Podcasting in Academia with Carla DeMarco

Carla DeMarco has had a 30+ year career at the University of Toronto, working in a variety of roles in communications at OISE, the U of T Magazine, Advancement and Public Affairs, as well as at U of T Mississauga in the Offices of the Vice-Principal, Research, and the Vice-Principal, Academic and Dean. 

In 2016, Carla conceived, created, and launched the podcast VIEW to the U: an eye on the UTM academic community. Over an eight-year period, Carla hosted, produced, and posted over 60 tracks that have accumulated over 31,000 listens. 

In addition, Carla was selected to present on podcasting at the Society of Research Administrators International (SRAI) Annual Meeting in San Francisco in 2019. This led to her applying and being accepted (one of only eight recipients selected) for SRAI’s prestigious Author Fellowship in 2020, and, with the support of this program, Carla published “Hear Here! The Case for Podcasting in Research” in the Journal of Research Administration (April 2022).

Carla also helped launch a second podcast in 2021: SRAI’s Shop Talk. Initially she chaired SRAI’s podcast committee to conceive and spearhead this podcast, and was asked to serve as its creator, host, and producer for the first two seasons, interviewing SRAI-connected people across several countries and continents. Carla was subsequently recognized with SRAI’s Technology Innovation and Application Award in 2022. 

Carla is currently seconded for a two-year term as the inaugural Communications Manager in the Office of the Vice-Provost, Students at the University of Toronto.

Transcript

Ellie: Welcome to our podcast. My name's Ellie and I'm from the AARE Technology and Learning Special Interest Group. Welcome Carla. Thank you for joining our little podcast.

Carla: And thank you so much for having me and inviting me to participate. So my name is Carla DeMarco. And I am the communications manager at the University of Toronto. And currently I work in the office of the vice provost to students, at the U of T Saint George campus. So we've got three campuses. And I'm on a secondment because normally I'm at the U of T Mississauga, which is one of our satellite campuses on the, West End of Toronto.

Ellie: Thank you. And so let's jump straight in. So people might not know, but you have lots of experience with podcasting. So it's really exciting to have you on here today to learn more about your experience. So tell us about your experience with podcasts.

Carla: Happy to chat about podcasts any time. I told you I could go off on tangents, but how I really got started I was a research grants manager, working with our faculty members on their grants and reviewing grants. But I also wore hat of communications officer, and so the two sort of fed into each other. I would be working on grants, and I would get to know the researchers on our campus and what kind of work they were doing. But then when grant season sort of quieted down a little bit, I would write about their research. And I would often, you know, bring my phone with me. Or at the time, I probably I didn't have a phone at the time when I started working there, I just had a recording device, but I would bring it with me to record, our chat so that I could transcribe it and have good quotes and all that.

About 2013, I want to say I got big into podcasts because I started to listen to 'This American Life'. I just really enjoyed long form storytelling. I was always big into listening to radio prior to that. But podcasts I kind of liked because it's like, you know, you could stream it, you could listen to it, you could pause it, listen to it later. Especially with some of these episodes that come up that are like over an hour long. Sometimes there's podcasts out there that are like three hours long. Because I started to get really into that format and I would interview these faculty members, I would come back and chat with my boss about this. And he is also a big podcast enthusiast. And I would always say, like, I would love to start a podcast here. Like, there's so many insightful things that people say in the span of two minutes that, if I were to write about their work, I can't fit all of that into a 500 or 800 word profile.

So, the idea started percolating, and then I started calling around, like, cold calling it. At least one person at U of T was doing a podcast at that time. But he had a background in radio, but he said, you know what? Because I just, I wanted to know, you know, what equipment he used and like, what I would need to start it. And I started doing some online research. There was a good article by I think it was Buzzsprout, but it was, you know, it's five things you need to know if you're going to start a podcast. And so I just I put together a pitch to, you know, provide to my boss and the VP of research at the time, the vice principal research. And I just said, I want to do a research based podcast, but really it's not about my research, it's about our research community. Even though it was a focus on research. So it was going to be asking people about what kinds of research they do. I wanted to have themes for each year. So the first year was going to be UTM Mississauga at 50 because we were celebrating our 50th anniversary. And so it was just like, I wanted to talk to researchers who'd been on campus, for a while to talk about what kinds of changes have you seen, how has your research changed over time? So I felt like just having these themes kind of helped me to direct my questions a little bit. The second season was all about women in academia. And then the third season was about like global impact. So it was like how our researchers had a global impact. I feel like having these sort of themes, just guided me in the kinds of questions that I wanted to ask. So we weren't just always asking the exact same questions. But I just felt like it was it would be providing almost like an oral history. So, like, some of these researchers are on campus, and they won't be on, like, you know. One of the first people I interviewed, he has since retired. So I just felt it's going to be sort of this record.


Ellie: It's amazing. 

Carla: So, yeah. So that was, you know, the idea behind it. And so then, you know, because I put together this pitch, I kind of sourced out everything. It's like I knew where to get the equipment. I knew how much it was going to cost at the time when I put together the whole thing, I think it was $700 for like a zoom H4 and recorder. I got two microphones, two microphone stands, because one of the eight pieces of advice I got from the person who was doing podcasting at U of T at the Faculty of Arts and Science. He said, you know, you don't want people sitting there holding a mic and like, now there's all sorts of technology that mics have come a long way, I think. But he said, you know, you can just get a stand to put on their desk. They'll be nice and stable. And, and then I just had the audacity, like the software to do all of the editing. So that's kind of how it started. And, and my boss was just like, "I trust you." And the person I immediately reported to, he said, "You know what? If you fail, you will fail spectacularly." So I just felt like I have, you know, the backing. And also, I will fully admit, my spouse is a real audiophile, he didn't do podcasting, but, he does a lot of audio because he was a musician for many years and so he contributed music. So he helped me edit the yeah, the first three episodes. But after that, I kind of, I felt like I knew enough to spread my wings and fly and go forward. But also, I will say, there are YouTube videos for everything. So anytime I came across something about noise reduction or what do I do about this, you can pretty much troubleshoot like almost anything that you come across. So I just felt like I've got all the resources that I need. And I will say some episodes sound better than others. Depending on how much time I had to edit. But the biggest learning curve was the editing. But that is what I would spend the most of my time on.

Ellie: And you already touched on some points of, you know, the benefits of actually doing a podcast in that environment other than the obvious ones of sharing people's work. But, you know, providing a narrative and giving people that opportunity to share some of their story and what they have contributed. So it's kept for people who come after really.

Carla: Yeah. And then they use like it was used in ways that I hadn't anticipated. Like I will say, one of the hard things for me was promoting it. Because at the time when I started to, there weren't really any other podcasts and I think that people didn't really, really know sometimes how to market it. So I just felt like I did a lot of the promotion myself. I did get a little bit of help from our communications team, but one of the ways that it was used was, there was I think it used to be called Hot Link. But it was, sort of a newsletter that our recruitment office would put out and they'd say, why UTM. So they would send it out to prospective students who had been offered admission. But it's like, here are some of the people you might be taking classes with, but they used it for the recruitment stuff. One of the professors that I, interviewed early on, he used it in one of his classes. He's a geographer. And so it's like when I started it, I never thought anyone would be using it in a classroom setting, but he did, and I would see the numbers kind of shoot up when, he would give that assignment to the students. So yeah.

Ellie: That sounds really awesome. You’re obviously very passionate about podcasting. And so what is it in it for you? Like why do you love it so much?

Carla: Well, I when I worked in the research office, I just really loved working with our research community. I just feel like in having these conversations with people, you got to know so much about them, you know, even things that they disclose that were personal. But of course, like, I would never include that in the podcast, but I think, you know, they open themselves up. And so it sort of, enabled me to really build a great relationship with the research community.
It built up my confidence because I didn't know anything about, producing a podcast. I started to give presentations on podcasting, and then I did an author fellowship. I always called my presentation, when I give it ‘Adventures in Podcasting’, because I just feel like it enabled me to really learn things that I didn't know before, primarily the technological part of it. But, just to be able to have that confidence to go out and like, write an article and talk to people and, like, present on this whole platform. I think all of that has been really rewarding for me.

Ellie: And so, you did it at a time where it wasn't everywhere, like now people talk about podcasts quite, quite a lot, even radio and my favorite radio show, they also have a podcast and, so you can listen, like you said, at any point in time. So from all of your experience and, and what you see now, and I know you're working on potentially new podcasts as well. What would you say to someone who's considering using a podcast or starting a podcast?

Carla: I have lots to say about this, but it's just interesting because it did come up at a conference that I went to and we were talking about people, more and more people incorporating podcasts into their either research or their academic life. You know, because a lot of people are using it for pedagogical reasons now, incorporating it into the classroom. And someone at this conference, raised the question, "aren't we getting overly saturated with podcasts because everybody and their brother has a podcast?" And the person on the panel and I thought this was perfect. But he said, "well, you could look at it that way." But he said, "would you ever say the world has too many books?" And I thought, this is so true, because again, it's just another way of like disseminating knowledge and engaging with an audience. It's just giving people another way to engage with people and to reach people. 

One tip that I always give whenever I do a presentation on podcasting if you want to start a podcast, listen to podcasts. Because, I think that there's a lot of value to be gained from listening. Listen to podcasts and it gives you a better sense of what kind of podcast I want to do. People are interested in more sort of academic podcasts. There's so many out there. There's one called ‘Gastropod’, there's one called ‘The Next Big Idea’. A lot of these are cited in my paper. Some of them are interview based, some of them aren't. Some of them have a little kind of, vignettes where they'll talk to someone here, incorporate a researcher, they'll read something. So it's just like there are a lot of interesting podcasts out there that are doing, some neat things where it's not just interview based. And one of the ones I always cite as an amazing example of a podcast, because as we mentioned, you mentioned this sort of before we started recording. But, you know, short podcasts are great because it's like you just want to have these short hits of information and there's this podcast, out of the US called ‘The Memory Palace.’ It's part of, I think, the Radiotopia group of podcasts, which Roman Mars from ‘99% invisible’ is a part of. But this podcast has been running for quite a few years now, and it's done by, a guy by the name of Nate Dime who actually sounds a lot like Roman Mars. And if I'm mentioning, like, Roman Mars is just he's a real podcast guru, so I don't want to, alienate anyone by mentioning names. But Roman Mars kind of like a lot of people listen to 99% Invisible, but Memory Palace is short. Usually the episodes are only 10 to 12 minutes. I think he works on some sort of, maybe an archivist, in a museum, or he's got some connection to that world. But he will just take a little, you know, piece of history. And he writes a script and he put some music to it. So it's just essentially him reading his script, but he makes it interesting to kind of do a deep dive into some interesting artifact. Or like, who was the model behind that statue in New York, like from the 1920s? And he'll kind of create this whole narrative and just it's just him talking.

It's low hanging fruit because it's just essentially you writing. And especially as academics, you're writing all the time. And so, you could write a short kind of pithy and it makes it more interesting.

And I've always said, you know, podcasting is is great in that, you know, we all love reading, like we're all readers. If you work at a university. Sometimes you don't want to necessarily want your eyes to get a break. You don't want to have to stop. This gives you an opportunity to listen to something interesting,

So there's lots of things that you can do if you want to start a podcast. And the other bit of advice I always give is just if you are working in an academic environment have your students, your grad students, like some of them are naturally good communicators. And it's good, practice for them to help, they can help to see from start to end how you put together a show. They can probably help with some of the tech things. There's actually a podcast that started around the same time that mine did, it's totally run by students and it's called Raw Talk. But, every year, they probably get a new crop of students that will come in and help, with this podcast. And so I think that that's also interesting because you get different hosts, you get different people asking different questions. They get different ideas, and it's totally student run. So I think, you know, incorporating your students is like a win-win because it's good for them and it's good for you because it just gives you another way to disseminate your findings.

Ellie: That sounds amazing. Speaking of keeping it to a shorter time frame, I can see how you we could have this conversation for days from the sounds of it. And I really appreciate you sharing all of your experience and, and nuggets of wisdom with our listeners. And obviously, we will put in your link to your paper. I'm sure everyone can just get in touch and get a bit more if they want to. So yeah, thank you so much, Carla. Thanks for coming on. Was really pleasure talking to you about your passion.

Carla: Thank you so much.