Becky Marquette & Kate Noonan: Empowering the Next Generation of Female Engineers

Becky Marquette, a chemical engineer dedicated to inspiring future generations, and Kate Noonan, whose career has seamlessly transitioned from materials engineering to academia, join us today. 

Our conversation dives into the challenges and triumphs women face in engineering, traditionally dominated by men. Through heartfelt stories and reflections, Becky and Kate discuss the mentors who inspired them, such as transformative teachers and trailblazers like Dorothy Vaughn. They highlight the critical role of representation and mentorship, demonstrating how seeing oneself in successful figures can empower women to overcome barriers. We also consider how fun and engaging STEM activities can ignite a spark in young girls, ultimately broadening their career horizons.

With honesty and warmth, Becky and Kate explore the importance of nonlinear career paths and supportive networks in achieving success. They offer personal anecdotes, like Kate's transition to a flexible role during motherhood, and discuss how recognizing talent and providing accommodations can lead to exceptional results. This episode celebrates the synergy between these two remarkable women, showcasing how mutual support and teamwork have fostered both personal and professional growth. It leaves listeners with a sense of inspiration and a reminder of the impact of encouraging others.

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Transcript

Speaker 1 0:05

Welcome to Elevate, a Women's Leadership Institute podcast, where we showcase stories, celebrate successes and shift culture. Hello and welcome to another episode of Elevate, a Women Leadership Institute podcast. We are happy to have you here today. We have two amazing women. This podcast episode has been in the works for months and I can't wait for you to learn from Becky Marquette, who is on our advisory board at the Women's Leadership Institute and a rock star, and Kate Noonan, who is the director of academic program operations at a higher ed institution. So welcome, ladies, thank you.

Speaker 2 0:40

Thank you, it's so great to be here.

Speaker 1 0:41

Yes, thank you for coming. So let's dive into this. I'd love you to introduce yourselves a little bit more about what you're doing currently, and I always love for people to give like a personal shout out, like we've had a national yo-yo champion, we've had like a backup kiss dancer, we've had all kinds of things. So that's amazing. Yeah, so it doesn't have to be watercolorist, just something personal. After you share what you're doing, okay, Becky, let's start with you All right.

Speaker 2 1:11

Well, I am a chemical engineer by trade and most of my career I've spent in operations and business development. Currently, I am a co-founder of a Utah nonprofit called STEM Heads, and we aim to inspire youth into exploring careers in science, technology, engineering and math. Beyond that, I am also a fractional COO, helping small businesses to improve their operations, and I'm also a part-time career coach at the University of Utah.

Speaker 1 1:45

She has so many talents. That's awesome.

Speaker 2 1:49

And a personal little anecdote yeah, okay, oh boy, if I could come up with one right off of the cuff, I can curl my tongue in a weird. I can do a party trick where I can curl my tongue like in a flower, sort of thing. Oh, wow, yeah, I don't know if it's not appropriate, I guess, for our podcast, because listeners can't see me do it, but that's all, I won't ask you to share, but that is a great party trick.

Speaker 1 2:16

And you should see your shoes. She made her shoes today and they are off the charts. Super cool, very colorful. So OK, I didn't know that about you, so thanks for sharing.

Speaker 2 2:24

Nor did I. Is that like a genetic? Thing, I think it is. I think it is, I found out by accident.

Speaker 3 2:32

It wasn't my mom or dad who showed me Podcast number two.

Speaker 1 2:37

Exactly Okay. How about you, Kate?

Speaker 3 2:45

And I'll do it kind of in reverse. So right now, like you said, I am the director of academic program operations in higher education. I've been in higher education for about five years. I lead a team of project managers doing new product introduction is kind of what I would equate it to from, because I came from over 10 years in the manufacturing kind of defense world and the kind of start to that. Like Becky was saying, I'm an engineer as well, so I have my degree in materials engineering. I went to Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute in New York, which I always love to say because people are like wow, that sounds really nerdy.

Speaker 3 3:22

And I'm like it sure is, and so that's kind of my background, and then my personal antidote is that.

Speaker 2 3:34

I am a proud jazzerciser and have for years and years it lives on it lives on.

Speaker 3 3:39

I do not wear, you know, like the leg warmers and maybe the neon colors like they used to, but yes, that is my love.

Speaker 1 3:50

That is so great. I love always asking that personal, you know, personal story Helps round out the people we're talking to Now. I come from a family of engineers, but for those of us who don't know engineering very well, would you explain your specific type of engineering? For those who us who don't know engineering very well? Would you explain your specific type of engineering for those who might not know?

Speaker 2 4:09

Sure, sure. So chemical engineering it was actually a degree from the University of Utah and it was fuels specific, so it is figuring out how to distill crude oil down into the various fuels, the various components jet fuel, gasoline, lubricants, oils, and so there's a lot of chemistry involved, a lot of physics, physical chemistry, organic chemistry, lots of chemistry involved and math. Ok.

Speaker 1 4:41

And involved with that.

Speaker 2 4:42

So chemical engineers can work in material science world. They can work for refineries, of course, and creating new chemicals, new cosmetics, you know. For the ladies out there, you know there's a lot of cool occupations with chemical engineering.

Speaker 1 5:00

Okay, thank you for explaining that. And how about you?

Women in STEM Careers

Speaker 3 5:03

ground all materials. So when I went to RPI I did a lot of work in a lab doing strength right, taking materials and breaking them, analysis things like that, and then actually at RPI. In particular it was in the world of polymers. So it actually leaned more heavily on chemical engineering, like you're saying, the kind of chemistry side of things, and that was really kind of front edge of the work at that time, which was exciting too because the application could be, you know, into the environmental kind of that world which I was kind of passionate about. You could go into textiles right and looking at different things you know, making new waterproof capabilities etc.

Speaker 1 6:01

So yeah, kind of a combo, Perfect. As we kind of disseminate this world of females and engineers, I want to make sure that it's accessible for everyone. We do that with like tech and other things, medical right when we've had them in. So thank you for sharing that, of course. So at one point both of you worked as engineers in a male-dominated field. What drew you into that career?

Speaker 3 6:28

Yeah, do you want to start?

Speaker 2 6:29

Yeah, I can start first. Okay, my origin story starts with my high school chemistry teacher. Her name was Linda Eyring. She was the granddaughter of Henry B Eyring and she was. I wanted to be like her. She was so confident, so smart, unapologetically, her authentic self, and she believed in me and she encouraged me and after some research I found that I could make a decent living going into engineering and because of Ms Eyring I felt that I could do it. She gave me the confidence that I had what it took to be successful with that degree path, so that's why I chose it. And then, going into my first career, my first job out of getting my undergrad, it really was. You know what jobs were out there and I picked the one that you know that I got offered.

Speaker 2 7:28

I didn't expect to land at L3, which was a defense contract manufacturer engineering manufacturing organization in Salt Lake, but at the time the companies weren't really hiring a lot of chemical engineers, and so I took it and ended up in their operations department where they had a lot of precision cleaning and some material science processes that I could apply my degree there. So that's how I ended up there.

Speaker 1 7:54

Yeah, I love that it's through a teacher, like shout out to teachers. Right, they really shape so many things, especially in this STEM environment, so I love that you did a shout out to Miss Irene.

Speaker 2 8:06

Yep, and especially because she was a female and she was a scientist and I could see both of those coming together and I could see myself in that role and big shocker.

Speaker 3 8:16

I have the same story, and in fact I didn't know that of Becky. So there you go.

Speaker 1 8:23

I did not plan this.

Speaker 3 8:24

Reinforced, oh my gosh. But yeah, so I have a really similar story because I actually was with my very best friend from second grade. We end up the last two years we've been in Nashville just to do a girls weekend and I was like, who was our math teacher? I can't remember her name because I was trying to think of, you know, she was my person. That got me and, bless, my best friend helped me remember. So mine is Miss Pasachow and she was my high school math teacher and I was. I was gifted in math and science Just we'll say it like that and it was something that I really liked to do too, like it wasn't just something that was a little bit easy, easy, but I felt like I could get into it, it was just natural. When I sat down to do my math homework, it was like, oh, this is fun instead of a struggle fest like it is for me to write a paper.

Speaker 1 9:18

I was just thinking in my mind. Because I love English, I'm like that's how I feel when I write a paper. Yep, yep.

Speaker 3 9:26

And so she really encouraged me to look at engineering. In fact, there were some really wonderful scholarships at RPI in particular that she kind of geared me towards that. That ended up being a really big decision maker that I I was able to get that scholarship to help me go to RPI, because it's, you know, can be expensive. And so I think just also reinforcing like you're seeing, uh, like you're saying becky of seeing yourself in with people in these kind of spaces is so important, and that is something that I hope I've passed along to sim people too right and kind of paid that forward because you know, I saw it like you were saying she was this amazing, bright.

Speaker 3 10:08

you know, like you said, very her authentic self, she's kind of quirky, she was our mathlete. Um you know, I was a mathlete. I was also an athlete, but I was a mathlete too, and we would go to her house, and you know, after a mathlete competition and she was just awesome being able to see yourself in someone like that and be like, oh yeah, I can do that, that's cool.

Speaker 1 10:27

That is so empowering. Thank you for sharing those origin stories. I love that.

Speaker 1 10:34

So um, so let's talk a little bit about engineering in general. I was looking up a couple of female engineers co-invent, as an engineer, the communication system that guided torpedoes during the war. And then Dorothy Vaughn was the first black supervisor at NASA. She was a mathematician who they called her the human computer right, who made strides toward the space program, human computer right who made strides toward the space program, and it was so interesting to go back through and just there have been female engineers but a lot of women don't go into engineering, especially, like I think, electrical engineering, different kind of things like that. Different engineering fields have more percentages or less percentages of women. So let's talk about that a little bit. Why do you think more women don't go into engineering fields and what are the most significant barriers in those fields and also some of the benefits?

Speaker 3 11:50

Yeah, go ahead. I was just. I feel like it stems from what.

Speaker 3 11:55

No pun intended, maybe I meant it, I'm just kidding pun intended maybe I meant it, I'm just kidding is it goes back to what we were just saying is I think being able to see yourself is such an important part, especially in that K-12, right, if you don't have like you were, becky and I were just talking about, you know that female leader kind of role model, I think that that can be a starting barrier and oftentimes you're not necessarily seeing it even at that level, right? So you're talking about getting to the engineering space I've done some mentoring kind of in the past in this and you're not even getting to the conversation about college and engineering, because you're already seeing girls not quite as interested right in that middle school getting into high school because they're not seeing themselves in those spaces.

Speaker 2 12:47

Exactly, and I think they make a judgment early on girls and women that they believe STEM fields are for men because all they see are men in those roles. And I think, innately we as human beings want to belong to a community and if girls can't see a path to where they feel that sense of belonging in a career or you know, can see themselves being included, and I just think that they disregard those kinds of career paths and they don't consider them. It's, you know, the same argument for men in the allied health occupations like nursing.

Speaker 2 13:28

There's not a lot of men in nursing, and so I see men, you know, not going after those types of careers. So I think you know, I agree with you, kate, that that is very much. I think the the the barrier. Also, I think society's gender roles that we've placed on men and women. I think that's also a barrier that women don't feel like that they can be both a caregiver, which their gender role you know, they've been assigned the caregiver gender role. They can't be both a caregiver and the breadwinner, or, you know, the caregiver and see themselves having a career. Yeah, so I think those are two barriers there.

Speaker 3 14:09

And I also think too that when you look at kind of just an innate, you know, I have, I have two boys and I'm a very proud mom of the those boys. And I still look at that and think you know, we all want to solve big problems. Yes, right that there's, I think, this innate drive that I look at them and like we're not sitting there being what do you want to be when you grow up? But what kind of big problems do you want to solve, right? And I think, when you look at that when you grow up, but what kind of big problems do you want to solve, right? And I think, when you look at that, women in particular, as you were just saying, kind of I think the there's a rootedness in history there, but those big problems tend to want to be the ones that really make a difference, because women want to be part of that community.

Speaker 3 14:55

That's making right A really big, um kind of emotional. There's a connectedness, yes, right, that I think drives women and so being able to again see that. But I think that that we have those of us like becky and I that, come it's, we have a big responsibility to be able to articulate that too. Um, you know I'm not actively doing that, but I have in the past. It's so important to be able to. You know, we had the what was the women's International Women's Day Right. We did the whole talk at the planetarium yes, right.

Speaker 3 15:32

And that's such a big deal. To be able to show our work makes a difference. You can feel connected and feel you're part of a community and you're solving big problems. To be able, I think, to draw, especially at that middle school, high school age too, before they're starting to be like I'm not sure that I see myself there.

Speaker 2 15:51

And I can see why. I think some of your research also showed, when you were looking at some stats on engineering, that more women go into bioengineering and chemical engineering. My class was 50-50, men and women Really, oh wow. Electrical engineering not so much yeah you're right, electrical and mechanical.

Speaker 2 16:11

There were more men than women, for sure, and I think women tend to gravitate toward those engineering programs, like Kate you were saying, because they can see themselves solving problems for individuals for human beings, like being part of a medical device industry, for example, or you know helping others, you know with life-saving either technologies, or you know helping to solve cancers, that kind of thing. So, and then electrical engineering. It's just hard to make that leap of. What problems would I be solving being an electrical engineer that I, as a woman, feel like?

Speaker 3 16:47

I'm connected to and connected to application of career paths, absolutely Right. I mean, you can go into all those fields we just talked about, right Bio, chem, material, mechanical. I mean, we both worked for a place that electrical engineering was really important, right? So, anyway, I think that that's one of those things, that there's this historic perception. It's like a Big Bang Theory episode, right. Everybody thinks this is hardcore math and physics, but it's really not. And, again, I think it's about making sure that those you've got to shift those stories a little bit.

Speaker 1 17:30

Yes, I'm a big believer that stories matter. I love the conversation you two just had together and explaining your you know, creating belonging your teacher, that after math leads right, you went to her house. She created belonging, that this is a cool thing and not like you're going to be a nerd over in the corner right, because that matters.

Speaker 1 17:52

I think that's so important and belonging for you. Like what does that look like? Because everybody wants to make a difference and I love that many women now are turning around and pulling up other women to tap them on the shoulder. But I don't think do they teach electrical engineering in high school?

Speaker 3 18:15

Not necessarily.

Speaker 2 18:16

Math chemistry. The basics in high school with physics, biology, chemistry math calculus Right.

Speaker 3 18:23

You'd have to have somebody connect them for you. Connect those for you, yeah.

Speaker 1 18:27

And then you also talked about starting earlier, like in junior high and I just heard statistics about by the eighth grade, girls have already decided persuaded themselves out of STEM fields. What do you guys think about that, or what has been your experience with that?

Speaker 2 18:47

Well, I do have a story about that, because I also felt that it's like, right when you reach puberty, you are making a lot of decisions.

Speaker 1 18:55

A lot of hormones are happening.

Speaker 2 18:57

A lot of things are going on.

Empowering Girls in STEM Education

Speaker 2 18:58

You know what boys you think are cute, and there was a program called Expanding your Horizons that was led by Orbital ATK at the time at the time that I was involved, and it was specifically for girls in junior high and it was a day of workshops where girls could come and experience all the different types of sciences and technologies and I led a couple of those workshops. Oh my gosh, it was so fun. We helped them see, through the lens of being a girl, how they could apply themselves and have fun with science. So a couple of the workshops One was the science of making slime you know how to make slime polymers and how they interact.

Speaker 2 19:46

Another was making a dance pad you know that was electrical engineering, connecting a battery with lights, and then they get to dance to music on those light up dance pads at the end. And then another one was the process of amalgamation. And, like, you know how to make asphalt roads and concrete roads, and it was through making no bake cookies, you know, with oatmeal and sugar, and you make an amalgamate and you spread it out, you know. And so I think that sparking the interest and igniting that small flame that might be in there at that age, and seeing that connection, I think those kinds of programs and those opportunities for girls are so important and can really change the trajectory for our representation of women in those fields.

Speaker 1 20:37

And if you were not watching this on video, her face just lit up.

Speaker 2 20:41

I don't know if you could feel the energy and excitement she had towards that.

Speaker 1 20:45

but, like I love that you took the application of things they could be curious about, right, because it talks to that pathway. I think that's so important. Thank you for sharing that. That was awesome, do you? I?

Speaker 3 20:59

I will hats off Becky. I agree that the, the light up was perfect. I can I can describe my own experiences too, but it's spot on to what you described. Right, we're all curious humans and being able to make those connections, yeah, important part.

Speaker 1 21:16

I'm like, Okay, I'm going to go home and make no bake cookies.

Speaker 3 21:19

No, for real, Like I've got a.

Speaker 1 21:21

I've got a girl who's a sophomore, who is super smart but has already decided that STEM's not for her, so maybe making those connections for her would be interesting. I don't know if you guys have ever read the book. Oh, now I've just spaced it. It's about the woman who bakes. She's a scientist and she bakes learning with chemistry.

Speaker 2 21:45

I loved that book right.

Speaker 1 21:47

Because she had her thing, she did her lasagna.

Speaker 3 21:54

But it was so applicable you know, to the home, and she was a mother and a scientist.

Speaker 1 22:00

And I know it's just a book, but it really took off and I think that there is a need for women to see themselves in those spaces using their own skills.

Speaker 3 22:08

Yeah, and I love that whole idea. You had all these women sitting in the audience watching her taking notes, bringing yes, right, and I think you mentioned at the beginning, right, that kind of authentic how we show up in those spaces and I think that she's that incredible example. She didn't, you know, she didn't put on the clothes she wasn't going to give in.

Speaker 3 22:32

She was going to wear her lab coat Right, and I think that's such a good example of I think also, like you're saying, when you kind of hit that kind of puberty stage, you're trying to find who you are, and I think that's one of those things is I'd love people to know that engineering, because of the diversity of it, you don't have to feel locked into something, right, if you just go in. I mean, I went in thinking I wanted to be an environmental engineer. Right, you can take the girl out of Vermont, but you cannot take the Vermont out of the girl. I was going to solve all of global warming problems right.

Speaker 1 23:07

That would have been awesome, but that was my mission.

Speaker 3 23:10

Didn't quite make it, but that's okay because I've still been successful in other ways. And that's what's amazing is that I think people think, okay, well, I need to know what chemical or electrical or materials or mechanical is, but you really don't. You just have to have that spark and passion for solving big problems in a technical space. That then you can. You get to keep discovering, even when you go to college. Frankly, I kept discovering when I got my first career right, my first job, and that was okay Because, guess what? I didn't end up in materials engineering in my career.

Speaker 2 23:48

I didn't become an environmental engineer, but I still found a path that was authentically me, and PSA engineering can springboard into so many different professions so many different paths Management, quality law, government, sales, business development, entrepreneurship, Higher education, Higher education right.

Speaker 3 24:18

Like turn it back around. I mean, it's really even in the fashion industry and things that are more like you were saying, like historically, cosmetics that feel textiles. Yes, I mean, it's just I just that's something I would love if I could scream from the rooftops, right, so you don't have to feel at any of that, those kind of critical points of middle school, high school, college, early career, even later in your career, that you're locked right. Engineering gives a lot of possibilities.

Speaker 1 24:51

I like that a lot. It kind of gives room around it because when we think of certain things it does seem like oh, I'm locked in this. I changed my mind. So glad that you brought that up and the accessibility right. Even you said in a technical space, like what do these words even mean? And that's one reason why I love that book is because it's just baking right. Marketing calls it baking soda, but this is the chemical name for it and you can use the chemical name right.

Speaker 2 25:14

Sodium bicarbonate.

Speaker 1 25:18

Excellent. Okay, I'm loving this. You talked about higher education. Let's talk about that. You both transitioned to education roles currently. What precipitated that industry change and what impact does education have on engaging students in STEM?

Speaker 3 25:34

I think Becky should go first for this one, because then I can be like me too.

Speaker 2 25:39

first for this one, because then I can be like me too. Yeah, I guess I moved before you did.

Speaker 3 25:47

Yeah, a couple of years before you moved, that's probably a good baseline too.

Speaker 2 25:55

Yeah, so Kate and I have known each other for 10 years. I, you know, hired her as an awesome, continuous improvement quality engineer and I guess it was five years ago or so. Six years ago we could go into the whole story of the women in engineering ERG group. Yes, kate and I were. If you want to start there, that's great, that's okay, absolutely. The big reason why I made the big pivot and career shift from a male majority male industry into a majority female industry with higher ed.

Speaker 2 26:26

Okay. So we at L3, we called it the Women in Engineering ERG. It was one of the first ERGs that we launched as a company, shortly after taking the Elevate Her Challenge. Okay, and we as a group felt that L3 did a great job of highlighting and being transparent with pay equity. I do remember they were very transparent about that. So the E part of DEI, they were great on. We felt like there was some room for them to improve on diversity and inclusion and so we were looking the goals of the ERG. We were looking to increase the percentage of women in engineering and tech roles and we also wanted to improve the retention of those women in those roles. And then, from an HR policy standpoint, we felt that there were some you know policies and practices that we could employ that bettered the paternal leave policy, the working accommodations for mothers and work flexibility practices which, by the way, you know, that helps men too.

Speaker 1 27:36

You know, it's not just for women.

Speaker 2 27:38

So that was the. Those were the goals of the ERG and at that time I think I was about 20 years in with L3. And it was the best part of my job and it was a side gig it was outside of my normal responsibilities and I said, oh, there's something here. I need to do some self-reflection right now, at this point in my career, if I am really passionate and what lights me up in the morning is working with these women on this.

Speaker 1 28:08

ERG right.

Speaker 2 28:10

I think I might need to reevaluate what I value in my career, what I want, what I desire, and at that time I was. I started to be involved with the Women's Leadership Institute and I can't tell you, Patty, how that just helped my confidence that I could.

Speaker 2 28:26

I could make a change, that I didn't have to be loyal to you know, any one company or any one position or role or and I could define my own success. I could define what I felt was a successful career or success in my life at that time. So I was looking for more work-life balance and I was looking for more of a position where it was mission-driven and I could see myself giving to a mission that had a direct impact in the quality of people's lives and so yeah, so I think that was a time in my life where I said, okay, I'm going to make a shift and, as you know, opportunities just kind of come, and not that it fell into my lap, but you know, sometimes it's. It's that case and I had the wonderful opportunity to go work for a higher ed institution and I took it and it was the best decision I made at that time.

Navigating Nonlinear Career Paths in STEM

Speaker 1 29:22

Yeah, interesting. I love that you talked about alignment, because obviously you both love engineering. You know that's very clear from our conversation. But you can also, like you said, define your own success and what that looks like in other ways you know, and still love what you were doing too.

Speaker 3 29:42

Yeah, and and I really love that that you say that too, patti, because we always you hear imposter syndrome so much right and I actually have a hard time with that term, I don't know why.

Speaker 3 29:56

It just like grates me a little bit, even though I'm fully guilty of it. It's, I think, in my brain. It's highly overcomable, even though I do it all the time, and I think for me that shift was part of like you're. So Becky tapped me about a year in, probably to being at the higher ed institution and I said no you did yeah. I'm, I, I'm like I just, you know, I was on this cusp of having a kind of a lateral promotion to take on new work, I mean.

Speaker 1 30:37

I love learning.

Speaker 3 30:37

I love solving problems. That's core to why I originally became an engineer anyway, right, and so I just it didn't feel like the timing was right and I remember you saying well, what if you just have a, you know, a conversation? And that's, I think, the power of having a network right, and when we talk about seeing people like you, right, like Becky, is that for me she's been a role model throughout and so I did, and for me also it's been absolutely a wonderful decision, because I think the the nonlinear path that my career has taken will sometimes imposter syndrome me because I'm thinking, gosh, you know I didn't. I never actually became a materials engineer. I went right into quality engineering and then I loved everything to do about process improvement, getting my hands on a, on a product and a manufacturing line.

Speaker 3 31:35

I worked for a defense contracting facility in Vermont that you know I would travel and that was my favorite part was to go to the manufacturing facility and see you know the eight wastes and get in and how can this be better? Where can this be more efficient Like that? Just, you want to talk about lighting a spark.

Speaker 1 31:54

That was my spark right.

Speaker 3 31:56

I absolutely loved and I loved the people part right, being able to interact with people, and I think that's where I finally had that light bulb for my own career of I think I want to be in leadership too right, and so I think that's an important part of it, too is that it can be technical, but, like you were saying, becky, it also leads to, you know, that ability to be a leader of people. And although maybe I'm not doing technical engineering work at the, my current place of employment, you know I lead a team of project managers that are making a difference and we're solving problems and we actually still look at process Right, and so anyway, just I wanted to highlight, that is that we can doubt ourselves a lot.

Speaker 1 32:41

Right.

Speaker 3 32:43

But when I look back I'm like no all of those were the right little pivots. Right, like those were all the right pivots to get me where I am today.

Speaker 1 32:52

OK, so I want to pause here. So it's interesting because when I've had conversations with Pat about you Becky, she said that she was in a conversation with you when she first met you and she said I have to have that, I have to have Becky on our advisory board the way she solves problems, how she thinks about things. So Pat, seeing that in you and tapping you on the shoulder right, led to you being like, well, how do I define success? Maybe I can do this. What does this look like? And then you tapping Kate and saying, well, how do I define success? Maybe I can do this. What does this look like? And then you tapping Kate and saying, well, let's just have a conversation. Something's tickling in the back of my mind about you hiring Kate and that story.

Speaker 2 33:31

Can we talk about that? Okay, let's talk about that, okay. So I, you know, I just knew right away with the first interview that I had with Kate that I'm like yes, absolutely, she's the one. I have to do whatever I can to get this woman on my team. She's just going to be a rock star. I know it. And after our interview, she called me, or maybe through HR, and said that she would love to join. However, that you would like to come part-time because you're pregnant and that shortly you'll be having, within like three months, yeah, you'll be having a baby boy and so you'll be going on maternity leave, but you'll need some accommodations for the work schedule. Absolutely, in my head, I'm absolutely, you know, problem whatsoever, right, I, we both have sons that are the exact same age.

Speaker 2 34:25

So I think our, uh, your Jackson and my son Liam uh, we're both, I think, three or something at the time. And so I knew, I just knew that that would be a perfectly reasonable accommodation. And when I talked to my boss at the time, he said oh no, I don't, I don't know about this, I don't think so. We need this position to be full-time. And I said we are hiring her.

Speaker 3 34:48

I know I've had this feeling.

Speaker 2 34:51

I just absolutely knew that she was going to outperform all of the continuous improvement quality engineers on my team, even working part-time. I just knew it and I was right, thank you. I was right, and so they did allow us to hire her at part-time and, of course, it worked out so well, thank, you, yeah, and, by the way, I just wanted part-time was 35 hours. I just needed an hour a day to make sure I went and picked up my kid from daycare.

Speaker 3 35:20

But isn't it interesting that, like I don't know if we can do a part time position, we're like, no, we are doing it and I didn't know, by the way, until whatever it was like six months ago when we first tagged up on this topic, that you were such an advocate for me, right, and so thank you for doing that behind the scenes too, because I don't know. It just speaks volumes of your character that you did it for me. Obviously, you did it for you too, because you saw something in me, but just thank you for your advocacy, yeah.

Speaker 3 35:46

But yeah, so I, that was that's really big for me and I I would love to highlight that that theme of kind of paying forward to is that people that set examples for you. You know, ie Becky for me. I had the same experience where I interviewed someone amazing for my current team of project managers and same thing, right, I got that. You know, I'm not that she was looking to work part time, but just hey, I'm going to go out on maternity leave within a few months. And it was a no-brainer right Of, absolutely like that's not even a thing. And I remember being so uncomfortable right that I went in and I'm like I think I told almost everyone and HR's like I don't, we don't mind that you're pregnant, and I'm thinking like, but everybody needs to know right and now I know as a you know, a manager, I'm like she didn't want to touch that from an hr perspective, right um, but just that's part of that.

Speaker 3 36:52

You know, sense of community, having people around you to support you is so important, yeah, solving big problems in that way.

Speaker 1 37:00

I love that you stood up to your boss and you're like no, we, we are finding a way to hire, and I love that you said I do need accommodations right On both sides, right? Okay, ladies, I've loved our conversation. I wish we could continue. I'm sure that we have other things to say, but in closing, would you just share what guidance would you give to girls or moms right who are helping those girls or dads who want to pursue jobs in heavily male industries?

Speaker 2 37:26

Well, I'll just, I'll be quick. I think it comes down to knowing your strengths and your own uniqueness, and you don't have to be a chameleon, you don't have to act like all the other men in the room. You can be yourself and and recognize the value you bring to the table and that they want you there at the table. Um, talk to others who have been there. You know um form a network of allies and mentors, both peers as well as leaders. I think it matters that you have peers that are your allies, that are both men and women and um and leaders and mentors as well.

Speaker 2 38:07

Uh, I'd also say don't try to outwork everybody. You know that's that's not. That's not going to get you there. You know Um and uh. You just need to be true to yourself and um and know what roles you want to go for, know whether you really want to climb the corporate ladder or go lateral you know lateral is just great as well. I did many moves that way or a complete career shift, you know. So some introspective introspection on the roles that you want to take and be mindful. You don't have to take every job that's offered to you.

Speaker 1 38:47

You know you can say no.

Speaker 2 38:49

Yes, yeah, so yeah. So, ladies, go out there and get it. Yeah, go out there and get, get what you want.

Speaker 3 38:56

Plus one to what Becky said, that we are so similar, because that's really what I kind of wrote down to myself too in answer to this is that I think I could sit here all day and the advice that I gave my own self which is funny, right, nobody really gives themselves advice, we just ruminate about things. Just ruminate about things, as I went up through my own navigation of engineering and career, is that you know you don't have to, like you were saying, work harder, be competitive, be that chameleon that tries to fit in.

Speaker 3 39:33

Like we were talking about like wearing the you know, the mock turtleneck and you know like the steel toed shoes, although I will say I still have some of my closet from my first job. Um, but that you know that really diminishes, I think, people's how they show up what they're passionate and excited about.

Speaker 3 39:56

Like you said, we both kind of have these light up moments about what we've found passion about that's in there for every girl, right, that is navigating where they want to go, and it's hard because you might not know what you want to do, but you feel this huge pressure that you have to have it figured out super fast, right. And I just want to reiterate that part of how incredible that engineering field is because it gives you so many options and well-paying options Exactly.

Speaker 3 40:26

Right, and you can find some advocacy along the way like a Becky right. Like I've passed it forward to my folks around me too, that flexibility is key. Whether, like you're saying, you're male, you're female right, we eventually get to the point where we want to have families and you can do it all right that is all possible.

Speaker 3 40:46

The other part that I think is so important too, is that, just because I think you get so many stats thrown at you, right, that like, well, you're one in four, you're one in three, right, that's how I felt, at least Right, and I think I wish somebody had flipped that and been like, well, no, you're not, cause when I went to RPI, I was one of four right In in my classes, and think of that percentage as space for diversity, right, like that's a space that needs to be filled, not that is diminishing what you are.

Speaker 1 41:26

And so.

Speaker 3 41:26

I wish that's something that I could have flipped in my perspective is instead of just me getting these places because I'm a girl it's because I'm bringing a diverse set of things to a space that needs it, and so I think that goes beyond just female right. That's any diversity space that you might feel you're in. Your differences, make a difference.

Celebrating Mutual Support in Leadership

Speaker 1 41:51

Here here, sister, which is so important Brilliant. I love that. That is a perfect note to end on the value you bring. So thank you so much, ladies, for coming. I appreciate your time and being engaging, watching your relationship together, how you've helped each other. It's just been brilliant, Thank you.

Speaker 2 42:11

Thank you for the opportunity. It's been awesome yeah.