Nip in the Bud® Podcast - The children's mental health health charity

Nip in the Bud with Lisa Tills - How ADHD and ADD impacted on my life as a parent and an educator.

• Nip in the Bud Children's Mental Charity

Share episode

In today's episode, we  talk about supporting children with Special educational needs with a focus on ADHD and ADD  with Lisa Tills. Lisa has worked in primary schools supporting and educating children for over 20 years.

She has been a teaching assistant, a higher level teaching assistant, a tutor and a supervisor. In her time in schools she has taught whole classes, as well as intervention strategies to groups and 1-2-1 sessions with individual children. She has taught all subjects on the curriculum but has particularly enjoyed her time supporting children who may be struggling within the education system and need extra nurture, care and targeted attention to be happy and confident in school in order to reach their full potential.

Lisa is also a mother of a son who has ADHD. Her son is now in his early 30s so as a family they have come through the UK school system at a time when not much was known about neurodivergent conditions.

ADHD, or Attention Deficit and Hyperactivity Disorder, can present in many ways in children, which can sometimes make it difficult for teachers and parents to spot the signs. It is characterised by difficulties in the areas of attention, level of activity and impulse control.

This is a fantastic episode for support staff in schools in particular, it will give you ideas and confidence to be the ears and eyes on the ground for the children you support and care for.

She talks about the importance of pre-teaching, building relationships and allowing children to have a voice, feel safe and really understand what is going on. She works hard to ensure the children she works with feel valued and individual.

As a mother she shares her belief that academic success is not everything. It is key to also teach functional skills and  social skills because as an adult these are vital for building relationships and organising your life.  

She talks about the need to have resources ready and an effective learning environment. Also accessible work and good communication between support staff and the teacher they work with.

Nip in the Bud - Where to get help

https://nipinthebud.org/where-to-get-help/




00:00:00.411 - Lisa

That's so important for me, to make sure that they feel a valued member of the classroom and that they're listened to and that they have a voice. I think it's so important for everyone to be listened to and I try to make them feel, you know, sort of really empowered and in control of their learning. I say, look, if I'm teaching you in a way that you're not understanding, that's not your fault. Tell me and I will adapt the way that I teach you.



00:00:25.411 - Alis 

Nip in the Bud is a charity that works to support children's mental health by working with mental health professionals of the highest standing, producing free, short, evidence-based films, podcasts and fact sheets to help parents, educationalists and others working with children to recognise potential mental health conditions. In today's episode, we will be talking about supporting children with special educational needs with a focus on ADHD and ADD with Lisa Tills. Lisa has worked in primary schools supporting and educating children for over 20 years, so has a wealth of knowledge. She's been a teaching assistant, a higher level teaching assistant, a tutor and a supervisor. In her time in schools, she has taught whole classes as well as intervention strategies to groups and one to one sessions with individual children. She's taught all subjects on the curriculum, but has particularly enjoyed her time supporting children who may be struggling with the education system and need extra nurture, care and targeted attention to be happy and confident in school in order to reach their full potential. Lisa is also a mother of a son who has ADHD. Her son is now in his early 30s, so as a family they have come through the UK school system at a time when not much was known about neurodivergent conditions. ADHD, or Attention Deficit and Hyperactivity Disorder, can present in many ways in children, which can sometimes make it difficult for teachers and parents to spot the signs. It is characterised by difficulties in the areas of attention, level of activity and impulse control. These difficulties can be present before the age of seven and can affect many areas of the child's and the family's life. It's sometimes called Hyperkinetic Disorder and it's also at times referred to as Attention Deficit Disorder or ADD. Lisa's going to speak to us about her lived experiences, what she has seen and done, both as a parent and an educator, and share any thoughts or tips with us for supporting children and young people with ADHD. So make sure to listen to the end for her advice and ideas. Hi Lisa and welcome. Can you tell us a little bit about why you chose to work with children in schools. Is this something that you've always done or wanted to do?



00:03:06.491 - Lisa

Hi, Alis. I went into schools when my own children were kind of getting to that school age, and it was something that I did as I started watching them develop and then just became really interested in child development. So it seemed like the natural place for me to be, really.



00:03:23.621 - Alis

And how did you first get involved in helping children with special educational needs as part of your job?



00:03:29.681 - Lisa

Yeah, it was kind of like a natural process for me, really. So being in schools, I started off just being in classrooms and helping out the teacher and doing those things, and then gradually I really felt this need to actually help out the children that I could see had more of a need and there seemed to be gaps for me that the teachers, through no fault of their own, weren't able to spot or to fill. So I started to become really interested in the children that had special educational needs that way, really.



00:04:06.991 - Alis

Do you see any differences now? So you're still working in schools, and as I said in the intro, it's been over 20 years. Can you see any differences in schools with regards to how we support children with special educational needs?



00:04:21.681 - Lisa

That's such an interesting question, because I think when I started over 20 years ago, there didn't seem to be an awareness about special educational needs and then gradually that awareness seemed to become more obvious that the teachers would make more provision. But then, sadly, I would say in the latter couple of years, I've noticed that has kind of fallen away again and I think, especially since COVID, that there seems to be, I don't know if it's less awareness, but I think the pressures on staffing at schools seems to have increased greatly. So there does seem to be a need more than ever, I think, for someone to be the voice for children that have special educational needs.



00:05:09.651 - Alis

And what tips might you have for other educationalists? Maybe support staff with regards to helping those children now?



00:05:17.861 - Lisa

As a support staff member of staff, you're kind of like the eyes and ears really on the ground. So I think you're a lot more able to notice. So I think it is about, I try not to worry so much about the planning and the marking that the teachers have to do. I appreciate that, but I also think that it's my job to really look out for the child and the children that have these additional needs. I think certainly making sure that there is the work that is accessible, for them to do, and making sure that all the equipment around them that they need and that they've got all the resources that they need. I think that's so important, like I say, and being their ears and their eyes, really, and sort of seeing an environment for what it is and making sure that they have got everything that they need to be able to access what the class teacher is doing for the rest of the children. That's so important for me to make sure that they feel a valued member of the classroom and that they're listened to and that they have a voice. I think it's so important for everyone to be listened to, and sometimes these children are the ones that are not listened to. But I can see that's not the teacher's fault. Sometimes it's just the way that the classroom is set up and arranged.



00:06:39.311 - Alis

Are there any things that you would suggest is helpful in setting up a classroom and arranging it so that it's more accessible to everyone?



00:06:49.331 - Lisa

Yeah, so I think they're all little things, but I think when you put them all together, it has a huge impact on a child. I think my years have taught me that it's thinking about where the child is placed. Sometimes the front is the right place for them to be, or a particular place in the classroom is the right place for them to be. But I think we have to think about their mental well-being as well. Making sure that they're comfortable, making sure that they know what they're doing. We all like to know what we're doing, and I think it's really important for them to see it in a way that's accessible for them. I think making sure, like I say, that they've got the resources. I think it's important that I know as well so that I can almost do some sort of pre-teaching and just let them know what's coming so they don't feel anxious about that and I think relationships is a huge one as well. Building relationships with children is crucial because if a child feels safe with you, then they are more likely to relax and to feel happy. And then I think that opens the doors for them with the aspect of learning. So I would say being prepared so that, you know the lessons that are coming and you know, the activities that are coming as well. So maybe seeing the weekly plans ahead of what's going on, talk to them about what the week is going to look like, taking time every morning to check in with them, see how they are, but not always talking about schoolwork. I think it's nice to talk about other things and then that way you do form a relationship with them and like I say, that has always really worked for me and it's something that comes natural to me. It's knowing them as children and as whole, rounded individuals. So it's about being prepared. It's about having a relationship with them so that they feel safe, valued. And that's when I think then the learning can happen.



00:08:50.171 - Alis

That sounds so sensible, and as you say, it can be the little things that can make such a difference. Have you got any examples where you can see that putting those things into place, building those relationships, has made a difference to a child?



00:09:09.391 - Lisa

Yeah. There are so many children that I've worked with over the years that might have presented as being awkward, difficult, not ready to learn, not ready to access that curriculum at a certain level. But I think what I tend to do is when I'm first working with a child, my main priority...... So there was one child I was working with, and my main priority was just to get to know that child, first of all and I think children with additional needs, like I say, can present in all manner of ways. But this particular child was quite a challenge in the classroom and was finding it really difficult to settle and would distract others. So I started working with this child and I kind of like started by talking to them, but not just me talking. I would let them talk and I would listen. I think that was really vital as well. So I think sometimes as practitioners, we think that we've got to do all the talking. But I think my years of experience have taught me it's just as important, if not more important, to listen to what children are saying or sometimes even their body language, or the way they behave. Little tiny things that can tell you so much about a child that maybe hasn't got the words to express their feelings. My first priority was to grow a relationship, but a two-way relationship as well. And I started to do that and it's not always easy, sometimes you feel that you're getting to know someone, so you really feel like you can tap into what they need rather than what you think they need. And sometimes you can have days or weeks when you think, oh, this isn't going very well, we haven't made a lot of ground here, but I think it's continuing. You're in it for the long haul. This isn't a short trip. You're in it for the whole of the year and sometimes more than that, depending on where they are. So I think I built the relationship and then gradually I was able to work out the little things that were going wrong. So this child was really cross because they just felt as if they didn't know what was happening in the class and actually they didn't understand. So some of the work that was being set, they just didn't understand it. They just didn't know. They didn't have the vocabulary. So although their reading was at quite a good level, they didn't have the understanding and that's where the frustration was. I don't think that child would have expressed that, though, because the results were coming out that the reading was on track, the comprehension was on track. But actually, I think this child was just somehow masking the fact that they really didn't have that understanding. And as the work was getting progressively harder, they felt as if they were getting behind, which then meant that they were just feeling like giving up. It was tapping into that, making sure that I could do the pre-teaching, have resources there, make sure that there were actually, you know, that he was reading books that were more at his level so that he could understand them. It was then engaging in that enjoyment of, well, look, we read books so that we understand them, not just so that we can read words out.



00:12:47.671 - Alis

We'll pass a test.



00:12:49.751 - Lisa

Exactly. Just doing things for a test is ridiculous when you think about it. We have to teach children to be adaptable rather than just remember things. Nowadays, the world is a very different place to when I started in education, sort of 20 odd years ago, and it was just those small changes. And as the trust grew between us, this child didn't think that I was going to judge him because he could literally come to me and say, but I don't understand this, or I would be able to think, you're not going to understand this, not in a negative way, but in a respectful way. So let's talk about it and then you can actually attempt the piece of work. And I think when a child does then start producing work that they're proud of, that's when you start to see real progress, because then they know what it feels like. And so many children with additional needs will say, no, I'm no good at that, I'm rubbish at that. And I sort of say to them, but it's not that you're rubbish at it, it's not that you don't like it, you don't like the way it makes you feel, but the actual subject here you can be brilliant at, so let's find a way. And again, I try to make them feel really empowered and in control of their learning. I say, look, if I'm teaching you in a way that you're not understanding, that's not your fault. Tell me and I will adapt the way that I teach you. I think that then makes them think, oh, there is going to be a way that we can get through this. So with this particular child, we made some changes. We made sure that we had the right resources, we made sure that the work was accessible for them, and then having the communication with the class teacher as well, and helping the class teacher to get the right resources, which was all fundamentally, I felt, built on that investment in a relationship. I think, that is so important.



00:14:42.251 - Alis

Thanks for sharing that and I think you really clarified the importance of it being two-way and it being trust and it was only once that child really trusted you that they could talk to you about the things that they were having most difficulties with. We're just going to have a think about ADHD or ADD now. So what you've talked about so far has been generally with children. What's your understanding of ADHD, both as a parent of a son with ADHD and as an educator?



00:15:17.271 - Lisa

Yeah, I think it's interesting. As a parent of a child with ADD, it's extremely challenging. And in a classroom, I think the only difference with being a parent with ADD is that you can't sort of walk away at 3:30 and the day is over and I've seen a whole bigger side. So as my child now is in his thirties, I see it continuing, whereas I think in education we just tend to see it between a few hours.



00:15:51.431 - Alis

What sorts of things do you see? What would you say are sort of key things that might help somebody recognise ADHD, working with children?



00:16:01.721 - Lisa

It's the lack of being able to concentrate on a task for a prolonged period of time. I mean, certainly my son, I always thought academically he did very well at school because the pace was quick and he was always able to shift and move and adapt from one thing to another really quickly. As he got older, that then became problematic because that was all he could do. He didn't have the ability to focus on anything for very long. So as he's gone through life, he has trouble maintaining friendships, maintaining relationships, maintaining employment. He genuinely can't do it. Through spotting what I spotted with my son, I can spot sometimes the way that children are disorganised, maybe have trouble keeping track of where things are. Maybe in a classroom, they are the children that quickly just become, they just quickly fall off task. So these are the children then that in a classroom environment are the ones that you can sometimes think, oh, they're always the ones that are being disruptive, disrupting others that can't sit still, that are always the fidgeters, always the ones that will kind of, like, have lots of energy, or the ones that will just sit down and not have energy, but then will just be staring out the window. And I think through having my own child, I seem to be able to tap into those children in a school environment that are struggling with their attention.



00:17:39.971 - Alis

What sort of changes could teachers make or TAs make within the classroom that would help? If they see a child fidgeting or squirming, falling off of a task, as you said, or those being disorganized, those types of things, what changes would you suggest, and have you tried, that have worked?



00:18:00.951 - Lisa

Yes, I think there are so many, again, so many small things that you can do. So I think keeping tasks really short, and if you can say it in a few words, say it in a few words. Sometimes children with ADD just need to hear what they've got to do and it being very sort of clear, short tasks. I think making sure that they have a break so that they can have a brain break, maybe. Whether it be in class or sometimes even going outside or just going for a walk can really help them.



00:18:38.571 - Alis

So having a brain break, just tell us a bit about what a brain break is.



00:18:40.251 - Lisa

So a brain break can be really helpful. I mean, we've got a child at the moment that's in the class that I can think of who started off just absolutely, like you say, falling off their chair, fidgeting, tapping, flicking, kicking, talking, turning around, all those things that when you're trying to teach a lesson, can be really quite distractive, not just for you as an adult, but for children around them as well. So at first we started talking to him and said, look, when you feel like this, you can give us a sign. And we had just like a little sticker that he could turn it over. And we said, you just turn it over and that will then be, so you don't even have to call out, that will then be when you show us that sticker, what you can do is you can walk out of classroom and you can walk up and down the corridor, and you can do that three times and then you come back in. It's a big school, so it's a long corridor. So they started to do that and then when they'd come in, at first there was a little bit of, oh, look, I'm back in the class. But we sort of spoke to them, so we positioned them in a place of the classroom, not necessarily at the front, but just so they could walk in and just discreetly walk alongside the other children so they didn't disrupt them. And eventually what he's learnt to do now is he will, without even sort of being told, oh, you need a brain break or turn your sticker over, you need some time out, basically. He will now do that and he is now managing that himself. So as he transitions throughout the school and then onto secondary school, hopefully that is something that he will be able to continue, which, if you think about it as adults, sometimes if we're in meetings or something, we might just think, oh, do you know what? I just need a minute, I just need to clear my head for a second. And I think it's the equivalent of that.



00:20:31.441 - Alis

I love the way that you've got to the point with this child where they are in the driving seat of that, they're in control and feel trusted again. We're coming back to that word, trust.



00:20:41.921 - Lisa

Yeah. So important.



00:20:43.461 - Alis

 To be able to take themselves off. Yeah.



00:20:46.031 -  Lisa

And to feel that they are in control and when they need it, they can have it, because there can be nothing more, sort of, disturbing for them to feel that they need to do something but they can't do it. And I always think, as adults, we wouldn't like that, so why expect children to do it?



00:21:03.511 - Alis

What about rules? I'm just aware that in schools they're full of rules. Now is the time to take break, now this is where you queue up for your lunchtime food, this is where you queue up on the playground. There's lots of different rules. How do you help children with ADHD cope with times like that, where these rules come in, so they're not seen as maybe different or exceptional from the rules. How does that work?



00:21:32.431 - Lisa

I find this to be one of the trickiest because I always say to other children, I'm giving this child what they need, not necessarily what they want, because I truly believe that because sometimes with all the will in the world, a child might be having a particularly bad day. I mean, I had an incident only a couple of days ago where the child was really finding it difficult to follow rules within a game that they were playing. And because of that, the other children got frustrated and this child kind of walked off, was really upset and just took themselves away and just needed some time out. But the place that this child decided he needed time out was a place that other children wanted to go to. It was a slide and this child literally blocked up the whole slide. And what we just had to say, I just reassured the child, I said, look, I can see how you're feeling, I'm going to give you some time. I think time is key. But then the other children were getting frustrated, and I think it's explaining to them that, look, this is what this child needs at the moment, and it's not necessarily what they want, it's what they need. So sometimes it's about educating the other children. And I do understand that can be easier when the child is older. So this child was a year six child, so it is easier for the other children to have understanding of that. So sometimes it is a matter of educating the other children around them, because as in all walks of life, we're not always going to be able to do exactly the same. In my opinion, it can't always be black and white, there is always a little bit of grey.



00:23:23.111 - Alis

What I'm hearing you say is that we need to be flexible with those rules. Yes, rules serve a purpose and they should be there. But actually, if we're looking at the individual and something that keeps coming out from what you're saying is that you see these children as individuals rather than just en masse and giving the child what they need in that moment.



00:23:43.021 - Lisa 

I always kind of bring it back to the square peg and the round hole. You just can't keep bashing away. Sometimes you have to be able to change the shape of your hole. These are children. These are little adults, and they need to feel valued and they need to feel listened to. They need to trust. And eventually, then you can build that trust with them. You have to work with them. We can't expect everyone to change and fall in line. I mean, sometimes some children have said, but why do we have to do that? And I can honestly say as an adult working in education for over 20 years, I sort of say to them, I don't know. I don't know why this rule is here. So let's do it this way. And I'll explain to everyone else, because I think if you have a child at school who is happy, who feels valued, that is when you get the best out of children.



00:24:43.211 - Alis

I agree. Lisa, as a mother of a son with ADD, can we hear a little bit about your own story? When did you first begin to notice behaviours that struck you as different?



00:24:59.711 - Lisa

I mean, he was my first child, so when he started school, I kind of thought he was a little bit different. But this was like, you know, he's in his thirties now, so this was a long time ago. So the profile wasn't as high as it is now. Not at all, in fact. And he was naughty, he had lots of energy, he would find it difficult to conform, really. If he wanted to do something, he just wanted to do it. But I just thought he was ,you know, people say, oh, he's very spirited. When he went to school, and straight away, obviously teachers having the experience they do, straightaway sort of spotted something slightly different. He went through his primary education, coping really well, actually. Like I say, he's got a very good memory and he flew through of all his tests and things like that. It was more the social side, I would say that then ,as I started going through my educational journey, then I started to spot different little things that were worrying me. So it was the organisation, it was his friendship groups. The focus at the time, sort of back in the 90s, it was academic success that seemed to be what was the main focus. And he always did really well. So he went right through, he got GCSEs, A-levels, and then went to university. And then, it was when he went to university that things really started to become apparent. Once all the structures and all that kind of scaffolding was taken away, that school provided him with and the routines, once he had to organise himself, that's when really, it became really difficult. And sadly, he did move away for university,  he moved back really quickly because it became apparent that he just wasn't happy there, so he moved back.



00:27:17.291 - Alis

Can I just pause you there? You say he did well at school, academically. What do you think that schools could have done better, in hindsight, with regards to the things that eventually drove him back home from uni? So those organisation skills, the social skills, is there anything that schools could have put in place earlier? And do you think they're happening now?



00:27:45.671 - Lisa

I'm only in primary education. Looking at my practice, I try to be the person that I wish my son would have had in his secondary school. So someone there who could look at his social skills and his organisational skills and someone that knew him well enough to spot the little things, someone maybe who specialised in ADD, someone who could see that actually this is what the problem was, because, like I said, because academically he did well. He had me at home who was organising everything for him, but there would have been times during the day, and I know there were because he was always in trouble for it, when he wouldn't have the right thing, he wouldn't be able to hand a piece of work in on time. He would constantly be, being distracted. His time management was dreadful. And had there have been anyone who knew him and had the training, I think they would have spotted that actually, this just wasn't a child who just didn't care because clearly he cared because his academic levels were always really good. This was a child that was genuinely not able to organise himself and to keep friendship groups. He would always flee in and out of friendship groups, fall in with a group just because they were kind of like the popular ones or something, not necessarily the ones that were right for him. So, yeah, I just wish there could have been someone that knew him well enough to see the little changes, to have spotted it.



00:29:37.371 - Alis

But again, it goes back to what you said earlier about that importance of having meaningful relationships and seeing pupils and students as individuals.



00:29:48.221 - Lisa

100%, and I think talking to me as well. So as a parent, especially when he was at secondary school, I was raising my concerns all the time about how unorganised he was, how he would really struggle to keep up with the work, not to do it, but just to organise it so that it would all be handed in at the right time. But all they were interested in was, well, when it is handed in, it's really to a high standard. And I don't think it's because they didn't care, I don't think they had anyone that could help. And I certainly would communicate with parents at primary school if I noted a change in them and they weren't able to articulate that to me, they didn't have the words, then I would definitely talk to a parent or let the teacher know so the teacher could talk to the parent to see if there was anything going on or any more support that we could offer in school to help. And I wish that the school would have reached out to me more because I think no one knew him as well as I knew him, and I knew there was something that was going wrong at that point.



00:30:58.051 - Alis

So a piece of advice, both to people who work in schools as well as adults, is communication is key.



00:31:07.111 -  Lisa

It's so vital.



00:31:09.271 -  Alis

If you feel anything is being missed, it's about having that conversation. Just phoning up and talking to the right person at the school and if you don't get the right person, try again.



00:31:21.071 - Lisa

So when the school was saying to me, well, everything's fine, he's okay at school, then I would think, okay, well, they know him, they see him in a different environment. In hindsight, it was papering over massive cracks,



00:31:35.351 - Alis

and I suppose everything was okay because they were thinking academically. And he was, he was doing fine academically.



00:31:42.851 - Lisa

He was. He was flying. Absolutely flying. He was one of their star pupils academically, but that's a tiny part of the picture from what makes someone rounded, I believe.



00:31:55.941 - Alis

Absolutely. What happened next?



00:31:57.251 - Lisa

Yeah. So he came back from university and then just started a slow decline, really, so gradually lost touch with friends, wasn't going out. He did leave university and got a job, but then it became apparent that he couldn't really hold down a job because it was finding a job that he could cope with, really. Couldn't really organise himself, let alone organise a workload to do. So, although he had all the qualifications and the academic know-how, when he actually had to kind of organise and start thinking for himself and to sit down at an office desk, he couldn't do it. So then he thought, we'll change my profession. So he went into a profession where he was more active. But again, the social skills and not being able to forge long lasting friendships then sort of became problematic for him. And, yeah, we're still sort of on that journey, really trying to help him to find his place, and to find where he would fit in, which is sad because he's in his thirties now, and now he kind of has depression, and he's doing a job now that is quite repetitive, but that he's active in. He doesn't really have to organise. Other people organise him. He just does what he's told, really. But because he is so academic, I think he's mentally bored doing that. So we're in this constant battle now between him being in a place that he can cope with on the organisational front and being active, but he is mentally very bored. So, yeah, it's  ongoing.



00:33:55.031 - Alis

That goes back to what you were saying just now about the academic isn't everything, because you might pass all the exams, but actually you've got to have those other skills in place in order to feel fulfilled.



00:34:08.021 -  Lisa 

Yeah. In fact, I think I would say, in my opinion, they're more important because, you know, there's no good having a top of the range sports car if you don't know how to drive it. And that is almost what it's like. He's got all this academic ability, but he can't access it. It's almost like,  he's unable to access it because of this ADD, and the other things.



00:34:38.011 - Alis

So what key things would you want a listener to take away from our conversation today Lisa?



00:34:44.661 - Lisa

If I were giving anyone any advice, it would be, as a practitioner, to value the child, see each child as an individual, and to really build those relationships with them so that you genuinely know what it is that makes them happy. You're not always going to make everyone happy. I know that in a class of thirty there will be those situations where you have good days and bad days, and it's not easy, but it's about knowing that what you do is so worthwhile. And if you can make a difference to a few children, it is so worthwhile. But I think that comes from genuinely having a relationship with them and knowing them and being able to meet their needs, really, because if we don't, who else will? It's so important. And then once you start, it can seem like a really big task to begin with. But as you start and then you see that they're happier and they're learning, it becomes so much easier because then hopefully what they end up doing is organising themselves and being able to achieve socially and academically. I do think it stems from listening to them, you know, talking to them and listening to them and building these relationships is really important.



00:36:18.011 - Alis

I think you're right. That to me would be a key takeaway, working in schools. What about for a parent? What would you want them to take away from this conversation that might be helpful?



00:36:29.531 - Lisa

Working with the school and keeping the communication open. We're all working towards the same goal that we all want, what's best for children. As a parent, your child is the most precious thing in your world. And as an educator, it's the same. We just do it for the children. It's all about the children. Without them, we wouldn't be doing the job. So I think it's about communicating and being open and honest. Without that communication, how else can that be? So I think to communicate is really key.



00:37:12.091 - Alis 

Thanks, Lisa. And I just want to say thank you for your time to join me today for this conversation. I think there's some real jewels of wisdom in there that people can take away, but also just so clear how passionate you are about the children and the families that you work with. And I know that you've made such a difference to so many lives. So thank you and continue to do what you're doing.



00:37:36.691 - Lisa

Thank you for inviting me on. I feel it's been a real privilege to share my experiences and hopefully if other people listen to it and they can get something from it, then that's fantastic as well.



00:37:50.151 - Alis

I hope you enjoyed today's conversation and are able to take something interesting and positive away from it. Our podcasts are sensitively produced and give evidence-based information, whether from academic research and experts in their fields or from lived experiences. They are created to help others spot early signs of distress and may require further monitoring and information on how to follow up and get help. Learning about child mental health and understanding how to recognise potential disorders is an important first step for everyone caring for children and young people. Please visit our website, nipinthebud.org and go to our 'where to get help' page for organisations which can provide both support and further information to help you and those you care for. Any specific links that we've spoken about today can be found in the show notes. Finally, you can find Nip in the Bud on all the socials and get more information and further support. Don't forget to subscribe, like and share with someone who you think may benefit from all that Nip in the Bud has to offer. See you next time.