Life - It Just Keeps on Going
Join in a spiritual adventure to examine what will happen when each of us dies. We will meet with people who have gone to the other side and come back (Near Death Experience - NDE), people who can speak with spirits on the other side (Mediums), people who help others go back to earlier lives to solve current problems (Past Life Regression Therapy) and much more.
We will also enjoy experiencing energy healing such as acupuncture, master energy healers, reiki, medical qigong, and more.
Life - It Just Keeps on Going
The Art of Dying Well: Lessons from Jonna Rae Bartges
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In a second interview with John Ray Bartges, the discussion focuses on how to approach the end of human life by choosing kindness, expressing love, and being present with others to create a positive ripple effect.
Bartges shares research associated with Dr. Marty Seligman and Positive Psychology that identifies three keys to happiness: faith in something greater, supportive friends, and a sense of purpose.
She also cites Hopi questions (who am I, why am I, where’s my garden, where’s my water) and offers a free “Spiritual Compass” exercise on psi studies.com to clarify values and direction.
The conversation highlights gratitude as a tool for coping with difficult emotions, including self-appreciation, and includes a hospice story about her husband Paul finding humor near death and fulfilling a final purpose by reconciling his mother and brother.
We're here for our second interview with John Ray Barges, and just in case you missed my introduction last time, Ray is an incredible person. She's an author, a minister, an Emmy winning producer. She's directed communications for global corporations like Disney, SeaWorld, and Legoland, California. She's a big shot. She's played out in the big world. And she's here with us today to talk about what should we do when we ourselves are getting close to the end of this human life. Welcome back.
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233Thank you
james_2_12-18-2025_110233so nice to have you here. I know that we're all headed towards the end of this human life one of our lives and this human life. And let's talk then about what we ourselves should do when we're moving up on that end of this life. one things that you and I talked about was having. An opportunity to be kind to people. Could you talk about that a little bit?
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233Absolutely. I think it ties in with that great quote. I think it's Maya Day, Angela. Where she said people won't necessarily remember what you said, but they'll always remember how you made them feel. And so
james_2_12-18-2025_110233Oh,
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233very quote of hers. And so anytime we can do some kind little thing it, it makes a difference. It makes us feel good. It makes them feel good. It's a whole ripple effect. And this can be something as simple as if you're getting coffee and your barista has their name on their name tag, just say, thank you, Martha. And
james_2_12-18-2025_110233Right.
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233fact that you're acknowledging them as a person and thanking them, it's gonna make them feel fantastic. Just kind little things, holding a door, smiling at someone, even just smiling, making eye contact and smiling.
james_2_12-18-2025_110233I can say this, when I got a coffee yesterday I went out. I don't always do that, but I went out and and I. I told the person taking my order that what I was doing shopping and they struck up a conversation with me in a very nice way, and I can't tell you how nice that was, that they treated me like a person, I was treating them like a person too, but they did it back to me man that it's. Felt great. So yeah, it's not a small
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233No.
james_2_12-18-2025_110233I thought about it all day.
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233And so even Thomas Jefferson talked about the idea, I believe he called it elevation then, that if you're doing something kind for someone and other people see that happening, then they're gonna wanna do the same thing. So you're raising the frequency, not just for you and the person that you're having this, sweet interaction with, but everyone who's around is gonna pick up on that and then go into a happier place too. So I'm never missing an opportunity to do kind little things, and that doesn't necessarily mean giving people stuff, but just be present with them like you.
james_2_12-18-2025_110233Yeah. Oh, it
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233Yeah. And then another thing that's great, and it might be awkward at first, but with people that you're close to telling them you love them, just something like that. And at first it might be they don't quite know how to handle it. But normalizing that, we were talking about normalizing conversations about death, normalize conversations about love,
james_2_12-18-2025_110233yes. That's so great that you said it that way. That is so true. Yes. We're so hesitant in this society to say, Hey, I love you. I have friends that I've known for most of my life and I love them. I love the male friend, female friend, whatever. I love
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233Yeah.
james_2_12-18-2025_110233And I, the other day I was getting off a conversation with one of those type of friends and they said, okay, love you. And I don't know whether they did it'cause they were in a habit of doing it when they were talking to the family or whatever, but I don't care. I really appreciated it. I was so glad to
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233Yeah, because again, it's how you make them feel, because you're sharing what's in your heart and you're probably thinking that anyway. You wouldn't be hanging around with them if you didn't. Really care about them on. And so Tell them you love them. Thanking them when they do something. When you sent me that text, it made me feel great. That's exactly what I needed.
james_2_12-18-2025_110233Okay.
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233my gosh. Look at how wonderful they're gonna feel. And again, they're gonna wanna do more of that. People around them are gonna do more of that. So you're setting off the most positive chain reaction and always take the opportunity to do that.
james_2_12-18-2025_110233It. It's not in everybody's personality to do that easily, but. This is a time towards the end of our, this human life that it's not a normal situation. It, it is, it calls for a different approach, I think. And that's what we're talking about here is if you're not a big heart's on my sleeve say what you feel a person maybe it's all the more important because the people that you're gonna say it to, they haven't heard it a lot from
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233Exactly, and why not take the opportunity to change the culture for the better? There are other cultures where, you know they hug, they say, I love you, they kiss, this is just a normal thing that they do, and we're a lot more repressed here. So let's take this opportunity to take everything to a higher level, a more heart-centered level, and honestly let people know how much they mean to you.
james_2_12-18-2025_110233I think that is so great and it is all within our control.
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233Absolutely.
james_2_12-18-2025_110233I don't need anyone to do it. I don't know. I have to ask anyone to do it. I can do it myself and I can do it all day long.
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233Yeah. Yeah.
james_2_12-18-2025_110233Yeah. That's great. That's great. The phrase that you've used before and I'd like you to talk about if you could, is friends, and purpose.
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233Oh, thank you. Yeah that, when I discovered that it just, it changed so much stuff for me. This is basically it's the three things that you need in your life to be happy. And this was generated by two years of research through psychologists working at the direction of their then president, Dr. Marty Seligman. And through this information that they got about what makes people happy, we already know what messes people up. Let's study what makes them happy. And they put all this data together and they ended up creating a whole new branch of psychology, specifically called Positive psychology.
james_2_12-18-2025_110233And is at the top level of the psychology world, right? This is the National Association or something? What group was
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233Psychologists. Yeah. So
james_2_12-18-2025_110233that SEL Seligman. Is that
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233Dr. Marty Seligman. Yes.
james_2_12-18-2025_110233Yeah. Yeah. He was had become the leader of something.
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233Yeah. He was the president of the Association of Psychologists for two
james_2_12-18-2025_110233Okay.
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233year term. And so he
james_2_12-18-2025_110233Yeah.
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233determine what information they would be studying that they'd be collecting data on, and he realized, okay, so we've studied for. Decades. What messes people up? Let's study what makes people happy. And they were very surprised by the results that they got because it wasn't how beautiful you were, how rich you were if you lived in a beautiful, temporary area. None of that mattered. The three key things were, first of all, faith in something greater than us because when even before you, you consciously know that you're terminally ill. You wanna know that there is. Something positive, something bigger than you that's in the universe, and that's a key element to being happy, is knowing that there's something greater than you.
james_2_12-18-2025_110233That doesn't mean that you have to go to church every Wednesday and Sun and Sunday and all this you don't have to be a member of a particular religion to have that faith in something bigger than ourselves.
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233not at all. It can just be you have faith and compassion. You have faith in love, something positive, some loving thing. And it does not have to be organized religion. It doesn't even have to technically be spirituality. It can just be something positive that, is eternal. So
james_2_12-18-2025_110233Okay.
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233in something. Positive and big. And then the second thing is friends, and this can be one or two people who have your back, or it can be a whole tribe of like-minded people that get together and do, positive, loving things. So faith friends. And the third thing is purpose. Doing something that gives your life meaning. And that can be something like we were talking about where you take the time to just, thank the barista.
james_2_12-18-2025_110233Right.
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233Yeah. Or you let a car merge in front of you or someone let you merge and you thank them. How cool is that bringing back the wave, along with using your blinkers, but just little expressions of kindness like that, such a positive thing. As, as far as, how we see ourselves, how we see our place in the world, all of that. So faith, friends and purpose are at the heart of this. And when we. Really focus in on, okay, why am I here? What is my life about? The Hopi have four questions that they are to be prepared to answer in front of great Spirit when their time comes. And it's, who am I? Why am I, where's my garden and where's my water? And the garden is, what seeds have you planted in your life? What things have you started to do? How have your efforts paid off? And then, where's my water? What things nourish you? Where do you get your spiritual strength? Your courage and your love? Where does that come from? So being able to answer those four questions also helps you have a sense of clarity. It's okay, my life means something. I've been able to do something positive in the world while I've been here.
james_2_12-18-2025_110233And tell me again what, that's a Native American tradition or.
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233The Hopi have these four questions.
james_2_12-18-2025_110233Okay,
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233feel they need to be prepared to answer in front of the Great Spirit.
james_2_12-18-2025_110233Rather than St. Peter at the gates of heaven, a as in other religions, believe, or I've heard, I don't know if that's really true, but this is what you're gonna need to account for.
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233Yeah.
james_2_12-18-2025_110233When you get to the next
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233Yeah, when you look at a complicated research paper, they usually have a summary, what are the key points here in this big research paper? And for us it's what's the summary of your life? What are the key things that motivated you, that drove you, that you accomplished? So having
james_2_12-18-2025_110233who am I? Who am I?
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233who am I?
james_2_12-18-2025_110233And the next one is,
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233am I?
james_2_12-18-2025_110233am
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233Yeah, isn't that powerful?
james_2_12-18-2025_110233Boy, that's a big one. That's a big one.
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233It's huge because it gets into what is your spiritual purpose? Why are you in the, on, on the planet right now? What are you doing in a positive way that justifies your existence really in a spiritual sense.
james_2_12-18-2025_110233And that may not be such an easy one to answer for everyone. There are some people that really haven't thought about those things ever.
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233And that's
james_2_12-18-2025_110233I don't
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233why when we do take time to think about those, it makes our transition and our purpose in this life so much richer and so much more beautiful and purposeful. And also lets us be able to deal with the fact that, okay, so this life is coming to an end, but look at what I've done. I feel like I have accomplished what I came here to do.
james_2_12-18-2025_110233And I think it's great because it comes from inside you. You, each of us has to answer those questions for the. Themselves.
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233Because I feel this is so incredibly important to do no matter what stage of your life you're in, no matter how healthy you are, having clarity about who you are and why you are.
james_2_12-18-2025_110233Yes. Yes.
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233my water? I think that's so important. So something that I have on the homepage of my website, it's psi studies.com, so s studies dot ComCom, and scroll down and you're gonna see a thing that says Spiritual Compass, and it's a free resource, and you click on that. And it gives you a paper divided into quadrants. And the first quadrant is, I love two. And just write down 10 things that you love
james_2_12-18-2025_110233Okay.
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233deep. And then the second quadrant says I'm good at, and they're gonna be overlaps there, things that you love that you're gonna be good at. Do 10 of them. And the third one is where it starts to get a little bit more challenging because this is essential for a meaningful life. What 10 things? Are essential for you to have in your life on a daily basis. And it's hard to go 10 deep with that because on Monday someone says, how was your weekend? And you say It was fine. You got a flat tire. You
james_2_12-18-2025_110233Yes.
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233overdrew your account. You were betrayed by a friend. All these horrible things happened, but yet, oh, it was fine. It was fine. And being honest enough with yourself to go 10 deep into what is essential for meaningful life, what gives you a sense of purpose and continuity? What are the good things that you desire to bring into your life and experience? 10 deep. That is a challenge. And then the fourth quadrant is people say, I was born too. So that's like all the external influences. Like your second grade teacher said you're really good at arithmetic. You write that down. In junior high you have a very nice singing voice. Okay, write that down. Just, but things that people have reflected back to you. Throughout your life, you positive things and then after you do 10 in each category and it's gonna be challenging'cause we don't go that deep normally. Then you narrow it down to five and then three. And then with those 12 concepts, you write your, basically your declaration to the universe, your spiritual compass.'cause that's boiled down. What is meaningful, what things that you enjoy, things that you love, and things that other people have noticed about you in a positive way. And from that point on, if something comes up in your life and it doesn't fit in with one of those concepts in your declaration, in your spiritual compass, then you know, okay, that's just like a speed bump, that's just a distraction. And it helps you really focus on what truly matters. It gives you such clarity. People have changed the like their careers, they've changed the direction of their lives after doing this exercise, and they've been phenomenally happy because
james_2_12-18-2025_110233A wonderful tool and you are providing this at no charge. Anybody can go online to psi studies.com and scroll down, and look for moral
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233it says spiritual compass.
james_2_12-18-2025_110233spiritual
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233Yeah. And then you click on the little free resources tab and then it takes you right to that page where you can download the page with the four quadrants and you have the instructions on that. And people have totally changed the whole trajectory of their life after doing this because they realize, oh my gosh, I was wasting all my time on this thing, which didn't really matter to me.
james_2_12-18-2025_110233And I never really thought about it.
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233Exactly. Exactly. So no matter what age you are, I, I suggest, people choosing a college do it. I suggest people thinking of changing jobs, do it. I do it every couple years just to check in and
james_2_12-18-2025_110233Oh.
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233make sure, things are lining up because we can get so easily distracted in our life. And so it's a way to really focus on that purposeful thing, which is such a key part of being happy and having a productive, meaningful life, doing something that we feel is making a difference in the world.
james_2_12-18-2025_110233I wanted to mention that. That I'm a recovering alcoholic and I, I've attended not recently, but,'cause I've been recovering for 38 years now. But in my beginning of it, I went to a lot of AA meetings. It helped me. I couldn't have done it without aa. one of the things that, that AA Alcoholics Anonymous does is it provides a. Framework of how to live because they have a million sayings, but one of them is it's not stopping drinking that's so hard. It's living without drinking. It living life. And so they try to help you to how do you go about this living, without alcohol? And and one of the things that is, it reminded me of it, was that the faith aspect of faith, friends, and purpose, and it's crucial to have I believe in a power greater than myself. And and I know as I was going through aa it was a long time ago and I really struggled a little bit.'Cause I didn't really know what I was believing at that point in time. But, you had to, if you really wanted to. Live a good life and to be successful in your alcohol recovery, you had to cover that territory. And they recognize it as part of a happy life, part of a successful life. And it's true that, that, and that was one of the things that the study found, the scientific study found that's key. That, and and friends. And purpose and I know that in, in aging, which I look a lot about aging and how to age well these days, one of the most important aspects of that is having a group of people that you go through aging with. And that's it. The friends, Hey, you gotta have friends. And that's, I think it's even been shown scientifically that it's more effective in longevity than whether you smoked or drank or exercised. It's, did you have friends? Did you have close friends? Or that a group of people and so yeah so important and I guess I, I went off on a little rant there, but I was very happy to do,
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233No, I think that's beautiful stuff because you're a magnificent example of when you consciously choose to have those things in your life it propels you forward in a positive way. And
james_2_12-18-2025_110233yes.
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233because what you're focusing on is what is this positive, loving thing that's greater than me? Who are these people who have my back, who I trust, who I, they've seen me at my worst. And they still love me and they encourage me to be my best. And then how can I be making a difference? What purposeful, meaningful things am I doing? Who am I? Why am I,
james_2_12-18-2025_110233Right.
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233and kudos to you. Thank you for sharing how you've traveled that path in a such a powerful, positive way.
james_2_12-18-2025_110233Oh, I have, and it's no joke, but I'm still here to tell a tale because of it. And one, and I saw that another aspect on, I'm looking at some notes that I made earlier that another aspect, which is also huge in AA is gratitude.
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233Absolutely. Gratitude is almost like the silver bullet into higher consciousness because when you're focusing on what you have and you're being grateful for that, more of that comes to you. It really is. It's. Law of attraction kind of makes it sound like it's just, like what you believe you achieve, go deeper than that. It's like what really truly matters and being grateful for the things that, that are coming to you that are in your life, and then more of them happen. It's like what we choose to focus on. Absolutely. We draw more of it to us.
james_2_12-18-2025_110233So in our path towards the completion of this human life, that gratitude for everything, for what we have to other people, for things they've done. Just like we would like to have a listing of other people's gratitude to us for what we've done. Then that is an opportunity for us to do the same to all those people that have To let them know that really helped me, that meant a lot to me. Or your example was, the thing I needed and at that time, and I followed what you do and what a wonderful gift to give others as, as well as yourself to have, take that time and effort to do that to,
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233You bring up a beautiful point with that, Jim, because we are so good at like shrugging off compliments. Not really valuing what our contributions are,
james_2_12-18-2025_110233yes.
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233something that came to me in a meditation was make, look at yourself in the mirror. Make eye contact with yourself and say out loud, I love you, John Ray, and the first time I did that, after I got that meditation, I felt an electric shock go through my body.
james_2_12-18-2025_110233Oh
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233I had never thought of that. Like actually appreciating myself, loving myself, thanking myself. And so that's another key part of gratitude, feeling gratitude for what you yourself as this individual spark of divine light. What have you done? What have you created and thanking yourself for that. And it shifts everything. When we're in gratitude, this is science again.'cause I love combining science of spirituality. Your brain is spreading out different chemicals when you're in that state of gratitude. And so something that I tell people is embrace all your emotions. Brilliant. Neuroimmunologist, Dr. Candace Pert she's the one who discovered the opiate receptor. And she also discovered that each cell of our body has a separate consciousness. And something that she said was that our emotions are what link our physical self with our spiritual and mental self. And so when we tried to deny our emotions, it's I won't worry about that now. What we're doing effectively is keeping ourselves out of balance. And so it's like acknowledging all the emotions, and then it's okay to feel anger. It's okay to feel overwhelm and grief, but it's not okay to stay in that space. So
james_2_12-18-2025_110233Right.
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233when we acknowledge that, it's like I'm feeling overwhelmed right now, or I'm grieving the fact that, oh my God, I'm dying. Oh, this is horrible. It's okay, sit with that and now find something in, in the moment within that, that you can authentically feel gratitude for. Something we had talked about at the beginning was grief remembers the love that created it, and so when we're in grief. What can we still be grateful for? We can be grateful for all the years that we've had, all the people that we've gotten to meet, all the ways that we've been able to impact them in a positive way. All the little kind things that we've done. Find gratitude in whatever that lower frequency emotion is, and that automatically starts to raise you up and helps you cope with whatever is going on. It's another quote from the Richard Bach book, illusions is, there's no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hands. And we seek problems because we want the gifts. And so being able to look into a situation even as you're like literally on your deathbed and finding something that you can be grateful for. Yeah, I'm grateful I had these years. I'm grateful I had these opportunities and that I was able to give back, that I was able to forgive people, that I was able to tell people that I love them. To thank people like that, take the gratitude level up there and you, it's a superpower. It literally is a superpower when you can instantly switch into gratitude.
james_2_12-18-2025_110233And I wanna just address one issue in relation to that.'cause when you talked about looking yourself in the eye and saying, I love you. I felt immediately. Very uneasy and uncomfortable when you said that, and I'm sure I'm not the only person that would feel that way. and the same with feeling good about yourself and thinking about those positive things. I I guess I want to encourage myself and encourage other people that they need to know that you don't have to get it the first time. You don't have to get it the first moment. You don't have to all of a sudden, immediately. Be able to feel this great gratitude and happiness with yourself and your life. I I just think it, but it is a out of a time. I think that you can't, you don't have time to put it off., This is the time. If you put it off your whole life thinking about, am I any good or why am I here? Or who am I and what makes me happy? If you put it off, it's good time to think about it because this way you can. You can figure out. Yeah, but you know what? I did things for other people. I you can start to generate if you take time and you accept the fact that you're not gonna get it immediately,
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233Yeah
james_2_12-18-2025_110233cause you haven't done it, your whole life. So your're probably not gonna be able to just jump into it.
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233exactly.
james_2_12-18-2025_110233Right.
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233getting exactly what you just said and also just being realistic about the fact that at some point you are going to be a memory, and so you can make sure that you're gonna be a good memory by doing these things, by using these tools. By never missing an opportunity to be kind by forgiving everybody, everything, all these things. Be a good memory, be a good memory.
james_2_12-18-2025_110233And I know that one thing that you have taken a lot of comfort from is when your husband, Paul, was pretty close to death, he was able to find humor.
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233Oh yes, we're, I'm glad you brought that up. We're checking In the hospice in San Diego, he only has a few more hours of consciousness left. And this was back in 2001, so there were still CD players everywhere. And there was a stack of CDs in his hospice room. And so he walked over to the stack of CDs, he pulled out a peri como cd and he held it up and he said to the hospice nurse, I'm not dead yet. And so this wonderful hospice social worker who had been working with us for months and I we'd been crying, but we were laughing through our tears because that was so perfectly him.
james_2_12-18-2025_110233It was so
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233Yeah. And one other thing I wanna throw in about that, we were talking about the why am I, what's the purpose of your life? And Paul and I talked about death a lot, which gave both of us great. And I asked him, what are you still here to do? What haven't you accomplished yet that you wanna accomplish? And he said that he had hoped that he could fix the relationship between his mom and his older brother Spoken for 10 years and he really wanted to bring them together. And he had tried conversations all this and it hadn't worked.
james_2_12-18-2025_110233Yeah.
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233The way this happened, I had also had a vision that I wasn't gonna be with him when he died. And we talked about that and we were both okay with that. He's in hospice and my sister-in-law, who I love dearly said, let me take you back to the house. You can grab a nap, you can take a shower, and then we'll come back. And so we had just left hospice and we got the call that Paul had died. And the thing was, he was in the bed, unconscious. His brother was holding his one hand and his mother was holding the other. So with his very last breath, Paul brought them together and then they continued to be connected then until his mom died shortly after that. But that was his final thing that he
james_2_12-18-2025_110233Wow.
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233to do. So this whole sacred purpose, there's a whole sacred pattern going on, and we can choose to see that we can choose to trust and to feel love and feel purpose and it makes everything. So sacred and beautiful and peaceful. There's still grief, there's still sorrow, but grief remembers the love that created it. And so we soldier through, we navigate the sacred passage that everybody's gonna do. And it's such a sense of grace and peace that comes with it when we're doing it consciously, intentionally, and with love.
james_2_12-18-2025_110233On that note let's finish up today's interview. It's been beautiful to think about helping ourselves and others to, to finish up life so beautifully, and I thank you so much. You're really inspirational. John Ray, thank you so much for being
happy-medium--her-she-_2_12-18-2025_110233Thank you for.