Accountability Corner
Embark on an adventure with Darren, Morgan, and Chris, the dynamic trio steering the ship at "Accountability Corner." As passionate OCR enthusiasts, they're on a mission to share their expertise and enthusiasm for obstacle course racing with the world. From sharing insider tips on overcoming training plateaus to demystifying the complexities of race registration and gear selection, no stone is left unturned. Whether you're a seasoned competitor hungry for fresh perspectives or a newcomer eager to dip your toes into the muddy waters of OCR, these hosts are here to guide you every step of the way. Join them as they peel back the curtain on the electrifying world of OCR, revealing stories of triumph, camaraderie, and boundless adventure.
Don't miss out – tune in and discover why OCR is capturing hearts and minds around the globe!
Accountability Corner
#38: The Financial Side of Obstacle Sports
What if the cost of a hobby could rival that of a luxury vacation? Join us as Morgan Maxwell, Chris Shipley, and Darren Martin tackle the financial hurdles of obstacle course racing while sharing their latest adventures and light-hearted banter. Morgan gives us a peek into his life in Sheffield, adjusting to its chilly climate, while Chris recounts his stylish commentary escapades at Tough Mudder events. Together, we scrutinize the expenses tied to racing in the UK, offering tips to make it more accessible, whether you're a seasoned racer or a newcomer eager to jump in.
Ever wondered how to enjoy the thrill of obstacle racing without breaking the bank? We promise insights into slashing costs with savvy strategies like early bird ticketing and car sharing. From the logistics of participating in races across the UK and Europe to marshalling as a budget-friendly alternative, we explore ways to trim those hefty price tags. Our discussion turns to the additional financial demands posed by necessary gear and travel, weighing the pros and cons of budget-friendly camping against pricier hotel stays. Learn how you can save while embracing the race experience and even boost your competitive edge.
With young athletes and future stars in mind, we examine the broader economic barriers of obstacle course racing. The conversation shifts to sponsorship dynamics, highlighting how financial support can be a game changer for athletes. We delve into the implications of high costs on the sport's growth, especially for juniors and young adults. Through this episode, we emphasize the passion fueling the sport and the urgent need for structural changes to sustain its growth, ensuring competitive racing remains an inclusive and viable pursuit for all.
Welcome to the Accountability Corner, where we talk about everything obstacle course racing, from staying disciplined in training, affording the sport, signing up for your first race and, more importantly, how the sport is growing around the world, with your hosts Morgan Maxwell, chris Shipley and Darren Martin.
Speaker 2:Red lights on episode 38 of Accountability. Corner has started. How are you both? And we're back. We don't know we're gone, but we're back.
Speaker 1:We're back in the time timeline.
Speaker 2:The timeline has re-inverged together and back again don't let the listeners know they never realized we left, we left yeah to them. We didn't leave, we've been here our last few episodes have been like a screensaver. We've been in the spider-verse. Mo is now in his new bedroom yes we're in the new office.
Speaker 3:If you want to call it office, it's actually Darren and Shipley's bedroom for when they come and see me, but for the meantime it's my office how is sheffield mo hilly?
Speaker 1:very hilly yeah don't sound too excited about it yeah great yeah, it's great feedback for sheffield. Yeah, it's really selling it. You're not gonna be full monty's or anything, yeah but mo's on the on the tourism board hello going to be full Monty's or anything yet are you Mo's on the tourism board?
Speaker 2:Hello, it's under Sheffield, it's hello.
Speaker 3:To be fair, though, everyone that comes and visits says the same thing. So lots of hills, Good trails. Shops are good. No, I haven't really been shopping. Lots of charity shops. If you're into that sort of stuff, bit of thrifting lots of if you're an active person, loads to do good feedback.
Speaker 2:Thanks for that, mo.
Speaker 1:Everyone will be just literally rushing to Sheffield the Sheffield, the Sheffield rush, thanks to Mo, a man of such enthusiasm.
Speaker 2:Yeah, chips, how's things with you? You've literally been everywhere. I switched on YouTube the other day. You're commentating on Tough Mother, you're on who's Up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I got a rise, didn't I?
Speaker 2:What was the?
Speaker 1:rise. More airtime, less money, Okay yeah. No, it was good though. Yeah, I enjoyed it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love the fact you wore a hat as well. Oh yeah, because In a bracken.
Speaker 1:Well, I was being recorded, wasn't I? A video? Rafi said I need to, you know, start making myself look presentable. And I've started doing the backwards cap thing. I'm trendy these days, mate, trendy, what hat was you wearing? I was wearing my Accountability Corner hat, obviously. Oh no, but you just couldn't see Accountability Corner. Well, apparently it looks better wearing it backwards. Apparently, if I wear it forwards, raffy's like oh, not too hot, and then as soon as I turn it backwards, she's like well, weak at the knees okay, so hats backwards always yeah okay
Speaker 2:yeah, all right. No, it's good. It was good commentating just uh, we still need to, but it's not. It's not just uk ocr, I think it's. Everyone needs to figure out a way that we can get good footage yeah, I think, I think, uh, we'll come to that.
Speaker 1:There's things happening behind the scenes. Oh, let let me assure you uk, I don't know, but let me assure you UK viewers and enthusiasts of obstacle racing sports, there will be good to come.
Speaker 2:Good, and we're back. We everyone didn't realize we left, but I'm really sorry we did leave you with pre-recorded episodes, but we are well and truly back now. We're on it. Episodes, but we are well and truly back now. We're on it. Season is almost at a close and and winter season starts, but you, you boys, have got hang on to go to, haven't you last race, this of this year?
Speaker 1:I do indeed. Are you coming though?
Speaker 2:no, I'm done oh, mo's done, didn't realize that my season's over.
Speaker 3:I'm. I've got fat for two weeks and now I'm slowly starting to get back into training. Yeah, I've had two weeks off. It's been lovely.
Speaker 2:Nice Didn't realise. You took two weeks off.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I did like little bits, but not yeah, just.
Speaker 2:I only did it if it made me happy.
Speaker 3:Did it make you happy? Well, I went out, probably about twice, so that's how happy it made me but now, now I'm back, I'm ready, sheffield like zapped. All the enthusiasm out of you yeah, I think I just turned into a bit of a miserable old man. I'm kind of hibernating. Do you know it's? I think it's winter. It's just like everything's a bit meh. I also had a nap and then take away pizza. I don't know if that's a good combination for a podcast what today?
Speaker 2:yeah, we should have done like a vocal warm-up for this podcast, shouldn't we, you know, get you like really energetic and going? Yeah, right, we're gonna get into the topic before we lose them all, lose everyone back in the room. I'm gonna intro today's topic. So the OCR is kind of finished for 2024. We're looking ahead to 2025.
Speaker 2:Obstacle course racing, as we know, isn't the most accessible sport when it comes to how much it costs, and I think maybe that's something we don't talk about that much because it actually can come across as quite a negative thing.
Speaker 2:Yet I feel like we we've created this podcast to make sure everyone's accountable and making sure that we actually talk about every single topic that comes up in obstacle course racing. So today we actually wanted to make just really really talk around how much obstacle course racing is costing and will cost, and also where the cost savings can be made, because there's plenty of races that are popping up. They're actually thinking about the consumer first when it comes to how much their their ticket prices are going to be, and it's not just ticket prices, it's also shoes, it's accessories, it's travel, it's accommodation, all of those things. It's all the things we choose to do and also we can't do do everything, so we've also got to take that into account. We yes, it is expensive if you want to do it all, but that's your choice as well at the same time. So, yeah, don't know if that could do that. Intro it anything else you you guys wanted to add to cost of OCR.
Speaker 1:I thought that was intro'd Lovely.
Speaker 2:Thank you. What do you want to start with? To talk around? Is there anything? And what do you think your biggest outlay is when it comes to obstacle course racing?
Speaker 1:A races. They're always, I think, yeah, I think a race is usually. When you look at the race calendar, your a races are usually the most expensive races of the year because, one, they're usually somewhere abroad. Two, they're usually the biggest ones, so they're usually the ones that cost the most, and then the season's sort of built around. Can I afford to go to that one, do you?
Speaker 2:know when you say a race, yes, that to an athlete, that makes complete sense because it's the most important race on your racing calendar. But if you're a newbie coming into the sport of obstacle course racing, it they only really are going to select one or two races. So actually that selected race they're choosing as a challenge actually is kind of like their A race. So they're going to spend as much as probably we do as well, because they're going to maybe get accommodation for it, maybe travel up, maybe have food afterwards, maybe purchase every single bit of like you can get from photos, from photos and things like that. So maybe it is relatable as well. I'm just trying to make it more relatable from.
Speaker 1:A race is also an important race yeah, that goes to the competitor, no, the uh completers, don't it? Yeah, then, if the completers are going in for that big event, that big, oh I'm going to sign up for, let's use tough mudder, for example. I'm going to sign up for a tough mudder in september. I've got eight months to train, yeah, but the tough mudder is down in south london. I'm going to book a hotel, I'm going to go there. That's where it is. So, yeah, yes, it's totally relatable for that, because it's exactly the same, really isn't it?
Speaker 2:yeah, you, just our ones tend to be do, tend to be abroad Because, yeah, like the European and World Championships always seem to be in different countries, so you always need to get a flight. Okay, so a race. Maybe we can discuss around that and then we can fill in the blanks around afterwards about other races that we go to and how many we might go to. Mo, are you still with us? What do you think?
Speaker 2:yeah, I'm still here, I'm just having some difficulties, so most new flat isn't doing too good on the old internet, so we will. Oh, here he is, he's back on my back yeah yeah, I'm gonna keep my video off, I think for a minute okay, mo, do you agree with us that you want to talk about a races, or the most important race first in terms of the cost outlay of it?
Speaker 3:yeah, I think because typically your a race will be normally the most expensive race, because in our sport normally the kind of more prestigious event has typically the more expensive it is. Also depends what level you're talking at. But if you're talking at kind of like wanting to look at european champs, world champs, um, even more like european races, you normally make them your a races because you're traveling to them, but obviously because you're traveling as well, that's that helps to cost significantly. So I think naturally they just kind of become the a race is normally the most expensive, unless you're doing ultras, and then it probably starts to change yeah so we break these down into categories then, because the A race, you've got the race, you've got the travel and then you've got the accommodation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've done a little Excel.
Speaker 1:Oh, actually I'll share my screen. Oh, we're going fancy, I love it when this happens.
Speaker 2:I thought we'd do it today. You know, back at work after a long break, I thought I'd make a little Excel for us. I'll find where I share my screen.
Speaker 1:I would say I'm surprised you didn't do it on holiday, but I guess you were too busy like taking photos of like you drinking drinks coming out of the pool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, of like you drinking drinks coming out of the pool. Um, yeah, if, if you haven't seen the most, the most incredible light struck me and oh, I don't even need to train for that light that looks incredible I thought it was ai.
Speaker 1:You know everyone's using these. Ai generated photos these days of muscles.
Speaker 2:I know, yeah, I've seen that, but no, no AI generation there, just pure sunlight and a good angle and maybe a little bit of creating Right. Can you see my screen?
Speaker 1:I can, yeah, very small.
Speaker 2:I'm going to describe it for the old listeners. So I have categorized us into uk races, european races, and then the equipment that we choose to purchase for each of these races and how much we put we averagely pay for them. So I was thinking maybe we should focus, maybe, uh, make an a race in the uk. Yeah, yeah, uh-huh. So an AK, an AK, a UK A race. Do you agree with me that average price is probably about £100 a ticket?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, let's go with that. Let's say you don't book it early bird, you sort of get it towards the back end of it. It's an A race. It's going to be quite a prestigious, to be quite a well-run event. So therefore the price will be upwards from 80 to 100 and something pounds.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, because Spartans go way above it and we can highlight that a bit more. So then, and then you'll see parking. There's potentially is parking, or parking might be free, but these days you tend to pay at least 10 pound for parking, which we aren't. We aren't too happy about that one. The other one is actually the worst one. Next one, which is race photos. You're starting to pay for these now. They don't come in a ticket price, so you're talking 20, that 20 pound. I don't know, I haven't bought one, but, yes, no, don't buy me one. And then travel. What do we think about travel? I'm thinking you're taking a car journey Petrol, petrol, little snacks on the way. I would say it's more than that.
Speaker 1:I would say it's more than that. £60. How much Depends where Nice is on the way. I would say it's more than that.
Speaker 3:I would say it's more than that 60 pounds. It depends where the race is, but if you're going to Scotland, definitely more. If you're going to down the road from here, then obviously it's not as bad.
Speaker 2:Should we change it to 80?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that sounds reasonable.
Speaker 2:And then accommodation 80 pounds.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're not going to find many rooms now I'd say more oh yeah, £110 that's a bit steep. I wouldn't pay £110 for a room for a race are we saying is this like an average? Yeah, an average.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, an average, an average average say 80, 80, okay, so without any equipment, you're turning up to the race naked. Yeah, you're not drinking, you're not eating. A average race in the uk is costing 290 pound. It's crazy when you put it in it only.
Speaker 1:It only is crazy if you're doing more than one of them. So for the completers and the people who do this for once, and that that's actually, I would say, really reasonable as an experience. What's one of those things that Mo goes to? Gigs, concert thingies, raves.
Speaker 2:How much is Redden Festival Mo?
Speaker 1:Yeah festival.
Speaker 3:It's about 300.
Speaker 2:Say no more. There you go, all right, there you go. More than that, yeah, so that's the same price. So, a uk, a uk, a race. If you're going to a spartan race, even even going to nuclear races, and you're getting parking race, you're getting, you're traveling there, you're getting accommodation. It's about 300 pounds and you're getting parking race, you're traveling there, you're getting accommodation, it's about 300 pounds. Yeah, it adds up, doesn't it? Yeah?
Speaker 3:Are we going to talk about ways to make this cheaper?
Speaker 2:We could do.
Speaker 1:All those.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, obviously. Do you want to jump straight into that now, mo? Do you want to go? You want to jump straight into that now, moe, or do you want to go for a european, a race?
Speaker 3:no, I think we break down uk first and then we move on to european as a separate subject right, so the race?
Speaker 2:can you make that cheaper, early bird actually yeah, you can, you can make I reckon you can go from £100 to £70 of a burly bed. Yeah, yeah, right, £70. This is very formal Parking Right.
Speaker 1:I mean, you could Parshat. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And be cheeky and not pay the person. Okay.
Speaker 2:We're going to half it. £5. Race photos Just don't get them. Don't get them. Zero Travel Car sharing again Half it. Yeah. Accommodation Snuggle up with a best friend.
Speaker 1:We've done that many times. We have indeed. We tend not to do it anymore, though.
Speaker 2:You're snoring.
Speaker 1:Not after what happened last time.
Speaker 2:Okay, so we we have a car share and an early bird ticket. Yeah, you're looking at getting it at 155 pounds, but you could also choose to not stay, which sometimes we have done. That that's why most OCR athletes or OCR athletes, but people that do obstacle course racing tend to travel down at four o'clock in the morning to avoid staying. So if you're actually not going to stay to avoid avoid staying. So if you're actually not going to stay, you're talking. You've gone from free 290 pounds to 115 pound.
Speaker 2:So the biggest outtakes really for to make races in the uk more affordable is to get the early bird car share and to not stay. But that's we could go into. Like stay and makes it more comfortable, makes it more much easier to get up, but also from a competitive edge point of view, we all know that staying makes you more competitive because I feel like you just get more rest, get better sleep and that's why your a race typically is also more expensive, because if it is your a race that we talked about earlier, that's when accommodation is kind of a key factor to that.
Speaker 3:You don't want to be getting up at four in the morning mixing up your food and you're eating and having to drive and staying then becomes a bit more important no yeah it's also why people tend to do multiple weekends, like spartan do the saturday and the sunday.
Speaker 2:It's why people choose to spend the whole weekend there, because they're getting more for their money in terms of they don't need to travel to another location to experience a different uh distance yeah, I never really thought about that. Maybe I should do one of them multiple day things they do the trifecta pass, don't they, which is really good. Anything else you make it cheaper. I don't think you can.
Speaker 3:Apart from not paying, I don't think you can get that any cheaper uh, potentially accommodation could be cheaper if there is a nice cheap campsite nearby yeah, we have done that before.
Speaker 2:We have stayed in a campsite, so you could.
Speaker 1:You could still stay, but you could actually probably get it for maybe that 20 pound a campsite but then, like we've gone on already, it really does become how important is either one performance for that race to experience, because performance might dictate, like to say, the higher cost. Nice, nice place to sleep, because you don't really want to be camping to perform well, because camping doesn't make you perform well. But if you're going to complete, camping's a really good social experience. You're out there with people, it's cheap, it's great fun, it's a good laugh, you can have a few beverages in the evening. So it really does come down to that where, what are you going for? You're going to complete, complete again or compete. And if you're going to compete, that's when the cost can go up higher because you want to do things that are a lot more, more, uh, better yeah, we should just go to complete all the time.
Speaker 1:It's a hell of a lot cheaper really.
Speaker 2:So I know for a fact our costs, like the three of us, will always be the 290 for an A race, like it is the. I'm staying in a hotel, traveling at the right time, I'm parking there. Sometimes it's not booked at early bird because, because it depends on, because we're going there to to compete, I want to make sure that I'm going to be in the best shape possible, which isn't something I can predict a year and a year in advance. So, and does it fit with my training block? Does it fit with my health for that current time? Does it fit with my actual ability to perform in at that race? Is that race effective towards my training? That's been going on like.
Speaker 1:That's why sometimes we do book a bit later, as well, yeah, yeah, sometimes we actually pay twice the cheaper price because we are cautious about how much money we're going to spend. Well, no, we're cautious of our, our health, I suppose.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, the way that we're going to get in it because I'm only going to turn up to a race if I feel fresh and not injured. And I can't predict that in a year new in advance and the a race is.
Speaker 1:The a race is a bit different.
Speaker 2:Usually we do book that one up quite early because it's the a race, it's what you're trained for yeah, yeah, you suppose you're right, I think, but nine times out of ten there are some races that you book a bit later, don't you? Because of that?
Speaker 1:I did think as well. There is another way that you can save money and this, this should be on the top of a lot of people's list, especially for getting that race and that that is by marshalling. Now, I don't know if it's still it's still not applicable to every race, but especially back in the day, marshalling usually, most normally, gave you a free race, and if that, if you're able to marshal, not only does it help the whole sport, but if you can get a free race and you can sell them tickets on so you can also get marsall codes as well.
Speaker 2:They do they. They are available. So if you, if you marshalled car, shared and shared accommodation. Yeah, you're talking that a 290 pound race will actually cost you 80 pound so that's that's quite good, cheapest chips. Still 80 pounds, though, because obviously you've got to travel and stay there.
Speaker 1:But yeah, but come on, I mean, like you go out to the pub, you're spending like I, if I, if me and raffy went out for dinner yeah right. We could probably keep it just under 80 quid because we don't have any booze. But as soon as you have like a glass or two of wine and you're you're looking at over 80 quid, that's just for a night out. This is an obstacle race yeah, you're right.
Speaker 3:An experience as well, because you're there to marshal, you get to see other people, then you get to race, yeah money well spent there you go, marshall, get it for 80 pound, not 300 pound.
Speaker 2:Okay, that's, that's. That's an average and probably it's not the most expensive race you can turn up to, but I do and it's not the cheapest. It's. I think it's a fair reflection of in the middle, because even traveling 80 pounds is is expensive but also quite cheap to some people that travel quite far, because so I feel that's a good reflection upon it. Like 300 pound is your average for an, a race and literally staying, traveling photos, parking, race ticket. Yeah, so what about? Should we move on to a european race? How much that seems to cost? Are we going to go into championship races or or just a normal european race?
Speaker 1:because let's do a normal european race, because this is actually quite funny. Because I think, if we talk about a normal european race because this is actually quite funny, because I think, if we talk about a normal european race, yeah, it's almost the. I think the funds are going to come out almost less, which is crazy. Because, well, no, I think they'll come out around about the same, because you save you save on certain things, but because it's a european race, you're going to spend more on travel okay, okay, so normal european race.
Speaker 2:For instance, three of us, I don't know, I don't know, actually don't know if you're coming out. Yeah, we're going to go to strong, not strong, vibe. Is it strong viking or is it? It's not strong viking? I think it's strong, strong viking. In gothenburg in april we are going out there to test out that course and that race has cost me. It's a 10k race, top quality race, like something you you rarely you see good races in the uk, but this one's been going for a long time, well established, and that has cost 55 pound I believe that's what the currency translated to.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so like 3 577 million zek, was it?
Speaker 2:yes, 55 pound. There is no charge for parking. I know that photos I'm not too sure about photos, so maybe we should leave the 20 pound in there still, shouldn't we? Yeah, I got it travel, so obviously this is going to be flying out there. What I don't I haven't looked at flight ships. What are they looking like? Do you know what they're looking like at the minute?
Speaker 1:I don't know why you even asked me that you organise everything. What about Moe?
Speaker 2:Moe's looked at flights, hasn't he? He's organised.
Speaker 3:Hang on, I'm looking at flights right now. Flights to Gothenburg.
Speaker 2:In April. Hang on, I'm looking at flights right now flights to gothenburg in april. Okay, this is. This is going to be a two, two nights around we're staying for two nights, not one night. Let's just make sure everyone's aware of that. Uk was one night, europe is going to be two nights and accommodation per person is looking actually around about £200.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's not too bad, because we're going to share, aren't we?
Speaker 2:Yeah, probably going to be less if we share, so we can go to the sharing part in a minute. If you're, like you know we did on car sharing, we can do accommodation sharing on European race as well.
Speaker 3:So flights right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I haven't, obviously. Obviously you could probably get this cheap, because I haven't really looked into it, I've just literally googled it. Yeah, but flights, right. Well, the cheapest I've got up here is 150. That's return as well nice that ain't bad. No, yeah, you might be able to find that cheaper because, like I said, I've literally just googled it on my phone. So if you shop around sometimes you can find it cheaper.
Speaker 1:Yeah, flights go up.
Speaker 2:They go up and down more than the planes themselves and if you don't book the right date, you have to pay double sounds like something from experience I've forgotten about that until this moment and I just thought I'd bring it up for all listeners to learn from me. Check your dates before you book your flight food. Is it unfair to put food on a European race that I haven't put it on the UK race?
Speaker 1:well, no, it's not unfair, but very necessity for food, because you need to eat should I have put food on UK race?
Speaker 3:well, I guess in the UK, if you live in the UK you bring it with you there is ways around to make it cheaper. You can make a packed lunch. If you're strategic, it could be made a lot cheaper, whereas when you're abroad you're kind of forced to pay money for food.
Speaker 1:So £100. You've obviously put that because I'm coming Exactly. I'd say that's like £300.
Speaker 2:Okay, summarise the race was £55. £0 for parking, race photos £20. Travel flights £150. Accommodation £200. Zero pounds for parking race photos 20 travel flights, 150 accommodation 200 pounds. Food 100 pounds. Grand total is 525 pounds. How much? 525 pounds for a weekend in gothenburg at a race, with accommodation, and you're and you're seeing a different country.
Speaker 1:I wonder where all my money goes. When, when we was talking about the UK races, I was thinking why does it cost me so much every year? Now I know why.
Speaker 2:So the most expensive version of a uk race is 290. Yeah then, and then if you go abroad it's 525. So it's 235 pounds difference. It's not bad no, it's not bad to have a holiday, to have a holiday, go and see a different country which again, you could make that cheaper right, let's make it cheaper.
Speaker 2:You could make it a lot cheaper. Okay, race can't make that, I don't. We got the early bird on that one, so that is 55 pounds parking, zero pounds race photos. We're ditching them, we're not having them travel. 150 pounds, mo that at the moment that was the cheapest you could see. I don't know if that will go down you could get an american express ba card.
Speaker 1:Use it throughout the year, yeah, and have flight coupons okay however, here at accountability corner, we boycott ba yeah, we do hard boy? We don't, because I've just bought two flights this year with ba I I'm gonna fly with ba again I'm gonna deny that comment.
Speaker 2:That's not gonna. I don't think that can work because that's getting too complicated trying to find cash back, because you could do that on the other ones as well. Right travel 150 you could.
Speaker 1:You could get it cheaper if you I don don't know got a connecting flight, did all that rubbish, got a train, got that. You could probably get it cheaper if you spent about six days getting there.
Speaker 3:I'll put it at 100%, sometimes to these European countries it can be more affordable to drive, especially if they're like Belgium or kind of countries that aren't as far. Yeah, to be fair, Probably the same as Scotland. Yeah, I'll share far yeah to be fair, probably the same as Scotland.
Speaker 1:Yeah, belgium is. Yeah, belgium is. Okay, in fact, that mainland France, belgium, holland, everywhere else, germany, I suppose all that sort of this side of Europe is easy to drive to and cheap.
Speaker 2:When we car shared to go to the world championships a year ago, I think it was about 55 pounds each, so I'll put 55 pounds in Accommodation. Do you reckon we can make that cheaper than 200 pounds? Yeah we could camp again. You can camp there. That means you've got to bring camping stuff with you.
Speaker 1:Not necessarily. No, yeah, we could camp again. You can camp there. That means you've got to bring camping stuff with you?
Speaker 2:Not necessarily, no. You could go to a decathlon, buy a tent and a sleeping bag. You're adding more money to this. Well, not really. How are you?
Speaker 3:going to get it home.
Speaker 1:You sell it on Marketplace. I don't know, I'm just throwing ideas out there marketplace.
Speaker 3:I don't know, I'm just throwing ideas out there, no, but I think you could make this cheaper by only staying one night. If you could stay in a hostel, stretch the budget out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, hostel and one night, so I'm gonna half it to 100 pounds. Food, 100 pounds. Do you think you can make that cheaper?
Speaker 3:not in this day and age, no, unless you'd like go through the bins okay, right, summer.
Speaker 2:Summarizing the way that we made a european race cheaper. The race is 55 pounds, wouldn't? There's zero for parking. We're not getting the photos. We are now driving with a car share with probably four people into mainland europe, so we're ignoring that. This one's in gothenburg, it's not anymore, it's in europe. And then accommodation we're gonna also share, but we're gonna stay for one night, which is 100 pounds, and then food we're keeping at 100 pounds. Our grand total for that is 310 pounds. So, in summary, um, if you stayed for two nights in in europe and you just went for the most expensive version of it that we've found so far, it's about 525 pounds. But if you actually car shared and didn't get didn't get race photos, you're talking 310 pounds, which is only 20 pounds more expensive than a uk race see, yeah, that's really quite reasonable, isn't it really?
Speaker 3:and we didn't add food to a uk race.
Speaker 2:No crazy, then it's just because we do so much of a minute that's the true cost of ocr well, the true cost then comes against all the equipment and things that we buy for obstacle course racing. So in our last episode we spoke about our shoe rotation. We can talk about the amount of shoes that we buy and, like, the average shoe these days is about 100 to 150 pounds.
Speaker 1:I'd say more than that now you can get.
Speaker 2:You can get cheaper ones on on on sports shoes. You can get ones on sale, can't you?
Speaker 1:yeah, if you get like last year's model and things, you can get them quite cheap. Yeah, if you want the new fancy ones so what you say?
Speaker 2:if let's say that you've got two shoes on rotation as a minimum, yeah, you're probably spending about 300 pound 300 pound easily.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think every trainer dog I must spend that on shoes, getting some new shoes in the one thing we didn't say.
Speaker 2:There are some in my rotation that have I don't usually replace that often because I don't use them as much like the mud claws have been just like literally in the back just waiting for a certain race, and they don't come out that often.
Speaker 1:So I suppose in the long term shoe rotation does make your shoes last longer. It's just your, your race shoe, like, say like when you have a race shoe that only comes out for racing, but as soon as that like bounce goes or that grips a little thing, yeah, and then it's quickly changed because you just, but then it becomes in the shoe rotation again.
Speaker 2:But that's why I say that minimum of two. I think I'd always replace at least two a year as a minimum yeah, I'd say two every six months you don't replace two every six months, you don't replace two every six months, easily Granted.
Speaker 3:I do a little bit more road running than you do too, and I think that you don't get as much wear out of road shoes. But definitely two a month, or at least one every six months.
Speaker 2:So what you think? 300 pounds is not enough for a whole year. No to the average person.
Speaker 3:I think, maybe for an open athlete or someone, or maybe even just an age group guy that's just got a couple of pairs of trail shoes. But I think as soon as it becomes more competitive, I think you're looking at double 600.
Speaker 2:I only bought one pair of trainers this season.
Speaker 3:One. What ones Go for them? The Edge Is that what you bought Yep Interesting. I've only done two.
Speaker 1:No two Two race shoes I bought this year and all my other shoes have been in rotation and they're still alright. But then I did. I bought a couple last year. When it became the new year model, a pair of shoes went right down in price, so I bought the same pair of shoes again.
Speaker 2:That's a money saving tip so you're two, I'm one, you're four, yeah, yeah. So we'll go with two. If we're, if we're kind of like a reflection of the population, then we'll go with two as an average.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let's stick with two. Let's not dwell on it too much.
Speaker 2:No, I'm sorry, Clothes.
Speaker 1:Clothes is cheap nowadays really.
Speaker 2:Decathlon.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think the majority of us OCR racers buy decathlon shorts and it's really only a pair of shorts that you need for race for okay, let's talk summer, because it can get more if you want to get stuff to protect you from the weather, but race wise, you only really need a pair of shorts that's why I was going with bare minimum of like 150 pound yeah, yeah, I can.
Speaker 3:I kind of I don't know what you boys do, but most of the time I kind of know what I need for the year. Now and at the start of the year, around christmas and birthdays, I ask people that want to get me stuff for sports vouchers or some form of voucher, and then I just do like a big kind of bulk buy. Yeah, I'm about 150 inches, but like that sets me up for the year and then any.
Speaker 2:I might buy little bits throughout the year, depending on if there's something comes up that I didn't realize I need yeah, and then I went for nutrition, but I'm thinking just for a race, I'm not thinking for the year here, so I'll spend at least 20 pounds for just a race for nutrition. 20 pound for a race I'm not thinking for the year here, so I'll spend at least £20 for just a race for nutrition £20 for a race for nutrition yeah, I'm thinking electrolytes beforehand, like your morning, I suppose.
Speaker 1:I suppose I've already. I've already got them in stock.
Speaker 2:They're already, they're bought throughout the year if you had to buy all that and you didn't have it. It's about 20 quid probably yeah, okay.
Speaker 3:I can't remember what race it was this year when I realised I'd run out of pretty much everything and I did about 40 quid. But again, that was rushed and you probably don't need as much as what we sometimes consume a watch for pacing.
Speaker 2:I I think it's well. I know, I know it's not completely needed. If you're just going to compete, uh, complete. But even completing, I'd love to know when the finish line's coming up and the average watch like 300 pounds is probably your starter, isn't it? Yeah?
Speaker 3:yeah, you, you can do it cheaper if you shop, if you shop around and also sometimes things like ebay or marketplace. You'd get secondhand ones, um. But good thing about a watch is it normally is an investment, so you'll have your watch for you'll definitely get a couple of years oh, hell, yeah, I still got mine.
Speaker 2:I've had it for four years now my old Phoenix would have never.
Speaker 1:I didn't even need to replace that. I only replaced it because it was old and I wanted a new version. And then I told myself it broke. But it never really broke.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think it's quite generalized as well, but the more you spend on a watch, the more you spend on a watch, the kind of less you have to replace it. It's one of those things that I wouldn't cheap out on.
Speaker 2:If you find a watch that you really want and you've heard good things about and you can't find it, but shopping around it might just be worth buying the bullet because it's gonna last what I put bags in here, just because, like your, your bag you use when you're running, mo, you're running sack is is really good, but also it also takes into fact like you need to put where you're gonna put all this stuff, like you can get the calf line and get a good bag. It's got a little compartment for dirty clothes, which we've talked about in the past, which is super handy. So, yeah, so anything else you think you should add to equipment that you're missing if you was going to a race no, I think that's it because you socks, I know that's enclosed, that's yeah.
Speaker 1:That's clothes. Yeah, no, but I know that's enclosed. Yeah, that's clothes. Mode Socks is ridiculous. Yeah, I know, but they need their own category, Because why is running socks so expensive?
Speaker 3:If you want a decent pair of running socks, they're just like you're looking at £12 for like two socks for a pair.
Speaker 1:Right, not if you buy either a pair of shoes from sports shoes or whatever it is. They come with a free pair of socks or you buy socks, like me, where you get 12 pairs for like £5 off Amazon.
Speaker 2:What socks are these? Are they from the market?
Speaker 1:They're the black ones that I always wear. The only trouble is you can't wear them In the wet, but that's when you use that one pair that are good for the wet.
Speaker 3:We live in England, where it's always raining, but they're not bad.
Speaker 1:They're not terrible In the wet, but they're not the best Basically. I wear. So the socks that I wear. I can wear them at work, so I wear them in the morning and then when I come home I don't have to take my socks off to put my running shoes on. They're so cheap. I've got like 12 pairs for like a fiver.
Speaker 2:Send the link around to everyone. I will Put an affiliate link on so you get the money back on that.
Speaker 1:Doesn't matter, they're so cheap, I don't even need the money.
Speaker 3:Are they actually good though?
Speaker 2:No they're terrible, they're just cotton socks.
Speaker 1:You know what Stifler used? Not Stifler. What was his name? It is Stifler. No, no, sorry, it's.
Speaker 2:Jimifler. No, no, sorry, it's Jim Jim. Jim Jim Jim.
Speaker 1:What Jim used when he had that eventful time of his tube sock, basically them.
Speaker 2:Decathlon do put brilliant socks. No, you should go there, Decathlon do. So what we say is that everything on it, do you reckon?
Speaker 1:I think so. Yeah, I think we've covered the costs.
Speaker 3:I feel like we can make some cheaper Maybe nutrition.
Speaker 2:Right, we're talking £850. £850.
Speaker 1:Do you know what I'm so bad at numbers? I thought that was going to be like 400 quid, but you got two, threes there two, threes in there all right, I'm not good with numbers, remember let's go cheaper.
Speaker 2:Shoes do not need to be 300 pounds. I reckon you could get a good trail shoe for 80 pound yeah, let's, let's be serious, you can make.
Speaker 3:Do Clothing going into Cathlon t-shirt Well hang on, I'm just going to help our listeners out. Hang on. Right, the Scott Supertrack. I saw this the other day. Hang on. One second Scott Supertrack RC2s 50 quid on the sports shoe at the minute.
Speaker 1:That's decent.
Speaker 3:That's a good trail shoe.
Speaker 2:We're putting 50 quid. I reckon clothing could probably be about 40 quid.
Speaker 1:I don't even know how we got to 150. I don't think I've ever spent 150.
Speaker 2:No, hang on a minute, yeah you get a 2x, 2x you shorts.
Speaker 1:You're talking 70 pound for shorts yeah, I've probably done yeah about that, yeah, okay, yeah, nutrition.
Speaker 3:I know I keep giving little tips, but another tip as well. You know you've banged on about at Decathlon I found recently TK Maxx for running tops. They've got a lot of Adidas in.
Speaker 1:I've never, ever bought a running top.
Speaker 3:They're always race tops you just wear race tops, yeah well, if you want any running tops and you don't want to just wear a race top or even running shorts, they've got a a little alias shorts in as well.
Speaker 2:tk max go there, okay sounds like, since I've got all the tips there and now you're in sheffield shopping around um nutrition I've.
Speaker 3:You still need stuff, but maybe you could get, like you know you can just get a multi-pack of gels for like 10 pound or whatever.
Speaker 2:Yeah you still need that. Do you need a watch? No, it's no, but we think maybe that investment maybe you get, like I've seen, you can get some forerunners for about 120 pound yeah, but do you?
Speaker 3:let's say you've shopped around. I got my watch. Bear in mind. It's supposed to be like a 300-quad watch. I got mine for 190.
Speaker 1:So you can you can shop around, but let's let's say for argument's sake, you're just doing one race, it's timed.
Speaker 3:Okay, I mean, yeah, you don't really need a watch if you're looking at just one race.
Speaker 1:You don't really need to. I mean watch if you don't, you don't really need to. I mean, I'm getting rid of the watch you could put your phone it's good to have a plastic case yeah yeah it's brilliant, but then you could use your phone.
Speaker 2:So if you want to go all out and get every single thing for this, for this race, it's 850 pounds. If you want to turn up with a bare minimum 100 pound prepared for this race, okay. So if you're, let's summarize this then if you're traveling in the uk, you're going to an a race you're not going to share of anyone. You're going to travel you by yourself. You're going to spend 290 pound. You're then going to buy all of the gear and everything for this race. You're talking 1140 pound.
Speaker 3:You're going to spend on one race expensive but that is like balls to the wall everything that you could possibly imagine. That's like a dream. You don't care about money, you just want to ball out and look the part.
Speaker 2:But even if you were savvy, you're going to train for this race, but you're going to make sure you've got your ticket early. You're not getting race photos. You're traveling with a friend. Your ticket early you're not getting race photos. You're traveling with a friend. Your car sharing uh, you're. You're gonna share a hotel with your friend. You're just gonna get the bare minimum shoes, um, on sale. You're gonna get the clothing in decathlon for cheap. You're just gonna pick up a few handful of gels and you're just gonna get going. This is that. Our OCR race is still going to cost you 255 pounds in the UK.
Speaker 1:I think that's actually really good. Let's compare this to a right let's. We've done the cost we've. We've crushed the numbers, right. Yeah, let's compare this to other sports, right. What's our closest competitors at the moment? High rocks, rocks. Right, I'd say OCR's cheaper if you wanted to save the money.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what's a High Rocks at the minute? About £110? Bloody expensive, you can't even get in?
Speaker 1:Yeah, can't even get in. So there you go. Definitely it's cheaper, but then let's look at another sport.
Speaker 2:What sport do you want to look at?
Speaker 1:What other?
Speaker 3:sports. Do you want to look at what?
Speaker 2:other sports do you travel to, like we're doing mountain biking? Mountain biking, that's well expensive yeah, but that's got equipment to it, isn't it?
Speaker 3:anything with equipment to it is going to be more expensive triathlon more expensive, yeah the thing is, if you look at like our long lost brother in ocr, which is probably just either trail running or running, and then the price is significantly cheaper, you probably, equipment is probably the same, but then yeah race price.
Speaker 2:You're looking at 20 quid 15 quid.
Speaker 1:Some ultras now are upwards of the price of an OCR yeah, but I think ultras are a different category in itself.
Speaker 3:What about?
Speaker 2:the.
Speaker 3:Milton Keynes Marathon. You're actually willing to spend.
Speaker 2:Milton Keynes Marathon is only going to. It's about 40 pounds, 40, 45 pounds. No half marathon. Yeah, milton Keynes Marathon is only going to. It's about £40, £40, £45 no half marathon. It's half half of the early bird entry price of an OCR, but you're still spending everything else. So it's not. It's not far off no so you don't normally, there's not normally a parking charge.
Speaker 3:I would say no. And a lot of times in the running world. If there is race photos, a lot of times they're free. Yeah, travel and accommodation maybe that's the one that doesn't really change. But also if you're a part of like British Athletics if you're a part of like British Athletics, you're part of a running club, you can normally get even more discount off that as well. So a 40 quid race can turn it sometimes into like 20 quid. I've done races where I've paid a fiver.
Speaker 2:Yeah Right, I'm going to. I'm going to depress you both. Are you ready? Go on Right. I'm going to depress you both. Are you ready? Go on Right. So, Ships, how many UK races did you do last year? Just as like a stab at it.
Speaker 1:Let's say this was a normal year because I was injured, but let's say normally I'd do five normal races, and then there's like some other bits and pieces, so five, and then like four other bits how?
Speaker 2:many.
Speaker 1:European races. Did you do Two? No, one this year. It would have been two if they were in accessible places. So let's do. Oh no, I did do two European races actually, and you would spend so in UK races.
Speaker 2:If you did five, you'd spend £1,450 on just travel and entry. There you go, european races you would have spent this is an average 1050 pounds. So on ocr, just from race entry and entry and traveling to it, it's about 2500 pounds right now.
Speaker 1:This is where it's going to be bad. Why? Because let's just use my better half's golf membership, for example. Yeah, ocr's coming in more than what Rafi probably spends on membership and that's not including what I spend on kit and she only needs to buy clubs once every now and again and get them re-gripped. So, yeah, maybe OCR is expensive.
Speaker 2:So, kit-wise, I think as a racer, like we said, the most expensive version of equipment you can get is about £850. I would say you would probably do that twice a year. Yeah, so you're probably twice. Twice a year you're changing up your kit. Yeah, so you are paying 1700 pounds.
Speaker 1:No, one, no one ain't got no money.
Speaker 2:So all in all OCR I'd take £300 away from that because the watch, oh yeah, the watch. Okay, we'll take £300 away from this, but your OCR is costing you £3,900 a year on average.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I'll do it all again as well.
Speaker 2:It is crazy.
Speaker 1:Do you think, then, right, that the the cost of ocr, do you think that is one of the contributing factors of people not wanting to take up the sport? Because I don't think it is, because I think, when you're coming into the sport as a as as a newbie, and that the savings that you can make are there, it's just that when you become obsessed with it, like we are but that's the same with any sport as soon as you're obsessed with it, you're willing to spend everything on it, because it's what matters.
Speaker 2:I think it's difficult to maintain momentum with the sport. I don't think it's difficult to get into the sport. I think it's difficult yeah, like I said, difficult to maintain that momentum with it, because it's just so expensive. It's like how can I up, keep this up paying for this all the time? If I like, we're doing it because we want to be athletes. We're're doing it for a reason. We've got some sort of switch in our head that's telling us this isn't just a hobby. We're doing this to better ourselves to be an athlete. But if I had a switch in my head that switched that off and it was just a hobby, I'd seriously want to be looking at these numbers.
Speaker 3:I can only see it from, I think, think from a junior point of view and also from a younger adult maybe point of view is why the sport is growing slowly. I think the cost of OCR is killing OCR massive because it's only going going up. If we did this, even just two years ago, it would be cheaper, and it was interesting what you said there. But if we did this what? Even just a year, two years ago, it would be cheaper.
Speaker 1:And it was interesting what you said there for the juniors, because this isn't the juniors paying for it, it's their parents. The parents are doing all this for that sport. You think what you get your kid into your local football club, that's only a local football gig.
Speaker 3:Well, even running. Yeah, or even running athletics, and the return of investment on that could be a lot sustainable, a lot more sustainable I've also seen a lot of good athletes not continue with the sport, leave the sport or do a couple of races and then go. Yeah, this is too expensive and they're athletes that could come in and take on the whole race by storm and be one of the best in the uk. I think it just limits the growth of the sport across the board I'm glad you said the elite is only the elite field, because they can afford it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that is true. That happens in a lot of sports, doesn't it? People are only the best, or seen as the best, because they've afforded, they've had the luxury and have been able to afford, actually putting themselves in a situation where they've got better. They're not necessarily the best at the sport. They're the best that can afford the sport. Yeah, we've said that.
Speaker 3:A couple of times. If you take the elite field and actually we've took everyone individually the amount of people that are kind of in their 30s that have very good probably well, definitely above average salary jobs, that is the elite field. Really.
Speaker 1:There's a few outliers in there, that's take, for example, the age group categories and that. That that outlies it quite well. So the category that you said demo, the sort of 30 year old, good jobs, single, no pet, no kids I was gonna say no parents and no kids. Um, they're the ones like the 30 to 35, the 30 year olds and the sort of early 40s, where they've got their sort of their stuff together in life. They're the biggest age groups, they're the fullest, they're the most competitive and that does sort of show that they're the one who have what's the word on? Is it expendable cash?
Speaker 1:yeah yeah, expendable cash like the expendables, they're the expendables oh, they can afford it.
Speaker 2:I'd love to do that like a um, like a research survey on um job titles and salaries of the, the different fields, and then the participation levels of those individuals across ocr, because I think there would be a bit of a shock there that that is the elite. Like you said, mo, we're generalising a bit here and we might I don't know if we're upsetting you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there's people that slip through the cracks and that are outliers, but I think in average.
Speaker 2:So, mo, you was going on to a point that I was actually going to talk about, which isn't necessarily. This is going a little bit far from the cost of ocr and I think we've captured the cost of ocr. But say, for instance, just hypothetically thinking, that brands are going to start to come into ocr and really pick up and scout individuals who are going to be amazing, at a bare minimum, what do you think an individual needs from what we've laid down here to be sponsored? Is it like one UK race, one European race and one equipment package? Do you reckon that keeps them going or do you think they need more races?
Speaker 3:I think it's either races paid for, travel paid for or I mean, in an ideal world, both. But I think that's your main kind of thing. That's the thing I probably look for, and then maybe equipment, depending on the sponsor or depending on the brand that's coming in. But I think if you can get your races paid for for the year, that's a big cost what do you mean by pay for, like the, the race ticket?
Speaker 3:yeah, if you can get a free entry or or some form of kind of say, a brand came to you and put money towards your race tickets for the year, and we're talking like a version of a sponsorship now yeah but that would. That would help the athletes in the sport definitely. But you could, I mean you see it at the ukocr series, the winner of that? I might. I might be wrong here, but I'm pretty sure the winner of the ukcr series gets their whole next season.
Speaker 1:Yeah they do free ship. Is that true?
Speaker 3:yeah, yeah that's correct, which is great, which is what it should be they also get cash prize monies now as well.
Speaker 1:For anyone who might be listening, who's not a uk racer and wants to earn some cash, they actually do get. I think even you get prize money now, mo, for coming third in the series. That's good for you, Mo he's obviously gone to the bank now. Yeah, he's really excited about it I didn't really hear you.
Speaker 3:I heard something about prize money but you got prize money now oh, did I?
Speaker 2:yeah, I think so, yeah, no, don't quote me so brands are listening to our podcast today and we're trying to promote the sport of ocr and saying to them that there's absolutely amazing athletes, juniors, coming up in the sport and some of them just need a bit of help in hand and if you want to put your brand name over them, we have said that they at least need five uk races a year. They need two european races and needed a kit, a kit package. We, out of the cost that we've just done, we're saying that that is 1460 pounds they need for the whole year to help them get to a races yeah it's quite a bit, isn't it?
Speaker 1:well, you think I suppose, if you're if you if you're a genuinely up there decent sponsor. No, it's not because not because you probably claim that back. Am I right yeah?
Speaker 2:Most companies can claim certain elements of that back.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I don't actually think that's to a company that's really wants to invest in the sport. I don't think that's a real big investment, but it would help a lot of people out.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's not bad it no, yeah, so three thousand. I think races could help with this as well, though. Well, how?
Speaker 3:could races help? Do you reckon? I think races that because the elite small field is quite small and I think it only works if you do the spartan method, where you have some form of gated system for the elites so you had to own some form of kind of pro pass or something like that. Um, you could make the elite field, even if it's you're doing a series and you make the top 10 in the series, if you give them all free race tickets. I think that could, because then it gives age groupers something to strive for. They can work their ass off to get in that top 10. They can get a free race ticket for the next event.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think we do need to call people like racers out and say that if you're promoting the competitive side of the sport, you need to hold yourself to rewarding the competitive side of the sport. Don't do it as just a spectacle. Do it to actually reward the sport of OCR. So make sure that those individuals get something out of it. And the bare minimum, that requirement, if you're going to host a competitive race, is that the winner gets a free ticket for the next race. Promote the races to come back. Yeah, like it costs one ticket so you'll see male and female winners, two tickets get. Get them winners back.
Speaker 2:They main they that might've been their one race of the year and they were awesome races and they've just come out of nowhere and they've. They can't afford any other races If they can't, if they won, say, challenge cup and then can't come back to any other races. We have failed to promote and bring up the talent in this sport. So that's a bit of a rant, but I think if you are putting on competitive races, promote the competition to get better and come back and compete. I think that should be the case, because Mo, I know that there seems to be same names win races, but there's always one outlier that we see sometimes every year that seemed to be come from nowhere and they might have been someone that just can't afford the next race. What do you think about that? Do you think we've covered the cost of ocr anything else?
Speaker 1:I think we've covered it. I think we we've. Obviously. I don't know. What did we get out of this then ourselves?
Speaker 3:No money.
Speaker 1:Is it a bad thing? The cost Is it a good thing? There definitely should be things that could help the cost. Maybe that's what we're trying to get out there. Should we be doing more to help the cost? Maybe that's what we're trying to get out there. Should we be doing more to help the cost, especially in the competitive side? Then, are we trying to help the competitive side?
Speaker 2:I don't know what we can do. I think we're trying to say that it's an e promoting and maybe sponsoring um athletes isn't as expensive as probably brands may think it is. So it's actually quite accessible to sponsor an athlete to help them get get to where they want to get to. And we've seen a lot of athletes putting out their um uh go, fund me pages to get them to races when we're showing you, actually it's quite easy to just sponsor them and say that I'm going to pay for maybe like five entries to a race. Let me know how much it is. It's. It's quite easy to lay that down. We've just done it today. So we're saying that it's quite easy to sponsor people.
Speaker 1:Here's one yeah, do you think if more people were sponsored to come to race, do you think that would get more people who wasn't sponsored to race to race as well?
Speaker 2:well, I'd say competition drives competition and comparison and comparison also makes you work harder at times, like in a good way and also a bad way. People compare themselves and and work harder because they want to be that person, which isn't isn't healthy, but it's just the way that human nature is. So I think it will drive more people to be at races I'd like to know what people actually think that on themselves.
Speaker 1:I personally, if there was like massive competition at a race, I would want to be at that race, regardless of where I come. But I would like to know Look at the most attended competitive races.
Speaker 3:this year in the UK we're probably looking at the UK Championships, which is again one of the most competitive, gets the biggest turnout because, at what? The UK championships, which is again one of the most competitive, gets the biggest turnout because it's the UK champ yeah, I don't even want to do that once, even nuts how many people would have turned up to nuts for UK if it wasn't a British champs? They didn't make this competitive thing about it.
Speaker 2:No, yeah, turning up and racing against a sponsored athlete now that's something.
Speaker 1:Someone who I want to be like so if you be that sponsored athlete, you know what that means, isn't it?
Speaker 3:give me your you might get some sponsors. As an athlete you'll be looking at and you'll think you'll see your, your peers, get these deals and it'll motivate you to try and get these deals as well. At the minute, because no one's really sponsored.
Speaker 1:It's like place this unattainable, impossible thing, whereas if then you say, yeah, why are people going to want to race obstacle racing when it's basically just your, your your park run on a saturday but you've got to spend upwards of 1 000 something, 100 pounds for this? This goes to the competitive side because obviously, if you are just competing, that one and done is done. But if you're looking to do this over and over again for bettering yourself as a person, as an athlete, as a competitor, you're not getting anything for it apart from just chucking money at it. Even in mountain biking, I'm sure you get prizes for like doing your like a local downhill comp or something. You probably get like a free bike voucher or something yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're spending at the minute. We're spending 3 900 pounds probably. All three of us spend probably similar to that amount. I would say I can definitely, definitely think I probably spend about that much. It's to to what? What have we got out of out of the sport?
Speaker 2:And and that's not, that sounds really negative and it's not meant to be, not meant to be silence and negative, but it is. It's true. At the same time, this sport's growing, um, it will grow, but we we've always said it we're the guinea pigs, we're the people that are going to put so, us turning up, turning up to the start line in the best shape ever, not getting anything out of it, but showing people what, how capable this sport is and how good this sport is and what people can do with their bodies through these courses, is what we are doing for the sport at the minute. We're promoting how cool it is for the future to to flourish. Maybe, maybe that's what we're getting out of it. We're showing that this can be a sport, a sport in the future. I don't know if you feel the same. Would you feel, how do you feel, when you see you spend 3 900 pounds ships?
Speaker 1:well, I prefer spending that than I do on anything else okay, fair enough whenever I spend stuff on ocr I think, well, but it's the thing that drives me to do good. So yeah, the cost is ineffective to how much it actually brings me. I might spend a fortune, but it brings me so much joy it's a tear oh mo, how does your dad feel about that?
Speaker 2:three thousand nine hundred pounds? I don't know how many more, so I think, I think the change is bad my bank just got a lot, a lot smaller oh yeah, your mom, your mom listens to this, doesn't she?
Speaker 3:yeah, she don't tell her um no, but I just to be, and this is brutally honest. If things don't change too much in the sport and I'm not getting much out of it, I don't see myself being around competitively for the next, like in five years time that's quite sad and that's just like that's. I race to compete. But then if you can't afford to compete and you're not getting much back from it, you could end up going down a different rabbit hole.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's just you. I mean, there's a lot of juniors who have a lot of potential coming up into the sport. That could possibly be that same.
Speaker 3:Well, I've seen firsthand juniors that have a lot of potential that dwindle away from the sport. Well, I've seen first hand juniors that have a lot of potential that dwindle away from the sport and I don't know if it's always because of cost, but I think that's a big part of it, because also the jump from junior to knocking on the door to kind of elite, that's a another expensive jump do you know what we didn't add into this?
Speaker 2:this cost as well, which we probably should have, which is coaching that is true.
Speaker 1:That could be upwards and and uh.
Speaker 2:Training, like training's a different, different kettle of fish. How much we spend on training.
Speaker 1:It could just be a gym membership.
Speaker 2:So, for instance, this cost in right now, this 3,900 pounds, is attendance in the right kit to a race. That's it. It does not count. Take into account training, traveling to training centers yeah, you're all your coaching costs. Yeah, doesn't count. All that which is probably about the same same amount of money. Yeah, we've, we've, uh, we've, we haven't spun any more positives on this. We need to.
Speaker 1:I tell you what, though, I would love to know, because obviously we only know these from our point of view, from this, but I do wonder, from what it's like being an athlete in another sport, at sort of our sort of level of what we do, how much that they actually spend, because I know my friends who have coaches in even ultra running. They spend not far off the same thing.
Speaker 2:So yeah, it'd be good, be good to hear a comparison. You know, like a semi-professional cyclist or, yeah, just someone who, who is absolutely just going for it, not seeing all the success in the world, but a very, very accomplished semi-professional athlete who's maybe age group at a certain level, not sponsored, just doing it because they enjoy it out of life to be pushing themselves you'll have to do some polls on this, darren.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's a cost to everything in life, isn't there? And this is the cost to our our, our endeavor, our habit, our thing, that makes us to who we are. So I don't see it I would. I would spend this much money Like I get amazing experiences, the European races and the money that we spend on that. I just see it as an absolutely awesome opportunity to go away with friends, see a different country, something that you probably would do anyway. You'd go away with friends on holiday for a weekend, but this time around I get to. As the sport develops and it has developed last year I get to say I represent my country, like I am actually selected to represent my country. That's pretty cool from a competitive point of view that's what I'm saying, but then also from from an experience point of view going to strong viking or ocr series wow, that was an experience that was awesome, but when?
Speaker 2:when you ever going to say that that's a, that's a memory. Make memories and you can't put a price on memories. So I think that's my positive spin of all this. Like it it is. It is expensive, but so is buying a fancy car. Like you just drive around in that and you get the same memory every time you put the key in. But this you get to go to different countries and get different memories. Like it's different. We spend money on different things that make us happy.
Speaker 2:This makes me happy and I think that's the positive note we should end it on okay, all right, cool thought I'll put a positive spin on it and it was quite cool to break it down. People probably don't realize how much they spend or where they can make savings, so it's quite nice to people to realize that. Car share, speak, speak to people, make friends, car share race photos Maybe you don't need them, maybe you've got someone with you taking pictures like race tickets. Get early birds. We said it so many times early birds are the way forward to get cheaper race tickets and it helps the race as well. Know how many medals to buy and things like that as well. Know how many middles to buy and things like that.
Speaker 1:And if you're really, really struggling, don't forget, there's always Mastercard.
Speaker 2:Let's promote debt.
Speaker 3:Get yourself into heaps of debt and you'll be fine.
Speaker 2:As long as there's cash back on that, you're fine. Or Tesco's club cards.
Speaker 3:Although this is not financial advice.
Speaker 2:No, we don't need to caveat it. We caveated it at the beginning everything we say is non-factual. Our opinion only matters, mo? You want to put a fun spin on on, uh, the cost of ocr, or have we just depressed you?
Speaker 3:If you've got the money, do what you want.
Speaker 1:God so positive.
Speaker 2:And on that note, we are going to end this episode and we're going to go spend lots of money on OCR. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Let's go spend some money all right, make it rain make it rain.
Speaker 1:Bye, bye. Thanks for watching, guys.
