Fiber Goats: Pygora, Angora and Cashmere

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Association sites I reference in this episode
Pygora Breeders Association
Cashmere Goat Association
American Breeders Association

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Woolery
https://woolery.com/?aff=352

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My mission at Ewethful Fiber Mill is to fill making hands with small batch American grown yarns and fibers. I strive to produce lightly processed products that maintain their character, have low environmental impact and tell the stories of the animals and shepherds from whence they came.

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Transcript

0:01

Hi everyone. Welcome. This is Kim Biegler owner of Ewethful Fiber Farm and Mill. And I am sitting here at home today in Harrisburg, Oregon, coming to you to talk about fiber goats. And this is inspired by this week's YouTube podcast, blog, whatever you want to call it, where I do a fair amount of carding with Shetland and blending it both with Pygor goat and with Mohair goat. So I thought let's dive a little bit deeper into this and the audio podcast. So if you are looking for some examples of those two fibers, you can head to this week's episode over on YouTube, and I will put a link in the show notes below. So you can get there easily and you can see me working with both of these fibers. We have, before I forget, please. Don't forget to start following this to like this episode. And we do have a useful fiber community over on Patreon where we have lots of fiber people. You get early bird notices on fiber coming out of the mill and there's workshops like this weekend on Sunday. I am doing one on using your blending board. So anyway, there will be links in the show notes to all that, or you can at least get signed up for the newsletter on our website. Link in the show notes to that, of course. Okay, so, let's talk about, I'm going to start with, so there's three main breeds, or types, I should say, not breeds, of goat that I am going to, maybe you do say breeds. Anyway, there's three main types that I am going to talk about in this episode, and it's Pygora, Angora, and Cashmere goats. So those are the three main fiber goats. I'm going to hit on Pygora a little bit harder because they are the crossbreed that a lot of people don't know about. And so I'm going to hit a little bit harder on that just because there's a little more behind the scenes about what's going on with that. And we have one. We have Cuddlebug. So if you've watched Cuddlebug makes an appearance, he introduces that latest episode over on YouTube. He's been in and out of videos throughout the years. So Cuddlebug is a Pygora goat. So let's start there. This is all taken from the Pygora Breeders Association website. And I believe it was the 1980s or so when Pygoras were first bred in Oregon. So we do, I think, have an overabundance, not, there aren't tons of Pygora because they don't make a ton of fiber and, and it's not a huge cash crop. Not that many fiber is, but, but I think we have more here in the Pacific Northwest because this is where they were originally bred. So Pygoras are a cross of pygmy goats and angora goats. So we're going to talk about angoras a little bit. Pygmies are kind of the smaller goats that you see. They're not necessarily fiber goats, but they are smaller goats that you will see around. So you get this cross and the person that was breeding them was looking to create a really fine, luxurious fiber goat. So that's all I'm going to go into on the history of it, but to know a little bit about them. So they are shorn twice a year. But they do shed in the spring and so you can use work I'm going to try it for the first time this year. I'm going to use a basically a comb that is created for cashmere harvesting I'm gonna use it on Cuddlebug this year and see how it goes in the spring when he is starting to lose his coat Because he loves getting brushed. So we're gonna see how it goes. But otherwise they are shorn twice a year Which is its own cost right there, right? There's three fleeces type. So there's three different types of Pygoras that create different fleece types. Basically, same animal, different fleece types. A, B, and C. Pretty easy to remember, right? So A, let's start there. You are getting six plus inches of fiber off of this animal. There is less guard hair than B and C. And your micron is going to be less than 28 microns. This is all breed standard stuff. This doesn't necessarily mean that if you buy a Pygora, it's going to be this. But in theory this is breed standard. So registered breeders, if you're buying from there, this is kind of what they're aiming for. Just a little reminder that I think it's like 30 to 32, somewhere in there, microns. is what is considered, and lower is what's considered next to skin. So when you hear, a lot of times you hear 21 micron merino, 18 micron merino, yes, that's the super soft stuff. But there are a lot of microns beyond that, that are still considered next to skin, and that's kind of by textile industry standards. Okay, so type A. So the less guard hair means, just quickly, that sometimes you could get a type A, Pygora fleece and not have to de hair it. And we'll talk about de hairing a little bit, but there are guard hairs in it, but there's going to be less. Okay. So let's talk about type B. So type B is kind of a combo of mohair and cashmere type fibers. We are looking at three to six inches in fiber length. There's obvious guard hairs in it. And we're looking at below 24 microns. So type A was less than 28 microns. Type B is below 24 microns. So we're getting finer. And then there's type C, which is the closest to cashmere. So just think type C, cashmere. So you're closest to cashmere. Very fine fiber. There's going to be a good, if bred well, a good separation between the guard hair and the fiber, meaning that it will de hair well. And you'll get a nice fiber with not a ton of guard hairs. That's breed standard. That's what you're aiming for. Again, doesn't mean what you're always going to get. 1 to 3 inches, so we're getting shorter. Every time we get shorter, right, in, in length of fiber. Below 18 microns. So we have significantly decreased the microns now. And you're getting a matte finish with this, which is interesting because the others have more of a luster to them, but you're getting more of a matte finish with this type C. All of these, well, B and C need de hairing, which means literally getting the guard hairs removed. You can do this by hand, but it is not, it is very, very, very time consuming. And type A, I would generally say de hair also, because there are going to be guard hairs, but you could probably get away with less. Dehairing is the act of taking those guard hairs out. You can have it commercially done. When I started my mill, I used to dehair. It's a very, very slow process, even with a dehairing machine, depending on the type and how much guard hair there is. So that adds into the process. when you buy Pygora, why the price goes up and up because there are these extra stages. They don't put a ton of fiber out. So there are colors for Pygora are caramels, agoutis, which is, I had to look it up, which is kind of gray brownish mixes. So there's going to be some white, there's going to be some gray. It's, it's kind of a mix in there. Solid black, solid white. Okay, let's talk about spinning it. So these are double coated animals, meaning that's part of, in the de hairing process, you're pulling some of that fiber out. The undercoat is what you are spinning in these animals. So the undercoat is what is ultimately going to be what you spin, right? That's, what's going to come out of the end of a de hairing machine and all the rest of the stuff that you don't want, which generally weighs more drops out. So because you're de hairing it also, this is a very airy fiber, like if you go look at the video where I'm processing the Shetland with Colobux fiber, it's super fluff. It's just fluff. Okay, so you could card or comb it, like at the mail, I would be carding it, right? And I have carded, when I used to de hair, I would de hair and card with it. A lot of times, just a little bit of, Another, like a wool will help the process along. It will also help a little bit in the fact that this fiber does want to felt up pretty highly. So back to carding or combing. If you are going to comb by hand, it's recommended using cotton cards. So the cards you would use to card cotton and with fine cloth or using mini combs. Like I mentioned, this fiber is very prone to felting. So store it where it's not going to like if you have it in a plastic bag, make sure that plastic bag is not going to get sunlight or be overly heated to where it starts to sweat because that sweat will very happily felt that de haired pygora. And the undercoat, which is what you're spinning, is often a lighter color than what you will see on the animal. So that's kind of some basics and this will spin into a lovely, it's very silky. It's very fine. It's going to spin up into a lovely lace weave yarn, like doing a lace shawl and Pygora. Stunning. It's also going to have a bit of a halo to it. Kind of similar, depending on the level, how much Pygora you have, you may get a halo off of this. So a little bit of fluff, sort of like when you spin with Angora. Wrap it. Okay. So there's a little lowdown on Pygora. So you can head to the video if you also want to see a Pygora goat. Or obviously you could go to the Breeders Association page or do some Googling. Okay. So let's talk about Angora. So Angora produces mohair fiber, which is very confusing because there's Angora rabbits. Anyway Angora. goats produce mohair fiber. And the info I'm going to share with you is from the American Breeders Association. Keep in mind that around the world, animals can be a little bit different or standards can be different per the animal. So they are chimp free ideally. So less of the guard hair neediness to it. The ideal growth is one inch per month. So that's a lot. That's a lot. That's a lot of growth. The locks are bright, lustrous, fairly uniform throughout the animal, and they tend to be in ringlets. Which, this is something I thought was interesting, that the ringlets do have a reversal in the twist. So they'll be twisting one way, and then there'll be a little reversal point, and they will twist the other way. And that helps prevent some of the ropiness that can happen with that fiber. Fascinating, I thought. And they should have a well defined staple. If you go to this episode that I just did, I show you, I had opened up, kind of picked out by hand, a bunch of this mohair. But I have some locks that are still in lock formation and you'll see how it's very distinct. staple and it's pretty tight those, those curls. So you've got to do the ringlet. So you've got to do some hand picking. These animals are shorn twice a year also, just like pygoras, usually spring and fall, you would shear them. And the ideal at each shearing for an angora goat is going to be six inches because ideally they're putting out an inch every month. So, you know, if you, it would be a hot mess if you let them go a full year, that's going to be a mess of fiber. You're probably just going to throw in the compost pile, but six inches is what you ideally want or more. So that's a lot. And you can, I'm just going to throw this out there. If you're like, Ooh, I don't have six and like, I don't want to spend six inch fiber. You can, if you want to invest the time that you can cut it in half. You have three inch fiber, like literally taking staples, cutting them in half, probably, and then picking them open, which would, in theory, make picking a little easier, I would think, but that's an option if you want it to be three inches and you have very long fiber. And I did want to note that on the association page, it said buying small amounts of Angora is much more economical than raising them, and that made me laugh, because that's true of basically any fiber animal. Okay, let's talk about spinning it. So, likely, like I said, you will need to hand pick those ringlets open. I find it's the easiest way to do it. It's just to sit and open them up by hand. You can comb or card. I mean, at the mill, again, I'd be combing out, or I'd be carding stuff. Combs are going to be great for that long length. I think that's going to be easier to process at home. Is. Spinning it, you can spin it alone. You could spin it straight from the ringlet. I mean, a lot of people especially will use mohair in art yarn. You can just spin ringlets right into your yarn and leave some of it hanging out and have all sorts of stuff. You can also blend it and it is also a very slick fiber. And so it will yield itself to being a thinner yarn if you want it to be. Mohair is very strong. It's a very strong fiber. So in the last episode, I think I talked about using it in sock yarn. So, blending it with wool, a good, strong, sturdy wool to make a sock yarn is a great option for mohair. And then, Yeah, so there's a little bit about angora. I'm not going to go too in depth about spinning. I just kind of wanted to talk about the difference in the fibers itself and later if you want I can talk more about how it would impact your spinning as far as how to spin and or what that end fibers look like. Okay, let's jump into cashmere. So cashmere, this is info is from the North American cashmere goat association. Again, there's a lot of cashmere grown in different parts of the world and so, but this is, I think Russia is a big there's an area in Russia where they process cat, or they process, they breed cashmere goats heavily. So anyway, this is North American. You are looking for, are you ready for it, microns? 19 or less microns. So we are fine. 19 being the high, that is super soft inches, 1. 25 inches. And that is per year. And generally speaking, cashmere is combed out, so you're not going to be shearing. And I kind of mentioned it when I was talking about Pygora and Cuddlebug. They will release the fiber. Same as the pygora. The pygoras do release their fiber or shed, basically, in the spring. So if you don't get that fiber off, it's going to become a felted mess on the animal. So with cashmere, generally speaking, it's such a fine fiber, and when you get into low microns, you get a fiber that is not as strong. That's not necessarily negative. But it's just not going to be as strong because it is so fine in diameter. So you comb that fiber out as it is being released off of the goat gently. And generally that happens in the spring, depends where you live. And they'll release the fiber and you do this gentle comb and it's a special comb used to remove that fiber. And like I said, it's 1. 25 inches. is kind of the minimum, but still, you're not going to get long cashmere. There is going to be guard hair in this, so it does need to be de haired either by hand or via machine. Each fleece ready for this. If you want to know why cashmere costs a pretty penny and like, it's like the Pygora, right? It's got to be dehaired and they don't put a ton out. Even twice a year they don't put a ton out and dehairing is not inexpensive. I will tell you it's, it definitely adds up in the cost and not a lot of people dehair. So finding the mill, getting your fiber there, all those things. Each cashmere goat fleece should yield no less than, so we're talking about after you get that fiber off, after it's washed and dehaired, you should get no less than two ounces. of total down weight, two ounces you all. Now that's the minimum breed standard. So each goat should make at least two ounces of finished fiber. Oh my gosh. So anyway, that's, that's a lot. That's not a lot. I should say. Hopefully they're making more than two ounces, but you can see why the cost of some of these fibers is higher. Plus you're combing out fiber from them. Okay. Spinning it. From what I could see, the happiest ways to do this are either just to have it kind of fluffed, maybe roll it into some rant, like literally you get it, you maybe get an ounce or two, open it up a little bit, maybe roll it, just hand roll it into some roll eggs or spin it right out of that fluff cotton cards. is another option. Those are kind of going to be your best. Of course you can, like it is commercially carted. I have, have I carted? I don't think I've carted cashmere on my machine, but those are some options and just quick tip for spinning it. You're going to want to spin it fast because it's got that short staple length. So having it on the smallest whorl you've got is going to have that twist enter as fast as it can, or something like a support spindle would be great. Cashmere probably going to be. Spun pretty thin, right? Because because it is so short, it's going to need a tight twist on it. And you're going to want that fiber to go as far as possible. So, something to think about. Like, would you want a really worsted weight? I mean, it would take a lot, right? If you can afford to buy two ounces, you want to stretch that fiber as far as you can. So, just for that reason, spinning it nice and thin into a lace weight yarn. And also it's going to be stunning. So, okay, there you go, you all. There is my breakdown of Pygora, Angora, Cashmere. Pygora and Cashmere are both considered luxury fibers. Angora is its own sort of luxury, but it is really quite expensive. strikingly different from Pygora and from Cashmere. So that's what I have to inform you on this time. If I get my wherewithal, I'm going to go to my blog, which is beingEwethful. com, and I'm going to have these all kind of side by side out with maybe some photos of what these different fibers look like. And maybe even throw them some pictures of what the goats look like, because they do look different. Even just given, you know, I mean, you think an indora is pumping out six inches of ringlets and a cashmere goat is pumping out, you know, two inches of fiber. So they do look strikingly different with the fiber on them. So okay you all. I hope that kind of helped demystify a little bit the difference in the fiber goats. And feel free. There is a link to a Google docs. You can ask questions there. You can also email me. I am not on Instagram and Facebook like I once was. So not a great place to reach me anymore, but email the Google form and I will still be on YouTube and here, but comments are not a thing here. So thank you so much for listening. I hope you all are doing well, have a wonderful weekend and I will talk with you all soon.