Vanlife Planning: Choosing the Perfect Rig with Anna La Mare

In the latest episode, join Chris in a conversation with musician Anna La Mare. They discuss Anna's transition into full-on van life, focusing on selecting the ideal rig to suit her evolving needs. Anna candidly shares her non-negotiables, financial considerations, and various factors influencing her upcoming decision. Chris imparts valuable tips on navigating the challenges of van life, offers advice on climate control, recommends high-quality electrical components, and more. Whether you're a dedicated van life enthusiast or contemplating the start of your tiny home journey, don't miss out on these insights and practical recommendations.

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Transcript

Anna La Mare Podcast

Intro: [00:00:00] Are you interested in showcasing your home? If you've gone tiny and would love to show off your van, bus, RV Yurt, boat, dome, or traditional Tiny Home, click the link below and apply to be featured on the Tiny Home Tours channel. 

Welcome back to the Tiny Home Tourist Podcast. The tiny house made me feel in my body this thing that I think I always understood, which is that there are no rules, like you're literally living in the moment. I know it's a cliches saying, but living this lifestyle consistently puts me in that mindset.

It's about keeping all of the things that matter to you and letting everything else go. I've been scared a lot of times. But I just, I jump anyways I guess. You have to jump. Join us each week as we share stories, wisdom, and practical tips from those who choose to have less and live more.

Chris: All right, everybody. Today we have a podcast with Anna. She [00:01:00] is interested in potentially doing the nomad life. So we're going to do a quick Q& A. So your current experience with living on the road, traveling around, do you have anything in terms of vehicle travel under your belt at the moment? 

Anna: Yes. I have been traveling around in a Honda element since December and have been on the road basically as a musician driving from Texas up to Vancouver, BC and back down again.

This, I'm on my second run right now and have been mostly either sleeping in the car slash camping or staying with friends and family, but I've a hundred percent been on the road since Since December. 

Chris: So right now it's a little bit of an upgrade. And actually I, myself own a Honda element, our head editor does he's contemplating an element build right now, but I'm assuming that you're wanting a little bit more space.

Is that the reason for trying to look at van life? 

Anna: Yeah, it's, there's a kind of [00:02:00] a mix of things. So the first thing is I don't quite have enough space. My dog is also about a hundred pounds. So the two of us together don't quite have enough space to, to sleep in. And even though I love my element very much, when I bought it last year, I was a bit in a rush and I wasn't paying attention and I got a little scammed on it, so it's not going to last me very much longer way less than I thought it would. So I which has been an unfortunate part of the year, but I kind of just need a little something bigger where I can, I can sleep. I can be, you know, I, when you're on the road all the time, when you're, you know, as a musician, you're just, you're carting things.

There's a lot of things, merch and PA systems and all that, and having space for that, and also having like a good kind of functional area to write in and to do work in and also to sleep and have like a proper bed in so that my neck doesn't hurt anymore and things like that. So, yeah.

Chris: So what are you leaning towards right now?

Like, do you have anything in mind? Is there anything calling to you [00:03:00] or you literally coming into this just open for many options? 

Anna: I, I guess I've been kind of more geared into the, you know, the, Sprinter style, not necessarily like Mercedes, but you know, something like the Dodge like two 2, 500s or some of the Fords that are kind of high, high sprinter van style so that I can stand inside of it.

And Yeah, I've had a couple of people ask me, you know, if I'd be consider a class C motor home, like a really small one, or even changing to a new car. And then getting some kind of hitch thing that I can put on the back of it. But as a, as a full time musician, I don't, I don't make a lot of money.

And so one thing I, I definitely don't think I could get a new car because I, I need to be able to get a mortgage on whatever I buy and so I do know that if you kind of have a van that's built out or small class C or something that you can get a mortgage to actually live in it if it has a bathroom and a kitchen and so that's kind of something I definitely [00:04:00] need just for the day to day cost of being able to to use it and then hopefully, and I'm not sure about this, but my, there's a possibility maybe that I can write some of it off if I'm traveling in it and it's my work van kind of thing.

So. I'm not, I'm not sure what the lines are that are yet. 

Chris: Gotcha. So in terms of where you're at right now, say you got an empty van, is it a scenario to where you could actually build it out or are you looking for something that's like, when you buy it, it's ready to go, or are you looking to build anything custom?

Anna: So in a perfect world, if I had time and it's a big, I don't have a home base right now, so I don't have like a garage. I don't own any tools, everything that what I do own is in a small storage unit. And so everything I've had for last year has been out of my car. And so building out a van, I think would take me more time right now.

And I'm having to get all the equipment to actually be able to do it versus getting something that might be built out and potentially under some [00:05:00] warranty because by February, I'm spending the winter in one place for a couple months. But then, by February, I have to be on the road again, and I need something functional and with my big fluffy dog, I need to make sure that nothing's going to go out. And my, you know, when the summer comes, my AC and that's going to work and I don't have to worry about her if I'm in a gig and things like that. So my, my first thought had been to build one out, but I've had a lot of conversations. Recently and, and a lot of people have kind of said, well, it's, it's a lot, it takes a lot longer than you'd expect.

And it's, even though it does save money you, the, the time to just wait on things and make sure you're getting the right materials and stuff, unless you have kind of a place to do that and the time to do it, it's. And, and if you're working full time at your job, like, you know, how long is it actually going to take you?

So yeah. 

Chris: Yeah, that's, that's what I was going to say. So typically when people are asking me about different builds and, you know, building custom versus buying something already done, I always tell people it's going to [00:06:00] take three times as long as you anticipate and cost at least twice. And my bus was that way about everybody on the team.

And you're absolutely right. Sourcing the right materials and say that you don't know how to wire up an electrical system, like with solar and hiring somebody and finding somebody competent, somebody that will show up is actually much, much harder. Then people realize until they're put in that position, you're like, well, I'm going to pay this person 3, 000 to do this.

That doesn't matter. Like they, they might not show up. They might wire it wrong, or they might be, an electrician that has only worked on residential. You know, like systems and then they try and go into a van and it's a completely different thing. Right. So it sounds like you're in kind of the spot right now of figuring out what the best option is for something that's a little bit more turnkey.

Am I correct in that? 

Anna: Yeah. Yeah. I, I guess from what I understand, I, I know that there are companies that build out the interior of [00:07:00] vans like Winnebago and Airstream and whatnot. And to be fair, most of the ones I've seen online, I've only done a couple searches so far. This is new information to me as of this week.

So but most of the ones I found to me look like kind of, I don't even like upgraded seventies, you know like motel. Hotel. I just don't like the feel of them and the build out of the style. And so I'm still, you know, the, the standard kind of like, look with the, the wood of the build out where it's a little bit more open and, and you have your like tiny little shower and a little kitchen and then the big kind of raised bed, as opposed to some couch that is a terrible material that like collapses into a bed, which I'm not going to sleep on every day of my life. So I need something that actually really works and the raised proper bed. Yeah.

Chris: What are some of the non negotiables for you? Because it sounds like you need AC for the pup. You need a solid bed.

What other criteria do you have? 

I

Anna: need a little bit of storage space underneath. I need it to be the bed and the back area to [00:08:00] be just high enough so I can store my PA and some guitar equipment. I don't have a ton of equipment, but enough that it's not in my way and it's kind of underneath. And I, I would really love to have solar.

I don't really know. I, or at least I, I think I really would like to, I still understanding the kind of the electrical system of having a van and, and what things that they're capable of with or without that. And again, it kind of just goes back to hot and cold things. So making sure that, you know, I, I've heard that a lot of AC units, for example, are really terrible and making sure that they're going to work or there's enough energy for them slash, like having a hot showers, a really nice thing. I like those. But you know, at the end of the day, like I can still go somewhere and take a, take one if I need to. It's really, it's really about the dog being comfortable and it's not being too hot or too cold when we're staying in there because we're in the South in the summer, sometimes like in Texas, or we might try to drive through the Colorado mountains to go hit some gigs or something.

So that's something that, I mean, I'd love to have something with as decent gas mileage as possible because I'm on the road a [00:09:00] lot. I'm not taking it to just go sit in a place. I'm taking it on the road and so and then that's definitely. And so the possibility of diesel is something I know this kind of comes up as a conversation piece.

So I'm curious about that. aNd then, yeah, probably just, you know, not be sold that I'm dealing with the same problems that I'm dealing with right now with my element. And which I know is the standard for getting an old car, but it just, when it's me. Kind of on the road by myself and also I have places to get to, it's really important that whatever I have is actually working functionally.

So, yeah. 

Chris: So last, last question to put this, this little puzzle together here. What is your total budget? 

Anna: God, that's a really good question. I don't, I don't know because it's, again, it's down to, you know, if I can get a home, like a 25 year home mortgage on something and I'm still able to pay less than rent. , and mind you, I've been really lucky. I usually manage to [00:10:00] score about 500 or less for run wherever I live. So that's kind of my, my line, especially cause I'm only making money when I, when I'm at gigs. I don't have any secondary incomes and I'm still getting started in the music industry, but my.

My goal is to hopefully be making, you know, 30 to 45 by the end of next year and then continually slowly start to increase that, which is doable. But I can't have anything that's going to be too, too insane. So if I can get something that's lightly used, hopefully under warranty. So somebody else took some of the depreciation hit and then that I can get on this kind of extended as a, of a mortgage as possible so that it's kind of hopefully under 500 a month, that would be great, but I don't know what that really equates to. 

Chris: Okay. So what, what you're going to find in this lifestyle is there's pros and cons to everything and there's give and take. So, and again, this is my [00:11:00] personal experience. I've been doing this for like. 13, 14 years. And so this is just my experience from building multiple rigs.

I'm in a mini bus right now. I have a 40 foot bus. That's my main rig. So I've, I've learned some of this the hard way and some of it's worked out. So grain of salt here. So number one AC in a rig is actually from my personal opinion, difficult to pull off. If you're doing it yourself, I say that because the only real, like you said, you've heard the AC units can be on the fritz and they don't really cool too well. 

The only real units that I see work really well in rigs consistently are mini split units. And those mini split units, they can be efficient, but say in this mini bus, trying to put a mini split on here, it takes some custom work. You need a fabricator. You'd have to find like, it'd have to be built specifically to have the head unit in.

It'd take a lot of work to get it pulled off correctly. And if you're not wanting to build custom, [00:12:00] you'd have to buy one already like that. So with that point right there, and there are 12 volt units, there's different options. They're getting more and more efficient, but I do know one person that has a 12 volt unit.

They do like it, but the unit itself was 1, 600 and they installed it themselves and it was on a vintage RV. So, but it's still one of those things like when you talk about Texas and the reason why I'm saying this is Texas in the summer I don't know how efficient that 12 volt unit is going to work versus a mini split.

And that's the kind of pros and cons with, with that. I think, realistically, if you need the AC, because the camper van, If it's well insulated and it has a decent AC unit, you'd be okay. A custom school bus conversion, so you can see behind me, I'm in a school bus. Like, a lot of the simple conversions, like the one I'm in right now, has the school bus windows.

They're single pane. They're drafty. [00:13:00] Like, school buses are a little bit out of the option unless you get something custom. And, you know, for example, with my 40 foot bus, it's a raised roof school bus. I have an inch and a half of foam insulation. Spray foam, close. So insulation with three quarter plywood on top of that, and that creates a nice little barrier.

Like I can, I can retain some heat and cold with that. This bus, I'm not retaining anything. The only, like when it's cold out and the diesel heater isn't working, the only way to get this thing warm is to turn the engine on and it has to run for like 25 minutes for it to warm up. Right? So, school buses are a little bit out.

And, the tricky part, I guess it's not tricky. It seems as though a RV is kind of more of where my thoughts are going. Because, like you said, having a payment plan. And a warranty. I don't know very many warranty companies that would warranty my school bus conversion. I don't know how it works with fans.

[00:14:00] Cause I don't know anybody that has done a DIY van and then got a warranty on it. If you are looking for a little bit of that protection with, with the warranty RV seems the way to go, but I will warn you about those extended warranty companies. I haven't heard, I don't think I've met one person that actually enjoyed their warranty or how much they pay.

First, how much they put into the warranty, it doesn't equal out. And the thing is with the warranty companies, they will look for any reason to deny your claim. So let's, let's just say that you and this, this is an example that I heard that happened to somebody that was actually traveling up in Alaska.

They had an extended warranty, but because like. They traveled through Canada, their warranty wouldn't cover the repairs. So they will look at your claim and try and find every single thing that, that is in their bylaws that they've just put in there as like disclaimers. So they could then reject your claim later.

Like that entire [00:15:00] industry is kind of known for that. It's almost better just to have like a, a backup fund with the warranties, unfortunately. 

Anna: Mm hmm. Now is that, is that for the, the items within the, the van itself or like the actual, just a standard and just, because I know that there's Warranties that go in the car itself.

And then there's warranties for the build outs that some things do with that. And you're talking about just the build outs or the van itself. 

Chris: Right. So typically with an extended warranty, like say you go to an RV dealership and you buy a warranty from the dealership. Number one, they will push that warranty on you very hard because they get commissions on that warranty.

If you ask anybody that didn't buy directly from the factory, they always get warranties pushed on them. And a lot of people don't don't do it. But that extended warranty is supposed to cover. The drivetrain. And the components inside. And the thing is like there, there could be good warranty companies out there, but the one, cause I had a class a for about four years, the warranty, they tried to push on me.

I did [00:16:00] reviews on it. Mike, they were really pushing me at the dealership. I went home and Googled the warranty company and it was like 1. 2 star. Like review on this warranty company because they were, they were playing that game. There might be better warranties out there. Like there's good Sam. They, they might be better.

i've heard good things about them. I guess if you are set on getting a warranty Make sure you do your research on the warranty company because the majority of them have absolutely horrendous reviews if you don't have a spot to Build out a rig and make it custom. Like I said with these school buses to have ac take some work.

If you want a three season vehicle, it's going to take some work to put all that together. Right. Camper vans you could buy a van, but somebody on the team has like. As you're talking about what, what your desires are and what you need they do have a 12 volt AC unit. It's a beautiful build. I don't know if that really matters to you.

It's more of like traveling around, but it's a very beautiful build, [00:17:00] plenty of room in the back. Like you're saying with your music equipment, like it'd be perfect from, from the sound of what, what you're telling me, they have that listed for 120, 000. No, no, no, that was a rig. They're selling theirs for, I think they listed it for 92, 000.

That's 

Anna: kind of from every, all the bands I've seen that look like they're in the area where they're kind of lightly used, but they look really nice and they have kind of the setup has seemed to have all been between 90 and a hundred. That's kind of what I was seeing. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know how that translates to a per month if you get a mortgage on that.

And that's why I was like, maybe 500, but yeah. 

Chris: So what I can tell you with the RV side of things, I did a 15 year. You know, payment plan on my RV that I got, and it was 55,000, the monthly payment was $439 Okay. For, for that rv. And [00:18:00] here's, here's another thing like. To get a loan, like if you are saying, I want to get a camper van that was built by Jerry over in Colorado and you go to a bank and try and get a loan on that versus this RV dealership that has all their paperwork and everything set up, actually getting a loan or a payment plan is going to be much easier for, for the RV.

The, and here's, here's where the give and take comes from. So there's a reason why I stopped living in my RV and built a school bus. I built a school bus because I wanted solid wood. I wanted things to feel solid as I went down the road. The RV I had, I took to Alaska three times and going through the Alcan highway, there were times where I thought the RV was going to fall apart.

Like, and that's not like an exaggeration. Like it really felt like the, the ceiling was going to come down on some of those washboards. Right. So RVs. As kind of a general rule, unless you're getting into like the [00:19:00] hundred and 150, 000 and up rigs. A lot. And this was back in 2015, 2016. So again, grain of salt, this is just my experience with it.

The build quality might've changed, but a lot of it is particle board staples and glue. And once you start living in it. You really start to notice that and the build quality. 

 What were you driving to Alaska? 

It was a 2008 Monaco Monarch, and it had a full slide. Like, the thing is, it was awesome when it like.

I'm kind of a little bit going down on RVs right now, but the thing is I never had any major mechanical issues. The slide worked all the time. It just , like you'd be driving this thing. And as you're going down, like literally the roof would sway, like you could feel the actual box. Like it made me feel like I was just on a platform with a steering wheel. With just some, some particle board around me, like that, [00:20:00] that's how it felt. 

Anna: Just to make sure I'm on the same page as you, when you're saying RV, are you, you pertaining to like class C or is that class C and B? Or is it, is that just everything, the whole? 

Chris: Yeah, so when, when I say RV, it's like a class A, class C.

So this is a class C right here. Class A is what I have, the big rectangular dude. So yeah, good, good point there. Class, class C, class A. So mine was a class A, big rectangle guy with all the slides and fancy paint on the outside and all that good stuff. But in terms of everything that you're telling me, Something like this seems like the, the best option, especially if you're going up through mountains, like the, the Ford seven, three is a fantastic engine.

 And of course you're going to have issues with it and maintenance and all that from time to time a lot of these diesel engines. Especially the seven, three, if you take care of it, it's going to take care of you, but like with, with something that's set up and [00:21:00] ready to go it seems like a camper van and school bus.

If the, you know, let's, let's just say you did go to a bank and you procured, procured a loan for 95, 000 for a van that's set up and ready to go. If we just do the simple math of my 55, 000 RV. To, you know, a camper van, then your payment's going to be a thousand a month where you could possibly snag something like this.

Like we did a tour that went live So she has 19, 000 invested in this RV and renovation and everything. And it has, you know, your kitchen, fridge, bedroom, little office area. And she has, I believe, yeah, she has the AC unit up there. Again, this thing might struggle a little bit in summer in Texas. You know, but in terms of something that's comfortable, livable, that she was able to get on [00:22:00] a decent budget and ready to go, it seems like that's, you know, kind of. Everything you're telling me something to look at. Yeah, 

Anna: I, I like kind of efficient and as small as I can get it while still.

I mean, that's kind of why I've been looking at the class B vans because they, but the thing I don't understand is if I look online for, let's say, you know, one of the, the, the dodge sprinter ones, whatever they're going to be. I don't understand why the difference in cost is so high for the van versus like the E three fifties .

And why is it that the vans are so much more expensive as a whole? Is it just because there are so much in demand or is there something about the way that they're built because they're metal or is it, it's, what is the deal with that? 

Chris: Yeah. So if you remember kind of what I was saying about RVs before, like just the build quality is not that great, I think.

I think there's multiple reasons, but one that just conversating with people, like for example, the couple that's on the team that have the vintage RV that have [00:23:00] the 12 volt AC that I was telling you about, they're wanting to build a school bus conversion because they want something more solid. They want something that will have more room to go back to your, your question with the vans.

It's. I think it really comes down to dependency. I think it comes down to, for example, my partner had an issue with her van and she could take it to a Dodge dealership and they were, they know the pro master, they can plug right into it. They know every, every weird thing that happens with that year. If you roll up in a Monarch or you roll up in that RV that I just screen shared to you.

Yeah. One. . A lot of shops won't take it. Yeah. They'll be like, well, we're actually booked out for a month where they could really get you in in three days 'cause they just don't wanna deal with it. Mm-Hmm. where if you have a 2016 pro Master Dodge will take you in in four days. I mean, there, there's been times we've been on the road and her van starts to mess up and we're in, in two days.

Yeah, right. When you're in an rv, it's not like that. And [00:24:00] yeah, like the, the overall build quality, I mean. Until you've lived in an RV and really felt it, and this isn't for everybody, you know, some people might have super solid RVs. I don't want to completely dog on RVs. But if I think of that Monarch versus my school bus conversion, there is no comparison like that, that the old, you know, saying that gets worn out night and day difference.

Like to the truest sense, it was a night and day difference, right? Just, just build quality, how it feels going down the road, how solid it was. Yeah, completely different. And you get the same thing with, with the van. So I'm in the mini schoolie right now has a Chevy 350 super solid runs. Great. I don't have any issues with it.

It's a dually, but driving 65 miles down the road and her ProMaster versus this bus. It's a completely different experience. Like this, this is a rickety truck compared to her van. It [00:25:00] feels like you're just in a sedan, you know? So there's, there's a lot of pros to the vans and you kind of hinted to it.

Supply and demand. I mean, after the pandemic and why these rigs are so much, so much more expensive when you have Starlink and you're able to hop on your laptop and work. There's a bigger market for people wanting to do this. So I, I think, I think a lot of it boils down to, you know, some of those examples I just mentioned.

But, you know, say you buy, say you do procure a loan for 90, 000 for a van, you're able to figure out the payments to 600, 700 a month. And it's a solid van and it's already built. I mean, you're pretty solid, but again, you, you might, you might run into the AC issue, excuse me, the AC issue with, with that, because I think if, if we could wave a magic wand and go five years into the future and these 12 volt [00:26:00] ACs have had a couple iterations and you know, the system gets better, you might be in a better spot, but I think the AC keeping it cool might be something that.

You'd still run into unless somebody did an extended van and they have a really robust and efficient AC unit, because it's, it's not like, say you started your AC unit in the morning. Like, let's, let's just imagine you're in Austin, Texas, middle of July. You're able to start your AC unit in the morning, keep it cool throughout the day, the pups good.

And then you hop in and it's a nice 70 degrees in there. You either need to be hooked up to shore power. So you'd have to get an RV spot or friend's house or something to where you're able to plug that thing into, or you're going to have to have a pretty robust solar setup with some, some pretty robust electronics, like batteries and inverters, and that's going to bump your [00:27:00] price up. And that's where we start getting into, from my experience, a personal opinion, you start getting into the one twenties, one thirties for rigs that are able to withstand that.

Anna: , It seems so strange that like, I mean, considering how many, how many people in the world have to live in such insane heat and how many people have like, I mean, just themselves and pets that it's so hard to just keep. Keep something at a livable, you know, a safe temperature, you know, it's kind of, 

Chris: well, I mean, it's, it's one of those things to people outside the lifestyle I'm sure, you know, this in your element, every drop of water counts, like it sounds like you don't have, you know, a solar kit on your element, but every watt counts, every light counts, like when, when you're in a house and, you know, I slide into it and I'm back home visiting Like you stop thinking about flushing a toilet, like that gallon of water is just gone, right? To where my lifestyle now, a gallon of [00:28:00] water is a big deal. It's a very big deal, you know? So to, to your point. When, when you get into it and you have to worry about that, especially if you have a pup, cause all it takes is one time of something failing and that could be pretty devastating.

Yeah. It is hard to do, but once you really get a, get into the lifestyle and realize how much it takes to maintain just what a normal house does without even thinking about it. It's it's, it's just part of it. Yeah. 

Anna: I, yeah, I think for me, I just like, I just don't want to get him to a spot where, you know, I, I, it's, I'm pretty committed to doing this.

But I want to make sure, you know, of course that like, she's safe and I'm safe too, you know but mostly her, cause I can go take care of myself, you know, but I, like, I worry about going in for a gig and, you know, which can be like three hours long and then coming out and the AC it wasn't working or something.

 That's like the, the fear, like the only thing about the whole process [00:29:00] that scares me is like that. The rest of it. I'm like, I can handle it, but just got to make sure she's safe. 

Chris: Yeah. Yeah. So there's, there's actually technology that can help with that. Yeah, so check this out.

Anna: Like blue chute thermostats or something, kind of? 

Chris: Yeah, so there's different things like this to where you can get alerts. Like you can set certain temperatures on your phone. Yeah. And, you know, if it gets above 80 degrees, you'll get an alert to your phone. If it goes down a certain amount, and say you go in and you're doing a gig.

And, you know, the temperature gets too hot. Obviously, it's more important to go out and check your pup. And then also there is I use this personally. It's a thirty four dollar little camera. And then you can switch it to motion activated. Or if you're ever worried about your pup, you can just. Go on the Blink app, make sure everything's good and then go back [00:30:00] to, to what you're doing because I'm the same way with my pup.

I mean, I think, I think what we're finding here is , like I said before, there's really no easy answer. Like there's, there's going to be give and take. I mean, unlimited budgets are your best friend in these situations, but yeah, 99 percent of people don't have an unlimited budget. 

Anna: That's me, which is fine.

I mean, I, yeah, I think, cause I would take, you know, a less nice looking thing to make sure it's safe. Of course, like anytime. And so I can understand the give and take, I mean, I obviously like I need to, there's some things that I have to have, but they're really not that crazy and, you know, I, and I guess the part I'm trying to understand still is like,

so I understood what you were saying about extended warranties. Obviously there are some, there are some things that are still under the warranty that, [00:31:00] that came out, that they came out of whatever dealership with. And some are still under like under the three years or whatever, and they have those.

And then I know that sometimes the, the items underneath have been put in and they go under warranty for us as far as I understand, but you don't necessarily have to purchase an extended one for that, which I'm. I've never purchased an extended warranty on my cars either for that same reason you were talking about earlier.

But , the part that I'm still trying to figure out is like, you know, if I go to a dealership and I'm looking at these kind of semi new ones versus something you can build out. Or something that's been built out personally that might have, like, better, like, an AC unit that was put in properly because they also had animals or something like that, and where, like, how big of a difference you're looking at in terms of, you know, price point and, you know, or, like, all of that, like, it's kind of very, it's hard to kind of, like, gauge at all, I guess, because there's so much.

Chris: Yeah. Yeah. And then unfortunately you're going [00:32:00] into a market with a very high demand. I mean, that's, that's really what it's boiling down to. Like pre pandemic we'd be having a completely different conversation because of an expensive van. I remember like somebody listed something for 75, 000 that had to be very fancy to where now it's, it's kind of bumped up and yeah, with, with the warranties, like I was talking more specifically about RVs.

You know where, yeah, like if you go to an RV dealership, they're going to have placards and posters and all the fanfare telling you how good extended warranties are. Cause they make a lot of money off of it. Right. Where if you went to a dealership that happened to get a trade in camper I don't think there is keen to do the extended warranty, but the vehicle itself, like say like your Chevy warranty or your Dodge warranty or whatever, depending on the mileage and the year, it could still have that attached to it.

Absolutely. 

Anna: Is there a standard for how many miles those usually go until? Is it like 30? [00:33:00] 

Chris: It depends. I believe my partner's van had a 75, 000. Yeah. That, that, that van's been used for travel for, for sure. But I mean, she, she has a pro master. One, one thing with pro masters and again, I'm not really a van life guy, but what she has shared with me, the, like around the 2016 pro masters, they're starting to have a lot of issues now that they're getting miles on them.

You know. So, one, one thing to, to consider. The, 

Anna: specifically the 16s or just like the, kind of, the ones that are from around that era? 

Chris: From, from around that era. Okay,

okay. 

Anna: That's good to know.[00:34:00] 

Chris: But, they're one of the most popular vans. 

Anna: They are, there's a lot out there, for sure. Have they made any func do you know if they've made any, like, big functional differences between, like, that, that and today? Or like, you know, the 21s, 22s, stuff like that? 

Chris: No, no, not, not that I know of. Again, my, my realm is and been mostly focused on school buses of like 2003 or four or older, because that's when they introduced diesel emissions flood.

So like after, after that, that's really nothing that we're interested in converting or dealing with because they had some. Some issues when that was first introduced with the exhaust and the systems with that it was kind of forced on them. Yeah, got it. 

Anna: With the, with your, with the school buses and whatnot, do you, I mean, do you know people that actually like have built out [00:35:00] school buses that they're actually taking on the road?

Or are they more as a sedentary kind of, I just assume because of the size and the mileage for MPG that they'd probably not, but I don't know.

Chris: No, so I bought my school bus with 120, 000 miles on it and it has 160 and I swapped into this mini because my partner likes to do more forest roads and all that.

So I wasn't taking a 40 foot school bus that weighs 35, 000 pounds down a forest road. So I swapped this out. But no, when, when I was on the road. I, I drove my bus a lot, but I was typically out west on public land. So I'd be up in Montana Wyoming during the summers winters down in Arizona, New Mexico, Texas.

There's just so much public land, flat public land, where I was able to bounce around. People with mini schoolies they, they absolutely drive them around everywhere. I mean, they're, they're awesome little rigs, but like I said, I have to be very careful with the weather with this. I can't, getting [00:36:00] super hot.

I had to drain my entire water system before I got here in Colorado. It's getting down to like 20, 25 degrees and it went busted pipes. Like there's really no way to insulate. I mean, you can insulate them, but it's not ideal. Trying to insulate a stock school bus with the windows. Right. Right. 

Anna: Yeah. I hadn't used the, the little, the passenger vans that, you know, the kind of Ford passenger vans and stuff that usually hold like maybe 20 people or something.

I was looking at those for a little bit. Just cause they seem to have to have a little bit more space, but again, there's so many windows and stuff. Yeah. They probably don't insulate at all.

Chris: Yeah. The like, like I mentioned in the beginning, the need for AC limits like that, that puts you in a very.

Anna: That's so strange, but I mean, it makes sense, but yeah, I, I didn't expect that to be the thing that would make, make my, [00:37:00] my my hunt a niche hunt, but it's good to know. I didn't realize it was such a big deal. Okay. And you said that, what were the things you said? You said many split. A mini split was the name of, 

okay.

Chris: Yeah. So you, you would need to install the actual mini split condenser unit outside of the rig. Oh, I see. And then the head unit goes inside. So you run the lines inside and that's what provides the, cause it provides heat and cooling, but you have to have a spot for the actual condenser unit and.

Like, I don't think I've ever seen an actual mini split on a camper van, but it could be done and that's where the custom fabrication comes in to where having a random fabricator do that. You're looking at 2, 000, I think on the, on the low end and then have an HVAC person come in. And install the rest, and they're not cheap either.[00:38:00] 

But, again, there's the 12 volt units, there's the RV units. And it really just boils down, say if you're in Austin, if you have a place to plug in, and you're not relying on solar, Yeah. That's, that's where things change. But you basically, like, RV, just like with the pandemic changed this too, RV parks used to be 20 to 30, 35 bucks.

For a decent one. That same RV park is now 45 to 60 a night.

Meh. I know. It's, it's tricky. It's, it's very tricky. And I want to be a downer because I absolutely love this It's better to know. Yeah. Yeah. I, I love this lifestyle. I hope everybody does it. I really, really do. But I think just understanding, like if, if you need AC, you're going to have to jump through some hoops.

Anna: Yeah, , my intention hopefully is to make sure I'm booking myself so that I'm spending my winters in the South and my summers kind of further up North. In Austin, I think[00:39:00] this summer it was like something, I think it was like two weeks straight of like over 110 degrees.

It's nuts. Like, I mean, that's hard to do in just a regular house, let alone like in a van, you know. And nobody, wants to be in that. And so, you know, my hope is that I'm kind of not going to be in the South South, unless it's like very minimally or it's in the winter or like at least spring, fall, so that I'm not, I'm not having to like, worry, worry about it, but I mean, there's always hot days wherever you are, and so it's like, I'm hoping not to put myself in a position where whatever aid that I have is actually actively struggling to like do it, but I, I just want to make sure I have something that if I really do need it is going to be there and so I don't know if like something like a, you know, 1700 plus, But 2k plus HVAC portion is going to be the only option for that, you know, even or if Or if I just have something that's like a little bit, you know, that's Gonna work in like kind of this random [00:40:00] situations.

I'd hopefully like not get into very often Yeah It's hard. 

Chris: There is an easy button The easy button here is, like you said, if you're down in Austin, you're just there for the winter. And also another thing that we'll do with my partner's van, if we do happen to be in a spot to where it's super hot, it's not the best for the van, but if the van itself has a working AC, you can, like, say you have a three hour gig, And you have a safe spot to park the rig.

You can just lock the van up and then have the AC running. And then when you're out of the gig, then you come back out. Then you go to the RV park or somewhere that has power to run, run your AC. So like she has a secondary locks on her van. She has the door locks and she also installed locks that go up on the frame of the door that you can lock from the outside that are like sliding locks.

So it's [00:41:00] double lock so she can leave her vehicle running and you don't have to necessarily worry about, you know, somebody breaking in, especially if there's a hundred pound dog in there, right? So there, there are ways to cheat the system, but really just traveling with the weather. is going to be your best friend.

The reason why I'm able to live in this bus is because we can travel with the weather. If it gets too hot, we can just leave. But both my partner and I, we both work online. We don't have to be in a physical location like you do for gigs, you know? So this is the conversation I had to have with, with My bus, when I was first like sending pictures to friends that did bus conversions, be like, Hey, should I get this bus?

Okay. So if I do this, and then it is a lot of reality that hits you all at once. And this is just my two cents. So take it with a grain of salt, but it is a lot of reality. It hits you all at once, but as long as you keep going, you'll figure it out. Yeah. I mean, this, this is from my [00:42:00] experience, this is where people quit.

But in my mind, I was like, there's no way I'm not doing this. It's like, So these, these are the set perimeters and I'm dealing with cool. Awesome. Let's let's get going. And that bus build is one of the best things I ever did in my life. Like I love that bus so much. Right. It just really boils down to how bad do you want it?

And there's going to be issues. There's going to be things that pop up that don't go your way. But the thing is you could buy a van, you could find one at a lot. You could find one on Facebook marketplace that just speaks to you and it's perfect. And it has everything you need. And you're off sailing, but just know, even with that, like there's going to be trade offs.

It could be that it doesn't have a shower in that rig. It could be that doesn't have the right storage and you got to figure out a cargo trailer on the back. You know, there's always going to be trade offs, but. It's just, it's just having the mindset and it sounds like you have that, that mindset. Yeah.

It's just, just following through. 

Anna: It's been helpful to already have been basically on the road all year. And to I mean, I've always been a traveler, so, you know, and, [00:43:00] and, you know, I grew up kind of camping and then VW Vanagans and stuff and all that. So like, it's kind of been, part of it has felt kind of natural to do what I've already been doing.

And the idea of transferring over. As in terms of the reality of just like day to day, it feels very like a very comfortable thing, which obviously I know you run into things you don't expect, but that's okay. It's really for me because I just haven't had to deal with, you know, I, I think I'm gun shy because of what happened with my element.

And because I don't have all the tools to like fully understand, you know, when you look at a van, when you read all of the specifications and stuff, because you're dealing with a lot more like. What does that really mean? And is that the right thing? Or should I be asking these questions? And then you look at, because there's so many vans out there, you're like, Oh my gosh, which one do I even start with?

That's the part that gets me kind of like stalled more than anything. I know once I get the right one that yes, there will be issues. And and you know, there'll be things that you have to learn anyway. It's just, I just want to make sure like I make the right. You know, I [00:44:00] choose something that's really going to work for me and the dog and, and that, for the most part, I, you know, goes the way I'm hoping.

Chris: Yeah. I mean, it's analysis paralysis, right? It is, it is a real thing. And I, I totally get, get in respect that, that, that would be overwhelming. I think, I think something that might help is if you do happen to find one. Have you heard of RV share or outdoorsy? 

Anna: I think I've actually heard of both of them 

Chris: lightly.

I wonder if it'd be beneficial for you to maybe hop on there and rent a van for a day or two and just get a feel. Like find one that has the AC. Has the storage that you are thinking about and just take it out for a couple of days with your dog. And then that way you can start to get a real life narrowing of what might work for you.

Yeah. I [00:45:00] mean that way you can actually drive it. You can sleep in it. Makes me wonder if that's the best path forward, just like if you're set on a van And kind of what the criteria I was telling you about with the AC, just kind of see how that feels with the pup and just kind of go, go from there.

I mean, regardless, I always give this advice to everybody, say you're down in Texas and you find one on Facebook marketplace, you find this 2017. Ram pro master van that really speaks to you. Don't just, and you might've learned this with the element. Don't just buy it outright. Part of the buying agreement is it goes to the Dodge dealership and it gets the codes pulled and previous codes and make sure there was no fatal issues that were just cleared before you bought it have them do like, not just like a look over, check the brakes and check the oil, like ask for a compression test, [00:46:00] ask for an injector test. Like just have them do the most that they can do because you might spend four or five hundred dollars But if you buy a 90, 000 van that needs a new engine They're not cheap.

So I think just kind of safeguarding yourself and getting out there and getting some some practice in Because if you haven't lived in a camper van or a school bus You're really not gonna know what you want until you're in there.

So some of these thoughts that are non negotiable right now actually might be negotiable once you get a little taste for it. So that might be something that could save you a lot of money and a lot of headache trying to redesign Something after you get it 

Anna: Okay, that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah, I might do that.

Did you have one thing that you thought was a super non negotiable that you ended up dropping, personally?

Chris: I would say a shower. I still have a shower, for example.[00:47:00] So my big bus has a 32 by 32 shower. Mm hmm. I love it. But, being that I moved to this little guy, I now have Nemo, little pressurized guy, that works just as well.

Definitely wanted, like it's a little foot pedal thing and it pressurizes in here. And then I just warm up my water in a kettle. That's cool. I guess the shower is still a non negotiable for me, but it's like I found a different route to do a shower. 

Anna: Yeah, that's fair. I think for me, I like, cause I've considered just not having an actual shower inside, you know, inside a van. I don't mind that either and having just like, you know, an outdoor one or using planet fitness or something, you know, to be able to whatever, but the impression I got is that you can't get a home mortgage if there's no bathroom in there, that's the only reason I've kind of like included that in the, the option, but I don't know if that's actually true.

Chris: Yeah , I don't know anything about that, but I can tell you I do have a composting toilet and this mini bus and having a toilet is [00:48:00] a non negotiable for me. Some people just take the shovel and go out into the woods and, you know, they're, they're, they're good with that. I, I definitely enjoy having a toilet. I have a nature's head and every rig that we build has one. I've had one of my bus since 2017 and it's been great.

Anna: Yeah, I've heard they actually work way better than you'd expect.

Chris: Yeah, smells, smells not bad. Easy, like 15 minutes to clean and that's like once a month, month and a half with one person. Yeah, it's not bad. Not bad at all, especially, I, I have experience with black tank issues in an RV. Anytime somebody tells me a compost until it's not worth it, I'm like, okay, just wait till wait till you have an issue and you have to deal with that.

Yeah, not fun. Zero star, highly not suggest, but with, with showers too, people also use their, their faucet. So with, with the bus, you know, with all the [00:49:00] windows, you can just put the window down and then put the water on it. If it has a little push button, then you can just shower outside too. Yeah. There's, there's, there's tons of options for showering.

Nemo showers been so easy. Awesome. That's cool. All right, cool, but it depends on your loan Yeah, you got you got a different different set of circumstances going on with with potentially buying an already converted van 

Anna: Yeah, I'll have to see. I need to actually really look into that the how the loan stuff really works. You know, cuz that'll that'll really change what I'm able to get and whatnot. That was kind of, that was kind of passed down information to me about being able to get a mortgage in the first place and I knew that, I know that that really is a thing, I just don't know what the stipulations are, like, how minimally the van or RV can be built out in order to still qualify, so.

Chris: Yeah, and one, one other piece of advice say you're, I mean, I guess there's a couple points with, with the vans, I already mentioned the [00:50:00] mechanic part. Invest in that, spend that money to have it thoroughly looked over. Also with your electrical equipment, like they don't sponsor us. I don't get any kickback for saying this, but Victron components are some of the best you can get for like your inverter, charge controller, DC to DC charger. Your DC to DC is basically when your engine's on, it'll also charge your, your batteries. There's tons of good third party lithium batteries out there now. Lithium, like if it has lithium batteries, whether it be Battleborn or Litime or golden mate. Like there's, there's a lot of sok sok is a good company. If it has lithium batteries. And your solar panels don't really matter that much. Like there's a lot of good companies out there now. But making sure that it has, if you get one with solar, which they, it probably will, like, I would highly suggest that you look into Victron components.

If they have that, the batteries don't matter as [00:51:00] much as long as they're lithium. And you can, you can cross check Amazon. Say you look at this thing and it has golden mate, go to Amazon, look up golden mate batteries and look at the reviews, like. There, there are some bad ones out there, but a lot of them are good.

Okay. With, with your solar panels, it's the same way. Like there's a lot of good companies out there. If they did a DIY van or they built a van, they're probably not going to put bad panels on there. But I would just highly suggest you look into Victron, make sure that thing has Victron components.

Diving into the deep blue sea. 

Anna: Lord, that's all right. It's very like me to do this. So I might as well just keep jumping. 

Chris: Well, myself, my partner, and we actually just talked to a bunch of nomadic people. We had like a little bit of a pizza party gathering thing. And like the, the one thing we all had in common is we just jumped [00:52:00] into it and figured it out.

Like that, that is the bar, right? Like it takes a certain type of person to do it. But to the person, every single one of us is glad we did it and feel blessed that we were able to do it and pull it off.

Anna: Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, I think, if I had decided to do this, like in a slightly less kind of time constrained and like, you know, dog stressed kind of environment. I would totally do the build out on my own. I'd like to, I know it's not, not necessarily as beautiful of an experience as everybody makes it up to be, but I know everybody that has finished it is still excited. They did it. It's one of those trade offs, right? Like, and I can, I understand that, but I love, I love the idea. Cause then you know, every single thing that went into it and being able to make those decisions and then learn how to do those things too. Like I, I like learning. To, you know, make, know how to make and do new things, but yeah, with the, with the time schedule and the no home base and the no tools and stuff, I kind of have to skip a lot of that, but I still want to make like, you know, the best decision I can.

So [00:53:00] yeah.

Chris: Yeah. I mean, it, it is a great experience, but when it comes down to it, it, it takes so many pieces to line up, right. And if you're on a time crunch, I would not suggest it. Yeah. Yeah. 

Anna: That was kind of, that's kind of been the advice I kept getting and I was like, okay, it will take a lot longer than I expected.

I was like, yeah, two and a half months. No problem. Like I'll do it with like gigging all the time and working and like not having tools. And somebody was like, yeah, you're, you're, you're dreaming. And I was like, okay, cool. Thank you. Thank you for letting me know. Cause 

Chris: yeah. I was like with, with my raised root bus, six months, I'll have this wrapped up.

It was 14 months and I still didn't have it painted. I didn't have a ceiling on it. Wow. No ceiling? No ceiling. Cause I, I was just ready cause I, I had tiny home tours and I was like, it was me and one other videographer and one editor at the time. So I had to get out and work like there, there was no.

No way around it. So I was driving around [00:54:00] this Mad Max bus to where it was yellow at the top gray on the side from sheet metal, yellow at the bottom it lit in cause I didn't paint it. So the sheet metal started to patina. So it literally looked like something from Mad Max, like a hundred percent from Mad Max and the looks I got, but I mean, I, I had to get it done.

I had to get down the road, you know, so. But any additional thoughts, questions, anything else on your list that you were curious about? 

Anna: No, I think that, I mean, I think that was a really good starting kit. And I, I think, you know, the majority of questions after this that come up are going to be when I'm actually like sitting and looking at specifications or going at it being like, does this matter?

Like, what do you look up for? You know, and, and I just need to kind of. Yeah. Yeah. No, thank you. It's been a ton of good info. I really appreciate it. 

Chris: Yeah. So one of my favorite people I listen to online and I, I, this goes through my head all the [00:55:00] time and I just don't want you to get down about it or feel overwhelmed.

I mean, it's going to be overwhelming. That's not just part of it, but whenever that happens, just think this is what hard feels like. Like. If it were easy, and again, we're going back to those old tried and true overused statements. If it were, if it were easy, everybody would do it. So I just want you to know that, yeah, what, like trying to find the rigs and trying to figure out specifications and talking to potential sellers and all that, it's going to be stressful.

It's going to be hard, but that's what hard feels like. And you just have to keep going because the other side is. It's definitely worth it. 

Anna: I believe that. Thank you. And I'm no, I'm not, I'm not shy about, about hard work. So that'll be, I'm actually, I'm looking forward to it. I just, I just want to have my tools, my info tools so I can go out into the world and then just know how to proceed.

I'm one of those, like, I have a hard time making decisions until I know the details. That's my, [00:56:00] my one holdup, but I, but I'm excited about it. Yeah. 

Chris: Awesome. Well, if people were wanting to check out your music or follow you, if you do get a van and check out your travels, how, how could they tag along and yeah.

Anna: So right now I use social media probably as the Instagram, Facebook, all of those things, Tik TOK. So my name is Anna Lamare. So it's a N N a L a. M A R E. And I'm not technically released on Spotify or anything yet, but I have SoundCloud and YouTube and that's all under the same name. So you, you put my name in, it'll go, it's everywhere.

But my Instagram has a link tree to everything. So that's probably the best ways from at Anna Lamare music. 

Chris: Absolutely. And that will all be in the show notes and the description of the video as well. So thank you for recording today and excited to hear how it goes for you. 

Anna: Thank you. I appreciate it, Chris. 

Outro: This [00:57:00] is a Tiny Home Tours production. Thank you so much for listening. Don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe for all future episodes. We'll see you next week.