Living Catholic with Father Don Wolf
Father Don Wolf, a priest of the Archdiocese of Oklahoma City, offers a Catholic perspective on the issues confronting each person today.
Living Catholic with Father Don Wolf
The Ordinary Face of Evil: How Regular People Commit Extraordinary Horrors | September 21, 2025
In this episode Father Wolf examines recent high-profile killings and their spiritual implications, providing historical context and theological insight into how Christians should respond to cultural violence. He explores how ordinary people can be drawn to commit horrific acts and how faith offers protection against the pervasive evil of our time.
• Recent school shootings and assassinations capture headlines because they capture our interests and fears
• Historical perspective shows similar waves of political violence have occurred throughout history
• The demonic manifests not just supernaturally but through ideologies and movements that dehumanize
• Baptism serves as spiritual protection against pervasive evil, not merely a cultural tradition
• Violence can be attractive because it creates false unity and purpose in society
• Ordinary people can gradually accept and perpetrate atrocities when influenced by cultural currents
• Self-examination and repentance are essential first steps in countering cultural violence
"Our work always is to be present to and be responsive to the work of God in the world. That means that we cast our minds, our hearts and our souls into the hands of God to know his will and to do it, which is, after all, the passport to happiness and the pathway to heaven."
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Father Don Wolf is a priest of the Archdiocese of Oklahoma City. Living Catholic also broadcasts on Oklahoma Catholic Radio several times per week, with new episodes airing every Sunday.
This is Living Catholic with Father Don Wolfe. This show deals with living the Catholic faith in our time, discovering God's presence in our lives and finding hope in His Word. And now your host, father Don Wolfe.
Speaker 2:Welcome Oklahoma to Living Catholic. I'm Father Don Wolfe, pastor of Sacred Heart Parish and rector of the Shrine of Blessed Stanley Rother. The news has been full of killing lately. We were first inundated with the reports of the man who shot up the Assumption of Mary Catholic School in Minnesota. That's an especially sensitive area of concern here in the diocese where we have so many schools. And now there are the CSIS reports as well as the gruesome video of the killing of Charlie Kirk.
Speaker 2:While random murder is nothing new in our society, and while there have been other times in our history in which high-profile killing seemed to become common, these events capture the headlines because they capture our interests here and now. So it's profitable to consider what they might mean for us and how we might respond. The first thing to consider is that this is actually nothing new. While we're genuinely horrified at the high-profile violence all around us and its impact on our day-to-day lives we've lived through this at other times we do suffer from our own immediacy bias and imagine no one has had to cope with these circumstances like we have. But the truth is there have been other times when violence has been the front page story around the world, at the turn of the 19th to the 20th century, there was a wave of killings targeting mostly high-profiled politicians and leaders. The czar of Russia was killed in a bomb blast, the president of the US was shot to death, which is how his vice president, theodore Roosevelt, became president, an attempt on the life of Queen Victoria was undertaken and the king of Serbia was murdered. It seemed at that time as if the world had come off its hinges. A culture of assassination and murder seemed to spring up, even in the midst of the most settled and developed political cultures of the time, and the impact was tremendous, as governments fell from power, policies were changed and relationships between nations shifted, all as a result of these acts. The events leading to the outbreak of World War I, the most destructive war in history up to that time, was triggered by a political assassination of the heir apparent to the throne of Austria-Hungary in 1914. These were more than the product of avid journalists seeking headlines. They were the causal energies that stirred the monumental earthquake of change that was the 20th century.
Speaker 2:Again in mid-century, the world was shaken by high-profile killings that changed the 20th century. Again in mid-century, the world was shaken by high-profile killings that changed the course of nations. Medgar Evers was murdered for his stand on civil rights. Ngo Dien Nghiem was murdered during a coup against his government in South Vietnam. John Kennedy was shot to death in Dallas. His killer was subsequently killed in cold blood on camera. Malcolm X was shot to death in Dallas. His killer was subsequently killed in cold blood on camera. Malcolm X was shot to death in his own venue. And Martin Luther King and Bobby Kennedy were gunned down through the horror of a shocked nation.
Speaker 2:Added to the convulsions of society going on at the time, these events seemed to cascade into a kind of free-for-all in which the general norms of society had come undone so that anything could happen, at least it felt as if anything bad could happen. No one was safe, it seemed, and nothing could be counted on. Added to the shock of these events and perhaps it's only a general commentary concerning most acts of murder and violence each of the persons who were killed were high-profile characters. They were deeply involved in the working of the politics of the times. Each of their lives made a difference in the course of history. If they had lived, things would almost certainly have been different. Rather than random, senseless killings, which is part of the background noise of our troubled world. The extinguishing of their lives changed the harmony and the orchestration of everything in their society. The tenor of the 60s would have been remarkably changed if their voices had sounded throughout that decade and into the following one. It wasn't so long ago that everything in society was marked by the grim outcome of the deaths of these, the most notable and important. So our age isn't unique in this aspect, unfortunately for us. We've been here before.
Speaker 2:The second thing to notice is encapsulated in one of the images published from the notebook of the Minneapolis school shooter. School shooter In his diary detailing his self-reflections and thoughts, he sketched an image of a person presumably him looking into a mirror and seeing a demon looking back. It is startling, no doubt. I've seen it on a dozen different websites, calling it to our attention and calling attention to the serious nature of what we're dealing with. If this individual was thinking about his life and detailing his thoughts in terms of some diabolical relationship, then something nefarious was truly afoot in his life, or at least it would seem to be so. Most commentators think it was.
Speaker 2:But I wonder, if he had sketched the same picture and the image staring back at him was a Green Bay Packer football player. Would we have made much of that? Of course we wouldn't be looking at it if he hadn't drawn it in his diary, put the book back in the drawer of his desk and then gone on to sell insurance or to fix cars. No one would have cared what he saw in the mirror if given a moment to describe his feelings, and nobody would make much of it. But in his case, because of the content of his actions, we respond differently, and rightly so. Given what he chose to do, any glimmer of evidence that we can read so as to understand what he was thinking becomes a resource for us to discern what he was up to and, if it's possible to make sense of it, perhaps we can understand it a bit more. And if we understand it, perhaps we can do something to help others avoid it or at least become aware of it before it takes such a heavy toll. It's also the case that this image is only one page of the diary. Our complete understanding of it is put in abeyance until we can see something more of what he wrote.
Speaker 2:It reminds me of an example in my logic book from my second semester in college more than 50 years ago. In it. The example was this Imagine an attorney asking a witness in a trial if pornography was found on the end table next to the accused's bed. If the witness answered yes, the attorney then points out that the accused must have a dodgy life or a troubled past that is showing itself in the present. The defending attorney then gets up and asks if a copy of the Bible was on the end table as well, and the same witness answers yes.
Speaker 2:One follow-up question and the iron-clad conclusion so easily arrived at begins to come apart. Whatever the accused is, he's not to be described by one answer to one question. We can't come to a conclusion based on a single image or a single occurrence, and that was the point of the logic book's example, and all the more so. Here we're cautioned. The killer could have been troubled and tortured in his life and conscience, or he could have been scribbling one day, thinking about something he'd seen in a TV or a movie. Just that single image isn't quite enough to conclude what was going on in his mind. It is troubling, certainly, but I don't make it out to be the cornerstone conclusion that this man was uniquely troubled or tormented. Perhaps he was just a man. That would be more troubling for all of us, in his wild awfulness, to be prompted to shoot kids who were praying in church. Maybe he was just a man, I concur.
Speaker 2:Violence and the horror of killing is a demonic attribute. We're not dealing with questions of flesh and blood only, but also of the spirits that occupy our age. Nasty spirits who want destruction and suffering are part of the miasma of our world. Murder and violence certainly are a result of these spirits running our society to ruin as best they can, result of these spirits running our society to ruin as best they can. Imagining they don't exist or are only a part of the outdated and outmoded way of speaking about the world is the narrowest and most obtuse way of analyzing what's going on among us. If we don't account for the spirits at work to torment and attempt, we're ignoring a good chunk of the New Testament as well and a good part of the history of human interaction.
Speaker 2:We do well to affirm that the influence of the demonic is neither old-fashioned nor outdated. Demons certainly are at work in the world and their power to manifest themselves in the decisions and actions of others is real. In fact, they are among us and at work amidst us all the time. It's unfashionable to say that out loud in the comfortable halls of conversation, but it's no more than affirming what the church has taught for generations. We're not simply afoot in the world, passing from one option to another, free agents to actuate whatever we choose of what is in front of us. We are instead in an arena of contestation, always striving to implement our will amidst the powers and energies that make up our world.
Speaker 2:It's hard to convince that the power to kill and destroy isn't one of the powers sloshing around among us. Looking at this culture of assassination in our 20th century is only to prepare ourselves for looking hard at the numbing horror of killing and dying that has defined it in every way. More than a hundred million people were killed in the violence perpetrated in the bloodiest of all centuries up to now, that's the 20th century. They were prompted in the most part about 99% by the twisted logic and evil leadership of generals and prime ministers and party secretaries who promised better lives for their people. If only they would hitch their stars to the power of destruction and the forces of death in the world. These men promised and then delivered the deathly power available to them. It produced horror and suffering so awful we can still hardly read about it, much less open our imaginations to the fact that it was real and touched the lives of billions of people.
Speaker 2:And we don't have to imagine demons or the horned creatures that look back at us in mirrors to describe the power of the demonic at work. Look at the descriptions of those who were possessed by demons and then healed by Jesus' ministry. They were controlled and tormented by invisible powers at work in their lives, unresponsive to the will and intent of the person himself. They were boastful and cowering, destructive and mean to those who were possessed by their power. Looking at so many of the political movements of our age and their results, especially in how much those who espouse the causes of these movements inflict suffering on themselves, as a side note, just take a look at some of the most prominent advocates of them and how they've altered their bodies and presented themselves to the world, often at great personal pain, we can make the case that any description of the demonic is as much at work among them as in any of the tortured individuals Jesus encountered in his ministry. The demonic doesn't only have to be a scare of disembodied voices or ghostly things happening in the dark rhetoric that shouts violence, movements that dehumanize their enemies or themselves, excitement that pushes past any human measure or power unconstrained by justice. All of them can be the comfortable haunt of demons at home in the destruction they love.
Speaker 2:A corollary of this awareness is to appreciate, oddly, our invitation to baptism. Among most people who have some measure of attachment to the faith, they regard baptism of their children as one of the family rituals they get to sometime after their kids are born. It's not exactly dispensable in their mind, but it's not regarded with any notion of immediacy. In our grandparents' day, when infant survival was always in question, the concern was to baptize a child as soon as practical so as to bring this little soul into the embrace of Christ in the church. Now, when there is virtually no worry about the prospect of tomorrow, the hurry to the baptismal font has slackened. It's not thought to be that much of a concern. But if we're aware we live in a world awash with the powers of evil, ready to attach its tentacles to us at any time and from all sides, baptism begins to matter and at once To pour the embrace of Christ over the fragility of an infant makes perfect sense. After all, the purpose of the life of faith is not just in the hereafter but is for the right now and right here as well.
Speaker 2:We can think of evil as the invasive threat of I don't know Johnson grass. It's always there, right across the fence. It'll be among your yard and in your garden unless you actively root it out just because that's what it does. The capacity to invade and spread seems most likely and most purposeful when the environment is most stressed. So awareness has to be heightened when things seem least likely to be a threat. And if we don't take precautions, especially with what ends up in our garden, and we don't cultivate carefully and pull out what doesn't belong there, eventually our gardens will be Johnson grass and nothing else.
Speaker 2:Imagining the threat of evil to be pervasive. Baptism in this environment is simply caring for your child in the most appropriate way. The demonic is present. The promise of Christ overcomes it that we're all susceptible to its power in our lives, and especially when we open ourselves to its attractive power to be at work in our lives. It may seem odd to imagine that such a power would be attractive. What would it have to offer us? And the answer is straightforward Violence and destruction have the power to coalesce and direct.
Speaker 2:Think of the power World War II had on the formation of the contemporary United States. When the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor in 1941, the violence and death resulting there united the nation. Alternative voices were silenced and confusion was subsumed in a sense of national purpose that carried everyone along in cohesion and unity. Those alternate voices weren't silenced, but they were drowned out in louder voices. Other points of view were not extinguished, but they were placed on a framework in which the surging convictions about war and response dominated. Violence brought about purpose. Not only that, it created a new scale of value. Purpose Not only that, it created a new scale of value. In 1945, when B-29s were dropping thousands of tons of incendiary bombs on Tokyo, causing 100,000 deaths in one evening, the 2,300 casualties at Pearl Harbor were invoked to justify the killing.
Speaker 2:Violence does not only cause death and destruction. It captures our eyes and directs our thoughts so that we begin to reason and decide. Uniquely, world War II made the modern United States. It made the world. We know, you know, it's even described in the Bible, in Genesis, as the author describes Cain killing Abel. He describes what happens to him after the murder of his brother. Cain wanders the earth with the mark of killing that presses on him, but he also travels from place to place and is known as the founder of cities. Violence and murder can create social solidarity enough to create the unitive force necessary to keep people together.
Speaker 2:These are the demonic forces that tempt us because, after all, we need social solidarity and common purpose. These powers are waiting in the weeds, always there to attach themselves to us, tempting us by their utility and trapping us by their effects. Above all, we know that they're real. They're not fiction, nor have they grown outdated. The powers of this world are part of this world. They are to be confronted, defeated, superseded and cast out, or we'll find ourselves availing of them to make our way through the world, which is the really horrific part of the news about the recent murders.
Speaker 2:We don't have to imagine demons possessing the mind and will of somebody in order that they be convinced of their need to extinguish the life and thought of another. The power of the demonic is as conformal to human acting as ideas and urges. Grabbing a rifle to aim at my enemy, convinced he deserves to die, is as human as waving flags and as historical as an inauguration. That's what's truly awful about what we're experiencing. We'd like to think it's the provenance of monsters, an eruption of the horrible and the bestial and a product of the horrible circumstances of our time. And it is true, our time and circumstances have produced these hideous news stories, but they're not new.
Speaker 2:The truth is that normal people have the capacity to twist their thinking and pervert their convictions and so produce the violence we now note among us. That is the provenance of the demonic, sure, but it's not limited to the occult or the supernatural. People everywhere have the capacity to be awful and to act in terrible ways. They don't need external promptings or super temptations. That's exactly why we have to keep such close guard on our thoughts and our speech. It's easy to lead an ordinary person in a moment of weakness or in a season of brokenness to do the most awful things. Of course we take note of those who adopt anti-civic sentiments or who express crazy convictions. They're signaling to us the fault lines in society. They're like the natural signs we pay attention to. Some outdoorsmen, for example, tell us that if they notice deer or bear in the woods growing an extra thick coat, they know we're in for an extra cold winter. These small signs signal what's going on in the world, so also those who are the most unbalanced and the most damaged, can signal to us the currents flowing through the ether, but they're simply the avatars, the precursors who are acting out what's taking place.
Speaker 2:Several years ago there was a book published detailing the history of a group of soldiers who were recruited to the German occupation forces in Poland and White Russia during the Second World War. These men were older, they'd been local policemen in their hometowns and they were placed in the occupied territory to handle the local population. At first they were given the job of enforcing order in the conquered lands, making sure the laws and the ordinances of the army were kept. Then they were sent to round up the undesirables the Nazis wanted to control and then eliminate. This quickly turned into executing these people, often in large numbers at a time. Eventually it got to where they expected. They expected, day by day, to be called on to round up the members of a village, take them to the outskirts of their towns and then shoot them by the hundreds. These were ordinary men, not hardened, brainwashed Nazi youth. They had families and connections to home. Often they were serving with men from their own hometowns, men they had known throughout their lives and careers. Many of them had sons in the regular armed forces. Yet in a matter of a few months they turned into murderers who carried out the expected liquidation of the enemies of the state with hardly a question or a concern. They were just ordinary men.
Speaker 2:We have to be concerned at this juncture in our history as we hear the stories of these killings, that they are like the light we see around the doorframe that heralds a new day. We especially have to be attentive to the fact that we can't just point to demons in the mirror or comment on the new fascination with the dark arts. We have to know this is the fraying of the fabric of life. These crimes may be the product of troubled men and tortured minds, but they herald the crumbling away of what allows our society to function. And once the foundations begin to crack and wear, whatever is built on it will pitch and gap and fall.
Speaker 2:This news is even more disturbing than we know. They call out to us to examine where we are and what's going on among us. We may feel secure in our own environment and sure of our relationships and certain in our principles. We take appropriate precautions at what may happen so as to be protected from the extremes of life and the violence there. But we have to do more. First, because we're a people of faith who are called to be witnesses of Christ to the world that we occupy. In a place where the demonic rises among us, we have to invoke the promise of Christ to cast it out with love and forgiveness. And second, because there is no way to begin to address the tortured decisions of others without addressing what might be twisted and dark within ourselves. We are in this world. If the currents are stirring, they're washing our feet as well.
Speaker 2:The plague of violence is so awful precisely because it touches all of us and every part of us. The answer is what it always is the examination of our consciences, the acceptance of our faults, our sincere repentance and then our search for remedies. And all of this lies only in our hands and has to come from our hearts. The news is bad, but it is always the beginning of what can become good, for there's nothing that lies outside of the work of God, ready to come into the world, and to come into the world by what we choose, by how we act and where we cast our lives. This is our work. Back in just a moment. Welcome back to our final segment, faith.
Speaker 2:In Verse, we have a poem today called Guadalupe. The famous mantle hangs above the sainted altar. This image, silent and warm the eyes never falter. Her image assures those of us who come that we're welcome, expected as one. Our troubles, our tears, our moments and days are the gifts of her countenance, her ways here.
Speaker 2:She is the window to the divine, to see the works of God and him enshrined In the common places of our lives. We ask to know the beauty all others know and grasp. Her body bore Christ to the world and thus she becomes the mother of all of us and we kneel before the image of her joy. She is our great doorway. Ayer y hoy, that's Guadalupe. Our work always is to be present to and be responsive to the work of God in the world. That means that we cast our minds, our hearts and our souls into the hands of God to know his will and to do it, and our souls into the hands of God to know his will and to do it, which is, after all, the passport to happiness and the pathway to heaven. I hope that in the weeks to come that all of us can be together as we continue to explore what it means to be Living Catholic.
Speaker 1:Living Catholic is a production of the Archdiocese of Oklahoma City for Oklahoma Catholic Radio. To learn more, visit okcrorg.