Mindfully Moving On: Embracing Life's Ultimate Transition with Jonna Rae Bartges

We talk with Jonna Rae Bartges, an author, minister, Emmy-winning producer, and founder of the Practical Spirituality Institute, about supporting loved ones who are nearing death and easing fear around dying. 

Jonna Rae  shares the phrase “grief remembers the love that created it,” explains how humor can raise “frequency”  (and helped her survive a 1989 brain aneurysm), and describes her approach as a bridge between science and spirituality. 

Ms. Bartges references concepts like the unified field, Carl Jung’s collective unconscious, near-death experiences, and research suggesting consciousness continues. 

This episode includes practical guidance such as  normalizing death conversations, discussing proud memories, validating a person’s impact, and asking who they look forward to seeing “on the other side.”

Transcript

james_1_12-18-2025_100944 2:20

I am excited to have John Ray barges here with us today. And we're going to talk about a topic that is coming to all of us. Both loved ones are going to pass on and we ourselves are gonna do that. And ray and I talked a little bit about what would be a good topic to do, and we thought that we thought this one was a pretty good one. Welcome John

happy-medium--her-she-_1_12-18-2025_100944 2:42

Thank you

james_1_12-18-2025_100944 2:42

I appreciate that. I want to just reiterate that John Ray is an author, a minister, an Emmy winning producer. She has worked for top level international companies like Disney and SeaWorld. She's a heavy hitter and she's a big shot. She's here. And in my mind, she's a very big shot in, in this world of spirituality. In order for me to stay on the topic that we're going, I can't go on about that. But suffice it to say that you're going to hear from someone who's really connected with the divine. And just to. Briefly talk about a phrase that was given to John Ray about grief. Can you tell us what we were just talking about?

happy-medium--her-she-_1_12-18-2025_100944 3:31

Yes I'd be happy to. And I was meditating and praying and getting ready to talk to you and share information with people. And something that just came out of the blue was grief remembers the love that created it. So even in our deepest grief and our deepest sorrow, there's still that vibration, that frequency of love, and that's what helps us heal this.

james_1_12-18-2025_100944 3:57

Grief remembers the love that created it. That's so cool. That's really neat. Really neat. Let's talk a little bit about the fact that you created the Practical Spirituality Institute and, one of the foundations of that I is humor. That's something that you use quite frequently. Why is that?

happy-medium--her-she-_1_12-18-2025_100944 4:21

That's a great question. I feel that. When we are laughing our heart opens up and we have this connection with each other. And when you think about it, there are so many, joyful things happening all around us. And the quality of our life really depends on what we choose to focus on. And so when we find something silly and what's going on, even in serious things it totally shifts our frequency and it. It brings us into a, an into a higher consciousness. When I, myself was dying from a brain aneurysm back in 1989, I was saying things to my neurosurgeon like, I know it's all in my head. And he told me later when I interviewed him for my book, two decades later, that the only reason I survived was because I didn't go down into fear. I stayed up in a higher frequency,

james_1_12-18-2025_100944 5:14

Okay.

happy-medium--her-she-_1_12-18-2025_100944 5:14

silly jokes, and. And as a result, everything in your body responds to what you're thinking, what you're saying. And so I was able to, get through that surgery and come back just as ornery as ever. In no small part because I kept my energy, my frequency high with bad jokes. And I, yeah, I begin all my classes by saying, how many of you believe in telekinesis? Raise my hand people.

james_1_12-18-2025_100944 5:43

I love that. I love that show. I never get tired of that one. Just to to summarize in a way that the, that humor and laughter and having a spirit that's high. It helps not only our. mood and our psyche. It also helps our body. And so yeah. More, more of that. You please. That, that's so great. So great. Have describe yourself in some communications as the happy medium between the worlds of science and spirit. Could you talk about that a bit?

happy-medium--her-she-_1_12-18-2025_100944 6:15

Absolutely. Growing up as one of three kids in Allentown, Pennsylvania. My dad was a school teacher, my mom was a homemaker, and I was having visions and seeing things and feeling things and knowing things and my parents let me know that was not okay to talk about that. So I kept getting the message. It was important to, pass as normal. And so it was always having to be. Get the best grades in class and And excel and all these extracurricular activities and things like that. So having a normal base actually has helped me work with people because when you meet people where they're at, instead of just saying you can go into a past life and get information that's a little bit scary, but if you are talking about the scientific principles behind that. Like entanglements on the unified field or the collective unconscious that Carl Young talked about, where you don't have to have literally had an experience to have a memory of it. When you're working from that perspective with proven, science and psychology as the base, then people are more likely to be able to let go of any hesitation and restriction, and then we build on that to take it into. A higher FA more spiritual way of being with it.

james_1_12-18-2025_100944 7:35

I think that's wonderful and I'm gonna talk more about that a little bit later on. And the I wanna go into a little bit that you live in the Asheville, North Carolina area.

happy-medium--her-she-_1_12-18-2025_100944 7:47

Yes.

james_1_12-18-2025_100944 7:49

And you give classes online and do you do any in-person work as well?

happy-medium--her-she-_1_12-18-2025_100944 7:56

I had monthly in-person classes until Helene came through and wiped out the spiritual center.

james_1_12-18-2025_100944 8:03

Oh, geez.

happy-medium--her-she-_1_12-18-2025_100944 8:04

I know.

james_1_12-18-2025_100944 8:04

Minor detail.

happy-medium--her-she-_1_12-18-2025_100944 8:05

Yeah. And I was also teaching the class where nurses actually get continuing education credits for learning how to do. Past life regressions and talking to people in spirit, using it all in, in the scientific terms. And that was Lenore Rhine University Center for Graduate Studies, and that also stopped being available after Helene.

james_1_12-18-2025_100944 8:26

Okay.

happy-medium--her-she-_1_12-18-2025_100944 8:27

Right now it's mainly Zoom, but the good thing about that is it's opened it up because I have students that I'm working with all around the country and in other countries.

james_1_12-18-2025_100944 8:37

Yes I could not attend a class, realistically speaking in Western North Carolinas seeing as how I live in Pennsylvania. And that is a wonderful opportunity then and. If anyone wanted to, just quickly, if anyone wanted to find out what classes you teach and what their options are for, as for signing up for them, they would just go online and look up PSI.

happy-medium--her-she-_1_12-18-2025_100944 9:03

Yeah. PSI studies com

james_1_12-18-2025_100944 9:06

Okay.

happy-medium--her-she-_1_12-18-2025_100944 9:07

find it.

james_1_12-18-2025_100944 9:07

PSI.

happy-medium--her-she-_1_12-18-2025_100944 9:08

And one thing I wanted to throw in for people who were thinking it's not as effective a connection when it's virtual, when it's on Zoom. I was teaching a Reiki class. And it got to the part of the class where I do a guided meditation, and then I do the aune on people. And so this was right after COVID hit, and so I had to switch the class to being, just a phone call was, I'm old. And so I was not, nimbly jumping into like Skype and Zoom wasn't even that much of a thing back then

james_1_12-18-2025_100944 9:42

Yes.

happy-medium--her-she-_1_12-18-2025_100944 9:42

At least for me. So it was just a phone call. It was a conference call. And everyone was on the phone, and I was teaching them that way. And we got to the part where I was doing the attunement, and that's where I amp up my frequency, amp up theirs. And I heard a click on the phone and I thought that's weird that somebody would hang up during this. But I kept going. And then after another couple seconds, I heard a dial tone. I had knocked out the phone line during the attunement. And so I, I immediately called back in. And everybody was just saying we thought that was part of the attunement. So

james_1_12-18-2025_100944 10:18

Oh my good. My goodness. Yeah, I know that electronics are very subject to to spiritual things,

happy-medium--her-she-_1_12-18-2025_100944 10:27

yes.

james_1_12-18-2025_100944 10:27

They're a way that spirit can cross over into this world as well. And

happy-medium--her-she-_1_12-18-2025_100944 10:32

I tried it again, I tried to do the attunement again on the phone conversation. Knocked out the line. So that's when I realized I need a B. So I forced myself to learn how to do this and

james_1_12-18-2025_100944 10:45

Wow. Thank goodness. Thank goodness you did. Yeah.

happy-medium--her-she-_1_12-18-2025_100944 10:49

it's not as powerful when it's not in person. It.

james_1_12-18-2025_100944 10:54

Oh, yes, it is. It's I, today I wanted to talk about one aspect of people passing over, crossing over. And that is if a loved one is getting ready to transition and. The, just to say the word transition I mean it's, people commonly say it's, we're gonna die. I'm afraid of what's gonna happen when I die. Or I have fear of death. But I wanted to spend a couple of minutes just saying, talking about the fact that really is really only involves this human body our consciousness. Continues on. we know that by so many people who have had near death experiences. So they themselves have gone over to the death, and then they come back to this human body and then they can talk about what happened, what was over there, and and many other things. I ask you to just talk a little bit about. How would you talk to somebody who is nervous about what's gonna happen when I die?

happy-medium--her-she-_1_12-18-2025_100944 12:07

I think the first thing that's important to do is to just normalize conversations about death, because right now it's like the elephant in the room that it's there. Everyone is gonna go through this experience and our kind of frightened to even talk about it. Something that. I find very comforting to share with people is that even astrophysicists are talking about the fact that death is not an end. There, there are medical studies, scientific research, data proving that consciousness continues even when it's not in physical form. So one way I try to normalize it is to tell people this is a rental. We have this for a limited period of time, but the actual awareness that's driving this, rental vehicle does continue.

james_1_12-18-2025_100944 12:54

Yes.

happy-medium--her-she-_1_12-18-2025_100944 12:54

it's not limited. And so just talking with people about what do you think happens when we die, things like that. And then expanding the conversation into have you ever felt. Like your grandmother around you, after she died. And it's so interesting because years ago when I was executive news producer at the A BC affiliate here in Nashville in the early eighties, I was going to be talking to the association of psychologists in North Carolina about how to do a credible television interview. And I got to talk to the man who was at the time, president of the association, and after just a few questions, he was totally talking about connecting with loved ones in spirit and just intuitively knowing things. It's like all of us are having these experiences, but we haven't been told that it's okay to talk about them.

james_1_12-18-2025_100944 13:52

Absolutely. Absolutely.

happy-medium--her-she-_1_12-18-2025_100944 13:54

So when we can go ahead and introduce this in a very non-threatening way and not like in a, guess what happens, but just like a normal conversation about what do you think happens and have you felt loved ones goes by like a pet that you love. Have you ever felt them around? Or you get a new pet and it starts to do what the old pet did. Almost like the old pet was training it and just having these. What if, is this a possibility conversation and that starts to make it more comfortable for people.

james_1_12-18-2025_100944 14:22

Yes. And when we're talking about normalization, many times when people are approaching the end of this physical life they are in poor health. Not always but many times. And I think normalizing that is important as well. That, yeah, that's, this is the reality. This is where you're at. It's the, you can still be happy, e even though things aren't going, towards. Prolonged human life but that you can still be happy. This is okay. It's normal. This is, the, I hear over and over in interviews that the body knows how to die and it's all taken care of. Don't worry about it. It's yeah, where you are in your health journey is normal as well.

happy-medium--her-she-_1_12-18-2025_100944 15:10

Absolutely. And just take a look at our pets because what they will do, when they realize that their time is coming, they will wanna go out and curl up under a bush and just gently leave their body, and. We're the ones who wanna do like a kidney transplant for a goldfish. That's about our fear as opposed to,

james_1_12-18-2025_100944 15:29

Yes.

happy-medium--her-she-_1_12-18-2025_100944 15:30

Being in touch with the rhythms of our beautiful planet and of lifecycle.

james_1_12-18-2025_100944 15:35

Yes. One thing that you mentioned when we were getting ready to talk today was you can help someone who's getting ready to transition by opening the door to conversations.

happy-medium--her-she-_1_12-18-2025_100944 15:48

Absolutely. Because in our culture, this is something that generally isn't discussed when you talk about it. When you say, I just read an interesting article, or I just saw this documentary, or I just heard Jim talking to someone about, near death experiences and stuff like that, just casually. Letting them know it's okay to talk about this. Because something that I have found in my work with people as an intuitive consultant is as your life is drawing to a close, you realize that no matter what your age is, and you might start like giving away things to friends, you might start telling people that you love them. Just little things because it's like there's a part of you that intuitively knows that okay. Just about done. And something that I love to share with people is a quote from Richard Box Book Illusions. And this particular quote is, here's a test to find out if your mission on Earth is finished. If you're alive. It's not. I use that in my late husband's eulogy. It's just very comforting. It's like I truly believe that we're here to do things, to learn things. And we will stay here until we've accomplished that. And then we gently go into the next vehicle. But just having a conversation like that with someone what do you think? Why do you think you're here? What do you think your mission is? What's been your your spiritual journey this lifetime? And that really opens the door for people too.

james_1_12-18-2025_100944 17:23

Yes and I can just feel, imagine as you're talking about it that if someone were to ask me those things, it would also help to normalize this the situation, because it's not. Supposed to be a hidden thing. I had the experience where someone in my family passed away and I used the word that they died and and some of the, my family members were not too crazy about that because they thought it was a term to use. and it, to me it just showed that we keep the topic of. Passing on dying, whatever. We keep that hidden away. It's not a topic in, western society. It's not a topic that we talk about.

happy-medium--her-she-_1_12-18-2025_100944 18:08

We're starting to change that. Elizabeth Kubler Ross did a phenomenal job, a psychiatrist who basically brought death out of the closet with her work on basically creating hospice and creating the conversations reassuring people. This is all. This is a journey that we're all gonna take and something that I love to incorporate when I'm working with people on this, whichever side of the veil they're on. If they're getting ready to cross or they're helping a loved one get ready to cross, there is a a specific branch of psychology that fascinates me and it's called Positive Psychology.

james_1_12-18-2025_100944 18:44

Okay.

happy-medium--her-she-_1_12-18-2025_100944 18:45

this is it was created around 19 98. When Dr. Marty Seligman became president of the American Association of Psychologists, and he got to determine what they were gonna study for the two years he was president.

james_1_12-18-2025_100944 18:59

Okay.

happy-medium--her-she-_1_12-18-2025_100944 19:00

he realized that, okay, we've spent decades studying what messes people up. Let's study what makes people happy. And so for two years, they just collected data about what made people happy. And it boiled down to three key things. The first was belief in something greater than us. And whether it was God, whether it was compassion, whatever, it was Bigger than just us, it doesn't us. And then the second thing was your tribe, your friends, one or two people who have your back, who you can really talk to. And the third thing was purpose, feeling that you had done something important. And so being able to have a conversation with someone about what are the proudest things that you've done in your life? What do you feel? That opens the door for them to just start to feel this incredible sense of peace and accomplishment and release the fear that comes with, death is approaching, it's happening.

james_1_12-18-2025_100944 19:58

I think it's so wonderful that you're sharing these things with us because we all have to visit someone who's in their last days or appears that, that they are, and there's such a feeling of, I wish I could do something. I don't know what to

happy-medium--her-she-_1_12-18-2025_100944 20:15

Yeah,

james_1_12-18-2025_100944 20:15

but, and this is what you can do.

happy-medium--her-she-_1_12-18-2025_100944 20:17

absolutely.

james_1_12-18-2025_100944 20:18

Talk with them. You can have sit down and have a conversation about what are you most proud of in you achieved in this life? What, what are your greatest memories? And have them, think about those things and focus on that and focus on the happiness of

happy-medium--her-she-_1_12-18-2025_100944 20:35

You are so right with that and get some help with that. My. My husband's friends did a special car drive for him in his final couple months, and each one wrote one particular specific thing that he had done that had meant the world to them. And it wasn't just, you were a great friend. It was specific things like, I'll never forget the week my car was in the shop and you picked me up every morning and took me to work. And Paul would sit there and read through these and he'd have like happy tears. It's like he, he meant something. He made a difference. And so I highly suggest that you just make that part of like on someone's birthday when they're perfectly well,

james_1_12-18-2025_100944 21:15

Right.

happy-medium--her-she-_1_12-18-2025_100944 21:16

to give them feedback, positive things they did, how they made a difference, a specific difference for you and that's going to have them realize that, oh my gosh, I have that purposeful thing in my life. I've done things.

james_1_12-18-2025_100944 21:30

I would love. have that someone do that for me to feel that I helped people. I like helping people. I try to do it, it's not a topic that comes up that, yeah, you loaned me your car when I, mine was broken down, or you gave me a ride when, you know it was four in the morning and I'm sure you didn't want to. That, those would be so welcome to hear. And that's such a great thing to do. And that's, I just picturing Paul there, just reading these things and just remembering Yeah, we're friends. I love you. You love

happy-medium--her-she-_1_12-18-2025_100944 22:10

Yeah,

james_1_12-18-2025_100944 22:10

We had that. We had that together. Yes.

happy-medium--her-she-_1_12-18-2025_100944 22:13

Exactly. And something else to help focus in on this, and this is a little off the wall, but it's very, it brings great clarity is write your own obituary, even when you're young and healthy, go ahead and write it because what the obituary is, it's like a, your story,

james_1_12-18-2025_100944 22:30

yep.

happy-medium--her-she-_1_12-18-2025_100944 22:31

the Cliff Notes version of your life and the big things that happened. And so do that and then read that and see how that feels and realize, you know what I can add to this. I can do things now. I can be focusing more on, on what feels significant and purposeful to me. And so writing an obituary is a wonderful, practical thing to do that can really open the door for these conversations. It's I'm not done yet. I still wanna accomplish this and this. You.

james_1_12-18-2025_100944 23:04

Yes I'm glad you mentioned that.'cause because my wife Kathy and I did go to do some pre-planning and and one of the things that the funeral home asked for us to deliver some our obituaries and it took me a while to get down to doing it. But for some reason, one day I just said, today's the day and I sat down and I did it, and the things that I included. There are not necessarily things that other people, I didn't say I was the president of the x, y, Z club or I, that kind of thing. I, that really wasn't something important to me as I'm wanting people to remember me. I don't, that's not it. So I can say that I had a very good feeling when I finished that up. I felt yeah. That's it. That was a good, that's a life that you described,

happy-medium--her-she-_1_12-18-2025_100944 23:55

Yes,

james_1_12-18-2025_100944 23:56

so it's very positive. Yeah.

happy-medium--her-she-_1_12-18-2025_100944 23:58

and if there's still something that you wanna be accomplishing, it's wonderful

james_1_12-18-2025_100944 24:04

Yeah.

happy-medium--her-she-_1_12-18-2025_100944 24:06

motivation to get busy and do.

james_1_12-18-2025_100944 24:09

Still got time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's neat. The idea that if a person is still well enough that if you're trying to with a person who's getting ready to transition that perhaps you could suggest that you could do things together

happy-medium--her-she-_1_12-18-2025_100944 24:27

Absolutely.

james_1_12-18-2025_100944 24:27

with

happy-medium--her-she-_1_12-18-2025_100944 24:28

Absolutely. I think the is for say to terminally Ill friend let me know if I can do anything for you.

james_1_12-18-2025_100944 24:36

Oh yeah. That just bugs the heck outta

happy-medium--her-she-_1_12-18-2025_100944 24:39

Yes it's, you go to them with specific things, whether if they're still mobile, if you could take them to the arboretum to enjoy the plants and the flowers. If they'd like to go to a movie with you if they'd like to go to a concert. Something along that line. You meet suggestions. Even something like, let's I'd love to take you to lunch today, or, this week sometime.

james_1_12-18-2025_100944 25:04

Yes.

happy-medium--her-she-_1_12-18-2025_100944 25:04

I'd love to bring you lunch. You come up with the suggestions, and then they get to pick and choose. And it's, it just shows such love and such true connection and compassion on your part. And something that Mother Teresa said, which I love is it's not about doing great things. It's about doing small things with great love. And so even little things that you would do for them, like you bring them a. An aromatic room spray or just little things like that show you thinking of them, that you care, that they're important to you and you're so grateful that they're in your life. Little things like that mean the world to them, but how much more fun for them to have a list of options of cool things they could do with you Of saying, let know if there's anything.

james_1_12-18-2025_100944 25:51

This is wonderful. This, nice for me to talk about and to feel like there are all these things that, that I can do to help someone who I love. And that is getting ready, to transition. One of the things we talked about was validating their purposefulness. Could you talk about that a little please?

happy-medium--her-she-_1_12-18-2025_100944 26:09

Yeah I think it absolutely. Goes with the idea that we come here to do something specific and it doesn't have to be, a great thing like Mother Teresa was talking about. It can just be being compassionate. Taking time to volunteer, like little things like that.

james_1_12-18-2025_100944 26:27

Yeah, you went to your, you went to your granddaughter's softball

happy-medium--her-she-_1_12-18-2025_100944 26:31

Yeah. That makes.

james_1_12-18-2025_100944 26:32

You were there for her, right?

happy-medium--her-she-_1_12-18-2025_100944 26:33

Yeah, it meant the world to her, and you could see that little smile light up when she saw that you were there in the stands. And so just doing little things like that and then acknowledging them, realizing that truly did make a difference. Look at how she lit up. Look at how happy she was. And this isn't just with people it's like volunteering at an animal shelter or. Adopting

james_1_12-18-2025_100944 26:55

right.

happy-medium--her-she-_1_12-18-2025_100944 26:56

animals. Something along that line too, because animals are naturally coming from that heart level that we get to when we're doing compassionate things. And so something like that is, is incredibly meaningful. But letting people know again what an, how they made the world a better place. Things that We're unique to them that they did,

james_1_12-18-2025_100944 27:18

yes.

happy-medium--her-she-_1_12-18-2025_100944 27:19

that are going to exist long after they're no longer here in physical form.

james_1_12-18-2025_100944 27:24

Yes.

happy-medium--her-she-_1_12-18-2025_100944 27:25

else. Lots of times when someone is terminally ill, they want to do something for people. It's not about them receiving, they wanna do something. And an idea that, that just appeared for me was. Getting some crystals, like little glass crystals, like you hang in a window,

james_1_12-18-2025_100944 27:44

Okay.

happy-medium--her-she-_1_12-18-2025_100944 27:44

make rainbows, and then getting them several of those and then telling them, okay, so this is for your spouse. This is for, a child, significant people in their life. And then they hold each crystal individually and as they're holding it, they're putting in it all their. Their blessings for that person and their desires for their happiness and their health and their joy. And so they've blessed these crystals, and then you put them in either like a little box or even a plastic bag with that person's name on, and then you, that person who's terminally ill can present those crystals to the people while they're still here, and they can see the joy in their life, and they're going to have these rainbows that person made for them for the rest of their life. It's something that only they can give to people that matter, and it's just seeing them light up because here's something positive where they're giving of themselves.

james_1_12-18-2025_100944 28:40

Yes. That's gonna continue to exist

happy-medium--her-she-_1_12-18-2025_100944 28:42

Absolutely.

james_1_12-18-2025_100944 28:43

after they're left their physical

happy-medium--her-she-_1_12-18-2025_100944 28:45

It's love, it's light, it's beauty it's all these colors all over the room. You know that they, that are full of blessings for that person. It makes them feel wonderful because nobody else could give that

james_1_12-18-2025_100944 28:58

Yes. We're getting close to finishing up for today's episode, but one of the things that, that you and I talked about was having a conversation with the person about who are they looking forward to seeing on the other side.

happy-medium--her-she-_1_12-18-2025_100944 29:14

I think that's a beautiful conversation because that helps to normalize talking about death, and it also lets them know that there are so many people who love them waiting to welcome them again. There are so many positive connections. That they've made through their life, that don't end, they just transition into a higher frequency. And so they can actually start to eagerly anticipate seeing these people and being in this space. And something that I love is a, the story about Steve Jobs. Last words, here's a man, brilliant man, rich enough to buy and sell all of us multiple times over. And so here he is at the end of his life in this bed, surrounded by friends and family. And suddenly he just gets this lovely look on his face. It's so peaceful and he's looking beyond, the room. And he just says, oh, wow. And then he just gently left his body. So he was overwhelmed by the beauty that he was seeing, and undoubtedly all the people that were there to greet him on the other side, all the pets, all these loving things that were. So beautiful and overwhelmed. This man who was known for maybe not being very expressive but here he was just completely overwhelmed by this beauty that he was seeing. And so talking with people about that, who do you wanna see? What things, what questions will you have for them? What do you wanna, share with them? So that kind of eager anticipation is. It's a real healing thing too.

james_1_12-18-2025_100944 30:49

Yes. Oh, I think that's right.'cause it's this is not a bad

happy-medium--her-she-_1_12-18-2025_100944 30:53

Yeah.

james_1_12-18-2025_100944 30:53

This is a great thing that you're gonna be able to see. See them, I just was watching a YouTube this morning with a hospice nurse who showed a picture of a person who's lying in their, essentially their deathbed and reaching up and talking to to. People that you couldn't see, but talking to them and so smiling and so happy that he was greeting them and they were greeting him. And so it's ah, it's just it's positive and I appreciate that. And let's finish up for now. I wanna do an interview next to talk about what we can do to get ready for our own passing. And when, not today. This is for someone else. Next time we'll do it for ourselves. And I hope that you'll join me to do that,

happy-medium--her-she-_1_12-18-2025_100944 31:44

Absolutely. I.

james_1_12-18-2025_100944 31:46

Okay, thanks.