Shaun
Host
00:00
This is Off To Off Topic, a show where two men with the attention spans of a squirrel try and fail to stay on topic with today's subject. Where will their oral meanderings take us? Well, stick around and listen, because today's Off To Off Topic topic is… Cowboy Bebop, or, more specifically, the 2021 Netflix live-action remake of Cowboy Bebop. We're going to go over what they did wrong, what they did right and what they could have done instead. In this segment, we're calling what, what, what, what, what, what? A refresher for those in the need. Cowboy Bebop is an anime from the late 1990s that follows as the exploits of a crew of bounty hunters in the year 2071, where interplanetary travel and massive populist space stations are the norm. The anime series is among the most beloved of anime series and is a personal favorite of me and Nate here. We even went to the Neptune Theater in Seattle to see the movie. Only theater and hundreds of miles to be shown in the Northwest. Remember that I do. 

Nate
Host
00:52
actually, it's a very enjoyable experience, yes, mostly enjoyable. 

Shaun
Host
00:56
Mostly yes, because we had the balcony almost all to ourselves until right before a show time, when a bunch of idiots came up behind us with Taco Bell being loud and farting For like no reason. 

Nate
Host
01:04
there was plenty of space everywhere and they sat down next to us. 

Shaun
Host
01:08
Outside of us there was like four other people in the entire theater, I think Maybe six other people, and they picked like two rows behind us, if even that. 

Nate
Host
01:17
I think you called it. I think they were hoping for like maybe to start something, I don't know, but it was just. It was really frustrating Like dude anywhere else. 

Shaun
Host
01:26
Just just calm down Right. Being as popular as the show was, netflix decided it was right for turning it into a cash cow and, in 2021, made us a live action cowboy bebop Cast play. These beloved characters were John Cho as common cool Spike Spiegel, mustafa Shakir as the wise and learned jet black, daniela Pineda as a scrappy and well endowed Faye Valentine and, some Corgi, azine Alright. So, nate, we talked about this and decided to come up in the episode over your feelings for this live action remake. 

Nate
Host
01:58
And you know, I saw what everyone else is saying and I saw the outrage and honestly there's been so much rain and outrage, you know, particularly for a lot of like nerd outrage or like there you put women in my Star Wars, and so that kind of you know kind of dampened me for the whole thing. When people get super outraged about it I'm like, oh, whatever, you know, just it's not that bad. Well, it was that bad, I hated it. 

Shaun
Host
02:24
You're here to say that all the stories are. This is a spoiler. 

Nate
Host
02:27
Spoiler of my bit. Yeah, I hate, I hated it. I hate it so much Now I really watched two. 

Shaun
Host
02:33
I think you saw the whole series, but I only I saw it for the last couple episodes I made to the Pierre LaFlufe episode and kind of tuned out a little bit after that. 

Nate
Host
02:41
Yeah, I, and that's kind of like to get the feel of the show. I watched the premiere episode, you know the first episode, and then I watched the Pierre episode because you know when people talk about cowboy bebop, you know there's a lot of episodes people talk about, like the mushroom episodes. You kind of want the stands out. And there's a couple other high action, especially the last one, you know, with a spike, but the was a pier or whatever. That's a standout episode. So along with those, so you can't talk about cowboy bebop, the series, without talking about that episode. You know there are some of us kind of gloss over, but not that one. Very good, and that was one of the ones they also did like. Ok, this episode is a standout. So we're going to do a live action version of that one. 

Shaun
Host
03:32
Yeah, and that's one of my first problems with they did, is they, instead of making their own stories, they decided to try to just copy, one for one, what was already there. 

Nate
Host
03:41
And no, they didn't. They say they did, but they didn't. It was a one to one. It's like, oh sure they had the episode, but by God just swinging up, effing miss dude, like they're saying, oh, we're going to do because so I can't know. I'm still my thoughts here, but it's just so much rushing. I mean once, ok, I'm a career to like it. 

04:02
This is why I took this is why I took notes. Yeah, I refuse to take notes. A Disney live action, yeah, this is the only thing that separates me and you. You're like I have notes. So I'm saying I'm like I don't care For the top of my head, the Disney live action movies. You know, yes, the movie. You know a movie is a movie unlike a series and so, but they still copy the same relative beats. You know they say, ok, this happened and this happened and this happened and this happened. And in the movies they might sprinkle in some extra flavor into it, but still, by and large, you know the reasons why the characters involved might alter a little bit, but still that happened and that happened and that happened and that happened. Whereas in a cowboy bebop episodes like they, just OK, sure, you know there is some semblance of what happened in the original episode, but they, it's so altered that it's barely recognizable. 

Shaun
Host
05:00
Yeah, Well, the general strokes are all pretty much the same. I mean, first episode dude is red eye and his wife are trying to escape, possibly pregnant. 

Nate
Host
05:10
Well, it's not wife, but girlfriend. So OK yeah, that's, that's the general gist, I guess. I guess I'm looking more, I guess more. 

Shaun
Host
05:17
I'm not looking for every line of dialogue to be. 

Nate
Host
05:19
Yeah, no, totally, I guess. 

Shaun
Host
05:21
I guess I should have used the term one for one. Well, no, hey we can do an all new story. We're going to just they decided, hey, you know what episode one of cowboy bebop. We're going to copy that as best we can and make it more accessible in our minds. And you didn't watch the other episodes, but a lot of the other episodes are pretty much just one for one copies. 

Nate
Host
05:38
OK, I mean again, I'm coming off of just those two episodes. I guess for me the pinnacle of one for one shot that comes to my mind is psycho. You know you have the original psycho way back today, black and white. 

05:51
Oh but I got to remember their name. But it's cocked in it, you know, screaming shower step they're. They did a remake, like in 2000,. Maybe or maybe it was the 90s, early 2000s, I have a feeling I worked a movie there at the time, so it might be in the 90s. Vins Vaughn was was the killer in this one and that was like they added a couple of things in there, like they added a scene where Vins Vaughn was looking through a peephole and jerking off. But they, they did they. They heavily implied what was doing. And other than that, like there was a lot of shot for shot, like the stabbings, they, it was literally cut for cut. If you watch them side by side they're almost identical but the movie by far is fairly close to shot by shot. I remember that a lot of they actually got a lot of criticism because they're going. You know where is the artistry in this? You know you're not, you're just. Basically it's like you took a test and you copied someone's answers. 

06:45
You're making a very bad facsimile, facsimile, yes it's like, outside of a couple of edits, you know, add the items in there. You know, again, you know, people seeing that that was completely necessary and I'm not prude, but that's that was necessary. Would it come here? Yes, you're right, it is not B for me, you know, but it still hits the kind of like the big points. Yeah, the overall story flow. Yeah, hmm, story flow. You got me there. That's that's where I step. I take a step back. Ok, I don't. Are we starting on the first episode, are we? 

Shaun
Host
07:18
going to be doing more yeah. 

Nate
Host
07:19
I don't know if you would do more groundwork before we start giving the nitty gritty. Oh no, I'll relate it all OK. So one thing about the first episode first of all. I had forgotten how much I love the series and I remember talking to you about like yeah, it's dated, it doesn't, it's doesn't kind of ring like it used to. 

Shaun
Host
07:35
Which is the animation feels dated. It's true. 

Nate
Host
07:37
It's true. I mean don't, don't back away from this. You're right, it does have a very, it's 90s and so it definitely has that 90s feel. The animation doesn't look quite, you know, kind of weak spec now, you know, but still very it holds up but it shows its age. You know. You see the gray hair and the wrinkles. Even with all that, when Spike first meets the, the female you know the quote unquote pregnant female. I'm blanking on her name. I should probably get Isabella. I want to say it's about my brother, I believe you're pregnant when they meet in the cartoon. 

08:11
You know the chemistry, even for these two cartoon people. The chemistry is there. It reads you know he meets her, they bump into each other. He steals some food from her she obviously is in the bad boys, clearly, and but she kind of like she finds that charming. You know he's charming to her. You know it's kind of incidental. Well, it seems incidental at the time. You know it gives her back. They laugh. They have a good kind of repertoire. 

08:38
You don't hear everything they say because he would pan over to the red eye guy, but you know there's still kind of understanding there. Ok, you know everything's fine. Do comes up, almost kills him. She commits this not to you, because even even though the interaction was fairly brief, there was again, there was chemistry there. You tell she liked him and he kind of had feelings not feelings like romantic, but he had emotions toward her Like OK, this is the woman who's out of her death. 

09:06
When you know fast forward, stuff happens, they get in the firefight, and so when you know later on Spikes trying to like save her, you feel that like oh yeah, he is it almost because this is the final episode. If you come into this not knowing anything about cowboy bebop, there's a decent chance, like at the end of this episode she joins the team. You know there, if you, without any knowledge of cowboy bebop, they so was, set you down, you're totally blank. You're watching, you're thinking, oh, is this the love interest for the series? That's how, that's the, what, the chemistry I read into it in the live action none of that total, just no chemistry whatsoever. The, the way they meet was almost it felt Forced and he asked her for a cigarette and steals her cigarette, then walks away and it's. 

Shaun
Host
09:58
Right, she's like, that's like. Yeah, it's bad for you by yeah. Yeah, I'm gonna call us this charming in that he came across as kind of a dude. 

Nate
Host
10:04
He's kind of a dick and you know, she's like seemed to be not into it. At least she was like, okay, I've put up with this guy. And then Jill the Valentine comes out. It's just not Jill Valentine. That's where I was evil. Um, ah, hey Valentine, hey Valentine, thank you. Time comes out unaware and I would. I saw her. I was actually shocked. I'm like what are you doing here? 

Shaun
Host
10:27
You know very odd having her show up in the first episode. But you know they wanted to get those titties in right off the bat would be my guess. 

Nate
Host
10:32
I I get. I mean, I Understand they need, you know they need her on the show. You know that's. She's part of the show and it's being a live action. They're dealing with people who don't know who she is. They don't know to expect her. That's fine. But it really took me out out of it to bring her on the show and you'll course the show. That live action is longer than anime. Fine, but they started it is taking a lot of stuff in there that wasn't necessary, yeah. 

Shaun
Host
10:58
I kind of like the opening scene where they're at the casino doing the hostage negotiation In the first, you know. 

Nate
Host
11:04
I'll even forgive that that was dumb. But. 

Shaun
Host
11:07
I'll forgive it. Why are bounty hunters doing that instead of you know the security of the Casino, right, I mean, right, I mean it. And who hired them did? Was there a hostage situation? They literally called up the cowboy bebop. Guys are like, hey, get out here, we got a job for you. 

Nate
Host
11:20
Well, they're going after him anyway, and you know it. Yeah, you're right, it doesn't it? 

Shaun
Host
11:25
there's yeah shouldn't the whole area been surrounded by the police or security, and not to mention the Ed? The Ed dude holding everybody hostage had one of the dumbest lines I've heard, where it looks the ready's making his big old speech and he's all we need to take all these corporate cockroaches and round them up and take them out to the woods and then burn the woods. It's like, why are we taking them out to the woods and burning them if we have them round up with the woods? Ever due to you. 

Nate
Host
11:50
Yeah, it's just the bad guys. Just right up the car. 

Shaun
Host
11:54
We just round up the cockroaches and squish them, why do we got take them out to the woods and burn down the woods with everything else? 

Nate
Host
11:59
And they established spike like, who is a murderer like that? He just loved to kill like he's like, can we please get out of here without you? You rack it up a huge body count or whatever. Am I wrong and remembering because again, I'm only? I only recently watched the two and like those two episodes animated Watch for this. Yeah, obviously I've seen all of them. That was a lot of us years ago. I don't remember spike being kill crazy. 

Shaun
Host
12:20
I don't remember that either. In fact, I was kind of remember him being the opposite. 

Nate
Host
12:23
Yeah, I mean he could, he could kill and he could kill and like move on. 

Shaun
Host
12:27
But I thought Because a part of me remembers him not using not wanting to use guns because he didn't like how lethal it were, but yeah, I mean, you heard the ever use guns. 

Nate
Host
12:36
That's why he would have again. Ridiculous that you take fist to a gunfight. But Well, he wasn't. He wasn't Lisa with Vashtymp, he was still kill. You know, if the situation called for it, he would shoot some in the face if he had to, but he definitely didn't revel in it and in it also cost him. 

12:54
I usually when he kills people, yeah, and this show and you just be like, you know, oh, stop killing people. Like you know, we only got one person to turn it into, got paid for, like what are you talking about? And then going, you know, even more in the anime, in the beginning of anime, you know, do comes out hey, we're having steak and you know mushrooms and spikes. Just over there there's beef and bell peppers. That's what beef, bell peppers. He's over there Exercising, is like okay, cool, and of course there's no beef. And then they kind of go into why isn't there a beef? Well, just kind of says maybe if you wouldn't cause all this damage, that we lose all this money, and so it was just kind of this brief interaction for the two. I didn't need it. You did not need to hear about dude's order, that wasn't necessary. You don't need that much backstory. In fact, if you, when I watched the first episode, almost no backstory was given at all about either character. 

Shaun
Host
13:47
Really, no, in fact you didn't get a lot back story until halfway through the series. 

Nate
Host
13:50
Sometimes, right, and you know the bend in series. They're still kind of like you don't know the ins and outs of all of them. Yeah, and another cut entry you think was the very, the very opening of the first episode. You see spike like about to die, you know. So they're kind of hinting. Hey, you know, ultimately this is the stores, stores gonna go. You know we're not there yet, but this is where it's gonna go and it just, oh my god, at the end of the episode, you know, of course, there's a big Valentine was there. They left her alone the ship for some dumbass reason, and oh yeah. 

Shaun
Host
14:25
And a fake Valentine in this anime series. You know it felt like she was always trying to screw them over she's, you know, it felt more like she's using spike and jet at times and this one just like she meets him and she's just you're like I want to be your best friends, let's hang out and do everything together. 

14:40
It just she felt wrong you know, they like walk her in the toilet and she's all just like happy about. She's like, hey, can we go now? Yeah. Yeah, her character felt off and again, I like the actress who played her, though I thought she did an overall good job with, yeah, but she was given Mmm. 

Nate
Host
14:58
Yes, I mean the actress. I'm sure it's fine. I guess it's not just her. I felt like all the characters were like wooden performances, yeah. 

Shaun
Host
15:05
Yeah, the dialogue wasn't exactly amazing in a lot of it and and the fight choreography was awful. 

Nate
Host
15:11
You know, I've seen worse. You know I probably say the Netflix Fist, iron fist, the Netflix iron fist, that body was. They hit a lot of that bullshit with like jump cuts. You know cuz. You know the story behind that is the guy who got hired. He was hired and had only six weeks of train and he had almost no experience in fighting and so he went in there with six weeks of train and Kind of did the best he could. But the best he could wasn't very good. I especially when you're comparing it with, like the Daredevil, where they had very long, intricate fight choreography Meanwhile you can jump over to this show and it just seemed like everyone was kind of waiting for their turn to get hit in the face. 

Shaun
Host
16:02
Yeah, and it's like one of those demonstrations of Steven Segaldo's where all the people just rush at him and then do a flip when he goes. 

Nate
Host
16:08
Yeah, and I mean there was. No, it wasn't fast, just some of the hand-to-hand fights, there was just grueling. Can we just jump to the end, please? And again, you jump into the anime cartoon and animes can do a lot more. I understand that. You know, with a lot less. You know the. The creators can make the anime get how they can make them fly. You know, but as is as reference to the, the next episode we're talking about. 

16:34
But yeah, there was no there, it was just very basic, you know. It seemed like a bunch of teenagers who made something in the backyard, but I would argue even teenagers shooting something in the backyard, that would be more like have more, more. I don't know the way. I'm looking for Heart. Yeah, heart, that's. That's a good one, a more heart, because they wouldn't understand any rules and they'd hurt each other accidentally, you know so hey, you better. 

Shaun
Host
17:01
Ooh, that hurt my ears. Dropped on his head right there. 

Nate
Host
17:04
Yeah, they will be dumb assholes about it, and this just seems like they are dumb assholes with a budget, so or not, even I'm sorry, not dumb ass, because then they would actually be more impressive. Yeah, they were just. I punched, now you punched. Now you can't okay this. 

Shaun
Host
17:20
Yeah, hit you with the energy blast. Yeah, oh yeah. What's seen about that? Real quick, I gotta get this out of my head. The beginning scene, where they're in the casino. How did that dude hear that entire gunfight while he was taking a dump and not? You know, come out and check up on things, because at the very end the dude walks out with a disruptor out of the bathroom. He's like what happened here? Yeah, completely oblivious. Yeah, I mean, is he just that loud of a pooper? 

Nate
Host
17:44
I mean is he the? 

Shaun
Host
17:45
loudest grunter in the bathroom you've ever heard. 

Nate
Host
17:48
And I mean again. The spike said it's like who who goes? Who takes a poop in the middle of a heist? Yeah, but seriously. 

Shaun
Host
17:55
Well, that I can kind of understand, because I mean, you know you have yourself some bad tofu somewhere along the way. I guess, I don't know, or but like, do it without going to leave the big gun with somebody who's not in the can or who take he, who takes her, you know giant disruptor in their bathroom with him, like in the stall and everything. 

Nate
Host
18:14
And again, like with the disruptor, that also falls in the leader, because you let someone who's stupid enough right and I don't fire that dude's like her, her, her, yeah. 

18:24
I mean, if I was that guy, I would have shot him. You know if I would, if I was the leader dude and I'm sitting there and my guy comes out rolling with a big giant disruptor right, and especially knowing what it does at the end, I would have shot him in the head before, yeah, there wouldn't have to be spike, yeah, you'd be like, okay, this, I would just lift my gun up, blast him and though, okay, the maniacs down. 

18:46
So, we go back to what we were doing. Yes, flashing, okay. Going, moving on from the casino, it's okay. 

Shaun
Host
18:52
Oh yeah, I sure I was gonna bring up the point. One thing that I didn't like about this is the main dude, the drug trafficker. They made him like really against using the red eye, which I don't know. I'm kind of changed the storyline in the output of this show for me because they went from being like drug users trying to get out to be in people I don't know. It made them more sympathetic. I feel less villainous. Was he against it? I guess I didn't pick up that. 

19:16
Oh, really, in the live action, oh yeah, like at the very beginning where he goes in the back of the bar and you know they do the whole exchange like well, let me see the red eye. And then he like looks at the red eye and he's like I don't really want to use in the wife's or the girlfriend's. He's like don't do it, don't do it. And he's like shaky, he's like I guess I'll do it, but whereas in the actual anime he's just like red eye. Yeah, I do it, I do it all the time, yeah right, it's like let me see how it works Okay cool Anime. 

19:42
he really didn't want to do it. He's just like, oh no, and then a stupid line like how does it feel? It feels like heaven. 

Nate
Host
19:51
And the dynamic between them two. Those two also like in the in the anime, it seems like they're a real couple. You know, she's, obviously she's in every head. She likes the guy, but she's you could tell she's she has this like the aura of like this is gone too far. Yeah, because you know she sees him taking the red eye, she sees all the death and she's kind of like I want to get the Mars. You know, can we please get out of here please? 

Shaun
Host
20:15
Oh yeah, and they also added in the thing about how her her dad was like some ruthless mob boss who was trying to get her back Something. Yeah, which which again just kind of made it seem like it's like oh, maybe we should be rooting for these bad drug dealer, drug smugglers. It felt like they really wanted us to root for them, even though in the anime they were kind of just bad guys. 

Nate
Host
20:34
Right, they were just two random people and again like that with the female. You know the two. It's like you almost saw her wanting to hook up with bite spuck of the ant because there was no real. You know, they were obliquely, outside of what you saw. And then they try to make her have a bounty too. They're trying to make her I don't know, I don't know if they're trying to make her more of a relevant character, but she was a pretty relevant character in the original one too, and it's fast forward to the episode. You know she does things and their escape in the anime was much more dramatic. You know, they get in the car, they try to escape. There's a they. At first she believes they can get out of there, but she looks in the distance as she sees the police or whatever is up there. She knows it's over and you know she takes about herself. She kills her boyfriend and that's taking ownership. She's like, okay, I am taking, I'm I'm sure. 

21:31
I'm gonna kill him so he doesn't kill anybody else. I'm checking control. This has gone too far. 

Shaun
Host
21:36
This needs to end this is how I'm getting out of this. 

Nate
Host
21:39
Yeah, she kills him and then she looks over, kind of says a goodbye to Spike, who's looking on in horror because you know he wants to try to save her, and they get wiped out just in. They both die in hail of bullets. In the show though he gets shot. So when they leave, first of all they don't show her getting into the car, they just kind of show him sliding in, so apparently through the middle of a huge firefight, when the matter of five seconds she drags his body all the way over to this to the spaceship. 

Shaun
Host
22:11
Oh yeah, and they steal the spaceship that the dudes were working on in the hangar. They pull up a dude. You're like the mechanics are standing like working on this ship and that's the one they steal. Yeah, you really want to break into a garage and be like, hey, they got that engine half apart, let's take that car. 

Nate
Host
22:24
Yeah, it just it makes no sense. On many things it doesn't make any sense. 

Shaun
Host
22:31
And then they've forced in that little shooting scene there too. So they could you know. Again, yeah, the story of Spike being part of the mafia. So you're like, oh, fearless is back. 

Nate
Host
22:41
Yeah, it was unnecessary, you know it was. It was necessary for the show, which I'll talk about it. I was like but they're, you know, we're in the ship trying to escape. He just dies. So they took that away from her and she's kind of looks over and Spike's looking all horrified or whatever and it's kind of like why, man, you've known her for three seconds. There's no chemistry between the two of you. 

Shaun
Host
23:06
That doesn't really seem to be any kind of connection outside of like she's a girl but In the live action I feel like he was freaking out over the fact that he learned that she wasn't actually pregnant, was just smuggling the red eye and her belly. I feel like in the anime he actually knew that. 

Nate
Host
23:24
I mean it's definitely. 

Shaun
Host
23:25
I got the impression in the anime he was like oh yeah, she's smuggling stuff, obviously, but in the live action it looked like he was like oh my God, she wasn't pregnant. I am now all upset and hurt over this revelation. I don't know, maybe I've read that scene wrong, but that's kind of how it felt and seems weird. 

Nate
Host
23:41
I mean it does. You know why the reactions and the reasons why they do things are just different. And you know again it's like, oh, what's the anime? But it just, it stole the heart from the show. 

Shaun
Host
23:59
A dagger through its heart. 

Nate
Host
24:01
And again, just at the very end, it was just, it was just dumb. And then they they brought in, so they entered the big bad of the series on the live action, which is face Vicious, Vicious, they bring in vicious. I don't know, maybe it was just me, but I'm kind of disappointed. He wasn't Asian. Yeah, I would assume he'd be Asian, like Spike. But whatever, I don't know if they ever even established out in the show because they're not like this guy's Asian. It was just, you know, he was an anime guy. 

Shaun
Host
24:30
Yeah. 

Nate
Host
24:30
I don't know, I didn't really think about it actually. No, I don't, I don't remember. In the series, you know, Vicious was obviously a part of it, but he wasn't like this Vicious showed up like every three or four episodes. 

Shaun
Host
24:43
And yeah, he was like the underlying story that you only just barely knew about, where it was like every third episode he's like, oh, what's Vicious up to? He's talking something about getting revenge and you didn't really learn about it until halfway through this year's and then again at the very end, but in this one because I guess people are impatient. They just want to front load all the story. 

Nate
Host
25:00
We got to get videos out there with all his story. 

Shaun
Host
25:02
We got to get Faye out there and get all her story out front. 

Nate
Host
25:06
Again. So you are also going with a scene where the series and I did. I'm just going off these two episodes but they loaded a vicious and he just out of the actor seem wrong it didn't? 

Shaun
Host
25:17
It felt like they're trying to remake Sephiroth. They even kind of gave him Sephiroth the music at one point, kind of, but I mean I just his look. 

Nate
Host
25:25
He looked like he belonged to CW. I'll be real. Ha ha, he kind of does. He looked like he belonged in the, like, the flash universe or green area or whatever you want to call it. 

Shaun
Host
25:37
Mom, we want Sephiroth. 

Nate
Host
25:38
We have Sephiroth at home, son, I mean seriously, he just it was not good and he's trying to act crazy. It just came across as strange. 

Shaun
Host
25:48
Yeah, he seemed like a businessman trying to act crazy or something. 

Nate
Host
25:52
Yeah, it, just it didn't, it didn't fit and so I don't know. I feel like I had more to say. Whatever, I was watching that, watching the episode, but man, just I hit the big parts. Just the chemistry between Spike and the woman was not there. You know, her big decision, her like character growth moment at the end was raw from her. 

Shaun
Host
26:15
Yeah, they made her. Yeah, they completely changed the entire flow of that episode at the end, where they didn't have her kill him. 

Nate
Host
26:21
And then you know the whole thing about her being a bounty as well and fake him out of nowhere. And even the fight with fate, like I said, cut into the fight choreography. The fight with her was really slow and just pointless, and they were fighting that one. 

Shaun
Host
26:37
She could have just ran off too, if I recall. Yeah, it was. 

Nate
Host
26:41
I just, I just hated it. I hated it so much. 

Shaun
Host
26:45
It pains you in the deepest parts of your soul. 

Nate
Host
26:48
Not as honestly though it like it hurt me, but not as much as the next episode we're talking about. That one actually like made me mad, pierre. 

Shaun
Host
26:57
Le Flouffe. We can get right into that, because I'm out of notes on my first episode. You go first. Oh, I was going to say. Well, first of all I noticed is was he hooked on red eye in the anime? I don't recall that being a thing. No, okay, cool, not a thing. 

Nate
Host
27:10
They just want to send me the red eye was from my memory. The red eye showed up in that first episode and that's it. 

Shaun
Host
27:18
Yep, that's right, and I believe in the whole live action they tried to kind of make red eye a thing throughout the entire series, a little bit like, ooh, we're going after another guy on red eye. I might be wrong on that, though, but yeah, they uh yep, the red eye part, and also they changed it from cats to dogs, I'm guessing that's so they could fit iron into the whole thing. 

Nate
Host
27:39
Okay, this is a memory. 

Shaun
Host
27:42
I'm a projector dog too. 

Nate
Host
27:46
Now look the reason why at least they got ahead. 

Shaun
Host
27:51
Faye pointed out the fact that look kind of stupid. She's like dude. Our dogs are projector. What yeah? 

Nate
Host
27:57
So I was thinking about this. I guess I was thinking about this all morning. The reason why the, that bad guy is scared of cats in the anime was because while he was being tortured, while they were working on him, he looked through the far window and he saw Dr Claw and his cat and his cat was like staring at him from on high, so like he couldn't see the boss, he couldn't see Dr Claw's face. 

Shaun
Host
28:26
Oh, I can see that cat focused on him. 

Nate
Host
28:29
He saw his cat staring at him and clearly that you know with his evil look. So if you had a line up of pictures it's an evil cat, you know you would point at that one. He had mismatched eyes, even that gleamed. 

Shaun
Host
28:43
Yeah, he even had to say glare, a look about him too. 

Nate
Host
28:45
Yes, so that would make sense. Why he's terrified, you know, dare I say, hates cats. You know, like that would. That makes sense because he attributes his torture with cats. Now in the live action the dogs were also experiments. So they weren't, they were. It was a different power dynamic. You know he was in there getting tortured but three. I mean they weren't using those dogs to torture them, they were. 

Shaun
Host
29:11
Yeah, the dogs are being tortured too. It looked like yeah they were part of. 

Nate
Host
29:14
They even showed slides of these dogs with all different stuff on their heads. 

Shaun
Host
29:19
Like uploading memories and downloading memories, and were they swapping his memories with dog memories? I don't know. 

Nate
Host
29:25
Yeah, they never really got it. 

Shaun
Host
29:26
They're just like. We did a lot of experiments on them. 

Nate
Host
29:29
I mean talk about like horrific things, though that would be like fucking um mangola or someone in that, like one of his experiments was mad at another inmate instead of the guy who's torturing him, right it's. It's stupid Like why are you tributing your torture with dog barking? The dog barks they were, they were prisoners too. 

Shaun
Host
29:52
You know what my time in Auschwitz taught me to hate the Jews, oh no. 

Nate
Host
29:56
I mean it is just, it's awful, the, the, the job is stupid Like that. That's which, again, I understand. Oh, because I, let's work him, you know, let's make I know more of a character, because let's be real. I didn't really do a lot in the anime. 

Shaun
Host
30:09
He was the hacked a computer once towards the end of the series. That was good. 

Nate
Host
30:12
Yeah, that's about it, and he did it with like nobody watching, or something he had like a VR headset on in the corner. It was like dude, dude, dude, dude, dude. 

Shaun
Host
30:19
Yeah. 

Nate
Host
30:19
At the end of the episode. You know, at least according to our the main characters, I didn't do anything. You know we, we as an audience, know he did. 

Shaun
Host
30:28
Maybe we had Ed knows what he did yeah, cause even then that, like at the end of the series, they're like dumb dog, never does anything, and they're just like huh, huh, huh. 

Nate
Host
30:35
And that was fine. The dog was actually cool with that, so, but in this it was just oh, we got to make it important somehow and apparently people are going to hack him yeah. 

Shaun
Host
30:45
No, just just for your. Pierre Le Flouffe, I guess, can hack into him, because the and also he just like immediately knew which Corgi that was and everything he's like I know how to dial into that that Corgi's phone number is 555. 

Nate
Host
30:58
Yeah, I mean, and then go into Pierre Le Flouffe. Okay, so in the anime they didn't really give any backstory outside of that crazy music. You know, they're actually kind of badass music and just flashes of his torture, you know, and all that stuff they didn't they didn't look like some of the early nineties music video sort of. Kind of yeah. 

Shaun
Host
31:18
And then, but in the live action. 

Nate
Host
31:20
It's like, okay, vicious Heard of a hitman, I guess, and in some like lab, and they kind of save him and they actually talk to him. And I mean, I know in the anime he could talk to, but it wasn't, he didn't. He wasn't a full realized character. Yeah, he was for what they needed him, you know, for the enemy he was. He was fleshed out as much as he needed to be. 

Shaun
Host
31:43
Yeah, and that's actually one of the big things that bug me about this episode, because I feel like having Spike just wander into Pierre doing an assassination or killing the people he was going after get, and then having Pierre chase after Spike for no real reason other than he just wandered in the wrong place in the wrong time, is far more terrifying than having him be like actually sent after Spike Right In the anime series. You're like, wow, this dude's really going after Spike. This guy's crazy. What's he doing? What's his motivation? And you don't really know. And in fact he's just a crazy batshit guy. 

Nate
Host
32:10
And this was like, oh well, he's going after Spike for more red eye, Well, and then at the very you know in the anime he's, they get a message and they don't go into how he knew to find Spike. It was just like, look, this guy's super dangerous, he's crazy, he's magical and he, he can find you, he'll, he'll keep him coming till you're dead. In fact, he can find you through email because he knows where you are. It doesn't matter that they did explore that, it doesn't matter. 

32:39
None of that matters, because, as far as we're concerned, all we needed was okay, this, this bad guy, is not going to least like alone. He's got to take care of this. He can't ignore it, and in a live action. First of all, they made him a hitman, dumb and they hooked on the red eye. Yeah, he's hooked on the red eye and Vicious is like ah, what you go get? 

Shaun
Host
33:03
Spike Speak always like, okay, yeah, no argument no, just like all right, sure you want all red eye. All right, cool, you think you'd have some more questions or anything, because you know he's actually kind of intelligent in this one. Well the lady who unlocked him too. I mean, if she knew he's so dangerous and she was probably going to die anyways. I mean, I mean she could just been a hero and gone down with a ship. 

Nate
Host
33:23
Well, and again like he's supposed to be aggressive. You know he regressed to this childlike. So at the end of the show and the live action, when he got hurt, he's like, oh well, it didn't make any sense, because early in the episode, early in the episode, he was fine, he was talking normally. Okay, he was, you know, excitable because he was crazy. But he's, he held a conversation with Vicious and he know what. He knew what he was doing. He get full thoughts and he was this assassin guy in they. They made him weaker. You know, in the anime they didn't explain why he can float. It was just assumed that he has psychic powers. Of course he can float you know why not. 

34:05
It's what psychic power people do. 

Shaun
Host
34:06
Yeah. 

Nate
Host
34:07
And then with the bullet stopped. It wasn't like a shield generator, like, oh, we know what this is, it's a shield generator. We know it's weakness. He it was assumed that it was part of a psychic stuff, like he was experienced, he had psychotabilities. They tested on, they kept on talking with his brain until finally he escaped himself. He would let go. He, you know, escaped himself and he was just out in the world doing crazy stuff like a kid. 

Shaun
Host
34:33
And then here's another thing in the live action. When he's on a spikes first shoots at him and his little like armor stops the bullets. He looks surprised for some reason the bullets like stopping from me. 

Nate
Host
34:45
He's just like oh, I don't know if you noticed that. I didn't notice that. 

Shaun
Host
34:49
I mean, yeah, he legitimately looks surprised like oh, I didn't know I could stop bullets like that with my armor. Oh, I mean why? And let's not forget that awesome spinning flip kick that he did on spike that they tried to recreate from the anime. Yeah, that was bad. 

Nate
Host
35:04
I mean there was from a shadow. I mean I understand, I mean I get why they did that, but that was stupid yeah it was bad. 

Shaun
Host
35:10
The shadows didn't even look good. They could have made it look a little better, I would think. 

Nate
Host
35:14
Yeah, I mean a lot of the show. They can make things look better. Yeah, this is true. But yeah, just what they do, they still, they still so much of it at the very end is like, oh, we're going to just like clown in this. 

Shaun
Host
35:28
For no real reason either, because they didn't establish the fact he has a child like mine and wants to dress like a clown, right? They? Didn't really bring a play went to the fucking carnival either, and I thought, like the carnival, the carnival carnival. 

Nate
Host
35:43
You know, they try to recreate it. They couldn't do it. All, I get it, but he wouldn't. They're going I'm going to throw knives at him to tell him. 

Shaun
Host
35:51
And he shows up with six knives, is all he shows the six knives. 

Nate
Host
35:54
And then they were all going to go down together and he sabotage the ship. So you can do it alone. You know it, just it. They had too much time. They had too much time to fill from a 25 minute thing they need. They felt the need to add more. 

Shaun
Host
36:10
And that's how we got the scene of vicious fighting people. Yeah, and let's not gloss over the facts. Vicious gets stabbed right in the back and keeps on fighting. I mean not like a little slash, but like a full on soap blade three inches into his spine. He just keeps on going. 

Nate
Host
36:26
And he killed again. I popped in. I didn't see anything before this, so I watched the pilot and then I watched this. So the whole like trial they were going through. I didn't understand what's happening. I don't know why he was on trial and who those people were, and that's also a thing like. 

Shaun
Host
36:43
I believe that was the syndicate you're seeing and syndicate is trying to take down vicious Because I don't really remember. But also it's kind of what this is, where they're almost trying to make vicious and just slightly a good guy as well, because he's taken down the syndicate to. 

Nate
Host
36:56
I didn't feel that I felt he was trying to take over the syndicate. It wasn't like him doing the right thing about wiping these people out. It was more just, he's killing him to kill him. 

Shaun
Host
37:06
Yeah, I think it was as the head of syndicate was his dad and his dad put out a hit on him, or something like that. Hence the reason they drug him in front of everybody and we're going to cut his head off ceremoniously. But we should have done is, we should have watched the rest of the episodes. 

Nate
Host
37:19
Yeah, I mean that's probably. I do realize, you know, if you love more context and I probably should have watched all the anime because it's I mean, it's been like 20 years more than last time I watched the anime, the whole series, so it was really nostalgic. I started watching the first steps. Oh right, I love this thing. In the end, like I said, I just I was so upset, you know, hey, do you want to watch more? Let me know if you watch the episodes I like. 

Shaun
Host
37:44
No, I can't do that. I hurt too much from this. 

Nate
Host
37:49
Yeah, I'm not going to do that. It's a couple of newer anime I want to watch instead. 

Shaun
Host
37:53
So you're like my list is. I've got more important stuff on my list than this. And I don't blame you, because I will say I know one person who did not remember the anime at all and he actually kind of like the series Did. He didn't have anything to base it off of. Yeah, he was like, I mean, he didn't love it or anything, he was like it's decent. And then he also went on to be like, hey, I don't remember anything about the anime. Oh, then I saw it 20 years ago once sort of. 

Nate
Host
38:18
Yeah, I mean, I did watch. I watched the first episode of anime and I watched the first episode of live action. Then I watched the Lefou episode, cartoon or anime, then I watched live action. So it was, I had a one to one like right there, and oh you're one. Some of the characters that kind of I loved in the anime that only briefly made an appearance in the live action. Where's those three guys, you know, the three old? Oh yep, they show up in every episode, I think. 

Shaun
Host
38:45
I think the action is crannin' them in every episode of live action. Yeah, I didn't see him in live action. I don't remember seeing them. Oh, you didn't see him live action oh they're in the first episode and they're in the Pierre LaFluffe episode. I must have missed them. Oh yeah, they're like they even have a whole scene where they talk to them and they're like oh yeah, he's in there. Yeah, right over there. Yeah, he's in there, all right. 

Nate
Host
39:03
Yep, they're in it. I'm talking about the. Yes, I know they were in the first episode. I do know that it just wasn't as great because, you know, in the anime they're like the first one he goes I helped build this town. They're like so did we? And they show up again like midway through this episode. They're like I credit all these crops with my best friends. I'm like, yeah, dumbass, we're those best friends. 

Shaun
Host
39:24
Yeah, they do some of that stuff in some of the episodes. But yeah, it's a little less charming. 

Nate
Host
39:30
Without worrying about things to say about that, I just I. But I got what I needed to say. Out was anime was significantly better than the live action. I understand the outrage people had from the live action. I get it. It makes sense to me. I just I can't. I don't know if I could watch the whole thing. I don't know if I can do that to myself, just so it went over wrong. 

Shaun
Host
39:53
Anything you can say that they did right. The casting yeah, that's what I would agree to. I remember people were really mad about John Cho being cast as spite because they felt he was too old or something. 

Nate
Host
40:05
I was actually, I was just, I'm glad you said that I was just gonna say he felt wrong. I was well. I know this is so stupid, but what I was envisioning is they really needed to get like an icon, you know, like a handsome. They needed they didn't want those like almost model, like people, because when I pictured you know, because he was just like this. 

Shaun
Host
40:30
You're open for, like a Ezra Miller or somebody playing the role. 

Nate
Host
40:34
Yeah, I was. Actually. I was envisioning someone Asian, but Example I don't know. Oh. 

Shaun
Host
40:41
I'm trying to think of like a model Asian guy who had been good at the role. I guess maybe you get one of the BTS dudes. 

Nate
Host
40:47
That, honestly, that's actually I filled that in Korean. So see, oh, you know it would be hilarious. It was a way wrong fit, but it would be hilarious Instead with his face. Oh no, I'm totally playing his name. He played he's not blockbuster show on Netflix James watching. He was the FBI agent from Marvel he's in. Do you know what I'm talking about? Oh yeah, he's comedy guy. 

Shaun
Host
41:14
Yes, something, lord. I can't think of his name off, tom. I did know you're talking about, though. 

Nate
Host
41:19
I mean he would have been the wrong choice, Totally wrong, Absolutely Like that. Total wrong choice. Sam's scrolling through. I mean I'm looking at a lot of these actors. The Andrew Koji looks pretty bad John show, but he was that. He couldn't play him because he was. He was like huh, oh no, I really wish I had. Oh you know what, the guy who played, he might have been fine. The guy who played, I meanative من. 

Shaun
Host
41:52
I'm not talking about no. 

Nate
Host
41:56
No, cheyche, the legend of Ten Rings. Marvel Haven't seen it. Well, I know you haven't seen it, but you know the actor? 

Shaun
Host
42:02
No, actually I don't, To be honest, hold on. 

Nate
Host
42:05
Let me Google him. Randall Park, by the way, is the guy I was trying to think of. He'd be wrong because he's a comedian guy. Uh, simulu, yeah, daniel Day Kim, I like he's nothing like Spike, wait. Well, I'm not trying to imagine the spike, I'm not trying to be the one to one with the anime. I'm just trying to like somewhat who I envision. 

Shaun
Host
42:27
Let's see, I don't remember myself who actually spikes looks like because see, kind of looks like John Cho, to be honest. That's why I say he kind of made it was a decent role for him. Wait, are we talking about Vicious or Spike Vicious? Oh, I thought we were talking about Spike. 

Nate
Host
42:41
No, yeah, I mentioned. I only mentioned Spike because, like I looked at what the actor's going to know, spike I mean. 

Shaun
Host
42:46
Oh well, I was talking about John Cho being like I was talking about Vicious. I don't know where that was. I was talking about. 

Nate
Host
42:55
Vicious. Okay, I mean, I've been talking about Vicious. How I didn't think you'd got you. 

Shaun
Host
42:58
I thought you were talking about John Cho didn't spike, because I was like hey, John Cho, people hated him as Spike, but I thought he's pretty good and you're no one. 

Nate
Host
43:04
did somebody hand more handsome I? I thought you talked about Vicious. I thought you know my bad. Okay, now I understand what we're, we're, we're, we're across the over. 

Shaun
Host
43:13
Yeah, no, no, vicious, I didn't like that actor they picked for him. 

Nate
Host
43:15
That could have been a lot of other guys. Okay, thank you, yes. 

Shaun
Host
43:18
At first of like. Again, I still think they were like I don't know. I guess my yes, because you know sword, swordfighter. 

Nate
Host
43:25
Sephiroth. Well, had they picked someone for Sephiroth, that would have been a good Vicious. This, honestly, the guy they picked for Spike was like. I liked him as an actor again, though I hated his action scenes this, yeah, you know when it came to and he could do better. I know he can. I've seen him in other things Hell, when he played a Sulu in Star Trek, like he had a couple of other things done, but not this. They were trying to make it more than it was and they fell on their face. 

Shaun
Host
43:57
Yeah, they did. They swung for the stars and missed completely and fell on their face. Yeah, now I'm looking at pictures of the actor or Vicious. He kind of looks like the actor, but I don't know. I just don't think I like how the actor acted. 

Nate
Host
44:09
The Vicious, I don't, or maybe it's more of the way they wrote it. Well, I just because Vicious, honestly it's kind of a generic looking, you know, let's, let's be real, I mean, he's, he's pretty generic looking, it's just a white dude with white hair. Well, I, I don't even read him as a white dude, honestly. Really, it looks white to me. I mean fine. 

Shaun
Host
44:27
You know, I'm not gonna say you're kidding. You know, I also always assumed Spike was white too. 

Nate
Host
44:33
So right, I mean I'm looking at side by side from you know they look out of it. It's really hard to race when you're looking, you know, on anime sometimes, unless they're black, and then there's that's kind of super racist. 

Shaun
Host
44:47
I mean, I think it's a great hair, I just think white dude or European. 

Nate
Host
44:51
I mean again, that's fine. Yeah, if we're gonna go white, great. I still didn't like this guy's features. Um, I didn't like it, didn't like it. And his acting the little bit of acting I saw in the episode was too over the top is too like wacko. Yeah, exactly, I wanted a little more subdued, crazy and this guy was like he's got a lot of fun. 

Shaun
Host
45:18
Yeah, what other evil things cannot mine to come up with? 

Nate
Host
45:22
Yes, ha, ha ha. 

Shaun
Host
45:23
Fucking watermelon or freeing prisoners. Yeah, ha, ha ha. 

Nate
Host
45:26
Burn down that orphanage. Why, uh, just cuz Burn the orphanage. Record the sound so I can make the screaming children part of my symphony. 

Shaun
Host
45:39
Yeah, I do agree with the. Casting was good. That's kind of one of the only strong. They did do a good job of popping in some of the classic songs and we also got the classic theme song too. 

Nate
Host
45:51
Yeah, I mean the theme song was, yes, the classic theme song. Love it. I don't know the music, I didn't really pay too much attention to it, but when it was all over I was still kind of my soul was hurt. 

Shaun
Host
46:06
Your soul had just been through third degree burns and you didn't know how to process it. 

Nate
Host
46:12
It's just again the whole. My biggest sticking point outside of all the other ones, was the vicious. I hated it. Like they introduced him at the end of the first episode, I was like no, please, no. And then, when I watched the second episode and he was all through it for some reason, I was like, oh God, here we go. 

Shaun
Host
46:33
Yeah, you're almost kind of surprised they didn't bring out Ed early on in the series too. 

Nate
Host
46:38
They actually saved it, for the very end they saved it for the last episode or the last two episodes. Oh, really, yeah, because I didn't see it. Well, I thought Ed and I were like they were quite inseparable. 

Shaun
Host
46:50
Well, I say I'm mad up in the series, I guess, but they appeared in different parts of the series in the anime too. 

Nate
Host
46:55
Okay again, you know, I fully admit it's been very a long time since I saw the series. I just remember the general beats. 

Shaun
Host
47:06
So we got the one thing down that they did, right the casting. Anything you think that they could have done to make it better overall, I would say write their own damn stories for one. 

Nate
Host
47:13
Yeah, yeah, right, we talked about before. 

Shaun
Host
47:16
I do the lost episodes where you know, hey, here's the missions you didn't get to see. 

Nate
Host
47:20
I mean what they should have done is just assumed you know. I know they need to bring a new audience in, but they just needed to assume you know who they were Because, let's be real, they were going to bring new people in. You know they were going to have new people, I get it. But the main people who were watching the show were people who watched the anime. That was going to be their primary audience and that audience was going to spread out and tell other people about it. So they could have done what the anime didn't, even where they introduced the characters. But they don't need some big old, long like backstory with. You know. They could just said okay, here we are. You know there are here's two badass bounty hunters going around doing things and the, even though they're very beginning, it didn't even be some kind of big heist with the action. It could have been a very simple kind of chastorship or something, yeah, or could it have been just been the three of them sitting around reminiscing about a few of their missions. 

Shaun
Host
48:20
For the first episode Kind of do is like a flashback kind of thing, and then after that be like, well, here we got everything established, now we can just go back to doing stories. 

Nate
Host
48:27
I mean, and then if you had to bring Faye the first one again, if you're bringing in, if you're bringing them in from like the anime or picking up kind of addition to again. This is why I'm not a showrunner, you know, I understand Faye. Faye is a critical part of the team. She just didn't show up until it was the second episode or third episode. 

Shaun
Host
48:48
Third episode, I believe. 

Nate
Host
48:50
Yeah, I mean she. She showed up later and then became a part of the series, but she wasn't there from the job. 

Shaun
Host
48:56
She even showed up for a few episodes and then took off afterwards too for a few episodes. 

Nate
Host
49:01
Right. So I mean, I don't know. I love Faye. She was awesome. I really enjoyed her character in the anime, but I just in this, I just didn't. I didn't feel it, yeah, nor did I. So I'm kind of bummed. I thought I had more to say about this, but I kind of ran a steam fairly quickly, yeah, and we kind of stayed on topic too. So we failed our, we failed our title. 

Shaun
Host
49:26
This is where the ending jingle goes. This is where the ending jingle goes. I don't know if we need one. I don't know if we'll get one, but if we do, then here is where it goes.