Dads on Inclusive Lives: Evolving expectations and the early years

February is Inclusive Education Month, and we’re kicking off a three-part series featuring three dads who don’t take their role lightly.

In this first episode of REA-L Conversations, Marta sits down with Alex, Pepe, and Domenic to talk about how their understanding of an inclusive life has evolved over time.

They speak honestly about:

• The power of having just one champion who believes in your child
• How labels in school can open doors to funding, and close doors to opportunity
• A teacher’s high expectations can make all the difference
• Having the opportunity to dream about your future in the same way any student is supported to do this sets students up for success.
• What they would say to their younger selves in those intense early years

Domenic shares what it’s like to see his daughter complete her studies at the University of British Columbia, live independently, and be known by name in her community; a reminder that possibility and hope are real.

Pepe reflects on moving from tears at diagnosis to seeing exponential growth when someone believes in potential. And Alex speaks candidly about the daily tunnel vision of parenting; the grind, the exhaustion, and the importance of stopping to “smell the roses” when you can.

This conversation doesn’t offer polished answers. It offers lived experience. It reminds us that inclusive lives are built through high expectations, small steps, strong relationships, and persistence; especially when the system feels broken.

If you’re in the early years, wondering what’s possible, this episode is for you.
 If you’re further along and need a reminder of why this work is so important, this episode is for you too.

Because this work is harder in isolation. And Dads have important perspectives to share.

Stay connected and join us in the conversation.

REA-L Conversations is a family-led podcast about supporting our family members with intellectual or developmental disabilities to live regular, equitable, authentic lives rooted in community, not separate from it.

Through honest conversation and shared learning, families explore what it takes to hold high expectations and build lives woven into the everyday fabric of our neighbourhoods and cities.

These conversations don't offer polished answers. They offer lived experience, and reminds us that inclusive lives are built with intention, small steps, strong relationships, and persistence.

Stay connected and join us in the conversation

Chapters

• 1:56 Introduction
• 19:38 Reflections and Advice for Parents
• 22:30 Concluding Thoughts

Transcript

Marta: 0:02

Welcome to Season two of Real Conversations. I'm Marta Carlucci. If you've been listening to our podcast for a while, you know real stands for regular, equitable, authentic lives. We're families who are intentionally supporting our family member with an intellectual or development of disability to live a life held to the same expectations with the same opportunities, and belief in their potential that we would have for anyone else. Regular means reciprocal relationships, valued roles, and being part of community life not set apart from it. Equitable means being treated fairly and with respect, with access to the same opportunities as anyone else without lowering expectations or accepting. Second best. And authentic is about having a say in your own life in whatever way you can express it. A life shaped by who the person truly is and valued for what they contribute alongside other citizens. This podcast is families talking honestly about the work it takes to move towards this kind of life. The intention, the thinking, the barriers, the relationships, and the small steps that add up over time. Because this work is so much harder in isolation, we need each other and other families with a similar vision learning from one another as we help to build the lives our family members deserve. Not perfect, not polished, just regular, equitable, authentic lives. Thanks so much for being here. February is Inclusive Education Month, so we thought we would share with you a three part series. We're listening in on a conversation with three dads who don't take their role lightly. In this first episode, they'll dig into how the term inclusive life has evolved for them over the years. They'll talk about inclusive education. And what they would say to their younger self. Let's listen in, shall we?

Alex: 2:30

Am Alex and I am the father of a kid with a disability.

Pepe: 2:36

My name is Peppe and, I have a few years in this journey with a kid with disability that now is in high school. I have a lot of hopes for the future and I'm here to share what happened to me to give a little hope to others.

Domenic: 2:53

My name is Dominic. My daughter finished her studies at UBC. She has her own apartment with her roommate, and yeah, there is possibilities and there is hope.

Marta: 3:03

Thanks so much for being here, Alex Pepe and Dominic. So you all have children who are either in their teenage years or are a young adult, and I'm just wondering how is your idea of what an inclusive life is changed over the years?

Pepe: 3:25

For me that term inclusive life, I dunno. When we talk about fears I remember that when she was in kindergarten and we receive all the, the diagnostics, we receive everything and then, and one thing they say it will be super hard for her to walk by herself. And then I, I process that idea then, oh my God, how she will move in the world, how she will go from here to there and then. How I wanna explain to my family what is happening, know my parents and these things. And, and then they say is, is the mild intellectual disability? And all those kind of things. And then I remember I just start crying.

Alex: 4:28

Mm.

Pepe: 4:28

Then we find one champion, as you say, Dominique, we need just one person to believe in. And I think that was who helped me to believe in things happening, knowing. And we found this really nice doctor then she said, you know what, use these kind of shoes. Let's try to change the shoes and oh my God, start moving in a different way. We know how she start trying to do the stairs and. Try to do, different kind of movements. And that gave me hope. And then I remember mentioning one of the sessions talking about the vision and what I want, and then say, okay, you know what? Let's try to have this vision. In my mind I say, she, she will ride a bike. Everybody say no. At that time. She, and then, I, I remember my, my wife, I say, okay, let register her to the ride the bike camp three weeks, one year, two years, three years. And then one day she start doing the bike. You know, because she. She moved from, it'll be super complicated and almost impossible for her to walk by herself to start walking stairs running and then the bike. But again, find a champion or someone to believe in and help me also to believe this is the conversation we have all the time with my wife now it's the time to start searching for jobs. I see things and say, she can do this, she can do that. I see possibilities. Then it is just to find the person who helps to and believe also in the possibilities. I think this effect to be exponential the same at the school. We have a really nice, champion who is helping us to do things he's asking us what you think will be better then if we try this, we will try that. Instead of, because the other thing that happened, I don't know with you, but my kid has a magnifier. If she take a picture as every other student take a picture, I will receive an email this week about their behavior, what happened, and the other kids that are doing the same. The only difference is my kid. So innocent and transparent, and she don't hide the phone. She takes a picture in front, and the other kids, they know how to hide the phone. No, because they have this magnifier on what are the no expected behaviors to do. But, a champion, I think. And have someone to talk and have ideas and the vision and what we can do and see possibilities. I think that is one of the things that keep us in this, journey in a positive note, you know, with positive attitude,

Alex: 7:38

I mean from the start, knowing at zero years old that there's something going on, whether it's inclusivity or whatever it is, there's always a issue now and then that issue changes and then there's a new thing coming forward and then that goes away. And I don't know, it's ever evolving. I think it's hard sometimes when you're in the middle of it, it's really hard to stop and pause and think about stuff like that, you're so wrapped up in trying to make the day work, it's hard in the moment to think about something like that.

Pepe: 8:15

I agree

Alex: 8:15

yeah.'cause like I was saying before, it's just I get in the tunnel vision of okay, we gotta wake up, we gotta make sure, there's a breakfast, we gotta get kids to school, we gotta do this work. And then next thing dinner and you're sitting down and it's like eight 30 and your brain is broken. So I have no good answer for that.

Domenic: 8:35

For me, the inclusive part is in high school I was like, oh, these kids are going to university. Yeah. There are possibilities. Give people the chance. You can't say, your school can say, this is it. I'm gonna put'em a block. Here's the little block. Put'em in there. Everything is possible. Go to university,, have an inclusive life after university, find a job. Be successful. It's how people perceive inclusive life,

Alex: 9:07

It's different for everybody.

Pepe: 9:09

Exactly.

Alex: 9:10

Yeah.

Domenic: 9:10

Schools,

Pepe: 9:12

they

Domenic: 9:12

don't see it,

Alex: 9:14

mm-hmm.

Domenic: 9:14

They leave

Pepe: 9:15

up

Domenic: 9:15

their school, they're gonna go into the resource room, and then from high school they say, oh, they're gonna go into a program and then they're stuck in the day program. But if parents, we say, you know what? They're gonna go to university. Like every child. And like I said, you need that one person. that's what it means to me, and that's how it changed over the years is my perspective.

Pepe: 9:44

But you know what, I really like what you say about thinking, and I will use the word dream about the future because I, I think with the regular guys. Nobody question that. They, they don't go to the uni. They say, oh, you're finished, you're going to university, you're going to UBC, for example, everybody received an invitation for U-B-C-U-B and all these, welcome and come and join us. And to know the University of Tata, I want my kids to receive the same invitation because she has the chances, and talk about all the programs and, I know if she want to be, whatever she wants to be, again, is, is this ability for her to dream that she can do that. And because I saw things that she's doing. Someone told him that you can do this, and now she's doing really good things woodwork yoga and meditation. I get surprised on those things that because the teachers believe on her and we have a really good experience with some teachers, she's doing this and they develop this. I think the education system has to adapt to the students. Of course for mine, kid need more, routines, but the teacher is using the same routine with all the students and the anxiety in that room is just down For example, when a teacher is talking so loud, screaming always, I have troubles with that. I can concentrate and, but it's the same with her. The thing is they can say, Hey, can you lower thet? She cannot say that. And instead of that, she's go out not to the room. Respect, what the difference and then can you lower the tone and someone who is suffer going out to the room. I think it's the behavior, But not everybody has the time to make the interpretation of what is happening. Yep.

Domenic: 12:03

It's the label that kids get in high school so they have a label, oh, they're being disruptive, the whole classroom. Meanwhile, there's another kid over there throwing spitballs at a friend our child is doing something that's not typical of the class, but they know it's too loud and I'm gonna get the hell outta here. It's the labels in high school. But if you don't have the label, you don't get the funding. So then it's like, what do I do now? I'm between a rock and a hard place.

Alex: 12:26

If you don't have the diagnosis and you don't get money, then you don't get help.

Domenic: 12:30

That's where I think it all starts.'cause this child does something irregular in the classroom. Yeah, they're labeled. So they're pull'em outta the classroom, put'em in the resource room and let'em read something or sit there and watch TV shows or cartoons.

Alex: 12:44

Yeah.

Domenic: 12:45

But what happens is resource rooms in the main hallway, all the windows are wide open. So every kid walking by, they're go, oh look, it's one in that room. What the hell? Oh, that's the resource room. So I think Pepe, to your point, that's why the teachers like that. I mean, teachers do a lot of work, but then again, you have to understand like, hey, spitballs, she got up and walked outta the classroom. What is the difference

Alex: 13:09

yeah, it's tough.'cause it's just like when you look at, not to get well trying to be political or anything like that, but it's like the, teachers going on strike and stuff like that. A lot of the time they're fighting for more resources to help our kids and it, the powers that be, whatever you wanna say, government, whoever, it's like that, there's a huge issue of them just not giving them the resources that they're asking for. Because there are a lot of great teachers out there, but they don't, they may want to help, but there are, as you're saying, Tom, like dealing with spitball kids and then you're the, and then the next thing you know then you know the, the other kid, because of all the noise left and then they got a go and it's just, yeah, it's, I dunno, it's not easy.

Domenic: 13:54

No, it's not. we've been through it high school and public school.

Alex: 13:57

Yeah.

Domenic: 13:58

It's not easy for anybody I would love to go back to a high school and see what the system is like. Will I be surprised it's changed? I don't know. stories I hear, like I said it's very subtle, very small. people learn from everybody else, right? If you have champions, those champions have to grow to a bigger number than we have now. There's, it's a very small group of champions out there that really. Understand people with disabilities.

Alex: 14:25

Yeah.

Domenic: 14:26

Intellectual disabilities. they have to

Pepe: 14:28

really

Domenic: 14:29

work hard to get that child integrated in the classroom.

Pepe: 14:35

No, and, and you know. We found, of course, I, I know the easiest way to escape the responsibility to teach our our kids is saying, I don't have resources. Because we found teachers like that and we found teachers with no resources. Let, let me give you this example. We have a teacher asked, my daughter to talk about, um, a story of Canada. She knows the story. She know the map and the teacher help her say, okay, what is the way to do the presentation for that? And we did some videos. And the videos were really, really well. And she was, he and the drawing. She did the drawing. She did the coding. She get a note, she get a grade. She, she because, yeah. Then another teacher say she need to make a story about US and Canada situation. We ask, this could be an adaptation. Can we do this? No, she need to do it by herself. She need to talk in front of the group. No, and then we fail that class. No.

Alex: 16:03

Mm-hmm.

Pepe: 16:05

Same activity, different topic with the willingness for the teacher and the, the within this, the teacher, her work. the first one was really, really well because they are inside and then she has the idea and. I don't remember many things about the story. No, it's, it's everybody. We suffer with calculus. No, we have, I never in my life I use an, an, uh, formula to solve a situation with one of my colleagues or my manager. My budget never used that, and I don't remember. But, but I remember my teacher say, I wanna show you that you can think you can use your brain to solve it is, it is what we try.

Alex: 17:02

Mm-hmm.

Pepe: 17:02

And then we have another situation with career education. Career education is about life and the teacher, and this is the sad part that you say, Alexa, the curriculum for the teachers, I think they have just one course about. Disabilities.

Alex: 17:22

Yeah.

Pepe: 17:22

Or different, just one course.

Alex: 17:24

Yeah, that's what I mean. The, the funding's not there. Like it's just not there. Like you could get afterschool care or something like that. And the amount of money that offer, it's not even minimum wage. There's no inflationary increase. There's no, it's not real life funding it's frustrating. And I, and like I said, I know from talking to, friends of mine that are teachers and that's that sort of stuff. It's just sure. Fighting for more money and whatever, that's great. But like, it's, a lot of the time they're not asking for money. They're asking for resources to help and nobody gives it to'em.

Pepe: 17:54

Yeah. And I can believe that it is a situation that in a hundred years they don't get a, a smart solution. No. That those ministers who has a little like people there with really smart, that I can believe that they cannot provide better. It has to be a way, the thing is we need to find the people willing to help, willing to do the extra mile. Of course, teaching our kids is not the easiest. Of course that as a teacher was a person, you get discourage and you get, but they know that they need to ask 1, 2, 3, 4 fives, and then you get the system. You, you earn the confidence. You earn the trust. No. And then the kid is getting the confidence to, to trust on you. And then, and you have a good student. But we need that teacher who is willing to do the extra mile for,

Alex: 18:49

yeah, you're totally

Domenic: 18:49

I think it's the system that's broken.'cause teachers try really hard, the EAs trying really hard. It's just this whole system. It's gotta work as one unit. And I, and I don't see that working that way at all. It's crazy. It's like the system is not working, it's not helping. The teachers, it's not helping the EAs, it's not helping our kids. maybe it's the people up top. Maybe it's our federal government, maybe it's our local government. Fix it, it's taken so long to fix it.

Alex: 19:17

Yeah.

Domenic: 19:18

I mean, I just go by my experience 15 years, but whatever happened before that, before that and before that. Right. And you guys are experiencing it now, so

Pepe: 19:27

it,

Domenic: 19:27

it's gotta be a way of fixing it. It's not that bad. kids with intellectual disabilities, they can go to work. Mm-hmm. They go to university, give'em a chance. Right. Don't put the label on'em,

Marta: 19:38

If you could go back to the early days, what would you tell your younger self to motivate and help them get through those early years?

Domenic: 19:47

I could say buckle up'cause it would be a rough ride. It's, you can take that seatbelt off'cause things will smooth out.

Alex: 19:55

See, I think I'm at a different stage where it's like if I don't know.

Pepe: 19:58

Yeah.

Alex: 19:59

You know what I mean? It's just like, smoothing out. I hope so.

Domenic: 20:02

for us it was a rollercoaster ride the whole time. Now once you get at the end of that ride, it's like, oh, that wasn't too bad at all. Where we are now. Living on her own. Has friends. Yeah. She lives with community that she can talk to everybody Yeah. Knows everybody knows babies by name, knows pet's names. the community knows her. So it's rough rides to start. But it's smooth out in the end. And it does take time. And when I say rollercoaster, you'll have some peaks and valleys, it's like ride in the bike. You have two wheels in the back, you take'em off or you raise'em up then before you know it, there she goes. No train wheels. Hope that gives people hope.

Pepe: 20:48

You know what I will say is enjoy the time. Yeah. And, enjoy the ride because leave one day at a time because we have really, really bad days, but we have really good days. There are more good days than bad days.

Alex: 21:06

See it's the saying where it's like, stop and smell the roses once in a while.

Pepe: 21:09

And of course when we have a bad day, super intense and it's just like,

Alex: 21:14

yep.

Pepe: 21:14

But we have good days. what I will say is just one day at a time and enjoy every day the good days and the bad days because this will pass, as you say, Dominic.

Alex: 21:25

I would agree.

Domenic: 21:27

That's true. Just enjoy every day. Every moment. Yeah.

Alex: 21:30

Well, yeah. When possible.

Pepe: 21:31

exactly.

Alex: 21:32

to try to be present, to enjoy them because it means that much more because you're in a good moment from the intense days,

Pepe: 21:40

Yep.

Alex: 21:40

You know, craziness of it all,

Domenic: 21:41

This is the way it is. There is ways around it, and it will get better. It may look like crap right now, but it will get better. I'm not gonna say I hope I know it gets better. Unfortunately it's a lot more work than a typical child. So it's like people have a, a child without a intellectual disability. I think they have a hard too, because they have hopes and dreams for their child, and if those hopes and dreams don't happen, their life will be shattered.

Alex: 22:14

Mm-hmm.

Domenic: 22:16

And I have hopes and dreams. I do. And they're working out.

Alex: 22:21

Yeah.

Pepe: 22:22

intellectual disability. Everybody has a challenge.

Alex: 22:25

Yes.

Pepe: 22:26

What your child is.

Alex: 22:27

Yes.

Pepe: 22:28

Yeah.

Alex: 22:30

I don't have any last words. Sorry.

Pepe: 22:32

we can vent or we can just talk. Yeah. But nothing happened. But, what I want is it, is let's find the useful things that we can use to talk with a teacher, the principal, the vice principal, the resource teacher, the school district, this is the important stuff. Of course, you say super good. The expectations. For example, I know the fathers of some of my, friends at the university, the parents were really upset because they were really successful lawyers and accountants and my friends assigned to be psychologists, super disappointed and they lose the legacy. And that is another kind of, disappointment about the expectation of our kids I think, everybody has a mission. Every kid, every person has a mission. and as a parent, we want, oh, I see you are really good in math and I can see you working in NASA doing computers, but no, you want to be a. In a bakery because you love the bread and that is the part that you decide. I think that is the adjustment of those expectations. But those are my thoughts.

23:47

Thanks for being part of Real Conversations. Keep holding high expectations, building relationships, and keep moving towards regular, equitable, authentic lives. And remember, this work is harder in isolation. Stay connected. We'll see you next time. Bye for now.