Episode 102: Unpopular Opinions in Education Part 1 with Guests

Join past guests, Naomi Church, Sheila Kennedy, Krista Leh, and Nicole Dissinger for a doozy of a conversation!

We share our most unpopular opinions about education and question whether schools confuse seat time with real learning. We challenge rigid policies and make the case for more intentional schedules and more joy because both directly shape student growth and teacher wellbeing. 

• attendance policies rewarding compliance over learning
• valuing learning that happens outside the school building
• reflection instead of make-up work during vacations or illness
• questioning the idea that longer school days mean more learning
• the role of childcare, meals, sports schedules, and sibling care in school timing
• intentional planning through the lens of Parkinson’s law
• joy as a necessity grounded in psychology and brain science
• designing curriculum for what students find meaningful
• building joy through classroom environment and school culture

If today's episode helped you rethink, reimagine, reduce, or realign something in your practice, share it in a comment or with a colleague. For resources and updates, visit plan zeducation dot com and subscribe to receive weekly emails.

This episode is sponsored by Plan Z Education Services.

Transcript

Welcome And Setup

SPEAKER_00 0:16

Welcome to the Minimalist Educator podcast, where the focus is on a less is more approach to education. Join your hosts, Christine Arnold and Tammy Musiowski, authors of The Minimalist Teacher and your school leadership edit, a minimalist approach to rethinking your school ecosystem, each week as they explore practical ways to simplify your work, sharpen your focus, and amplify what matters most so you can teach and lead with greater clarity, purpose, and joy.

SPEAKER_04 0:46

On this week's episode of the podcast, we're joined by some returning guests for a brilliant and refreshingly honest conversation about unpopular opinions in education. Our guests are Chris Delay, Naomi Church, Nicole Dissinger, and Sheila Kennedy. We're talking about ideas that rarely make it into the official staff meetings, but probably should. This is part one of a wide-ranging discussion that honestly we couldn't fit into just one episode. But trust us, you're gonna want to stick around for part two. Hello everyone, and welcome to this week's episode of the Minimalist Educator Podcast. We are very excited today because we have a great topic, but we also have some very special friends joining us today. Not only is it me and Tammy, but we also have Krista, Sheila, Naomi, and Nicole all returning guests. So welcome everybody. I hope you're doing well.

SPEAKER_01 1:41

Thanks for having us.

Attendance Versus Real Learning

SPEAKER_04 1:43

So excited to have this chat. So today we are sharing our unpopular opinions about education. Might get a little bit controversial here. Might have to give a few caveats as well. So we've each prepared an unpopular opinion to share with you today. And then we're going to have a little bit of a chat about it. So I'm going to start us off out of the six opinions today. So my unpopular opinion, everybody, is attendance policies inhibit a well-rounded education. So I am currently in a school system where we do have quite strict attendance policy. So it does make me think about it quite a bit. And I think I'm also influenced by my culture as well, my Australian culture. But I really do feel strongly that there's so much experience and learning that happens outside of the school and the school day. And I feel like we, you know, attendance policies can really make us focus on all of the learning that can happen in a student's life. It's just going to happen within the walls of the building. And I just really truly disagree with that idea. And I think it puts a value on not the learning, it puts a value on ideas about compliance and whether you've got the wherewithal in your life to actually show up every single day to the school. So I really feel like we should find ways to measure and value the learning that's going on or our attitudes to learning rather than just showing up, you know. And I might bring Krista in on this last point as well. You know, I think we if we want to have social emotional learning, if we want our students as part of their education to develop EQ, we want them to be paying attention to what how their body is and how they're feeling. And if you have just got really strict attendance policies about you have to show up, that encourages people to ignore it, ignore what's going on with themselves and just keep going and turning up, even when maybe they shouldn't be. I don't know if you wanted to weigh in on that, Krista.

SPEAKER_02 3:57

Yeah, well, you're going one direction and then you added on another really fantastic part about if your body's not feeling well, forcing yourself to show up is not the healthiest thing for you. And knowing when it is time to step back and to take a rest, because that is restorative. And your first part was reminding me of a trip that we saved up for and took the boys to Italy. And that was such a great learning experience that they had. And it also had me thinking that, and I wonder what the others think on this, that perhaps there could be a collaborative piece around reflection for the students when they go on different trips or when they're staying home. Like, how are you feeling right now? What was an aha that you had? What would you do differently? And it would allow the school and the home to come together to support the student and broaden the student's learning. So, Sheila, I see you nodding your head. I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.

SPEAKER_03 4:53

Yes, I was just thinking from my own experience back when I was in the classroom full time. And our policy was if there was an extended absence, whether it was for a vacation or the student was sick, they wanted us to have math and English, all the schoolwork put together and sent home for them to do, whether it was because they were sick, which is crazy. Like, yes, let's do schoolwork while you're sick, or when you're on vacation, they were expected to do the work that they were missing in class. And I don't think it's probably a surprise to anybody who knows me very well that I didn't always do what I was told to do in the classroom. I did what I felt was best for my students and what I knew from research and experience as well. And I always would send home a blank little journal and said, if you have the time while you're on vacation and you're looking for some downtime or some reflection time, and that's when I heard you say, Chris, about the reflection time, take the time to do something in the journal, whether it's to drill a picture. I was a first grade teacher, draw a picture or write a sentence, or what was your big excitement piece from the day, or what are you looking forward to for tomorrow? And whatever you do is wonderful. And if you come back with a blank journal, that's okay too. Because when you come back, that's going to offer our time to have a discussion and talk to the class and share and connect with everyone with your experience. But it wasn't so much about that end result of what is the work or having to show up because it's that specific policy that this is what we do. There needs to be that flexibility and meeting each family where they are. And coming from that socialemotional piece, how important it is to have that quality time with your family members or extended friends, whomever it is that you're spending your time with, to build and connect with them and what learning opportunities are in those experiences and not on a piece of paper or on a project or a report because that is what we said has to be done. So that was where I was nodding and going with all of that. But I'll let someone else chime in.

SPEAKER_06 7:10

So I have a lot of thoughts around that and have heard lots of different opinions from teachers that I work with. But it this part kind of what you were just talking about, Sheila, kind of lends itself to the unpopular opinion that I was gonna bring up. I won't bring it up though, unless someone else has something to say about this first one.

SPEAKER_01 7:32

I was just gonna share because as soon as you brought it up, Christine, I was like, yep. Like that was me at the beginning of my teaching career. Because, right? Like at the very beginning of your teaching career, you're like, you're learning everything, and you're like, okay, the school says you can only miss 10%. Like it's a big deal. You have to be here. Like it's important. We're doing important work here, like which, yeah, we are, but at the same time, like there's six, seven, eight, like there's other things that go on, it's life. Like, you don't go to work every day, you get sick sometimes, or you take time off to go on a vacation. Like, it's the same thing. And I remember it wasn't until I moved overseas. And you know, I had multiple kids that I they would send in a note, and the parents are like, Oh, the doctor prescribed a week by the seaside or this or that. And I'm like, This is bogus, right? Like, this is insane. And then I'm like, why not? I would love a week by the seaside. Like, that sounds lovely. Like, also, what does it matter? It's not gonna like have a huge impact on their educational career as a whole, if they're missing a few days here and there, like, especially when they're super young, because they're like just learning how to be a human still. So, yeah, I after I kind of had that like realization, I'm like, yeah, one as a teacher is way easier for me because that's one, two less kids I have in my class for the day, right? Like, okay, great, have a good day. And then also just thinking about like as a little human, sometimes you need a day to do whatever it is you need to do. Sometimes your parents are like, we cannot get it together. I just can't even take you to school. Like, okay, it's fine. They can spend the day together. Or like what you were saying, Sheila, like they're having time with family or you know, good friends that they haven't seen in a year, maybe, or who knows? And like that's just as important, if not maybe more important. So it's just so funny. I think it's probably partially just like in the beginning of your teaching career, right? And you're just like trying to figure everything out and like what do I have control over versus what do I not have control over? And all of those things. But yeah, now I'm like, you want to go for a week? Great, have a great time. Send me a postcard. Tell me about it when you get back. Like, but yeah, it's definitely an interesting topic for sure. I'm glad you brought that up.

Do Longer Days Help Kids

SPEAKER_06 10:14

Yeah, I was wondering what our differences in opinion might be, just having half of us who have worked internationally and the other half have been more local or like US-based, because I too had a similar, like when I taught New York, it was like, why aren't they here? Like they should be here every single day. They need to be here. But then living and working in a place where it's highly transient and people are traveling to their home countries a lot to see their families, like they need the time to travel from like Singapore to, you know, England or whatever, like that's a long journey with a family. So that extended time is sometimes what they just have to do. So I'll bring up a next opinion and then because it's related, and this opinion is that longer school days mean more learning. Well, okay, my brain is going in different directions. Let's start with high school students, right? We know that teens need more sleep, but yet they start their day at a time when it doesn't developmentally work for them in some in almost every place. There are definitely districts who've tried the later start and it has benefited their students. Their attendance has increased. But now we're looking at, and not just now, but you know, we've we've been in a time where let's send our three and four year olds to junior kindergartens at like you know 7 a.m., give them a longer day at school. But why? Why are we doing that to little people? So just because they're in a school building early in the day and then they stay for after school and extended care, which isn't always academic, you know, sometimes those are clubs and things which are great. But they're in a school building for a long time. And it just because they're there, it doesn't mean that they the learning time for them is rich or meaningful. And I get, you know, a lot of it has to do with parent schedules, but it is it good for kids to be at schools for that long. I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 12:29

Anyone else? I was ready to like argue, and then you kind of added on. Like there are a lot of parents that have to work, single parent households and households where both parents have to work, and school serves many purposes in addition to educating kids, right? And and I know that we all know that, but it's like it's feeding the kids, it's like giving them a safe place to be, and it's like child care when parents have to go to work. So I understand why three and four-year-olds are in school for long days. I think my own kids, when they were in preschool, I probably dropped off at 7 a.m. because I was a classroom teacher and I had to be at school by 7:30. So my kids were at their daycare by 7, and I didn't pick them up till I think 3:30 or 4 because I wasn't allowed to leave until after 3. And so yeah, it's a super long day for them. But I think that what you said after is a key piece is that it doesn't all have to be academically structured, that there are other kinds of enrichment activities. So we can still have the kids in this safe place, provide the child care, feed the kids, but after a certain time, you know, or maybe not even at a certain time, but like sprinkled throughout the day. Maybe a longer school day is a good thing if we have time for breaks in the middle, and it's not just pushing kids straight through for five hours and instead we're gonna do like three hours on, one hour off, and then another three hours on. And maybe that changes the way things look. So I think the context matters a lot, and it's not just like longer school is bad.

SPEAKER_01 14:29

I think that's a good point, and this is a little bit of a tangent. That's part of the reason why I've never given homework to kids, is because I tell parents like your kid is at school all day doing work, like they don't need to go home and do more work. They can go home and be with you because they're away from you for so many hours. But I think like what Naomi were saying, you made me think about that. I go into classrooms these days, and I'm thinking kindergarten in specific, and there's like no play happening. So they are at school for a long period of time, and they're just doing academics with like a small morning break and like their lunch, and then that's it. Like, like what you're saying is great. Like, yes, come in, have some breakfast, play for a little bit, then we'll do some academics, then we'll have a break and some snack and build do some building or do some this or have some play and then you know, like that makes sense if they're there for longer hours because they're not just doing academics like we're saying, like sit down and read and do this or that. They're getting a more well-rounded experience because they're getting all of the things they need, not just sitting and listening to a story, or you know, like whatever we're we're seeing in a lot of classrooms these days.

SPEAKER_05 15:56

And we've all felt that pressure as teachers, right? Like I have this much stuff to get through in this amount of time. So maybe opening up more time takes some of that pressure off. And even if it's not, I mean, you know, this is an ideal world that I'm talking about with like three hours on, one hour off. But even just saying there's an extra hour in the school day changes the mindset of the teacher into thinking like, oh, I can do some of these other game-based activities or other things because I have more time to get the same amount of stuff done.

SPEAKER_02 16:37

Yeah, and Tammy, you mentioned early on the high school perspective. And so I'd like to share from a secondary perspective that often our schedules for students are driven by, in my experience, two things sports at the end of the day. And if the olders have siblings that they need to be home for, so that they're home before their younger siblings, so that when they get home, the youngers get home, there's somebody there to take care of them. So we know this research that it's it is better if our older students go in later, but we're looking at students who have scholarships and sports and holistically, we don't want to mess. And I say we as a society don't want to mess with that, along with, well, who's gonna watch my younger child when we get in? And I think that it brings up another interesting point, too, that there are more freedoms as students get older. My middle son, for instance, had study hall at the end of the day. So he was able to leave. He had his credits. There was no sense in keeping him in the school. And so he was able to sign out. And so he would go to an afternoon work job, which was fabulous for him because he got life experience on this job and realized that that particular thing was what he did not want to do. But he would also spend time doing service projects. So he worked in the wood shop with the teacher and would be making plaques for veterans for Veterans Day. And so it kind of goes back, you're right, to what Christine was saying, and that not all learning is going to be that academic math, science, social studies, language arts, music, that type of a thing. But are they learning? And again, Naomi and Nicole brought up really good points too on what is the context and what does that quality look like? Because not all learning needs to look the same.

SPEAKER_04 18:23

Another argument that I have heard around more school is, you know, we established our year schedule with summers off when, you know, there was a lot of farm work that needed to be done, and we needed our kids to come and help us harvest the field over the summer, and we don't have that anymore. So why do we still have these long breaks over the summer? And, you know, I don't know, you guys have all been in a school in May. It doesn't seem very appealing to keep going all through summer at that point of the year. But, you know, as as Naomi brought up, the idea of, you know, the other things that school provides, and maybe if if it was let's do the same amount that we're doing, but actually across the years, so we can actually breathe and do it deeply and really intentionally rather than cram, cram, cram. You know, it might it might have a different appeal to people than just the thought of doing what we do, but for 12 months. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:22

So yeah, this is making me think too, because Tammy, I know you have some teachers that they've schools are going down to four-day work weeks. And so the days are a little bit longer, but they only go to school four days. So then thinking about like there's no room for flexibility. So that's also tricky.

SPEAKER_06 19:47

Yeah. It's I was just talking to one of those teachers yesterday, and she loves having the Friday as a day, you know, they get the three-day weekend all the time, but she does feel like it does it does feel like she's pressed during the week because she teaches all the kids art, right? So you have it's just a different kind of schedule, too. But yeah, I mean, it's an option too, and it's something that school districts have had to do when budgets are all so tight. So, you know, that's that's that's another probably popular opinion if we talk about budgeting. But anyway, we'll move on. Krista, do you want or Sheila, you were gonna say something, or do you want to share your unpopular opinion?

Intentional Time And Parkinson’s Law

SPEAKER_03 20:33

I just when you first shared your unpopular opinion. I thought originally you were going in one direction with when you had said the longer school days means more learning, meaning, like, oh, if we extend the day, the kids can learn even more stuff and we can cram and more. And right away I went to the thought of Parkinson's law where you'll get done, no matter how much time you have, you'll stretch it out to fit that period of time. And then as the conversation was going on more and more, and then you kind of end it with the going to a four-day instead of a five day and it feeling crammed, then I was thinking more of like the minimalist educator aspect of like being very intentional. Like if you have a limited amount of time, you really have to be more focused and intentional. What is the most important and not stretching it out, you know, on the flip side of the conversation here of, you know, instead of stretching it out and really going like way more into what you need to, using up because you have five days, then well, I'll just touch on it today and touch on it again tomorrow because I have more days to get it done, versus really thinking, well, what is it that's necessary and not extra stuff that I'm just throwing in because I have all this time to fill. And so that's kind of just I just kind of felt that connection of being a little bit more intentional on what exactly. As important and necessary versus just filling in the time because the time is there, which I know time is a big issue in education in general. It never seems like we have enough regardless, but I think that's why the minimalist educators such a benefit to know what exactly is important and prioritizing that. And when we get to my opinion, I'll it kind of ties into a lot of what has already been said, but I'll continue to go on a tangent. So I'm gonna stop there.

SPEAKER_06 22:31

You want to share your unpopular opinion? I can.

Joy As A Learning Necessity

SPEAKER_03 22:37

So I keep going back and forth with a couple things, but I came back to kind of what my my big heart and teaching is, and that is in joy. And I feel like an unpopular opinion is that joy is it's not a nice have. You know, it's nice to have joy in the classroom, whether it's from the students' aspect or a teacher's aspect. But my opinion is that joy is a necessity. And it's not if we, and I kind of this is where I was going with when we were talking about the time, the longer day or shorter day, is you know, it's not something, well, if we have time, we can do this because I it brings me joy, or it's something that's a fun activity that fun and joy kind of always get lumped together as the extra instead of the core piece of the learning, which goes back to the conversation about absence in the classroom, because when we show up full of joy, when we have coming from a place of feeling good, the learning multiplies, it compounds because, and if anyone here, and I believe every single one of you have, or if you're just a participant in professional development, we usually start off with some type of connector for the audience. And it's often connecting to something that's personal to them or share out something. It's that connection piece. Well, why do we want to connect? It primes our brain for learning. I know in one training that I have done, it's always I go to take out your phone, find something that brings you joy because of the work I do with joy spotting every day. It's to prime the brain for learning. Why do classrooms start with morning meetings often? It's because we want to connect and feel a sense of security and feel come from a place of something that's feeling good or our checking in with our emotions. Joy is what is going to make the learning happen in the classroom, not something that happens at the end. And with the research that joy brings and opens us up to not just a sense of feeling good, but more opportunity for creativity, more options for being more open-minded and open to others' opinions and thoughts that may be different than ours, thinking outside the box. And too often that joy piece, the fun piece, is taken away not just from the students because there's no time for it, but also from the teachers who are given scripts that this is what you teach, and you can't go off and do what you have enjoyed teaching or what your experience has been beneficial to the students. It's follow this script because we have data to collect and we all need to be on the same page at the same time and date. And you're stripping the teacher from showing up and sharing their passions and their love from what brings them joy because we want to all conform to this specific piece of information. And so I'm I'm getting a little passionate here. So I'm gonna stop and and have someone jump in here.

SPEAKER_05 25:50

I think that I mean I think that we all agree with you on this call for sure. But I think that joy can seem fluffy because people feel overloaded with how much they have going on. And it's been a hot minute since I've been a classroom teacher, since I was a school-based coach. And even then I felt a tremendous pressure to do all these things. So sometimes it feels like I don't have room for anything extra. But I think what's so important about the work that you do that other people may not know is talking about the psychology behind joy. And that when you really get into like the science behind it, then even people who feel like it's fluffy understand like deeply why it's so important. And I feel like that is something that is missing. Like Kathleen Beechboard does work in the science of hope. And so maybe what we need more of in schools is like less saying learning should be like this, you should do this, and getting into like the science behind it, the science behind the joy and hope and kindness, and that shapes why things are happening the way that they are.

SPEAKER_03 27:18

Yeah, thank you so much for adding into that, Naomi. And I agree with you. I think when from an academic standpoint, the understanding behind the psychology and the science, and I think more of I thought we were going more in that direction when there was the big talk of growth mindset, because there was a lot more talk about the brain science and the neuroplasticity of the brain and how our brains function and grow. I thought we're going to that direction. And then it seemed like, you know, that like so much in education, it was popular and then got pushed to the side and on to the next thing. But definitely when the science is understood, then it becomes, and I feel like same with a lot of social emotional learning, Chris. I know you you can attest to this, that it's not the fluff when we understand why it's just part of what you do each and every day and everything that you do, and not something extra that gets plopped on top or set aside for a half hour once a week for a little mini-lesson. That's when it is experienced and understood, but it's getting that initial into the classroom, that initial piece of experiencing it. And once you experience it, you can understand, oh, it did make a difference when we took two minutes to understand the science behind it and applied it. And Naomi, when you said, when I bring in the psychology, that is the work that I do, is that applied positive psychology. It's not just teaching, here's the science, it's here's the science, but let's actually experience it and apply it to everything that we're doing in all of our days.

SPEAKER_02 29:01

I'd like to add in the as I'm thinking too, that I love SEL integration. And I also have a huge passion for curriculum design and development. And I think we have to be careful as educators, and I'll speak from a secondary perspective that as long as we understand that it's not our joy all of the time, that it's what the students enjoy. Because I've worked with teachers on curriculum development, the written curriculum, and they're like, oh, I just love this topic so much, but it's for the students, or I love this project, but do the students and is it tied into the learning that they need? And that you've all agreed that as a group, a cohesive curriculum group or PLC that is non-negotiable for students. So instead of going rogue and being like, This is fun, this is joyful, like let's talk to the students and are they really enjoying this too? And how is it connecting? Just a quick I was working with some ELA teachers at a high school, and they have a program that is pretty strict. And so the teacher took out the hero's journey this year to sit with that. And he realized looking back, he's like, that was fun for the students. They loved connecting their own hero's journey and the steps to what they were reading. I need to bring, he said, I need to bring that back next year, no matter what. It has to be a non-negotiable because the students enjoyed it. It was part of their and it made them learn that particular piece of ELA content at a deeper level, like you've said. And so just from a secondary point of view, is it joy? And you I know you're talking a lot about joy and connecting with each other, but then also thinking about is this a fun project that you as a teacher really like, or is this something that is really adding for the students?

SPEAKER_04 30:53

Just because you were talking there about the secondary kids, I've this school year I've gone back down to the early years for the first time in a while. And my goodness, the joy is just present in the little people all the time. And my first thought with that is where does that go? Where do we lose that joy that they just come bumbling in with every morning? You know, they just have it already ready to go. But the second part is it's made it clear to me how contagious that joy is. Like I feel so much more joy when I see them come running over with their little picture that they've drawn or a story to tell me. So it's it is contagious, and we need more of that in the building, I think.

Designing For Joy And Culture

SPEAKER_03 31:36

I love what you said there on both Krista and Christine. And I think just to add to that, the joy is it? I loved how you brought up, Krista, like just because you love doing something, it shouldn't necessarily be in the classroom part of the project. But I also wanted to specify, too, that when I'm talking about joy in addition to those areas, it's also simply showing up with, and we kind of commented it before we started the podcast, in your environment. Like I know Naomi and I are huge pink lovers. So just in your space, what are you doing to bring in joy into your day? So whether it's how you decorate or don't decorate your classroom, what you have, again, going back to that intentionality of what are what's hanging up on the walls in your classroom and what's the purpose behind it. But your desk, you know, what colors are you putting on your desk? Because just that little primer of the day of like, I see behind me, you know, my Statue of Liberty, but that represents so many different things for me that brings me joy. One, because yes, I love New York City and it's my happy place, but it's also a reminder of my son, who loves as a child building Legos. And so it's made out of Legos, and so it's a reminder of him as well. That little piece primes me for whenever I come to sit down at my desk and do work. It's just that little piece of joy of like makes me feel good. So that when I show up to do the work, I'm primed for it with a hot, with an elevated positive emotion. What are we doing for our students? You know, do we have to be specific of everybody has a red folder because it's red for English? Or is it letting them have that? And I understand because I was a color-coding fiend in my classroom, everything had colors. But is there an opportunity to at least have one folder where it's bring whatever kind of folder you want from home or decorate it with your favorite things on it so that when they pull out the folder and they may dread, and I'm just gonna go to Naomi because she's our math girl, math sometimes is like that dreaded subject for so many. But if you could pull out your math folder and have some things on there that bring you joy, little stickers or decorations or things on there, it would then prime them a little bit of a feel-good for some subject that they're not looking forward to because it might be difficult or not their favorite. So, in addition to the curriculum piece of it and the activity part of it, what are we doing for both our teachers and our students to allow them to have a piece of themselves in their work environment to bring them joy? And then that can go into a whole nother subject of the culture of a school. And what are we doing to create, you know, the culture of, you know, being friendly and saying hello and hi and greeting people in the hallways to just give that ounce of joy as well? Or when opportunities do we have to share celebrations with each other of what's going well in our lives and spreading that piece that is so contagious, which leads to gratitude. The more we share what we brings us joy, we find out they're all the things that we can be grateful for. So just wanted to add that piece of the environment as well.

SPEAKER_05 34:53

For sure, feel a little bit attacked about the the color coding because as a first-grade teacher, that was 100% me reading always red, the notebook and the folder, and math should always be blue. Math is supposed to be blue, but I love this idea of like stickers and things that make you happy on it. Cause I don't know that I could like let them pick whatever folder. Like that that might be a little too far. Like, maybe that's an unpopular opinion.

SPEAKER_03 35:30

Totally, totally. And I was not only color-coded, but it had labels that went in a certain spot on the folder. Totally agree with you on that. Totally.

SPEAKER_06 35:40

Yeah, same, same. My reading was always red, math was always blue. Just made sense to me.

SPEAKER_03 35:47

Make your social studies green.

SPEAKER_06 35:49

No, science is green. Nature. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 35:52

That's that's how it was for me.

SPEAKER_05 35:53

That's I was curious if you had green there. Yeah, social studies was green for me, and science was purple.

SPEAKER_06 36:01

Oh. Okay. My social studies were.

SPEAKER_05 36:04

I think it's because science was usually last, and I really needed the folders in rainbow order. Like, I think that's it.

SPEAKER_03 36:13

No, yeah, this is this is a whole nother podcast episode, ladies, about like the color coding and the meanings behind it.

Part Two Tease And Closing

SPEAKER_04 36:22

And on that note, that's where we're gonna leave it for today. But don't worry, the conversation is far from over. In part two next week, Naomi is going to kick things off with her unpopular opinion about math, and you're not gonna want to miss that one. So if today's discussion got you thinking, please join us again for part two. And we look forward to sharing more with you then. This episode is sponsored by Plan Z Education Services, supporting educators with forward-thinking professional learning that puts both student impact and teacher wellness at the center. Driven by a vision to teach less, impact more, they help educators find purpose, prioritize what matters, and simplify their practice. Learn more at planzeducation.com.

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Thank you for listening to the Minimalist Educator Podcast. Join Christine and Tammy and guests again next time for more conversations about how to simplify and clarify the responsibilities and tasks in your role. If today's episode helped you rethink, reimagine, reduce, or realign something in your practice, share it in a comment or with a colleague. For resources and updates, visit plan zeducation dot com and subscribe to receive weekly emails. Until next time, keep it simple and stay intentional.