Nip in the Bud® Podcast - The children's mental health charity

Nip in the bud nuggets with Dr Bettina Hohnen: How to parent in line with your child's developmental stages.

• Nip in the Bud Children's Mental Charity

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In these short podcast clips, we offer nuggets of information from our longer podcasts that give advice and quick tips to help you as parents and carers recognise your children’s needs and respond more efficiently, empowering you to better navigate the challenges of parenting.

This clip is from my podcast with Dr Bettina Hohnen - Neurodiversity: how to parent and educate neurodiverse brains effectively.

In this clip, we discuss the four phases of being a parent  and what to know at these key times in your child’s development. We also take a look at John Bolby’s Attachment Theory and how important it is to understand why attachment is crucial for survival and what to do if attachment has not been formed for a reason. We also discuss the circle of security approach and how this can be another way of developing your parenting skills. 

If you enjoyed this clip, why not go back and listen to the longer form podcast to hear more. If you can think of someone who would benefit from listening, don't forget to share.

Links and further reading:

Dr Bettina Hohnen is  also partnering with Nip in the Bud to do vlogs  answering your questions and sharing further advice.

Dr Bettina Hohnen website (including links to her books:
The Incredible Teenage Brain by Bettina Hohnen, Jane Gilmour and Tara Murphy
How to have incredible conversations with your child by Jane Gilmour and Bettina Hohnen
https://drbettinahohnen.com/

Circle of security course by   - Connected Lives
https://www.connectedlives.org.uk/

General parenting books recommended by Dr Hohnen include the following`;
Good inside by Dr Becky Kennedy 
The book you wish your parents had read by Philippa Perry

Please follow Dr Bettina Hohnen on social media for tips and ideas about strengthening relationships with your kids
Instagram: drbettinahohnen
Twitter: bettinahohnen

Disclaimer: The content provided in the Nip in the Bud podcasts is for educational and entertainment purposes only. It is not intended to replace or serve as a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition or mental health issue.

Nip in the Bud - Where to get help

https://nipinthebud.org/where-to-get-help/



SPEAKER_01:

In these short podcast clips, we offer nuggets of information from our longer podcasts that give advice and quick tips to help you as parents and carers recognize your children's needs and respond more efficiently, empowering you to better navigate the challenges of parenting. This clip is from my podcast with Bettina Honan, Neurodiversity, How to Parent and Educate Neurodiverse Brains Effectively. In this clip, we discuss the four phases of being a parent and what to know at these key times in your child's development. We also take a look at John Bowlby's attachment theory and how important it is to understand why attachment is crucial for survival and what to do if attachment has not been formed for a reason. We also discuss the circle of security approach and how this can be another way of developing your parenting skills. Obviously, um as a charity we're very concerned with nipping things in the bud. How young would you suggest that we as adults begin to make those differences to the children? Make it sh make it clear that that they can, that they can achieve, that they are successful. When would you start?

SPEAKER_00:

Um right at the beginning. Right at the beginning. And you know, we have to understand the developmental model of what's happening for kids. I uh I was hearing this thing the other day, which I think is such a lovely way of describing it. It's that there's four phases of being a parent. The first one is the first two years of life where you're just a comforter. It's about bonding, it's about eye contact, about making a bond. Then you become their coach, uh, and that's from two to the beginning of the teenage years, which is I think an absolutely key time. But it's a time when the brain is developing millions and millions and millions of connections in the brain, and the child is learning, they're learning from you, you have an incredible amount of influence on them, but um also uh at that time they're learning about relationships and modeling is very important. So they're watching what you do, and that's how they learn things. But there's certain things in the education system that happen, expectations we have of kids at those ages. And if a kid is struggling at any point, we need to understand why. So they're struggling to learn to read. Okay, we need to understand what's going on for them in terms of their brain. Is there something emotionally or socially going on? They're struggling to sit down at the table, they're struggling to meet um expectations in terms of behaviour. So rather than saying, oh, labeling them as this is a naughty child, this is an unintelligent child, this is something that's quite damning and negative, that's the point at which we need to go. What's really going on? And really working with this belief that every child wants to be in a positive relationship with the adults in their life if they can be. And if they're not, there's something going on, and it belies to the adults to try and work out what happens. Just to say the last two phases, then you go into the the teenagers, which requires a significant shift as an adult in terms of your relationship because of what's going on in their brain. That's much more about being a kind of counsellor. It's about, you know, much more of a reciprocal relationship. You're still very strongly their guide, but they have to have a bit more of a say in things. And then the last bit is like from 17 upwards to maybe mid-20s when the brain ends developing in our mid-20s, which is more of a consultant. You know, you're really stepping back, you haven't taken your hands away completely, but you're really allowing them to um to take charge much more in their life overall. But yeah, at every stage in these early stages, if you can catch it, anything that's going on in terms of the differences in their brain or in terms of what's happening socially and emotionally from them, you can set kids up on a much more positive path. And you have really have so much more influence in those primary years. And it's a key time for setting up the relationships.

SPEAKER_01:

So just to recap that for our listeners, you're you're saying the first stage is a comforter, and that's from birth to to two years. Yeah. And then you move into the coaching stage, which was two years to early teens. And then from coach, you become counsellor up until um was it early 20s? Or until 17 or so? 17, and then consultant. And I would argue you probably stay as consultant for the rest of their lives, even when they become adults. Exactly. That never never goes away. So I mean, that's quite I love I love the way that you've some summed it up like that, but that's quite a tall order for us as parents. There's no guidebook, there's no qualification, you come home from hospital with your baby. You know, what what sort of advice would you give to help parents travail that journey?

SPEAKER_00:

I think there's a lot of learning that we have to do as a parent. I think an old idea is you will just know, you'll have an instinct, don't worry about it, just get on with it. And it's really interesting, isn't it? Because when I was having kids, there was a pre there were prenatal classes that everybody seemed to go to. But there were no classes afterwards. And I remember being very struck by oh, okay, I've got it out. I've got the baby here, it's alive, it's worked. Oh, I didn't really think about what to do now. Yeah, I think that has changed. My youngest is 25. Um, but uh so what I think is that we now have so much knowledge available to us about what kids need to grow up to be psychologically healthy, what I would call psychologically healthy. There are some key theories we could get into, we could talk a little bit about. And I think the neuroscience, which has really developed over the last 25 years or so, is also key in helping us to understand how the brain develops. So that developmental model that I was just talking about, you know, we need to change as a parent over the 25 years that our kids are developing. We didn't used to know that, but we do know that now. They need different things from us and about how the brain functions. So there are some key things that really help us to know how to communicate, how to help them manage emotions. Um, so those are things that there's a bit of learning that I think is absolutely crucial. I think if we could teach all parents that right from the beginning, it really sets you up for success. So that's a bit of it.

SPEAKER_01:

So, how do parents learn? Where do they find that information? Where would you send them?

SPEAKER_00:

That there's a lot of really brilliant books. I could could give you some really good books actually.

SPEAKER_01:

Um that would be great if we could have them for the show notes so that the audience can just just choose, pick and choose what suits them. That would be wonderful.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Um, and to be honest, social media is amazing now. Uh, you know, I've been putting a few little videos on Instagram and things, but there are other people who who do it a lot more and in a bigger way, and they have big followings, but they are little nuggets of gold dust, and they're the things that we need to be reminded of all the time. Um, because it's hard, you know, you arrive at parenting having no idea, you have a model of how you were parented, which was imperfect because everybody's experience was imperfect, some more imperfect than others, and unless we reflect on it and we are prepared to go, okay, what's going on for me now in terms of how I'm responding to my child? Unless we do that, we are likely to kind of repeat patterns, many of which will be unhelpful patterns from our past. So I think there's a bit of psychoeducation called psychoeducation, working out what do I need to do, what's important for children when they're growing up, and then there's a bit of self-reflection. I think those two things are what sets you up to be the best parent you can be.

SPEAKER_01:

And I I love the way that you talk about little nuggets. It's not that you need to go and get a PhD on parenting, but actually sometimes it's just listening to a minute or two of somebody talk that just drops that gold dust. And I suppose, I suppose that's how it would have been when a whole village brought up a child. Right. You know, we're we're so we're so isolated in a way, aren't we? And and I I agree, I remember the antenatal classes and getting all of that help, even down to this is how you're gonna hold the baby, this is how you're gonna wash the baby. But then afterwards it's like, okay, you now you're on your own. And actually, that is a huge bonus of social media that we can just get these nuggets. We can because often it's it's things that we don't know we need to know, but if you just hear it and you have that reflective attitude that you're talking about, then it's it's can it can impact greatly on the way that you you behave as a parent. Could you tell us a little bit about some of the uh the philosophy or the thinking behind the work and behind your approaches?

SPEAKER_00:

So attachment theory is one of the biggest theories that drives what I do, which I think is becoming more and more well known. It was developed by somebody called John Bowlby, and it's really this idea that the relationships we form very early in life form the template for all future relationships. Now we're fundamentally social beings and we need to be in relationship with another person to survive. And if you just stop and think for a moment, that a human brain takes 25 years to develop. Like more than a quarter of a human's life is devoted to this developmental phase. And so that's partly, I mean, that's why we think this social bond is so key. You know, babies need to be in relationship, otherwise you wouldn't survive. So these relationships are fundamental and they're actually a precondition for any growth and learning that happens throughout life. So attachment theory is one of the most important theories. Um, and I really love a course called Circle of Security Parenting. If anybody wants to look that up, um, there are people who run it in the UK. I run it sometimes, but there's a charity uh called Connected Lives who run them. Um and it's really, I love this idea. So this is this idea that we are the hands on the circle for our children. And actually, in all relationships, we're going out, leaving the person that we love, and then we're coming back in. So it's this circle, and kids are doing this throughout their lives, and we need to be the best hands that we can be. We provide them with a secure base, and that's what attachment theory is all about. How can I provide my kids with a secure a base I can so that they can go and explore the world and they know that they've got somewhere to come back to where you've got their back, where the you where you accept them and love them unconditionally.

SPEAKER_01:

And what happens if a child doesn't have that? What what what's the the flip side of what you're talking about if they aren't a a safe pair of hands? Um if if a parent's struggling at the beginning, or indeed if if there's some sort of um adverse childhood experience that has made meant that that child doesn't feel attachment as easily as others. What what does that look like maybe as they go through that developmental stage up to 25, but also beyond?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I mean the first thing to say I think is that things obviously do happen. Uh, and it's never too late to kind of try and repair relationships and come back and and kind of mend things. So that's one of the great things about knowing about this theory is that we we understand what we need to do to help kids and people to become more attached, to feel more secure. I mean, I think the uh there are various kinds of categories of attachment difficulty, but essentially it has an impact on a person's ability to make relationships, to have relationships that are really effective, to manage conflict, and it can also lead to mental health difficulties and other things down the road. But sometimes parents will come to me when their kids are a bit older and they'll say, Oh, it's too late. It's never too late, it's literally never too late. Even if you are the adult of a um, you know, the parent of an adult and you feel like your relationship is it is in a difficult place, there's always repair. You can come back and you can fix things.

SPEAKER_01:

So What does that repair look like? What what sorts of things would you would you suggest somebody did if they if they were at that point where they needed to repair attachments and repair relationships?

SPEAKER_00:

I mean, I think it's requires a lot of honesty, a lot of vulnerability, a lot of admitting when you were wrong, and also kind of being very curious about what the other person experienced. Listening to them can just that can be magical in itself. Uh and I know adults whose parents have said to them, Do you know what? I was thinking about when you were a kid, and I'm really sorry that I didn't know about X, and I think the impact on you might have been Y. That is so powerful in helping somebody to understand what's going on for them and to get them in a pla better place mentally because kids need to be in a relationship with their parents, so they will make adjustments as to what they need in order to support what their kids need. But sometimes those adjustments are not good for the person as they as they grow up.

SPEAKER_01:

Is there any way that you can help parents when in the work that you do to have those types of conversations with their children and to to develop effective relationships?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. I mean I would I would say there are three kind of big things. Well, understanding this idea of you being their secure base where they come and go is one thing.

SPEAKER_01:

And that secure base, does that last throughout their developmental stage or is that just within the the comforter stage?

SPEAKER_00:

Throughout the whole developmental phase, yeah. I mean, in actually it almost becomes more important during the teenage years, even though teenagers are kind of looking away from you because the teenagers are all about finding my friends, working out who I am, becoming independent, having a different view to their parents. But actually, because the teenagers is so much about going out and exploring and going on adventures, they really need that secure base more and more. It's easier to provide, I would say, in the early years. It's kind of easier to provide preteen but essential later. And that transition when they leave for university, it's very, very important. So understanding that, the secure base, the next thing I will always work with parents on is how to manage emotions. And this is a big thing that I think is being talked about more and more. But this idea that when a child, I mean, often emotions are shown as behavior. So when a child shows a behavior, they're having a tantrum, they're whatever it is is happening. Rather than just responding to the behavior, we have to look underneath and say what's really going on for them, and try to understand what's going on for them emotionally. Because parents are key emotion regulators for their kids. And learning how to manage our own emotions is one of the things we have to learn during our childhood. So that's one thing, that's the second thing that's very important. So we've got being the secure base, understanding the going and coming, how to manage emotions, communicating with them is another thing. It's how to really talk with young people. Um so um the kind of when and how to do that, so that you are holding them within the safety of your relationship, but also helping them to problem solve a little bit without you. And I think parents can get, they can either become a little bit too um, they will uh kind of overcompensate a little bit and not allow their kids to find their own strength, or they can push them a little bit too hard and not be enough of a comfort for them. I think that's the way in which we can become unbalanced. And boundaries is a really important thing, holding boundaries, but kindly, you know, without frightening kids, without being unkind to them, um, but being firm and being really consistent, which is another thing that parents can really struggle with. So the the parents that come to see me, those are the basic things that we'll go over to begin with. Watching some videos, learning some mantras, understanding some of the kind of techniques, secure base, managing emotions, communicating and holding firm, kind boundaries.

SPEAKER_01:

And you talked quite a lot there about the importance of balance in all of that. How does a a parent know when the balance has shifted in in one way or another?

SPEAKER_00:

This is the hardest thing, I think, as a parent. It's knowing when do I protect and when do I push them? And it's making that call. It's it's hard. And I think it becomes even more complicated when your child has a diagnosis of some kind. Do you know? Um, there's a really within circle of security, there's something that I find really helpful. It's a mantra. Always be bigger, stronger, wiser, and kind. And sometimes if you think of sitting on a seesaw, when we're trying to be kind, if we lose strength, we become weak. And that means we say to our child, No, you can't go to the party. Our child falls to the floor, they cry, they whatever happens, and then we say, Okay, you can go. That's an example. Being weak, being kind.

SPEAKER_01:

You think you're being kind, but actually you're being weak, and you've dissolved that boundary that you you'd already put in place.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, exactly. And actually, it feels like a relief in the moment because your child is no longer angry with you or they're no longer sad, but it doesn't help them feel safe. They need us to be strong. And the other thing we can do when we're trying to be strong, we lose kindness and then we become mean. And that's when we frighten kids or we use our power or our authority over them in an unkind way. You are just so spoiled. Oh my god, I can't believe you know, I've given you everything and you still want more. You know, those kind of things, or making a statement about a child. You're you you your trouble is you're just lazy. Those things are not kind, and we're using our strength in a way we can make kids do things in the short term, but it doesn't help in the long term.

SPEAKER_01:

I hope you enjoyed that nipping a bud nugget. If you want more, why not go back and listen to the whole episode of my guest? If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with others and visit our website for more information, advice, and resources.