Dance Buzz
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Dance Buzz
Episode 5: Steering Through Student Departures: A Primer for Dance Studio Owners
What if you had a toolkit to navigate the emotional tumult of student departures in your dance studio? Anxiety, stress, self-doubt - these are feelings we've all grappled with whenever a student has decided to leave. It's Jonathan and Chelsea Godfrey here, and we're addressing this very issue head-on in the latest episode of Dance Buzz.
We've been there, navigated through it, and now we're sharing the insights we've acquired along the way. Our conversation covers everything from maintaining impeccable communication with both students and parents, making necessary adjustments to your programs, to the criticality of professional behavior during such transitions. We also delve into the sometimes tricky dynamics of parental involvement and how to better focus your energy on the dancers who've chosen to stay.
Beyond the emotional aspect, we explore prudential topics like streamlining your registration and audition process and managing the financial implications of student departures. We discuss ways to inspire struggling students, reiterating that a few departures are not indicative of failure. So, tune in as we demystify the challenges and opportunities that come with student departures in dance studios. It's real, raw, and packed with actionable advice - just what you need to stay in-step and thrive.
Hi everyone, welcome back. I'm Chelsea Godfrey.
Speaker 2:I'm Jonathan Godfrey.
Speaker 1:And on today's episode of Dance Buzz, we are going to be talking about coping with the thoughts and emotions of having a student leave your studio and your environment and just having an open conversation about what that looks like, what that feels like. You know, these are our personal perspectives and our personal experiences And, of course, every teacher is going to feel something different.
Speaker 2:This happens a lot this time of the year.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is definitely something we wanted to talk about now because, you know, nationals is over, recital time is over. Either auditions have ended, people have gotten their forms or they're just beginning, and this is where we really see a big shift in who's returning to programs, who's not returning, and sometimes that can be really difficult.
Speaker 2:Yeah, i mean even just forgetting about the personal relationships and professional relationships with both these families. This is a tough time for studio owners. They're trying to figure out, like you said, who's coming back, trying to plan for the year ahead. Can I afford these teachers? can I afford to pay myself some studio owners? So that kind of all plays into, i think, the emotions as well that go into this situation here.
Speaker 1:And before even really diving deep into the process of it. I think you know, i know for myself personally this time of the year has always been very emotional for me. Every year I say to myself who's coming back, who's not coming back? are we going to make it through another year? How are we going to make it through the summer? And you know thankfully you know now we're in a different place in the sense of other opportunities and businesses that have flourished for us. So it has alleviated some stress, however, that I remember those emotions vividly And even towards the end of August, i remember being in full, like looking at you and being like are we going to make it?
Speaker 2:I think for you it started in May. Usually May comes around and Chelsea's like oh my god, who's coming back, who's not coming back? Can we afford this, can we do this? And then, yeah, by well, end of August, yeah, end of August. You know, chelsea starts to hit that peak of nervousness.
Speaker 1:Well, yes, and I think you know and we'll talk about this as we, you know progress through this conversation today. But I think what I have learned is I have almost tried to make like this process be a little less anxiety driven for me by kind of trying to change it around a little bit, and I think that has helped tremendously for my anxiety and my stress. And I will also be very candid and I will talk about that process and just be really transparent in what I did. You know, because at the end of the day, ultimately you can't control if people come back or they don't come back. But I think just the way I was able to adjust the registration process for this season, for whatever reason, made me feel so much more comfortable. But we'll talk about that a little bit later in the conversation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so the first point that I want to talk about when you lose a or when a student leaves, is the grieving of realizing that they are not going to return to your studio. I think you run through a lot of thoughts and emotions And my first thought always is I blame myself for sure. I question my abilities as a teacher, i question our program. You know our experience, i think, with students coming and going has been very different than, i'm thinking, a lot of other studios. But I feel very strongly about the training program and the competition program that we offer And I stand behind that 100%. So that is like one of the biggest things I think that has helped me through this grieving process is in that. So once I've gotten almost like past the self blame, i then go into self reflection and I say to myself, okay, why, what are the reasons that this person gave us for why they are leaving? and then start at that point.
Speaker 2:Yeah, i mean going back just a smidge. You had talked about what can I do better in the program. Is this program not? you know what that dancer is looking for, and I think I mean we have very different personalities in this way. But I, you know, i do go through it as well, where I'm thinking what could we have done to do better for that student? I think, as every business owner should, i mean you should always be reflecting on your business and thinking about how you can provide your customers. Obviously, you know with the best experience and the best opportunities. So that's the first thing that runs through my head.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think too, it's like immediately, when someone says we're in lobby, returning, it's kind of like a how could they do this to me? Like it becomes like a like you get very defensive. I think, well, not, you just like in general, in general, get very defensive How could they do this to me? How dare they? I can't believe it. And then it goes into the, the stress, anxiety, emotions being upset and all those things that. That all happen honestly within like a week time span, like it's like, or maybe even hours, honestly, yeah.
Speaker 2:I think the first couple hours are really stressful for a lot of people. Just basing it off of you know how you cope and everything. The first couple hours are definitely going to be hard.
Speaker 1:And I'm lucky because I have John, my partner, who is my life partner and my business partner. but I have you to talk to about it and talk through it with, but if I didn't have someone to help me in that process, i think it would be like a nightmare for me, honestly.
Speaker 2:And I think, having if we didn't have each other. This is where studio owners can find comfort in other studio owners Yes, having other friends, and that's why it's important to not have animosity.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but do business like incorrectly, you know. I mean, i know I feel like this isn't as popular anymore, but I remember when we first opened, everybody was like people are stealing kids, people are stealing my kids. And I'm like are they, or is that student? you know, because students will venture and take classes elsewhere And we've talked about this and explore other opportunities And there's nothing wrong with that, and we talked about that in summer intensives. but you know, i'm not stealing your dancer. Your dancer is exploring other options. With that being said, though it's, we have a lot of studio owner friends. We've made a lot of friends over the years. studios close, studios far, and it's good to talk to other people sometimes and get fresh. you know opinions because we're inside the studio with these kids. you know we're seeing it a little bit different. We're knowing the families, where people who are not part of your studio can give a fresh perspective on the situation.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and I think with when we go into self-blame and even sometimes self-reflection not as much I think of blame We immediately think to ourselves okay, well, what can I do to keep them? And I think by having this thought process it's almost toxic to your mental health.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sometimes it's better just not have them. Sometimes it's better just if a student, if a student leaves and a family leaves, sometimes better. Just like you know, we're sorry to see you go. I wish you all the best And there's nothing wrong with taking that step.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I think you know self-blame like and self-reflection. They go very hand in hand because you know to have self-flection you probably are, you know blaming yourself for something. But aside from that kind of going back to okay, what can I change about my program or what can I do to keep them, now I want you to think about it like this Don't think about this one particular student and what you can do to keep that student, because in their mind they're already gone. So let them go. And instead of saying what can I do to keep them, tell yourself, okay, is there are other kinds of programs that I could develop that maybe I'm missing out on that, maybe that you wouldn't create necessarily for that child, but that you're like, wait, i understand why this person's leaving. What can I offer that maybe other people feel like they're missing out on? And then add it if you feel like it, if it's necessary, right.
Speaker 2:If it fits your studio.
Speaker 1:Exactly Like. I don't feel like you should be like. Well, in order to get this person to stay, I'm gonna do all of these things and entice them to stay, because they're already one foot out, which means that even if they do stay, it's going to be miserable for you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, i mean, for example, if you're a ballet studio, you know you're focused on ballet and you have a dancer who's like I'm gonna leave to focus more on hip hop per se Or commercial, or commercial sure, jazz, funk, yeah, taking those routes, it's probably not in the studio's best interest to try and launch a whole hip hop program because one student left. Your core premise is focused on classic, you know classical technique, ballet, to where, if you were to launch hip hop and commercial jazz and a whole program development doesn't mean you can't offer it. But it's probably not in your best interest to try and launch a whole program on something that, honestly, you're probably not that educated in.
Speaker 1:And but I also think as well, just kind of going off of that, i think that it's great that people are seeing that. Okay, i want people to offer my students as much as I possibly can. That's great. Have your niche be your niche, excel at your niche and offer other additional opportunities.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:And the kids that are attracted to your niche will be your target audience, right? Like it's not gonna be everybody's cup of tea, like I know, what we offer may not be everybody's cup of tea.
Speaker 2:Absolutely yeah. Everybody's looking for something different And I just wanna flip it real quick to the parents perspective that you know, something I wish parents would do, or just general customers, even from our other businesses, is talk to your studio owner first you know, communicate, yeah.
Speaker 2:Communication. I mean, if you have a question, open up that dialogue. You know we're looking at other opportunities. Okay, let me help you in this manner. But if you're just like no, and it kind of becomes, i guess, a little to where it's like your studio doesn't offer this, so we're leaving, and it's just not necessary. You know, if I'm not happy with a business that I'm attending, i just don't go back. But you open up that communication and you have that conversation.
Speaker 1:if you have that relationship, Yeah, definitely, I think, early dialogue and early communication because I think it allows opportunity for studios to well one, I think, emotionally and mentally prepared. To be honest, selfishly In my perspective, I'm like, okay, well, I, I mean, I'm full transparency. When a student is gonna leave, most of the time we already know that they're gonna leave.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's typically. a There's signs Tension that builds prior.
Speaker 1:There's signs there's, kids talk about it. We hear everything. So most of the time we already know. Sorry, i kind of tangented off for a moment there, but I think I agree, john. I think if parents were more open in having that conversation with studio owners, maybe like if our, if someone wanted more commercial work or more acro work, let's say, and like I know, acro, for example, is something that we do not offer, correct, and we would immediately I have people that I would recommend to take additional acro. Would somebody leave our program because of the lack of acro? Probably not.
Speaker 2:Unless they came in with an acrophocus and kind of just joined the wrong program.
Speaker 1:Right, exactly So I think it's just sometimes parents don't know direction And, honestly, sometimes they don't realize the direction until their child's a little bit older.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and that's something that comes down to parent self-reflection, student and parent self-reflection, where you have to evaluate what you're looking for out of a program And, like you said, that could change. Yes, that could very easily change. Honestly it probably will It most likely will absolutely.
Speaker 1:And that's sometimes where it gets really hard, because you have a child when they're three years old and now they're 13 and they're like this isn't working for me anymore And they move to a different space that they feel like caters to what they need more, because they feel like they have a lot of times people say what's the word that people say tapped out or Oh reached a ceiling kind of.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they have they're no longer growing. They've hit a plateau, plateau, thank you the plateau.
Speaker 1:They've hit a plateau and they're not seeing any more growth patterns And that's why a lot of students move And that's why it's really important. back to the self-reflection where studio owners we are very, very, i would say. like we never have the same schedule. Since we have opened, we have offered different classes.
Speaker 2:Oh, you mean year to year. Yeah, we change our schedule each year.
Speaker 1:Always change our schedule and adjusted based on the way that the industry and the community is adjusting, and I think that's so important, it keeps it super exciting. It kind of gets them out of that routine of doing the same thing over and over again. I mean we have your like you have to have, we have ballet. I mean that's.
Speaker 2:We're just gonna offer ballet every year.
Speaker 1:Ballet and technique is like two of the top things that we have every year no matter what, but we change the times of them, like we change how long they are Sometimes we get longer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we change the times of classes, we change the types of classes, we change the choreographers.
Speaker 1:You know it's important to, Or the educators, yeah, Yeah that as well, but I'm talking about choreography as well. Oh yes, i'm sorry.
Speaker 2:We change the educators for the classes, we change the choreographers for the routines, and I think it's important to not fall into such a heavy routine year after year, because you become comfortable.
Speaker 1:Well, I think that's how people get bored, That's why people start to look off. So if there's one piece of advice that I could kind of start you with, it would be to just reflect on your own personal program. Not you know, maybe the student leaving like allows you to think about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it doesn't have to be self-reflection in such a negative manner. You don't have to sit there and be so you know what? could I have done this better? What can I do this with? The general thought, at least for me, is what can I do to make the studio or the business better as a whole, Not specific for student A or student B, but as a whole?
Speaker 1:in my particular vision, Yes, because eventually that student will leave or they will graduate and they will not be there anymore and you will still be left with your space. So make your space your space for you, not for somebody else.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:So I think, just moving forward, i think we kind of talked about this very, very little bit.
Speaker 1:But it is okay to be mad and to be angry and to be frustrated and to honestly just be pissed off, like whether you wanna be angry at that person or just at the situation And like I think a lot of times, john, you had mentioned, like some, a lot of parents say when they say they're leaving, that we're not leaving because your studio and your studio is your baby, right. So you are on defense mode, like how dare someone talk about my studio, my baby, like that. The same way that if you, if you're giving feedback regarding their child's progress and it's maybe not positive feedback, not, i mean, all parents are different, but nobody likes to hear that about their children. Nobody wants to hear that their children, child, is not doing well at something or is falling behind or whatever it may be that maybe has like this negative demeanor. So of course it's like immediate, it's like defense And it's kind of like, especially if you've had someone for so long, it's like, well, really, my programs worked for you the last 10 years.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I think the parents should look at their child with open mindsets and pseudo owners. I want you to make note of this that when you're working with certain dancers, take a look at what how do I word this That look at the parents that are more open about a conversation about their own dancer and see the growth patterns of that dancer, Cause I find that some of the strongest dancers we have, the parents are more open to feedback about their own dancer, which I think in turn leads the dancer to be more open to feedback from them, because the parent and dancer has had that communication.
Speaker 2:Yes, I mean our Sorry, i know, i worded that not great, yeah, no.
Speaker 1:I think that I think you were to define, i think from our experience, right Again, this is all personal experience The parents who have been the quietest, or our students are always the most successful. They're always the best to coach, there are most coachable students And, at the end of the day, that's really what we want. We want someone who's coachable, who's employable.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you want somebody coachable, because I don't want to work with a dancer that I'm like. all right, chelsea, we need to work on turnout by doing this And the dancer's like no.
Speaker 1:Or you almost feel like when you're coaching them you almost have to tiptoe because if you say something wrong or you do something wrong, it could cause an uproar or whatever it is Not fun And nobody likes to feel like they have to tiptoe around any kind of situation.
Speaker 1:They just want to be themselves, and I want to be able to coach every kid the same. So you know, and I think, ultimately, it's okay to be angry and it's okay to be frustrated. I think parents, if you're listening to this as well, know that our studios are our babies and we're going to protect them and defend them as well. However, studio owners, i will say do your best to be as professional, as low-key and as little response as you possibly can, because remember, at the end of the day, no matter what, you are the professional, you are the studio owner.
Speaker 2:And I think this is where your 24-hour rule comes into play.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 2:You know you get an email and it's honestly, the email you receive is, i'm gonna say, most of the time not even a bad email, just saying you know. Hello, thank you so much for providing such great opportunities for my dancer, but at the end of the day, we have decided to change directions for this year.
Speaker 1:Typically, that's how, some way of the email goes Yeah, we haven't me and you have not personally experienced someone kind of like really demeaning our program.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So we don't.
Speaker 2:Yeah, maybe we have a skewed perspective. I'm sure other people have had it. But, speaking from other studio owners as well, i feel like most of the emails they receive are you know, we have decided just to go in a different direction this year. You know, and maybe you wanna type out an email. Don't put it in the same body. The email with you know things you wish you could say sometimes Yes.
Speaker 1:I do this And then delete it, and then delete it.
Speaker 2:And send a professional email. There is no need to go back and forth with this tit for tat and you know, just unprofessional, whatever, just say thank you so much. you know we wish your dancer all the best. You know, and I've had when parents come into the studio like well, the student owner sent me such a short email And I'm like and I understand it from the student owners perspective, because you know you're upset, you're angry, but you're being professional.
Speaker 1:I also. Sorry, i'm gonna cut you off but I also have to say from the studio owner perspective you're already leaving, So no offense, I'm not gonna go waste my time and draw out like a five paragraph message about how much I love you and your child and that you should stay, when you're already like sorry, I'm leaving.
Speaker 2:And I think that's what parents want. I think parents want this long, you know, begging you to stay It is oh my God, of course.
Speaker 1:Who doesn't wanna be begged to stay, who doesn't wanna feel wanted? But you're not gonna, you know you're not gonna get that.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna say At least not from us.
Speaker 1:Definitely not from us. If someone wants to leave, my response is gonna be we wish you all the best. And then John and I have personal conversations and private conversations where we again go back to self reflection and go from there.
Speaker 2:And I do, we do. We do wish those families and those students all the best. Oh, absolutely Just because you're leaving doesn't mean the email that we're sending you, although it is short and brief and to the point, is. Not sentimental, or Yeah, we're like two-sided, where we're like saying one thing and meaning another. I always wish your dancers all the best. We've had dancers that have left and have been so successful. It's great for them.
Speaker 1:It's great for them And I think also I rest a little knowing that we played a role in that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you give them, you know, some of those fundamentals and some of those growth patterns. They didn't just appear out of nowhere to become as successful as they are. Somebody helped them and we're part of that.
Speaker 1:So, ultimately, wait process, respond professionally And like again our emails you know they may be short and I don't wanna say that like again, like we don't care about your child, but emotionally and mentally for me this is what I have to say And I have to be at peace with that. And I agree wholeheartedly, john, that we really do wish every child the best in all their success and whatever they accomplish, and it always is sad to see someone move on.
Speaker 2:And I think the parents leaving can understand that when you take a moment and process it because you're going to a new studio, most likely. So when you leave one and you go to another, you don't want that new studio you're going to. The studio owner should just be spending so much time and energy on the students already left. You're coming in. You want that focus now redirected to you, so I think it's unfair to then expect your previous studio to spend so much time and energy begging you to come back when, like you said, we have other students and other clients that we need to now redirect our focus to, on making them the best that they can be.
Speaker 1:Yes, this was going to be one of my biggest pieces of advice towards, like, the end of the segment, but since we're here, what helped me get through a really hard time? when someone had left the studio mid season which was like the only time that that has ever happened to us I had to tell myself like cause I was actually really emotionally drained. I was shocked I had given a lot of time and effort and energy to a student. I felt like I had built them up and got them to this point. They got, I guess, what they needed out of us and they were ready to whatever. And I literally was in class. I remember this very vividly.
Speaker 1:I was teaching a class and I was so moosh and moosh.
Speaker 1:I was very like just down in the dumps And I looked at the kids that were there that were giving me 400% and I said you know what These kids are here. I need to stop thinking about this. One student who told me pretty much made me feel like I wasn't good enough anymore And I need to focus all of my positive attention and give it to these kids and they'll come out on top because I'm giving them my 400% and I'm not taking all this energy and just being sad about it, Like be sad, Like we always expect our students to leave and focus the extra stuff at the door. And I struggled at that particular time with being able to do that And it wasn't until I took a moment, I took a breath, I looked at the kids and I came back And from that moment on I have always told myself that that I just need to look at who's here and be grateful that these kids see something in me the way that I see something in them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 100%.
Speaker 1:So I think, moving forward, you know talking about a different kind of perspective that you can give. you know, i think me and you, john, have talked about. you know, if a student is already one foot out the door, me and you are okay with being like okay, let's go our own ways, this is what we're gonna do. However, there are other situations where maybe a dialogue was opened earlier or further communication needs to be happened And I think we need to assess okay, well, should I call a meeting with this family and this dancer?
Speaker 2:My answer most of the time is no, Most of the time. I mean, the dancer already has a foot out the door, the family has made a decision already, And I think it just kind of sometimes doesn't always time look desperate, almost It's like no, I want you, I want you to stay like, please don't leave me.
Speaker 2:Every situation is different. Absolutely every situation is different, but most of the time, like you said earlier, you know studio owners kind of already have a sense as to what's happening. You know there's been chatter. You see some distance happen between the family and the student and other families and things like that. There's kind of a buildup and a lead up to it.
Speaker 1:People. Sorry, i didn't mean to cut you off, john, but I think that why I think a lot of people go towards meetings and this is something that I feel sometimes when I actually call someone if there's like something going on or some kind of like bad juju or vibes, that's kind of off is people hide behind their emails 100%.
Speaker 1:People hide behind their text messages. You know, i mean when you know, when you hear dancers are tech. You know when dancers text each other like if they're getting an argument, it's the same thing. Like what happens when you're 13 years old is the same thing that happens when you're 40 years old. It's like it doesn't stop.
Speaker 2:You revert back.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So people hide right behind those emails and they talk trash or whatever. They say their stuff And that's why you know we have to be able to just respond professionally. But aside from all of that, they hide behind their emails And that's really frustrating for me sometimes because I'm like like pick up the phone, like sometimes I'm like if there's a really major issue, pick up the phone and call me. That's how I feel. I know you feel a little bit differently, but I think every situation is a little different.
Speaker 2:I think that by the end if a phone call is needed, then I'll pick up the phone, but I do prefer email in the beginning.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I get that.
Speaker 2:I like things in writing. I think it's really important for everybody's safety, not just ours as studio owners but family safety as well, if something ever does become bigger of it that things are in writing. You know things can be easily changed, i guess wording when you're on the phone or meeting in person And you know well you said this and like we didn't say this or vice versa. You know, i think just email is just more.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's the same way with kids to kids. Yeah, concrete.
Speaker 2:And you know I mean I think we talked about this the first episode I'm just more of a very black and white person, yeah, and it's like this is what's said and this is what's not said, and that's where I prefer email. I'm also not a very talkative person, i guess. So when I pick up the phone, i was like how's your day? And go into this whole like kind of chit chat thing that people feel obligated to do, i'm like no, i pick up the phone and I'm like this is what we're talking about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I don't like to, you know, do this chit chat and warm up to the conversation, you know, and I think sometimes I'll call people and it has nothing to do anything bad. I'm just. I have a question that I need an immediate answer to And like, oh my God, what did I do wrong?
Speaker 1:Well, honestly, I prefer a lot of times when you call, because you are like that And I know I struggle in that. Like I know, I, when I'm talking to people on the phone, I do the whole warming up thing And sometimes it takes like 10 minutes And then by the end of the conversation it just the conversation keeps circling And then we got off topic and then I'm on the phone for an hour and a half And I'm like, oh my God, we're a year on the phone for 20 minutes and you get the same exact information. So that's sometimes why I prefer John to answer the phone over me. But again, it depends on the situation.
Speaker 2:For sure, everybody's different, everybody's different, every situation's different. So you do have to take each individual situation as just that individual situation. You can approach every situation the same, and I understand that. I do understand that it's just. I prefer every situation be handled the same, but I understand that every situation cannot be the same.
Speaker 1:I think too. Going back to when people want to leave, this is something that's really frustrating and for the parents out there, when people are wanting to leave for whatever reason, i feel like a lot of times again, this doesn't happen to us, but just through conversation people want so badly to have a sit-down meeting with the studio owner to tell them that they're leaving And honestly, guys, it's a waste of time. Don't waste your studio owner's time. You're already gonna upset them.
Speaker 1:I don't know if that's really harsh, if that's really blunt, if you're like my child, if you feel like I feel like those kind of situations are because they make you feel better as a parent and as a dancer, i don't think you actually, oh God, that sounds really terrible, but I really honestly don't feel like always that studio owner's feelings are being cared to at all. I think it just makes them feel better about just being like okay, well, now I'm gonna leave and you've done all of this and we're so grateful for you and we're so thankful for you. I'm so sorry, but everything before the word. But erase that, because now none of it matters, because you're about to say but this is no longer where we wanna be. Save yourself time.
Speaker 1:Allow your studio owner to process the information privately in their own home, in their own time, yeah, And just send them an email and if they wanna have a further meeting with you, allow them to, or give them the opportunity to say that they want to, if they feel like they need that further for themselves and if you're willing to do that. But I find that a lot of times parents they say they're sorry but being sorry just makes them feel better. It does not make us feel better at all.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like Chelsea's saying a lot of times, what people are saying are definitely to make themselves feel better, but what I will say is there are valid reasons for students moving on to different programs.
Speaker 1:There's valid reasons There are. we have had both.
Speaker 2:We've had both 100%, so sometimes they are genuinely thankful, but you have to know the individual family, some family. this is all about just different perspectives and things like that.
Speaker 1:Well, that's why I started the segment saying this is just our perspective, our perspective, our personal take yeah.
Speaker 2:So every situation is gonna be handled differently. Some people will thank you genuinely, but I feel like when that happens, you have that relationship to move that forward.
Speaker 1:So You know, i think, yeah, yeah, i hear you, John. I think at a certain point it's just time to just cut ties and accept.
Speaker 2:And move on.
Speaker 1:And move on And remember that all that anger and all that frustration, it takes so much more to hold it than just to let it go.
Speaker 2:It's so much easier to say it than execute it.
Speaker 1:but It takes time.
Speaker 2:It does take time, but it all depends on each individual studio owner's personality.
Speaker 1:Yes, and I think too, like we have had students that left and were like oh, thank God.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, sometimes it's better when a student leaves, you know the student's causing issues or that student just isn't fitting in your program.
Speaker 1:well, And you hear. You know what I'm not, you know. This is where I'm just gonna be candid, like when I hear, when students leave, that the grass may not have been as green as they thought it was gonna be. On the other side, i mean it doesn't feel awful. It doesn't feel awful. I mean you're not like celebrating the fact, like I'm not like celebrating that fact, but it doesn't feel awful. I'll say it like that, like, as you know, it kind of almost like makes your ego floof a little bit, because you're like okay, well, i was doing something right and they were wrong.
Speaker 2:Well, it makes you feel good about what you're offering, yes, but I feel like that 90% of the time can be avoided and averted by simply going back having a conversation before you make the decision to leave. You know my dancer, sally, is looking to do this. Can you help in, maybe, the process? And I'm not saying it's gonna hurt any less that you're losing a student, but at least you feel like you could help guide them in the best direction.
Speaker 1:Well, because I think with losing a student, it's not only losing a student, it's also the conversation that you have lost a student, especially if it's one of your best students.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:It's that trickling through And thinking okay, well, if Sally is the best dancer at the studio or classified, whatever, a lot of people look up towards Sally, Sure, And Sally leaves, everyone's like. You as a studio owner are like well, how do I know that other people aren't gonna leave? because Sally is the best and what people do, what Sally does. And now Sally is gonna start this trend and all these people are gonna leave And that's possible.
Speaker 2:That's possible, but it's, yeah, it's possible. It is possible, parents just need to be very realistic about their own child's talent.
Speaker 1:Yes, well, i think that's really challenging, and I think that's one of the biggest challenges is that we, as studio owners, want to say this might be of good for Sally, but this isn't good for George, correct?
Speaker 2:And that's when groups of kids leave and go to a different place. Sometimes that place is great for that group, but sometimes it's only good for an individual, And I think that parents need to realize that that Sally is not the same as Susie.
Speaker 2:You know, brian's not the same as George, whatever. So I think it's just being realistic, being very realistic, and it's something that we preach to our students all the time. You know, it's something that we try and do on our own as well as look at things objectively and realistically and say is this best for me, is this best for you, is this best for the studio, is this best for whatever? And I just wish that parents would do that themselves a little bit more.
Speaker 1:Although I will say that being on the side of that gets the students is fantastic.
Speaker 2:Well, of course, if you're a studio owner and you have a group of five, six more kids come in. Yeah, you're gonna be a static.
Speaker 1:You're gonna be a static. I think it puts a lot of pressure, though, like I know for me, when I have a group of kids that comes over, i'm like, oh boy, and it's not well. first of all, i always hold myself to a high standard, no matter what I've been. I've done that literally, i think, forever Well, probably not since I was born, but forever. Once I got into high school, like my expectations that I had of myself way surpassed any expectations that anybody could have of me. So it was almost like. it's almost like when we get new students in, especially like if, like, let's say, 10 people come over, i'm like, okay, i have to. like that has to be worth it for these 10 people. And you know what We always find the results. The results always show.
Speaker 2:Results speak for themselves at the end of the day, but when you have a group of kids that come over, i think as studio owners we have to really work on all studio owners keeping them looked at as individual kids.
Speaker 2:Period yes, You know, like you have a group of five, six kids, all five. Six of those don't need a solo, They don't need to be in the same group dances, You know, and they come in and be like well, I want to be in a group with Sally, but you're not at the same level as Sally. So although you were in the same group at your previous studio, it doesn't mean you're going to be in the same group where we are.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. You know, I think honestly, John, we could probably go on.
Speaker 2:That could be a whole segment by itself.
Speaker 1:A whole segment by itself, but I will say that I do feel for the studios and, honestly, a lot of times I will say that when kids leave, people follow their friends. So we've had kids not choose to come because their friends won't come, or the other way around They come because their friends are coming. Because their friends are coming And you know you want kids to come because they feel your program is the right fit for them.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. That's something I do tell parents, so I'll be on the phone. I do get on the phone a lot as new families come in. There's a lot of steps and our programs run very differently than I feel like a lot of other programs, so there's a lot of walking through and getting the families acclimated. So in the beginning I'm definitely going to be on the phone a lot more than later on And I'll tell people. My dancers are on the fence because they really want this dancer to come with them And I say at the end of the day, is this program right for you?
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:You is a singular whatever. It's not a group. You're looking at what's best for your dance or your family, and what's right for your best friend does not mean it's right for you. So I hope that, as our child comes into the world later, that we can take that and be like we're going to do what's best for us and not worry about anybody else.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I think that's easier said than done, even probably for myself, to be honest, but I think that's the right decision for everything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, i think, with cutting ties and letting everything go, this is a very popular thing that people talk about is a lot of times, people want their scholarships And this is a hot topic in the studio owner world.
Speaker 2:Do you release scholarships? Do you keep them?
Speaker 1:Do you release the scholarship or do you keep them? Now everyone's perspective is going to be different because I understand as a studio owner, you're saying to yourself that child was successful and received that because of our training at my studio And if they're going to go somewhere they should be doing under my studio And otherwise they can get it again at Sally May's studio or whatever. I get that. I understand that. I don't agree with it, but I understand where you would think that plays a role.
Speaker 2:It's a reasonable and logic thought. It's not unreasonable, it's not unlogical, it's reasonable and logical. But I just want to offer a different perspective on it. It's just, if you refuse to release the scholarship to that dancer and they are still taking their convention scholarship under you, do you really think they're saying nice things about your studio? No, yeah, do you really think they're going there and be like, well, i'm under our studio, studio X, and well, do you like Studio X? I hate Studio X. They won't release my scholarship. I don't even go there anymore. It just doesn't make sense. So, at the end of the day, the best decision you can make release the scholarship.
Speaker 1:I agree, let it go, yeah, let it go, let it go.
Speaker 2:And something I say all the time is most of the problems that you have with the family it's not with the kid, yes, it's not. Most of the problems caused in a studio and I think all studio owners can agree with me on this is it's not the child. It's a lot of times it's the parents. I'm sorry, it's the mother. The fathers don't get involved that often. No, yeah, some do. We have some great dance dads.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:We have great dance moms as well, yeah, but a lot of the times all the issues are caused from the parents. So I always look at it as why am I going to remove that opportunity from the child when the child's fine?
Speaker 1:Well, i think it's kind of like. I think, because people are like, well, they can pay for it, like I think you know what I mean Like I do think it gets kind of ugly And you know what, guys just let it go, just let it go, give them the scholarship. It's like, honestly this is kind of tangiting a little bit, but it's like sometimes, when people like cause a stink, like about something, i'm like, just take it, i don't care, it's not worth the $100. Like you know what I mean. Like it's not worth it here. Take $100, i'll pay you $100, leave. You know what I'm saying. That's honestly. I mean. I know I am joking, but at the same time I'm kind of like not like we just have to learn to just.
Speaker 2:Well, some things are not worth getting into over.
Speaker 1:No, yeah.
Speaker 2:Some things are better. just left to be like yep, okay, even if you have a personal disagreements with it. you know sometimes it's just not worth the argument, it's not worth the time of the argument. Just be like you know what, okay.
Speaker 1:And I promise you too you know, i think we're ready to close the segment And I promise you and this is something again, like I said earlier, about focusing your energy on the students that are there but I promise you that whatever student leaves, they do not make your studio. You make your studio.
Speaker 2:A single student does not make or break a studio.
Speaker 1:Yes, them not being in a dance is not gonna make you lose, it's not gonna make you win, i promise you. And that was something else, like earlier on, when we first started owning our business and we had, you know, a student that was exceptional, left, i was like, oh my God, all the dances that they're in like they're not gonna be the same. But guess what? We were just as successful, if not even more successful, in the future, in the following years.
Speaker 2:You refocus that energy And you know, before we close out because I feel like we actually didn't touch on this and maybe we will on a different subject is kind of controlling the situation inside the studio. Like either the following season or the next week when a student leaves, and I don't think it's healthy to be like, no, we're not allowed to talk to that student That makes, or we're not allowed to talk about that student. Like if Sally leaves, we come into rehearsal next week and everybody's like, oh, did you? well, why are you gonna be like no, we're not gonna talk about this, just no, all right, guys, let's focus on this dance.
Speaker 1:You know what It's happening, it's happened And like sometimes being able to talk about it, like you know, allows the opportunity to just like have the dialogue, and then you know people aren't whispering.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think it happens, more so when a student leaves in the middle of the year versus.
Speaker 1:Oh yes.
Speaker 2:At the end of the year. You know, at the end of the year they leave after nationals. You guys have a whole summer, da-da-da-da, and it moves on. But when something happens in the middle of the year, sometimes you need to approach that situation and handle it, And I think that's something we've learned as studio owners of the years. If something happens, we need to handle that right now. Oh yeah for the year There's no waiting on it Like take care of that situation because it will run out of hand.
Speaker 2:We've learned that the hard way, but studio owners, do not try and like block out the conversation or like just like, what's the word Kind?
Speaker 1:of like I feel like don't be like it's that name is Voldemort. Yeah, like you can't say it. You can't say Voldemort. It's like kind of like, alright, like, so why are you giving so much attention to that person?
Speaker 2:We have to be adults, we're adults talking to children And I think that's hard to realize sometimes. But we have to realize that we're adults, We have more knowledge and we're supposed to be more responsible and adulty.
Speaker 1:Adulty, yeah, adulty, what an adult word Then these kids Adulty, adulty. But you know, there was something that I wanted to say that at the earlier part of the episode that I didn't talk about really quick and I just want to touch on it is how I was able to kind of get through the summer without feeling so much stress and anxiety, and we're definitely going to revamp a little bit of this. Again. I always change what we do, but studio owners out there, maybe this will give you some perspective as to what we do. So the last two years, ever since COVID so three years, i believe, actually two years, i don't know We haven't had a audition process. No, the past two years, two years.
Speaker 1:Okay, now, going into our next year, we are going to start having the audition process again. However, let me tell you why we didn't do the audition process in my mind at this time, right after COVID Because this is when we were the most vulnerable and I was the most obviously out of whack per se. Or you would say, john, we didn't have an audition process, we did a invitational right, we reinvited the students And if people wanted to audition for our program, they would do it privately. And the reason why I felt very strongly about private auditions is because I felt like earlier, when we first started having auditions, when we first were opening, there was less and less people coming to the audition but people still signing up. So I feel like people were not making time for the audition, even though it was mandatory.
Speaker 1:They would pull out any excuse and you're not gonna I mean, i know for us, like I'm not gonna tell someone no, necessarily because they don't come to the audition, right, but a lot of times people say they don't do the audition because they're trying to get out of the financial commitment, they're trying to get out of the time commitment, whatever kind of thing that you're twisting as to the reason why someone can't go, and that was really stressful for me, because if I have a team of 50 kids and only 35 show up to audition, that stresses me out so much because the other whatever that math is 15 kids. You're like well, are they staying, are they leaving, what are they doing? So that's why I felt, you know what let's do re-invitational. We made it kind of a thing We sent people. Well, at that time, during COVID, we sent people out like a packet slip and we did it all through the mail, kind of trying to excite the kids, which I think was really exciting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was the year like, because here in New Jersey we had to take from March. You know that mid-March point where everything shut down through.
Speaker 1:I think almost August, literally August.
Speaker 2:We were not allowed in the studio.
Speaker 1:Pretty much. Yeah. I mean it was literally the mid-August, since we were starting to have our tenses. We were in masks all the way pretty much up until nationals. But aside from all of that, in my mind I was like, okay, this is how we're going to do it. We're going to do it like this We're going to send the invitations out. Anybody who wants a private audition. It would be a private virtual audition. We did zooms with their parents And you know we still made some money off of it. I mean, it wasn't as much as when you hold, like a full audition. Again, we're a smaller space, so not, as you know, we don't really make that much money off of it anyway.
Speaker 1:So sorry, i tangented for a second, but it ended up being great, honestly, because people were loving the fact that they were getting the mail. They were ready to dance again. So actually my fear was the other way, because people were ready to get back. So we actually found an increase at that time. New people were coming After our intensives, people were signing up. So there was like this process where, like in June we sent this out, so we were having registrations June, people were coming back. In July We were having private virtual auditions. People were sending in their solo videos. People were sending. That's what we ask for. Now, when people are wanting to audition Every part, i would say well, can you send me any footage that you have of your dancer? That's like the first step, yeah, and that made me feel so much better. So then, when we did it again the next year, wasn't your favorite, john.
Speaker 2:I prefer physical audition, or we call them callbacks.
Speaker 1:Wasn't your favorite And I loved it because I was like we sent the paperwork out. I think last year I was quicker on it, but we sent the paperwork out like June 1st And I give a deadline of like I think it was mid-July, mid-july It was July 15th And we had all of our registrations by July 15th And it was like you're going to get your solo in order of your registration.
Speaker 2:And we still do that And I highly recommend doing that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we, yeah, so we Whatever the order that we received back, we started booking the solos. I did not book anybody's solo until I got their paper back, so some people weren't getting their solos done until the end of October, where other people's had their solos choreographed and done by August, and some people may think that's unfair. I think it's perfectly fair, it makes sense. No, I think it makes sense 100%.
Speaker 2:If you send your registration in August 1st and then somebody sends it in August 31st, why is August 31st person getting their solo done the first before?
Speaker 1:you. So I think that was like Also what are?
Speaker 2:you doing between August 1st and August 30th.
Speaker 1:I think that was like a really, really, really big thing, Like in the sense of like the process. I'm like, okay, kids are coming back Like this is what's happening Now, next year we're still up in discussion about this, And I think We're going back to callbacks. We are going back to callbacks next year because it is getting progressively harder to place kids in dances.
Speaker 2:As we grow, it's definitely more difficult to Mostly new dancers.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's really difficult to place them appropriately in routines with dancers that we've had for so long. Well, of course. So I think the callbacks in that sense, or the audition, is going to really streamline.
Speaker 1:Well, I think in my mindset too, I was like well, nobody's going to come and audition if they're still there, others to do, because they don't want people to talk about them auditioning at other studios 100% fair.
Speaker 1:So I think that's where private auditions come in handy, and I also think that's why we get a lot of enrollment after summer. Intensive work for new students All new students, by the time. Intensives are Like we don't give out our Any stuff regarding next season until your dancer has signed up for intensives, because we require one intensive in order to come back, and if someone doesn't sign up for an intensive, they don't get their paper. We assume they're not coming back. We reach out to them And then usually at that point they say either yes, i'm coming back or no.
Speaker 1:I know I tangent a little bit from today's main topic, which was coping with how a student leaves. However, i feel like a big reason why we get nervous when people are leaving is the financial portion, because, let's be honest, at the end of the day, this is our business, this is our livelihood And we rely on our clientele to keep us going. So I hope that this gave a little bit of a different perspective on, maybe, how you can run your registration process, how you can run your callback process. I know next year we're going to do callbacks I think we talked about doing it for a couple of days And let's put it another way, just like we should in our case, esar, over this year we're going to do people that these guys is not going to committee And I don't believe that you have the confidence to say these guys are not going to advocate. They don't advocate.
Speaker 2:So the thing is I'm also making one thing up to this point with a couple of a couple more challenges, because doing this collection for both adults and students.
Speaker 1:You make your studio. Nobody makes your studio run except for you. So don't think by losing that one, two or three students, your entire program is gonna crumble. It is not going to. I promise you. Someone else will come in, other people will come in and those kids that maybe you don't feel like are as strong will rise. They will rise to the occasion, absolutely. See you next time, guys. Bye guys.
