Mindfulness in the Age of AI | Awareness, Focus & Digital Overload | Rashad | Holistic Happiness Club | S2EP01

In this deeply thought-provoking episode of Holistic Happiness Club, Akshay Tiwari sits down with Rashad — a computer science professor, startup mentor, mindfulness practitioner, and meditation guide — to explore mindfulness, awareness, and conscious living in the age of AI, digital distraction, and information overload.

This is not just a conversation about meditation.

It’s an exploration of what it means to stay human, self-aware, emotionally grounded, and mentally clear in a world constantly competing for our attention.

Together, they discuss:

• mindfulness and self-awareness
• meditation for beginners and overthinkers
• digital distraction and the attention economy
• AI overwhelm and technology burnout
• focus, attention, and mental clarity
• consciousness and awareness
• social media addiction and dopamine-driven habits
• emotional wellbeing and self-compassion
• mindful productivity and deep work
• staying grounded in fast-moving industries
• the difference between mindfulness and meditation
• how meditation changes perspective and attention

Rashad shares his personal journey from childhood curiosity about consciousness and reality to becoming both a computer science academic and a mindfulness practitioner. The conversation bridges science, philosophy, meditation, technology, and practical life wisdom in a way that feels grounded, relatable, and deeply human.

Some of the most powerful insights from this episode include:

• “Meditation develops our ability to notice.”
• “You are aware that you are aware.”
• “Distraction is good.”
• “You don’t need to know it all.”
• “There are no right answers.”

Whether you are a software engineer, entrepreneur, creator, student, working professional, or simply someone feeling mentally overwhelmed by the modern world, this episode offers practical wisdom for building inner peace, emotional resilience, focus, and conscious awareness.

If you’ve been struggling with:

• overthinking
• stress and anxiety
• lack of focus
• burnout
• mental noise
• brain fog
• constant distraction
• emotional overwhelm
• productivity pressure
• staying present

…this conversation will help you slow down, reflect, and reconnect with yourself.

Connect with Rashad:
Instagram: @aware.with.rashad

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Disclaimer: I do not accept any liability for any loss or damage incurred by you acting or not acting as a result of watching any of my publications. You acknowledge that you use the information I provide at your own risk. Do your research. Copyright Notice: This video and my YouTube channel contain dialogue, music, and images that are the property of the Holistic Happiness Club. You are authorized to share the video link and channel and embed this video in your website or others as long as a link back to my YouTube channel is provided. © Holistic Happiness Club

Transcript

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there was no experience of passage of time. There was no experience of space, no dimension at all, Your mind is looking. But who's controlling your awareness? Not you. mindfulness is when you know you're aware, not just aware. You're aware that you are aware, and then you actually have the capacity to sort of guide this awareness. meditation develops our ability to notice. It's like the art of notice. All right. Hey, Rashad. Welcome to Holistic Happiness Club. How are you? Hello. Hello, Akshay. Thank you. All good. Happy to be here. Yeah, it has been long time sin- since we have spoken, and a lot of things has happened. but let's stick with you, because it's all about you in this episode. So yeah, tell us a little bit about yourself. What do you do? What, have you been doing so far? right. So I'll, I'll go in three different, like, parts- Sure based on what I've been doing in my life so far. Sure. So, well, obviously my name is Rashad. currently I'm working as an assistant professor of computer science at, ADA University, which is in Baku, Azerbaijan, and this is my office. I'm still on campus. And, well, so I'm teaching computer science. That's like one part of my life. So I've got, my education in South Korea and, pretty much almost half of my life I've been living there, a bit more than 14 years. Wow. So I can say South Korea is like my second home with lots of friends, lots of people there. so that's like one direction of what I do, and at the university, another responsibility I have is to, help people with startups and innovation. So we have this thing called an innovation center, so I'm leading, that center and helping students to create their startups. The other part of my life has been in, business. Well, although my education was in computer science, but then when you live in different countries, sooner or later you end up thinking about international business, trade, and trends. That's true. Products. So I've been doing some of that and continue to do that, and, of course, in my case, it, has been connected to Korea, to things that are manufactured or made in Korea. Mm-hmm. And, the most important part for me of all of my activities, is actually in the third one, which is, mindfulness and, meditation in my case. Yeah, so that is something I've been interested in and sort of practicing in my, own way from my childhood years, I guess since less than 10 years old. but then- what we would call formal or more of a official meditation practice, that has started since 2007. And since 2018, I've been having my regular daily practices and learning more in, knowledge. And more recently, within the last two years, I've been, learning and training to become a teacher myself. So, these three are, like, the big directions in which my life has been, yeah, that's me. So I'll be happy to address, any of those. Sure. We will, we will go into all of those because we are talking with you and not a particular, vertical as of now. So quick follow-up with your introduction, that you said that there are three different parts that you do. So there is this mindfulness. Actually, we are more interested about that. Yeah. But yes, of course, everything that you do makes you a person. So how do you see this, I mean, dividing time and being in three different places, or it is just three different things that a person does and all are connected to one another? So the way I see it, from this day and age is, I think just like with the physical body where we have our DNA which forms us in a particular way- Mm-hmm there are, of course, all these influences from our genetics, the environment and so on. I believe in the same way as a person, as a personality, there is this process that we sometimes call individuation, right? There is a process of becoming who you are every moment to moment. And I start seeing and observing more and more that there we also have something like, call it DNA or call it some direction, which makes each of us a unique personality. So then in my case, as I've been following that sense, and what, I can call it in other words is the practice of being me, right? Being authentic and genuine to who I am. And so in that case, I actually don't separate these to three different parts. Yeah. I mean, I just separated it for comfort of explanation, but- Mm-hmm … but in reality, this is one life. so I tend to not separate work and life and different things. Yeah. So basically, in life, I have this tendency to want to grow, to want to develop, to want to expand, to connect to, others, to other human beings, and influence and learn from them. And so those ha- happen to be three different avenues from which I have been doing this, right? So- For, for the, for my job and for computer science, this was what I got interested as a kid. Mm. as many of us like the games, IT, and, all those kind of things. So that's more of a practical thing I was very curious about. And then when it comes to business, usually when we get to a certain age where we see that we could change something in the world, do something real, we want to go there. but then pretty soon I think we realize that all kind of knowledge is essentially knowledge about ourselves. Right. And, then this curiosity leads us to be curious about what's in, right? So the mental- the mentality, the things that drive us. We start asking different questions about why did I do that? Why did I do something else? So being conscious, sooner or later, I believe will take us there. So that's what happened to me. And, so that is why for me, the part with awareness, consciousness, and meditation has been the most profound, of all these. Yeah. So I want to know a little bit about your journey that, as you said, that as a kid you were introduced to meditation and mindfulness practices, and as a kid you got interested in computer science and technology. Getting interested, in technology, is, I think, makes more sense to me as a kid because we see fascinating gadgets and- Right of course, we can get attracted towards technology. But how did that happen that you got introduced or interested in, mindfulness and, meditation practices as a kid? And, how much do you think that has shaped in what you do right now in all three avenues, being introduced to mindfulness and, meditation as a kid? Because a lot of us has discovered, this thing, very, very late in life. I- if there is no, right or wrong, but I'm just asking from the point of view of, people in our age who are usually parents as well, to think about their kids as well. So what actually changes for a kid when he or she get, get to introduced to these practices? So from that perspective, and so I want to know your journey. What has happened? What makes you interested in that, and what has changed that? I mean, that's a really great question because you allow me to connect why, how these three actually are together. Mm-hmm. So the whole interest in computer science and meditation started from the same place, which is, curiosity about who are we, who am I, and what's this world, what are we doing here, right? So, it just happened to be that my grandfather was a physicist and, in my family the majority of people are either engineers or teachers and like, so similar fields. And so on one hand, I was always encouraged to think and ask questions and, you know, explore the world, learn a- learn about sciences. And so pretty quickly I've, started noticing and maybe reading about different theories like the string theory or- Mm-hmm … you know, be it some other ideas about what our world is. And then in parallel to that, in school and through folklore, we get exposed to different ideas about the Greek mythology, the Indian mythology, the Norse mythology. Then we have different religions. Like in my country, we have pretty much all religions to smaller or a larger extent. Yeah. And so I've kind of started exploring all of these avenues to try to find answers to the questions of what is this life, what, why are we here for, like, who am I, right? And, the, more of a scientific path led me to always more and more questions, right? And there is no end to it, and we know that, there probably will never be an end because we learn more and there are more questions. Yeah. And so when I first saw m- the first game on a computer, right away that fascinated me because I thought, "Oh, there is a world in my monitor," right? Yeah. There's an actual world there, but I see it in 2D. So I got curious, like how do you make it? How is it created? Who makes these things, right? So that started my curiosity to computer science, and was hoping that seeing how an artificial world like a game could be functioning could tell me about how this real world maybe is functions. And when I compared that, in parallel to some theories, of physics, and specifically in terms of philosophy, I think we call it cosmogony and cosmology about where the world comes from. Mm-hmm. And you do actually see many parallels, right? So as a kid, I mean, I'm not seeing it in a very serious scientific manner now, but just as a kid I thought, "All right, so there are these string theories, energies, vibrations, and, you know, waves, radio waves in the real life." And then I know it's pretty much the same happening in my computer, which is like processing and generating these things. Yeah. That pretty quickly got me interested in then who is seeing all this, right? Where is this coming from? And so somehow, in my family there was no insistence on any particular tradition, right? So I was encouraged to look into, let's say, the philosophy of Christianity, the philosophy of Islam, the philosophy of Buddhism, and, other sort of, traditions. Mm-hmm. And while I love and I respect all traditions, all cultures, what attracted me to more of a mindfulness and meditative practices is that there is a matter of faith and there is a matter of experience. So I respect both paths. but for me and my personality type, I love faith, I love people who believe, but I prefer some things where I can actually experience. So on one hand, I do respect and revere these great personalities who have had some great, insights and some holy books and so on. but then if as a human being, me, myself, I can discover things about me, about what I am, who I am, I would much rather try to learn that. So this was, like, what I realized very quickly before the age of 10, that, okay, meditative practices are something where I'm not required to believe in anything. Yeah. And I am, enabled to practice and learn without expectation of accepting this and that. Mm-hmm. And as far as I'm a human being, I can just try to learn, right? And, that was, like, the main thing. And as a kid, how in- it influenced me is it actually quickly teaches you to start noticing that there are perspectives.'Cause when we're children, we could easily believe that there are absolute truth and absolute lies, and we have authority figures like parents and grandparents and teachers. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But if you have even a little bit of a contemplative and awareness practice, in such case, I think you quickly realize that there are opinions, there are perspectives, there are points of view. And the more of those you can relate to and understand, the closer you get to whatever w- we can call, reality, so the truth of the matter. So I think that was the biggest effect of, getting introduced to these things early on. Sure. I will, touch base upon the second part of the question once again. but before that, I would like to ask that you said that you have been doing these practice or you have been practicing these since childhood, but more of a formal practice you started in 2017, right? So what happened in, time and how the practice was going, because a lot of time I meet with people and, to some extent I'm, I also started meditation and not mindfulness, but a certain type of meditation in my childhood. But I could not, you know, always continue that. It was always like I'm doing for some time, and then something is taking over, and then I'm forgetting that. And then after a few, months, I'm remembering that practice again, and I'm starting that again. And I'm sure that happens because I have met with people. It has happened with a lot of people as well, that people start, they might not be able to continue. So I'm more cur- curious in that, in this time that what happened between your childhood to, from your childhood to 2017, and what has happened in 2017 that made you to continue or formalize this practice and, you know, make it a daily routine? Right. So up until 2007, I was, just being very intuitive, right? Mm-hmm. sort of practicing just observing nature or myself or other people. And, like with a lot of people, things can sometimes start when you notice that, like if you just sit in a restaurant or a cafe or a classroom or elsewhere, you have, you may develop the tendency to observe people and notice how things are happening, and you start seeing patterns and, different behavioral issues. And we can't call this a formal practice at all, right? Right. but then, there were some little booklets or some books that my parents had at our house and, some sort of, maybe a TV show or something, I may have heard some from somewhere. So slowly I start developing this sense that, oh, there are people who actually do these things as a separate practice. Mm-hmm. They sit and observe, they do journaling and so on. So I was doing all this more, on a more of a intuitive, matter. Okay. Right? And then I, don't really know, how to tell this in a, clear way, so I'll just say what, actually happened. Mm-hmm. So I think I was about age of, maybe six or seven or s- some, some range of that. Mm-hmm. And I had a very strange and a peculiar experience one day. So what happened is I was playing with a cousin of mine in a countryside area where we were for a vacation, and at some point, I… Like, the, for external observers, it looked like, I either, like, fell down and got up and kept playing or something. But what happened for me is I actually, moved to totally other dimension, right? So- Mm-hmm … so basically, I, was a kid, right? So as a kid, I suddenly see that I'm at this different place. Okay. And I'll try to describe it to the best of my ability, but- Mm-hmm the experience was, there was no experience of passage of time. There was no experience of space, no dimension at all, and no colors, no nothing. so as a kid, I remember my first impulse was to move, to try to move forward. Mm-hmm. But there was no forward. Like, the dimension did not exist, all right? Mm-hmm. So I mean, I couldn't know what it is, what this thing is, and, I felt like I've spent a very long, duration of time there. Mm-hmm. But then later I was told that for external observer, it was just that, you know, I kinda fell down, got up, and kept playing or something like that. So I think this was one of those moments which got me very, very curious, right?'Cause- Mm-hmm … 'cause that kind of experience, it tells you that there's something about you, which is more of a, being conscious, being the observer, being the awareness, rather than just the physical body or what you think and so on. So of course, I couldn't explain it in these terms when I was a little kid, so I think this was the first thing that got me very interested in these sort of things. Then in 2007, when I was, 17, I… It was the first time I went abroad for my studies as an, bachelor student, and it just happened that I got stuck in an airport in Istanbul for three days. Mm-hmm. And when I was in the airport, there is not much to do. I spent all the money, and there are still two days to spend. And suddenly I remembered that there is this practice of watching your breath, right? And up until the entrance, the university entrance times, you know, we're all so busy with different exams and preparations and so on. And so there I was thinking that, "So I have these two days, three days. Let me just try and see what it is." Yeah. And so from that point, I first got the experience of, what we- normally call meditation- Right … which is when you sit or lay down and observe something, like for example breath. Mm-hmm. And, then forward to 2017 or '18, in that, 10 years I kept trying to learn, listening various lectures from different, teachers and traditions, reading some texts and learning about neuroscience and so on. And when I started my PhD in 2018, I was at this, university in Korea called KAIST, which stands for Korea Advanced Institute of Science and Technology. But then once I started my PhD, they simultaneously started, a contemplative, science research center. So this is a place where very experienced meditators and, neuroscientists, they come together and they, organize programs and they study the brain, and they study meditation, and their main focus was to create and establish non-religious evidence-based meditative practices. Mm-hmm. And while I was always looking for places where I could, start serious practice, formal daily practice, then this was like a blessing for me. So what I did is I started, attending every program, they held. And so also while I do gradu- I did graduate studies, the environment is very conducive,'cause I lived alone, in a dormitory room, and, I didn't have to work. I don't have to care about money, 'cause there is scholarship and, all that. So mostly there was lots of time for research and lots of time for self-exploration, and so I just used this as an opportunity. So I guess to answer your question specifically, first this childhood experience, then the realization that there are actual formal methods to practice. Mm. And then, thirdly, having the opportunity and meeting the right people who can teach you. And, the key point I think was that the people, the teachers that I met, they never asked for money. They never asked for me to revere them like a great guru or something. And, so I got a very high quality, instruction and teaching for nothing in exchange, right? So and when we read these old texts and stories, we, see that that is how it was supposed to be, right? Right. In the original. And so somehow I guess I got very lucky or blessed that I hap- happened to meet these people, and I'm very, very thankful to everyone at, KAIST and all the other people who I learned from. So there were some great individuals who I had the chance to learn and observe. All right. So I was saying that I will come back to the second part of the previous question, which was that how these practices do you think has helped you or, or anything? I mean, how they have changed you compared to the people who are not doing this? Right. So the biggest change is fo- the ability to form perspective. Mm. So- Right rather than rush with my own, quick opinion or with how I feel,'cause whenever anything happens, we may like it, dislike it, and so on. but then very quickly I learned that, everything is a perspective, everything, depends on the point of view. So the other thing was the ability to develop empathy. So these days, this word is very popular. Mm. People like to call themselves empath and, whatnot. Yeah. But I believe this is a, quality that all of us can develop, so the so-called, compassion and self-compassion and all that. so I think these two things, the ability to form a perspective, abstraction, and this helps a lot in research, in education, in business because it becomes easy for you to start noticing the views and opinions of others other than yourself, and you, you gain the ability to be self-critical as well. Not in a negative way, but kinda take a bird's-eye view and see- Mm … whether you're doing things correctly, right? Mm. So I think all of this can be summarized to the ability to observe yourself as a third person. Right.'Cause that is when you can be less biased and, less confused about what things are happening, and I think that's the biggest, help I've got early on- Mm'cause that helped me be a bit more independent, be clear about what I want. Right. All right. So, so far we w- we have been talking about mostly, the informal practices. can you talk a little bit about that, how these practices, used to look like? I mean, how they used to fit into your daily routines? So, you mean, like, not, formal meditation practice, but whatever- Yeah … intuitive things that- Yeah I would be doing? Yeah. So these were, different kinds. So one of my favorite ones, was to observe nature. So I, started noticing that when I'm in a forest near to the sea, ocean, or trees, nature basically- Mm-hmm I, started noticing that, like, you turn into this observation mode- And you just get pleasure of just seeing nature, you know, just observing what things are happening. Mm-hmm. And, so I noticed that if I normally have a certain attention span, when I'm out there and giving my full attention to what's happening, then the whole noise in, the mind gets quiet, and I'm able to be here now very grounded observing the nature. So I used to do that a lot. So even when I was in a city, with access to a river or to a sea or to ocean, I would probably go two, three times in a week at least just to be near the water and see the water, observe what's happening. That would help me a lot. the other thing is, to observe, dynamics in social circumstances. Mm-hmm. So I would just go and, sit, be it some… could be library, could be a cafe, could be a certain family gathering or whatever, and, if I get the opportunity to stay quiet, silent, and just notice why and how people are doing certain things, that was another. And, also one, interesting practice I did was, drawing or, doing some sort of writing but in a slow almost calligraphic way. Mm-hmm.'cause, when you get some stress or some distractions, focusing on one thing and doing some physical work, that really helps. And so, mostly it was these things, plus, the more closer to meditation sort of a practice was observing my body. So, what I mean by that- Mm … we all have the ability of feeling what's happening inside or with, our system, and I think we call this as, interoception, so the ability to see what's, happening on the inside. So I'd be always very curious to just notice, like, what do I feel in my body? How does my breath feel? And, how do I feel when I lay down? How does it feel to walk? How does it feel to do different things? but this did not really take a form of something official that you could call a body scan or something. Mm-hmm. I was doing it on a very intuitive way. Mm-hmm. And also there was no component of controlling anything. Mm-hmm. It was just observing. Mm-hmm. Right? So these are some things I could remember from early on. Sure. so now we are moving a little into formal, ways. before that, nowadays, a lot of, mindfulness expert or so-called expert as well are there, and everyone has their own definition of mindfulness. So how do you see mindfulness? What actually it is? And, yeah, let's start from there, that how, do you see mindfulness? Sure. So I think there is a, very well-known issue of- Problems with translation. Right. Because even the word itself, mindfulness, is like, sounds like the mind is full. While it's not really there. Yeah. And, w- we may have heard about, Jon Kabat-Zinn, who's the person who sort of pioneered bringing the practices from Asia to, US and the West. Yeah. So I really prefer, the expressions in languages where mind and heart are expressed by the same word. So if we look at many lang- many traditions and cultures where these meditative practices are originating from or very deeply practiced, the words they use for the mind, for the heart, for the soul sometimes are the same words. Yeah. And I really prefer that approach because I think as a humans, we are a holistic system rather than, different parts. Yes. Right? So in that sense, for me, what normally is called mindfulness, is more about being aware, right? But not just aware, with the ability of directing this awareness. because even when we are scrolling, someone watching TikTok or Reels or whatever, you are being aware, right? Your mind is looking. But who's controlling your awareness? Not you. You are being led by algorithms and by other factors. So I would say mindfulness is when you know you're aware, not just aware. You're aware that you are aware, and then you actually have the capacity to sort of guide this awareness. Not force, but at least guide. And when you notice it's not where, is beneficial for you, you can gently bring it back to where you think it should be, right? Mm-hmm. So for me, that would be mindfulness, basically awareness of what's happening. And, h- how about, meditation? I mean, how do you see that? I- it- it's the, two sides of the same coin, or you separate them? I mean, for people who thinks that, who thinks differently in terms of practices that, okay, mindfulness is this, or meditation is, focusing on your breath maybe, and mindfulness is just, you know, observing something. In terms of practices, how do you see? Or it, is the same, as I said, two sides of the same coin? So when we say meditation, people understand lots and lots of different things. Yes. And, there are types of meditative practices which are m- Observation only, nothing else. Yeah. So, maybe many have heard about various Vipassana retreats. Mm-hmm. the, the ones started by Goenka and other people and so on. Mm-hmm. So these are great, and they're … Th- really what they do is just observing, right? Yeah. But I prefer more of a technical definition, that is quite similar to the classical, traditional- Mm-hmm yoga definition. Mm-hmm. And so I would define meditation as attention that is maintained on a single, object. Mm-hmm. And this object could be anything. It can be an actual physical object. It could be an internal object. It could be breath. Mm-hmm. So then when we observe anything, in the end it takes a form of a thought. So if, even if I take whatever, like an apple or something, and I keep looking and keeping my attention on that, in my mind it's the image of the apple, not the real apple, right? Yeah. So I would technically define meditation as, when we maintain our, our consciousness and awareness with a single thought only. Mm-hmm. And this is a very technical thing. Mm-hmm. In simple terms is when your whole attention span is occupied with one thing and one thing only. Yeah. And plus, if you have the capacity, if you've developed the capacity to not be distracted. So let's say if someone is observing one thing but keeps constantly getting distracted and coming back, this is not really a state of meditation. So meditation is a state of mind, state of consciousness. So rather, what we normally call meditation is practice- Mm-hmm … is, is sort of a preparation for the actual meditative state. Yeah. So when someone says, "I am meditating"- Mm-hmm … usually what they mean is they try to keep their attention on the breath or something. Mm-hmm. But of course, we get distracted, and we come back, and we come back. So this is more of a, that would be more of a attention training. Okay. not the meditative state itself. Right. Right? So that's how I would differentiate the two. Sure. Um, I specifically asked this question because a lot of beginner, and, e- not even beginner, there, there are people who have been trying to meditate or doing these meditative practice, they also, p- Get distracted. I think we all can, get distracted at some point in time that we are, trying to meditate and something else comes in mind. a great example that, that is coming to my mind is from the Kung Fu Panda movie, the latest one. He's, he tries to meditate, and he's like, "Inner peace, inner peace." Yes. And then it turns out to be, "Dinner, please. Dinner, please." so yeah. uh, but it, in reality also, it happens, and a lot of people just, leave that because, "Hey, it's not for me. I'm not able to pay attention to one thing." So, anything for them, uh, for people who are leaving this because they are not able to keep the attention on one object or one thing? So the first thing I would say, meditating is not about time. So- Mm … it's not about how long you meditate. Mm. So I also see and meet people who brag or show off that they meditate for an hour, and two, and three. that's not what meditation is about. Surely, even one minute, three minutes, or five minutes of when you can really maintain your attention on a single object is much more valuable for your development, rather than doing and sitting for hours. saying that, distraction is totally fine. It's actually during the distraction that we learn, that we get better. So I would think of the, analogy of training a muscle. So when we are in the gym and we're training, we don't really train too much when we hold the weight up, and we don't train too much when the weight is down. It is when we're moving that we train. Mm-hmm. So then in meditation, we also train our mind exactly when we get distracted. So in that sense, distraction is good. It's great. So we get distracted, we notice, we come back, and it is in that gap that our meditation progresses. Mm. Because in time, this distraction, if it was long, then it gets smaller and shorter and shorter and shorter, and at some point, you're at the point, right? You don't get very distracted. Mm. And that is when real meditation, practice starts. And so I would say it's great that you get distracted. The fact that you notice you're being distracted means you're doing- Exactly right. Yeah. so I think it's totally fine, and being distracted is great. It's just about noticing it, being non-judgmental, and this is why we do it, because we want to practice distraction and coming back from distraction. So I would say it's good to be distracted. Sure. Okay, moving on that when you started your formal practices, in 2017, have you seen or noticed any change? That's one part of the question, and second part of the question that you are also in the, technology industry, which is very, very fast-moving, and especially after 2022, I think it's fa- moving even faster after, uh, AI has been introduced to the new- common people. Yeah. So yeah. So the fast-moving, or the very competitive industry that you have to keep up with, so y- that is one vertical that you deal in. And, how… Do these things help, like mindfulness? because I get to hear from people, because I'm also in the same industry, I get to hear from people that it is so much that I'm not having time to do any of my practices. So anything, like does this help in this, uh, uh, a- area of your life as well, or in any other area of your, of, of life as well? So I'll start with changes. So actually, there are lots of changes. Lots of changes that others notice and you notice yourself. Mm-hmm. So with a maintained and continuous, practice of, meditation, the first thing that changes, you become very observant. Uh, you start noticing things. And it's always hardest in the beginning'cause- Mm many people when they start meditating and when things go well, then the first thing they will notice, the amount of noise and thoughts in their mind will get more, not less. Yeah. And why we experience that is because th- those thoughts and noise was always there. You just never noticed it. Yes. And now that we develop our ability to notice, you s- we start seeing things, right? And just like with any other, uh, resources, like money, like power, uh, like influence, having the resource of attention, which is a great resource, will simply amplify what you already are. So if I'm someone who's very miserable, and then suddenly I develop my concentration and meditation, chances are at first I will get a bit more miserable. Mm-hmm. If I'm someone who's already very happy and grateful and, uh, like a, a positive person, chances are meditation will allow me to get even more grateful and more positive because- Basically, meditation develops our ability to notice. It's like the art of notice. Mm. So if in my life I was conditioned and trained to notice negativity, see problems, see issues, then I'll see more of them. Mm. if I'm trained to see a lot of good things and gratitude and positivity, I'll see more of that, right? Mm-hmm. And so then the real advantage with further meditation practice becomes that you notice you could actually change it. You don't have to be defined by others. And so meditation allows us to see how we are conditioned, how we are influenced by our background, family, society, expectations and, and so on. And it's not a bad thing. It's part of being human. Mm. but you learn that you have control. You can actually choose where to put your attention and what to do with it, and that's where freedom really starts. Mm. Now, coming to technology, that is a great example because that's, like, fastest changing field these days. Yes. Early on, those of us who started in, technology in early 2000s or even before that, then we have this older, like, maybe perception where, let's say if we talk about software development, you start with learning programming, then you do a lot of programs and, you build products. At some day you become maybe a project manager, and then you become an architect and, and so on and so forth. Yeah. So we may have this, expectation that I'm supposed to know it all. Mm. If there's something new comes up, I must know that, and so on. so I think this modern, fast-changing, situation teaches us exactly that, that no, we don't need to know it all, right? So as soon as we accept that, then where meditation comes in is, this sense of service, sense of being of service to others, and sense of being contributing, useful person. So the way I handle it is I don't try to l- know it all. Mm. I don't try to be up to date on everything 'cause I can't do it. Mm-hmm. I try to see… 'Cause in the end, all technology, all sort of softwares, IT, all of it is to serve humanity, to serve- Mm other fellow human beings. Right. So what I do is I try to figure out where do I want to serve humanity, and so be it teaching, be it, programming, be it doing something else. Then quite quickly it becomes obvious what are the tools that I most need to master, what are the skills that I most need to keep upgraded, where can I do the most impact. And this is where meditation and mindfulness and awareness comes in because without really being self-aware and aware of the situation, it could be very tough to be confused, by money, to be confused by opportunities because the more technology we have, the more opportunities we have. Yeah. And on one hand it's great, it's amazing. Mm-hmm. But on the other hand, choosing also becomes a problem. Choice is a, is a big thing. Decision-making is a big thing. Paradox of choice. Yes. Yes. And so I've noticed that, proper meditative, practices will help us notice why do people look for me, who searches me, who benefits me d- from me the most. Mm-hmm. And I would say I was never shy about directly asking people about it. So with- while risking to get a negative answer- Mm-hmm I would still be willing to ask people, "Can you tell me how, if ever, I was useful to you?" Or, "How could I be useful to you?" I even remember I've… I used to do surv- surveys on Instagram or among my colleagues. Mm-hmm. So in one of the companies that I was working, it was called, Air Premia. It's an airline in South Korea, and my job there was being a, a project manager and, acting as a liaison between the IT team and, the business unit. And so within a month or so after I started working, I made a Google Form and survey and sent it to everyone and told them that it's anonymous. I'm not gonna know who wrote what, but I really need you to tell me how can I be a better colleague, what am I doing right, what am I doing wrong, or how can I be more useful to you. And people… I didn't expect this, but people were surprised because apparently, uh, it's not really done unless it's your professional, evaluation, right, for salary or something. And so I think for me, meditating has helped to have this level of awareness, and it enabled me to look and search where I could be useful. Mm-hmm. And, uh, that's how I manage this whole technology thing, right? Even now, every day things change. Like- Of course in AI every month we get new tools, new platforms. It- it's literally impossible to follow up with all of this. Right. Exactly. And there are influencers who, drop one update on a daily basis on AI field that, okay- Yeah … this is the new tool that has come up. And they have been doing for so many days, and it's still going on. So yeah, it's, uh, really kind of impossible to keep up with everything. If I may, if I may, I, I mean- Mm-hmm … you touched a great point. I think that's one thing where we can be confused because when we see these people who post something new every day, we may get an impression that they know it very well. Right. Uh, that's not true. That their job is to update you about updates. All right? So that's their job, and they're good at it, and thanks to them for doing that. Mm-hmm. Uh, it's good to keep us informed. But if you really talk to the people who make the most money using AI- Mm-hmm … uh, who make the most impactful software using AI, you'll quickly notice that they have two, three main tools that they use regularly. Right. And whenever there is an update, they simply change one tool for the other. Mm-hmm. They keep doing the same thing. Yeah. It's not like they're on the lookout to know everything. Yeah. That's not what they do. Right. All right, coming to the, the third vertical of your life, um, where you have said that now you have started teaching people also to be aware and be more observant or simply put that being more mindful about it. So how, how did that happen, and, what, prompted you to take this path, and how is it going, and what kind of experiences you have had so far? So prickly, quick, pretty quickly early on, you get into these conversations where people ask questions, and you have discussions with friends- Mm-hmm and you share honestly, what you think and what your experience is. Right. And in my case, what started happening is a person who asked something started coming back, right? they would ask to have another meeting in a week. Mm-hmm. And we would continue, uh, talking. And somehow, uh, that sort of an image may develop around you- And then, uh, people meet for tea, for coffee. You have these discussions. Mm-hmm. But, uh, never have I imagined that I would someday, maybe helping someone or guiding someone to start, meditating because I used to think that, that is something, uh, like, uh, only some Zen monks do and, like, some, what do you call, sannyasins or- Yeah … famous, like, yogis do. Mm-hmm. So I've never really tried to do it, and I was careful about, uh, doing it too because it's a responsibility, uh, to tell someone and guide someone. But while I was, uh, doing my PhD at, uh, KAIST, and there were these formal programs that were, uh, led by a very famous Zen, uh, monk and professor in Korea, so his name is, uh, Miseon Wando King. Uh, and so he's my teacher, and, uh, in his case, he's a person of two worlds. So he's a Zen monk, formal Zen monk from childhood, and a very, very prominently educated person. He holds a PhD from Oxford at the same time, and he has studied all traditions very thoroughly. he has practice in various, traditions. And so especially seeing people like him and others, it makes, it made me very, very careful about, uh, like, this whole business of sharing with someone. And so while there are people like this, whenever somebody asks a question, what I would do is I would redirect them. But as you know, people can be busy, so sometimes I would ask on their behalf and clarify something and share back. And, uh, what started happening next is since I've been, uh, meeting my teacher regularly and having participating in all these sessions and programs, after about, like, two or three years, they started inviting me as a teaching assistant to these meditation courses. Mm. So the university started supporting regular sessions for any students and faculty who want to learn some, comple- contemplative practices, and I started as a fellow, like, participant, then a teaching assistant. Mm. And slowly I noticed that, you know, I may be able to- slightly, share some experiences or maybe, guide people in terms of what I've been going through, right? And after some time, my teacher also gave me a hint or suggestion that, you know, it's not a bad idea since you, you do have, this personal experience, and then it seems you do have the capacity to, sort of formalize it in terms of, like, a expression.'Cause there are some great practitioners who don't like communicating- Right … or whose verbal skills or eloquence is not, uh, where they want to actually share it. So having these hints and suggestions, I decided to, keep going and, like, try to get the official permission to teach, right? And I started going to all the programs and, various retreats up to a point where I was permitted, to, like, meet some people and share. Still I was very careful, and I didn't really do that. Mm-hmm. What I did is I started an Instagram page where I would simply share my experience, my thoughts, and ideas. And after some time, there were some friends of mine, who have been trying to meditate or learn meditation for years- Mm-hmm … and they've, somehow not managed to do it properly. They didn't find someone to guide them, or they ended up meeting groups who are more into experience hunting- Mm-hmm… and not really, meditating properly. And, so we started meeting, like, an hour every week, and, at some point they started requesting me that, "Hey, can you make it something regular? Like, I actually want to do this officially." And, it was very difficult because, uh, some people then started suggesting that they would like to pay for it, right?'Cause they s- they, they were saying that, "Okay, you're, spending your time and energy, so we think it's only appropriate." But I was very, conflicted because none of these great people who I learned from ever asked me for anything. Right. It actually was the reverse. I got some gifts, some helps as a student, rather than giving something, right? Mm-hmm. And so it was, a very difficult, process to decide how to get it done. And so through, through these, experiences- I've, come to notice that rather than positioning myself as a teacher, what I do is I just say that I'm a practitioner of meditation. Mm-hmm. This is what I do. All I can do is share what I practice. All I can do is share things that have been confirmed by evidence, or we have some medical knowledge about how things work. Mm-hmm. what I do is I only share those things that are very clear, very simple, that I have experience with, that have been tested in tradition. Mm-hmm. So the condition is I have to have the experience myself. this practice should be coming from some very, very rooted tradition, be it, Buddhist tradition, be it any other tradition- Mm-hmm be it from yoga, but it has to be tested for thousands of years, right? And then it should also have some evidence from medicine, from science, from, evidence-based approaches that it actually works. Mm-hmm. And, uh, let me tell you, like, some very simple example. Like, from the medical evidence, we know that, for physiological reasons, when we inhale, our heart starts beating slightly faster, and when we exhale, the heart starts beating slightly slower. So then we have medical evidence that if you do long sighs or if you prolong your exhale, then you get relaxation, right? Mm-hmm. So there are some things that are very obvious, and it also happens to be that the most effective things are the simple things, the very not complicated things. Yeah. And so I've, I've started that way, and I'm continuing now with, whoever wants to, hear and meet, and I do my best to hold some open sessions at the university. So far, I think we've done five. and the way I do it is I announce it, and whoever, students, faculty, administrative, people, and sometimes even people, the general public from outside the university would come to these sessions, and we discuss, we share, we practice together. So that's how I keep going with it. Okay. That has led me to an inter- interesting question, before I move to the last part of this episode on this podcast. The question is that how do you see and how much important it is a role of a teacher in someone who wants to start these practices, be it a kid, be it a professional, or be it a student, in their higher studies? because there are various stages of life, and when you are on different stages of life, you get less and less teachable sometimes. And I have seen people that who, I mean, try to do So many thing because a lot of things are available online, most of them are conflicting, and you end up confused sometimes. But even if y- if th- things are not available online, let's say, and if you are following one book or… So wh- what, what was the importance, uh, of a teacher in one's journey? And, yeah, l- let's go from there, that what's the importance of teacher in one's journey in my opinion? So, so I believe having a competent teacher is extremely important. Mm-hmm. It is, a requirement, I think right now. Right. why? because whenever there is anything that can have an effect on our wellbeing, on our health, mental state, we have to be very, very careful.'cause mental states and states of mind is something very, very delicate. So as you said just now, there are lots of different techniques and videos online, but for example, if somebody has a s- a strong panic attack- Mm-hmm and usually panic attacks, people experience this in the central line of their body. Mm-hmm. And so for someone who doesn't know, uh, or doesn't have any background knowledge, they would easily suggest them to focus on their breath or something, and this will trigger a panic attack. Mm-hmm. So, so this is just one example, but- Mm if you read about it, there is lots of harm that may come to people by practicing, uh, random things. Right. Right? And so this is one reason. On the other hand, I am not, supporting the structure where the teacher is, highly revered, almost like a religious figure or like this, some extreme, gurus disciple relationship. Because in the end, nobody can go your path except you yourself, so it is your job to do it. So when I say teacher, what I mean more of a is a guide, is a friend. Mm-hmm. Is someone you respect and trust enough to share what they have done, and so that you trust them enough, you feel safe and comfortable enough that they wouldn't be lying, they wouldn't be confusing you, they wouldn't be extorting money from you. Mm-hmm. And also, it's important to notice that whoever you're trying to learn from doesn't have these ambitions of gathering a following or a culty kind of a things. You can feel that- Yeah … pretty quickly. Right, right. And so as far as it's a respectable and a reliable person, uh, you can probably start asking around. Uh, but in the end, you, uh, p- we have to remember that everyone Is responsible for themselves. So the number one person who's responsible for your health, for your condition is you, and for me, it's me. So I have to take this responsibility of scanning and vetting and, uh, studying someone from who I want to learn. And the final part, I would say it is a requirement that I insist on, that when I want to learn something, I need to make sure that the person I'm learning from has already done that, has already achieved what I want to achieve, and we should be very open about it. We should ask them. Plus, we should ask them, "Can you get me there as well?" Right? So when I saw a person who is non-conflicting, who is very good in communication, who is very loving and very open, that's exactly what I did. I clearly asked my teacher that, "You know, I admire the way you talk to people. Uh, if normal conversation feels like people want to win or lose or be the right one, I don't feel that in conversation with you. So how can I become someone like that? Do you know any methodology to do that?" Mm. Uh, 'cause there could be a person who is very loving, very kind, but they don't know how to share it with others. Mm. They just are. Mm. And so these would be the main points I would look for. And, you can go up to some point on your own, which is also fine- Yeah because, uh, it's life, and we can't always, meet someone and follow someone. but I believe, if possible, it's best to find a reliable person to guide. Yeah. All right. Very well said, about having a guide or a teacher, and not necessarily some avatar who came from heaven who will guide you. Yes. Someone like that. So yeah, now we are in the last, leg. So in the last leg, I have prepared for some rapid fires- Sure for you. Right. So no overthinking, just, whatever comes, comes to your mind. So shall we start? Sure. Sure. Okay, so number one, Rashad is a morning person or a night owl? A morning person by choice- Mm night owl by nature. Okay. Yeah, that's a part of the job. Okay. So meditation app or no app? No app. Okay. And why is that? apps create dependency. Mm. They might be okay to start. Mm. and, you know, it, it doesn't lead to where I think meditation should lead, but it's great to start. It's great to start. Oh, noted. Okay. One word to describe the mental health of the world right now. Confusion Okay. Yeah, very well said. Okay, most overrated productivity advice you keep hearing? Hmm. You mean, like, uh, in terms of business productivity? Yes. Say, I'd say that is keep grinding, keep doing- Hustling … no sleep. Hustling, that is the worst. Yeah. Yeah. It has more disadvantage than advantage, I feel. Yes. Yes. Okay, a book that genuinely, changed how you think or may not have changed how you think, but has a lot of impact on you. right. So let me actually, tell you the precise, title probably because- Mm-hmm this book is on, mindfulness and compassion. Mm-hmm. Right? So if I may have just a second, I'll give you the specific title. So it's a book, titled The Mindful Path to Self-Compassion. The Mindful Path to Self-Compassion. The

Mindful Path to Self-Compassion: 59:44

Freeing Yourself From Distractive Thoughts and Emotions by Christopher Germer, right? Mm-hmm. And this is a great book. I would recommend it to everyone. I haven't read it, so yeah. I'll keep… I'll add one in my reading list. Sure. Phone first thing in the morning, yes or no? sorry? Phone first thing in the morning? definitely not. Definitely. And last thing in the night? Hopefully not. Hopefully not. Okay. That's an honest answer. I love that. Yeah. Okay. If mindfulness were a sport, what sport it would be? Oh, it would probably be, like, professional mountain climbing. Okay. And how do you do, draw these parallels? Well, because there's always the easy valleys where you need to walk and be stable, and then there are moments when you need to- Oh really go up, but you can't stop. Right. You need to keep going. Right. Right? Right. And, and in terms of consistency and resilience that it requires. Of course. Very nice. Okay. What do you do when you lose focus or sometimes feel overwhelmed? I stop. I stop and reflect, and, um, there is this three S thing that I learned, from my teacher. three S stands for stop, smile, see. Okay. Meaning that I stop I bring a smile, and I remember everything I'm grateful for, and then I see my situation again. I look at it again. Mm-hmm. And then always I will see different size, different directions, right? Mm-hmm. And if you would allow me, I would like to also share a very quick practical- Sure so usually, if we all just pay attention to how we feel ourselves in the body- Mm … when we're distracted, we may kind of feel like out of the body, in a sense. We're not really present in the body. Mm. So one thing that works very quickly is if we feel like I'm coming back to my body, and then this may be interesting or strange, but if you just try to bring your attention to the front of your body, specifically your face and, the frontal part of the body- Mm as soon as we do this, we will feel very much present here, now, and, engaged. So specifically bringing the attention to the front and face and, rather than the backside of our, body. So it just happens that when we are more into ruminating and thinking and something, this awareness goes more to the backside of our body, to, to the behind of our head and neck. And as soon as we bring our attention to the frontal part, somehow we happen to be present here and now. So I think that could be helpful for many people. Wow. Okay. One thing you wish you had learned 10 years earlier. There are no right answers. Wow. That's a good one, actually. Yeah. That changes a lot of thing in, the daily life as well as professional life, I guess. Yeah. I think, to me, it's connected to the misbelief rather- Mm-hmm that for everything there is a right and correct answer, and there is someone who knows it, and you can- Mm you can figure it out by studying or learning more. Mm. While that may be true for some things- Right … uh, for most important things in life, there is no perfect or right answer, and it is more important to develop the abilities to be in touch with what will you want, what your gut feelings are, what your goals are, what your real opportunities are, and then having the courage of making choice, making decisions- Mm rather than endlessly looking for that perfect thing. Right. Okay, the last one in the rapid fire. Last thing that made you genuinely laugh. Um, it was, it was actually a s- sunrise for me. Sunrise made you laugh? Okay. Yes. I was just, you know, there and, There's… I was sort of preoccupied with some stress and some thoughts about my work and some projects and so on, and then suddenly you see the sunrise, and it's so beautiful, and it brings you back to the moment here and now. Yeah. And it, it made me laugh about what I was so worried about, you know, just a moment ago. And then you just become very present, and life is much better, and you're positive. Yeah, I can feel that. I can feel that. Okay. Okay, last two things. So second last is people who are hearing you, I'm sure they would want to come to you for more questions if they have, but if somebody wants to start now or… with anything, and want to feel some change in their life, what small thing they can, they can start with? In terms of- What they can do. Yeah… mindfulness or maybe- In terms of mindfulness. Yeah. Hm. I would say… May I say two things? Sure. So, so the first, I think the biggest problem, most of us face these days is this self-critical and negative voice or opinion of ourselves. Mm-hmm. And so the first practice I would recommend is training ourselves to notice when this self-negativity or critical thinking, negative thinking comes up, this negative voice in the head, and in advance, we prepare a list of things we are grateful for, we're thankful for, a list of things we're happy about ourselves. Mm-hmm. Some great things about us. Maybe so- whatever you can find. And so whenever you get this thought of negativity or something, don't suppress it. Don't push it down. Don't negate it. Just allow yourself to switch your opinion from these thoughts to that list that you prepared in advance, things you're grateful for. And this could be a great attention practice because it will train our circuits in our brain to be… to go from negativity to positivity. Wow. And, uh, the second thing I would recommend is to learn to simply slow down and sit or stand, doesn't matter, but develop a habit of just stopping and doing nothing. Okay. And, uh, it's important to not confuse doing nothing with suppressing things. Mm-hmm. Doing nothing meaning to not intentionally do something. Mm-hmm. Like, some people will notice if they try to sit quietly or stand or lay down, suddenly their legs will be jittery. Their shoulder will move. That is fine. Uh, what I'm trying to say is develop a practice, a minute, five minutes per day where you simply go quiet and do not intentionally do anything. Just notice, see what's happening. I think these two are great practices for literally anyone, uh, that you can get started with. Awesome. Thank you so much, Rashad, for your time. Thank you. Thank you, Akshay. It was great time and great- And before we wrap up, I would like to… I mean, people who would like to reach out to you, where they can reach out to you? I mean, is Instagram or any other, uh, place? Yeah, I think the easiest would be, uh, Instagram. Uh, it's, uh, aware.with.rashad. Yeah. my name. And yeah, I'll be happy to reach out to communicate, to talk and- Sure… hopefully I can be helpful. I, I'm sure that you will be helpful, I'm sure. And thank you so much once again for your time. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you for inviting me. Yeah. it's my pleasure that you are here, and I hope to see you once again, very soon, sometimes whenever you have time. Sure. And we will talk about things that we have discussed today, but, maybe we'll pick one or two things, and we'll dive deeper into them, and we'll try to uncover some of that, uh, are, are there and that creates confusion in people's mind. Was great pleasure. Was great pleasure. I would love that. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.