The Minimalist Educator Podcast
A podcast about paring down to focus on the purpose and priorities in our roles.
The Minimalist Educator Podcast
Episode 097: From Hawai’i To Indiana: How Local Context Transforms Science Classrooms with Whitney Aragaki and Kirstin Milks
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What if the fastest path to deeper learning is simply paying close attention to where and who we are? We sit down with award-winning educators and co-authors Whitney Aragaki and Kirstin Milks to explore a clear, humane approach to place-based science that helps students care, think critically, and take action without overwhelming teachers.
Whitney brings the lens of Hawai‘i, five generations rooted on island, and shows how honoring culture, economy, and environment makes science personal and rigorous. Kirstin shares how a self-described “not outdoorsy” molecular biologist learned local ecology alongside students in the Midwest and turned neighborhood parks and quarries into laboratories for authentic inquiry. Together they dismantle common myths: place-based learning isn’t just for rural schools, and it doesn’t require grand field trips. Urban ecosystems are alive with data, and meaningful shifts start with one small, intentional move.
We walk through four guiding questions—Where are we? When are we? Who are we? Who are we together?—and show how they act like a compass for curriculum design, reflection, and mentorship. Expect concrete strategies: building a shared bank of interview questions for elders, onboarding teachers to a new region with seasonal calendars and community partners, and using “I don’t know—let’s find out” to model authentic scientific thinking. You’ll hear stories of students connecting Arctic fires to Micronesian atolls, pitching research to city leaders, and turning local problems into national STEM recognition—all because learning was rooted in place, people, and purpose.
If you’re seeking practical, sustainable ways to teach less and impact more, this episode offers a roadmap grounded in clarity and care. Subscribe, share with a colleague, and leave a review to help more educators discover minimalist, place-based strategies that elevate student voice and community connection.
Find our book The Minimalist Teacher and Your School Leadership Edit: A Minimalist Approach to Rethinking Your School's Ecosystem at the links!
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The Minimalist Educator Podcast is a Plan Z Education Services adventure.
Welcome to the Minimalist Educator podcast, where the focus is on a less is more approach to education. Join your hosts, Christine Arnold and Tammy Musiowski, authors of The Minimalist Teacher and your school leadership edit, a minimalist approach to rethinking your school ecosystem, each week as they explore practical ways to simplify your work, sharpen your focus, and amplify what matters most so you can teach and lead with greater clarity, purpose, and joy.
SPEAKER_02On this week's episode of the podcast, we have a fascinating conversation about place-based education with Whitney Aragaki and Kirsten Milk. Their paradigm pointers are around knowing that it's okay not to know all the answers and how to create a bank of questions to start critical conversations. Whitney Aragaki is an educated parent and learner from Hilo, Hawaii. She supports students to learn through a lens of abundance that honest place, people, and cultures. Her teaching focuses around conversations, practices, systems that sustain the intimate interrelationship of public education, community, and environment. Kinston Milks creates innovative, collaborative, science-oriented learning experiences for children and adults. She's a national board certified teacher, a presidential awardee for excellence in math and science teaching, a Lily Teacher Creativity Fellow, a Senior Fellow at the Knowledge Teacher Initiative, and the 2025 president of the National Association of Biology Teachers. Together they talk about their book designed to help educators connect students to curriculum, community, and caring for our planet.
SPEAKER_03Hello everyone, and welcome to this week's episode of the Minimalist Educator Podcast. This week, Christine and I are excited to talk to two co-authors, just like we are, which is exciting. We are talking to Whitney Aragaki and Kirsten Milks, the authors or co-authors of place-based science teaching, which has has come out with Corwin Press. Welcome to the show, Kirsten and Whitney. Thank you. We are looking, we always like talking to authors and about so we're going to talk about your book itself, but we want to also talk about the process because we know that writing is it's a great joy. We love writing together. And so Christine and I have never written any of our writings in the same country. And the two of you live in separate states. Is that correct?
SPEAKER_04That's right. I'm coming to you from Bloomington, Indiana.
SPEAKER_03Yep. And I'm from Bloomington.
SPEAKER_04And we is all together. Yep.
Meeting Story And Deciding To Co-Author
SPEAKER_03So then did you okay? First of all, how did the two of you meet and then determine that you were going to co-write a book? Because you're coming from different states. And I mean, you must have a love for science teaching. So maybe that's where it started.
SPEAKER_04We actually were on the same project, and one of us was live at a meeting, and one of us was on a computer screen. And I remember thinking at the end of this meeting, I would love to work and think more with Whitney. And then when our paths crossed about a year later, we were in person together for the first time and started talking about our teaching. And it was so cool to discover that even though we teach very different students in very different places and we've taught a wide variety of different subjects, that the like engine of our classroom and our teaching practice was the same. So that's where all of this really started. I think we've known each other, man, my kids were little. So it's been six, five, six years at this point, but it was because it was about, I I think it was probably two years ago now, almost two years ago, that we met in person and realized this could really work.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think that this this also, this partnership and this this professional relationship is similar, Tammy, to how we know each other, you know, through social media. And after that training that Kirsten and I did, I think it was 1819, 2018, 19, we connected on Twitter. And, you know, Kirsten would share from her classroom, I would share from my classroom, and it would be very similar. We'd hype each other up throughout those amazing Twitter days. And then yeah, it was really great to be back to meet in person. And at that initial meeting, within two days, we had agreed that we're gonna do this, we're gonna email this Corwin editor, and it's gonna be a partnership versus something that's either just mine or just Kirsten's.
SPEAKER_02And what and one more process question, I've got to do it. So, how do you how did you guys tackle the whole writing in different places?
SPEAKER_04Well, I know a really important part of this podcast is trying to figure out how to simplify and follow your path as an educator. And for me, this was something that fit into the rest of my life. You know, I'm a caregiver of two school-aged kids. I am currently pressed into service as the science olympiad coach. I mean, there's a lot going on in my in my schedule. And so finding something where we could make something together and we could fit it into those little pieces of our days, it felt like a really beautiful way to create something that was about teaching and to collaborate with this brilliant, exceptionally kind teacher. And I think it actually probably helped Whitney that we were in very different time zones.
SPEAKER_01Totally. I think that at some point we had started because you know we had been writing independently prior to this, but we write about these concepts of place-based science teaching. But like I had my dissertation kind of done. Kirsten has been a writer for years. And so blending those styles together was first a little bit tricky, but then once we had Zoom conversations, said, okay, what are we gonna talk about in this chapter? Kind of outlining it, it was really fun to think about how Kirsten would start it up on East Coast time and write throughout the day. And when I woke up, I'd get their notes, and then I'm okay, well, you're gonna get something hopefully, you know, hopefully thoughtful and meaningful by when you wake up again the next morning. And so that's kind of how we did this. Something I was reflecting on is that we were we were having big submissions right around the end of our school calendars. So when there was like a big spring break or a big winter break kind of ending, it was like, that's also when this gigantic Microsoft Word document is due to the editor. And you know, I kind of got a some social media notification because it's been a year now since we submitted that big final draft in December of last year. So yeah, all good things.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's amazing.
SPEAKER_01That's wild, friend.
Book Design, Community Voices, And Value
SPEAKER_03Isn't it funny too? The the process after you hit submit, right? Like you have more work to do, hopefully not too much, but there's still like the design and the all of the logistics and what your tables look like and all those things. So it is quite a process and a huge accomplishment.
SPEAKER_04We were really lucky that we had people that shared that with us, right? So our book has these stories at the end of it from people who are doing place-based learning all across North America in a variety of different ways. And I think one thing I did not understand when I was writing this book, and that maybe I would pass off to people who are thinking about what it would mean to venture forth on a similar journey, is that there are a lot of people really excited about educator knowledge and about things that teachers know. And they might seem like pretty obvious to you, right? It might seem like, oh, well, of course we think this way or we do this way, or I've learned this thing. But it can be so helpful to read and hear other people's ideas and then use them to help think about your own place and time and teaching context.
Defining Place-Based Teaching Beyond Stereotypes
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's really cool. And yeah, it's sometimes we can get in that space where, like, well, if I write something, somebody's also kind of has written something similar, but they haven't heard it from you and your experience either. So the the contribution that you both have made from you know different states, different perspectives, but bringing in to the same idea of place-based learning and place-based science teaching is so valuable. And so, can you then share with us kind of where where the passion for this idea came from? And so, like, was it from teaching or even prior to that?
SPEAKER_01Whitney, you should start. I think that place-based teaching is a common term in Hawaii. We use it, we throw it around a lot, and we talk about how do we have our students have relevancy in their learning, how do they especially because our students are so far away from North America and the stories that come out of North America or the access that they have is like where do they have their gifts and how do they shine? And so we really lean into place-based science teaching or place-based teaching in general in Hawaii. And yet, when people hear it, they construe it to be entirely indigenous or entirely foreign to what North American teaching looks like, what Western teaching looks like. And it there's this blend to it that we honor our rooted culture here. We honor the cultures that have come here, have made their place here. So it's not this idea of, well, that's not my culture. Being in place is you are here, and so being present in it, bringing your own lived experiences, bringing your family's gifts, all those things is part of place. And I think that it is done on the continent a lot, and it's just not named that. So, what we're doing right now with this book is we're really trying to name it so that people feel like they're what they do is is research-based practices. It's not just coming from, oh, that's a that's something I do at home, and so maybe it's gonna be done in school, and they'll be honor it home, school, community, family, everything.
SPEAKER_04Right. And what Whitney's PhD thesis taught us is that people have been studying place-based teaching in the academy for many, many years in many, many ways through many, many angles. And so the interesting dilemma problem, like the thing to solve was how do you translate that for teachers, not because teachers don't have intellectual access to that work, but because we are already doing the full-time work of teaching. And this idea of saying, yes, you know, these moments that you've had in the classroom with your students that connect to where and who you are and have been deeply meaningful. Well, it turns out there's a whole body of research about that. And you're on the right path. And so I think it's been really helpful from our early readers to be able to go back to department chairs and administrators and say, hey, like this is this is a body of scholarship that's happening right now, and we are learning about best practices and this work of thinking about where we are, when we are, who we are, and who we are together, that you know, we know that amazing teachers so naturally do, is just part and parcel of this much bigger conversation about high-quality educational experiences.
SPEAKER_02I'm gonna share with you a slightly embarrassing story just to connect to what you said. Love you. So Rebby. I'm originally from Australia, but I'm currently working in the Netherlands. So completely different place, completely different hemisphere, climate, the whole nine yards. And when I first moved here, we I was teaching third grade, and we had a unit about ecosystems and you know, disruption to ecosystems and all of that good stuff. I was like, great, awesome, love it. Transfer of energy, composers, decomposers, producers, I got it. I've known all of this. Until I found myself in a lesson about food chains and food webs with our local ecosystem. And I sat there going, I have no idea what a badger eats. I am completely clueless about this local ecosystem. I was like, you know, give me kangaroos, give me koalas, I'm fine. But with these animals in this ecosystem, I have no idea. So I think it is it's a really interesting thing to think about. And I'd love to hear is that is that one of the sorts of things that people run into, actually not understanding the place that they're in, or are there other things that come up more frequently with teachers when you're talking to them about this?
SPEAKER_04No, that's that's definitely one of them. So I'm a transplant to the Midwest. I grew up in upstate New York, halfway between New York City and Canada. And when I came here, number one, my particular little city is surrounded by limestone quarries and cornfields. And so my students that I teach live, some of them are living very like urban, suburban lifestyles. And some of them are getting up early in the morning to milk a whole herd of goats, right? And so there are many people who come to this work from my neck of the woods and say, Well, I'm not very outdoorsy. You know, we have this large number of people who have traditions in my in my area, they're still steeped in the calendar, in knowing about ecosystems like you described. And then there are those of us like me, you know, I studied molecules my whole time through college and grad school, and I can tell you so much about atoms and how they connect. And I showed up in the classroom, and like you, I was like, oh, I actually don't know anything about this. And so I think that idea of like positioning yourself as a learner in your classroom and giving yourself that like expansive grace and being like, yeah, I don't know either. Let's figure it out. Like, what a what a relief and a joy to be able to like learn alongside your students in that way. So I'm not a terribly outdoorsy person, but I've learned a lot from and with my students over the 15 or so years I've lived here.
SPEAKER_01And you would never tell that. The way that Kirsten writes in the book and your their connections with all of the living things. I mean, there's this whole list of how when you take students out, these are the things you should look for. It is beautiful and it's something that I don't even have that knowledge and something that I want to use when I go into like continental outdoor spaces. And then I come from a very different perspective where I've lived here all my life. You know, I'm five generations in, I'm raising my sixth generation to be here on on this island. And there's a part in our book where we talk about place-based teacher mentorship. Is that when teachers are new to a place, what do you do? Whose responsibility is it to teach them about the place? Is it their responsibility individually because they are new to the place and they should? I mean, maybe should is a weird word there, but they could learn about the place. And is it the responsibility of the person who's been here, who's the teacher, the veteran teacher? Where does that go? And so we give some ideas of how that looks for teacher mentorship spaces. Like what, how could you develop a calendar year plan or a school year plan, different things that you can focus on, engaging with local businesses? You know, the economy is also a play space feature in every space. Yes, yes, it is. Engaging in the outdoor spaces, engaging in the local um places that our kids weekend at, whether it's fun places, hangout places, worship places, all these different things, so that our our teachers can then make connections back into the classroom. You know, there's a certain juice that's really, really popular in my specific town. And I bring Wait, what is it? I want to know. It's called what is it? Yeah, it's called YV juice. It's it's actually strawberry guava, which is an invasive plant, but it's really good juice. So, and it was made on islands. So I bring that juice and I say, this is the juice that kids like this is their olfactory memory from childhood. And so if you can make a connection to something like this, then students might might be more willing to share with you another memory, might be more willing to share with you about their local context. And those kind of things, those small things are part of mentoring as well and place-based teaching.
Urban Nature And Busting Rural-Only Myths
SPEAKER_04So I think there's this big misconception too, about that this type of teaching is only for people who live in rural areas. Both Whitney and I happen to live in rural areas. But we found ourselves together in Philadelphia this spring at the National Science Teachers Association meeting. And as part of our talk, we wanted to bring the nature of urbanized Philadelphia into our session. And so the day before, we went outside to a city park and we started taking video evidence, and we found evidence of birds and squirrels and different types of plants and mushrooms and fungi and all these other different things that work together to make that ecosystem also vibrant and interesting.
SPEAKER_03That's such a great connection to make because it's making me think about two. I I moved from Edmonton, Alberta, Canada to New York City. And that transition to, you know, Edmonton's like a million people or so, moving to about seven to eight million people in a smaller amount of space without any transition for new teachers coming in across a border. Like I'd visited there, but you know, going to teach there is totally different. So this mentorship piece is so essential. And had I had a bit of that, like we got we got to do some city things and things like that, that's fine. But the the education piece was completely missing. Like I didn't get to meet with any other teachers from the area that I was going to be teaching in. I really didn't even know until I moved to the city where I was going to be teaching or what school. And then compare that to when Christine and I moved to Singapore, we had a bunch of days where we could connect with each other. We had people who lived locally and we could experience the local culture. And that, and I think because we taught in an IB school, that's kind of naturally part of the curriculum. And so that immersion into it was just completely different, a different experience for me. It was a total culture shock moving to New York City, but moving to Singapore was not that hard for me, which seems kind of odd. But those mentorship pieces are so, so important. And I think we overlook that.
SPEAKER_01I think so too. And I think let's share the virtual chapter on mentorship. Let's do that. Oh, yeah. Let's do that. Oh, our chapter on mentorship is is free and publicly accessible. So yeah, I'm just gonna put that in to remind ourselves to do that.
Student Agency, Local Problems, Real Audiences
SPEAKER_03That would be perfect. And then we'll put that in in the show notes as well. I was wondering about your student responses to this kind of I shouldn't call it this kind of teaching, to place-based teaching. So because it's the way we should be teaching, right? It it should be naturally a thing that we do. So is there have you noticed a response to students when they really get invested into whatever's happening in their immediate environment?
Start Here: Four Guiding Questions
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so much so. I'm gonna talk about a short conversation I think we're having recently, or not recently. Yeah, it was last year. Last year that happened. We talk about Arctic fires that are constantly continuing to burn throughout the winter. And this is a weird phenomenon because yes, on our island we do have snow, but many students don't go up to the snow. It's kind of a a more sacred spot, so we don't we don't often go to the snow. So their connection to snow is very minimal. But we wanted to talk about these Arctic fires, and it's it's kind of a conundrum. This is featured in Open Sci ed uh curriculum. And we are talking about it and talking about how climate change is really affecting populations in the Arctic and how they're losing their ground to the melting permafrost. They're not able to hold on to their foundations for buildings and certain things. And something that I experienced when I was growing up is that I I was fortunate enough to to study in Alaska, to study birds in Alaska. And so I got to see these places that were that are now melting. And it's it's really sad for me to think about like that that was that was so it seemed so common at that time and now it's not as accessible by plane, by My car and certain things. And I was sharing this with the students. And two students turned to each other and said, That's isn't that just like what we're experiencing? And I was like, Well, we're not really experiencing this. There's there's some tides. And they said, No, no, no. What I'm talking about is on our atoll in Chuk, on our atolls in Micronesia, they're experiencing the same loss of land because of rising sea tides. And, you know, for me, I'm not thinking of you know, my place is Hawai'i. I think of it specifically here. And but my students come from different places as well. And then they started having that conversation of what that meant to like lose the beaches that they're so familiar with, that they when they go back to their assholes, it's not the same anymore. And you know, they're they're here for education, they're here for advancement. And but that conversation developed a whole day and discussion of empathy, an empathy of like, how do we connect our populations in alignment against climate change? What do we have to do now? What is it? Is it our burden? Because it is our we are affected by it, but it is the burden of others also to take on this pushing against climate change. And I think that even though place we we met in Hawaii, we're talking Hawaii, we're thinking globally. So it's all about like local context, local solutions, and all these different things.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. And really, very truly, the physical place you are is only one part of the story of a place-based lens, right? So my favorite of the four questions in the book that requires the others is who are we together? So anytime that you can show students something that is important locally and set up a problem that relates to your curriculum, and then have them design a solution and support them in using their creativity and their knowledge, you end up with students who are a lot more motivated to learn those curricular pieces because they're embedded as necessary stepping stones towards like just changing the world. And I've had several groups of students now who have wanted to work on something because something big because it was very local to where and who we are as a community and communities that live in this area. So I've had students win national STEM competitions, I've had students take their project and do an Eagle Scout or a Girl Scouting Gold Award, and I've had students present their ideas to adults in our community who are professionals in kind of, you know, from parks and recreation, from Office of City Management, from our local community college and university. I mean, there are just so many ways that students can find a way to use what they know and also what they're learning in school. It is so powerful. And I think that if we can craft experiences for young people where they feel that sense of agency, then we are building a future where more people feel more comfortable taking some of that leadership into their hands. You know, the the the real thing for teachers is that teachers who are experiencing a healthy time in the classroom, and I mean that in all the different ways, are really well supported by their communities. And that's exactly what is at the core of place-based science teaching, of being able to take that support and have people working together on different pieces to build a better future.
SPEAKER_02It really sounds like you're speaking to that so what question of education. It's not just like a list of skills or standards, it's like what are we doing with this, which is really exciting to hear about. I can't wait to have a look at the book. If if people want to, you know, an entryway in, if they're looking for somewhere to start, you've mentioned the mentor as an important aspect of it. But if people are really starting to think about this and want to take the first steps, what sort of tips would you suggest for them?
The Middle Path: Try One Small Thing
SPEAKER_01I think that the first thing that we ask our colleagues to do is think about the four questions that we align in the book, which are where are you, when are you, who are you, and who are we together, and answer them. And answer them just as they are right now. Take a notepad, put a notes app on your phone, and just answer those four questions and see where you're at. If something comes up for you, and that's the emotional response. If something comes up like I don't know, or I'm not sure, or I think it was this, that's where you start. I think that we want our kids to answer this question, we want ourselves to answer this question. Kirsten and I, as a practice, we add we've we started off with answering those questions and then we we wrote part halfway through and we answered them again and say, where how are we doing with this? It's kind of like a compass for us to gauge how we're understanding, how we're engaging in the world. And it's something that these are four questions that can be quickly answered, and then you can take a long time to answer them as well. And your answers change over time, which is the most beautiful part is the documenting that process as well.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and we recently published a piece encouraging teachers who are interested in the intersection of place-based and problem-based learning. Just that, like, you don't have to build a whole year of school at once. There's this false binary where we either say, okay, you are going to be a super teacher and you are going to stretch super hard and build these awesome things, and every year is gonna be awesome, but you are very crispally burned out. And on the other side, we have this myth of quiet quitting, right? It's gonna teach the same thing every year for 20 years, happy where I am, leave at the end of the school day and don't look back. And to be clear, there are times in both of our adult lives where that is what we have had to do. There are times as grown-ups in families and communities with health histories, where sometimes you you have to go door to door bell to bell and that's it, or what have you. But there's a whole bunch of space in the middle for most teachers most of the time. And that is to try something small. Maybe it's bringing in a guest teacher that connects to a topic and is part of your community. Maybe it's having students go and interview their elders about their experience of being in your place and like transmit that oral history, circling back to something Whitney said about Alaska changing and how that might not be visible now. When young people interview elders, that knowledge becomes more apparent and that change over time becomes more apparent. And also, elders have some pretty good ideas for how to fix things sometimes, which is also an interesting thing for learners of any age to uncover. But I think like exploring that middle where you are not breaking yourself as an educator, but you're also doing work that like aligns with your values and the future you want for your students. There are some things in education that I wish we could just bulldoze and try again. And also when you think about the power you have as an educator, you've got a pretty tremendous power to start small and let those experiences add up for your students.
Pared-Down Pointers And Closing Sponsor
SPEAKER_03You said so many powerful things right there, Kirsten. So many. We I think it's important for us to really think about we aren't the same person every day. So, you know, there isn't that binary or dichotomy, like we don't have to be that same person that yeah, dichotomy. That does, you know, you don't have to give everything all the time. You can just be in the moment and be there for now and then and then re-ask yourself those questions, I think is that's something I often have little post-its on my desk of just like reminders. And I think those are questions that are good ones to just have posted, just as reminders every once in a while to think about those, write some thoughts down. And we're already at the conversations go by so quickly and it's half an hour. We're already at our wrapping up of our episode with you. And we always ask our guests for pared-down pointers. We talked about a lot of things. So it might be something that you already brought up, it might be something different. But what is a tip from each of you that you would share with our l listeners?
SPEAKER_04I'd like to be clear that the wonderful hosts of this podcast asked us to write this down already for them. And I think it's really telling that both Whitney and I are like, where do we start? Ain't that the show?
SPEAKER_03That's funny.
SPEAKER_04So I I talked about starting small, right? And and the power of that. I think a another really important one is that it's okay that you don't know everything. You know, I've worked in systems with evaluations where teachers get dinged if they can't answer every single student question. That's that's not how we model learning for people, right? I don't know, but we can find out, or I don't know, who could we ask? Boy, those are some really powerful ways that you can model for learners what it looks like to go out in the world and and learn things. And I think that acknowledging that you don't have all the answers yet, but that you're learning alongside students, it like frees up a lot of that shame that I otherwise have felt about not yet knowing. I think that'd be my tip.
SPEAKER_01So along those lines, I want to share something when we talk about talking to elders and talking to others in the community. It is a joy to see how students connect. It is also, it also can be a pain point if they don't know what to ask, or if the elder does not know how much to share. And so a pair down point that I'd like to share when talking with talking with community and talking with elders is helping students create a list of questions and having a common list of questions that they can come back and share with each other afterwards. So it's the three questions, it's a it's a way to start the conversation, it's a way to frame a potentially uncomfortable, why are you asking me this kind of thing in the intermediary? And it's something that would align with how how and what others can and should make share with students. So that's something that I'd like to suggest.
SPEAKER_02Okay, thank you so much for both being here today. We really appreciate it, and we encourage all our listeners to get a copy of the book and find out more. Thank you both for being here today. Thank you. It's been wonderful. This episode is sponsored by Plan Z Education Services, supporting educators with forward-thinking professional learning that puts both student impact and teacher wellness at the center. Driven by a vision to teach less, impact more, they help educators find purpose, prioritize what matters, and simplify their practice. Learn more at planceducation.com.
SPEAKER_00Thank you for listening to the Minimalist Educator podcast. Join Christine and Tammy and guests again next time for more conversations about how to simplify and clarify the responsibilities and tasks in your role. If today's episode helped you rethink, reimagine, reduce, or realign something in your practice, share it in a comment or with a colleague. For resources and updates, visit planzeducation.com and subscribe to receive weekly emails. Until next time, keep it simple and stay intentional.