Dance Buzz
Talking all things Dance every Wednesday.
Dance Buzz
Episode 7: Behind the Curtain: A Deep Dive into Favoritism in Dance
Ever wondered why some dancers always seem to be the favorite? Why they always get the main roles, or the spotlight in every performance? Well, we've got the answers for you! We delve deep into the hot topic of favoritism in dance, unraveling its complex layers from the classroom to the stage. Not just that, we’ll also share our views on the importance of technical and choreographic strength for dancers. We draw from our experiences, where technical prowess isn't just an asset, but a deciding factor in a dancer's placement. We also talk about how a dancer's approach to corrections and confidence building could shape their dance journey.
Hello everybody, welcome back.
Speaker 2:I'm Chelsea Godfrey.
Speaker 1:And I'm Jonathan Godfrey.
Speaker 2:And on today's episode of Dance Buzz, we are going to be talking about what I believe to be one of the most popular and controversial topics in dance, which is favoritism, and does it exist?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think there's different perspectives of favoritism that we'll jump into and we'll talk about why people think favoritism exists. And I do think favoritism does exist to a point, but I think favoritism is almost an easy way out for people to be like well, that's not why it was picked for.
Speaker 2:Sure X and, as always, these topics and conversations are our experiences, and our experiences alone, and our personal opinions on how we view the classroom and how we approach our personal classroom, so we are not speaking for anybody else but ourselves. However, maybe these topics in this conversation will allow people to see different perspectives of what it looks like from the teacher or us as studio owners.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I think we could start with just what is favoritism in the broad sense? And favoritism in the broad sense, in the general sense, is just well. I mean, if I go into a class and I'm, like you know, my dog Theo is my favorite student, I thought would be favoritism. I'm verbally announcing that it is my favorite student.
Speaker 2:Right. So I think we need. There's two things to take into consideration here, right. One is verbal and the other is like action.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like a special treatment.
Speaker 2:Right, so special treatment that is extremely evident into a way where it's kind of like repetitive and it doesn't give, it's not an equal opportunity space or experience for all students, right, Wouldn't you agree with that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, you know, for me personally, if a student ever walks in late, my students know they do push-ups. If you are one minute late, I don't even have to say it. Most of the time the kids walk in I prefer not to have any interaction in that sense and I mean that in the way of I don't want kids to come in and we talked about this a little bit on. Our rules in classrooms is don't stop the flow of class, don't interrupt me because I'm trying to teach class and we have corrections. To just walk in, acknowledge me, I'll acknowledge you, we see each other and then my kids just jump down and do push-ups. Now, for me, something that would be favoritism, I guess in a special treatment way, would be if student A comes in late, just one time, just one time, and I'm like do your push-ups, do the push-ups like you're late, da-da-da, or.
Speaker 1:And student B comes in late all the time, but doesn't do push-ups, sure, unless there's something physically wrong with you, can't do push-ups, right, but like for me that would be like a favoritism thing, but I think for at least ourselves and probably 99% of the teachers out there, there truly isn't a quote unquote favorite. And I think this, then, can lead us into what is favoritism in dance, in the classroom, in the studios, in the dance world in general.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because I think this is a big thing, because what I think people see is they're seeing stuff and they're saying, well, of course, this person X, Y and Z, because that's their favorite. Well, what does that mean? So this is what we believe people classify as favoritism, as Specifically in the dance world.
Speaker 2:Specifically in dance would be if a student is constantly in the front of every single dance, right, they're front and center or just in the front line. I think if they're given a special role or a lead or a part or even a request like separately even from like being in a dance, but even a request that person is considered a favorite. I think when we're going through technical work and whatnot, we may use a student more frequently than another student to show as an example, and I think a lot of students think, well, they always use them, they always film them, they always that's a favorite. And then the biggest and hottest topic of all is social media and what is posted on my personal and my business I'm sorry, not my personal my business page and how I treat my social media as a business owner. People look at that social media and they immediately are like they feel a certain way.
Speaker 1:I think sometimes yeah, and I said this at the very beginning, I do think favoritism can exist.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:But, like I said, I think 99% of faculty or teachers really don't have favoritism. So I think what we can do is kind of go through those points, all that you just gave, and talk about why the teacher may be maybe putting that dancer in the front or maybe selecting this dancer to go across the floor, and I think we could just kind of talk about it Like what is not favoritism, why this dancer is selected for her right.
Speaker 2:So I think it's the why that's missing from everybody's mind. People just assume, and even like from a parental perspective, you know, I think parents will say, well, they have their quote, go to you know Group and like my kid is irrelevant and that's so far from the truth. Um, people, parents are not in the physical classroom, right? They don't know what's going on and you want to, you know, believe what your child is telling you, and I understand that because that's your child, you know. But we also have to remember that there may be a teenager and everything at that. Teenage age is very emotional.
Speaker 1:And the perspective is skewed. I mean, as a dancer and you know, if you're saying like the dancer next to me is the favorite, of course your perspective is going to be skewed. But I think, coming back a second talking about what you're talking about is the parent is not in the classroom. Yeah, they cannot see what's happening. So I think it's it's difficult for them to understand sometimes where you're. Like you know, dancer a is really struggling to pick up choreography and they maybe they don't understand what that means. Maybe they don't, and that's totally fine. So you know, if you'll explain it to them, but because they're not there and they're not working with them in a dance sense, they're not going to get that same perspective. Um, you know, and popular to, or contrary to popular belief, we as educators want the best for these kids.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah we want the best for every student that walks through our doors and then we work within class like we're never trying to hold a particular Dance or back. We're not holding them back because of some Made-up theory in your head. I'm sorry, it's, it's just not happening. We want the best and if they're in a particular level, or if they're in a particular line or if they're in a particular dance, there's a reason behind it and it's to help them Be the best that they can be now. With that being said, sorry.
Speaker 1:With that being said, not everybody is going to be able to achieve the same, and I think that's a really difficult Pill for parents to swallow as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I, I posted this actually on my social the other day, um, you know, and a friend told me this not all Popcorn kernels pop at the same time, right, like all of the current they they're. They're not taking off all at the same time, right, which means that even though dancer a is 12 and dancer b is 12, that doesn't mean that they're going to still be in the same line, the same level and all that stuff, because there are different places in their journey. You know, maybe we personally have had more time with dancer a. That doesn't mean that we are they're our favorite. They've just had more training under their belt with us.
Speaker 1:Personally, yeah, and I just want to give an example on that, you know, in case somebody may be not fully understanding. It's like if we start with a dancer at, say, age I'm just going to say seven, for instance, and now they're 10, so they know the way we work, they've gone through our training program, so they are a little bit more technically advanced than, say, a dancer who's joining us at 10.
Speaker 1:Yeah you know where. They don't know our style as much. They haven't had the hands-on training that you know. I'm just going to say we provide because that's our strength. So of course it's. It's going to be a different experience for every dancer, but even if two dancers come in at the exact same time, get the same amount of training, the same teachers, the same Exact amount of hours and I'm talking down to the minute the second, you know, because somebody's going to be like well, that dancer went over one minute in their private lesson Every dancer is going to be different. Every journey is going to be different. Everybody is going to get something different out of that and I think if you're able to go into it with a more open mind, you'll be able to see things more clearly and understand why the educators and the teachers and the choreographers Maybe selected that dancer over your dancer. And if you can do that open-mindedly, you'll be able to guide your dancer less emotional and more logical.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we call this and refer to this a lot in our conversations as Big fish, little pond or little pond, big fish, right. So what we're pretty much saying is that you know, a lot of times when students Take the opportunity to come over right to our studio or a place of training, right, typically sometimes people leave their studio because they have feel like they have outgrown their studio right, we chatted about this a little bit.
Speaker 1:They're hitting that plateau right.
Speaker 2:So they've, they've maxed out and they want that next step.
Speaker 1:But they want that next step to only a certain extent, because they are Usually coming from a studio that maybe is a little bit smaller and they are At the top right of their yeah, and not to cut you off, I just want to clarify on smaller doesn't necessarily mean small in numbers, because you could have a 200 person team but just not be able to offer the same. Quality yes, thank you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the same quality of education. But also like what events is that person, what events is that studio attending? Like what's the caliber and that's not. That's no shade and no hate to any studios that that Are maybe attending Like less high-end caliber events, but that's also plays a factor. You know what I mean. If you're talking about placements and overalls and your dancers used to getting you know first overall and then they come and then they're, you know, maybe placing in the top 10, maybe they're at 10th place or maybe they don't place at all and that's just showing like where they. It's kind of like what do you want? Do you want a trophy or do you want the training?
Speaker 1:and I mean the training and the experience, right the growth patterns.
Speaker 2:Right, and I mean that in the nicest way, because for some people that's what they want and that's okay, but that's not how we operate as a business.
Speaker 1:So and some people. Like you said, some people want the trophies. Yeah some parents want the trophies and yeah like you said, there's nothing wrong with that if that is what you want.
Speaker 2:Because sorry, I'm gonna cut you off, john, but I think this has to do with validation. Like Parents, especially on social media, they post their child and their winnings and stuff like that and they're super proud of them and I think it's almost a way for them to validate all the time and the money that they put into their dancers and stuff like that um, that makes them feel like they're making the right decision and things like that.
Speaker 1:But, um, at the end of the day, when you start filling out your resume and you start handing it into colleges and things like that, you're most likely not going to put that. I put I got first overall at this event or this event, regardless of the caliber of that event. What you're going to be putting on those resumes is Summer intensive opportunities, scholarships that you may have received first place trophy is not a scholarship.
Speaker 2:Right and who you've worked with and I feel like us as a studio we. That's why we are really big about bringing people in, because it's all about the exposure, the experience, um Getting that name, that you've worked with that person on your resume. Yeah and um, those are experiences Like one on one, more personal experiences that people are going to be able to to get. Yeah, so you know, going on, I know we kind of I will pretty usual, we tangented, but if you've listened to any of the previous episodes, you know that we start to tangent and go through other things as well.
Speaker 2:So let's talk about why people think, when you're in the front of the dance, why teachers are putting students at the front of the dance, um, most of the time Well, not most all of the time. Right, we're looking at, choreographing and technical work are not always One in the same, and what do I mean by that? So my technical approach in class, how I'm working with students and working with kids in class, you know I give the same amount of energy and effort and whatnot. Now, when we're in the choreography process, I'm not saying I give um different Approach to each child, but at the same time I'm like, okay, I know this kid is going to be able to take this on now. That's not take trying to take away opportunities from other children, but if someone's like more new or more fresh, to me it gives like them, like a role model kind of perspective.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and just because a dancer is technically strong doesn't mean they're choreographically strong. Yes, or vice versa. Just because a dancer is choreographically strong doesn't mean they're technically strong, so you can't be like well, my dancer has better technique than this dancer, so why is that dancer in front of my dancer? And my response, because of how I am, is well, your dancer can't pick up choreography right. You can't pick up choreography, which means you're not going to be able to you're not a reliable dancer.
Speaker 1:You're not a reliable dancer, but you're not going to be able to perform it how I'm looking for it to be formed.
Speaker 2:Um.
Speaker 1:I just that didn't make sense.
Speaker 2:No, it does make sense, because I think that's like a frustrating thing because, you're right, like some kids do have great technique but like they can't pick up choreography at all and, um, you know, I'm sure they're like saying, why are the? You know, why is my child not in the front line? And it's like, well, honestly, they're not reliable. So if something goes wrong in the dance, I don't, I don't know that they're going to be able to make it work. Um, and not go into panic and like freeze mode.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, and I'm going to talk about our experience. We just came back from um velocity nationals Great event, we had a great time. They have a program called mva maximum velocity artists and we had some extremely technically strong dancers who did not make it into the mba program. That's totally fine, there's not a problem with that. But at their nationals they had to learn a routine in a very short amount of time that was very Uh intense rehearsal process and perform with a musical artist, which I think is a great opportunity. But that just goes to show that if you, if I as a dancer, am unable to pick up choreography and execute quickly, and they're not being removed from the dance because that's part of the experience they signed up for, but maybe you're in the back.
Speaker 1:Yeah you know when somebody who obviously can pick up quicker can execute quicker, can execute exactly how the choreographer Once is going to be in the front and there's nothing wrong with that right. You need to then take that and be like listen, I cannot Do this as well as that dancer, so I am going to learn from that dancer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know it's you like there. Like I experienced in my career choreographic process this year, I was like working like I had a lot of new students in my one class this year in my one routine that was Choreographing, and then I had a lot of returning students, but I did have a lot of new students and there was moments and times where I was like Like like kind of weaning in and out, like I guess like newer students, and putting them more towards the front and then pulling them back, like kind of just playing around with Spacing, right. But I have to say that I gave the same student the same correction all the way through nationals and it was still Executed wrong and it's so frustrating.
Speaker 2:It's so frustrating because that dancer has, like, so much potential. But it's just like how do you like like there's no other way for me to re say what I'm trying to say and it was just so frustrating and it was like this is the reason why.
Speaker 2:This is the reason why and it was, it was just a moment, but for me it's like you're, you're right in the center, like why is this not sticking in your brain? And it has nothing to do with me not giving them the attention, because I promise you I did give them the attention during this rehearsal process. I was like, come on and you know what for me and I know maybe for you it's differently, john, but I know, for me I really like to give every student almost like not the benefit of the doubt, but I really want to like continue to give them that like self-confidence boost and know that like I see them, I believe them, I know it's gonna change, but it's like, come on, like we're in June, like this is not changing, and then that that Changes how I want to approach to my next year's choreography.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that is a great point of like and I tell our kids this I'm like you're always an audition. You know kids will be like well when's audition and start for next year. And I'm like you're always an audition absolutely If you're returning to the same studio the next, the following season, like we're in auditions all year. I'm looking at you. I'm looking at how you're picking up choreography, how you're retaining and approaching and taking corrections, how you're standing in class.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm leaning against wall with your arms crossed and you know you're talking to your friend. It's like that just gives off a bad vibe.
Speaker 2:It's not favoritism, it's just like.
Speaker 1:it's a vibe, like that's not favoritism to me, that's like so if you're, if you're gonna sit there and classify somebody who's in the front or a special role in all these dances as favoritism. I'm imploring you to please kind of rethink the way you're looking at it and Take something out of it. Be like okay, you know what, maybe they're not a favorite, maybe they're in the front for a reason, and when I say maybe, I mean they're in the front for a reason a reason.
Speaker 1:So find that reason and try and apply that to yourself. So with that, the next point would be getting more attention in class or being used for Examples in class or across the floor. You know, I go across the floor and I think I said this exact thing in one of our previous episodes. It's like hey, can you do this across the floor? I can't demonstrate, my leg is not going to my head. Like my leg is not going to my head, I am too old to be doing second leaps and like without going home and being like I need an ice bath for the next 24 hours.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh, I think too. It's like I know for myself when I teach, I like to teach using terminology, and what I mean by that is sometimes I I literally should be able to sit, watch the class sit and Verbally, say what I want kids to be doing, and I want to see how they're able to pick that up right. So a lot of times, a lot of the kids that are used to that are the kids that we've been working with, right, all of them, not all not all we'll start there, but definitely a lot and it honestly it's a different way to be taught, right?
Speaker 2:so a lot of people are not used that. So when people are going from one Studio to the next studio or from one studio to our studio, they're not used to the teacher Verbally saying what they want, they're used to the teacher demonstrating it. And I do do both. Like I'm not saying I don't do both, but I could be like, hey, dancer, a Plea, can you please just show this for me and then you know I could you know pk, turn, pk, turn tope powder, right, like. And then I start going through it and like for other kids, that like intimidates them. But what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to Encourage them to not rely so heavily on watching the teacher to be able to know what to do, like I want them to be able to pick it up faster through, you know verb verb need to be able to learn from every type of educator.
Speaker 1:So by offering your dancers different styles of teaching in your own teaching, it not only helps you, I feel like, as a teacher, but it's helping your students, you know. So some days I will and I'll let the kids know and be like I'm gonna sit here for the next four exercises. I'm just gonna talk it to you. Has nothing to do with laziness or not wanting to do anything. It's they need to be able to pick up. And then there's other days where you know Maybe I'm doing please, some days I do please with them, I love please. But or I'll take a dancer and be like, okay, I'm gonna talk, you're gonna demonstrate, and it gives them. It gives that dancer the opportunity to process quickly, but it gives the other dancers the opportunity to watch.
Speaker 2:So Sorry, go ahead. No, go ahead. I want to just chime, because we had a teacher that taught us in ballet and he used to go around the room and he would make one person, he would tell one person the phrase and he would make them demonstrate in front of the whole class. Well, we're standing up bar right, and I was always the frappe person for whatever well, not for whatever reason. There was a reason. He went to the people he knew were good at that particular Study and he was like okay, this is what I want you to do, and then he would give me the frappe combination. He probably would not pick me for a leg extension. Phrase Devlapes like nice adagio.
Speaker 2:Probably not gonna get the pig for adagio. But you know what? I'm not gonna cry about it. Um, that that's. I mean it's in the nicest way. It's kind of like common sense. Like obviously you're gonna choose a student that's executing it the way that you want it to be executed, that's executed correctly, executed properly. That doesn't mean that another dancer isn't ever gonna get those opportunities. It just me. And like, as I see progress, I like to go around the room. I don't want to think that I have to like rely on a couple students. I want to know my whole studio is gonna be able to do this. So it's not about that and I am fine with being the frappe girl, like I don't, I don't need to be the adagio girl, but I know in my mind, okay, that's where I need to work on is adagio, yeah, and I think Offering slightly difference perspective, because the way you know I'm thinking like I think a lot about time.
Speaker 1:I'm a very time conscious like person. So if I choose Chelsea to demonstrate adagio, and that's not her forte, and let's just say it's not your forte, you're even just doing it, but like remembering things, I don't want to have to take the time and I'm like, okay, we're gonna develop a, and she's like, what's the play? I then have to take the time to explain to my demonstrator what a develop pay is, which then takes at least 30 seconds to a minute, and I have to say I have to do it for every exercise. I'm gonna waste what 10 minutes of class right, explaining to the person who's demonstrating, who's supposed to be showing the other students what's happening. So it's not about favoritism, it's about who can demonstrate correctly effectively.
Speaker 1:Yeah, time management taking time, um, making the most of class showing it correctly. So like if Chelsea can't do adagio correctly and she's gonna technically show it incorrectly, you're not, actually, you're moving on. Why am I gonna have Chelsea?
Speaker 1:show it to the rest of the class who's hoping to then Pick up and take from that, like it just doesn't make sense. But unfortunately, as young dancers and as parents, we think more emotionally, you know, and that there's nothing wrong with emotions. I mean, I not really wanted to say things about that, I'm not a very emotional person, but it's like there's nothing wrong with it. But the key is here 24 hour rule. If you're gonna send an email and I think this applies in general take 24 hours, kind of let it settle, then rethink about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm not gonna lie, We've never got an email about us not using their child as like a Demonstrator in class, like that's never been an issue. But I think that's a conversation that's happening at home and I think it's like festers and then there's no communication, right?
Speaker 1:communication, communication, communication.
Speaker 2:So which leads into social media? Right, because a lot of people are probably like, okay, well, you keep posting these same people. Okay there, the reason why a lot of people get posted on social media is exactly for the same reason why we use people as demonstrators. It's executed correctly, right. It's a representation of our brand.
Speaker 1:I was gonna say you could just put a period on that and just call it a day, like that's great.
Speaker 2:It's a representation of our brand. We we shouldn't feel like we have to be worried about Um, in the nicest way, hurting someone's feelings, because we are only. You know, we're posting what we feel is going to benefit our brand the most, and I mean that out of a lot of love and respect. Um, at the end of the day it's it's our business page and you know what, if someone's giving me a terrible arabesque photo, why am I gonna post that person's terrible arabesque photo?
Speaker 1:I'll do, some people do and you know what.
Speaker 2:And, to be honest, guys, sometimes people like, maybe People have like really nice photos or videos and then they don't share them with me, right, like, and maybe people don't know if that's a open thing to be able to do. So then open that window. And I've said this a million times, like I tell people when they get, whether they win accolades, when they have photos, if they want to share something with me Like, share it to me, send it to my email, then at least I have it and then I have like a, like a dropbox folder.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if I'm scrolling like social media and I see one of our dancers post the video, you know, I'm like send this to me. Yeah, they didn't do it already. Send this to me. I want to post it. You know, um, but you can't get mad if you're not. If we're posting dancer a and your dancer be, but I don't have that and maybe I didn't see it, and then it's like well, you posted this person first.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, social media is so crazy. I have literally I've gotten like we've had to literally stop sharing any kind of photo Of dance, like anything, because people, if we miss a photo that we don't share onto our business page, it's literally a nightmare.
Speaker 1:It's the end of the world.
Speaker 2:It's a nightmare. We actually get a lot of complaints about it and it's like why did you like this person's, why you comment on this person, why are you sharing this person? And it's like wait, we're not even thinking that deeply about it.
Speaker 2:Like we're really not like always see, as this is a great photo, this will look great for our page and for our Business and we're gonna share it. It has nothing to do with if we like that kid or not, and I love when my students share their videos and all that kind of their stuff and we encourage them to tag us. We're not saying don't tag us, but we have to stop resharing any photographs because it literally was to the point where it was so crazy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, you're referring to photo shoot photos, not event photos and things like that but photo shoot photos because, dancers post them a lot and we talked about this a lot in social media.
Speaker 1:The last episode about sharing more dance videos and things like that, and you do, you get a lot of photo shared and that's fine If that's what you want to put up there. I mean, I'm going to encourage you to put more videos and you know whatever. But if you want to share all those photos, fine, but I I'm not going to continuously share them because of this reason, because of this reason, and we would love to.
Speaker 2:But it's like if we make a mistake and we miss someone, it becomes intentional and then we intentionally don't like this child and it's like because of one misshared photo.
Speaker 1:And then there's some dancers who have their accounts private. Great, there is nothing wrong with that. But I remember I think it was like two years ago some of it was like you didn't share this photo. I was like I can't your accounts private, I can't physically share this photo.
Speaker 2:So, and then, assuming that there's a reason why there's account, their account is private anyway.
Speaker 1:So it's like you don't want your stuff shared.
Speaker 2:Exactly so then how can we post you even on? I mean, we have all of our families they release in their, in their contract. It's like social media release pretty much that we can use their photos and stuff like that. But it's like if your account is private, like like it's kind of confusing. It's like it's definitely confusing.
Speaker 1:So let's jump into what I think is going to be the final segment. A good segment of this is how to be a quote unquote favorite. How do you become a quote unquote favorite so if you are sitting there saying everybody else is a favorite and not me?
Speaker 2:this is how you can become a quote, unquote.
Speaker 1:I'm going to continue to say quote, unquote, favorite, because it's not true, but it's just like some people still aren't going to believe it and this is it's all logic, guys. All right.
Speaker 2:So first thing is this is by you taking the most amount of technical classes and accepting the most amount of dances. If you can financially, you have the financial means for it.
Speaker 1:Sure, and before we jump into this, this just popped in my head about the conventions. People would be like we'll go to conventions and be like, well, they only called out these three dancers. But those three dancers probably go to four or five of those events every year and like where? Some people are like, well, that's unfair. And I'm like, why is that unfair? They're playing the game. They're playing the game and they are doing exactly what they should be doing. They're putting themselves in front of that choreographer because clearly they want to make a connection with that choreographer. There's nothing wrong with that. Like, if you're trying to be, say, an assistant for the Godfrey method, it's probably in your best interest to train with the Godfrey method as much as you possibly can. So there's nothing. I'm not looking at it like this person's trying to suck up to me. No, this person's trying to gain as much knowledge as they can from us, whatever their motive may be.
Speaker 2:Absolutely so right.
Speaker 2:So if you're no no, no, that's a great point. And like I think too, like kind of just going back into like what I'm talking about, like in the sense of technical classes and stuff like that, like you know, we don't know everybody's financial situations, we don't know everybody's home situation, so we always take that lightly, right, we always or take that with a grain of salt, sure, right, but for the most part, like, if someone's attending like 40 conventions a year, we're assuming that they probably have the means to be able to do as many technical classes as they can.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right Cause like why wouldn't you invest in the technical part of your training?
Speaker 1:Because people value sometimes, like you said, that accolade or that additional event over your home training. Which is more important Moving on is, if you are constantly absent, you are not exactly setting a great precedence to the teacher that you are a reliable I was going to say source, but dancer.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, if we have 10 classes and you miss even two of them, that's 20%. It's a fairly large number. You know John is a numbers guy. He always says you know, you're missing 20% of your classes. That's an or this class or whatever. That's not a great source and you're missing out on 20% of the knowledge that everybody else is getting.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, I mean, like, think about it, we've I feel like we've talked about this before.
Speaker 1:I talk about this a lot with absences, when people like miss them. Like if you miss just one one hour class, even a month, for instance, a month we train, you know, I'm just going to use a standard dance season 10 months you're missing 10 hours.
Speaker 2:Let's say, if you miss one, one hour a month one one hour, and most people don't miss one one hour. They're usually missed like the full day.
Speaker 1:They'll miss the day. So, three, four hours, right Over the course of a year, you're going to miss 30 to 40 hours of class that somebody else is taking more of, unless you're making up your classes, which I implore all dancers to do Now, if your studio doesn't offer makeup classes which I don't know of any studios that don't offer a makeup class when you miss, right, but just do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I think, because people will be like, well, they don't have it in their schedule, they can't do it.
Speaker 1:They don't have it in their level and they don't want to level down to makeup classes and I'm like yeah, doesn't make sense. You know what I'm going to talk about? One of our students that graduated this year and won't give any names, but I'm sure she'll know, yeah, our dancers will put it together.
Speaker 1:But we had one dancer who graduated this season, so graduated from high school, moving into college, so she's presumably 18, you know would take class, make up her ballet classes, two levels and sometimes three levels down, which, age wise, is approximately 10 years, right, sometimes not any less than 10 years, but somewhere between eight and 10 years below her, with dancers who are obviously less technically advanced, less knowledgeable. But she didn't care, she came into the class, she took it open mindedly, and I remember having a conversation with her one time where she talked about like you know, I enjoy this class because I'm able to focus on myself, right?
Speaker 1:Right you know she's not worried about everybody around her and being with her friends and that she's focused on her technique in this class.
Speaker 2:So and I think too sorry that it was a because it was such a slow class, she literally could just work on refining, like it wasn't about how quickly she could pick it up, like it wasn't about like the other things, it was all about refinement and like I think that's a beautiful thing to recognize and it takes a really special and mature dancer to be able to have that conversation, because a lot of people would say that they don't, there is no, there's no time in the schedule for it. But the truth is there is time.
Speaker 1:It's just maybe with your egos in the way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, your egos in the way, or you just didn't want to do it Right. You didn't make the time. Because there it like.
Speaker 1:We know we know schedules, we know where people are Like there, we know what you're making time for and what you're not making time for and I mean, this is another story, not about our own kids, but I remember my ballet teacher in high school who is past now because he's much older, but he danced alongside of Brishnikov with New York City Ballet and he would always talk about and I'm drawing a blank on the name, but the female soloist at the time would go and take class at you know a local ballet studio and would take beginner ballet classes all the time, because she would just go in and be able to be like all right, I could just approach class differently, You're not having to worry about keeping up with something more technically advanced and quicker, you could slow it down, you could take your time and you could focus on yourself.
Speaker 2:So wait, hold on. I want to chime off of that really quick, if you don't mind, because we had this conversation a couple days ago where you were saying that it's almost like kids who are secure or comfortable in their placement, like where they are excelling and how they're excelling. The kids that are more, maybe, technically advanced are actually more comfortable taking a lower level class, where kids who maybe need more quote technical advancement almost like they need like that ego boost to kind of Tell them that they are like better, better, yeah, and like people who are already so fantastic Don't need the ego boost. They're just open and willing to take whatever class.
Speaker 1:They don't care because they're able to go into class and take from it, like whatever they need. Yeah, you know, I was always told that when I was younger and dancing, that no matter what class you take, you're learning something from it. And that is a very bold statement, I believe, but it's true. There is something that every teacher has to offer, whether the best teacher in the world or, honestly, the worst teacher in the world you are going to grow something because somebody is going to say something different than what your previous teacher has said and it's going to Adjust and click. So every class you take, every teacher you take from, will teach you something. And bouncing and continuing you know what you're talking about. Yeah, those dancers who are secure and confident are Growing at, I'm going to say, a more exponential rate, because they're able to just go and open-mindedly, they're not caring about the person next to them.
Speaker 1:They're not this person's wearing this.
Speaker 2:Oh my god, this person's doing they're not thinking about, they're not gonna get like anything about other people.
Speaker 2:They're thinking about themselves, yeah and they're they're not thinking all I'm not gonna get anything out of this class, right, they're thinking I'm gonna get the most I possibly can out of this class. Yeah, so it's all about the approach and I think that goes right into, you know, talking about we talked about attendance and taking classes and whatever and Making the studio a priority, right, and I'm not saying over schoolwork, because we understand schoolwork comes first. But if we have a rehearsal, and it's a really big rehearsal, and you have a football game that they have every Friday night and you choose, go to the football game, that to me is kind of like, I would say, a red flag.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I mean there's different levels of priorities. Listen, if your family has a trip scheduled and you're going overseas to like Europe or you know whatever Italy or I mean that's in Europe but I'm not expecting you to cancel your family vacation for a one-hour rehearsal. We're understandable people. Yeah, you know like we are. But smaller things like oh, we were gonna go have lunch, okay, but can we do lunch after the 30-minute rehearsal, after the one-hour rehearsal? So, yeah, making your studio, your you know whatever teachers a priority, I don't know if the word is like priority, but just like, like people commitment level to your commitment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:If you're gonna give more to me, I'm gonna give more to you, right, and you can't get mad if your teachers offering private lessons on the weekends or something you know, and every weekend I offer I don't, sometimes I do, but let's say, every weekend I'm offering private lessons and I know you're available but you never come. You're not gonna grow as much and you know, and maybe it is a financial thing, maybe it's not, but if you're making a priority and you're making a commitment to your teacher in your schedule, you know that will be reciprocated and you will see that in your growth patterns.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely that goes right into like the support system of the family. Like we need to know that not only is the student prioritizing us, but also is the family prioritizing us, or just the family recognize and have the same values. Like sometimes the dancer really values what we bring to the table but the parent does not and it really causes a Really weird.
Speaker 1:Well, changes the way this. The student is gonna walk into the student approach class, right. So if the dancer is really committed, really wants it, but every night they're going home and the family is talking shit about the student or the teacher that is going to then be brought into the studio. Yeah, and that student is not going to have the same Approach that they would if you were just a little bit more confident in where you are and if you feel the need to constantly be Be belittling where you're going.
Speaker 2:It's probably not the best fit for you, it's probably not the best fit for you and Maybe other things should be evaluated. Yeah, but because there are really just honestly some I mean in this business that we've I mean we've been doing this, I mean we've been talking about this, but we've been doing this, but owning the business. You know, we're going to our eighth year and there's just some really Like people are just not happy, just unhappy people, and you're just like Jesus, like are you okay? I'm like I mean that and then like in a way where it's just like no matter what you do, no matter how you like, no matter anything no matter what your dancer is offered and awarded and won doesn't matter, they just like Still, like you're just like the worst thing, and it's like, it's like there's always something, and it's like oh, my goodness, I think there's a difference between being ambitious and wanting more.
Speaker 1:Yeah and just like being unhappy. Yeah like, I consider us to be ambitious people. Yeah like we are constantly looking at new things and you know new opportunities and new ventures and things like that but like I think we're happy in where we are. Yeah, you know, like not saying that this is going to be my life for the entire rest of my life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was we're probably, but you know, like we're looking at other things, but like I am content and happy where I am, but I'm wanting more. Yeah, there's a difference right, absolutely.
Speaker 2:And I think, like I think, like parents, we just need to remember that if you are not, if you, like John saying, are constantly going home and you're constantly belittling, it's really gonna affect your dancers approach and how they're taking their classes, which all is just a trickle-down effect of. Why am I not the favorite? Well, probably because you're not technically advancing, you haven't prioritized this. You know you think less of us, so you're not going to be putting in all that effort.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and our next point here is being open to feedback and open to correction, and this is both on a dancer's and a parent Level yeah you expect us and most studios are open to feedback to a point.
Speaker 2:Yes, we listen to what people I do. I listen to what people have to say like I, I'm like open to what people have to say, but I don't like when people try to tell me how to run my business.
Speaker 1:Correct, that's a whole different point. You know, there's a difference between saying let's kind of rolls into the, the final point.
Speaker 1:Well, we'll blend this all together is why is Sally not in the same dance as Susie? No, let's just stop there. That's not how you approach the conversation. If you are actually asking, take a moment, let it settle and your approach should be like you know, how can Sally I don't even remember if these were the names I used how can Sally work her way to better, improve herself so that she can be dancing with Susie? Right, you know there's, and even just the way I said it, right and it wasn't that I was forcing. It's very natural when you say why, like, it comes off aggressive.
Speaker 1:It's very meaning yeah where, like how you know, you're more open to feedback. It makes you more willing to listen, and that's you know, better communication skills, better communication skills, because people come to us and they talk to us and you know they'll offer feedback, but, like you said, it's it's really not Correct to be saying you shouldn't run your business like this. You should be doing it like this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, especially, especially I'm so sorry to say this but especially the people who have had past businesses. They try to tell us how to run our business. I'm like listen when you go and you want to open up your own dance studio, then we can have a conversation, and I mean that in the nicest way. My sister I've talked about this again previously on a podcast. My sister was managing a business and I tried to give her my perspective, because I also manage a business and you know what? Quite frankly, she didn't want my, she didn't want my opinion and I was like a little bit offended. But at the same time I'm like I mean, we're in different fields. She wants to learn her own way. Okay, that's fine. And like I get that. Like you want to offer it and like this is how you do it. And oh, you should have oh, my god, I love them. People like you should have an anonymous Feedback box. I'm like why?
Speaker 2:so people can shit on us like no, sorry, we're not gonna be having an anonymous box like, if you need to say it anonymously, it most likely means you probably shouldn't be saying it cuz you know, it's like exactly just like, have that conversation with us, like Like you know what I mean, like I know people Give us their opinions about certain things and it's just like okay, but that's for your dancer, we're looking at all the dancers as a whole.
Speaker 1:I've said this before. I mean I mean feedback pertaining to how to make your personal dancers Experience better is fine, but I need to think about all of my clients as a whole. Right, I can't be making decisions on Sally. Yeah, I have to make it as a company With that point. Jumping back and just rounding it out here, like the feedback, if I go to a parent and I say If they're wondering why they're dancer, and I say to them, you know, listen, this is what we need to work on, whether it be technical work, you know Korea.
Speaker 2:Choreographic work, and this has happened. I know exactly.
Speaker 1:Literally. I won't give the full story, but this has happened exactly and I I will time out of my day because I had encouraged you.
Speaker 2:We had, we had been getting a lot of questioning from this Particular parent though the why, the why, the why. And I said to John, like we've had conversations about it and you know, we give the reason why, like yeah whatever and what they can do, and it was just not enough. And I said to John, I said after a lesson with the dancer, I said why don't you go?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I had a lesson with the dancer. I happened to have a break, like a 30 minute break, between my next lesson, and Chelsea had encouraged me to go talk and I went outside Because we don't have parents in our studio, we don't have a lobby and went outside and talked to the parent and you know I talked and talked and give my reasoning and what I think they could work on and how this and that with also with a lot of Um positive, like good things that they did this dancer has a lot of potential.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you? The response I got pretty much was she's on her phone, a lot. And at that point I knew I was like all right, what am I gonna say? They're on their phone in the middle of class, we're in the middle of ballet bar and she's out texting. Like that's not how it works. Like yes, the dancer may be on their phone or distracted at home, but when we're in the studio your dancer is not on their phone.
Speaker 2:Right, there's something else that's happening and it's like if the parent is so unwilling to accept that this is happening, why would the child accept it?
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 2:Why.
Speaker 1:The dancer. That parent is giving excuses for their dancer as to why they are not achieving X goal.
Speaker 2:And that is not how to be a favorite guys, that is not how to be a favorite. So if you want to be a quote, unquote favorite.
Speaker 1:Your best thing is to take the feedback and, even if you're a little unwilling to listen to it at that exact moment, just be like thank you for the feedback. We'll take that into consideration. I get it easier said than done Take 24 hours, then reflect back on that feedback. You'd be like you know what they're probably Correct Exactly correct and I can really grow from being able to take this feedback.
Speaker 2:I have to say confidently, whenever giving advice or talking to people about where I think they should go and what we think they should do, we have never been wrong Literally never, like we have always guided the people the right route to be the most successful. Even the kids that have left us, gone to another studio and literally have ended up exactly where we knew that they had the potential to what we had pushed on them for so many years, it like took for whatever reason.
Speaker 1:Or the conversations. Well, I'll run into parents. I mean we don't live in like a city, we're in a fairly. I mean it's not a small town, but it's not a big town, a medium-sized suburban town, and I'll run into parents' places and they're like you know what. I just wish that I listened to what you said before, really really, and as happy as that makes me like to hear that I was right, because that's just me.
Speaker 2:It's an ego boost.
Speaker 1:of course it's an ego boost of course, but I'm just like I know, but like I could have helped that dancer grow. So much more so much more or just played a larger role. And you want that. We want to play large roles in these dancers' careers and lives, and it's not about us I mean at least us personally. I it's not about us. It's so funny because I was just in a studio and you couldn't come with me you know, Because Chelsea's pregnant so she can't fly with me at the moment.
Speaker 1:And I flew somewhere and I was teaching and they introduced Chelsea as my sister and I was like, oh no, that's my wife. And the studio was like, oh, you guys, don't advertise about yourself. And I was like, yeah, I mean, we keep our personal lives and our business lives separate. And for me, I'm not posting myself constantly, like if one of my students does well, I'm not sitting there posting a picture of myself, I'm posting a picture of them or of the dancer or whatever. So I don't even remember where I was going with this. To be honest.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no no, yeah, no, I understand what you're saying. You're just. I think we're just talking at this point honestly, because I think, because favoritism is such a controversial topic and I think there's so many reasonings why people think favoritism exists that nobody has taken the opportunity to actually really identify what is favoritism right? Because I think that, from a teacher's perspective again, like John has been saying constantly over and over and over like favoritism is not a one-size-fits-all right, like we know, like personally the way we teach and we approach class, we are very confident that we treat every child the exact same. We make it very known that there is no hierarchy. Nobody gets treated differently, with the exception of, maybe, our seniors, and we give them that opportunity and that role because they're supposed to be right under the faculty right, and they're role models, so there should be role models to the rest of the studio of how to present yourself how to take class, how to whatever.
Speaker 1:So I'm just gonna reiterate these last bullet points right here. If you want to be a quote unquote favorite, this is what you need to do. You need to take as many technical classes as you can possibly take. You need to have the least amount of absences. You need to be as present as you possibly can. You need to make a priority into the things that you want to excel at. I'm not even gonna say it has to be the studio, I'm just gonna say it what you want to excel at. You have to be open to correction, your parents need to be open to feedback and you need to start working on how to improve versus why. I am not.
Speaker 2:Period and, honestly, listening to those things, it should sound like logical but for whatever reason, like John says, nobody thinks logically, everyone thinks emotionally and nobody wants their child to go home crying and feeling like a certain way. But I think it's our job as parents to almost navigate that conversation and really take stop. We're older, right? So we have to not think about everything so emotionally. We have to think about it more logically and we have to approach those conversations like so, because I'm telling you, I didn't not share your dancer's photo on my social media page because I don't like your dancer. I didn't share it because I didn't see it, and I think sometimes that's something that people forget. We are not only business owners, but we are actually real people.
Speaker 1:We're human beings.
Speaker 2:And we make mistakes, we make errors and we learn as we go. We learned a lot this year, right, and next year I'm sure it'll teach us something else. And carry on and carry forward.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I just have one more story, because you talked about nobody wants to see their dancer going home crying, and then we could finish up. But this is my last story, unless we tangent into something else. But a couple of years ago I think this was like our second year in business we had gotten an influx of some new students and we had one student who literally went home every day crying for like three or four months. I remember finding out later.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And the mom never said anything to us. And I think the reason was because the dancer was coming home crying because they were being pushed so much more. So it was like a challenge for them, but it was also like the parent knew this was the growth pattern that was needed for their dancer. So there's-.
Speaker 2:Right, they weren't crying because they were like being bullied. Yeah, no, yeah.
Speaker 1:There's a difference between and I think that's probably hard to see your child cry in general, but you have to kind of separate. Why are they crying? Are they crying because they're being bullied, or they're crying because they're being pushed and they're getting what they actually need?
Speaker 2:Right and neither say that dancer graduated. She was one of our top dancers that we had at the studio and she is continuing dancing today in college.
Speaker 1:Yeah, at a great university.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and she's loving it. So, anyway, I hope this gives people some different perspectives, some different insights. Teachers, I hope we could have helped of two, have been a voice for you as well, because this is a very big conversation that everybody has, and we're here to say that we are no exception. We are no exception, but we take pride in knowing that. We can confidently say that we don't have favorites, we just have expectations, and the students that are meeting and excelling at those expectations tend to be more technically advanced, more performance advanced, and it just ends up happening like that, yeah cool.
Speaker 1:All right, everybody. I hope you guys enjoyed, I hope you learned, I hope you take something out of this and we will see you next time.
Speaker 2:Bye.
