Susan Madsen: A Vision for the Future of Utah

Ever wondered how a woman from a conservative family with six brothers becomes a leading voice in women's leadership? In this episode of Elevate, we sit down with Susan Madsen, the trailblazing founding director of the Utah Women Leadership Project. Susan opens up about her remarkable journey, sharing personal insights from her upbringing to her transition from Utah Valley University to Utah State University. Her story is a testament to the power of resilience, research, and community engagement in driving statewide missions that empower Utah girls and women.

We also dive into the transformative role of mentors and role models in women's leadership journeys. Hear firsthand how those small, pivotal moments with influential figures can shape professional paths and inspire growth. We discuss the nuanced differences between mentoring and coaching, and the importance of male allies in fostering an inclusive environment. This conversation highlights how meaningful interactions, no matter how brief, can offer crucial insights and propel personal development.

The episode rounds out with a look at the shifting landscape of modern leadership. From teaching a seven-week leadership course to exploring the generational differences in leadership expectations, we highlight the younger generation's preference for authenticity, work-life balance, and flexibility. Initiatives like the Elevate Her Challenge are paving the way for more inclusive leadership roles. Join us to understand how these efforts are creating a more diverse and thriving future for both corporate and political spheres, recognizing everyone's contributions to this inspiring cause.

https://www.usu.edu/uwlp

https://www.usu.edu/uwlp/a-bolder-way-forward/overview

www.wliut.com
@utwomenleaders

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:05

Welcome to Elevate a Women's Leadership Institute podcast, where we showcase stories, celebrate successes and shift culture. All right, welcome to another episode of Elevate a Women's Leadership Institute podcast. We are so pleased today to have Susan Madsen with us. She is the founding director of the Utah Women Leadership Project and the inaugural Karen Haight Huntsman Endowed Professor of Leadership.

Speaker 2 0:33

Got it.

Speaker 1 0:34

Yes, I just told her her bio would be very long. She's so accomplished, but wanted to hit on a couple highlights. Thank you for coming today, spending some time with us on a couple highlights. Thank you for coming today, spending some time with us. I'd love you to just introduce yourself and what you would claim about yourself before we begin and maybe share something with our audience personal that they might not know about you.

Speaker 2 0:54

Well, I have actually been in Utah for about 23, 24 years. I went to BYU and lived here when I was young. I went to BYU and lived here when I was young, but then in 2002, started at UVU. So I was at Utah Valley University for 18 years in the Woodbury School of Business and really have taught management and human resources and leadership.

Speaker 2 1:21

Leadership is my big topic. And then four years ago shifted, started the Utah Women in Leadership Project at UVU in 2009. And then four years ago, shifted up to Utah State University. I live in Bountiful, not in Logan, because my work is statewide, and I loved the shift, even though I loved Utah Valley University, because Utah State University is a statewide campus with statewide campuses, with extension and so forth, and so we work with people all over Utah, every county, get into all communities, and that's really important for the work we're doing with the Utah Women in Leadership Project. So I'm still my main paid work is being a professor.

Speaker 2 2:10

So, I teach a couple of classes a year but when I shifted to Utah State University, the whole project, the Utah Women in Leadership Project, which is a movement and a resource hub to really strengthen the impact of Utah girls and women so that's what I'm doing.

Speaker 2 2:29

I spend a lot of time doing that and especially, I know we're going to talk about a boulder wave forward. That's a big chunk of my time. But also appreciate the research and different things. Most of the research I'm even doing. I've just published a global book on the latest research around women and leadership, but most of my work now is research and other work related to Utah and girls and women.

Speaker 1 2:57

Yeah, Thank you for that. I think it was pretty recently that I realized Utah State is like that's their mission right To be statewide, which is why they have so many land grants, land grant yeah. I think that's pretty cool that we have an institution like that, and the shift to be there so you can be statewide was probably pretty strategic.

Speaker 2 3:18

And I'll tell you, I mean every single county has representatives and extension.

Speaker 1 3:23

Yes.

Speaker 2 3:23

And their goal is to get out in the community and provide. From history it's more agriculture and different kinds of things and preservation, they call it, or bottling, canning fruit and different things like that. But they've brought in business and different things, so they just welcomed the Utah Women in Leadership Project to there. And then, of course, I'm a professor in the Huntsman School of Business. Yes, and so that's love partnering there as well, yeah.

Speaker 1 3:53

Yeah, very good, thank you. So I would like to take us back and kind of expand the view a bit and say give us a little bit of landscape of Susan, like how were you growing up? What were your aspirations? Right, because the whole movement of women in leadership in this state is to help younger women see what it looks like. So how did you get here? What were your aspirations then? What did that look like?

Speaker 2 4:18

Well, very quickly yeah. I'm sure I actually was raised with six brothers. I have no sister.

Speaker 1 4:26

Oh, really OK, and where in the order are you?

Speaker 2 4:28

I am second to the oldest, ok, so I was the babysitter and so forth, but I was raised by very conservative parents. Both of my parents and I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and my father is actually he has passed now but he was a seminarian institute teacher for the church, which is quite traditional. So I was raised in that wonderful environment, actually with a lot of brothers. I was an athlete too, so we played baseball and basketball and all of those things.

Speaker 1 5:05

So probably, whether you wanted to or not, right Ping pong, we have to put that one in and foosball.

Speaker 2 5:10

So I became very good at all of those things and loved that. So I was, even though traditionally really had that separation between what men and what women do. I always had an interest in leadership throughout my life, even in high school. We had moved. I was raised in northern Idaho and in high school I lived in Moscow, idaho, and I just was asked by everybody to run things. So to run things the big dance festival, different things I love teaching, started teaching music and violin and piano when I was 13. So I had opportunities to lead. So that was always on my mind. However, being in that environment, you don't see women as leaders that much, and so I always felt I didn't have really a lot of examples of people that led other than church and not just in the environment. But back then, I mean, you just didn't see women as mayors or city council members, they were doing the work, they just didn't have the title.

Speaker 1 6:22

Yeah, you saw them in schools and so forth. They were doing the work, they just didn't have the title.

Speaker 2 6:38

Yeah, you saw them in schools and so forth and so, you know, went to college, ended up at BYU for my degree and really I didn journal as I was typing it up on Sundays, a little leadership chapter.

Speaker 2 6:51

It was like we used to Xerox and it was reduced and I'm like that is so interesting that I thought about that clear back then, clear back then. And so I didn't ever really aspire to major leadership positions but I always felt like, whether my dad appreciated it or not, that I had a voice and I should use it, and so I really aspired more towards what I was socialized and I appreciate that. I aspire to be a mom, I aspire to do other kinds of things. However, in my religion you have some special blessings that you get, and in mine, when I was 14, I had a line or two that said you're going to continue your education and I had seen my dad go through a master's when I was eight and then a doctorate when I was 16. And so that gave me quote permission to aspire to get my education and that was the key for me.

Speaker 1 8:01

Because, even though you'd seen your dad, that still was really important for you. Those couple of lines yeah, that you could do it.

Speaker 2 8:08

That it was. I could justify and I don't. This is when I was, and actually I hear people that still struggle with these, so I never felt quote guilty or shame or anything about pursuing my education. I really fought to not get married.

Speaker 1 8:29

I could get my master's before but, that didn't work.

Speaker 2 8:33

I was a junior high teacher for a couple of years after my, but as soon as I had two kids, I had a break between two and three, and during those years I went right back. I was living in Portland, Oregon, and got my master's degree.

Speaker 1 8:50

When your kids were little.

Speaker 2 8:52

They were little, and so you do things like teach piano and trade for babysitting.

Speaker 1 8:57

I've totally been there.

Speaker 2 8:59

Do all of those things, but felt very driven internally and felt very much that it was something God needed me to do to prepare for future work. I knew that or I didn't, I didn't know it was work for future things, that I would be asked to do so and so had some lines that just drove me forward, felt very good about that. And then education changes you. It really does. It changes how you look at things. It changes you know. So always ended up working part time and using my education, and not really until my doctorate degree, really until my doctorate degree. Partway through I thought maybe I'm really good at teaching, maybe I do need to be a professor and not necessarily just an adjunct in the evenings and so forth.

Speaker 2 9:56

So bottom line, too much information, but bottom line, my aspirations really changed and they have changed continuously through the years depending on where I felt called and I'm in a religious calling setting where I feel my calling comes from God. But I do talk to women all the time in different countries about calling and I've written scholarly work on women, leadership and calling and actually you don't have to be religious. You don't have to be spiritual to feel called. We're made to do certain things and when you feel like you're made to do things around calling, is that 30 to 40 percent more than men. If women feel that call, whether it's religious or not, I don't care. If you feel that call, then you're more likely to step forward to lead, even if it's not your aspiration.

Speaker 1 11:01

And so there's a lot of research. It's like being compelled right when it's when it really becomes personal yeah.

Speaker 2 11:08

And women need that call, or need to discover that, more than men the research says. And so through the years, after I learned all of that research, through the years, anything I do with women's leadership has a piece on this deeper purpose or call. You know I use both of those words and so we are driven by that, and many men too. But the research says about 30%, 30 to 40% women more than men to really want to see purpose. My husband said, yeah, it has to mean something.

Speaker 2 11:45

Why do you need purpose in everything you do? Can't you just get a paycheck? I'm like I don't know, I'm very purpose driven.

Speaker 1 11:51

Yeah, so we often talk about motivational factors when we train women and in some seasons of life, maybe it is a paycheck that's super important. Some people are really driven by mission and values, right, and oftentimes women more so than men, I have found want to leave an impact, want to like, pull for their generations, for their children, those kind of things. Not that men don't do that, but I really found that with women and I think that's a little bit about what you're talking about too.

Speaker 2 12:23

Exactly, and the research supports that.

Speaker 1 12:25

Yeah, very interesting.

Speaker 2 12:28

So in fact, harvard Business School a professor in Harvard Business School, probably 10, 12 years ago, was one of the first to put it out there so strongly that when you design women's leadership programs you have identity piece deeply Sure this purpose and then bias. You have to have a lot of work around your own biases but also how to navigate the biases of others around, because it's one thing to know, it's another thing to like, yeah, to do it, and women do navigate biases a lot and particularly well every place in the world.

Speaker 2 13:05

But in more conservative societies you tend to have significantly more sexism and bias. It's just and it's invisible to most people. In fact, it's invisible to a lot of women. It's interesting Until you experience, until you see, and then you learn, and then you see more and more.

Inspiring Women in Leadership Journey

Speaker 1 13:27

It's just like the part of education you talked about right, the more you know, the more you see. Yes, so I love that kind of a little bit of background about you and how you felt called or the work that you do as you've gone through your journey. Who have been some of your role models in this work? You talked about your dad, that he was a teacher. Who are a couple others that have really shaped you.

Speaker 2 13:49

Well, I'll tell you, as I've been asked this question before and I have never honestly been able to come up with names, other than there is a woman in history in my church, particularly Eliza R Snow, that I've loved reading about and she was just spunky and got the work done and she was a little bit outside the box. She wasn't married for a while, so she kind of had permission to do some different things and I loved that. But what I have realized through the years is that I have, just through watching, hearing even short conversations, I have been impacted by lots of different women. But for smaller things, like when I'm watching a woman, especially in my early career, facilitate meetings, I'm like, oh, I really like some of those techniques, and then I'd pull them in, I'd start practicing and when I would observe women just leaning into deep work around you know, domestic violence, let's say.

Speaker 2 15:05

I would say wow, I love that passion, I love these particular things, but also and I've done research around a lot of these things those transformational moments. I call them. People have different words for them, but that's the terms I use. I've had a lot of those just in conversations, when a woman has leaned in and just said I remember one woman who just pulled me aside one time and said you need to know that what you did in that meeting was exceptional. You stayed quiet for a while and then when you spoke, everyone listened and you articulated what you wanted powerfully. She just said that's not normal, that's exceptional. And I thought that's all she said.

Speaker 2 15:59

But I thought yeah, wow, I didn't know that. I just thought everybody did that as well as everybody else, and so it's those kinds of things that I think have church. One time I just watched a woman interact with another and the caring and the empathy and the listening and the eye contact and just the very. Not that I'm great at all. We all have our strengths and in StrengthsFinder we call them lesser strengths.

Speaker 1 16:44

Not weaknesses. I really I really appreciate that because it kind of speaks to the researcher in you, the you're observing, right, You're taking it in, you're applying it, you're experimenting with it, continually learning. And I also love the point that sometimes it takes other people to say you did a really good job at that. I really appreciated that skill because of this, this and this how much those things go a long way in helping us learn what leadership looks like for us. Right, yeah.

Speaker 2 17:18

So those moments are just critical and that's not really mentoring. Those are more coaching moments when you look at the difference in all the literature. But but you know, and I have people all the time asking me to be their mentor and I'm maxed out at this point I think there's a thousand people that call me their mentor. However, I think I feel always a little guilty because some of it's just, you know, coaching when I get on a Zoom for 30 minutes with someone and maybe it's just one time, but it changes them. You ask questions, you ramble a little bit, but again, it's often in those moments when we just take time to listen and share a few thoughts that shift people from where they are and just open their minds a little bit. And sometimes it's not just me telling them something.

Speaker 2 18:13

I mean questions are so powerful, like you ask a question and then people have done that to me and then I'm like, hmm, okay, I'm going to have to think about that and maybe I need to, and maybe it was kind of feedback and I'm like, do I do that? Do I do? Maybe I need to shift how? I'm doing something to make it better.

Speaker 1 18:38

Yes.

Speaker 2 18:38

Right Not to take, and I've had to practice through the years not being offended when things come.

Speaker 1 18:44

Absolutely.

Speaker 2 18:44

I've had to practice through the years, not being offended when things come and not pushing back but to say I wonder if I can do something better, and why not? I mean if my passion is around impacting Utah, impacting society, then I want to do that the best, most effective, most efficient way I can.

Speaker 1 19:05

It's good to take the feedback and say is this, Because it's not?

Speaker 2 19:08

about me. I'm better not perfect, better at taking things out from what individually I could be and then kind of putting out. Putting it out and letting us wrestle with that and then moving forward from there. Does that make sense at all? Like, instead of saying it's about me, put it out, take it out of my heart and not have me offended but just say how can I and we do this better to impact other people? Because that's it, it's really.

Speaker 2 19:45

maybe that comes with age, because there's a certain part that just you don't care as much anymore.

Speaker 1 19:54

I definitely have heard that from people. Yes, they're like hey, I'm over that.

Speaker 2 19:59

Yeah, it's really about the work. It's about changing lives, it's about changing our culture so that, more so, that we ensure more girls and women thrive here in the state. And, as I've said before you've heard me say this that means families too, and that includes boys and men, a big proponent of male allyship, it's important to bring everyone along.

Speaker 1 20:30

So we've kind of touched on this a little bit.

Speaker 2 20:32

Just real quick. I've just had some exceptionally good men that have stepped up and given me those moments of coaching too, so that can be powerful, especially when they're allies.

Speaker 1 20:45

Yeah, it helps round out perspectives, for sure. Okay, so we've talked about this a little bit, but in my work, when I used to teach on the Capitol how to get people engaged, right yes, I found that the people who came up were usually like it had just impacted their life.

Speaker 2 21:06

And now.

Speaker 1 21:07

They were up at the Capitol and they wanted to change right now. Right, because it's now impacted them personally. So last year it wasn't their past and last year wasn't their passion, and they want it done right now because it's based on emotion, right? So as we talk about change, how do those two go together? Like the emotion of it is always there, but then when that dies down and you're like, because social change can be a hard fight, it's a long fight. Well, maybe fight isn't the right word, it's a long conversation.

Speaker 1 21:39

So how do you sustain that? Have you seen that as you've worked through both the Women's Leadership Project and Boulder Way Forward? How can you sustain that with people?

Speaker 2 21:49

Well, I think there's various elements, and one is you know that we're research driven in everything we do, and so, as we continue to do the research and disseminate that and talk about that and share that, that helps people and me. Can I just talk about me for a minute? No, me too. So when you see the percentages and numbers, for instance, of violence but of opportunities not captured by women right in starting businesses, in struggles with child care, you know any of these topics. Our base, that's why our base, is research, because the real numbers can motivate certain people. The real numbers don't motivate everyone, though, Right? So one of the things I appreciate about this podcast and other things that the Women's Leadership Institute is they sometimes bring in those individual stories, and so we try to do that at times as well as we do panels. We're getting ready to have a video series release, one on each of our 18 spokes, and each of those will include the personal impact.

Speaker 2 23:10

And so sometimes people, like you said, come in with that personal impact. We still want to keep that Absolutely. And then people need to know. So the stats, the experiences, the storytelling, but then people more and more, especially with the bolder way forward, they want to know what to do, Always Like, what can I do in my life to?

Speaker 1 23:37

and so those tools, those suggestions To help them apply yeah once they've been yeah.

Speaker 2 23:43

And some of them get that already in their own families. But I think, and maybe you feel this too, it feels like more and more women and male allies want to do something about it, want to change. Yes, it is Especially in the last couple of years. You're seeing that momentum build of people and I always call it the head, heart and hands. So the head being, let's get the data. The heart, let's either my own life or people around me or storytelling from others. You can be deeply touched by someone you don't know personally, but then the hands.

Speaker 2 24:26

So what do I do with this? And sometimes people just kind of figure it out. There's a lot of people that need some tips to get going. Yep, because they need their few lines, socialization through the years that don't feel it's their job, their calling, to use their voice and lean in, and so we have to kind of help switch that in a lot of people.

Speaker 1 24:58

That's interesting, that idea between because I love people are different, right, and so I love the fact that you combine research with stories because, as someone who has been activated, like maternal mental health is very important for me, but also when I get tired and. I hear other people's stories, I'm like no, yes it matters and I will create time. So I think all those things are really important to keep our work moving forward and sometimes you shift to each one depending on who's listening to you.

Speaker 1 25:32

Who's listening where you're at your audience, right? Those people around you? Yeah, so a great summary of what that looks like, and I have to be reminded often, especially in legislative, that it's not all about the data for some, for some it is Yep, but.

Speaker 2 25:47

I need to remember because I'm so task driven to take those moments of really emotional like stories. This happens to people and it happens to people all around us.

Speaker 1 26:01

Yeah, and then in our neighborhoods, even Taking that emotion and helping people be accountable as a society, as a community, as humanity, right, it's that accountability piece that moves us forward, whether it's the legislature or individual business leaders, whatever that looks like.

Speaker 2 26:19

And what I love about the work that you do at the Women's Leadership Institute and our work is that there just are so many women in the state of Utah who, first of all, don't know how amazing they are.

Speaker 2 26:32

Absolutely and second, who have not been what I call unleashed, in terms of even internally unleashed by society and internally, to use their voices and do this important work that needs to be done and be a little rowdy yeah, rowdy, or whatever. It's just what we can do as human beings to make, not just for ourselves, but our children and society, to make things better, and every state has work to do in making things better.

Speaker 1 27:07

That's the state of humanity, right? We all are continually changing On the girls and women front, we have an extra lot of opportunity for growth.

Speaker 2 27:16

Did you see how I framed that? I did. I saw how you framed that, nice job.

Speaker 1 27:23

Oh, that's funny. Okay, so I want to talk a little bit about your being a professor at Utah State. Some of the classes you've taught have been the Women in Business Executive Speaker Series, women's Leadership Development, innovative and Inclusive Leadership, and I'm really interested in generational right, the generational impact in generational right. The generational impact We've started working with founders like from the beginning is the company you've created, diverse right, instead of now that it's built and big, which can happen too, but hitting it from both sides. But I think there's a generational shift and I don't have any research on this. I didn't look up any research, but I'm just wondering anecdotally or maybe you have research on that what that looks like.

Evolution of Leadership in Modern Workplace

Speaker 2 28:09

I love that question. So in the fall I will be teaching a seven-week, two times a week course. I love it, though I teach two classes a year just for seven weeks, so I love it, but this one will be just a leadership class, so I tend to get sophomores, but a lot of juniors and some seniors. So it's an undergrad class, but it's about leadership.

Speaker 1 28:31

And so.

Speaker 2 28:31

I get a mix of young women and young men. It's early in the morning. I typically get the traditionally aged students of my class. They live close, okay. But what I love is that we have these conversations about generational leadership and what it looks like. Yeah, and it's been interesting through the years. Even you know, I've been teaching for I don't know how long 20 years, full time but I was teaching before that. So I've taught leadership for a couple decades, yeah, and I've definitely seen a shift.

Speaker 2 29:04

Okay, I've taught leadership for a couple decades and I've definitely seen a shift, and so what I really see is this pushback on what is called directive leadership, more of the top-down leadership, more and more our students, at least, want to be able to utilize their critical thinking, their you know just all of the things that they have developed and put together and lead, you know, be able to do whatever they want to help companies, not just, you know, do what they're told.

Speaker 1 29:42

I guess is what I'm getting at and so they don't want to be in the box, yeah.

Speaker 2 29:47

Yeah, they're more wanting to be in these situations where they can have a voice themselves, and so that's a different kind of leadership.

Speaker 1 29:56

Yeah.

Speaker 2 29:57

That is a leader not just telling people what to do, but looking at personalities, looking at who they have Really. It goes in with that strengths, those strengths finder leadership strengths yeah, building teams, Look and then giving some challenging assignments to even new folks. There's ways to do that. Yeah, If they botch it up, you know it doesn't have to ruin everything.

Speaker 1 30:23

And that's an important leadership skill, right, Like it's okay to make a decision and then pivot because maybe it didn't go the way we wanted.

Speaker 2 30:31

But that teaches. You know, the whole tech fail fast is really interesting, but it's not failure, even it's learning. And so I think more and more they want to shift into the growth mindset instead of a fixed mindset, Although we're raising kids sometimes to be in that fixed mindset. And so this whole, how do you lead younger folks right? It is really a challenge for but it's a challenging opportunity. Some of us like good challenges, hence we take on what we do right To find ways to motivate maybe older folks, much older than me, probably, no, like my age, but also maybe in their 40s and then in their 20s, because they can be very different.

Speaker 2 31:18

Yeah, yes, but they're different in some ways. And motivating and giving experiences to different kinds of people and understanding the whole. I just wrote a piece on readiness for change, how to you do interventions to prepare people for change All of those things are different, and so there's a lot of words I could put on that. Yeah, for you know there's transformational leadership and authentic leadership. Don't you feel like younger folks as well, speaking of authentic leadership, want to and're impatient? You go and yell or whatever, but the good parts of who you are.

Speaker 1 32:09

Their insides and their outsides look very similar, whereas I feel like in a more hierarchical. You know, 50 years ago you had your work self and then your home self.

Speaker 2 32:19

You separated those. And now, even 20, 30 years ago, when I was doing my dissertation, we changed the literature change from work-life balance to work-life integration. You still hear balance, but that's not what we use anymore. We call it integration that there's not these separate and sometimes there are in different spaces. So it's not perfect, but more and more I mean leaders are being really interested in making sure there's child care options or this and that which integrates.

Speaker 1 32:54

Which I feel like the upcoming generation is just like you don't have it, I don't want to work there. Exactly, exactly, which is a whole different change, so it's going to be interesting.

Speaker 2 33:03

And remote work. That's an interesting thing because finally, we've been so behind in work life balance or work life options in our workplaces in the state of Utah till COVID, and then we caught up, but some of the big companies are going back to like let's not do any remote work anymore yeah, which is totally contrary to the research, and I think some of our younger generation, even if they don't have kids, are like wait, wait, wait.

Speaker 1 33:38

They just expect something different yeah.

Speaker 2 33:40

I mean, hey, it doesn't make logical sense that I can't work at home two days a week, you know with the job we're doing. So it's really interesting. I think the younger generation and my kids are now in their 30s, so the 20s is different.

Speaker 1 33:56

You've got teens, I got an eight year old and I'm like, oh, wow, what's that going to be like? I literally think he's going to ask Siri who to vote for president someday. Right, it's going to be like this hive mind. I don't know, that's not my prediction, but I can see it.

Speaker 2 34:29

So yeah, but it's good, because you know, in the workplace we've just got to be as leaders, as managers, even supervisors. We have to be more, more caring about understanding the people around, because we're going to leave if we don't care. I mean the relationship between a manager, an employee, and their direct supervisor, their manager, whatever it is, is the most important.

Speaker 1 34:46

It impacts a lot? Yeah, because you're at work. If you're working full time, like work, that's a lot of time out of your life. It is a lot of time and impacts things, yeah, so, plus, throw in AI and it'll be a really interesting conversation, right? Okay, so I do want to second let's see you just finished your first year, right, and had your summit Congratulations.

Speaker 2 35:16

Take off of year two. Thank you.

Speaker 1 35:18

And you've done some research right in the spokes and working getting those going. Tell me what one of your and I know there are many, but tell me what one of your takeaways from the first year, and then where are you looking to go in this next year?

Speaker 2 35:34

So for people that are not, familiar with. A Bolder Way Forward. You can go to abolderwayforwardcom or not org Let me get that right and then you can see the model. There's a 15 minute video that gives you an overview. So overall this is a seven year movement because, as we looked at the research on, if we keep doing the pieces and parts we've been doing, even though there's great things happening, they're not shifting things in ways that are impacting the bigger you know, there's individual people doing things, but our statistics around violence or opportunities are not changing.

Speaker 2 36:17

So, basically, we looked at the data and it's like, if we keep doing the good things we're doing now, it's still 30, 40 years to make notable progress. And it's like that's not OK for my daughter, for my granddaughters, for our kids. And so we have this movement and it's based on ensuring that more Utah girls and women thrive. Yeah, and so we have 18, it's a wheel of change 18 spokes, so there's 18 key areas, and things are going on in all in the workplace, which is where you although you know you, your work goes around into politics and different things as well.

Speaker 2 36:57

There are things like childcare and entrepreneurship and organizational strategies, which Women Leadership Institute is part of that and the pay gap and different things like that, leadership development and so forth, and so those are all efforts. So year one, so a little bit of background there. Year one we, you know it was a lot harder than I was thinking. In terms of setting bold goals, you would think that would be easy, but actually people have not done that for a state before. And then finding metrics that measure those so you can see progress over seven years. That has been so much more work for all of us, including what we're calling spoke leaders, to figure out what can we do in seven years to be bold and not safe, but bold and then how do we measure change?

Speaker 1 37:54

Yeah, what are the questions that matter? Yeah?

Speaker 2 37:57

The research, and even though I'm a women's leadership scholar, I'm also a scholar of societal change. I've been working on that for decades, and so taking that to this has been really an interesting element and figuring out how to do that so in the first year, that's been a big win is where there's still a few spokes. We're tweaking, of course, but the research again says the change is not going to be powerful if you don't have the goals in mind, and so that's been a big thing. We've also just taken people to the next level in understanding deeper societal change, and that's been a key level. And understanding deeper societal change and that's been a key. But probably one of our biggest wins this first year is that we now have coalitions set in all 29 counties.

Speaker 2 38:43

We have traveled around the state to run gatherings of leaders and we tend to try to get between 20 and 30, not too big, although Salt Lake was quite big. And are these female and male leaders? Yeah, more females, of course, are jumping into the invitations, but we love to have men in the room as well. So we try to get the 20 to 30, not too big, not too small, but I'll tell you like in Paiute County there's 1,200 people in the entire county and we had 12. So we were that's one person You're like statistically that's really great. So that was kind of fun and just that's a big win for us to get the foundation set and so there's just been, and to get the right leadership. So it's not about me leading from on top and my team we're leading from the middle. We're trying to pull and the model is let's bring everybody together, that's doing all the pieces and everything, and shift together, and that's the key it looks like it needs to be, holistic, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

Speaker 2 39:54

So those are a few big wins. We had about 800 people at our summit and then 200 online, so about 1,000 people joined in At the end of year one. We have about 3,000 engaged with about 300 organizations, and it's laying the foundation now for year two, which we can get into the next real, real, you know element of change, and so each year is going to be very different, building on each other. But again, we we're publishing research and trying to keep everything research based, not let's just start from scratch. Everybody give us our ideas. That's nice, yeah, but actually what are best practices from other states? Who's doing what? So that's a real difference in moving forward is to be research and best practice based.

Speaker 1 40:46

So is there exciting though?

Speaker 2 40:47

There's energy.

Speaker 1 40:48

Yeah, yeah, appreciate you being involved, thank you. Is there another state that you look to, or a couple states who you're like oh, they're doing some really great things. And if so, like what are two of those?

Speaker 2 41:01

Well, no state is doing what we are. In fact, I just talked to someone in DC yesterday who had started looking at our reports around child care and different things and they're like, oh my gosh, this is not. I've never seen this in any other state we've worked, so there's some unique things happening, which is great, yeah. However, there are certain states in the eastern, like Massachusetts, some different eastern states that have done some really cool things around the pay gap and so, and then other states trying to think I can't remember which are doing more great work. I know California is really trying to lean into the domestic violence, sexual assault, and so not one state.

Speaker 2 41:46

Massachusetts really tried to do some interesting things overall and I know a lot of folks there. But there's some other states like West Virginia, that's quite behind, like we are that have contacted me and are like what are you doing? What's this builder? Way forward, we need work too.

Speaker 1 42:05

So you're building a plane, right. I'm like give us a year, I mean we need to.

Speaker 2 42:11

Actually, this is a lot of work, but we need to, like, kick it into gear for year two. So we're really excited about having the foundation. We're building the bridge as we're walking on it, yes, okay, and we can see a few slats ahead. Since no one else has done that, we don't have a perfect strategic plan for the entire thing, and can I just say I don't. I used to teach strategic planning. I mean, the world's a different place in the last two years, or since the COVID. So so you, this perfect seven-year plan is not. I mean, we're going to shift, we're adjusting almost every day towards what the needs are. But what I love about this model is we have I don't know how many we should count them all up I would say between 100 and 200 leaders of it within the movement, counting spokes, subspokes, working groups, impact team leaders, county coalitions, county coalitions, executive leadership teams, and that is, on the one hand, a challenge a bit of herding cats, can I just say it and on the other hand, oh my gosh, such a cool opportunity, absolutely.

Speaker 2 43:32

And people are leaning in Like this is head. I understand, I feel this and I want to do something. That's what I love. More and more Utahns, like I said, are leaning in, yeah, to feel that, yeah, we want to change. We don't want to be viewed as the worst state for women's equality. We don't want to have the violence issues for our kids, for people, and it's time to change and there's energy behind that.

Speaker 1 44:00

Yeah, and I love that you said for because we talked about change and the personal impetus and you're like, yeah, we could get there in 30 to 40 years, I want it sooner. What does that look like?

Speaker 2 44:11

And for your, I mean I, my daughter's 31 now, but I have three granddaughters and three grandsons.

Speaker 1 44:18

Yeah.

Speaker 2 44:19

And it's like, yeah, 30 to 40 years, that's not acceptable, especially in most of these areas.

Speaker 1 44:26

Yeah.

Speaker 2 44:27

But including, and sometimes in workplace kinds of conversations. We don't talk about violence, but I'll tell you child sexual abuse, domestic violence, sexual assault are issues where I'm worst in sexual assault and rape. They all impact a woman's experience. The rest of her life.

Expanding Diversity in Leadership Roles

Speaker 1 44:44

Oh, and there's definitely an intersection with work, right? Absolutely, absolutely, yeah, the whole trauma, informed ability. Yeah, yeah, well, as always, it is delightful to speak with you. Is there anything else you'd like to share that we haven't covered?

Speaker 2 45:01

today. To anybody listening in, I just say you're welcomed into a bolder way forward and if you're working with the Women's Leadership Institute, you're probably in the bolder way forward and you don't know it. We're just opening the floodgates for companies. The only companies we've been working with are those that have been proactive and reached out, but we're just, and any company that's taken the Elevate Her Challenge is going to be interested in their employees' understanding and being engaged in the top leadership teams. So we just welcome. And whether you're listening and you don't work for pay, I'm very careful because when we're home, we work.

Speaker 2 45:46

Oh, anyone can join. So there's lots of needs to really help shift Utah in a way that's really exciting, really helped shift Utah in a way that's really exciting that more women see their potential, more women use their voices and more families are just thriving because both men and women and boys and girls are working better together to change things, including the top leadership in companies and in political roles and civic engagement. All of that matters. All the things.

Speaker 1 46:18

Okay, well, thank you again. Thank you for your work. Always appreciate it, thanks.