Enneagram Type Two: The Helper

In this episode of At the Table by Innate Women, we explore Enneagram Type 2, The Giver, and what it really means to build a life around caring for others. This conversation goes beyond the surface of being “helpful” and gets into the deeper pattern of how Type 2 women often tie their worth to being needed, relied on, and indispensable. We talk about how this shows up in relationships, business, and everyday life, and why so many high-capacity women find themselves feeling exhausted, unseen, or unfulfilled despite doing everything for everyone else. This episode is about recognizing the difference between genuine connection and overgiving, learning how to identify your own needs, and understanding that love and worth are not something you have to earn. If you’ve ever felt like you’re the one holding everything together but quietly losing yourself in the process, this conversation will challenge you to step back into your own life with more clarity, boundaries, and self-awareness.

Welcome to the table

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

All right. Well, welcome to At the Table. Today we are discussing Enneagram twos, which I feel like everybody has a two in their life. And it is uh both you and I have a lot of twos in our life. So this is one where um we're gonna go deep because we know we know all the sides of twos. Yes. And then full disclosure, my husband's a two, and he did say that he said go ahead and use him as an example and just to help showcase what twos are like. But maybe this is just a two being helpful, and he actually does it one. Who knows?

SPEAKER_03 0:38

We'll be very, very grateful and tell him how much we appreciate it. We love him for it.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Yeah, yeah. Actually, that's something I could do better in our relationship with a two is like being more like verbal affirmations. Because I don't do like that's not a high like and if you look at like love languages, it's just like not a high one for me. So I don't do it a lot.

SPEAKER_03 0:58

My husband's not a two, but do you well let's talk about the twos, and then I was gonna ask, do you think most twos have a um like an affirmation love language?

SPEAKER_01 1:10

It's service to others. Uh but sometimes with love languages show it. That's what I was gonna say is how they show it versus how they always want to receive it is not always the same. I think he likes to receive like, hey, you're doing great. Hey, I appreciate it. I think he actually likes words of affirmation. I I've increased him in our relationship. I don't think he like he's showing it through words of affirmation, but not necessarily what he always wants. But I think that's how where we're not talking about this on this going in depth, but when it comes to love languages, I don't think they discuss more enough about like I think there's too much assumption of if this is what you want or how you give it, is that how you want it back too? And it doesn't always match.

SPEAKER_03 1:54

Yeah, I never thought that it was like uh a one-for-one.

SPEAKER_01 1:57

Yeah, I did when I first read it. I thought it was like, like, oh well, they make it sound like that kind of. Yeah, like you want this, so you must give, or you give this away, so you must want it back that way too. But you know, if your bucket's not filled another blaze, you might want it in a different way.

SPEAKER_03 2:13

Just as a quick aside, this is nothing to do with the podcast. How do you feel it, Megan? And how do you give it love?

SPEAKER_01 2:20

Um I like time as you can tell quality time if you can like look at like any way that I get upset with people. It's always because I didn't get the quality time I want. Um, and then I give it through gifts, actually. I do a lot.

SPEAKER_03 2:36

Oh my gosh, we're the exact same.

SPEAKER_01 2:38

Yeah, I do a lot because I I'm I feel like I think about gifts. I want to do um I want to do thoughtful gifts because I feel like that's but I might but I do know though also is look, my two husband just brought me coffee before he goes to the gym. Do you want to say hi?

SPEAKER_03 2:56

You're walking away.

SPEAKER_01 2:57

Oh, hi Frank. That's a two. Uh so um we'll get into that, but yeah, I I definitely like notice that I will give a lot of gifts and like try and be really thoughtful about what people would want. And um, and it's interesting that in my relationship, neither Frank nor I how we like to receive is high with gifts. So I've had to like change that.

SPEAKER_03 3:20

Yeah. My husband could care less about gifts.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

How how crazy that's how you like to give it.

SPEAKER_03 3:26

What do you do? Um, I just do it anyway. Okay. What is he like? Physical touch. Um which I don't hate, but after having a child, I'm like, don't touch me. Well, especially at the age of your child. Yes, he touches me all the time.

SPEAKER_01 3:44

Yeah, I've heard this from I've heard this from moms like whole life, actually. So it's like came to my like forefront of attention, is and I don't think it's talked enough about with women, is how much um when you have especially like toddler age baby into toddler age, and you always have physical touch with this child, that like it makes it really hard to want physical touch from anyone else. Yeah, because you need that time apart.

SPEAKER_03 4:11

I know that that's how he feels loved, and like so. I'm just like, okay.

SPEAKER_01 4:16

Yeah, like I guess we can hug. Yeah, yeah. Or maybe like a backdrop, holding hands like on the couch and stuff like that. Yeah, it is very interesting. I mean, it is it's also just a physical touch, it's like high on mine though, too. But I think sometimes people think of it like as intimacy, but it's more just like if we're on the couch, I want Frank to hold my foot. Or yeah, yeah, like I just want to be like close to him. So physical tie and physical touch together is real nice because I was like, we're just gonna sit together closely. Yeah, yeah. And we could we could do a whole one on love languages because you know what else I've discovered about them is that like with time, because I think me, you, and my husband are all like how we like to receive is time, but um, it's not all the same. Like quality time for me is like a deep conversation, like you know how we had a conversation the day, and I was like, Oh, good, quality time together, um, connecting through like verbal connection, and then like for him, it's just if we're in the same room.

SPEAKER_03 5:18

Yeah, that's kind of how mine is. Yeah, you're not like Frank. I just need to be like near you, and I will have like deep conversations with people, but I feel like I need to spend a certain amount of time just with you before I can get there.

SPEAKER_01 5:32

Get there, yeah. No, for me, if I like have have a good conversation with someone, then I'm like, wow, that was quality. But if we're just sitting together and nothing happens, and I'm just like who are you? Yeah, it doesn't count as quality time for me. So that Frank had to learn that because we would just be like together. He's like, doesn't that count? I was like, no, no, sir. So you haven't put effort in. Anyway, um back to twos. Back to twos. Okay, so I love twos. Um, we have to do a little disclaimer for twos. Women, the traits of a two, even though we're looking at motivation, you know, people still look at the traits, the traits of a two is exactly what America puts on women. So as a result, women test high as two, and there are women as twos, obviously, we know them, but if you test high as a two as a female, especially, you have got to look at your other numbers that are high up there too, like as well, because it's not most people who test as twos aren't necessarily twos, uh, because we're taught to be of service to others, so people think, well, I'm of service to others, I must be a two. But um, twos, it's not just about being of service to others, there's a lot, it's why they are of service to others. Yeah, and so like twos are very motivated by wanting the love, so they give what they want, and so they they want to be loved and adored, and they feel like their presence isn't enough. So they are people who um I think a lot of nine sometimes test this twos, they are not service altruistic um or passive, they are very much like, I am giving this to you and I need this back. And if they don't get it back, they will get very resentful and will start to feel like um like like a martyr in the sense of like look at all I've done in this world, and nobody's here for me, but I'm doing all this, and they they'll keep showing up, but they also rub it in their face, your face that they've like helped you, at least an unhealthy version. And so there's a lot more like it's not just about helping, but it's they want to be seen helping and they want you to know that they help. So if you're like a thinking if you like test as a high, do you help? But you also need people to know you're very uh more likely like insert yourself into people's lives uh pretty deeply because you want that deeper connection, so they do they feel eventually like they can't live without you. That would be like bring joy to an average two. Is like, oh my god, these people could never without me because I am so helpful, and um, they're going to I think can be like your best friend immediately. Like everybody likes twos, but they're not passive, meek people. They're very much like I'm a two, I'm here to help, and you're gonna know that I'm gonna be your best friend and help you.

SPEAKER_03 8:16

Yeah, twos are typically pretty social people. I mean, not always, but I would say on the whole, they're pretty social. They usually have a lot of friends, or they'll be like the closest, deepest, best friend. Yeah, they're not gonna be loners. No, no, no, no, no. Even unhealthy twos, I feel like, still maintain maybe not a lot of deep friendships or quality friendships, but a lot of like friendships, acquaintances. They're always gonna have people around them. They're in, they're all up in the everyone's business.

SPEAKER_01 8:54

Which a nice way. Yeah, which everyone knows that person where you like meet them and then they make you feel so special. Two's have that power, they make you feel seen, they make you feel special, and then they just help you. And so you're like, Man, if you need something done and you need help, like you ask a two. They're gonna be like, I am here, I'm gonna show up, we're gonna do this, work together. It's just in the end, they also want you to recognize that they did all that work.

SPEAKER_03 9:17

Yeah, typically very charismatic people. I would say, like, you might, if you're the type of person where you're like, people just tell me things. I just met them. You might be a two.

SPEAKER_01 9:29

We talk about that with Frank a lot. It happens with Frank all the time. All the time. Like in the office, people will he'll sometimes like we always get intimate information in our field, but sometimes people tell him stuff. And I was like, How did that conversation even happen? Like, how does someone just share that with you? Yeah, like that was only visit two, and you found out what about them? And he's like, Yeah, they just love to share. And they do, like people just tell him stuff, and because he creates such a safe environment, um, that people are like, of course I'm gonna share this information. Um, and the other thing, they're very generous people. When I met my husband, one of the very first things when we were talking about like planning our life together, he would be like, Um, I want like his goals in life are how can he give back? And so he wants to have scholarships, he wants to um donate to charities. Yeah, his ideal world is, you know, as we go, it's like, how can we like donate more? How could we help somebody through school? How can we help local businesses and invest in them? He has a big drive through generosity.

SPEAKER_03 10:31

You know what's so interesting is so I was mistyped as a two. And when Frank and I started working together, for women, yeah. For for women, very common, you were like, You're not a two, Skyler, because me and Frank are like similar but also like starkly different. And what's funny that made me think of that is you said in Frank's ideal world, he would be super altruistic, you'd have abundance, you could just give it away. And in my ideal world, it would be like um, you know, in the movie The Proposal, where like she goes back to his hometown in Alaska, and it's all his family has all of these like small businesses.

SPEAKER_01 11:10

That would be like my idea, like popping up all these small businesses that would support the community, and it really always but your name's on all of them, and everybody knows that, yeah. And you're gonna also probably want to be recognized, yeah, and you want to be recognized, so he would want to be recognized for his good work, but he'd want it in like a sense of like he doesn't want his name on everything, he would want it in the sense of an award. Does that make sense? Like, like we'd have a whole ceremony and be like, you are the best, like we love that, okay, yeah, yeah, and just like thinking, like, yeah, and like, but everyone's celebrating together, he's not like on a podium up by himself, it's like we're all together and celebrating Frank, and he'd be like, Yay! But um, for you, you would want to be like on a podium and be like, we're all celebrating Skylar, and that's a three, the difference because you can you're still very caring and altruistic, but it should it's it goes back to how it shows up. Yeah, I can look up that motivation, which I never actually realized that you would want a town like that.

SPEAKER_03 12:04

I would love I would love that. Like, I wouldn't have to run every business, but to be able to like facilitate it so that like our community could have like those small businesses that you know supports like actual families.

SPEAKER_01 12:18

Yeah, you know what's so funny is I would want something similar. Like we'd all want a town that we have helped build, but I just want to be in charge of all the businesses to make sure they're doing it right. What a trio you would be. And you would be town. Yeah, because Freight doesn't care about being in charge, he just wants to be helpful. Oh, I would I would love that. I would love that. I think I would I always say I would be very good at being in charge of the world because I know I would be very fair.

SPEAKER_03 12:44

You would be the most fair, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:46

And that would be, you know, that's an eight when we get to that.

SPEAKER_03 12:50

Unless we're also gonna touch on eights because twos, when they're unhealthy, move to the not so pretty parts of eights. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 13:00

Yeah, well, yes. Well, speaking of twos, um, twos are interesting because, like we talked about when you meet them, like you just feel love from them and like you just feel good and you feel like you can be yourself. And it's like there's a lot of happiness and joy around twos, especially when they're average to healthy, um, and they don't feel taken advantage of. In that scenario, they're just like everyone's best friend, everyone loves having them around, they're gonna be invited to every party. But then you also have the other side, which when you're looking to identify, I think this is very helpful, is always looking at like the darker side of the Innegram. And a two struggles a lot with pride, self-deception, so they lie to themselves a lot, and they will actually be too involved in people's lives and manipulate. So that is a really big thing. Like when you look at yourself, you're really unhealthy. Are you telling lies to make yourself look like the good guy and manipulating other people to do what you think they should be doing, and it's not really about them any longer, it's about you. And then they also it's that whole need for attention, like the the pride of like I'm I'm at service, but I also want you to know I'm at service, and I want to be recognized for my service, and that's the darker side of twos, and it can get dark, I think.

SPEAKER_03 14:12

Yes, and I also so if you remember back to our first our intro episode, every Enigram type has their their passions or their their capital sin, and pride is the one of two, and I think in particular, twos, and uh honestly the whole feeling triad. So two, three, four. Oh, we are in the we are in the feeling triad now. We've shifted because ones were thinking. Um they have a really hard time doing the like shadow work or the the work, the self-improvement side of themselves where they have to analyze the not so pretty parts because it has you have to confront the things you're trying so hard to conceal, and the the the emotion that this triad, so two, threes, and fours, really struggle with is shame. So you have kind of like a double wham, double whammy where it's like to do the work, you have to confront the stuff that makes you feel the most shameful, and so you're like, I just not, and people naturally tend to hide shame, so they don't.

SPEAKER_01 15:14

I mean, part of it is like the thing, so twos can feel worthless, and so that's part of their motivation is to feel like they have worth in this world and they do it through acts of service and showing up for you in different ways, and so shame is really interesting because like with shame, people tend to create what they call like a super ego to hide the shame, so they don't want to face their shame. They're gonna like, let's put this over here and never face it, and then we'll create this ego of the pride comes in the sense of, and this is like a less average to lower health person that the two would say things like, you know, look how great I am, look at all the work I do here, look how much I help people. Everyone should be appreciative of everything I do because they would have nothing if it wasn't for all the work that I do. And you're gonna see that show up, but all of that is really a facade for that sense, that huge fear of not feeling like they're they're uh valued or worthwhile or worthy. And so they have this whole shame of like, maybe, maybe I'm not really um like valuable in this world, and so they create that value and then they hide their shame and that fear through the pride, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:25

So worthiness for the whole feeling triad is going to be kind of like a re-occurring theme, and twos feel worthy when they receive love, they do, they definitely need that, they need validation until they can unless they're like their healthiest side, then they could be like give themselves that validation, and that's what you're working towards if you're a two.

SPEAKER_01 16:50

You are working towards self-validation, the knowledge that you're needing it from the external, yeah. The knowledge that you do enough, you are enough, you don't have to kill yourself to get uh through service to get rewarded because eights will or eights, uh twos will ignore um their own needs, so that's where this resentment comes in and the pride and the like the frustration of like if I'm gonna be ignoring my needs for your needs, you better at least recognize that because when like in certain situations they might be like, Okay, I'm gonna let's say you're doing like we have to all throw a party together. A two is gonna be like, Okay, I'll do the balloons, I'm gonna set up here, I'm gonna help clean, and they will do every task, um, just like constantly da-da-da-da. And then they also have to show up and socialize and make sure the everyone's happy at the party. And so, like, if we have people over, like I have to remind Frank, like, hey, it is like it's not your job to make sure everyone's having a good time. They just are so they feel like this not only do they have to do all the behind-the-scenes work, they have to show up and then make sure every single person is their job to make sure every single person is happy and feels included and loved, and that's a lot to put on a person, and so as a result, they make they'll like okay, well, even if I have this need, we're not going to address that need because this person might need this, and so big growth will come when you start to say, Hey, what are my needs? and you start to fulfill those needs. Yeah, it's it's hard work, but that's why we love the Enneagram because like when you start, like the whole point of this is so you can understand like where am I at, and then where do I need to go? And then you start applying this. So if you're like, man, I have been known to insert myself in people's lives, give, give, give, and then I get like if you notice a pattern because this is looking at your own patterns in your life. Like, if you're two, you're gonna see this show up and be like, oh my god, I've done that. So if you're like, hey, I've like lost friends because like I met them immediately, we're best friends. I show up, I show up, I show up, and then I'm mad at them because they don't show up. So then I have a big conversation, uh a huge argument because an unhealthy two will show up sometimes, like an eight, which will be like big energy. And then that person's like, whoa, where did this all come from? And then that friendship can disappear. And then twos have to go through that, like, oh my gosh, I lost this friend, and there's a lot to it. But like, you know, if you've noticed that pattern of you doing that, you're probably a two. But once you know the pattern, then that's when you start to do this work of like, okay, how do I show up differently? How do I not, how do I show up for someone and not abandon myself? And that when you can start working through that, that's when you become like the best version of a two, which is like so great.

SPEAKER_03 19:36

Yeah, because I also find that twos can sometimes become I also agree with threes as well, like chameleons. Um, so for example, you're dating someone and all of a sudden their interests are your interests, or you like someone and you know that they like French poetry, and then you like research it, and then you tell them all about French poetry, and they're like, Oh, I love French poetry. So you know it's like kind of you're adopting what they like.

SPEAKER_01 20:07

Yes, but it does look a little bit different because nines, nines are probably the most chameleon where they actually like will become that. Twos will do it where it's like if this is your interest. Yeah, so twos will like show up. So, like, for example, if I like like I love, here's a great example. I love reading. Frank did not come into our relationship as like an avid reader, but I was like, this matters to me if we have like a couple, you know, like an hour a day that we end our day reading, because that's just how like you know, I want to function. And he's like, Okay, like because this matters to you, his service will be I'm gonna show up and read. And he's picked up that hobby now, and now he it took us like two years to find books that he loves, but he like stuck with it and would show up, but he also did not always share his own interests with me, so it was always about my interests, and then he would like repress his own. So, for example, like he likes um anime and um I did not know this because it's not it's not pertinent, it's not pertinent for you to know. So these are like sides of him. Um, and he likes, you know, he goes to CrossFit, he's very avid CrossFitter, and so like in our relationship, I have to be more aware of like and more like conscious, like what are his interests that he's not actually revealing. To me, it's taking me sometimes years to find out certain things are his interests, and he'll he'll participate in his own like hobbies privately, and I it and then like he'll participate in all of my stuff. I like gardening. Guess who loves to garden now? Frank does, you know, like I need help around the house, he's gonna help around the house. He, you know, if I need this for work and we're gonna show up to this event, he's showing up to that event. And then as we've grown in this couple and I've understood twos better, now it's like, okay, there's a show that he likes, um, and now I like it too. But like I'm uh I had to be open to learning about what his interests are and participating in them as well. But it it takes like that consciousness. Yeah, because twos are gonna like abandon themselves for others, so he's like doing it on the side. And then like participating fully in like my interests, and it's very interesting because like a part of our growth as a couple also is like him being like in this couple is not abandoning himself for my for service to me, and so as like if you're married to a two, you have to be aware of like one, don't take advantage of their goodwill, and two, like taking time to be like, Well, what are you actually interested in? Because they have their interests, they're just not telling you because they don't want to be an inconvenience to you, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:31

Yeah, so I guess what I was referring to more than like being a chameleon is the abandoning themselves, yeah, to show that they love you with your interests, yeah, and they and they they do repress also if they get hurt.

SPEAKER_01 22:47

So, like if you are you have like a best friend with the two or like they're in your life, if they're hurt, they will definitely suppress it. So they do two things they'll either suppress it and really not share with you and just like be hurt, like over on the side, or it'll show up where they're hurt, but they're not gonna let you know because it might not be of service to you, but they might show up with more pride and like more ego-based. So if you see a very ego-based two, or you are one, you are hiding a hurt that you have.

SPEAKER_03 23:18

So let's talk about what twos kind of look like in childhood, or maybe what they experienced during their childhood. Actually, I think so. My dad's a two, your dad was a two too, and your sister's a two.

SPEAKER_01 23:32

I have a lot of twos. You have a lot of two. I I do have a lot of two. I guess I could also talk about how that shows up because they weren't always healthy twos, and they have different wings.

SPEAKER_03 23:41

Oh, they do? I think your dad a four-wing?

unknown 23:44

Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:45

Not a four-wing.

SPEAKER_01 23:46

A two with a I think my dad was the same as Frank, a two with a three, but my sister's a two um with a one wing, I believe.

SPEAKER_03 23:53

That makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 23:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:56

I think my dad's a two with a actually he might be a two with a one. He's kind of anal.

SPEAKER_01 24:01

Yeah. Well, they're they're I don't think they're as well, I mean, like, both are really social, but I think two with ones just have a well, we'll get to the wings in a minute.

SPEAKER_03 24:11

Yeah. But let's talk about their childhood. I what I was going to say was I feel that the childhood feelings of twos are kind of like sad. I know in our opening episode, I was like, wow, these are the hurts of the child enneagrams are really sad, and this feeling is like extra sex.

SPEAKER_01 24:29

I think because you're the thick of motherhood, you're like also very attuned. Like, how is everything influencing my child?

SPEAKER_03 24:38

What am I damaging my child right now?

SPEAKER_01 24:40

Well, yeah. What you gotta talk about it's not really damaging, it's just like how yeah, because we all have different things. Yeah, yeah, and how it shows up. But I think we think your child's a seven, right?

SPEAKER_03 24:50

I think he's going to be a seven. We'll have to wait to see. Even my mom was like, when I was on the phone with her the other day, she was like, he is going to be a thrill seeker.

SPEAKER_01 25:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:02

And I was like, Yeah, I know it stresses me out.

SPEAKER_01 25:05

But you know, different integrams could seek thrills. Like Frank would love to jump out of planes if I was okay with that. Please don't ever do that, Frank. Yeah, I never wanted to do that. He's he's getting ready to leave for the gym, but he's I know he's listening. Um so yeah, twos are interesting because I when we did the integrams, Frank and I did discuss a lot um about what it's like to be a two as a child. And I I think it is there I don't know if it's like a sadness, but there is this sense of like duty to family and and making sure it's not like about creating peace, but making sure everyone's taken care of and happy. And two children are like, okay, they're they're so like hyper-aware of the people's needs around them that it's like a vigilance, which has to be hard in the nervous system.

SPEAKER_03 25:58

Yeah, exhausting. Beadrenal fatigue. But yeah, so during childhood, to start to believe a couple different things, they feel, or rather, they start to believe they need to put others' needs in front of their own. They feel that they need to give in order to receive, whether that be like love or or affection or anything like that, and then that they have to earn their place for affection in others because it it they they believe that they simply won't be loved or have affection for just being, being being themselves.

SPEAKER_01 26:35

Well, since I grew up with my sister with her in childhood, she inserted herself in everybody's life, and she also knows everything about everybody. If you ever need to know anything about our small town and the people in it, she could tell you. Two can be very prone to gossip because it makes them feel closer to other people, and they wanted they they insert themselves in people's lives, so they they just do know stuff. Yeah, they ask all the questions, and so you know, my sister wasn't the healthiest too growing up because she was, I would describe as mean, and um I tell her, and um, but you know, she wanted to be the most loved in the household, and so having siblings, if you feel like another sibling might be getting more in love than you, she felt very offended by that. So if like she felt like I was getting more love than her, she would be like, that's not acceptable. Um, but she would also like like if there was guests over, she would go around and talk to every single guest and be like, Oh my gosh, hello, how are you? I'm Rachel. People would be like, What a charming child. And I on the other hand was like, I am not talking to these adults, like they have no power over me. I'm gonna be in the corner doing my own thing. But like, even now when I look at Rachel interact, she can be so charming. Frank can too, they're so charming, they remember everything about people and they make them feel so seen, and that develops. Like, Rachel started like I distinctly remember her as a child being like that. But at the same time, they're not always aware of their own needs being met, and then they have a lot of anger about that, yes, because everyone, everyone needs that validation, but so much more for twos.

SPEAKER_03 28:17

Um, yeah, it's kind of funny. So many twos in our lives. But my dad, he so growing up, he was the fourth of five children, and his mom had his mom was mean, but he felt my mom will even be like, Jim was the forgotten child, like ignored. So he like just wanted love. And if you met my dad now, you'd be like, Yeah, he's awesome. Everyone loves him, very social. He wants to be like, he recently retired, but he like wanted to be like the popular guy.

SPEAKER_01 28:50

He was which he was. Two's love being popular, it's very important to them.

SPEAKER_03 28:56

Like when we would go to the grocery store, he would know all these people and stop to talk to them, and it would drive it drives my mom crazy.

SPEAKER_01 29:03

Well, that's how it was going to the like if we went to dinner as a family growing up, my dad would walk by and know everybody at every table and be like, hey, you know, Jim, what's up? And shake the hand, and they'd have these mini conversations.

SPEAKER_03 29:13

So good.

SPEAKER_01 29:14

Yes, yes. And so, like anybody he if he met anyone in a room even once, he'd walk up and be like, hey, and like talk to them, shake their hand, and like made them feel feel seen. But with all of that, something, especially as like a child, this is a really interesting side I don't think it's talked about enough with twos, is I think they struggle knowing what they like. A hundred percent. I think twos struggle a lot with their own opinion. I think they can identify what other people like. I think they have a very hard time knowing if they like something. Um, even Frank with movies, he's like, I'm a bad movie critic, I like everything. And I'm like, there's no way, there's no way you like everything. You do, you are a movie critic, you can be a movie critic. It's just you're taught from a really young age to not have your own interest because it could put someone else out. Um, the interest of twos, I think, even as a child is other people, and so like I see this in my sister a lot. She only in her late 30s, early 40s has started to find hobbies that she likes. It's taken her that long because she would participate in things other people like, or how do we serve other people instead of having her own interests? And finally, she like loves sourdough bread, and she's a good thing, she's great at it. She's so good at it.

SPEAKER_03 30:24

I'm honestly really impressed.

SPEAKER_01 30:26

I am too. Oh, it's funny because she's not a great cook. Yeah. And then one day she's like, I make sourdough bread. And it is honestly like people will be like, This is the best bread they've ever had, and they're not like she loves it, she still does it, she sells it, like all the things. So if you need it and you're in Florida, please hit my sister up. Um, but like she didn't really discover her own interests until her adulthood, and she started healing and becoming a better version of herself because as a child, she would do what would be most popular, what other f people were doing, but she wanted to be a part of the crowd.

SPEAKER_03 30:59

Yeah. For my dad, it was like everything his brothers were doing, his older brothers. Good and bad.

SPEAKER_01 31:06

Yeah, yeah, to be a part of it. Frank has an older cousin, he would just sort of, I feel like as a kid, follow along and do what they were doing. The other thing that's interesting is like making other people feel seen is in his self-abandonment, is um, since I can use I always wonder what he feels like when I'm talking about him. He's right here. Um the other thing that he does, like Frank's really talented and um like really good at stuff, so he can be like a winner at almost everything, but sometimes in competition, he does not go as hard as he could to make others included feel included. I would never do that. I know, I know. It's just something I've observed because at first I'd be like, because he'll be like, yeah, I'm not like a I'm not a bad, like a sore winner or a sore loser. And I was like, that's so interesting because like you can win at everything, like with the exception of basketball, you are good at everything. And um, and and I'm not even joking, like what I mean, he's like good at everything, he's he's just a very talented person, but like he doesn't boast those talents the way like a three would, or like I would as an eight, like I want you to know that can dominate you.

SPEAKER_03 32:07

Or like if a three if I'm bad at something, I just don't do it.

SPEAKER_01 32:09

You want to oh yeah, I would never he will downplay his own skills for camaraderie. And I'm always like, go out and kick their ass, babe, let's go. But I think privately, yeah, but no, but privately I think he's more like he'll be like, Yeah, I did really good across it, but he's not gonna be out and be like, I I depend on all of you, you know, like yes, who's on top? And I would totally do that. Um, an unhealthy version of me would, but um, he's like, he'll do it privately, like he'll come to me. He's like, he'd be really proud. And in a way, it's even still like self-abandonment of himself for like my my pride of him, or you know, the comfort of everybody else. They all feel like accepted and included. Oh, right. I know. I just find it so fascinating with twos that they're like that. Um, you know, where I don't think my sister's very boastful. She doesn't like to lose, but she's not like boastful in that sense.

SPEAKER_03 33:04

No, I've never gotten that vibe from her.

SPEAKER_01 33:06

No, she's more concerned about other people.

SPEAKER_03 33:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:10

That might explain as a kid why she didn't like me as much because I was definitely like, I will win at everything we do. As it goes. You two are also just very different people. Yeah. The most different. It's it's it is interesting. Um, but if you have a two-child, I personally think one of the best things you could do for them is just letting them have the space to have their own like interest and like explore that. And then also just letting them know that they are loved, even when they're not doing anything. Like it's very easy for a two-child if they're helping, like, oh, you're such a good helper, thank you, because it's like things we value. I think it's so important to also be like, you're so good, just as you are. You don't always have to be the helper. Um, you can just be good at anything else you're doing. Yeah. Albeit. Yeah, that's it for you. Yes, you are accepted exactly where you are. Um, and your love for who you are.

SPEAKER_03 34:09

Yeah. Which I do think there is more in like the parenting world, there's more awareness of that kind of movement than saying, like, you're so good because you are so quiet in church and sat so still. You know what I mean? Yeah, you're not like saying your child is good because of X, Y, and Z they do, or you love them because X, Y, and Z. It's more just like you.

SPEAKER_01 34:34

Yeah. Yeah. Which thank goodness for having that movement. Because when you let people know they're good or bad based on the actions they have, like, or they're worth it's not good or bad, worthy of love based on the actions that they can give you, is like not complexes, yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's how you instill trauma in your child. Uh let's try not to do that. Let's not do that. Um, but as like also as in a relationship with a two or anything, you just gotta let them know you love them for who they are, and that like they don't have to be of service to you to be worthy of that love. Okay, let's talk about the wing tights because this can be very influential. Um, a two with a one wing, which this is what uh I think my sister can be. Um, but they're they're a little more serious, they're not as like jovial. So I feel like these people will take things in life a little more serious and their service to others more seriously. So they actually at their best can be like the person, like Mother Teresa's a great example of this. Like they're gonna be out here serving and like they're gonna do it in any condition. And they'll do it um in a way because they just feel like they have to be of service to others in this like what's the word I'm looking for, in just like more of a humbling way, where it's not really about where people need to see you, look at it, but it's like look at me. Yeah, it's that there is suffering in this world and I have the ability to help it not suffer as much, so I'm gonna show up and and and help that. Um, they also struggle a lot where they might feel like they're very selfish people, and that's something wrong with them, and so they're like, okay, I have to overcome this selfishness selfishness of me to give to others.

SPEAKER_03 36:18

Yeah, you'll often see them as um caretakers, um, service like you said, Mother Teresa, very much service-oriented, so that's usually the type of work they would gravitate towards. Although that you could really any type can have any type of profession. You just typically would see them more like that.

SPEAKER_01 36:37

Yeah. And another example would be like the founder of the Red Cross. Uh, she was a um Is that Florence Nightingale? Yeah. Oh, okay. She's a two with a one. Yes. Isn't it funny? The stuff we're taught like in the back of our heads. It's there. It's there. So she is a um a one with a two where they're gonna be um very service to the one.

SPEAKER_03 36:59

Or a one or a one with a two?

SPEAKER_01 37:01

Sorry, two with a one, two with a one. Um, and the interesting thing about these guys also are they really want to be like significant in someone's life. They're gonna have like a little bit of a more intimate group, but they wanna be like, they want to be significant. Um, they wanna, it's not even about being seen, it's about knowing they're impacting someone's life. So even if it's as simple as they're the caretaker, they're gonna show up and be that caretaker and take it very seriously. Um, that they're impacting someone's life through caring for them. Um yes.

SPEAKER_03 37:33

So we had talked earlier about how like the twos can get really close and can be like the very popular person have big circles. So the the two with the one wing is gonna be like have a really close-knit circle. People that like they're your like ride or die best friend, and they'll do anything for you. Whereas I think the two with the three-wing would be like more of like a bigger group, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:57

And the two with the yeah, and the two with the one also are the most likely to abandon themselves for other people, so they have to be really conscious of like I have my own needs that need to be met, and they might even like writing down the needs you have that need to be met and being aware of them is gonna be big, and they're also when they're unhealthy, will be the most likely to be a martyr. Look at everything I've done. I have changed people's lives and I'm not appreciated. So they're gonna, but but the self-abandonment shows up a lot. I really feel like if you are two with a one, you one of your biggest growths can be to identify your needs and make sure they're fulfilled every day.

SPEAKER_03 38:36

That's gonna be a common theme with twos. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:39

But it's two and work on your needs, yes, but a two with a three is interesting because they're they're more the host and hostess, like you talked about. They are gonna be the people that show up at a party and make sure everyone's taken care of. So they're like, while you might see like a two with a one be more independent in the sense of like, I'm taking care of this one person or this one like pathway where they're showing up as like the main caretaker, with a three, they're looking at socially being the caretakers. So if you're around them, let's say you work with them, they're gonna make sure you're happy. They want to know you're happy that you're you're doing well. Um, and they're very outgoing. If they really, this group is gonna be where they show up, where they really want love.

SPEAKER_03 39:21

Yeah. They're they're the coworker that's like organizing like the happy hour gifts together.

SPEAKER_01 39:28

Yeah, they're also, I think this is the this is where you get that stereotype of the charming two comes in, is they're seeking out the two with a three wing. Because a two with a one wing can be a little more serious um and a little calmer energy. Why this two with a three is like we are gonna be, I'm gonna make sure you are entertained. That's that three coming in. I want you to like have a show when you come over. So not only do I want you to have you know good service, I want you to like be like, yeah, we're having a good time.

SPEAKER_03 39:54

Enjoy yourself, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:55

Yeah, and they also have more ambition. So you're gonna see these people more in the business world, I think, when they're gonna show up and be like, okay, um, I'm of service to others, but I have this bigger ambition where that three really three push, yeah. Push, yeah. Um, and they can be also more direct.

SPEAKER_03 40:11

For this, yes, they can definitely.

SPEAKER_01 40:13

Like Frank's more of a direct communicator than my sister.

SPEAKER_03 40:18

Yeah. For sure. Um, I couldn't think of a good example for this. Not even like a fictional one. Of a person? Yeah. Of a two with a three wing. Um, I mean people would be like, oh yeah, that's it's hard because I it's the people I know.

SPEAKER_01 40:37

I say my dad and my uh your dad probably and my dad and then uh my husband. So yeah, so I would say you probably know one. Yeah, yeah. They're the people that are throwing great parties, very helpful, but also they do have a little bit of an ego. Not a little bit, they can be very egotistical where they want they they like the self-importance when they're not as like self-intuned. We'll quickly go over the instincts because this also influences this. Is that going deeper? So the self-preservation instinct. Um well, there's three.

SPEAKER_03 41:07

Do you want to name them quick? Yes, it's the same as ones, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:10

So every everyone will have these instincts that influence them. It's self-preservation, social, and sexual instincts. And these are gonna each show up, and you're gonna see how they show up similarly and influence similarly with each number. So I don't think we have to spend as much time if you listen to past podcasts on it. But a self-preservation, um, they are people who are very in tune one-on-one taking care of people, but they abandon themselves a lot. Um, and they also they do like, for example, they're gonna want to entertain, but they might not be entertained themselves. They're gonna want to cook for you, but they might forget to cook for themselves. They might show up and like in postpartum and help clean your house, but your house might be abandoned and not cleaned. So you're gonna see this weird duality with these people where self-preservation in mini Inneagram shows up to help themselves and make sure they're taken care of while self-preserving twos actually abandon themselves more than any other instinct.

SPEAKER_03 42:07

Mm-hmm. And this this um variant has an issue with like entitlement.

SPEAKER_01 42:15

So their self self-sacrifice is a form of like entitlement, like look at like putting themselves above well, they're gonna want to be singled out and given better privileges because yeah, so yeah, so that entitlement. Like I've done all these things.

SPEAKER_03 42:30

So so for example, I deserve XYZ, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:35

Yeah, and it could be even be like if they come over and help clean your house postpartum, like that example. So in return down the road, their repayment might be if they get a special invite to something or are acknowledged in a really special way that other people might be left out so it can be more exclusive and they get that privilege because they want people to repay their sacrifice.

SPEAKER_03 42:54

Yes, and a lot of times they can um rely on like manipulation tactics or like making people feel guilty.

SPEAKER_01 43:01

Yeah. The yeah, the unhealthy side is they'll be like self-important and then they will have they are most likely to neglect themselves physically.

SPEAKER_03 43:11

So these are people getting to eat, mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 43:14

Or even overeating too. Overeating. So gluttony tends to be the sin of the twos, where because they're not in tune with themselves, they're going to be like not focused on nourishment, but not in tune if they're full or not, not in tune if they're satisfied and not. So you'll see overeating with this group a lot. You know, all twos in general.

SPEAKER_03 43:35

With some twos when they're in an unhealthy state, is that they can um rely on like outside substances. Like for my dad, for example, um smokes because he like knew my dad was a smoker, he didn't pick up till he was thirty five. Our dads were very similar. I think we talked about this before. I think they're like the same person, um, and he would

SPEAKER_01 44:00

Drink alcohol makes him very, very ill, but he would drink if my dad struggled with substance abuse on and off. Um yeah, it does show up. It's that it's that self-abandonment um and not able to. I'm glad Craig doesn't have any of that.

SPEAKER_03 44:16

Yeah, in some way, and they tend to pick vices. Yeah. Yeah. But sometimes they'll hide it. My dad is very sneaky. Oh, but your dad hide it?

SPEAKER_01 44:29

Um, not I I think so, yes. So, like a lot of people didn't know. Yeah, so okay, so I always say, like, because he was a social instinct, so everybody knew him, everybody loved him, and he has passed away. And if you've listened to some of our other podcasts, I've talked about this. He was not always the best at home, so you're not hiding it at home, but like to the public, there's people who still don't know that he had like he smoked, those struggles, yeah, yeah, or that he had gone, like he was public about like when he he went to rehab before and he was public about it. Um, interestingly enough, it made people love him even more. Like, I'm overcoming this, and people were like, Yes, and it was like probably the two's like favorite thing, but um it's it a lot of it was there's deceit in it and how people perceived it, so it was a manipulation in how people would perceive him, and so like sometimes patients, because we still have some of his old patients that come in, they'll share things, and I'll be like, Oh, that's like wildly not accurate of who my dad is, but it's I mean it's true to them, but like it's it just wasn't experience, yeah. But like in if you're really looking at more of an objective, like who this person was, like, no, that's like not who he was. Um, he was very altruistic and giving, but he was definitely like expected something in return, yes, or he would feel like he wasn't getting enough appreciation from like say our us as a family, like he would work, provide, but he was like, we were ungrateful to him because he didn't get the love he felt he deserved, felt he needed, yeah. Yeah, um, but then going into the social instincts, which both of our um parents were um is this is the person who's everyone's friend that we talked about. So this person is gonna have a pretty strict calendar where they are doing social events, they're showing up, they're hosting, they're having people over, they like being popular, and they find validity in the more people that know them. So the more popular they are, the more they're like, I am loved. So their social group matters to them the most.

SPEAKER_03 46:30

They have FOMO real bad. They don't want to be left out, even for like stupid stuff. Like I know my like my dad will be like, My mom will go, my mom is very independent, and if she wants to do something, she'll just do it. And my dad will be like, but I wanna be with you too.

SPEAKER_01 46:48

She's like, No, yeah, you're not gonna miss anything. It is interesting because your mom's an eight. Your mom and your dad are like a reflection of like myself and Frank.

SPEAKER_03 46:57

Um, yeah, but I don't they they don't they don't do like the self-not that my parents are really unhealthy, but I would say like they're their average types, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:05

They could be healthier versions. Um, I think maybe that generation doesn't work as hard on this, but um it's it's hard to interesting because like I have to because I'm very independent and I'll have to be like early in our relationship, Frank would be like, Well, this is important to me, and I'd be like, Really? And I'd be like, have to now be conscious that like, oh, like if I go run an errand is quality time for him, he is totally happy coming along. While like if he wants to run an error, I'm like, go run it, go do your thing, boo. Yeah, and like he actually like for him, part of feeling loved is like me showing up and like doing those things, and it was like a big lesson learned.

SPEAKER_03 47:39

I actually think twos and eights are a really good match for like the Enneagram. Um, not that they're unhealthy. I was gonna say, you do have to be very conscious of each type because like my dad will regularly say, like, my mom hurts his feelings.

SPEAKER_01 47:55

Yes, we had to work through that because like my bluntness would be hurtful to Frank initially. He's fine with it now because he's like, I understand that you're not coming from a spot of hurtful, it's just so forward. While twos will make sure, like, does my voice sound right when I'm talking to someone? Am I saying the right words to make them feel comfortable? Yes, and while I'm just like, this is how it is. Um, he's actually a lot blunter with me now, though. So it's like we've rubbed off much softer now. Yeah, yeah. So we've like rubbed off. The most interesting thing, I think, though, about the social instinct twos is that they love to be in a position of giving advice. So you might see this come out in like the sense of like a spiritual advisor. A they're gonna be like being even in the field that um you know we're in a counselor, um, yeah, I feel like youth group leader, anything where they can be like, even like financial advisors, like even if they're not like certified for any of this kind of stuff or qualified, they want to be in a position of like I am your advisor and I'm gonna help guide you because that's gonna be my role now. Um, and so that I find really interesting because I read that, I was like, oh my god, yeah, I know every two with this like social instinct is like this. They're all in this position where like, let me help advise, and that's my way of service to like my whole community, is I would be that person.

SPEAKER_03 49:19

And then the last one is the sexual instinct of the two, and these people just really want intimacy, and it doesn't have to be physical, although it can be, but it can like emotional as well, like they really, really want to be close to people.

SPEAKER_01 49:33

Yeah, like most sexual instincts, this is gonna be a smaller inner circle. Um, and they're gonna this is gonna show up more one-on-one uh relationships, and there's also the more like seduction with things, and that can even be like solving problems to bring people in, and maybe more manipulation will be seen in this group, um, and also some more jealousy. Like, I'm showing you all this love, I am expecting this all back in return. Um, and so this is when you talked about though, or like when we talked about the like hobbies and abandoning umeself, this is also the most likely type to be like, Oh, you're interested in this, me too. You want to go, you know, if you love horses, I love horses now. If you love um going to the gym, I also love going to the gym.

SPEAKER_03 50:20

And so these people I feel like can easily they're very good at seeing what other people like or love, and like they can make you fall in love with them, I think, pretty easily. Now, yeah, if it's not like genuine or like good, it would never be like super deep. But initially you'd be like, wow, this person's wonderful, they're so charismatic.

SPEAKER_01 50:44

Yeah, and twos can make twos of all of this, they can make anyone love them, but yeah, the instinct like they'll make you actually fall in love with them. But let's use this now. So the whole point of the enagrams is how do we become better versions of ourselves, right? And so for twos, I think like for all, well, actually, for all the enagrams, if you start to notice a pattern in your life, you can start to disrupt that pattern to become a better version of you. So that's what when we look at these different traits, it's not really about um, do I am I of service to others or not? It's do I have a pattern of being of service to people and then feeling abandoned or abandoning myself? And so you will see a cycle of this show up on every aspect as a child, you're see it, you're gonna see it in your you know, middle school, you're gonna see it in high school, you're gonna see it as a young adult. And and it can look different in each phase of life, but we want to start looking at these patterns. And so when you're a two, the pattern you want to look for is are you being very generous, but with the expectations of something in return? And so when you can start to recognize yourself or somebody who can like sometimes an unhealthy two might look for someone's insecurities and use them as a way to manipulate them to be closer, and when you can start to say, Oh, I do that, and identify when and how you do it, and that's when you can start to make these changes so you can develop new patterns. And two's best self is going to be where they can freely love who they want to love without expecting anything in return. And the best part of a healthy two, and what you're really ultimately looking for, is that you are the person who can give yourself the love you're craving. So self-love and actually more time on yourself, even though pride and ego seems to be like an issue for twos. The more twos can be like, what do I like? What am I interested in? What are my passions in life? You know, and then the acceptance of I'm loved just how I am. Like I don't have to perform for anyone, I don't have to be of service, I can just be myself and people will still love me. And when you can come to that conclusion, you have reached like the pinnacle health of a two. Yeah, so that's your goal. That is the goal. That's your goal. Because a lot of twos, I think the biggest thing that they question, like when they're they're going through this and like they're where they're gonna hit like these like marks of like, I don't know, like um stress while they're working on their personal development, is that question, the unspoken question will be Am I still gonna be loved even if I'm not generous and giving? And the answer is yes.

SPEAKER_03 53:23

Yeah, it's so much easier said than done. And I would I would say like as a reminder, it's so easy to list like, oh yeah, this is what you're going for. I would say the majority of the population is walking around as an average or maybe like average unhealthy type. It is hard to get to like the true like healthy level, and even if you get there, you're gonna dip down into average, you know what I mean? It's not you're gonna not gonna be up here a hundred percent of the time.

SPEAKER_01 53:52

Yeah, yeah. And and you're gonna know certain stressors you might move, but it's like always be aware of those patterns so you can move to the highest version. Um, because like for twos, I mean they're just like wonderful people, but like with anything, they just need to get out of their own way and uh and recognize, like you can also start like asking yourself questions like, am I giving this money because I want people to see me giving this money to a charity, or do I really love this cause and it's close to my heart?

SPEAKER_03 54:24

That's a warning sign.

SPEAKER_01 54:27

Or even recognizing how you're showing up for yourself. If you're like, wow, I have binged eat like all my meals, I will not eat and then I'll just eat a ton, like a whole day's worth at night, or I will only eat sweets and no healthy food. Um, those are like also physical ways to start identifying like self-abandonment because when you're like going in this up and down, which twos tend to do, of like, okay, I'm um I'm doing, you know, I'm not gonna eat at all because I'm so busy, and then they come home and they're like, oh my god, privately, I've got to like gorge myself because I'm, you know, have these all these other feelings I'm not because self-abandonment you're not dealing with, and so they use food as a big one or other substances if you're uh abusing drugs, things like those. Um, sometimes average twos can also be doing these things because of the twos doing self-abandonment. When you can start to recognize that and take that in control too, I think it can help with that growth because to heal something like that, you have to become self-aware and love yourself more.

SPEAKER_03 55:28

For sure. Do you think Princess Diana was a two?

SPEAKER_01 55:31

Yeah, I would say so. I'd say she's probably a two with a one.

SPEAKER_03 55:35

Yeah, she was great, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:37

She was of service to people for sure. And you can see that, like, especially like as she moved post-divorce or whatever, and like she came to a lot of charities and she showed up a lot, actually, even in the middle of all of it. Oh yeah, I feel like she had such a complicated life.

SPEAKER_03 55:56

Yeah, her husband sucked.

SPEAKER_01 55:58

Speak ill of the crown, my goodness. We're not British. Um, she I yeah, I definitely think she was one. Um, the other thing is for twos. Now, this is like gonna be like a hard thing for your growth, is gonna be boundaries. Two's have no boundaries, they will merge into your life. They are like, they are if they were to be an element, they would be water. Water. I was gonna say they're gonna water they're just gonna like flow into whatever container you're holding. Or maybe if they're an animal, they're a cat. Um they're Frank's is Frank's sign a water sign? He's water holder, he's air.

unknown 56:36

Oh, he's air.

SPEAKER_01 56:38

Yeah, he's an Aquarius. My dad's a water sign. My dad was a water sign too. Oh my gosh. They really are. What month was your dad born in? February. February 10th. No, he's he's an Aquarius then. They're not water, they're air. Oh. Okay, then he's air. Yeah, they're water holders. I know, which is weird. I know, it's super weird. Um, no, my dad was born in um July, so cancer. They're water. My sister's a cancer too. She's June. But your mom is a cancer as well. Yeah, I had a lot of water signs, and then my brother and I are fire, so our house is weird. Steamy. Very steamy. Yes. Yes. Waters, waters get really stressed by fire. Uh I think I think my brother and I can really stress out the rest of the family. For sure. Yeah. For sure. Um, okay, so the other thing with twos, just to get back to them, um, they can be very judgmental as well. Not the same as ones, but more in the sense of like they're judging how people respond to the service they're giving. So twos are really interesting because it's like a one's just gonna be judgmental if you're like morally fitting into what they think is right or wrong. Well, like a two is going to be judgmental in the sense is is your response proper to the love I'm giving you?

SPEAKER_03 57:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:57

And I found that really fast.

SPEAKER_03 57:58

Anyone's supposed to know.

SPEAKER_01 58:00

Yeah, they won't. They won't. Um setting them up for failure. Yes. But going back to the boundaries, um, so twos to move it to your healthier side, you cannot, one, overstep other people's boundaries. Other people's boundaries are not mean to you or cruel, they're just a way, they're something to be respected for sure. They just are, and so that's okay. Um, and the second thing is as a two, you need to set boundaries. You need to know when you're letting other people into your life, like what you're okay with. Um, and I think twos because they feel like they have to be of service to others, struggle with the boundaries because they don't want to put someone out or feel like they're not serving someone. But like if you, especially as like a female, because you get the double whammy of society being like you have to do all the two traits. So if you are a two and you are cleaning for your family, you're doing all the stuff, um, caring for every single person, it is okay to say, Hey, the next hour is my hour, and everyone leave me alone. You're allowed to put that boundary up, you're allowed to have times that you go to the gym, like, hey, this is my time to go do my hobby. Those boundaries are literally going to save you and help you with self-respect because lack of boundaries is lack of self-respect. So you have to, as a two, put your own boundaries up.

SPEAKER_03 59:14

And that'll help you in your relationships as well, like friendships, person, like professional, um, like all of those.

SPEAKER_01 59:22

Yeah. And um, we did talk about, you know, the twos. I don't think we talked about twos going to like a four versus a no, we didn't talk about it. Oh my gosh. Well, let's do that quickly as we round everything else up.

SPEAKER_03 59:33

When twos are in an unhealthy state, like we talked about before, there's there's ways of integration and disintegration on the Enneagram diagram. So twos, when they're unhealthy, are going to look similar to an eight. So a little more bombastic or strong.

SPEAKER_01 59:54

I think twos hold all it and then explode.

SPEAKER_03 59:56

Yeah, like a long fuse, big boom kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 59:59

Yes, they're gonna be more blunt, they're gonna be more direct, and they're gonna be like more manipulative in the sense of like my needs aren't being met. Yeah. And so they're gonna also go into like they can be like controlling and domineering when they're unhealthy, because it's like they gave they gave, and now they're like, Well, I'm taking control of the situation because you didn't show up the how you're supposed to. And so you're going to now see me and know what my needs are, um, because you obviously aren't capable of doing it yourself, kind of thing. Um, and they also do not do well with crisis without support, like twos need support. So if they're feeling like abandonment um or like abuse, even as like a child, you're gonna see them actually go into a fearful state, which you do see more explosions and aggression, and they can look really mean at this point, and this is like a really bad side. Um, but they, you know, they're gonna be one fully delusional, like the worst side of a two, if you go to the when you're at your absolute worst, um you're gonna see things like they're gonna lie to themselves a lot. So they do everything and they're not at fault of anything, but everybody else is the problem. They're gonna be very entitled. Like, I am owed this, I deserve this. Um, they're also gonna be the manipulation and coercion of other people to do what they want. Um, and then they might go in and out of like giving extreme love and then taking it all away. So they can be very intense, um, and their aggression can be very uncomfortable. Um, because like like I said in the beginning, like twos are not as passive as everyone sometimes makes them out to be. I think they come across like they are just like easygoing, fun, because they they want to be popular with everyone, but like twos, if they are pushed into a corner and not doing well and not feeling like they're getting appreciated and loved, they can go to a very dark spot and they can be very big, loud, blunt personalities that are very uncomfy for most people around them.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:06

Yeah, but on the flip side, and in health in a healthy integration, twos are gonna look um similar to like fours. They're gonna have a really creative energy.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:15

Um you know what I think welcoming. Yeah, you know what I like most about this is fours are independent. And a two, when they're trying to be so helpful and inserting themselves in someone's life, it goes back to the boundaries. The healthiest version of them is like that the independence of a four and that their own when talking about like creativity, it's that acknowledgement of their own gifts and what they really like and don't like in this world.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:41

Yeah, so that's hard, it's hard to get there, but it's definitely um and two is like you'll be able to see it. Like Frank is definitely, I think, a creative person, and I see him as being independent now.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:56

I think he's very independent now, but I think it's also like we did a lot of work on that because like part of our relationship was like we talked about he will like merge into my life, but now we don't really have the issue now because we've done a lot of integram work and talked about it, but like I'll even ask him questions like, is this something you want? Or is it because you think I want it? And even when we're making decisions like where to go for dinner, something simple, he will be like, one of his big things he'll be like is uh he'll give me like five or six options, and I'm like, I am so overwhelmed with options, and he's like trying to guess what I want for dinner and not really giving me what he wants. And so it's like even once we make a decision, he'll be like, let's say we're like, oh, we're gonna go to this place for sushi, and like we can be getting ready to walk out of the house, and he'll be like, Okay, do you want to go to the steakhouse though? Because he's still unsure if I'm happy. And I'm like, once we make a decision, I'm happy, like we can move forward. But like it's that constant need of like, yes, I'm going to be like showing up for this person and like asking these questions. So, like, when they get healthier and they're more like independent, which Frank is like there and even moving closer to, it's like then they're like, Well, I would really like sushi tonight, and there's no fear that they're gonna like not be loved if I don't respond and be like, I don't want that either, you know what I mean? It's like okay, my dad would never pick a restaurant, he'd be like, You guys pick. It's too much, it's too much. Yeah, and you might see this in nines too, but the motivation behind it's different. See, if a two is struggling making a decision, it's because they're thinking about what the right decision is for other people's happiness and their perception versus like a nine might not. We'll get to this, but like they're really indecisive, and I think it's because they just don't know. They're just like, I don't even have a clue um what the right answer or not right answer, but like what I would want. So just like more disassociated. Um, but twos, when they are like really healthy, they get to this point of where they can create their lives, can look really big, and they actually can look like three sometimes two, where they they're very independent, they have like um a lot of they can have more ambition because it might be after something they want. And I think they're very peaceful people at that point when they're like in that four range because they aren't trying to please every single person and make sure everybody's around them, they're not hypervigilant, they're just like, I'm trusting that everybody loves me and I already know I love everybody.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:16

Yeah, and fours tend to be more like introspective people, um, like thinking about themselves, and that's what we want fours to do. We want you to recognize your needs and think about yourself and nurture yourself. Yeah, so pulling that from the four is a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:31

And fours can be go a little extreme with it, but yeah, but fours are also very body in tune and a two, a healthy two because of that self abandonment and the unhealthy side. A healthy two that goes to that four will also be aware of their body and what their body's needs are. So they're not gonna be abandoning themselves, they're not gonna be overeating, they're not gonna be um neglecting their own hygiene and all of that. They're going to be caring for themselves and recognizing that's. Also, one of the most important things you can do. Um, yeah, and then they're also gonna have, like we talked about that self-expression. So they're gonna be like, This is the music I love, and then they'll bring back to people they love and share it and have the trust that they're gonna be accepted for what they like, they'll share their hobbies, their interests, their creative work, they're willing to be open about that and not hide it as much when they're a healthier four. And so it gives them that sense of like independence, you'll see them look very independent. Um, although they're still very altruistic. It's just, I think when they're there and when you start to express your own creativity and be in tune with your own body, I think that's when authentic love finds you. So with the two, you know, is this the question also is is this love real if there's if you're expecting something in return? And so to really have that deeper connection and more authentic connection with people, I think you need to be more in tune with your own body, your own interests, your own selves, and in return, you actually get the deepest love you could get in life.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:57

I do think it that's kind of like a universal truth. I think maybe it's harder for twos, but to be like to really know yourself and be kind of the best person. But what's interesting is find the best love.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:09

Yeah, but what's interesting is like for some people they need to be less inward and more outward. So like maybe like a five needs to be less about their own mind and thoughts and more about other people, while a two, yeah. So he his work is actually more outward because he might be two in his own world, and while a two on the other side of it are so outward that their health goes inward, and so it's that dis that connection of is do you need to connect more outward or inward to become the most authentic version of you? And so for two or the mode that's different, yeah. So because twos have such self-abandonment in the service to others, the greatest thing they can do, and it's always gonna be something I think it's all of it's gonna be like counterintuitive. The greatest thing that a two could do is give themselves radical self-love and the permission to have your own interests and likes and opinions, and as a result, you're gonna just see like this whole shift of like people showing up exactly how you actually want, you're gonna get exactly what you're craving, is the ultimate thing of that love, versus like when you're constantly putting it out on other people, you're always gonna be questioning is this love real? Because it's transactional, and then you're actually abandoning yourself, so you're getting the least amount of love.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:32

Your cup's empty.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:34

Yeah, so but twos are wonderful. I love twos in this world. I think they are they are the people giving back and making us all uh taking care of us all ultimately. Great partners, honestly, great parents when they're healthy. When they're a healthy two parent can make a child feel so seen. Yes. Did you feel that with your dad?

SPEAKER_03 1:08:56

Oh yeah. I always felt so so loved by him.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:00

So yeah, yeah, it's great. Um, you know what we're excited for is next week we're doing your integram. I know. Crazy. I'm I'm really curious like how it's gonna go when we do like our own enagrams on um just like the relation and the conversation around it because it's very different when it's like you're talking about yourself.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:22

I guess so. I feel like I can point out more like the unhealthy, like, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:27

Probably the more the nuances, yeah. The more you have these people, you're gonna be like, Oh, I get them. So get ready. Yeah. All you threes out there. There's a lot. America, if America was to have an Instagram, it would be a three. Totally. So they're very like beloved, but threes have their stuff too. Oh, yeah. Doesn't mean you're without your struggles. Of course not. Well, thank you guys all for joining us at the table. If you are interested in learning more or taking the test, you can head on over to innatewomen.com where you can click the pop up and take your test. It comes right to us and then we can dive deeper together.