has been around for like a long, long, long time.

SPEAKER_00 5:57

Seems some, I think it's very popular, like a Christian, different Christian groups. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:02

Some ties to that. It has religious ties.

SPEAKER_00 6:04

It does, but I don't think I think it can be used no matter what your release are, and it's not like inherently like when you just discuss it or read about it, it's not inherently a religious thing. It just seems to be a tool that's used.

SPEAKER_01 6:17

The diagram is like a tool to help better understand the Enneagram. It's not like the Enneagram is this diagram, but it's a circle with nine points on it, and so it's obviously one through nine, and then you'll see a bunch of lines, and the lines have arrows going, there'll be two arrows from each number, and that'll show you your core, which is your you have a core number, which will never change, and then the arrow one will go to you as your healthiest self, that's what the traits you'll gravitate towards, and then you as your unhealthy self, that's the traits you'll you'll gravitate towards those other numbers. So in this circle, we all have parts, we all have parts of the nine different types because a whole person would encompass all of the good that is in each type, but we have a core that is more defined of who we are from our upbringing childhood, like nature versus nurture, like combination kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

So there's nine numbers, and you are gonna be your core. So some of the misconceptions are people think my number changes, your number is your number, but different aspects, different times of life, and different stressors that come in can impact how your personality is portrayed in the world. So each personality has like within those nine levels, well, within each of those nine numbers, nine levels of health, they call it, that you can be at. So you can be at your absolute worst, which we never want to be at, an average, which is probably where most people will fall. And then if you're doing that personal growth, you can then go into your higher, your highest level self, which is why you use the Enneagram to move into that. And what they discuss in each of these is what is the motivation behind your actions in life? So you're really not just looking at like, do I have these personality traits, but what is motivating me towards these actions I'm taking and or other people in my life are taking? And then in addition to those nine numbers, you have wings. So this is where it can get really interesting and start defining and why people can be the same number but start to look different. So your wings can only be one of the numbers that sit on either side of you. So, for example, if you are a one in this circle, your wing could either be a nine or a two. And so each of those numbers, like you're gonna gravitate towards one side or the other, and that wing can influence your personality too. So, to go over what each of them are, we have one, which is a they call it the perfectionist, and this is the most simplified view of it, of course. As we go deeper in this series, we are gonna get very into all the nuances. You have your two, which they are the people seeking out like love. Women a lot of women fall into this because it's what a traditional woman is like told that they should be. We have three, the achiever, four, which is more the number based on uniqueness, five, which is more of an analyzer of this world, six, which is they call the loyalist, but this person really loves security. You have the seven, which is the adventurer, you have eight, which is more like the CEO type, and then you have nine, which is the peacekeeper. And each of these people have a very specific motivation, and then they have their wings, and then as we go deeper, we'll look at different variants within each number.

SPEAKER_01 9:38

Yeah, I would say if you're at all interested in the Enneagram, go and take the test. We have one on our website at innatewomen.com, and that'll give you a good jumping off point because I think if you just listen to it, yeah, it'd be great information, but it'll be helpful for you to know kind of where you're falling so that you can apply the information for yourself.

SPEAKER_00 10:00

Something I found people like it's hyped. Oftentimes people take the test for what they wish they were. That's why we look at our top three results, conversations with us. And what I find is when we're talking to different people, because I've had I've had over 50 people take the Instagram test for me and like analyze all the results, and we have these conversations. So when we look at these, your top three, when I start reading the stuff that is like the part where you go to when you're more stressed, maybe not your most best version of you. People hate that version of themselves, and that's how we know who you are oftentimes, is when we're discussing it. Like in my mom, for example, she's a nine, a peacekeeper, but one of the things that they have is like an underlying anger, and they can be really stubborn, and oftentimes they do that because they don't feel like they're really like heard, so it's their way of like taking control of the situation, and she hates that. She hates when I read about the worst sides of a nine, and it's really clearly how she's like, Oh, yeah, I probably am this because we have these more bigger emotions invoked with what we really are, and then of course, certain ones are more likely to get mistyped than others. But one of the reasons it's associated with jumping over to the religion side is because it's also connected to the different deadly sins.

SPEAKER_01 11:13

Yeah, I love that. So there's seven deadly sins, but they call it also the passions, right? The nine different passions. So each type will have like a correlating like shadow side or like your worst, like what is like the yucky that comes out of you. And I agree with Megan, like you have to look at the like not pretty part because that's how like I was mistyped because, like you said, it's very common for women to be typed as a two because of societal norms. So we take on those personality traits of a two, even though it might not be our core. And that happened to me until you were like, Oh, what about like this, this, and this? And I was like, Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:53

Yeah, but like, like I said, I test I actually test as a one because I have a really strong moral compass, so I'm very much like this is what's right in this world, and this is what's wrong, and I lack a little bit of gray area when it comes to ethics, and so I test high as a one, but when you look at all the other stuff, like I just don't fit it, but that's why you have to look at all of it, and sometimes having someone else come in is really helpful. But when I read out recently, we revisited this with my husband and I was reading my Enneagram, which is an eight, and my husband's like, Yeah, that's you, that's what it's like. You really do when you go deep, you really do fit yours pretty well. But do you want to go over what the nine different ones are associated with it?

SPEAKER_01 12:34

Okay, so the nine passions are the deadly sins. So, number one, theirs would be anger, two is pride, three is deceit, four, envy, five, they typed it as av avarice, but I would say greed. It's greed.

SPEAKER_02 12:52

Six fear for it.

SPEAKER_01 12:54

I don't know why they use that word. Seven, gluttony, eight, lust, and nine, sloth. So I just I think that's it's so fascinating because like there'll be different like core messages, like things that you lost during your childhood, or like that your hashes, and like I feel like these like so hit to the like cut to the quick for like right to the soul. I think people have a hard time doing this type of work because you have to dive into maybe not the prettiest part of yourself to learn more to level up. Like, who wants to talk about their worst qualities?

SPEAKER_00 13:33

When you face that, always goes back to the hard conversations, the hard times. Personal growth happens during challenges, it does not happen during the really fun stuff. So, look, the interviews are super fun, and I think it's really fun to do it as a group and when you're working with people, but the magic happens when you dive deeper. I don't even know if it's like a some of its awareness because sometimes we don't even realize these signs about us. So, for some of us, especially someone like a nine and a one who might ignore some harder stuff, you're going to want to dive deeper and really be like in touch with yourself with it and have these breakthroughs. Because one of the biggest things with the Innegram is it's going deeper into the traits of who you are and looking at your strengths, but also like why are you doing what you do? And we all have patterns in our life. So if we look at these patterns, and you can take, for example, if you look at how you argue, each of us have a pattern in how we argue and how we respond to hard things happening to us. And if you start to do self-observation, which we've talked about before, and you go, okay, how am I reacting to this? What's my pattern? You're gonna start to see something emerge when you're being honest with yourself. And that's the hard part, is like it doesn't feel good to say, oh, I avoid situations when things are hard, or I'm actually a really angry person that yells at people, that's my pattern, or you know, I cut people off. I manipulate people. I manipulate people, that feels horrible to say. So we as human beings tend to avoid that, and as a result, we stay really stagnant and average. But when you start looking at these and looking at what do you fear the most? And you look at it through a lens that I feel like is sort of like helping guide you through it with the ennegrams. What do you fear? And you become really self-aware of what your patterns look like by reading and learning more about the enneagram. So you might read about like your number that you test as, and you can be like, oh, I can see myself in that, and it can be a more comfortable way of looking at yourself instead of just being like, Am I a bad person? It's more like, okay, I might be at a lower level. And then it gives you the tools to start self-developing and self-understanding, okay, I'm reacting to stress, I'm reacting to fear, but I also have an opportunity to react to really positive times and move into these other more positive traits. And that's where the magic happens, is when you start to realize, like what I'm driven by, or even someone in your life that you've had a difficult time with or a relationship you want better, why are they acting the way they're acting? Why are they driven? And really understanding why they're handling a hard situation how they are, instead of just saying, Oh, they're just not doing it well, or you're assuming someone's being a certain way. But really, it all comes back down to the motivation, the fear, and the response to stress.

SPEAKER_01 16:19

Yeah, and I think that's a really good explanation of why we like this system most out of the other personality tests that are out there, because it does give you a really good blueprint to improve yourself versus just like, oh yeah, here's these fun facts about your personality.

SPEAKER_00 16:38

I don't think any of them give you the same blueprint for how you can actually do self-improvement and change your life. So this becomes like really beneficial to look at your actual behavior, the meaning behind that behavior, and how that can move you into a state of health and really honestly improve every aspect of all of your relationships, starting with the relationship you have with yourself.

SPEAKER_01 17:02

The main book that we're using to like go over all this stuff, the wisdom of the Enneagram in it, the guy. Well, there's two authors, but they were like essentially everyone's sleeping through life, like you're just walking around like asleep to yourself, asleep to others. And I feel like I thought that was like the saddest thing in the world because we're really just like robots on a conveyor belt.

SPEAKER_00 17:25

It goes back to the mother, father, preacher, teacher, we're conditioned, right, to be like this is how the world is, it's what and the world's not the same for them. And why is that? It's this conditioning of this is what's real in life, and we create our own reality, and so you know, when you're going through and you're like, of course I'm not gonna challenge this because this is just how we all I've always yelled at people, so of course that's always been fine, and then you start to be like, Well, maybe I don't want to do that anymore. Maybe I don't want to like be manipulative when I'm having a disagreement with someone, maybe I don't want to withdraw and I want to have the harder conversations, and so you know, when you start doing the integram work, there is this wake up that happens because you also have to become accountable for your actions once you know about them.

SPEAKER_01 18:09

Yeah, which is cool, and I feel like you get to a point where you like you know the ugly of your side, but you accept it, and I think that's a big step in self-development as well.

SPEAKER_00 18:20

Well, let's get back to it. Let's say someone goes to our website, they take the test, we can have a meetup with us to help determine what you are, and we also have a longer test. We have like a quick test on the website, but we also have the actual in-depth test that we use within ourselves and for the other people that work with us. But let's talk about how we actually use the Inagram. So you know your number now, you've been assigned your number. How do we start to use it? Starting with behavior and motivation, and how do we apply this to our lives? And you are a three with a two-wing, and I am an eight with a seven-wing. And so now that we know this, how would we start to use this?

SPEAKER_01 18:57

So, what it will do is it'll tell us all about the motivation behind our actions. Actually, we're a good example because our actions can look very similar as an eight and a three. This is a very common one to go. I've had people ask me if I'm an eight, and once you get to know the different personality types, I was just like, what? No. I would think that. But for example, Megan and I obviously we're chiropractors, we run our own businesses, but the motivation that you have to drive your business forward is nothing like what mine is to drive mine forward. Like, yes, we share core values of wanting to help people get healthier, natural health, all that jazz. But when it comes to the business side of like me wanting to grow my practice or you wanting to grow your practice, the motivations could not be any different. So for me, I I and it doesn't sound good, but I'm looking for the achievement. I want it to look like, you know, I got this nice, successful business, things are going well, people come to me, I'm an expert. But at the end of the day, like I'm really looking for like the not like, yes, I want to be successful, but it's more like the appearance of success. Do I look successful from the outside in? Am I giving off the right impression?

SPEAKER_00 20:15

We actually had this long conversation with us once where you want people to perceive you as successful, where I don't really care if you perceive me as successful. I want to be successful so I have more control over my environment. And so, but from the outside, I kind of tell you if I go to seminars and stuff, people are like, you must be a three, and I'm like, I am not. But because it goes back to the simplification, people go, if you like achieving, achievers are threes. But in our in every field, you are gonna find wildly successful people of all Enneagram types, so every single type can be very successful, yeah. So when you look at the sex success, it's gonna be looking at the motivation behind it. So under this is part of my understanding yourself. So when I like I have quite a drive, but my drive really comes from as an eight, what my core desire is is controlling my environment. Because when I have control over my environment, then my life is more peaceful. And so historically speaking, if other people have too much of a say, I have found too much chaos. And it's a way of like self-preservation. So if I go out as an eight, I think they get a lot of misunderstanding with them as these like mean, tough people. But I actually think like if you're in an eight's inner circle, you've never probably felt more secure in your life when they love you. If you're like, okay, I'm gonna be taken care of because that person is gonna do that, but they do it because it helps them control their environment. And you can also take someone who's like a one, they're a perfectionist, so they'll probably have high achieving, like in business as well, but they're gonna be motivated to do it because of more this need to have things a really specific way, like this is how it is to be successful. They follow this blueprint and they get there. And then you might have a four, might be more abstract in it, but that's because they want to feel all the feelings, and that includes this feeling of success and like what that feels like.

SPEAKER_01 21:55

Fives are really analytical, they want to be like specifically. Like my okay, so my husband's a five. They want like all the knowledge, like, and something that they can like dive into that can be potentially problematic is like very highly trained in something that's like the most random.

SPEAKER_00 22:13

So you might look at a six as it for security and loyalty that comes with it. So each person can be really successful, but it's going to be that reason for why. And then one of the missed things is people will be like, oh, you know, that's just how it is because I'm an eight. We will never use our Instagram as an excuse for bad behavior. I just have to put that out there because I've seen this so many times. Well, people be like, Well, I'm an angry eight, so that's why I just am like this way. And it's like, well, if you're aware of it, we do better. Once you know to do better, we will do better. That is our expectation in this world in the Integram work. It is not about you being like, Well, I'm this, so therefore. That is not how it is. You use that information to become the best version of you. We never use it as an excuse to stay less than.

SPEAKER_01 23:02

Yeah, listen to Megan. I feel like I've totally been guilty of being like, oh, she's such a sevent.

SPEAKER_00 23:09

It's so easy to do that. It's so easy to do that. Because also, like Frank and I, my husband's a two, I'm an eight, and we'll do that. He'll be like, Well, I just do this because I'm a two, like I'm loving, and so also two's their unhealthy side becomes like a martyr, and like it'll be like, Well, I'm a two. And you're like, Okay, but like that, then you know better. Then you can use this integram to be better. So we do have these things. This is human nature to fall into this, to be like, this is who I am, so therefore, the integram is all about becoming your best version of you, and so therefore, we must apply it that way. The next thing is looking at though is your wing, and your wings can have different levels of strength within your personality. So, as an eight, I could have a seven-wing or a nine-wing. Nines are a little calmer eights, and then sevens are more adventurous eights. I have a very strong seven. My mom actually is often like, Are you a seven? and I'm like, it can look like that from the outside for sure, because I have this need to constantly be like on the go and seeing the world and new novel ideas, but that's just a strong wing that can influence you. So, depending on how strong your wing is, can influence different traits of your personality.

SPEAKER_01 24:21

Yeah, and I think it's good to note so your core number will never change, but your wings, you can oscillate between your wings. Like, there might be times of your life where, like, for me, I'm three with a dominant two-wing, but like in childhood, like I was a very, very creative child, so I had a stronger four-wing, which is more like the artist type. So, there could be different points of your life where like one wing serves you better, and you might pull into that wing, but your wings will only ever be the direct numbers right next to your core number. It's not like I could be a three with a wing seven, like it's just never gonna happen.

SPEAKER_00 24:55

No, and I I've heard this happen, somebody's teaching this wrong somewhere because I've heard people say to me so many people are teaching it wrong, I think. Yeah, they'll be like, I'm a nine with a five wing, and I'm like, that does not exist, like that's not a thing, you are not that, and it goes back to we all can you are going to see yourself when you read all the integrands, you will see a part of yourself in each one, and that's normal, but your wings are your wings, and your numbers your number, and that's what you're gonna be diving deeper into understanding yourself and how you're motivated, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:26

And I think don't let it be overwhelming to a point where you're like, I can't even with this, because there are a lot of moving parts, like you have your core, your wings, and then your integration and your disintegration. So there's a lot of movement in this symbol of where your personality goes. But I promise, like, once you get a hold of it, at least for your core number, like I still need to refer to the chart for like integrations and disintegrations, yeah. Um, it'll make much more sense to you.

SPEAKER_00 25:55

And then there's also some other things people do, is like depending on the field you're in or how you're using it, people will put like they'll idolize certain ones. Like, we were in a group that idolized A's for a while and also like seem to hate nines, and I wrote the like the nines are the nicest people. It was so crazy, and it's like there is no number that is better than the other. Each number has its strengths, and each number has its weaknesses, but no number is better than another one. There's certain situations that certain ones might excel at, but as far as like this whole movement I've seen where people are like, this is the best one. There is no best one that does not exist.

SPEAKER_01 26:32

Now, I would say culturally, I do think there's some personality types that are more favored. Like, I think in America, threes are probably there. I think we probably have a skewed number of threes because that is like a valued thing.

SPEAKER_00 26:47

Culturally, I think America's at the three integral, yeah. What do you you can see that like culturally speaking, how that can influence things? And it goes back to also gender roles, right? So they're your gender role, that's why it's really important to look at your top three test results or even talk to someone about it to dig deeper. Because the number of women who test as a two is not the actual number of twos in the world. It's because we're taught the twos' traits are to be the helper. And this is what women, even though we're living in a whole different age now, and women have more rights than ever, we still have this being taught to children at a young age where a woman is to be a helper, they're supposed to be the person who shows up and does the unpaid work, they're take care of people, and they sacrifice their own self for others' well-being. This is what women are taught to do from a young age. And these are the traits that we value in women. If you have these traits of a two in a traditional gender roles, people are like, a woman is a two in every aspect. But the thing is, because we take on these gender roles and we're taught this, we'll sometimes be like, oh, I'm a two. And women test extremely high. Everybody tests as a two, or at least in the top three. So when it comes to women, if your number one is a two, I actually think you might be, but I think you need to dig really deep and see if that actually is what you are, and even talk to someone about it because it's just we're conditioned to be that. So we have to sort of separate our conditioning versus who we really are. And it's the same with men. Men are conditioned to be an eight.

SPEAKER_01 28:15

Yeah, they test high as that. They always and all men my husband tested high as an eight, and we're all like, no. No.

SPEAKER_00 28:23

And eights, the thing is they're more driven, they tend to have more control of situations, they just tend to have more masculine traits. And that's not that's like all true. Like, it's masculine based on what we're conditioned to think of masculinity as, but you can be a woman, a female eight, and be very feminine. You do not have to be like a female eight and look like a man, so yeah, um, you know, that's very much valued. The traits of an eight is valued within the masculine world, and so a lot of men will test as it or really want to be that, and it's like we have to dive deeper if you test really high as an eight because there's not gonna be as many as you think that are actual true eights.

SPEAKER_01 28:58

I also, this is a personal opinion and observation. I do think that each type looks differently like encompassed in a male and a female. Yeah, like obviously there's similarities, but I think like a male eight is going to look very different than like a female eight.

SPEAKER_00 29:15

Yeah, and I go I think that goes back to societal, looking at the society you live in, like my traits of being like very opinionated, very voisterous, direct communication, being able to be in a leadership position very naturally, and being like, I could take charge of this and make sure we get to where we need to go. You know, I could steer the ship and I'm very naturally good at it. That is not a trait that is naturally desired in women. In fact, like most of my life, I just think they remember being told, like, be quiet, you're too loud, you're too this, you're too that. And ultimately, AIDS can be very magnanimous. And my whole life's been you should be smaller, right? Like, that's just that you're you're not, you know, well, even in sports, I had a coach be like, you need to be more elegant. And I'm just like, I'm not, I'm just not an elegant person. Like, that is not one of my traits.

SPEAKER_01 30:02

But like sport, why does it matter?

SPEAKER_00 30:05

Because I'm a female, and these are the social norms, and so like as a man, I always say this if uh the male version of me would be elevated and put on a pedestal, but because I don't fit those traits, it's much more, I think there's a higher level of criticism, depending on the world you're living in. I would agree with that, and if you are a female too, sometimes you might think, well, I find these gender roles are really easy, but in a way, there's also this level of need to break out of that and recognize like your job, like you do not have to be of service to others to get love. You know, as a female too, it's I feel like you can go even deeper into that sense of being like a martyr and and in this state of servitude that you abandon yourself. And so for female twos, I think they have to really focus. Male twos too, but it's they just gonna be higher with females. It's like you have to reconnect with yourself in like an embodied sense.

SPEAKER_01 31:00

Yeah, yeah. It's a lot, it's gonna you're it's really helps to open your eyes on just like how did I get this way? And like when it we'll go into this more, but like the childhood messages and like how you were raised in your environment, how it shapes ultimately who you become, it can be painful to look at that stuff and be like, oh no.

SPEAKER_00 31:22

I think that's been the most emotional part for you is looking at the childhood.

SPEAKER_01 31:26

Oh my gosh, yeah. I think honestly, before I became a mom, I don't think it would have bothered me as much. But to know that like there is going to be a message here that my kid is not going to get and he's gonna develop his personality type based off of it. And it doesn't have to do with like your parents were good parents, it's just like their capacity of what they could bring you when you are growing up.

SPEAKER_00 31:49

Well, let's go through like some of the stuff that you like with the child, each one has a feeling and then like a counterpart of it of like how you start to heal your inner child. So, like I said, like unconscious messages, no one's like telling someone.

SPEAKER_01 32:06

Saying this to you, so an unconscious childhood message for each type. For number one, so like the perfectionist, it would be it's not okay to make mistakes, and the message that they uh needed to get is you are good. For number two, it's it's not okay to have your own needs, and the message they needed is you are wanted. See, I think these are like so terribly sad, it really upsets me.

SPEAKER_00 32:32

It's fair. I think if you're one of these, like whichever one you are, and you hear this, you're gonna be like, it's okay to give a little extra love to your inner child, and I think this is part of the healing process, like how integrams are what makes them so special, is like they can be healed, you know. I'm starting to address you know for you, you're three, and it's you're not okay to have your own feelings, and you know, your message is you are love for your who you are.

SPEAKER_01 33:00

Yeah, yeah. The saddest, it's so sad, all these. Yeah. Number four, if you're not watching a video, I'm like tearing up here. Number four is it's not okay to be too functional or too happy. And the message you need is you are seen for who you are. Fives, it's not okay to be comfortable in this world. The message you need is your needs are not a problem. Sixes, it's not okay to trust myself. You need to know you are safe. Sevens, it's not okay to depend on anyone else for anything. That one also made me really sad. And the message you need is you will be taken care of. Yours, Megan, too, made me really sad. It's not okay to be vulnerable or trust anyone, and you will not be betrayed, is the message you needed. And the last one for number nines, it's okay, or it's not okay to assert yourself, and the message you need is your presence matters. So, yeah, so these are really they're like pretty heavy, heavy messages. And to think like, because people start to what would you say, like age three, four is really when like the personalities are starting to express themselves, and they say by the time you're like 20, yeah, you're personally like that.

SPEAKER_00 34:15

Yeah, it's I don't really know the exact timeline on it, but you know, you hear you talk to parents, they're like, Yeah, see my child's personality and start to identify what your child is. Characteristics, yeah, yeah, that they might fit as they grow and develop. But I think also when you look at this, like when you're working with other people in a leadership position, or even if you're using this in your own family, like if you look at your partner and you look at this, like I think this part that Instagram is really special to use because if you look at it, like for example, my husband's a two, and it's like it's okay to have your own needs and to feel wanted, like you are really valuable. And like we dove deeper into this one night, and even that connection, the deeper connection of hearing him tell his stories from his childhood, and the realization of like, even how does this show up now? Like, we have a really healthy relationship. I would say I wish anyone my marriage, but it's you can still see it show up, and like as a partner, I can use this to be like, hey, are you doing this because you want to do it, or are you doing this because like you think it's what I want you to do? And those conversations just open a whole different level of dialogue within your relationship and an understanding of where like you can say, Okay, I can see this person's like wounds and how they need to grow, and maybe like things that have happened to them, and you get to be a part of their healing too. And the same for me, I always say he makes me a much better person because he creates such a safe spot for me to be vulnerable, right? So, like now we have like I'm more comfortable crying and being open with emotions, for eights tend to have a wallop and be a little more closed off, and you know, this can be applied to almost any relationship, even in the workspace. Like, if you're really frustrated with someone and you go, okay, maybe these actions are because they don't feel like their presence matters. That's a very different approach to leadership than if you're just like, I need them to do this and they're not doing it.

SPEAKER_01 36:05

Yeah, actually, I think what you said, it's that's great. Like, the perfect place to start implementing the stuff you learn from the Enneagram is in your home, and then it'll overflow into the workplace. And I've totally had coworkers that have become like they were on an unhealthy too, manipulative, and like they were like, I put so much time in here, and the boss never shows up. And I was like, Wow, you're really, you're really not living in your higher self here, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:36

But I could recognize that I think the relationship, I mean, every relationship can be transformed by using this on different levels, of course, appropriately. And then if we go into these integrands, like the other thing to look at is what's the fear that's motivating a lot of this? So everyone has a little bit of these fears.

SPEAKER_01 36:52

Um, but if we would you say that the fear is more of the motivation behind actions than really the desires, people are different.

SPEAKER_00 37:02

That's more of a nuanced thing because if we are looking even just outside the integram, in terms of like how people are motivated and internally, you have people who move away from pain or towards pleasure, and it might look the same from the outside, but inside, like this is a self-honesty. Like, like I don't always move away from pain, like I will sit with it more, but like if I'm like, oh, that's really like enjoyable, I might be more likely to move towards that. Um, so pain points can be very motivating, which would be fear, but desires can be really motivating for other people, which is wanting to achieve certain things. It could be environmentally not necessarily monetary, but they might want something in their life and they'll be more open to move towards it. And so you have to understand which kind of motivator you are and or what motivates you, but I think it depends on the person on which is stronger. Many people, fear can be very strong, but desire can be equally as strong. They're you know they're counterpoints.

SPEAKER_01 38:04

Yeah, that's interesting. I think because I move away from pain, I was like, oh, of course.

SPEAKER_00 38:10

Yeah, I will sit in uncomfortable situations much longer than I need to at a detriment to myself. So I can acknowledge these fears, I don't like them. I cannot say that they are as motivating for me as it is the desire, like when I think about the life I want to live, is much more of a draw to me than moving away from the pain points.

SPEAKER_01 38:30

So, for the people listening, a quick and easy way to kind of identify like, am I a move towards pleasure or move away from pain person is like why do you brush your teeth? Do you brush your teeth because you want to have healthy, beautiful teeth, or do you brush your teeth because you don't want them to fall out of your mouth? I think the same could be said for like working out. Are you working out because you like want to have the healthiest body look really great, or are you working out because you don't want to be fat?

SPEAKER_00 38:58

Oh, see, okay, let's talk about it. Like, you know what's funny is I think Frank and I, my husband and I might have different motivations. Because I he works out because he's like, I don't want you can correct me if I'm wrong, he's somewhere in here reading. I think he works out because he doesn't want to look bad or be like unhealthy with longevity.

SPEAKER_01 39:17

You're oh so he's moving towards the positive.

SPEAKER_00 39:22

No, I think he moves away. Like again with the working out.

SPEAKER_01 39:27

The exercise, like I feel like I'm exercising because I know it's good for my body. I want to like look really good, feel good, be healthy, reduce my inflammation, help maintain my joints, whatever. Or I work out because I don't want to be fat or gross or have people think like I look yucky.

SPEAKER_00 39:48

So I actually, my motivation for working out will always be something I'm looking to achieve on the like a pot pleasure thing I'm working towards. So, for example, the way I hack myself is I will be like for this year, right? I have certain things that I want to do. Like I want to do a really long walk, obviously, we have our hikes that we're training for. So, like those are things that I go, I'm gonna move towards those. But if someone was like, you have to work out because you don't want to be unhealthy, unfortunately, that is not yeah, that does not move me enough. But working out towards a bigger goal that's like I'm moving like towards that is going to motivate me a lot more than me moving away from the horrible things people say might happen.

SPEAKER_01 40:24

So you and I are opposites in that. So like you sign up for challenges because you're like, I want to move towards this really cool goal. Yeah, I sign up for challenges so I don't like become lazy and complacent, and I'm like, I don't want to be the last person across the finish line, so I need to train for this thing.

SPEAKER_00 40:42

That was more motivating for me because it just doesn't motivate me.

SPEAKER_01 40:46

It will not move me that I feel like yours is better.

SPEAKER_00 40:50

Mine sounds really vain. Well, no, because it could also be like like it's not just always vain, it could be like if someone's like, you're gonna have a heart attack if you don't work out. Someone might be like, I gotta work out okay, I'll work out. Yeah, so it could be like that. Because I think that's what Frank does. I think he's like, Well, I don't want to be like this, so I'm gonna work out. So he's moving away from a pain point.

SPEAKER_01 41:12

Yeah, yeah. So just yeah, see where you fall on that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:20

Because like when you guys talk about stuff, I'm just like, I'm not as motivated for that. Not like we can't have the same things, like the same outward goal, but it's like just the different things like we're moving towards. Sometimes both of you guys have said something I go, I know I just don't relate to that. Not in a bad way, it's not like it's bad or good, it's just like not the same, you know. Oh, it is, yeah. Yeah, okay, so basic fears of each number. So a one has a huge fear of being bad, corrupt, evil, or defective. And I think one of the things with this that's interesting is people are gonna think like the morals are not morals necessarily society, it's the morals that the one put on themselves. Important thing to because some people might be a one and they're like, Well, I don't have a fear, I will do this thing that might be like bad by society standards, but it's good according to them. So the ethics within a one is often self-defined or within like their culture, not necessarily like what we're defining as good or bad, it's what they're defining as good or bad. Yeah, and they do not want to be bad according to their own definition by any means. I think that might be one of their biggest things.

SPEAKER_01 42:22

Um, yeah, so they're very black and white people.

SPEAKER_00 42:25

Yeah, I also think that they ignore a lot of things, like there's like a piece of if there is a piece that's gray or isn't considered what they think is good, I think they ignore that side of them a lot. A good example is ones tend to fall into a lot of anger, but they do not realize they have any anger.

SPEAKER_01 42:43

Yeah, it's another thing that we didn't touch on when we were explaining the enagram is that there's triads. So ones, nines, and eights are the anger triad. So that's their basic emotion.

SPEAKER_00 42:58

Also it's core emotional. So they also tend to make decisions from their gut. So we have the we have the anger slash instinctual, and then so you have an anger base, which are going to be the ones, nines, and eights. Then you have the feelers, which are gonna be the twos, two, three, and four, and then you have the brain people, the thinkers, which the five, six, and seven, which are gonna be the thinkers, and so this also motivates like what part of you that you're in tune to, and then you also have the people who are like anger-based.

SPEAKER_01 43:36

Yes, two, three, four is shame. And then fear. And five, six, seven. They're more fear based.

SPEAKER_00 43:48

So those are each of the triads. We will go more in depth in a future podcast on them. But when you're looking at um each Enneagram, each Enneagram has its own core based. Fear just like they have their own Corbeys want.

SPEAKER_01 44:04

Twos, fear of being unworthy of being loved. Threes, fear of being worthless or without inherent value. So I think those could kind of feel the same, but they are different.

SPEAKER_00 44:16

Because I think so. Two's feel have a huge fear of not being loved. So what they do is they do acts of service and things for other people and are like the first to show up to bring stuff to like they're called the helpers. They're gonna show up and be like, there's a volunteer organization is probably a lot too much. What do you need? Yeah, what do you need? And they're doing that though, their motivation is because they don't feel loved enough. But if they do this action, they're gonna get love in return. So they feel like they have to have, they have to do something to get love. That they're just them just being by themselves is not enough. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:53

And with threes like worthlessness or without inherent value, I feel like that's where you need the accolades, the achievements to say, like, look, I am valuable.

SPEAKER_00 45:02

But I also what I find interesting about threes is um, because in the business world, there's a lot of threes, right? And they just achieve, achieve, achieve, cross up check, you know, I did this, I did this, and then um I still feel like they often just don't feel worthy of of love in that sense. And um, and they just like don't feel worthy to like just be as well. So it's a little bit different. So they feel like they have to be like showing that they're worthy through their actions. Like, look, I did an Iron Man, am I worthy yet? You know, I built this business, am I worthy yet? I um even even if they're creative people, like I created this artwork, am I worthy yet? And so that's that's the hard part about threes is like you have this fear that you are not worthy of anything, despite all the evidence being against that, because that worthiness has to come from within.

SPEAKER_01 45:49

Yeah, it all comes from within, guys. Uh, number fours, which I feel like fours are rare in this world, they are when you know them.

SPEAKER_00 45:59

We've met a couple floors, I know a couple floors, and they're interesting because, well, their fear is being uh without any identity or personal significance, so they're like individualists, they want you to see them as unique, and and they're usually called like I think the art realm often, but their biggest thing is always artists, yeah. It could also be even if you're in like the business world, it's like their business is gonna look a little more of a different path that others aren't taking because they're like they just want to be seen as like you don't just fall in and get disappeared within the masses, you are special enough just in your own right.

SPEAKER_01 46:39

Yeah, fives are their fear is being useless, incapable, or incompetent.

SPEAKER_00 46:45

And so they seek out a lot by going into more like how much knowledge can I consume?

SPEAKER_01 46:51

And they often like a lot of PhDs, masters.

SPEAKER_00 46:55

They're the person who's like, oh, let's go, let's go back to school and study some more, or they master something to a point that you're just like, this is insane that you even know this much about it. Um, but that is that is a way of getting security for them, is showing, like, look, I'm I can do all this stuff, I have all this knowledge, I am so valuable because look at all this stuff I know. And they just honestly, if you're feeling like if you're that kind of person, um they actually need to work on being decisive because I think those people also really struggle with being like decisive in life. So the only thing they're decisive about is like, I need more knowledge, and I feel like I have to keep gaining it till I can know exactly what the right answer is because they don't want to seem invaluable or incompetent by any means, so they focus so much on the right decision, which they can might look like ones too in that sense, right? Like, what's the right thing? But it's not really about if it's right or wrong. Yes, it's really about that like you you do have enough already, you know, you really don't need more knowledge to be worthy. It's funny, like it's very easy to tell, I think, to identify other people versus yourself that you're close with. Um, sixes are really interesting. Uh, sixes are they have a huge fear of being without support or guidance, but what I think they do is they like latch on and create these communities around them and loyalty, like they're the people that are like a ride or die. Um, but they also like their strength is also understanding their own independence.

SPEAKER_01 48:22

Yeah, they're great team players.

SPEAKER_00 48:25

Yeah, seriously.

SPEAKER_01 48:29

Um, number sevens, fear of being deprived or trapped in pain.

SPEAKER_00 48:35

This is an interesting one, I think because it's my wing. Um, so people look like sevens are like people who like to travel a lot, which everyone loves to travel these days. So, um, but the sevens constantly are seeking like novelty, new relationships, new things because they actually hate pain. So sevens biggest growth is acknowledging the pain that they're feeling or what is hard to do because they I think they come also really flighty because they're like, Oh, look, I'll just go to this new country and like take a wedd class and just learn those new things and I'll make all new friends this year. It's not a big deal. Instead of having those hard conversations with people that have been around them for a long time. Sevens really hate looking at the dark side, like they are they look like eternal optimists because they're like everything's always rosy, but like behind them, there's like chaos and like you know, darkness, and they're like, We're gonna look over here at the sun and it's wonderful. And so sevens have a lot of work on being like, I'm gonna sit and have hard work and work through something.

SPEAKER_01 49:33

Yeah, one of my best friends is a seven, and she had said to me on multiple occasions, like, I can't be like tied down in this monotony of life where my soul will just be crushed and I need this freedom.

SPEAKER_00 49:45

Yeah, and it it's because being trapped is like a big fear. Yeah, yeah. So eights are the fear of being harmed or controlled by others. Um, yeah, no, this one, this one is is I think eights more than anyone connect to Brene Brown's work on vulnerability because it's the one thing they have to learn is that you can be without defenses and still be safe.

SPEAKER_01 50:13

But that's a hard thing for anyone, and then have that be the main thing you struggle with.

SPEAKER_00 50:17

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because one of the things people don't realize about eights, so if you are an eight, you're gonna be like, finally, somebody says this. Because all the stuff on Instagrams out there on eights are always like, they're tough and they're mean, and I've always like to describe them as complete assholes. And I actually think eights are really interesting because what they have is very deep armor, so there's like a wall and a wall and a wall, and they do that to protect themselves because they found that people have betrayed them in the past, and this betrayal could be from like a parent or from you know, it starts at a very young age where they have to take on a responsibility before they're ready, and then they're like, Well, if I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna protect this, and they'll allow people into that protective realm. But I feel like anyone who gets close with an eight realizes they're actually like the biggest softies and babies in the world. Like, I actually feel like eights are very gentle behind the armor, they're so and would do like anything for the people they love them. Yeah, they will fight, they will fight for people, but I think it's very hard to get past that armor. So if you meet them and you're on the other side of the armor, you're like, these are prickly people, or these are really like some people like that's a very intimidating person, but they're actually probably the softest people once you get to know them.

SPEAKER_01 51:24

Yeah, my mom is also an eight, and I feel like she also is the most nurturing. Like, if you've ever seen her with a baby or animals, you're like, oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:33

I told that to my husband, we were talking about integrands the other day. I was like, I bet you all eights love animals. Eights are obsessed with their dogs for sure because it's a spot that is safe to be vulnerable and not have any balls up, and it's exhausting.

SPEAKER_01 51:45

Exhausting of like yeah, betrayal.

SPEAKER_00 51:48

So I think when you have that space where you can be nurturing, you're like going into their highest levels, moving into the nurturing too. So if you see that, that's like a really healthy version of an eight.

SPEAKER_01 51:58

Yeah. And then the last one we have is number nine fear of loss of connection or fragmentation.

SPEAKER_00 52:06

So nines are the peacekeeper.

SPEAKER_01 52:07

I have a ton of nines in my family.

SPEAKER_00 52:08

My mom's a nine. Nines are interesting because they are like the nicest people and they're like the people at a party, like everybody loves being around a nine because they're just so they're so like easy to just be yourself around because they're so accepting. But nines, interestingly, the things where nines have to do for growth is they have to do sort of the upses of eights, eights have to be softer for their growth. Nines need to stand and have an opinion on something. So nines are the hardest ennegram to identify because they could look like anyone. Because they're the people who are like, I'm in a group of adventurers, you know what? I think I might like adventuring this month, and then they might enter into a group of artists and they're like, I guess I love painting, it sounds great, because they're just like here for the camaraderie in the good times. But nines growth comes from saying, Hey, what do I actually like? Who am I? And I'm gonna stand by that even if not everybody agrees with me. So it's becoming more of an individual, allows them to have like the reason they are so like wishy-washy on stuff. I do have deep opinions, but they don't give them in the world, is because it has that loss of connection, and so they always say, like, I'm whatever everybody else likes because that's gonna create that connection, or it might cause discomfort. Yeah, but on the other side of that discomfort is actually the true connection that they really want.

SPEAKER_01 53:25

Yeah, it's fascinating because I feel like with every type, obviously we all have our basic fears, and it's like when we allow those to kind of roll, I feel like it almost creates more of what we don't want.

SPEAKER_00 53:40

I think like when you go into that darker side, it puts you in that state that you said you don't want to be in your real field or actually actualized. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:49

It's just fascinating. It is I'll never not like love all this stuff. I know.

SPEAKER_00 53:54

And if you guys are loving this, I just need to know. So this is just our intro. We just wanted to lay out what the enagrams are, some of the misunderstandings of them. And going forward in this whole series, what we're gonna be doing is going by each individual number, and we're gonna be going into an actual deep dive: core motivation, core fear, healthy version, unhealthy version, how you show up in relationships, how if you're in a relationship with one of these people, you can show up for them. What is it like working with them? And then how do you actually apply this to your life to become the best version of you? And that's what we're gonna dive deeper into in the future episodes.

SPEAKER_01 54:29

Yeah, so between now and then, take the Enneagram test.

SPEAKER_00 54:33

Go top.com slash quiz. It'll be linked also to this episode.

SPEAKER_01 54:40

And then read a little bit about each and figure out which one is most true to your core.

SPEAKER_00 54:45

And if you can't figure it out or you need like the longer test, there is an option for that. So you can sign up for the longer test, better understanding, and you can also sign up and do an individual consult with each of us at any time, and we'll go deeper and help you understand exactly who you are and how you can apply this to your life personally. Yeah, I can't wait. Yeah, it's exciting. All right, well, that is gonna be it for us. Thank you for joining us. Thanks for joining us. We will see you next week.