Raising Twins on the Road with Tal

In today's episode, Ally sits down to chat with Tal from @twins_on_wheels. After selling their belongings and flying to the U.S. from Israel, Tal and her family dove headfirst into life on the road. After 8 months in a van, Tal and her husband Ori self-converted a skoolie which they now live in. Listen as Ally chats with Tal about parenting, relationships, and all things road life!

For full show notes for this episode click here.

To follow Tal & Ori's journey check out their Instagram at: @twins_on_wheels
Or, check out their website: www.twinsonwheels.com

 Be sure to check out the Rocky Mountain Bus Sales (where Tal & Ori purchased their 30 ft. bus from): www.rockymtnbus.com

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Transcript

Raising Twins on the Road with Tal

Apply To Be Featured:: [00:00:00] Are you interested in showcasing your home? If you've gone tiny and would love to show off your van, bus, RV Yurt, boat, dome, or traditional Tiny Home, click the link below and apply to be featured on the Tiny Home Tours channel.

Intro: Welcome back to the Tiny Home Tourist Podcast. The tiny house made me feel in my body this thing that I think I always understood, which is that there are no rules, like you're literally living in the moment. I know it's a cliches saying, but living this lifestyle consistently puts me in that mindset.

It's about keeping all of the things that matter to you and letting everything else go. I've been scared a lot of times. But I just, I jump anyways I guess. You have to jump. Join us each week as we share stories, wisdom, and practical tips from those who choose to have less and live more. 

Ally: Hi guys, this is [00:01:00] Ally from Satya Creative and today we're sitting down with Tal from Twins on Wheels. She is a mother to adorable two and a half year old twin girls and she and her husband travel full time in their converted school bus with the girls on board. This feels particularly near and dear to my heart.

Because I moved into my tiny house on wheels when my twin boys were two and a half. And we traveled with them for a year. So you don't often meet other twin parents on the road. So this is a really special one for me today. Thank you so much for sitting down. I really appreciate it, Tal. 

Yeah, thank you for having me.

We are going to start with a fun icebreaker, a game, two truths and a lie. So Tal will tell us three facts about their bus life adventures, and I'm going to guess which one is the lie. 

Tal: Okay, so the first one we were in Phoenix in a A public park and this woman came up to us and told us that, you know, she asked if we are homeless and we need a shelter.

And she also offered us, [00:02:00] she said there was like a food kitchen nearby if we need it and if we need anything for the girls and we were both. both kind of like, wait, what? Confused. But you know, obviously she meant it from a genuine place. And the second one is we were in Colorado, which is where we bought the bus and our, when we went up to elevation, our toilet exploded. And you know, that's a whole mess. And the third one is that when we were still living in our van so the girls were like about a year old I posted a TikTok video of me feeding the girls, and you know, they're just outside, dirty, whatever, and that TikTok went very, very viral, and, you know, everyone came out saying, like, these poor children, and they're so dirty, and look at the mom, she's so dirty, and poor kids, they don't have space.

This is horrible. What I'm doing to them. Why am I feeding them Bonzo? Yeah. 

Ally: Unfortunately I am 99 percent certain number three is true because I had that happen [00:03:00] to me with our tiny home tour video actually that I filmed back in, that was summer of 2018. People said they were going to call CPS on us and Chris had to delete some of the comments.

It was It felt horrible to have people be so judgmental of a life. I just my life that you know, I know that one's true, but I know toilets explode too. So I'm going with number one is the lie. I really every hope 

Tal: So, no, actually, the toilet one is a lie because we have a composting toilet, doo doo doo, which is great, but when I was talking to a friend, I was like, gosh, help me, like, think of a good lie, and he told me the story of a friend that this actually did happen, too, and I was like, oh, that's a really good one, because that sounds horrible, having, like, black water and all that, so, apparently, in elevation, your black water can explode, but that is another reason to go with a composting toilet.

So, yeah, that's it. 

Ally: They're the best. Everybody on here knows how much I love my composting toilet. So good job. Yes. [00:04:00] So I have so many questions, but let's just start with telling us a little bit about your journey to nomad life with twins. What inspired it? I'm sure similarly to us. A lot of people thought you were a little crazy.

But I do really understand just the need or desire to step outside of the norm when life can feel pretty much like a production line with twins, you know, two tiny infants at the same time. 

Tal: Yeah. Yeah. So we we actually did IVF for a long time and always put in one embryo and kind of like this is during COVID and We're from Israel where IVF is actually free and we were kind of like, okay, let's do one more round.

This is after I had my miscarriage and we were like, let's put in two embryos because if one doesn't work, then at least the other one will and it will work out and They ended up both catching and we were like, okay, this is actually kind of good. Honestly, I don't know why we didn't do this earlier. And we were like, you know, one and done two kids, boom, bam, like all done.

And then we were kind of like, you know, we wanted to be with our [00:05:00] kids from a very young age and, and kind of be at home with them and really enjoy those first few years with them instead of putting them under someone else's care. If you want to do that with twins, you kind of can't work, honestly, at least, like, the first year or two, unless you were having some kind of help, so we were like, well, if we're both not going to be working, there's no reason for us to pay, like, expensive Tel Aviv rent, and why don't we go do this dream that we've always had of doing van life?

Like, you know, they'll have each other, so it's not a problem of, like, having one kid on the road, and we kind of were like, this is honestly, like, ideal. So then, Ori did a lot of due diligence and actually, we first lived in a van, so as, you know, like, the girls were born and we actually bought our van from a dealer, it was like a, it was like a stock Winnebago Solis van we bought it from a dealership and actually landed in the U. S., In Austin, Texas, [00:06:00] and the dealership picked us up in the van and we literally like just dropped into van life like from the airplane from Israel to, you know, just living in this tiny little van. Yeah. 

Ally: That's awesome. And then like the van to the bus. How did that transpire? 

Tal: Yeah. So then we were living in the van for eight months.

It's a stock van, but it has a pop top and we already did a lot of work to think like, okay, what's the best van for us? You know, like a family of four, they're tiny infants. They're only eight months old. So we were like, you know, they don't need a lot of. space. And we can't like we found this van that is perfect because it has the pop top and then a couch that folds out to a bed on the bottom and back seat so we can put their car seats in and everything.

And for a while that worked until they started getting bigger and started walking and, you know, doing all the things and wanting to be outside and[00:07:00] actually really Really early in our van life days, we were in Joshua Tree and like, you know, this was probably a month into our travels, and we met these two families, or three families that were living in these ginormous school buses, and we didn't know schoolies was a thing, like, We didn't, we've never heard of schoolies before and then we see these three buses and they're like massive and one family has three kids, one family has four kids and one family has five kids and we were like, Oh my God, that's just crazy, you know and I, and we both thought to ourselves like, wow, that's like, you know, they have a car with them and a van and a bus and we were like, you know, it's cool because we're in this like stealthy tiny van and we can like move all the time.

Yeah. And then we actually re-met up with two of those families like six months down the road, and we were doing all the like national parks in Utah together, and there was days that it was like super sunny, or really like windy, and we were kind of like, oh shit, during these days, like we couldn't do anything, we were like stuck in this [00:08:00] tiny van, and they had like these massive buses that they could like, Being so a lot of times we'd kind of like go in and hang out with them.

And then we were like, you know, maybe like this van doesn't work out for us anymore. Like we don't have shade. We don't have place for the girls to hang out. We were spending a lot of time at libraries and we were like, okay, it's either, you know. Moving on from this lifestyle or getting a bigger rig, and that's when we started talking about schoolies And we really didn't want to go down the route of like a big school bus and a car We really wanted to still have that like ability to be in the city.

I mean obviously it's not so stealth when you're In a bus. But so we really wanted a 30 foot bus. Because it has a really short wheelbase. It actually has a 1 70 wheelbase. So it's kind of like a lot of the van. So it's just a huge overhang in the back. And those are really hard to come by. So we at first, I don't know if you want to get into it.

But at first we found this other this short [00:09:00] schooling and or he actually flew to Vegas. So we were We were in Denver at the time and, Ori flew to Vegas, I stayed in Denver with the girls. And drove this like tiny bus to, to Denver and then he comes up and I was like, Oh my God, this van is like, I mean, this bus is like only two feet longer than our van and it doesn't have a pop top.

Like this is not gonna work. So we were like, ah, let's, maybe we'll convert it and like, maybe we'll sell it. I don't know. We were very confused. And then we ended up headed heading down to this festival in southern Colorado. And on the way we were in our van on the way we saw this like Rocky Mountain bus company.

And I was driving at the time. So I said, Oh, look up their website. Like, let's see what buses they have. And Lo and behold, they had a 30 foot bus. So we were like, Oh, we got to stop and check it out. So before the festival, we went and saw this bus and we were like, this is cool. And the whole time in the [00:10:00] festival, we were like, you know, should we do this?

Should we not? Is it crazy? We just bought this other bus that like we left in Boulder for the weekend. And like, are we going to do this? Like, what are we doing? And, Ori was like, let's take it for a test drive on the way back from the festival and, and like, you know, see, and I said, the only way I'm doing this is if he's willing to do like some kind of trade with the other bus we had or like sell our other bus, and he was willing to do that.

And this guy is awesome if anyone's looking for a great bus in the Denver area. So we actually left the other bus. Or he drove this that that short bus to his lot and we bought the other bus and then he sold our other bus. So, and then, yeah, 

Ally: how amazing that he was willing to do that trade with you, especially with 30 foot so hard to come by.

That's even 

Tal: Yeah, yeah, it was it was great. It was super awesome. [00:11:00] And it really ended up working out pretty well for us. I'm 

Ally: so glad we're talking. I didn't realize that you also did IVF. We did IVF, but it is not covered in the United States. But we moved states because my ex husband was offered a job at Amazon and Amazon actually pays for IVF.

So we moved to Seattle. Just so that we could do IVF, but I thoroughly dislike the rain and, you know, the city is great, but it was hard to live there and be tied to there, but we had to be tied to there just because we had now promised them, I think it was two years. 

Tal: Okay. 

Ally: But it is funny when you don't think you're going to end up with twins and then, whoo, there you go.

Tal: Yeah, exactly, exactly. But luckily, you know, I feel like I saw so many of my friends give birth to one or a few years later to another kid and seeing, you know, their journeys and stuff. And I think I was, like, very ready. You know, I'm an older mother. Like, I [00:12:00] became a mom at 35, so, like, I feel like I took it very, like, easy and kind of didn't cave into these, like, stresses and all these, like, Ooh, you gotta buy all these things for your kids.

Like, I was kind of like, no. And a lot of it is, thankfully, because of Ori as well, who grew up, like, very non materialistic and It was like, we don't need any of these things. There's literally like two things you really, really need with kids. And besides that, it's like, you know, you can Find solutions to everything.

I think 

Ally: the majority of parents who are living on the road would echo that same sentiment of you don't need nearly as much as you're told that you need. And it's a really, it becomes a really sad rat race where people are like, I need the next best, you know, shake your baby thing. And then the baby just cries in it and they want you to hold them anyway.

Tal: Yeah, exactly. And not only that, I mean, even if you do want to opt in and get those expensive [00:13:00] things, you can buy really good secondhand stuff. You know, the, the baby market is just so insane and just the, you know, you end up using half of your things less than a year. So, you know, if you can get them used and, and save a couple of bucks, like do it.

And I think twins, twin parents do it more often than non twin parents, because they're like, Oh my God, getting two of everything is, you know, crazy. So I think moms of twins have that. It's pretty lucky in that sense that like, I think they have that more quote unquote like rationale of like, Okay, I'm not gonna buy everything new, there's maybe a few things I'll buy new, but like, most of it I'll find second hand and like Facebook groups or like online or, you know, there's a lot of consignment stores nowadays for kids and stuff like that.

So 

Ally: Absolutely. Yeah. So I have a ton of hilarious and pretty unbelievable [00:14:00] memories from road life with the twins. I feel like I'm playing two truths and a lie all the time with people when I tell the stories of road life. They used to climb into other people's homes on wheels. I found really interesting ways to corral them.

Potty training on the compost toilet was my, it's my favorite memory of all time. What are some of your favorite memories of the girls being 

Tal: on the road with them? So funny. You mentioned potty training because before we move, we moved into like like you know, the nomadic lifestyle, we did cloth diapers.

And then we knew once we moved into the van, we wouldn't, wouldn't be able to do that anymore. So we like Did the, what's called elimination communication from a very young age of like, you know, listening to their cues and like you know, putting them on the potty. But let's be honest, like there are no cues.

They literally just go. So you're like, you kind of end up learning their schedule. Like, okay. In the morning they usually poop. So like you put them on the potty. So, and Ori, I would say more so than me, like really, really hates diapers. So he was very adamant on like, by the age [00:15:00] of one and a half, like they're going to be potty trained.

And I was like, okay, I mean, we'll see. I don't know. They were totally potty trained by the age of two, but until then it was really funny because we actually would keep them pantless almost always. And just kind of like, you know, put a coat on them or whatever, and then kind of like bottoms out and because we spent a lot of times in the desert or, you know, in you know, they were never cold.

So, like, I know. Probably people in the comments are now gonna go wild to be like why you kept your kids bottomless like what are you doing? But yeah, we kept them bottomless and actually our friends at Jess and Shawn the Crux and beta They're called they would always kind of like make fun of us, you know But in like a funny way being like, you know, you're pantless kids like put some pants on those girls, you know but honestly, it was great because it saved a lot of diapers and you know They'd always be like, Oh, I need to pee.

And then they'd like, they'd on purpose go to like some like dirt area [00:16:00] and like, you know, Sean, Jess and Sean have two dogs and a cat. And so they'd see that. And we'd always be like, look here, they're peeing and they're pooping. And then they'll be like, Oh, me too. So. So that's some of like my favorite memories.

I remember especially when we were like Jess and Shawn helped us build the girl's bedroom. And so like, it was, you know, the girls were a little bit before two and we were in Joshua tree and the girls were just like, Pantless the whole time and we were like building the bus and it was just funny.

Also, I will add like as in memories, like we built our bus while traveling. Because you know, it wasn't our first rig. So it was like, we moved into it. So we did a very fast and dirty build and then. We continued building on the road, which brought a lot of stress and like awful moments, but like, you know, now looking back, I'm like, oh my god, how did I live with like sheets of plywood in the middle of my bus while raising twins [00:17:00] in the winter?

I mean, granted it was Arizona, so it's not like freezing, but still it was like rainy and whatever. So there's days that we'd have to like, stay inside and we would like, Move the plywood to the left side to get to those drawers. And then now let's move it to the right. And I remember being like, gosh, like I cannot wait to finish this build already.

And yeah, now we're done. 

Ally: Thank God now we're done. Yeah, that's amazing that you have the girls potty trained by two. I don't think my boys potty trained until like three and a half boys or later at doing everything I feel like. But with a compost toilet, boys have to sit down also, you know, with the urine diverter.

And so they spent a lot of time sitting down on the potty rather than like learning to, you know, stand up. And I was cooking dinner and of course in a tiny house, you know, your bathroom is right here and your kitchen's right here. So door is wide open. He's one of my twins is sitting on the potty and, and he's like, mom, ma, it grows.

I was like, mm hmm, keep going potty, just keep focusing, it's getting bigger, and he was making like [00:18:00] regular announcements to me, he had just learned that it grows, and it's, I think it's because he just spent so much time sitting on the potty rather than standing, and there were, announcements went for about five minutes.

Tal: So funny. That's hilarious. So ours we have like a tiny, like baby Bjorn potty for them. We don't put them on the composting toilet because I'm always scared that they're going to poop and it's going to go in the urine diaper. That happened. I have a photo of it. Yep. Yeah. And I'm like, I am not about to clean that.

So I'd rather just like poop in your little tiny potty. But now like we go to coffee shops and we go to places and they just go on the regular, like big toilet. And sometimes they're like, I want to go in the big toilet. And I'm like, okay. You know, so, yeah. 

Ally: Your fear is correct, though. That does happen.

So, until you're ready to clean 

Tal: it up. I imagine. That's why I'm like, you know, who doesn't have a poop story, you know, that lives, someone who lives on the road, like, definitely has some interesting stories about bathroom. So, yeah. 

Ally: A really interesting part of the [00:19:00] conversation around becoming a mother circles around just how much you feel like you lose yourself.

There are podcasts and books around how to maintain your sense of identity, you know, it's, it's definitely a big part of the conversation. I'm not sure if it was the same for you, but being a twin mom just felt next level. I didn't even realize I'd lost myself until the boys were probably like two years old, a year and a half, you know, and, and it took some time to rebuild.

And how has, how has being a twin mom on the road shaped who you are and what your experience was with trying to maintain your identity while caring for these. Not just one tiny human, two tiny humans. 

Tal: Well, I mean, I don't know how many hours you have. No, I'm just kidding. So yeah, I mean, I'll start by saying that I, before I gave birth, I actually also owned a business.

So I had a nut butter business back in Israel. So I was like, you know, had a whole business. And I was also working for this company that bought a part of my company. And I was heading all their marketing for all these food [00:20:00] brands. And. You know, it was kind of like the trajectory, like that's kind of what I wanted to do with my life is like, you know, marketing for all these like awesome CPG companies and like branding and stuff.

And and then I realized that it just wasn't going to be feasible and I ended up selling my business two months before I gave birth. So I went into motherhood already kind of with like, with nothing anchoring me in the sense of like the old quote unquote, like the old me, you know, like I went into motherhood, like with a clean slate, like it was like, okay, and now you are only a mother.

And I think so for a long time, I was like, what am I going to do with my life? Like after, you know, like, okay, I'm with them now. And I, I think that took a lot of my, energies a lot of times that I was like thinking like how do I reinvent myself? What do I even do? What are my skill sets? Like I don't know what I'm good at and six weeks after I gave birth, I actually did a yoga teacher training which was great because I was like, I want to go more into [00:21:00] movement.

I during the last few years before becoming a mother, I got really into circus arts and like flow arts. And I was like, I want to do this with my life and I want to do something that has to do with like movement and wellness on that end. And and so I did the yoga teacher training because I was like, this is great.

Like I have time now on my hands and I can do new things. And so I think at first that was great. And then kind of like what you said you know, until the girls were a little older, all of a sudden. Like you don't have the time to be like, I'm going to do other things, but for me, I think all along from the minute we started van life, when we both stopped working, our worry was like, okay, how do we continue this lifestyle and make money on the road?

For me at first, I was like, well, let's do like what everyone does, which is like Instagram and social media. And like everyone does it and everyone makes money. And lo and behold, I realized that like most people who do it actually don't really make money from it. Or if they do, it's, it's [00:22:00] really a full time job.

Like, it's not like, oh, let me just make a reel, real quick, you know, it's, you know, they're looking at it as a business. So I definitely lost myself for a while. And I think only in recent months. I mean, we could talk about it a little bit later, but like, we also kept going back and forth of like, is this good for us to be on the road?

Or should we go to a house? And I think, I mean, we're still always every day is like a different response. And, you know, depending on what the what happens. And there's definitely days that I'm like, gosh, if I wasn't on the road, I could be doing this. And, you know, I could have more time because I wouldn't Always be with my kids.

And if I was around my family, like I would have more help and I would be able to do more of me. So I think for a while, especially our hardest age with the girls was probably from like 11 months to like around 2021 months, which was the time that I was like, I am never. We're gonna have time to do anything and I think I was in this [00:23:00] like really bad situation that I was like, I'm only a mother like everyone who's been meeting me on the road like doesn't really know me like they know me as like the twins mom and like I don't have hobbies.

I don't have things that I'm doing. And I think only in the last couple of months as we slow down our travels and started like, you know, staying in places and creating more community and, and the girls have aged a little bit. So now I'm like able to do more of the things I love, which is aerial arts and circus.

And also like start to think of like, what is a way that I want to make money? How can I impact other people and, and kind of figure it out. And with the Instagram thing is like, to me, I'm like, I don't want to just. I don't want to be just doing Instagram and like posting about other brands. Like I want to give value to people and I don't know what that value is yet.

If anyone wants to help me um, but so, you know, like I'm [00:24:00] kind of, I'm seeing it right now is like, I am in this stage of like the creative, like trying to like bring everything up to the surface and kind of not making any. Decisions of like, this is what I'm going to do now, but just kind of like.

Growing organically, I guess you can say, and seeing what happens and what I gravitate to naturally, 

Ally: you really are in a like, in hindsight for me, just a really interesting, beautiful part of the process, like when my boys were two and a half. That's when I felt like I started to rebuild. And I got to leave parts of myself behind that didn't really feel like they suited me anymore, worked for me, and bring parts in that felt like they did. It wasn't until the boys were four that I started teaching yoga again, and I started my woodworking business. So, you know, you're just, you're, you're still very much in it with them being two and a half and you know, we get the opportunity at [00:25:00] any time in our life to be like, okay, am I gonna look at this like an opportunity or Like a, you know, something really shitty and I just decided to look at everything like an opportunity.

So I, I just feel like you're in this really beautiful time of rebuilding and you get to build it however you want. 

Tal: I appreciate you saying that because I've been definitely like trying to change my mindset into like, this is an opportunity time period of like, just cultivating, whether it's like meeting new people and seeing how they can fit into my life and seeing how I can like, you know, bring all these hobbies and all these.

things that I love together and actually being able to take that and move forward. So I love that you said like that you started at four. I'm like, okay, cool. So I have like a year and a half more of like this, like brewing period and like no need to rush it, which a lot of times I'm like, Oh my God, come on.

Like I got to do, you know? So thank you. 

Ally: We're never behind. It's always the right time. I had kids later. Also, my boys were born when I was 34. [00:26:00] So Like, you know, it's never, it's never the wrong time. It's always the right time. 

Tal: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. 

Ally: This, this part of the conversation, I've been excited to ask you this question just cause I know you guys are in this right now.

Also, you've openly shared about some of your relationship struggles online. Becoming a parent rocks everyone's world. But becoming a parent to twins means you can't tag team when you have. You're both holding a screaming infant in the middle of the night, and you're both first time parents, and you don't know how to problem solve that, you know, you can't help each other out, and I know that that was a huge part of the downfall for mine and my ex's relationship, and then, and then I thought that moving into the tiny house would help our relationship and make it all better, and of course, it just put a magnifying glass on the cracks in the relationship, and so it's really cool to hear that you guys are having these conversations.

to hopefully, you know, do better for yourselves and for the girls than my, you know, myself and my ex were able to do. But what is that looking like for you [00:27:00] guys? 

Tal: So it's, it's it's funny that you moved into the tiny, like, to try to repair your relationship. I feel like, you know, whenever people ask me something, I'm like, if you really want to, like, test your relationship and test your, like, grit.

Move into a tiny space with a person, if you want to test it even more, bring twins in the mix. If you want to test it even more, then try building your bus while living in it, while traveling. With the twins. While also not working and making And being stressed about money.

Exactly. So like, we I think that honestly, I can't think of anything harder to put your relationship through than, like, what we have done. And I'm really proud of us for, like, I don't know if the word is, like, sticking it through or, like, for, like, just, I [00:28:00] don't know. Yeah. Like sticking it through at least like that first hard part.

I think a lot of it was also kind of because we didn't have a choice but to stick it through because like, you know you're kind of in this situation that you can't leave. And, you know, we're from Israel. We don't have a home base in the U. S. I don't have a place to all of a sudden go to when things are bad.

It was literally like we are in it together. And to add on to that Ori is not an American citizen, so we applied for a green card. So we were in this situation that we couldn't go back home to Israel without jeopardizing his ability to get a green card and stay in the U. S. So even when the times were really hard and we were like, F it, like, let's go back to Israel and like, go back to our old life, it wasn't an option because we were like, In this stuck situation and there were definitely moments [00:29:00] that for me, I think for me, it was really, really hard.

Because I'm a very social person and for me, I felt really stuck. Like, I felt like I don't want to stay in the U. S. because our life sucks right now. I can't go back to Israel because we have to wait for this green card. And Like We are just not in a good place because we're dealing with a lot of logistics, you know I think a big problem with van life is like decision fatigue, you know every day you wake up and from the moment You wake up you have to make decisions whether it's where am I gonna sleep?

What am I gonna do? You know what am I going to eat like just so many decisions and then you look at people like Mark Zuckerberg who wears like a gray shirt every day and, you know, tries to like lower his decision fatigue. And here we are doing the exact opposite. And so I think we were both in this [00:30:00] place of like, just in a really bad loop, like I was feeling very ungrateful and very triggered by our living situation and the fact that I couldn't leave and just expressed a lot of like I expressed a lot of like unhappy thoughts and feelings and the girls, you know, whether it was being annoyed with the girls because, you know, they're just like crazy toddlers and me having to be with them all day.

I was also breastfeeding and so it was just a lot to be with them all day, every day. And I was, I would always complain like, Oh, I don't do enough movement. I don't do yoga and I don't do aerials. And or he saw that as like, I hate my life. And I. I didn't necessarily see it at that, but I was like, gosh, I wish I was able to do more of the things I love and Ori on his side, he was like trying to build our life, you know, he was like, I'm building this bus, I'm trying to get a green card, like I'm trying to get our things straight, and it just felt like we were [00:31:00] living in this tiny space together, but like parallel universes, like just like totally different lives.

You know, and it's funny because when we first started out Van Life, Ori was like, this is amazing. This is the best thing ever. And to me, I was like, I don't have my community. I don't have my, my aerial silks. Like I am this and that. And to him, he was like, okay, you're only complaining. So let's try to improve those things for you and and kind of at some point the table turned a little bit and you know he was building the bus and doing all this work and you know, like finding where to fill water and doing electrical and all these things and and then The tables kind of turned that all of a sudden I was like, this life is awesome.

And like, look at us, we can park wherever we want and we have our house with us. And she was like, well, this kind of sucks. Like, so so yeah, for a while we were doing pretty poorly. And I think. At the [00:32:00] end, what, you know, we, we had a conversation one day where things were kind of getting really bad because we were just kind of like living and, you know, dealing with each other just logistically.

And at that time, Ori already started working full time. So I was with the girls full time. And he was working remote from the bus. And I said to him, you know, I am really unhappy with our relationship. Like, I feel like we don't have a relationship. And he was like, you know, I'm really unhappy too. And I think it was when we both kind of started speaking out our truths and saying what we feel to one another, which is really hard to hear a lot of times and very triggering.

That was when we were like, okay, well. I, we don't want to break up, but we both don't want this relationship. So if this is the relationship that it's going to be, then we need to break up. And that was kind of when we had this wake up call that it was like, we need to split up. Like we need to, we can't be together.

And [00:33:00] obviously you can't just split up right away because. You live in a bus and you're like in the middle of like the 395 road on your way up to like Lake Tahoe. And you're like, I can't just leave right now. So we were like, well, let's Let's see this summer if there's certain things that we can do to improve our relationships.

So slowing down our travels, we realized that for us, traveling just the four of us wasn't working out. Especially because Ori worked most of the day and I was with the girls and I needed more social interactions. And and we just needed to slow down our travels. Like Ori, you know, also didn't want to drive every day, so.

We realized that once we slow down, it could get better. And we kind of said to ourselves, like, let's go to Bend, which is a place that we really wanted to go. And and a few people mentioned to us that, like, we could find a good community there because we were thinking about stopping you know, nomadic life.

We were like, let's give ourselves [00:34:00] until October, which is when we want to go to Israel because our good friends are getting married and we said, let's take these months and like actually work on our relationship. So we started going to therapy. So we do it on zoom.

It's called Imago therapy, which is It's like mirroring an image. It's it's really cool. So if anyone will want to ask, you can ask me on our social media or wherever. So we started doing some Imago therapy. I've been doing my own therapy with an amazing coach slash. amazing woman, witch lady. I'd call her, Kate.

She's awesome. She's been helping me a lot. And yeah, just kind of talking and making some more time for one another. And we also realize and recognize that having twins at the age of two and a half is Really hard. Yeah, and it will pass. 

Ally: You said something earlier. You said, I'm really proud of us for sticking it out through the hard times.

And I just want to say that I'm really proud of you guys for having those really hard conversations. [00:35:00] Because I think that that's where that's where that's what I didn't do. That's what we didn't do. We weren't able to, like, see past the hard things to even be able to have those conversations. And it's really cool that you guys we're able to say, like, I'm not happy, I'm not happy, this is what I'm happy about, and to listen to the other person, even though it probably hurt and felt triggering and you wanted to, you know, be defensive or say something horrible back, probably, or, you know.

Yeah, 

Tal: yeah, yeah, we definitely are learning to speak better. We still trigger each other at times. I don't think that'll And I think that's, you know, every relationship has its triggers. But, um, I mean, I can't think for him, but I know for myself, like I'm trying to do a lot of changing and a lot more listening and like active listening, and it's not always easy for me.

And, you know, we each come with our own baggage and the way we were raised and the way we see conflict. So. I think just recognizing the [00:36:00] differences and being able to, like, you know, say Ori's Ori, or Tal is Tal know, like, don't expect a different outcome from this conversation, you know what I mean?

But like, you know, in a loving and caring way. So, 

Ally: yeah, just having the ability to have that self reflection in a time that's really hard is a really cool thing that you guys were able to cultivate. 

Tal: Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely still hard. We still have moments that I'm like, I don't know, you know, 

Ally: like I said, it's a two and a half was still a really hard time for us, for for me, you know, and for the twins, our hardest months.

You know, time didn't start until like 18 months and lasted until two. So I think boys just do everything a little later. 

Tal: That's only six months. That's great. 

Ally: It was the hardest. There was definitely more hard times, but that was when Bodhi was ripping things off the walls and I would hide in the bathroom from my, one of my kids thinking I had bore a psychopath.

I was like, I think that I birthed a psychopath. I think that [00:37:00] that's what I would sit in the bathroom and cry with the other twin. 

Tal: Yeah, I feel like twin boys. Oh gosh. I'm. Feeling very grateful I have girls on that set. They are nuts. Although when my girls scream, I swear to, like, oh my god, they're so damn loud.

My ears, I think I lost some of my hearing because of these girls, honestly. 

Ally: Probably. Probably. Mine did less screaming, but lots more, like, the physical, you know, they were running in opposite directions into oncoming traffic, or, like, I still, you know, won't leave them alone for even two or three minutes because I think that they would accidentally burn the house down and be like, so sorry, mama.

You know, they're just, they can get themselves into so much trouble so quickly. 

Tal: That's funny. 

Ally: So what advice would you give to parents who want to get on the road, but feel like it just doesn't work when you have children, but you've made it work with twins, so if you can do it. Anybody can do it. 

Tal: So, You know, advice is a [00:38:00] funny thing, but I think my advice would be, if you have a calling to do it, and you're feeling like your surrounding environment is telling you you can't do it, or you shouldn't do it, or what about your kids, but your heart inside is telling you, like, I gotta try, just go out and try it, cause worst case, you just Go back to your old life, you know, like nothing happened, like you can try it out and, and then be like, Oh, actually, this is not working out.

But if you're going to try it out, yeah, you don't need to like go and buy an expensive rig and do all these crazy things like start small and kind of like, Go from there. You know, we started in a van and only then we converted this bus and and now actually we're at a state right now. I mean, I guess like stay tuned to see what happens with us.

But like a month ago, we actually almost sold our bus and we're like, let's do something else [00:39:00] and not live this way anymore. And then something kind of shifted at us in the last month. And we were like, wait a minute, let's not sell the bus. Like, actually, it's a pretty perfect situation for us right now.

So the like. You know, you're, there is no such thing as like a perfect rig. It's only a perfect rig for right now. So like, you know, just start with something and then as you go, you'll see what your needs and wants are. And then you can plan accordingly from that. But I think that just, Sometimes we listen to our surroundings a lot and like we get influenced a lot by our parents and our family and our friends and who tell us like you can't do this or you shouldn't do this or this is unfair for your kids, like, especially when your kids are really young and are not in school and you're not taking them out of school systems yet there's no better time, you know?

So just, just try it. 

Ally: I think those are great words of encouragement. For anyone who's looking all of [00:40:00] Tal and Ori's contact info will be below and we'll also link the person you bought the bus from. He sounds amazing. 

Tal: Yeah. Rocky mountain bus company. They're great.

Ally: Awesome. Thanks so much for sitting down today, Tal. 

Tal: Thank you. It was great. It was a pleasure.

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