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The Empathetic Trainer
Welcome to ”The Empathetic Trainer,” the podcast that explores the power of empathetic animal training
Animals just want to be heard. This is an emerging trend among trainers, veterinarians, pet professionals and animal lovers just like yourself. Join us as we learn the challenges our guests faced, as they grew their understanding and connection with the animals in their lives.
The Empathetic Trainer
Jessica Gonzales - Every Horse and Every Person Deserves a Second Chance S3 E25
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In this episode of The Empathetic Trainer podcast, host Barbara O’Brien chats with Jessica Gonzalez, a dedicated horse rescuer and author of Equine Empowerment. They discuss how horses help people heal, the power of positive reinforcement training, and the deep bond between horses and young people. Jessica shares her journey, the challenges of running a nonprofit, and the importance of trust, patience, and second chances—both for horses and humans.
Key Takeaways:
- Horses provide healing and companionship, especially for those struggling socially.
- Positive reinforcement builds trust between horses and people.
- Understanding horse behavior and emotions improves training.
- Working with rescue horses teaches patience, resilience, and empathy.
- Jessica’s nonprofit empowers youth through equine therapy.
- Every horse—and every person—deserves a second chance.
Tune in for an inspiring conversation on love, trust, and the transformative power of horses!
https://www.empathetic-trainer.com/
Welcome and Introduction
Speaker 1Hi, I'm Barbara O'Brien. I'm an animal trainer and photographer and I'd like to welcome you to the Empathetic Trainer. Hi, this is Barbara O'Brien and you're listening to the Empathetic Trainer Podcast. Today's guest is Jessica Gonzalez. She's a lifetime horse rescuer and author of Equine Empowerment a Guide to Positive Reinforcement Training. She runs Empowered Equines Rescue and Empowered Equestrians Educational Program. Welcome to the podcast, jessica.
Speaker 2Hi, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1So those of you who are watching us on YouTube there's a cat that is like really stealing the show. So before we even get started, we better introduce the cat.
Speaker 2This is Night Fury. He's named after the dragon from how to Train your Dragon, and he's very, very friendly. A little too friendly.
Speaker 1That's no harm in that we like that, so now we all know his name. So, everyone, you don't have to worry about this sweet cat coming in and out. Well, I found you on Facebook, which is where I find a lot of my horse people and you're doing a lot of interesting stuff. And now that I see you face to face I'm like, wow, you're young, which is great. So why don't you just give us a little introduction about, like, how you even got started with animals? I mean, were you, did you always have horses? Were you an animal? You know kind of like your little backstory. First, let's let's learn about you a little bit.
Speaker 2Yeah. So I grew up loving animals but I never had any. I lived in like the deep city and I found I was pretty young when I found my obsession with animals, and horses in particular. So I found a rescue to volunteer at that was within driving distance and I volunteered there every weekend and as I grew up, every time I started looking for jobs or doing anything in my life, I just kept circling back to animals.
Speaker 2So when I got my own house and my own horse, the owner of the rescue that I grew up at got sick and she passed away and a few of her horses had to come live with me and at that point we just said, okay, this is what we're doing and started our own rescue. And I was kind of one of those lost kids who had trouble making friends and didn't really get along with humans and the rescue was kind of like a light in my life. So I wanted to make sure that my rescue provided that for kids too. I wanted to make sure we had an active kids program for really anybody who wanted to spend time with animals and focus on the relationship aspect, not just the training or riding part of horses.
Speaker 1Oh for sure that's wonderful, and for you to be able to do it now, when you're young, is also wonderful. So how old were you when you started going to the rescues on the weekends? We have similar stories, and so I really feel for you. Did your folks have to drive you, or you know like, how old were you and what did they think of your? You know obsession at that point.
Speaker 2Yeah, they had to drive me about 45 minutes and they would drop me off in the morning and pick me up at night because I wanted to be there as many hours as I could. And, yeah, it was tricky. I was about nine when I started exploring horses and finding places to play with horses, but I was 13 when I found the rescue and finding places to play with horses, but I was 13 when I found the rescue and that's really where, like that was where I felt I wanted to be because I could spend the whole day loving on the horses and being with the horses. And, you know, I got to ride sometimes, but not very often. It was really more about spending time with them and building a relationship, and that's really what I was looking for out of that situation.
Speaker 1Sure. So you found early on that horses were healing for you and they were a help for you as you were growing up, maybe not connecting as well with your peers, things like that. So many animal people have similar stories. Animals don't judge and they like us just the way we are, and so it's pretty cool that you kind of had this intuition already. So tell us how. Let's start with the rescue. What kind of? From what I understand, you're not only rescuing horses, which is great, and I've done that too through Forever Morgans, with Morgan horses, you know, and things like that you are rescuing humans in a way. I mean, actually the animals are rescuing the humans, but you're making it possible, and what a gift. So maybe if you could tell us a little bit how, how did the young people or the people you're working with, the children, young people I don't know your age group how did that come about? And how did you find suitable horses? Did the horses? I find horses just no, but did you know kind of? Tell us a little bit about that.
Jessica’s Journey into Animal Rescue
Speaker 2So as soon as you move horses into a farm, kids start appearing. We, we, literally we have this volunteer who she's been here for four years now and I found her hiding in the bushes beside my barn and watching our Clydesdales in the yard and she was just. You could see her just dreaming of like how amazing it would be to spend time with those horses and I just like, come on over, you can come groom them. And she, she's been a volunteer for four years since. Oh my god so. So I mean, it wasn't hard to find kids who needed animals. Um, it was kind of true.
Speaker 2It is kind of tricky finding animals that are suitable for our kids because we don't. We don't take in animals suitable for our kids. We take in rescues who have major life issues. You have two blind horses. We have a neurological horse, we have one who came to us. Well, we have several who came to us for aggression issues. So it's like how do I just throw a bunch of kids in with them? Yeah, yeah, we have kids from six years old to 60 years old.
Speaker 2So we have all ages, but mostly it's the six to 15 range, that is, you know, they're here every day and really obsessed, and then they get jobs and have to be adults. Sure, sure.
Speaker 1But what a wonderful gift you've given them that relationship with the horse. I know for myself being awkward and just my personality being different horses. When I was able to finally start working for my riding lessons when I was 12, so I understand I had a mentor, an older lady. It kept me out of trouble, out of depression. They still keep me out of depression. You know, I still have horses. And it was like all the way through high school, you know, all the way, even though I had a job. It's like I just kept with it and I'm still not. I loped so I could have a horse when I was 19. And we're still, 43 years later, we still married, we still have horses. So it worked out. But that gift that you give those young people to feel good about themselves and the lessons they learn, so so say, you've got, um, a horse. That can you give me like a story? Can you tell me about a particular horse and a particular child maybe, like how did that work out?
Speaker 2oh man, I don't even know who to choose because they're all so special. Um, there we have. Let's see, we've got a neurological pony. He's a warm blood pony cross.
Speaker 1Okay, so neurological. Just so we understand means.
Speaker 2Somewhere in his spine the connections aren't being made down to the rest of his body. So he's quite clumsy, he falls easily, he doesn't have great sensation in his hind limbs and he's very frantic all the time.
Speaker 1Well, yeah, because his horse's line of defense is to escape. And if he feels he can't escape. Naturally that would cause concern for him.
Speaker 2Yeah, and he's super sweet, he loves people, so we rescued him when he was. He can't escape. Naturally that would cause concern for him. Yeah, and he's super sweet, he loves people. So we rescued him when he was only two months old, but he and his mom were bones. So we think that being starved at such a developmental stage is probably why he's so neurological and why it hasn't changed throughout his life, because it's not changing with the development of his spine. He's 10 now, so he's really stable in that he can live a good quality of life, but he'll never be able to be ridden because he can't like carry himself, let alone a rider Right right.
Speaker 2So he's kind of stuck with us because I wouldn't trust sending him out into the world where somebody might think they could get away with riding him.
Speaker 1Yeah. And then Someone gets hurt. A horse gets hurt, yeah.
Speaker 2Exactly.
Speaker 1What's his name, this pony?
Speaker 2His name is Zephyr and he is not a gentle breeze, he is a hurricane and he's like I always joke, he's like an ADHD four-year-old boy. He's just super busy, he's very intelligent, he understands spatial awareness better than any horse I've ever known. Like we play a game with him where we'll put a ball, throw it into his stall and he has to get it out his stall door and sometimes it'll get stuck behind something or like go in a weird path and he has to figure out how to get it out of stall door. And he's really good at that, sure, and you're really good at that Sure, and you're talking a good sized ball, yeah.
Speaker 2Yeah, like a jolly ball. Yeah, not like a tennis ball.
Speaker 1I think it's like a little baseball, I'm just because some of them aren't going to be horse people.
Speaker 2Okay, yeah, a good a ball but they don't really have that concept of how to maneuver the ball where they want it to go. Yeah, it's pretty smart. Yeah, he really is. He's a very intelligent horse, but he's super hyper and really frantic and like he can't concentrate for more than a second.
Speaker 2And we've got this um, 13 year old girl who is exactly the same personality and in some ways, you know, at first I was like these two should never work together because they are, you know, crazy and crazy, you know, and they, they amp each other up totally. So there there are a lot of days where we're like, okay, we're going to stop and we're going to breathe, and we actually taught Zephyr to take a deep breath on cue so that he would stop and breathe sometimes, yeah, yeah. So it was actually a cool exercise for his. They took the situation. She's a sweet, sweet girl, but she's very hyper, very active, she does jujitsu, she does horses, she's just on the go 100 miles an hour, um, and she struggles with, uh, mental health issues. Um, it's just hard to be a teenager in this world, right now.
Speaker 2It's hard for every single one of them, yeah yeah and um, and where she is so hyper and so active, I think that can be a lot for some kids. So she has a hard time making friends and Zephyr is the perfect friend for her and we kind of took it as a learning opportunity for both of them. You have to help Zephyr learn how to cope with his anxiety, his stress, like learn his coping skills, and in doing so she's learning her own coping skills.
Speaker 1You've empowered her to help something else, someone else you know, and by helping someone else it helps her, which builds confidence and and the ability to regulate. So they're helping each other regulate.
Speaker 2That's, that's the goal and they do it really well. Sometimes they do work each other up instead of bring each other back down, but sometimes we've also taken recently they've been doing really well in their training. We always focus on, like, the core behaviors. You know, can you move your body parts away from me when I ask, can you? Can you stop and stand still when I ask those safety things? Yes, and they've just done so well with that that recently I've been saying let's embrace what you two have. You guys are the most exuberant, fun, active, playful people and horse just just have fun, like so long as we can bring ourselves back down to calm. Why don't you go do the things that you can't do with the other horses because they're too quiet, too laid back, too too resigned.
Speaker 1So it's become a really beautiful partnership because of that Sounds wonderful and it sounds wonderful, so that's a good lead-in to talking about. Oh, there's my puppy. That's better To talk about positive reinforcement and force-free animal care and the way you work with them, because, as you know, I train animal actors and of course it has to be very fun, I mean because that's the animal's idea.
Speaker 1You know, we can't make a cat do anything unless he wants to you know, so I understand that and a lot of my audience is extremely interested in positive reinforcement and of course that's a very broad term. So it's like let's not get into the science of it. There's four quadrants. People can learn that, because otherwise they're going to argue with me and go like you're not even talking about the right thing. So let's just be very general about it.
Speaker 1So I'm curious when you're building this relationship with these horses that have come with their own traumas and their own backgrounds and I imagine you give them some time to decompress and you move at their pace, you're not going to push anybody into anything. Same thing with a child or a young person that needs help. You're not going to go what's wrong with you, you know. You might see what's happening to you, but not what's wrong with you, you know. And so the same thing with a horse or anything else. So how does that work, the force-free animal care and training? And are you using treats? Because there's a big controversy about how to use treats properly.
Speaker 2You know things like that. So, yeah, let's just kind of start like what does that look like? So, yes, we use treats, we use primarily, we use hay pellets, just because we can kind of be loose and wild with them because Right.
Speaker 1So for our audience it'd be like a compressed alfalfa or compressed Timothy hay. It's a small little pellet so you're not feeding giant handfuls, getting too much for the horse or too sugary, too sweet for horses that have problems with that. It's just something they desire and like, but it's not. It's the difference between a regular dog treat piece of steak versus a piece of steak. It's just something that you can continually do without causing any dietary problem for the horse but still motivating Exactly problem for the horse, but still motivating, right?
Speaker 2Yep, Because, like, if a 1,000 pound horse eats 15 to 20 pounds of hay a day, well, one or two pounds of hay pellets is not going to make a big impact on their diet every day. So especially, I think that it's really cool when people come to our program and they see we've got kids throwing food at horses every which way and our horses are better behaved than most you'd ever see in the world because they understand the game, they understand how to work for the food, how to work with the kids and they they understand the process of it all.
Speaker 1so we don't have issues with horses being pushy or mugging the person or whatever, because they know that if I wait and do you know, do A or B or whatever, I will be rewarded. So what's the cue Like? Do they turn their head away a little bit?
Speaker 2Or how do you tell them that you know you can't mug me so generally, if we have a horse who's ready to go, the first thing we teach them is stand still face forward, and that I kind of equate to like a dog's sit stay. Yes, can you just stand here and not do anything for a minute? While I move around you, while I brush you, while I get the stuff ready, you just stand here and chill and not be in my space. And once they have that well established where I can really move comfortably around them, then we generally teach them to touch target. And because with dogs we tend to use a lot of food luring, but with horses we need that extra space between us and them. And I find that horses, if you lure them directly with food, they tend to get focused on the food and they're not really thinking about what behavior got the food. The behavior is chase the food. So using a target really helps them.
Speaker 1Can you explain for our audience what you mean by a target?
Speaker 2then oh, yeah, a target is any object that they touch with their nose to get a click and a treat, and generally I use we have these dollar store fluffy dusters that are extendable, so you can make it really small, like a Swiffer sort of. Yeah, it's like a Swiffer. Yeah, and you can make it small and it just looks like a fluffy ball and you can make it long, so it's on like a fluffy ball and you can make it long, so it's on a stick to give you some space, Yep exactly, so you can lead the horse.
Speaker 2With that you could. We do a lot of agility with the kids and the horses. So at first they're literally just following a target over an obstacle or around a barrel or something like that, and then over time we fade out the target and we get all the behaviors on cue. But it's a nice, easy way for kids to work safely with the horses, even doing fun active things like going over a jump. But the horse is just following a target.
Speaker 1That's got to be thrilling for a young person if they've been working with the horse and the horse wants to play and the horse wants to be with them. It's got to be thrilling Because you know we can subject horses to. You know, I'm going to ride you, I'm going to do this, I'm going to do that. It's all the human's agenda, right. But when you're doing sort of like liberty, we would train a dog for a movie or something, you know what I mean, like positive animal training, uh, it's gotta be just a blast. I mean, the horse feels good, kid feels good. You know, everybody's winning here.
Speaker 2Yeah, it really is. Um, I think some kids, they they have a hard time with the social aspect of it because all their friends are going to regular riding barns and they are doing something so different, um, and it's hard to you know. Oh, we ride, but our focus is sending them from one target to another and their friend is like, well, I just want a ribbon at a show, and that can be really hard, um, but we try to make it fun for them and I think that most of our kids are here for the connection and the relationship and so, even if they don't get the big competitions or showing off in front of their friends, they really see the benefit that they're building a relationship with their horse and it's the horse has a lot more choice and control over their situation.
Speaker 1So let's talk about your book. Does your book explain sort of the techniques that you were just talking about? Your book is called equine empowerment a guide to positive reinforcement training yep, our book, um it.
Speaker 2We really go heavy into the sciences. We talk about the three sciences. I think a lot of people focus just on behavioral science. Um, which is important, that's how we're modifying their behavior. But we also talk a lot about ethology of the horse. So ethology is really sorry, that's my donkey braying really loud.
The Emotional Healing of Horses and Kids
Speaker 1I love it Let him in, let him in.
Speaker 2I know I don't know what he's going on about, but ethology is kind of the study of who horses are in nature and how they behave, how they interact and what their needs are, and understanding ethology is really important to meeting their needs in domestication. If we don't understand how horses would live if they had free choice, we don't know how to make their life appropriate in domestication. And then the third science that I go into pretty heavily is neuroscience of emotions. I'm kind of a neuroscience geek, so I really love to understand how emotions work, how they influence ourselves and our body and our behaviors, and how we can help build healthier mental health for everyone.
Speaker 1Young people must see pretty easily, pretty quickly, that if they come upset, the horse can feel that, but they can. What I've learned is if I'm upset or whatever, I can say to the horse I'm upset and I've had a bad day, instead of trying to cover it up and pretend I'm something I'm not, because the horse is going to know that I'm covering up. Or if I'm afraid, I can say you know, I'm a little afraid, I need to take a breath, you know I need to whatever, as opposed to bullying through, because we're always taught as horse people, you know, just get back on. You know what I mean. And the horse goes wait, your emotions aren't matching your body.
Speaker 1I'm getting two different signals and that's more upsetting for a horse than if I had just flat out said I'm a little afraid, I'm going to take a pause, I'm going to, we're just going to breathe through. You know, I'm going to figure this out together. We'll figure this out. Do you find your young people pick up on that? Like, learn that pretty easily. Like, be authentic with themselves. It's better for the horse and then work on regulating.
Speaker 2I think so. It's interesting because we have kids that have come from traditional programs and moved here and they come with that very masked defense.
Speaker 2Yeah, they're very focused on I have to look tough, I have to look brave, and you know you'll tell them to do something and you'll see them. You know, super nervous, like tiptoeing around the horses, and then you're like just stop, you don't have to do, you don't have to go that far, you can slow down you, we can break this into steps for you and um. But then the kids that have grown up with only this, they've seen how we model it with the horses. You know, if a horse starts to amp up, we immediately break down the criteria, we make it into small steps, we focus on relaxation and just the other day we have a young Mustang that we're training how to ride.
Speaker 1Yeah, challenge.
Speaker 2He came to us because he flunked out of a Mustang training program and he was too aggressive for them even to begin handling, so he was never handled. When we got him and he was quite aggressive. He turned his fear into anger very quickly and he was young and he had to fight for all of his resources, all the. He was put into a holding pen with all these adult stallions and he was only a yearling. Oh, so he he had to fight for anything he wanted, um, so he was extreme resource guarder. He was very aggressive. The first year we had him, um it was. It was a long year of a lot of just generous, just conditioning, classically conditioning humans as not a bad thing we're not here to take your food.
Speaker 1It's really good you say that, because most people will not take the time it takes to get a horse to trust his environment and trust you know what's happening around him, especially one that's off the range. You know, with no good human experiences and been around, you know horses that were too hard on him. So cause most people are like I got a new horse and I'm going to ride him two days from now and expect him to like, be not upset at all about being uprooted from his friends, uprooted from a because they love routine, being uprooted from a routine Even though he's a calm horse, maybe the dangers of a new place he hasn't figured out. Is that dangerous? Is that not dangerous? Because that's his wiring to worry about things. They don't give him the benefit of the doubt. And a horse that's just letting a horse be a horse and that continually showing up, showing up as a positive thing, with no expectations. I'm not going to make you do anything, I'm just going to. I'm just going to let you be a horse.
Speaker 1What a healing time for the horse.
Speaker 2It took him a long time it did, and a lot longer than most of our horses. Um, and honestly, even after we kind of got him over the hump of immediately seeing a human and becoming angry and frustrated and resource guarding and defensive, we could start training behaviors, but it was a very slow process. So it's been about three years before. Now we feel like, okay, he's like a normal horse now. You know, you can put a halter on him, you can lead him somewhere, you can do agility. And there's still You're still watching his emotional level to make sure he's not spiking, but he's mostly normal.
Speaker 1Yeah, so this is Marigold. Marigold, a cat just walked into frame. For those of you that are only listening we had a donkey named Marigold. Okay, there you go, there you go. You don't want to see that.
Speaker 2So we had one of our kids' students she's 12, and she has been the one who's been working with him and training him how to ride and a couple days ago she was really feeling nervous about riding and she didn't want to tell me and she told one of the other kids. One of the other kids told me, like she's just not into it today, she's kind of nervous, and I pulled her aside and I told her if you have a reason why today you're not comfortable riding, don't get on. You're right. You're reading this situation. You're reading the horse in front of you. You're reading yourself in the moment. If I'm feeling uncomfortable today, I'm not in the right mindset to get on a horse, that I'm that's going to feel that and be made more nervous by that. And we made it a really big deal for her to to be super honest about our emotions and that she's advocating for her horse's needs. That she's advocating for her needs. And we went. We did something really fun with him instead and it was a good day.
Speaker 1Everybody was happy in the end.
Speaker 2Yeah, why push through, only to have something bad inevitably happen, because that's when it's going to happen.
Speaker 1Let's give that. You know, didn't I learn that lesson the hard way? I hear you. I hear you, yeah, okay, let's see, I'm going to look at my notes here. Okay, so we talked about your book, positive Reinforcement, running the Rescue. Okay, so how do the young people find you? Is this like something formal? Is there like? I mean, how do they? I know it's a lot of word, I'm guessing a lot of word of mouth, but do you work with you know county services? Do you work with you know schools? I mean, how do they find you? And then did you have to go through particular? You know vetting to be working with young people. Do you have volunteers that you have to like, like in 4-H, for instance? Everyone goes through a background check. You know, I'm asking this because I just I love the concept of your program and I'm wondering how a person could duplicate it other places, because there's certainly a need.
Speaker 2Yeah, so there's really not any formality to how to run a program like this. Unfortunately, because we're not officially a therapeutic riding program or therapeutic horsemanship program, um, but I did take the time to get certified as a path international therapeutic riding instructor Um, and that's all very traditional. It's not positive reinforcement, it's not um, are they?
Speaker 1traditionally when uh like special needs, um, uh, you know, special not so much the method, much mental health sometimes, but more physical, it's more, yeah, physical adaptations Sometimes it's autism or you know.
Speaker 2It's really focused on teaching the student how to ride a horse around, whatever their needs might be.
Speaker 1So it's different might be.
Speaker 2So it's different. Yeah, it's a different type of program, but I felt it was important for me to have that background just so that I could, you know, have a broader scope of what the needs might be and and understand how to adapt things where we might need some adaptations. We do have a lot of students on the autism spectrum. We do have a lot of students with mental health disorders and learning my personal boundaries. I worked a lot with counselors and social workers to learn where do I?
Speaker 2put my walls up, Because it is hard yeah because you can't.
Speaker 1You know, if love could fix them, they'd all be cured, and it just doesn't work quite that way. You know, obviously you're doing what you can and sharing in the way you can, and so I'm sure they are, and everybody around them. We're all grateful for people like you, because young people, especially young people, going through stuff, they are not always easy and sometimes you know they can lash out. There can be issues, you know they can lash out. There can be issues, you know, and it's like they're hurting somehow, just like a horse, and it's like not personal. Let's, let's figure out how we can help. So you know, good on you and you. Do you have a team, or is it just you, or how does that work?
Speaker 2um, so it is just me, um, but we've been growing in the last few years and now we have got a few more adults in our program as volunteers and they're helping a lot with the business side of things, so that it's a little bit less intense for me, because I've been trying to wear every hat of this program. We're a nonprofit and we have a website, we have an educational program, we have the kids program and the rescue aspect of the program. So it's a lot like I had to learn how to make a website. I don't know how to do that, you're very good at social media.
Speaker 1That's how I found you.
Speaker 2I've been trying. I'm not really. The kids taught me that.
Speaker 1You put out articles on social media and that's how I found you, because I wouldn't have found you otherwise, and so that's cool. Um, so we will be putting like links to your, to your um, non-profit and you know all that stuff. But how can people help um now locally? Great, they can get in touch with you. So where are you located?
Speaker 2so we're in in Maine, york Maine, so it's like right over the border of New Hampshire, all right.
Speaker 1Beautiful country, I'm sure, and for those of us that can't physically come, they just direct them to your website and there's ways that they can help or they can learn more, things like that, of course.
Speaker 2Yeah, our website. Donations are always welcome. We are run completely on public donations. So we have 13 equines and a sheep and lots of cats that are all fed by public donations, so we really appreciate that. Also, anything just spreading the word about positive reinforcement A big part of our program. We can only hold about 13 equines. That's not very many in the grand scheme of things. So a big part of our program is trying to make the world better so that we don't need to rescue as many so education, so spreading the education is huge for us.
Speaker 1Oh that's. That's really a great program. Lots of, lots of parts to it. Okay, you have kind of a lovely quote here. Maybe we can talk about this. You said we live in a world of disposable things. You are not one of them. You are irreplaceable. One of a kind there will never be another. You, you're not disposable, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. I love that because I'm sure so many young people, and older people too, feel they're worthless, feel that they're just not any good to anybody. With the young people that I've worked with, that depression and low self-esteem and feeling like they can't contribute and nobody wants them it's devastating. How have you found that being around the horses helps build confidence and that can help improve that?
Speaker 2Well, I think that that's where our program really stands out above other programs, because our program is the place that disposable horses go. Horses, by nature, are treated disposably, so if they are useful to humans they'll be given a good life, but the minute they're not able to be used, they're, they're thrown out, um, even if it's temporary, um, I think, more so than any other pet animal. Um, because they're kind of trapped between livestock pets and sports equipment and it's not cheap to take care of a horse, I mean it sure isn't.
Speaker 2So if you have one horse and you want to ride, sometimes that means that you have to get rid of a horse so that you can get a rideable horse, and that is really unfortunate and I really feel like that's not a lesson that our kids should be learning. Um, I mean, we wouldn't want them to do that to grandma when grandma can't play anymore. We should really be teaching our kids that, you know, if not a lifetime commitment if you can't promise a lifetime, at least promise that you're going to make sure that they go somewhere safe and that they're going to be cared for for their lifetime too. So I think, in seeing the way that we treasure each horse as an individual is really kind of points back to the kids too. You know, we have blind horses who couldn't be ridden, we have animals with trauma. We have horses that have worked.
Speaker 2Um, we have one who worked at a large theme park in florida, whose name I'm not allowed to say, and uh, he, you know he was. He worked really. He did a great job in his life and when he couldn't work anymore, he needed to find a home to go to and that's where we came in and he is just treasured here. He's like everybody's favorite. So I think for people to see that second chances are available, that you know, no matter what you've been through, second chances are available. That you know, no matter what you've been through, no matter what your disability might be or what your differences are, there's a place in the world for you and you'll be loved for for that you know.
Speaker 1Yeah, absolutely that's. That's great. Okay, now it's time from the questions which we took from Tim Ferriss's excellent book. What book would you recommend and why?
Training Techniques: Positive Reinforcement in Action
Speaker 2I think Plenty and Life is Free from Kathy Stout that one to me. You know I think we've read all the science books about positive reinforcement. But Plenty and Life is Free is really focused on. It doesn't have to be a contingency, it doesn't have to be a deal, an arrangement. We can just love each other and love and food we should use that.
Speaker 1And good stuff I love you right now, that's for sure.
Speaker 2Yeah, it's free. You can give love for free and it doesn't cost you anything and it doesn't hurt anyone. So just share it, especially with our animals and our kids. Um, just why you don't have to put everything on life, on contingency, you don't have to make everything a deal. You know, and I think, I think that for me, that book made a big impact on me, and the title of the book again Plenty and Life is Free.
Speaker 1And who wrote it?
Speaker 2I think Kathy Stow.
Speaker 1Okay, okay, well, good, all right. What is the most valuable thing that you put your time into? That has changed the course of your life?
Speaker 2that you put your time into. That has changed the course of your life. Probably the rescue that I grew up at. I was trying to think if there was anything different, but it really was that I grew up at that rescue and it gave me my mindset of providing a safe place for horses, especially horses at their end of life who have been kind of let down by their humans, to give them a place where they can get what they deserve a good end of life.
Speaker 1So that's great, that's good. In the last five years, what new belief, behavior or habit has most improved your life?
Speaker 2that's tricky. Um, let's see, I think belief is um. Originally, I was very focused on behavioral science and then I kind of started to realize that all these sciences, all these different, um ways of looking at animals, are all looking at the same picture and they're not against each other, they're complementary to each other. So it's this idea that, um, you know, a lot of people are like well, it's strict behaviorism or strict emotional, like relationship building, and but there's, there's a heavy balance to all of it and you can find, I feel, like the truth is always in the middle.
Speaker 1That is so true. That is so true. She's sitting on my question so I have to move the cat. Okay, what inspires and motivates you?
Speaker 2to do what you do and what is your true purpose in the world? The kids and the horses, obviously, and I think the fact that the need exists motivates me to do it. I think that I needed it so much as a kid growing up, I needed animals in my life. I needed horses, and they helped me survive, they helped me overcome my growth and they helped me develop into a person I'm proud to be, so I want that for every other kid that's in that same situation.
Speaker 1Yeah, it's a good thing. It's a good thing and you're doing it.
Speaker 2I'm trying some days, some days easier than most.
Speaker 1The last question what did you want to be as a child, and how close did you get to that dream?
Speaker 2I absolutely wanted to be a horse rescuer. I had all different ideas of what that would look like, but I knew that. I think when I worked in that I worked as a carriage driver in the city because that was the only job that had horses in the city and that's when I narrowed it down to. I want to rescue draft horses that have been working, but, yeah, yeah, I always wanted to be a horse rescuer.
Speaker 1Well, and you are. That's that's pretty great. Okay, so let's just recap. You can give out the name of your website to we're going to add this to the show notes, but where can they? Where can A we find your book B where can we, you know, like go ahead and say your website, how to find you? You know, if you're on social media, that sort of thing, kind of the rundown, so that people can find you and learn more about what you're doing.
Speaker 2Yeah, we are Empowered Equines, and we're Empowered Equines on every social media, so facebook, instagram, tiktok, we're all empowered equines and um, our website is empoweredequinescom and our book is equine empowerment and I think that's everything. Okay. Where do we find the book? Um, you can find the book on any large bookseller, so like amazon or bookscom, anything like that.
Speaker 1Writing a book is a huge endeavor. I mean, that's quite an accomplishment just right off the bat.
Speaker 2That is something, and so that it took me like five years, but I'm actually.
Speaker 1I am almost done and almost published a kid's book series, so it's for kids, but adults will appreciate it too, because it just simplifies it all there's so little out there for because I have grandchildren now that are going to be riding you know, my horses and hanging out with me a lot with the horses. That's my goal. I'm going to get a rider out of one of them, but anyway, they all love animals.
Speaker 1I try to explain what is this horse feeling, what is this ear saying, what you know, but to have a children's book that can explain it better, cause you know they're always going to learn better from someone besides their own relative. It's just the nature of it, you know a guide. A guide would be extremely helpful, something that they can read and understand on their own. I mean well done you.
Speaker 2So it's almost, it's almost ready, that's great, that's great, okay.
Speaker 1Well, I tell you, jessica, this has been really enlightening and motivating because we're building the indoor arena, we're in Wisconsin, so the same kind of winters, it's cold, windy, wet, muddy, everything. The culmination of a what 30, 40-year dream to build this arena.
Speaker 2I was going to say that's my dream too.
Speaker 1And then it has a photo studio attached, which means I can keep doing my work and training, training other animals. The cat is pulling on my head that's my dream too. And we have taken in young people in the past that actually came and lived with us and were like daughters to us. So we're we're not into that anymore, so much now that we're older. But I know the healing power of animals and so I may be bothering you in the future like, okay, how did you do that? How did you?
Speaker 1do that, I've got rescue horses here, that you know, and the sheep, which is a whole nother show, because how sheep can work as therapy animals is another thing.
Speaker 2Sheep are amazing.
Speaker 1Yeah, there's just so much to learn, but I feel like if we build it, they will come and um cause I.
Speaker 2I just have to open that door and I and I think I think we put a lot of focus on like is this horse going to be okay for kids? Honestly, every horse is okay for kids. You might have to use protected contact, you might have to really slow down the training with the kids, but kids will adapt to the horse in front of them. We have a completely blind horse who you couldn't touch at all.
Speaker 1No, there's no where it's coming from she was terrified of humans terrified.
Speaker 2And it was a 12-year-old who built the first relationship with her, because she was small, she was soft, she read her body language and she took the time to develop a relationship. So yeah, I think children are much more intuitive.
Speaker 1Children are much more intuitive with their animals and much more willing to talk to them. You know to like literally talk to them with a conversation to be accepting. You know they're not demanding that this horse be or perform, or you know much more open and honest in a way.
Speaker 2Yeah, she had no schedule in her mind, like for me. I'm like, okay, we have to get her wearing a halter, we have to get her doing this, and she's like, I just want to hang with her.
Speaker 1That's what she needs.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1Well, Jessica, thank you so much for taking the time to share what you've been doing and keep it up, I mean good on you, I'm thrilled, I'm thrilled for you. Thanks for taking the time.
Speaker 2Thank you so much.