The Minimalist Educator Podcast
A podcast about paring down to focus on the purpose and priorities in our roles.
The Minimalist Educator Podcast
Episode 094: Rethink Inputs, Prioritize Impact, Honor Agency with Sharyn Skrtic
What happens when a school stops juggling initiatives and starts pursuing impact with clarity and intent? We chat with international accreditation leader Sharyn Skrtic to unpack a simple but transformative shift: define the learner you want to grow, agree on shared pedagogy, and let student voice shape both the journey and the evidence of success.
Across roles in IB schools from Germany to Japan and now supporting NEASC’s global community, Sharyn has seen what works. She explains why coherence is the antidote to burnout, how a shared understanding beats a pretty definition, and where schools can start when agency feels daunting. From learners co-constructing curriculum to students leading teacher PD, we explore how voice, choice, and autonomy become everyday practice rather than slogans on a wall.
We also dive into multiple pathways for upper grades and the conversations required to make them legitimate in the eyes of universities and families. Sharon breaks down the learning principles, the switch from inputs to impact, and a practical start-stop-continue protocol that frees teacher capacity. We challenge mission statements to show up in the timetable and the building, so spaces and schedules actually enable collaboration, creation, and authentic assessment.
If you’re seeking a lighter, clearer way to teach and lead, one that keeps teachers engaged and centers student growth, this conversation offers concrete steps and hopeful examples. Subscribe, share with a colleague who craves less clutter and more purpose, and leave a review with one practice you’re ready to stop so you can make space for impact.
This episode is sponsored by Plan Z Education Services.
Find our book The Minimalist Teacher and Your School Leadership Edit: A Minimalist Approach to Rethinking Your School's Ecosystem at the links!
Follow on Instagram @PlanZEducation and @minimalist_ed_podcast.
The Minimalist Educator Podcast is a Plan Z Education Services adventure.
Welcome to the Minimalist Educator podcast, where the focus is on a less is more approach to education. Join your hosts, Christine Arnold and Tammy Musiowski, authors of The Minimalist Teacher and your school leadership edit, a minimalist approach to rethinking your school ecosystem, each week as they explore practical ways to simplify your work, sharpen your focus, and amplify what matters most so you can teach and lead with greater clarity, purpose, and joy.
SPEAKER_02:On this week's episode, we are joined by Sharon Skirtik to talk about frameworks for high-quality learning environments. Her peer-down pointer is to ensure that you are asking questions. Sharon Skirtik is an international accreditation leader at the New England Association of Schools and Colleges. In this role, her focus is on supporting the school's unique context and providing ongoing guidance throughout the accreditation process. She has held various teaching and senior leadership positions at IB international schools in Germany, Hong Kong, Singapore, Finland, and Japan, including PYP coordinator, principal, and head of learning. Sharon is an IBIN member, serving as a workshop leader for both online and face-to-face workshops, as well as supporting schools as program and evaluation leader. She also supports the PYP community as a moderator on the IB Exchange. Hello and welcome to this week's episode of the Minimalist Educator Podcast. We are very excited this week to be joined by a former colleague of ours, Sharon Skurtik. Welcome to the podcast, Sharon. Thank you so much for having me. So we all worked together many moons ago now back in Singapore. Sharon was our PYP coordinator and our deputy principal. Did you move into the principalship as well there? Yeah, just trying to remember.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I did. Yeah, my last year there. My just my last year.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Awesome. Would you mind starting by telling our listeners a little bit about your your career in education?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, definitely. It's started actually, this was the 25th, 25 years this year was within in education. And I actually started primary is where my heart is. So I'm a primary teacher at heart and started teaching in the States in my old grade school where I went to. So that's where I began my teaching career. But after five years, something drew me over the waters and overseas. So ended up in Düsseldorf, Germany, where I was first introduced to everything international schools, the IB programs, and that was a lot of firsts for me. But from there, definitely have had different teaching and leadership positions across the continents. Moved to Hong Kong from there, spent some time with you two wonderful people in Singapore. Actually was in Helsinki, Finland, where I was also PYP coordinator and head of primary. And then went on to Kyoto, Japan, where also still stayed with PYP, but also was head of teaching and learning because they were building their MYP and then their DP programs. So yeah, definitely had many different positions in international schools, most of which were also with IB, schools that offer the IB programs.
SPEAKER_01:And you're currently in The Hague. I am. Yeah. Not at this moment, but that's where you live.
SPEAKER_00:That's right. That's right.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And your travels or like living travels, you know, your your job has taken you into some real to some really interesting places. And we're always curious about trends. What kind of things like you've been in similar roles but very different cultural places. But what kind of trends have you noticed from your very beginnings as a teacher through your roles? And that might include this role now, but you know, maybe the more school-based roles. But we're interested to hear about that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean it's it is interesting. I have been in, I I think, yeah, very different contexts, and which is a big part of my role currently, because every school, right? Every school has their unique culture, their unique context. And I think something that's always stuck with me wherever I've been with any school or whatever my role was was always important that what we were doing was what was best for our learners. I think that as a as a big trend is something that should never leave. I hope it's never not a trend and that what we're doing with our schools, you know, what what we're doing actually involves our learners. And I'm seeing, I see more and more of that with the schools that I continue to visit, is that, you know, what we're doing has to be very purposeful for our learners. And in order to know if we're being purposeful, we need to hear from our learners. So I think, you know, we can easily say student agency or autonomy is important, but I think I do see it. I see it in a lot of the schools that I attend, how their voice matters, and not, you know, and you can take that as a layered approach. We we see students being involved in co-constructing the curriculum, right? But we also see students involved in part of the decision making of what goes on in their own learning environments. And we see learners, you know, also having opportunities to be the teachers. We had had this great podcast webinar that we we do with NEOSC, and we had one of our schools share how their learners led the professional uh learning day for the teachers. It was amazing to listen to. So, you know, something that's I think has been a trend, I think for me, but I also see it more and more is making sure that that our learners' voice is valued and that there's space for it. Another thing that, you know, I think a lot of schools are thinking about now. We work with NIASC, we work with, you know, K to 12 schools. And I would say a lot of momentum I'm seeing now is around schools thinking about different pathways for their learners as they get up into nine, 10, the upper grades up and through high school ages. What are different pathways that students might have the opportunity to take? And not that any pathway would be less than a differ than another one, but what are possible pathways where students could be exploring more things that might be of interest to them in terms of where they want to go in the future, how they might be able to demonstrate or show growth in terms of competencies and just different than what maybe the both of you and I probably find when we think back to our high school, which was very much a certain path that everyone took. And then this is what it is, and this is what you do. So I'm seeing a lot of that, and that involves a lot of conversations with schools, and hopefully it will increase to have conversations with universities as well.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that's really exciting to hear that that schools are going in that sort of direction. I know because I'm in a PYP school myself, so often when we jump onto the PYP webinars that are offered, there's Sharon, which is lovely. I get to see you all the time, it feels like. And so you do something similar for NIASC as well. How do you how do you know what topics to do these webinars on? Is it is it led by these trends that you're seeing, or is it, you know, requests that are out there? Like how do you make those choices about what to offer?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's true. I mean, I think, yeah, for the for the PYP ones, you know, we do. We we we hear what's going on with schools, and we have a lot of schools asking and telling us this is you know what we'd like to see more examples of. And and I think with NIOSC as well, you know, our schools, you know, we're a community of schools. We NIOSC has, we actually have three commissions. So we have the two commissions that are in the states. So there's the commission on public schools in the New England states, and then the commission on independent schools. And then, of course, I work with the commission of international schools. And we have schools in 90 countries. And and, you know, as I said at the beginning, they're all unique and and different and have so much to share with everyone else. So I think with our webinars that we do for our international community of schools, we do try and think about, first of all, you know, some of the big key key concepts, if you, if you will, of NEOSC, which are we really value this idea of focusing more on impact than on inputs, which I think maybe traditionally in the past, accreditation has maybe been a bit more focused on inputs. So we might draw out schools to share how they're exploring that idea. And then also a big idea, which is our we call it a framework for high quality learning, but it's really kind of a roadmap for schools to really make sure and ensuring that there is high-quality learning for all learners. And so we might ask schools who are doing a lot of work in that area who might be further developed to share some of their stories. And of course, we also have schools who are, you know, they may just say, we've got a great, we're so excited, you know, we want to share our work in this area. Can, you know, can we jump on uh and do a webinar for you in in particular about a specific NEAST ACE learning principle? Um, and so it kind of, yeah, it varies. And it's great that we have schools that are kind of coming to us and saying, you know, it's we want to share, which is always exciting, to kind of raise up those schools and those voices.
SPEAKER_01:That's very exciting work and to know that there are so many schools that are looking to share what they've been doing to help elevate learner voices. In some of the contexts that I have worked in, that is not the case. And it's not that the I don't think it's an intentional, I don't want to say ignoring of student voice or learner voice, but maybe there just isn't the knowing what the resources are or where to start. Because I think that even as classroom teachers, right, it's it's kind of letting go of some control, right? So how do we how do we introduce a big idea of like we're gonna let our students help us make some decisions because this is their education. So what would you say to some folks who are like thinking about making this kind of shift, like from kind of more traditional schooling to, you know what, we really want to focus on what our students actually like really need versus what we think they need.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no, it's a it's a great question and it really it actually aligns and speaks well to the NISC community of schools because we do have schools, you know, who are on a continuum. That that's the great thing I think, you know, with the work I do with NIASC and their accreditation, it it's a it's a continuum, right? It's a development. Um it's not a yes, you're accredited or no. You know, I mean there are there are rigorous standards, but it's a developmental transformation for schools. And we do have schools who are right now maybe working at a traditional, what we might say is a traditional sense, and some who are, you know, as I said, having students lead the teacher professional development. When we work with schools, our pathway, which is the ACE learning pathway, actually is based on these 10 ACE learning principles rooted in research. And we try and help schools see that, you know, you you don't tackle this all all at once, right? And I that's why I'm really excited to dig more deeper into your second book because I it's this idea of you know capacity overload and you know, initiative overload. And when, you know, when we talk about capacity, it's not just always, oh, we need more and more. It's prioritizing, you know, maybe first what we have and what we can do. And something like, you know, student agency or our learning principle five, which is learner autonomy and engagement, you know, it it will take time because you are working with your whole community of learners who need to, I think, first understand the why, right? Why are we even saying that learners, you know, that learners should have a choice or have voice in your school? And we actually we we provide our own kind of research-based rationale for all of our learning principles. And we we say to school, start there because, you know, we know as being educators, teachers in schools, principals, we want to know the why and to why we're, you know, what's the benefit for our students? And then, you know, I don't know if it's a common phrase, but you know, every small step still matters. So it might be your teacher starting with just, you know, for 30 minutes of the day, their students help them plan that that time, right? Like, how would how should we organize our time right now? Like, what's what do you think is most important for us to do? It may be looking at their current structures that they do have. Maybe schools have like a student council, and maybe it's them reflecting and saying, okay, how does this actually work? What voices are included here? Are there other ways we might consider other voices, how how other voices could be involved? And I think that's that's the great, one of the great parts of what I get to do with schools is we're more of a partner. And we, as you just asked, schools always have questions, and we we partner with them to try and work with them, offering workshops that we can do with them and you know, with the school community, giving providing resources about our our learning principles. So um it's it's definitely something that's important for for NIASC, especially for our team when we go and work with schools.
SPEAKER_02:It feels like such a relevant thing for schools to be tackling in this day and age with with the modern world to really be incorporating elements of of that student agency for sure. Yeah. The work that we do with the the podcast and the books and everything that we do is a lot about, you know, how can we keep our colleagues in education in the profession and you know engaged and happy and not, you know, burning out and and that sort of thing. So I'd love to, you know, with your perspective of all these different schools around the world, I'd love to hear what what are some commonalities that you see where teachers are happy and engaged in the work that they're doing. What are those schools doing right to keep the teachers really happily happily positively engaged in the work that they're doing?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no, it's it's it's a big question. It's a it's a great question. And I think, you know, I think something that, and I always think back too, like in the different roles I've had in schools, something that made me feel engaged in that school and wanting to remain and and give as much as I could, it helped when there was, I don't want this to sound too simplistic, but when there was clarity in the school. You know how much goes on in a school day. We know, you know, no school day, every day is different. And of course, that's always gonna be, I think, right? That was that's just what we're what we're working with and what we do. But when schools, I think, can be very clear about the coherence of who they are. And I'll I I am gonna pull a little from NIOS here because what we see is when schools can be clear about what are our our highest aspirations? What are what are we clear about what our guiding statements are? These are the the biggest aspirations we have for our learners. And if we're clear about that, but we also pull from that to know what truly is our vision of our learner? What what are the actual call them impacts, qualities, competencies, what are those that we identify that our learners will develop over their time in our school, right? And then in addition to that, what do we agree as a community is shared practice in any learning space in the school that we agree to will provide opportunities to develop those visions of a learner to meet those highest aspirations. So I believe when schools are clear and coherent about that, that provides the educators with a feeling of, okay, everything's grounded then in this understanding of this is who we are, this is what we value about high quality learning. Because then we see teachers can say, okay, you know, it's not a one-room, what is it, one room schoolhouse where every room you close a door and there's something else, something different going on. And it's like, wait, but I'm trying to give this message to the students. And if we're doing this, so this idea is really how I rephrase it with NIASC as like a shared understanding, right? Of high quality learning, but it it involves those intersecting pieces. And then as a teacher, I know, okay, well, this is what I'm agreeing to. I'm gonna, this is my pedagogy to develop these, there's those impacts qualities. So I know now I can anchor my professional learning in that. I can, you know, self-reflect on where we are as a school with that. And I know that's a shared practice with everyone in the school. So I I want to continue to be a part of that. And then I also can then see that my students know what's expected in their learning experiences and you know what's what's expected of them as they reflect and grow in those those competencies and those skills. So, you know, I think it's a a place where you know what schools want to retain their teachers and prov providing that clarity, but then also teachers have voice too. So including teachers in the processes of what's going on in the school, providing, you know, that transparency, I think those are, you know, some of the bigger ideas I think that that want to keep teachers in the community that they're in.
SPEAKER_02:I know, sorry, Tammy, I know you're gonna jump in, but I just want to say I love that you just said clarity because when Tammy and I think about our time in Singapore, that always comes up, doesn't it, Tammy? Every single time we're like, we knew our leadership provided us with clear direction. We knew exactly what we were working on. So I'm so happy that you said that. That's awesome.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and that's actually what I was gonna say, Christine, too, is that. I've I learned a lot in those couple of years working with you in just really understanding exactly what you just said, right? Like we have to know exactly in a in a shared understanding. We all have the same direction that we want to go with the kids, and how are we going to do that? And that work is deep. It's really, really deep work and reflective. And sometimes schools don't have the time carved out to do that, but they need to, right? Like it's it's an essential piece of being able to move forward. And so I'm glad that you just really outlined that because I was, yeah, same, Christine. I'm like, yep, this is a I have like this visual of us in our multi-purpose room at tables with chart, paper, and standards and all the things. And that is something that I try to do in workshops with people to like really dig into that process. When you work with people through those kind of processes, what kind of aha's come about?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think, and and as going back, you know, we have schools across the continuum, and some schools are really developing this idea. Okay, you know, you know, what what does this mean for us? And sc and some schools, you know, might have a fully developed, let's say, definition of learning. But I I think NIASC pushes on that and says, okay, I know it's a language thing, but there's a there's a difference between having a a school having a definition of something versus a shared understanding in in practice, right? And I guess so, and I think when we start to workshop with schools, because this is a part of some of the set workshops we have, but also we can do more bespoke ones for schools based on where they are. Definitely this idea of the shared, the shared daily pedagogy, right? Because what happens is then schools will start to list all the things that they do, right? And these are inputs. These are things that we do, okay. We do them. And are we clear about all of those? What are what's the actual desired impact we want to happen if we're doing this input, right? And then they'll start thinking, well, I don't know why we do this particular thing, right? And so in one of our protocol, actually, one of our protocols, this we ask the schools in their report that they will do based on all of their internal reflections, is what are you going to start doing? What are you going to stop doing? You know, because again, going back to capacity, okay, there are some things that we don't need to be doing because do we do we first of all even know why we're doing them? What do we have a desired impact? And then if we don't, is that something that we really want to align with what we're saying about, you know, what we value in terms of high quality learning? So I think a lot of ahas come from that. And they start to think, and I think also one of our learning principles, which looks at how a school uses their learning space and time, is a big aha. You know, spaces in schools go beyond just your classroom. And so really exploring and playing with how do we use different spaces in terms of supporting what we say is our shared pedagogy. You know, you've you've both have seen a lot of schools, and a lot of times we'll see, you know, mission statements that talk about collaboration or visions of a learner say that we're collaborative. But then you'll go into the spaces. And I don't, I don't know if you can see how that supports, you know, collaboration. So I think a lot of ahas come also when schools can really reflect on the spaces they use and also how time, how time is used.
SPEAKER_02:Super reluctant to stop our conversation, but I can see the time ticking away, Sharon. We we always ask for a pair-down pointer at the end of an episode. So just one tip or tool or strategy that we use just to to pair things back and prioritize something you'd like to share with our listeners.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I guess, you know, one thing I I would say, and I think it helps schools, is to ask questions. You know, I I think we know as learners that they learn a lot and based on how they have the space to ask questions. And I think schools can do the same. Taking and I know it's you know, we talk about you know finding time, but it's it's super important for schools to take the time to understand who they are and to ask questions about the things they're doing. Because, you know, my colleague always says if a school doesn't know where they're going, they might end up someplace they don't want to be. And I think what I was talking about before, in terms of you know, that high-quality learning and that having a shared understanding of that is so important.
SPEAKER_01:Oh man, I hope lots of people listen to this episode. We are gonna have to do some massive, massive sharing because you hit on so many important points that I mean, Christine and I and people in our kind of camp and network talk about often, but we don't always see it out there. And so, you know, the more we talk about it and the more we emphasize the importance of being clear in who we are and people are understanding, like you said, like a definition is different from an understanding of it. And so if we get more people working through these processes, schools will just be in a better place.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you so much, Sharon. It was so great to chat with you again.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you for being with us for this episode. No, it was so wonderful to connect with you two again. It's bringing back a lot of memories of Singapore, which is wonderful. So thank you so much for inviting me.
SPEAKER_02:This episode is sponsored by Plan Z Education Services, supporting educators with forward-thinking professional learning that puts both student impact and teacher wellness at the center. Driven by a vision to teach less, impact more, they help educators find purpose, prioritize what matters, and simplify their practice. Learn more at planzeducation.com.
SPEAKER_03:Thank you for listening to the Minimalist Educator Podcast. Join Christine and Tammy and guests again next time for more conversations about how to simplify and clarify the responsibilities and tasks in your role. If today's episode helped you rethink, reimagine, reduce, or realign something in your practice, share it in a comment or with a colleague. For resources and updates, visit planzeducation.com and subscribe to receive weekly emails. Until next time, keep it simple and stay intentional.
