The Minimalist Educator Podcast
A podcast about paring down to focus on the purpose and priorities in our roles.
The Minimalist Educator Podcast
Ep 116 — What Zombie Tropes Teach Us About Calm Classrooms And Stronger Schools with Christine and Tammy
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One hidden bite can take down the whole group and schools have their own version of that problem. We bring a surprisingly practical lens to teaching and school leadership by borrowing the most common zombie genre tropes and translating them into minimalist educator strategies that protect time, attention, and teacher wellness. If you’ve ever kept a concern to yourself, swallowed a question in a meeting, or tried to power through alone, this conversation gives you a clearer, kinder path forward.
We talk about why “don’t scream” is more than a joke. Emotional contagion is real in classrooms and staff spaces, and one panicked reaction can snowball into confusion and negativity. We share how to pause, stay grounded, and choose an effective response when the next new initiative, deadline, or curveball hits, especially when students are watching how adults handle pressure.
From there, we lean into community as the ultimate survival tool. The lone hero approach is tempting, but it’s not sustainable in education or anywhere else. We explore how strong teams work, why true investment beats compliance, and how each person’s strengths can support the whole school ecosystem. We also wrestle with “movement is life” in education, balancing evidence-based practice with thoughtful timing so change is purposeful, not performative.
We end with hope as a renewable resource: small pockets of joy, relationships you look forward to, and a shared purpose that helps you keep going through the hardest seasons. Subscribe, share this with a colleague, and leave a review so more educators can teach less, impact more, and stay intentional.
Find our book The Minimalist Teacher and Your School Leadership Edit: A Minimalist Approach to Rethinking Your School's Ecosystem at the links!
Follow on Instagram @PlanZEducation and @minimalist_ed_podcast.
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Welcome And Why Zombies
SPEAKER_00Welcome to the Minimalist Educator podcast, where the focus is on a less is more approach to education. Join your hosts, Christine Arnold and Tammy Muziowski, authors of The Minimalist Teacher and your school leadership edit, a minimalist approach to rethinking your school ecosystem each week as they explore practical ways to simplify your work, sharpen your focus, and amplify what matters most so you can teach and lead with greater clarity, purpose, and joy.
SPEAKER_01Hello everyone, and welcome to this week's episode of the Minimalist Educator Podcast. How are you going today, Tammy? I am doing well, Christine. I am excited about this one today. Yes, I have been waiting to do this episode for quite a while. Listeners, this is really Tammy being very kind and letting me talk about my passion in life. Which weirdly zombies. So it's not necessarily Tammy's thing as much as it is my thing. Although there was one birthday where I requested that our friend group sit down and watch a zombie movie for my birthday. Sorry about that, Tammy. Are you are you have you recovered? You've recovered from that now?
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Yeah. And also what when we talked a few weeks ago, I was like, where should I start with like watching zombie movies? Pardon me. And the one that you had recommended, Sean. No. Sean of the Dead. Yes, Sean of the Dead. I was looking for that, couldn't find it on any of my like free spots. So I did end up watching, and I have like zero recollection of what the title was or who was even in it. But I was surprised to see that it was a show that this whoever this person was. And I'm like, oh yeah, this feels like a comfortable show. And then I was like, oh my God, I think I've seen this before. So I need to dig in, and I should have had the title ready so that I could be.
SPEAKER_01Now I'm in trained anyway. But it was a show, not a movie.
SPEAKER_04It was no, it was a movie. Okay. So I was looking at Zombieland because I had seen I have seen Zombie Land. I didn't realize there was another one. And but then it was like in that same
Zombie Tropes As Safe Scary
SPEAKER_04category. I'm like, oh, I'm gonna pick this one because I don't think I've seen it. But it turned out that I had actually seen it. So I was seeing like some of the things that we have in our notes for the show. I'm like, oh yeah, okay, I'm seeing this here. I'm seeing this here. And yeah, so I'm excited to to dive into this kind of fun parallel universe with you because there are quite a few parallels to zombie worlds and education. So this is gonna be fun.
SPEAKER_01And we can learn a lot, definitely. We can learn a lot from the from the zombie genre. So what we're gonna talk about today is the tropes of the zombie genre. So while every book, show, movie, everything has got a different storyline and different characters, there are often these very common tropes that come through. Yeah. And we have got a list here of lessons that can be learned from these tropes in zombie movies, shows, books, et cetera. And I particularly love the tropes because there's an element for me of it's scary, but it's also safe. Because you know these tropes are there, it's predictable, you can guess what's going to happen. It provides this like lovely little nook where you could be a bit scared, but you're also comfortable as well because you kind of know what's going to happen. So that's one thing that I really love about the zombie genre. Every now and then you get a surprise, but most of the time there is a level of predictability there. So that's what we're going to focus on today. So,
The Hidden Bite In Schools
SPEAKER_01first one I want to start with, Tammy, is the hidden bite. The hidden bite. There is always in the zombie genre, there is always a character who gets bitten and attempts to hide it from everybody else, right? So it might be like under the sleeve or under the roll neck sweater or on the leg somewhere, and you know, they kind of grimace every now and then. So the audience knows that they've been hurt, but the rest of the group does not know that they're that they're uh that they've been bitten. So what can we learn from this? And I think this is a really good one to start with because it does make us think about if you have got a problem, don't try and hide it. Don't put it away and pretend it's not happening. Because actually, if we all do it together, it's a shared problem, it's something that we can work out what the best plan of action is. And you're not going to put anyone in danger of having some awful reaction later if you share this issue and this problem. Because if you leave it alone and not tell anyone, it could turn into a very dangerous situation for everyone around. Any thoughts about that first trope, Tammy?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I agree with you. I think a lot of times we get into our little silos, right? And so we think that we might be the only person having this issue or having this concern, or or even like at faculty meetings or when you're in spaces where you're in a group setting with other educators and you want to ask a question, but you don't want to sound like the dum-dum. So, you know, like it reminds me of that. Like you kind of sit back and just wait to see what happens and to see if someone else is gonna ask a question or to see if someone else comes to you with the problem. But this is such a good opportunity to ask for help because I mean, if you hide your bite, it's just gonna fester, like it gets infected and it becomes this big thing, and probably it doesn't need to turn into something that it's not. So I mean, in with the zombie bites, it's inevitable. But in our case, right, the the little bite that we have or the thing like it doesn't need to become the infected thing. Exactly. Like it doesn't have to fester, it doesn't have to eat at us all the time. We can talk to each other about things. And that's kind of one of the positives of social media, I think, right now, is that yes, there's like lots of noise out there, but you will find someone who's in a similar role or situation as you, and they'll be talking about it on their channels or on their reels or whatever. And so even finding a connection that way, if even if it's not someone directly in your context yet, there's someone you can connect to and be like, oh, that person has bite too. So I'm not the only one here. But certainly that's it's a good one.
SPEAKER_01And you know, I think often what happens with these characters is they hide the bite because they're scared of what can happen, scared of either being, you know, ostracized from the group, kicked out, or turning into a zombie or whatever. So they kind of just ignore the problem. But, you know, ignoring that problem is never actually going to make it go away, is it? Like that bite is still there. So yeah, I think it's a it's a good, yeah, a good metaphor for education.
SPEAKER_04I think so too, because there's so many things that we could ignore and that we can ignore, right? There are some things that we're like, that's not a battle that I need to pay attention to, at least right now. So it's kind of like, how big is the bite, maybe? Is it like is it festering or is it just there and you know it's just a little mark? So I think kind of doing an evaluation to see two, like, because we can't not everything needs to be the big battle or the big problem, but we can't always ignore those things either.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. Exactly. Okay,
Panic Spreads Faster Than Zombies
SPEAKER_01the next one I want to share with you is there is often a moment in in the zombies, not the zombies, but the zombie genre, where someone really panics and they scream, and then it just makes everything worse because now all the zombies know where they are, they're aware that there are people, and they're going straightly, straight directly for that group. So what I wanted to share with this trope is that idea that emotions are very contagious, and that actually, if we can stay calm and stay grounded and try and be as level-headed as we can in these situations, that we're actually going to be helping not just ourselves, but everyone else around us. Because as soon as that scream scream goes out, there's no pulling it back in, right? And then that that's dangerous for everybody.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, this feels so relatable. I just I just remember feeling like, especially teaching in New York, where there's just, you know, so many people, so many students, big districts, so many things happening all at the same time, and you're trying to keep track of what's going on, and then people, you know, you learn about this thing that you have to do, and everybody gets like overly emotionally involved in it because it's like, oh, it's another thing we have to do, and you just it snowballs. And so that definitely feels like I've been in that situation where I just let my emotions take over and be like, oh my god, this is like another thing, and blah blah blah, and just it becomes so negative. And really, it's hard to not do that, right? Like we just we do have emotional responses to things, especially when you're in that kind of thing all the time. Like you're just your emotions are heightened, and so everybody's gonna scream, and because you know, like group think and group action and and that contagion. And but if we just kind of pause, right? And and even though things are coming at us fast, just saying I'm recognizing this, I'm not going to scream yet, maybe into my pillow later, or you know, have some kind of something later, but in this moment, what is going to be the effective thing for me? What's my effective response to this? Because the scream is putting everybody in danger and it doesn't solve any problems. And yes, like we need that emotional response, but like we we have to be mindful of how we're handling things, especially when we're in front of young people who see how we react to things. And so if they just see the constant heightened emotion about whatever it is, then they will mirror that. And if we flip to the other side and just think about things as logically as we can in a heightened emotional state, we're all in a better place, we're all a little safer, hopefully, anyway. That's it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, yeah, that is one of the tiring sides of of being in education is that you're always having to maintain your emotional regulation at all times. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, if we all if we all scream or we all yell or we all cry or we, you know, all of those big emotional releases that that can sometimes feel necessary. But if we all do it, it really doesn't make it a a nice place for us to be in for each other as colleagues or for the students. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. And it just feels it ends up feeling confusing because a lot of times people don't even know why they're reacting that way. It's just because someone else did. And right. So one person having this heightened emotional reaction doesn't mean that the next people know what's actually happening. They just see fear. And so they get scared. And that's like we can't operate from a place where it's so charged like that. So the zombies will get you.
SPEAKER_03Sure will.
SPEAKER_01Oh dear. I
Community Beats The Lone Hero
SPEAKER_01think a good one to follow on from that is the idea in these movies and TV shows and books as well, is that idea of community. Because over and over again, you see characters when they band together and look after each other, they've got a higher chance of survival. There's always someone who wants to, you know, go off on their own. The lone hero, the lone survivor who's like, I can do this, I'm better off on my own, and off they go. It never ends well for those characters. No. Usually, usually there's there's yeah, that's a big problem for them. And they people do a lot better off when they are working within a community. They cover each other's backs, they help support each other, they're better together. You know, it's not just the one-on-one-off individual sacrifices that are happening. That's not sustainable for the community. And I think this is another a really good one, as well as the one scream and everyone gets in danger. But the idea of working together makes us all better. It creates a situation in which we are able to survive for longer at school as well as in the zombie movies. So I think that's another really good one as well.
SPEAKER_04I agree. And I think it it can remind us that like you can still see individuals in groups, right? So even though you're trying to do things as a community or collaborate, you still can see who's the individual in the group. And that I mean, obviously we all are, but you can see the difference when someone is going to go off and be like, I'm gonna try to handle this on my own, versus the people who are like, no, we're gonna stick together because we know like this is the plan and we know that this plan is gonna work. But there's there's always gonna be somebody that thinks my idea is better. Oh, I'm gonna do this myself and be the hero. And usually the they're done. Usually, right? Yeah. Not saying that is a direct relation to or connection to education, but you you do feel that sense in groups sometimes where, and it's not even about like people having different ideas or or you know, because we all have different opinions, ideas about things, and that's fine. But you can feel the difference between a true collective, like we are doing this together, we are committed to this, versus I'm not really buying into that type of mindset. And so, like, that's that's why often like we don't even really use the words buy-in because we don't want someone to buy into something. We want them to believe in it, we want them to invest in something, their time and energy because they really believe that it's going to work and benefit the collective because that's how we become better. That's how our whole community prospers. So, yeah, that's that's a kind of a tricky one. Because you can feel too like, do I want to buy into this community thing? Right? Because I don't know if it's gonna work either. And so there is that feeling of uncertainty, or there can be. There can be anyway.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. And especially, yeah, let's push this metaphor even further. Especially if you are someone who has been a part of many different groups trying to survive the zombie apocalypse, and each one has fallen. Everyone, each one has turned into a problem or you know, some horrible situation. And then the next one that you land in, while it might seem good at first, you probably have a lot of skepticism because of all of your past experiences. So I think that's that's another one as well. But what you were saying there about the individuals within the community, I think that's so true in education too, because in these survivor groups, everyone has a different role, right? So you have some people who, you know, really good at fighting, so they're out there doing their thing. And then you have you might have some people who are builders and so they're helping to build the camp or build the town or wherever you're sheltering. And then you've got other people who might, you know, have a science STEM background and they're working out and trying to work out a cure, you know. So everyone has a different role to play, and that is so true in our schools as well. Like, yes, we're better together, but everyone has their own unique strengths and things that they can contribute to that community to make it work. Because if we're all doing just one job the same way, it doesn't work as well.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah, very true. Very true. We all need to play the part, play our parts.
SPEAKER_01That's it. I don't think I don't I've always wondered what my part would be if there was a zombie apocalypse. I'm not quite sure how I would contribute, really. But anyway, how would you contribute, Dummy?
SPEAKER_04Well, I don't it's a good question, but I can see you being the person who is trying to contain the screams. Like let's all let's all like kind of the emotional regulator ups in. Let's breathe. Let's just yeah, let's find out what all of the what all is happening, let's see all angles from this, let's think about our option. I can see you being that person.
SPEAKER_01Well, that's nice of you to say. I was thinking I might just be looking after the kids, any kids that are still surviving. I mean that too, but yeah, yeah. You could you could help keep us all fit, Tammy. You could lead the morning exercises in the survival camp and we'd all stay healthy and ready for action. That'd be good.
SPEAKER_04I mean, yeah, I mean, I I'll do what I can. I think the knowing that zombies are gonna be running after you, if they're the fast ones, that's motivation enough to like want to stay fit. So exactly. I mean, my my role might be moop.
unknownI don't know.
SPEAKER_01Oh dear. Oh goodness.
Movement Is Life In Education
SPEAKER_01Okay, so the next one that we've got here is the idea of sticking with familiar patterns actually becomes a dangerous path. And the one that always comes out at me when I think about this, I don't know if our listeners have watched World War Z, but I know you have, Tammy, is there's a part in that movie where Brad Pitt's family shelters with another family. And Brad Pitt is saying to them, like, let's leave tomorrow, like, let's all go together, let's keep moving. And the father of the other family is like, no, no, no, we're we're fine here, we're gonna stay put. And Brad Pitt says to the father, movement is life. And so he's using his experience of his past experiences in life and his work, I think, for that character, to say, you can't, you can't stay put. You've got to keep moving. Movement is life. And I think that's that's another one too, is if you stay too long in a in a position that's maybe not safe, that's a bit dangerous, that's you know, vulnerable in these uh zombie movies, then you know that becomes something that's not healthy, it's not good for you. And so you do need to kind of keep moving. And I think that's very true in education too.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, this is uh this is a kind of a tricky one because uh I think about uh there are certain things that uh we benefit from continuing to do. Right. Like we can we must teach children in a way that they learn as backed by research. Yeah. Right? Like we have to teach evidence-based ways. Preferably. So we must keep that, yes. But things as we know trend and they cycle and so and they get renamed. And so sometimes the familiar just kind of changes form and becomes like a newly named thing and is like a version 2.0 or 5.0 or 25.0, who knows, right? And I I think that's a good thing because we that means we are thinking about the patterns that we're potentially stuck in and we're re researching and revisiting and revising and saying this is still great, but we have to think a little bit more about this because this is the generation that's in school right now and this is what they're going to be facing. And so I think that that is super important. I think the danger in that is like do we overdo that sometimes like are we looking for things that don't need to be changed? And I can't even think of an example right now but just moving for the sake of moving rather than it's right.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Yeah. Like are we taking into consideration the right time to move? Like we know we gotta move but is now the right time and timing can be tricky in both worlds. But yeah, I don't know that's I don't know if there's an answer for that one, right?
SPEAKER_01Like no no but I think you know if you've got a character that's just scared to move and so it's just like no this is what I'm familiar with. This is what I feel safe with and I refuse to move that's going to become a problem more than someone who is you know taking the time to think about it, think about the timing. Do we have everything we need? Do I have my survival kit? You know, that sort of thing is a is a different is a different you know doing it with thought reflection yeah is important. Not moving for the sake of moving or just getting stuck because it's what's familiar.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Oh yeah and there's definitely stuck in this with some things. Yes we there's there's definitely some stuck which is it is a dangerous place because then you will be found eventually.
SPEAKER_03Yeah in both lands. Yep.
SPEAKER_04Yes definitely yeah being the stuck one just has like so many levels of fear attached to it too right like this is the the person who is just potentially resisting to resist or the person that doesn't know what to do for other reasons.
SPEAKER_01So or the unknown is just the unknown is just so scary.
SPEAKER_04It's just so much that they can't deal with the thought of it yeah yeah just it's like being frozen almost yeah I mean and then the then in those moments too it's feelings of overwhelm because you're like literally just don't know you know kind of what you have to do to survive but you're like you don't know if you should do it or what's gonna happen. So it can be it can be slightly terrifying.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
Hope And Joy As Fuel
SPEAKER_01All right which leads me to my final trope for today which is yes hope as a renewable resource. So in all of these all of these books and shows and movies everyone keeps hoping that things will get better that they'll find a safe place that there'll be a cure that the zombies will die out you know there's always hope that the situation will improve and it's through finding things like you know the characters might find joy in their relationships with each other. It could be you know that they've they feel like they've got this purpose you know we're thinking about creating a world for the future like if there are still kids around after the zombie apocalypse like what is the world going to be like for them we've got to hope for this for this better future for them. So I think that's that's a really a really lovely one I think is that we can always find even if the world seems crazy and things are not okay we can always find these moments of joy and hope and and feeling like it can get better. It can get better for everybody.
SPEAKER_04Yeah yeah yeah there's always that sense of like tomorrow isn't going to be the same as it was today because we've been through all of this together and now we are going to move forward knowing what we know, doing what we've done and I think that really solidifies so many relationships because you have been through so much together and you find such a strong sense of purpose after doing something really hard. And I know many of us through our careers have, you know, some years you just they just go by like a regular school year with it's right with the regular ups and downs, you know, but there are some years that are just really hard for whatever reason. And the more you lean into each other the easier it is to just be there. Right. And so it even just having those relationships helps you like that's why if if those people are the reason why you look forward to going to your job the next day then that's your source of joy right like that's great. Because we all need something or someone to to be in the space where we're like I'm so excited to see so and so tomorrow. I can't wait to tell them this and we all need that because when we start to feel like we don't have that it's really so much harder to go to a spot where you're like I there's no where are my moments of joy where are the the pockets of hope. So we all need to have that in the places that we we work.
SPEAKER_01Yeah we do yeah because it yeah we can feel very motivated by the mission that we're working towards or improving things. But at the end of the day if you have that mission and purpose in your work if you don't have anyone to talk about it with or enjoy it with it doesn't mean quite as much does it so yeah exactly exactly this is I really liked this conversation.
SPEAKER_04I'm glad I'm glad I wasn't torturing you too much with my zombies no no not at all not at all and yeah as we were talking to I was thinking about the movie that I watched still don't remember the title but I was seeing different pockets of like these tropes happening in that movie where it's like there goes the girl on her own thinking she can like do this herself. But yeah so it's a world that you know it we use it as an escape mechanism right like we like to walk watch the fictional worlds but it does really parallel the space that we're in in education and it's kind of interesting to just talk through some of some of the tropes. So yeah this is fun.
SPEAKER_01That's it yeah absolutely well I'm glad you could join with me in my enjoyment of the zombie genre today.
Pear Down Pointers And Mindsets
SPEAKER_04Yes absolutely so I'm gonna ask you though do you have a pair down pointer?
SPEAKER_01So I think just going back to the the lone hero I think there is often a character who might have experienced so many awful things so much loss that they end up just going well I'm just gonna go it alone I'm just gonna do this by myself because it hurts too much to continue being around people. But then there's always that like story arc where they realize actually no it is better to be around people like it does feel nicer to be a part of a community and have those relationships. So I think my pear down pointer would be you know let let go of some of those hurts that we might have experienced and keep looking for that community and for those relationships to connect to because it does make it does make the work so much more lovely to go on with than just trying to battle battle it all on your own.
SPEAKER_04Yeah yeah I agree and so I think mine would is related to yours is just find those moments of hope and joy in your day or even you know the day the night before you know you're going to your workplace think about it before you go to bed so that it kind of sits in your mind as you are resting and then when you wake up in the morning you feel like okay I'm excited to go and see these people and be around people that I enjoy being around and you know teach the kids that I love teaching. So yeah I think those are good points. Good ones.
Sponsor, Resources, And Closing
SPEAKER_01All right this episode is sponsored by Plan Z Education Services supporting educators with forward thinking professional learning that puts both student impact and teacher wellness at the center. Driven by a vision to teach less, impact more, they help educators find purpose, prioritize what matters and simplify their practice. Learn more at planzeducation Thank you for listening to the Minimalist Educator Podcast.
SPEAKER_00Join Christine and Tammy and guests again next time for more conversations about how to simplify and clarify the responsibilities and tasks in your role. If today's episode helped you rethink, reimagine, reduce or realign something in your practice, share it in a comment or with a colleague. For resources and updates, visit planzeducation.com and subscribe to receive weekly emails. Until next time, keep it simple and stay intentional
