Accountability Corner
Embark on an adventure with Darren, Morgan, and Chris, the dynamic trio steering the ship at "Accountability Corner." As passionate OCR enthusiasts, they're on a mission to share their expertise and enthusiasm for obstacle course racing with the world. From sharing insider tips on overcoming training plateaus to demystifying the complexities of race registration and gear selection, no stone is left unturned. Whether you're a seasoned competitor hungry for fresh perspectives or a newcomer eager to dip your toes into the muddy waters of OCR, these hosts are here to guide you every step of the way. Join them as they peel back the curtain on the electrifying world of OCR, revealing stories of triumph, camaraderie, and boundless adventure.
Don't miss out – tune in and discover why OCR is capturing hearts and minds around the globe!
Accountability Corner
#37: Your Questions Answered
What if mastering grip strength could revolutionize your obstacle course racing (OCR) game? Tune in as Morgan Maxwell, Chris Shipley, and Darren Martin bring you an episode brimming with insights and personal updates, including Morgan's exciting move to Sheffield and the thrill of hosting friends in his new flat. We share a blend of humor and practical advice, offering training tips from farmer's holds and carries to innovative techniques like using tea towels on pull-up bars. Whether you're an OCR novice or a seasoned pro, this episode promises to elevate your performance with actionable strategies.
Prepare to be enlightened by our exploration of shoe rotation for OCR, a critical strategy for injury prevention and performance enhancement. Navigating through the benefits of maintaining a diverse footwear collection, we discuss options like the Mudclaw, X-talon, Endorphin Edge, and Speedgoats, guiding you in selecting the perfect pair for every terrain. Our conversation uncovers the secrets to staying agile and injury-free, ensuring you're equipped to conquer any course with confidence.
Our discussion shifts to the synergy between training, nutrition, and mental fortitude essential for OCR success. We examine personal experiences and expert insights into balancing speed work with endurance runs, and the impact of clean eating on performance. The episode wraps up with a heartfelt invitation to listeners to engage with us, fostering a community of accountability and shared growth. Join us in this dynamic discussion, and discover how to optimize your OCR journey both on and off the course.
Welcome to the Accountability Corner, where we talk about everything obstacle course racing, from staying disciplined in training, affording the sport, signing up for your first race and, more importantly, how the sport is growing around the world, with your hosts Morgan Maxwell, chris Shipley and Darren Martin.
Speaker 2:Let's go. Episode 37, accountability Corner. I can't intro it with the enthusiasm that Finlay does because I just haven't got that in me, but I think that was a good intro for us.
Speaker 1:It was pretty good. I think we're coming along with the intros. We've just got to get rid of the rambling.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, we should do it. We should actually give it a go. We'll just channel Finlay vibes for a whole episode. Okay, guys, right, so we have morgan maxwell, specialist ocr racer. Phenomenal on the trails, great on the obstacles.
Speaker 1:Christopher shipley loves the shipley shuffle I was gonna say I was going to say Freaking the Sheets? No, was it Freaking the Hills?
Speaker 3:no, Definitely well, I don't know if you are a freak in the sheets.
Speaker 1:I am a freak in the sheets. Alright, let's not.
Speaker 2:Start it off like that. We're only joking, finn. Absolutely love, love, the Enthusiasm you bring to everything. Start it off like that, all right, no, we're only only joking, finn, absolutely love, um, love, the uh enthusiasm you bring to everything. Never lose it. No, um, how are you two?
Speaker 1:yeah, sound as a pound, yeah, yeah yeah pretty good.
Speaker 2:Are you eating yeah?
Speaker 3:bringing it back it's been a while since Mo's eaten.
Speaker 1:It is actually yeah.
Speaker 3:I've got a lot going on tonight, so I'm just gonna just don't mind me, I'll be in and out muting that's like the last supper, isn't it? Yeah, well it's not but yeah, this will be the last time we record the podcast in this room. For me, next time we record the podcast, I won't be in this room, I'll be somewhere else.
Speaker 2:Well, when people listen to this, you'll be packed up and you'll be in Sheffield, won't you?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, when this episode's out, we would have probably recorded episodes in the new room but I will be in Sheffield yeah.
Speaker 2:That's exciting.
Speaker 3:That's exciting, and you guys can crush the peaks with me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, did you hear Ships? I actually spoke to him about what flat he's got. He's got a two-bed flat. A two-bed flat oh, that's for us, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 3:Well, I'm not very good at making friends, so I thought I need to go to two beds so my friends can come and see me. Yeah, and then, that way I will never be lonely. Will you cook for us?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Huh, what would you cook for us?
Speaker 3:I would say Chiara, what are you cooking? I would say, chiara, what are you cooking? Chiara's Italian as well. So it'd be really good oh she's a really good cook as well. Oh, we're coming up.
Speaker 2:Just need big portion size. Shipley's always disappointed with portion sizes, oh yeah, big portion sizes Definitely. The only thing is.
Speaker 3:Shipley after Italy. I don't know how Shipley's stomach will handle it oh yeah, I'm back on with pizzas and stuff.
Speaker 1:It was only because we had it every day, and the attitude and the amount of coffee you had yeah, and the attitude, the attitude right.
Speaker 2:so today, today's episode, we wanted to just just have a bit of a ramble, bit of a ramble, a bit of a waffle through things, but we can direct it towards Q&A. We can actually call this a Q&A episode, can't we? We're going to answer some questions that may not have been answered in the past, and, yes, we haven't just made these up. We do have fans that send us questions, but they sometimes ask ask, because I like putting our social media pictures up with you too, when you just put your tops off and then putting questions over your shorts so it looks like you're streaking. So I do get questions are you naked?
Speaker 2:but we'll leave them once one of these days we will be do you know there's a question about the 3k races, but I think we we have really banged on about 3k and probably that's the last time I'm going to mention 3k in this episode, because people are getting bored of us saying 3k right, so you ready for this one? Yeah, best way to train grip and I'm assuming that's training grip for OCR- I know I can answer this one straight away. No, mo you answer it.
Speaker 3:No, I wasn't going to be Become a scaffolder.
Speaker 1:No, I wasn't. Actually. There's only one piece of thing, sorry. Two pieces of equipment you need, yeah, is a tea towel, or two tea towels and a pull-up bar.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've done that. I've brought them into gyms. Like you know, sweat towels you get.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's the only way. That's the best way you can train grip and then just do pull-ups but twist your grip. So when you're doing pull-ups, twist your hands in and out as you're going up and down on this yeah yeah, see, that'll make you an absolute animal?
Speaker 3:it will, but most people can't do that yet. So we're going to strip that right back and the best way to train your grip as a beginner, I personally think is farmer's holds or farmer's carries, because you can really tax the grip and you can really work the grip. If we're talking pure just hanging strength grip wise, especially if you can't really hang yet or you can't do pull-ups, that's a very good alternative because most people can pick up two kettlebells or dumbbells and hold them.
Speaker 1:Do you think there should be a ranking of when you should like go up a thing? So like when you can open a certain amount of jam jars, you're on the next level of strength grip and then when you can like I don't know open medicine without having to pop the top, you can just turn it, or bottle caps or something.
Speaker 2:That's when you're like in the next level jared the issue is telling people that you train grip is that when you can't open those jam jars at all, or, like you've been the, you'll be in the kitchen and, like lorna's mom asked me open a jar or something, he'd be like baron trains grip. Maybe I open this and you're like I can't do it, but I train this all the time. Why can't I open this bloody jam jar?
Speaker 2:yeah no, I get um mo, your one's good. I used to use, uh, kettle, kettlebell, calories and stuff like that to train grip. The only thing that, so I'm assuming this question is asking because grip strength is is good for, obviously, hanging obstacles and making sure you don't fall off so that trains grip. I don't think that gets you ready for that hanging sensation that people don't like when you're using the grip. And also, the biggest question people get asked is that leads into this that how many pull-ups should I be able to do for OCR, I would actually say one and to train grip grip, I don't mind a dead hang. I'm here for a dead hang. It's good for grip strength, but it's only one version of grip strength, isn't it because there's different, different grips? Crimp grip, that's all I've got I think there's.
Speaker 3:I think it builds up, I depending on, especially for men that are quite heavy coming into the sport in the beginning. It can be quite easy to get injured by doing loads and loads of dead hanging. I've seen it quite a few times now. What shoulders, shoulders, even forearms, just general kind of wear and tear, elbows as well, anything really. But by doing a specific amount of hang-ins, tendons you normally find it's normally like tendonitis in the elbow and things like that. But I'd say, starting with something like even just weight work because deadlifting, lifting bars, lifting things, that'll be a good start.
Speaker 1:I've found that Most of the things you lift as soon as you're picking things up with your hands, that is inertly grip strength, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Right, rapid fire. So, mo, you're going with kettlebells and anything carrying based for someone coming into the sport to get their strip grip strength.
Speaker 1:I like that strip grip.
Speaker 2:I'm going to go right in the middle and say that you need to do dead hangs but also release one hand and then release the other hand on the bar, so you're kind of like swaying slightly. So you get that sensation of one arm grip and then you can escalate to actually switching your grips around and then, once you can do that, then you move into putting towels on things and using your grip strength that way. Yeah, that's that. You don't even need an obstacle gym to do that. I know where we we wanted to promote training centers, but you just need a bar.
Speaker 1:Yeah get that bar you.
Speaker 2:You could actually, you could actually get to the european championships with just a bar. I reckon, I reckon you could do it, yeah, yeah especially the way the euros is now yeah, definitely right best way to train grip. Would you to chips? You're like saying that is your best way you train grip. Mo, you've said for beginners but what is your best way of training grip? How did what trains your grip the best?
Speaker 3:uh doing obstacles, doing just holding weird things like chess pieces and uh grenades and different attachments that are just a bit awkward it, do you know?
Speaker 2:do you know what my one is is just doing gym work, like you said, lifting bars and things, and not putting the weight down all the time. Like you know, when you lift like a dumbbell up and you're doing, maybe you're doing curls, like keep, keep holding it in between, when you're resting, then go again. That's really good for your grip strength.
Speaker 1:That's what I tend to do yep, plenty of grip programs out there as well, so you can always look at one of them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh yeah, leon's got a good one, hasn't he? Yeah, and the Rhino, the Rhino's got a grip program, I think as well. All right, let's go to another one. Mo, this one's for you. How many shoes should you have in rotation? And what do we mean by rotation? Just for any any listeners out there that don't know what we mean? Mo, can you tell us once you stopped eating? Give us a second listeners, he's just finishing. And three, two, one, he's on.
Speaker 3:So shoe rotations right, without talking loads and loads about shoe rotations, the main thing a shoe rotation is is a multitude of shoes that you wear, either different things, or just to stop wear and tear on one singular pair of shoe by obviously rotating, so wearing them on different days. Um, the main reason shoe rotations are used for, like I said, different styles of training. So obviously, when you're training for obstacle course racing especially, but you can just run in, you do loads of different types of running, so you have more like fast stuff, you have trail running, you have road running, you have, um, really slow, easy runs, recovery runs, and shoe companies have done this brilliant thing of making shoes for everything, which makes it very confusing for an athlete. But it also, if you're a consumer like me, you have loads of pairs, which is handy, and I think that is pretty much what a shoe rotation is. Do you guys want to expand on how many pairs and stuff?
Speaker 2:I just wanted to caveat it that we're going to go in quite a lot into this, how many shoes we have in rotation. But the reason we have a shoe rotation is to get marginal gains and the best of our ability out of certain situations. Now, if you're in coming into like the sport for the first time, a good pair of trail shoes would be good for you and then that's it. Don't just think, just think trail shoes, that's it. So you need to know. But we like to go to the nitty-gritty of what make what brings out the best in us, and a shoe choice can do that, as seen last month at the 3k championships it's also injury prevention as well.
Speaker 3:If you're running in the same pair of shoe all the time, depending on that shoe might depend on how kind of you run in that shoe and how your style runs. For example, the new super shoes can seem to move your stride in some ways that people aren't used to. So if you've only got a pair of super shoes and you're doing all your mileage in them, you probably find that you get injured quite quickly most people Also. Once your shoe wears down, you can start getting injuries because the shoe's not built the way it's supposed to be. So having a shoe rotation elongates that process.
Speaker 2:Keep this to OCR for the minute. Yeah, because I know we can go a bit further with the. How many shoes we have in rotation, Mo? How many OCR shoes do you have in rotation? Yeah?
Speaker 3:that's a tough question.
Speaker 2:Are we talking specifically trail or just anything you would consider you would use it for use at an OCR race or venue.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I want to say four or five yeah, I'm at about six yeah, maybe potentially six. Yeah, oh, seven, six. Yeah, I'm at about six. Yeah, maybe Potentially six.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so on ships you're at six. It's now six. Yeah, We've kind of have explained the question. It was like, how many shoes do you have in rotation? But then it was like, how many should I have? And that is, you can have as many as that are good for that course so I think you can get away with three.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think you need a shoe for the wet yeah so something that's good with mud. What so the lugs like a bigger lug yeah, you need something with a bigger lug, with a bit more heavier. Good for drainage as well. Normally with a shoe like that, it typically has better drainage, so that would be my number one so like what's that?
Speaker 2:what kind of shoe would that be?
Speaker 3:like a mud claw, or even like a bji rock, or yeah, um the extreme as well 290s, adidas terex 290s.
Speaker 2:Do a four mil lug um shoe as well, and that's good for it. And then you've got your standard Speedgoats everyone no, we're not for mud.
Speaker 3:They're not too bad in the mud, though no, I'm talking, you want a wet shoe, basically a shoe for a CR.
Speaker 2:You're happy for nuts.
Speaker 1:X-talons yes, everyone used to have the innovative X-talons there you go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, everyone used to have an X-talon. And tell you what? I used to have them, but they're not comfortable to run in, but they are grippy. You're not going to move much in those. Yeah, that's mud and wet, dry slop you end on a dry.
Speaker 1:It's going to be a bit more like a road shoe, but with a little bit more grip yeah, it tends to be a bit more because when it's dry it is usually hard underfoot in it yeah, I mean you could probably get away with a road shoe as well.
Speaker 3:But I'd say, if you want a bit more of a trail option, you want something like I mean me and Darren like the Endorphin Edge. You've got something like the VJ Max or even the Lightspeed I think it's called that new Lightspeed, the white ones I can't remember the name. I think it's that I like speed the white ones. I can't remember the name.
Speaker 1:I think it's like I like the cat amount, twos for dry.
Speaker 3:Cat amount twos yeah, good, good option. Um speed goats down to the murder. They're a good option in the dry, especially for something long Like if you're doing like a real long Spartan beast but you don't see me dry.
Speaker 2:You've added another category in there because I'm just thinking actually I'd have a shoe for long, hard downhills to protect my legs, but sorry.
Speaker 3:I think we can just kind of blend that into one category. If you get a good shoe for the dry that can also handle long races, you can kind of you can blend that category into one, I guess, if we're trying to really keep it minimal.
Speaker 2:We would all say with rest on the hill. I would say the Speedgoat is a great shoe all-rounder for that sort of style.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100%. It's actually a really good entry-level shoe as well. I think, most people start off with a Speedgoat, but always you know, you know you got to check these things. Make sure they fit on your feet and feel comfortable. That's the main thing, because I think even with all shoe rotation, that comes down to, the main point is as long as they go on your feet and comfortable what was your third it would be kind of in the middle of that.
Speaker 3:So where it's going to be a bit more, where there's a little bit more grips required. So it's not going to be real mud slop, but it's still going to be slippy in areas and a bit kind of mushy underfoot. But also you don't need the excessive grip and you also want it to be light. So this is where the kind of Adidas T-Rex 190s come in for me, where it's going to be a fast shoe. You don't want it on hard pack because it's not going to work well with pounding on your legs really. So you want it where it's like soft grass or kind of soft, but not slippy, sliffy.
Speaker 1:Sliff slippy, sliffy sliffy other shoes like the vj sparks. Is that what you run in?
Speaker 3:yeah, I like the sparks.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's another good shoe for this sort of category I also use that for a conditioning shoe yeah when I'm getting so, when I'm like running and I like to get a bit of damage in my feet, just so it sort of recovers, and then I'm used to pounding, but then I'd also like a recovery shoe as well which is a bit softer. We could go on about it. For that there's so many categories and that is why you have a shoe rotation.
Speaker 2:Yeah because, you can you can have. You can start your categories with the race and terrain type, or you could start your category with what you want from your body that day, or you could start with what training mechanics you need or metrics or impact you need for that day. So there's like three different categories you can hit and it's like or the category is that I don't care about all of that, I just want pure performance, and that's where obviously carbon is coming.
Speaker 1:Or just super foam, super foam yeah.
Speaker 3:And carbon on the OCR course, as I've been testing out a little bit, is. I think it's going to be a thing. I think so. Some trail runs, especially I mean you see it a lot in Spa and especially where it's not as muddy, you can get some carbons on your feet and manage the obstacles perfectly fine.
Speaker 2:Well, I can definitely see, obviously, if people are going to Gothenburg next year for the World Championships, I really really think that is going to be a carbon um, carbon plated shoes Gonna gonna be the right shoe for that course. I've seen some videos of it. It's flat, it's a park, it's got little bit of um like um, it's like, it's like foresty sort of like ground, like rooted ground, but it's still hard packed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, bit of road on there, bit of well, bit of everything really.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we'll be testing carbon plated trail shoes, I think a bit more the ones we've got at the minute. What are they called?
Speaker 3:No, Well, we've got the Endorphin Edge, which is a trail carbon shoe, but it's a little bit different, I think for goffenberg I'm going to have a full-on road carbon super shoe, but it also not an alpha fly, because I think they're too big for ocr some of the obstacles and they're good in one plane of motion yeah, so I've been testing similar to kind of probably what a higher ox athlete does, testing more kind of slim line or just some other options that are on the market.
Speaker 2:I think actually could really work for ocr yeah, there's loads of courses that will come into play now with that obviously, nuts challenge, challenge cart, all of those. They are traditional ocr where you just need a good, good, grippy road, um trail shoe, but there's a lot of Spartans out there, a lot of your championship races that are going into parks, which is flat, like imagine um, you could actually have got away with um alpha fly at uh Hungary.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think some people even did.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it didn't turn much, did it.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:Well.
Speaker 3:Igor, the world champs, won it in a pair of Adios Pros, which is the Adidas road shoe.
Speaker 1:This goes to show, doesn't it? It's all about testing and testing to see what's going to work, because, at the end of the day, the shoes are the only marginal gain that we're going to get in this game, apart from fitness.
Speaker 2:I was going to ask you that. Add a bit of questioning to it. Do you think shoes actually make a difference in OCR as they do in road racing?
Speaker 1:then, if you choose correctly, If you choose correctly, especially with OCR, because you could have something that gives you better grip over the multiple terrain. You've got something that will protect your feet over multiple terrain. You've got things that all could help spring you up. Just make you a little bit faster on bits, make you more sustainable to last the race longer. There is gains there.
Speaker 3:It might not necessarily be just running faster, but there is gains to be had, yeah I actually think it's more important because, yeah, any road shoe carbon obviously in the road world is becoming like the thing and it's getting people pds and stuff. But most companies make good just road shoes.
Speaker 2:So if you pick up a running shoe from a running store it's going to do a job, whereas if you try and then wear that on a muddy course, that same shoe and then ocr course, you're gonna be ruined because we haven't got like a mass field at the minute, so you're not seeing these seconds between races that you do in road running, but as soon as you start seeing that more and more shoes and the choice choice of everything is going to play such such an important role in your performance, and we we do see it slightly now, like we see it, because we talk about so much, but what we're trying to say is that, yes, you should have a shoe rotation, you should be choosing why you have that shoe rotation, understand why you've got so many shoes. Obviously, collecting them is fun, but you should have you should. You should have an idea of what you're using them for and how they make you feel in your body so you can get that certain performance out of yourself and they do make a difference yeah, I like that.
Speaker 2:I think, just the last little no oh, you want to add a little bit more no.
Speaker 3:But just to go back on your point of like going to make a deal, I think at the top right now every single person even in the UK elite scene is studying shoes like and they're getting really nerdy with it because I think it's getting to a point now where it does matter massively. So if you want to start being competitive, I think that's especially where you need a shoe rotation. You really need to start learning kind of what you're comfortable with but also what the race demands are well, and if you are competitive, you're training on different.
Speaker 1:You're looking at the race that you're going to be racing at, so you're trying to work out what's going to be best on that terrain.
Speaker 2:So I even think Lisbon is going to be a super shoe.
Speaker 3:I think next year is going to be the year of the super shoe.
Speaker 2:I really do Flat trail super shoe. I reckon the ones we've I keep forgetting the ones we've got the ones we've got are good A Saccone.
Speaker 3:A Saccone. No, I'm going pure After the road.
Speaker 2:So me and.
Speaker 3:Darren ran a road race recently and I wore them on a road race and they worked. But if that's the terrain, I think that's the terrain that actually we're going to see at the World Champs. It was like a. It wasn't a trail road, it wasn't a trail race, it was a road race, but it was like a lot of gravel paths.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Parkland kind of stuff, and I think, yeah, this is going to be next year is the year of the super shoe, 100%, I'm calling it now.
Speaker 2:Are we going to stay biased towards OCR and leave road running and other running out of this? Then this conversation yeah.
Speaker 1:This is an OCR and leave road running and other running out of this.
Speaker 3:Then this conversation yeah, this is an OCR podcast. Yeah, well, we've already said we're gonna be quick fire and we've probably spent quite a long time discussing that.
Speaker 2:So if let's let's lead the lead this on a little into the same conversation, then. So we're looking at marginal gains and obstacle course racing and one question we also got is that should we focus, or should an obstacle athlete focus more on the running or on obstacle ability and efficiency? I can answer this very quickly based on how courses have changed throughout the years and how they're going. But you guys go.
Speaker 3:I think, on a kind of surface level, there's one answer, and it's going to be the cop-out answer, which is your weakness. Whatever your weakness is, you train it, you train that. But I also think I'd actually change the question. It's what are you racing?
Speaker 2:You can answer a question with a question. Yeah, I'd answer the question with a question.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'd answer the question with if, say, say, I was coaching this athlete and they come up to me and said what should I train more? I'd be like what's your A race?
Speaker 3:And if that A race is a 3k, and then we're not, so we're not going to speak about 3k today but if 3k we're going to look, start looking at obstacles and being efficient at getting in and out of obstacles and kind of what that looks like, and if it's not a 3k, we're probably going to look at you running. And then again, I think weakness comes first. If you're really strong on the obstacles but weak on the running, we start by building the running up, keeping your obstacle game strong, but building your running up. If you you're really bad at obstacles but you can run a bit, then you work your obstacles. But again, don't stop one completely. Still do both.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you could always be doing everything, but just trying to fit in what you need to be doing at the right time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you answered that better than I thought thought because I was going to go straight and just say running. But yeah, I get where you're coming from.
Speaker 3:It's the course dependent running's a big part of the sport and I think again, it depends on what level you're coming in at. If you've a lot of people come in because they enjoy the obstacles, they do that a lot at the beginning. So for most people it probably is running because they enjoy the obstacles. They do that a lot at the beginning. So for most people it probably is running because they've started to really work on their obstacles and that's what they enjoy. But some people are just good runners and they need to start working on their obstacles.
Speaker 1:It is a weird one though, because it should all be in a sort of hole. So you guys do what obstacles once once a week, I do every other week and then, but then you're still doing other things in between. So even your strength work, that's classing as basically your fundamentals for doing them. Obstacles. Later on you're doing maybe like a like a compromise session, which might not necessarily have obstacles in it, but it's still training your getting in and out of obstacles. So I think if you've got a good coach, then someone's going to sort of configure your training right for how your time is used and how you can train into things and get better over time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I like the question as well, because actually I said ability, efficiency. I think they're two different things as well. So people have some people have the ability to do obstacles, but they don't have the ability to do them efficiently. So so you you're kind of like, should I focus on running or obstacle ability? So if you don't have the ability to do obstacles, then yes, you should focus on that. And then you kind of like sway to more running because you can do obstacles. Then you focus on the running and then you're trying to look at the marginal gain. So you're looking at the efficiency to overcome them obstacles, quicker.
Speaker 3:It kind of swings as you progress as well. So you'll probably find, say, you're coming in and you're, you're an okay runner, but you've, you're falling off all the obstacles. You'd start with your obstacles and then you probably find you get to a point where, oh, I'm not failing as many obstacles now. That's probably a point where you start to shift a little bit more heavy to the running side. Then you're like, oh, I'm really running well and I just need to be more efficient. And then you go back to the obstacles and kind of, I mean, it all ties in together, but it does have a flow that works exactly the same for the other way around, doesn't it?
Speaker 2:yeah, so hard to get right. You, you guys have been there and we've all been there. You, you focus on one and you're like, oh, I'm so quick, now I can do a 10K at this time. And then you go to an obstacle course race and you fall off the monkey bars Like, hang on, I used to be able to do those. What's going on? Oh, I focus on the running too much. I go back and do obstacles again. Hang on, my 10K time's gone. Rubbish now. Now, but I can do monkey bars. That right, I need to find a balance and act here.
Speaker 1:I need to try to get this. Don't do do this properly. It is difficult. I think we've constantly battled for that balance over the years. It isn't easy and it's it's. It's become a lot easier, I suppose, with the influx of more training centers and the knowledge that we've gained over the years on where we can train the obstacles and how we can get obstacles in and then putting the running on top of it well, I'll follow up this question with a question.
Speaker 2:So if, if that listener is listening to this podcast today, uh, could they let us know what race they are doing and we will answer it more specifically, because?
Speaker 1:if they tell us what race they're doing.
Speaker 2:We'll tell them if running or obstacle course race they are doing and we will answer it more specifically, Because if they tell us what race they're doing, we'll tell them if running or obstacle course race Obstacles is the one to focus on. I've got just a blanket question.
Speaker 1:How to get faster.
Speaker 2:How to get faster Shoes.
Speaker 3:Shoes, shoes, nowadays.
Speaker 2:Go back, go back five minutes.
Speaker 3:Rewind. Yeah, yeah, shoes.
Speaker 1:Consistency.
Speaker 3:Consistency. I'd say, yeah, like working on your running, naturally working on your running.
Speaker 1:Putting the time in working, yeah.
Speaker 3:Time on feet building that engine is important and sometimes it's the safest way rather than just doing loads and loads of intensity. Sometimes doing intensity will get you really like quick, quickly.
Speaker 1:But if you're not used to it. Yeah, I'm actually listening to a really interesting book at the moment called uh, what's it called? Hang on, I'll tell you.
Speaker 2:Tell you, peak, it's all about sports science I think I've listened to you listening to it yeah, yeah, I, I wanted to say read, yeah, audio I think, I think I've listened to that. It's really good it's quite scientific.
Speaker 3:I don't think I've heard of that one. I might have to give that a go it's on spotify, where we are also on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're on spotify and all other, all other platforms, but yeah consistency, training, discipline those are all the three things that will get you faster or a car it comes back to your last question as well.
Speaker 3:I think if you're doing constant speed work and you're not seeing much improvement, you might need to start taking your runs a little bit longer and working on just some time on feet stuff. If you're just doing like long miles and time on feet, you probably want to do the opposite and try and do some speed work and see if that shifts the moves, the needle a bit yeah, I love that comment, like, I love that saying, like what moves the needle.
Speaker 2:But what I found through training and specifically training for to be an athlete, is that we are all so uniquely different yeah, so what moves my needle in terms of speed is so different to what moves Shipley.
Speaker 2:So recently I've said on this podcast, I wanted to revamp all my training and I spoke to Dave and we've gone for a whole two months of training and we've gone back to speed work in an endurance, sort of like building phase, and it's just made. That's doing all that spicy fart like and intervals are just, they just move my needle because they just make me faster. But I do and tell you what I can't let go of them. They need to always be there. That's what I, because I go. Obviously, in training you go through phases, don't you? And then I sometimes leave that behind and then go into maybe an endurance phase or base building phase. But now I know that even in my base building phase to be fast, I still need to have a bit of spice in it. That's what moves my needle, but that's different for you too as well, isn't it? Yeah?
Speaker 3:I'm the complete opposite. Yeah, I need. If I'm not doing my long runs, I'll start to struggle getting quicker.
Speaker 1:Yeah, my I'll start to struggle getting quicker. Yeah, my long runs well, my fast runs are long runs anyway, like mile repeats and stuff yeah, yeah, it's crazy, it's crazy.
Speaker 2:So to get faster, you again. We're not putting this back on to the question, but you need to work out what moves, moves the needle for you, and then you need to consistently build into that and use it and if you've been consistently doing one thing and you've kind of started to plateau and like you're not getting quicker, it's probably time to change things up and see if that changes things yeah, is here's one. How important is diet for training?
Speaker 1:very important it's not just important for do you know right?
Speaker 1:oh, I've got something, I'm just gonna mute myself and let him go I'll probably get some of this wrong and raf kill me, but your gut microbiome is the most important thing you can have, because if that's not working correctly, then all your bodily functions, like your mitochondria and all other bits and pieces of big fancy names that I cannot remember, won't be firing. So eating not like the right stuff, but just having your guts working correctly, means that your whole body is working correctly. You can recover from training hard because you're able to take in the food and use it right or whatever she says, and there's loads of other bits. But yes, diet. Do you know what? Since I've been with Raf, my diet's improved dramatically and I get sick less, I recover better, I sleep better, I look better, I smell better. What else do I do? Yeah, that's about it. It's very important and it's not complicated. You just can't eat processed food. Cut them out.
Speaker 3:I think we need to get Raph on one day, would she be?
Speaker 1:up for that? That, yeah, she'd be up for that.
Speaker 3:I think that's a good. We'll give her a gas card that is my.
Speaker 2:Why have we never thought about?
Speaker 1:that. So it is actually on the list, all right. But um, yeah, if anyone does want any nutritional advice, it's probably not best to come to me because I butcher everything she tells me, but she is actually a qualified nutritional therapist so she does actually have some uh words of wisdom, and you can find her at some races shouting at me well she I'll plug her.
Speaker 3:She helped me a lot, so she maybe well asked me to make some change or kind of look to my diet and made some changes and stuff.
Speaker 1:I mean, I'm incredibly lazy so and a lot of it was down to me not always following, but she definitely did help yeah, I mean, look at all the other people that followed good diet, that follows a very strict, clean diet, and look at him. He's ancient and he looks pretty good and he races. Well, it's there. And longevity, you don't? I mean, everything starts in the gut and if it's not working correctly, things are gonna go worse off.
Speaker 2:Yeah, best thing, I best bit of advice I could ever give, which is what you said ships is cutting out processed food yeah, yeah, it doesn't have to be complicated, really.
Speaker 1:That is just a. The key thing isn't it? Just try and eat it. And it's really difficult at this day and age because, because, like it's not really easy to get good quality food, because obviously over farming, the soils and things in, like the way that they they process even fruit and vegetables now is covered in like what do they call that stuff? Pesticides, pesticides and things. So you know it's not easy. Water you drink out the taps, not good. So you know it does take a bit, but once, once you try and eat a bit clean, it just dramatically changes things and it's made me a 10 times better athlete, so that's like.
Speaker 2:The other question was like how, how important is diet for training? We aren't when we talk. When I talk about diet, I'm not talking about I'm having my protein shakes, I I'm having supplements. I don't have any of that stuff really that much. I'm just eating real good food, like just good mix of food, like just, for instance, like in the morning I'm having like nuts, seeds, dates, like fruit kefir, little bit of local honey, perfect breakfast that really feeds the microbiome. Best meal you've got all control over is your breakfast. Get that right and even if you mess up during the day, at least you know you've had one good meal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they say the biggest thing that you can control in an athlete's training is your diet. So if you get that right, then you're on to a winner.
Speaker 2:Yeah, mo.
Speaker 3:Mic drop.
Speaker 2:I know I was waiting for you to tell us about your diet.
Speaker 3:Oh, I just put the kit kat down.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this thing is, though. You, we are athlete. Well, I say we're athletes, we are aspiring athletes, which gives us the option to like. It doesn't mean we have to eat clean all the time. I love a chocolate bar and I love a burger oh chinese.
Speaker 2:love a burger, oh Chinese.
Speaker 3:Love a Chinese, do you know? One thing I would say is, before you buy a Ferragun or invest in an ice bath or a sauna, your diet has to be sorted. I think diet and sleep are the most underrated things, and I see on Instagram all the people trying to sell me stuff red light therapy things or random stuff and I'm like that is great, but make sure you've got your diet in check first, because otherwise it's pointless.
Speaker 1:I'm going to give a little rant, actually Go on. I'll tell you what peeps my peeve? Right? This is the thing that I see most people doing all the time. Right, they always feel bad about it, but everyone is always on a bloody monster, or they're on one of them shaky drinks or they're on those sort of things. Right, they are the worst things for you, and a lot of the stuff that's in the healthy section is full of loads of sugars and bad stuff. They think they're eating healthy, but they're not.
Speaker 2:Do you guys take protein shakes? No?
Speaker 3:I do, but just more for convenience to hit actual protein numbers. So I understand the fact that it's not the best, always source wise, but I'd rather get protein in than no protein at all. So for me it's just more of a convenience thing. If I can eat actual, real food, I will I.
Speaker 2:I do have it in the cupboard as emergency, like real really needed, but rarely. I would say get in a handful of nuts, that's better than a protein shake.
Speaker 1:You don't want to have too many nuts in a day. Yeah, well, because of the fat. No, because they're. They're hard to digest, like. Is it cardiogenic, carcinogenic? Carcinogenic Is that the word I'm looking for, raffy?
Speaker 2:What did she say? I don't know, she's not even in here.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes. I don't want to quote too much because it could be so far off the mark. Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 3:Something like that. I know like burnt toast, is carcinogenic.
Speaker 1:Maybe that's the one Anyway.
Speaker 2:But maybe that's as well. So right, let's summarise that how important is a diet for training?
Speaker 3:Very.
Speaker 2:Very important.
Speaker 3:See Raffy for more information.
Speaker 2:How do you stay accountable to your diet? Do you have any tricks? You two, because I'm addicted to chocolate and I find it so hard to not have chocolate.
Speaker 1:See, that's when I think it's not so bad, because I always seem to have a day where I can have stuff once a week, where I'm like not too bothered about stuff, and then, like most of the other time, I'm pretty clean yeah, I think there's like if you're 80% there, it's 20% can slip through the net.
Speaker 3:We do a lot of exercise. That helps, but I don't really stay accountable to my diet. But if I was going to stay accountable, to my diet.
Speaker 2:I was going to say that he started it off like oh yeah, I stay accountable to my diet.
Speaker 1:I'm very accountable to my diet.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 3:I'd say the best advice I've ever got or thing I've ever heard I can't even remember where I heard it from, but it was a rower that every time he went to eat something or do something, or basically every decision in his life, he said is this going to make the boat row faster? And if it didn't, he wouldn't touch it. And I think for me that works quite nice. Is this going to make me run faster or be a better athlete? And if not, then I don't touch it.
Speaker 2:I've done something similar lately. Well, since trying to eat better, is that asking myself every time I go have something that I don't know? Just asking myself is this food Like? Because, it seems like a stupid question to ask yourself. But you go have like a carrot cake. It's like, is this food? Well, no, it's not. It's not, it's made up ingredients, artificial ingredients made to make something taste nice.
Speaker 3:So, it's not food. Yeah, I like that. Yeah, I do think. Also, though the thing I like about the row rings up, example, is also for mental health. If you think, actually, today, this will make the boat row faster because I mentally need it. It's a bit of a gray area, but it almost is like oh no, today is the day that I need this to make me a better athlete, cause some days you also do. That's the other thing. We're not perfect. Like you can't, you can eat a hundred percent good all the time, but for most people, mentally it can be quite draining, because you'll smell the bakery and you'll see Greg's and you'll Do you get these days quite a lot?
Speaker 3:to you, mate. This is my everyday. I'm always smelling Greg's and then going straight in.
Speaker 1:That boat's going faster.
Speaker 3:My boat's sinking. I'm carrying the boat. Who's?
Speaker 1:going to carry the boat? Who's going to carry the?
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, I definitely need to be better, but yeah, um, hopefully that helps you guys. Maybe I should use my own advice no, it's good, it's good advice.
Speaker 2:I like it. Uh, trying to think, not trying to think of different questions. What other ones we got?
Speaker 3:suppose our lack of fans.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, lack of fans. We haven't asked people questions in a while. We did when we said we were going to do an extra episode after the Euros. People were very excited for race reviews or a week of training discussing how our training's been. That was something we got asked, but we can discuss that offline.
Speaker 3:Some things have to stay private.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was our training guide. Right, let's finish this up with some good one here it is. So if OCR didn't exist, what sport do you think you'd be doing instead Going back to the?
Speaker 3:diet question. I would just be like a fat oaf eating cupcakes and my sport would be like competitive eating or something you would do a sport, wouldn't you? No, I probably would, because I'm quite competitive, something that I could win at. I'd do any sport as long as I'm winning. I don't even enjoy OCR just because I'm good at it. I do it, so I just have to find something that I could be competitive in.
Speaker 1:Do you know I think I might, because I always think this I probably would resort back to rollerblading from when I was a kid. Yeah, I see, I see I see some people sort of like redoing it now and I always follow a lot of rollerbladers online and things and I think I do miss that. Do you see immy's brother does? He's downhill skateboarder? Yeah, he's so good. Sorry, that's so hurt you no, no, what sport?
Speaker 3:pick a sport basketball like I said, as long as I'm I know, I don't think I'd do a team sport running.
Speaker 2:I played basketball when I was younger.
Speaker 3:Yeah, is that a bit of a cop-out answer, though no I'd probably be a trail runner. I'd probably just be a trail runner. So I'm I'm a all right trail runner. You'll be a. I'll tell you what you'd be.
Speaker 1:You'd be a trail runner, because I'm an alright trail runner. You'll be a. I'll tell you what you'll be. You'll be a cake eater. Yeah, professional cake eater professional eater yeah.
Speaker 3:I don't know something like that he's an Avenger, isn't he? We see Mo online an Avenger no, you've got to be an Avenger, the blob that's actually a character mode, just so you know what did you do down?
Speaker 1:did you play football? Yeah?
Speaker 2:definitely go back to football.
Speaker 3:Loved playing football yeah, see, I just have. I think I couldn't do an individual unless I was on like a really good team. It just has to really something just likes competitiveness. I don't do an individual unless I was on a really good team. It just has to really Something just likes competitiveness. I don't get bored in Maybe a skateboard, that'd be fun.
Speaker 2:Climbing.
Speaker 3:What about climbing? Yeah, I always think I'm wanker climbing. I haven't got the ability for it to be actually that good. I'm all upper body. My hips do not allow me to Use my legs at all.
Speaker 2:So you're not going to change to be a 100m runner To get the publicity.
Speaker 3:I reckon I'd be an awesome 100m runner.
Speaker 2:Now's the time.
Speaker 1:Well famous at the moment.
Speaker 2:I would change. I would have a go if I was you. If I was a spring chicken, early 20s got that fast twitch fiber. I'd be giving 100 meters a go yeah, it looks fun. Just, it's just the training for it you sound so unbothered trying to convince people we're athletes and you're like yeah, the training.
Speaker 1:Do you know what about the? I would hate all the heat.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because I hate giving my F all, literally everything, and then being told oh you gotta go again in 10 minutes like what no?
Speaker 3:I'm done now yeah, it's just a long weekend. You think they start earlier than us and finish later than us.
Speaker 1:I'm one and done.
Speaker 2:I'm the same, and then you can do other stuff, explore a bit let's finish this episode with one more question, one more what do you enjoy? More racing or training?
Speaker 1:Racing. That's a hard one. Hands down racing. I think it's training.
Speaker 3:If I could race and be competitive and not train, I wouldn't train.
Speaker 2:You'd do that anyway, didn't you? Yeah, well, I do it as best as I can. I train a little bit.
Speaker 1:You're on the line, you're in the fine line I walk the line, I'm like I often wonder if it would have been different if mo hadn't come into a sporting background or being in that that time in your life where you could just chuck it all away and be like a real boozer or something, if you'd have the same outcome, or you'll have the same outcome when you get a little bit to like later 20s or early 30s what if I enjoy?
Speaker 3:I'd enjoy the training more, do you reckon?
Speaker 1:yeah, because I don't know just make, because the training for us, or for a lot of people I know, makes you feel so good, because you're doing so much good for yourself as opposed to racing's more. Just, it's that one moment for yourself. Do you know what I?
Speaker 3:mean yeah, yeah, it sounds bad, but I've never been in a place where my fitness has been at a point where I'm like I'm really unfit.
Speaker 2:So I think I almost take it for granted. No, you don't take fitness for granted, you take talent for granted. Sorry, yeah possibly there's the hard truth.
Speaker 1:You know an athlete's mindset right that having your goal for winning all the time isn't as maintainable as just having the self-worth to train all the time. It's more sustainable to be happy about training than it is to be about winning.
Speaker 3:Yeah, 100%. That's why I have to step out of sport constantly, but it's what keeps me training.
Speaker 2:I wouldn't train if I couldn't win yeah, we see, we're, we're, we are like whereas you guys would train anything far from you.
Speaker 3:Yeah see I'd I'd struggle to get out of bed if it it wasn't for something apart from recently.
Speaker 2:I've felt that because, like Ship said, you knew how much that that free came into me and that actually was because I was starting to get in my head that I wasn't getting any success. So I I enjoyed the race there and then I'm more than I did. The training do you get?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, no, but that's the same as well, and but then as then as well, that cause I don't know, well, you didn't lose that one, but it's. It's like a little bit of me's dug out about that, because it's like, oh, I was so close, but then that's like, oh, I want to go back into enjoyed training because I don't want to have that feeling of not doing well.
Speaker 2:So I suppose it's a little bit of everything, isn't it? We are in a weird position because we know full well we need to train literally hours every day to get success, to get to get a slice, a little tiny slice of success, not full-blown winning, but just to feel that we've been successful in ourselves in a in that racing position. I't know, that's how I feel.
Speaker 1:Maybe we do prefer the racing then, but it's not the racing itself, it's the success.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:You guys would still train, I think, as much as you do without racing.
Speaker 1:You might be a bit more relaxed in other areas but I think you two would train as much as you do. But I don't know if we'd sacrifice as much. I think if we was just training for fun, we definitely wouldn't sacrifice as much. But then would we, because I love training.
Speaker 3:I think you would.
Speaker 2:I generally think you would. It's really hard. It's like, yeah, what comes first, the chicken or the egg? It's what comes first, training or race success or liking training yeah, it's really hard to define. But I just know that once I'm in a training block, I love training and I don't want to race because I don't want to feel like the training has been a waste If I don't do well in the race, so mad.
Speaker 3:Well, the race just kind of gives you an indication that you trained well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and if it doesn't well, british championships. What else was rubbish for me? There's a few few. I felt rubbish and it's like, well, should I carry on training? Is that well, yeah, you got to. But, like you just said, yes, I would probably train if I wasn't racing as much as I do now. But that's a bad thing because it shows that I'm not training enough to to be successful in racing. Should be training more bad thing because it shows that I'm not training enough to be successful in racing Should we train more.
Speaker 1:No, but at least you'll love it, yeah, cool.
Speaker 2:Well, that's just a simple question to finish.
Speaker 3:Don't have a simple no.
Speaker 2:Yeah, don't have a simple no, yeah, anything. Any other questions you've got? I think that's most of our. I think we've done most of our Q&A. Man, I might have to put a post out for more Q&A questions. Yeah, yeah, we've done recovery before, haven we? Yeah yeah, how to stay accountable to our diets.
Speaker 2:We're funny enough, we're. I'm looking at the q a folder now, but we've already answered this. Is that someone's asking us? Do we think the 3k endurance and uk ocr series should be all part as one, with a minimum of one race the people have to attend?
Speaker 1:it's yeah it's quite funny because obviously we're quite we're recording this quite far in the past, right? So people don't probably know that we're in the past at the moment, but it's quite strange how current things are. And I wonder how current this will be when it comes out, Because after this episode we'll probably be back to like being a bit more current on top of time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but these questions are quite good for people that are just finishing all their races. Like, when this comes out, it's kind of like the race season's coming to a close. Yeah, that'd be it. That'd be it Like this when this comes out, it's kind of like the race season's coming to a close. Yeah.
Speaker 1:That'd be it. That'd be it yeah.
Speaker 2:So it's good for people to know like right, I'm going into winter. How important is diet? Really, get your diet done, cause you recover so quickly. What's?
Speaker 3:he doing. Winter is coming. So, Shipley's name today, which he's just pointed out to all of us is.
Speaker 2:Winter is Coming, so he's for the guys.
Speaker 3:Obviously that can't see. He's pointing at his name, but what he doesn't realise is if his name is not up, he's just pointing at the floor.
Speaker 2:Yeah he did. I don't know what was he pointing at.
Speaker 1:I thought that was where you could see it.
Speaker 3:No, Well, it depends on what camera angle you're on, Does it not? I just switched because I was like what is he looking at? And then it switched and I was like, oh, that's what he's looking at. I thought he was like I don't know what you're doing.
Speaker 2:Okay, right, we're going to finish. Please send questions in to us. It really helps us to keep answering and helping people out and obviously it helps our listeners get get more out of us. There's certainly things that we don't discuss. That definitely are questions out in the OCR community and just just general community. If you're just signing up for a race or a running race, whatever us know, let us know how we can keep you accountable.
Speaker 1:Yeah, baby.
Speaker 2:Right, it's been a pleasure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, see you guys in a while now.
Speaker 2:See you later, guys See you later.
Speaker 3:Bye, thanks for watching, guys.
