Accountability Corner
Embark on an adventure with Darren, Morgan, and Chris, the dynamic trio steering the ship at "Accountability Corner." As passionate OCR enthusiasts, they're on a mission to share their expertise and enthusiasm for obstacle course racing with the world. From sharing insider tips on overcoming training plateaus to demystifying the complexities of race registration and gear selection, no stone is left unturned. Whether you're a seasoned competitor hungry for fresh perspectives or a newcomer eager to dip your toes into the muddy waters of OCR, these hosts are here to guide you every step of the way. Join them as they peel back the curtain on the electrifying world of OCR, revealing stories of triumph, camaraderie, and boundless adventure.
Don't miss out – tune in and discover why OCR is capturing hearts and minds around the globe!
Accountability Corner
#41: What makes an Elite Racer - Elite Racing Insights
Ever had a run turn into a circus act? Morgan shares his comedic mishap in Sheffield when his running belt gave out, leaving him juggling his phone and keys. This sets off a cascade of fun anecdotes and clever hacks to tackle gear malfunctions during runs. From flipping belts to neck scarves masquerading as impromptu pouches, we exchange tales of trials and triumphs on the trail. Plus, get the scoop on recent races, including a blustery half marathon in Milton Keynes and some muddy cross-country escapades.
Switching gears, we shine the spotlight on the electrifying world of elite Obstacle Course Racing (OCR). Ever wondered what it takes to conquer the 100-meter course with world record times of 23.575 seconds for men and 30.641 seconds for women? We break down the physical prowess and mental grit required to tackle daunting obstacles like monkey bars and warp walls. As we revel in the excitement of events like the British Championships at Fit Fest, you'll see why OCR's popularity is skyrocketing, drawing interest from CrossFit enthusiasts and beyond.
Finally, we dissect the anatomy of an elite athlete—whether sprinting through a 100-meter OCR course or enduring a grueling 3K race. It's all about the right mix of talent, genetics, and relentless dedication. From fine-tuning fast-twitch muscles to honing the discipline to push through discomfort, we explore what separates the good from the great. With a nod to standout UK athletes and a playful take on iconic landmarks, we paint a picture of what it takes to reach the pinnacle of performance in the exhilarating realm of obstacle course racing.
Welcome to the Accountability Corner, where we talk about everything obstacle course racing, from staying disciplined in training, affording the sport, signing up for your first race and, more importantly, how the sport is growing around the world, with your hosts Morgan Maxwell, chris Shipley and Darren Martin.
Speaker 2:Right, it is episode 41 of Accountability Corner. Welcome everyone. Everyone to another episode.
Speaker 3:Mo tell us about the delights of sheffield, because our listeners are getting very interested in your life well, sheffield today offered me something that I'm going to let you guys guess, because it's something we've talked about on this podcast before, but try and guess what happened to me on my run today, and it's to do with equipment.
Speaker 1:You joined a Chippendale group, no.
Speaker 2:You tripped over your shoelace, no.
Speaker 1:You had a Twix or Kit.
Speaker 3:Kat, no right, I'm just going to tell you because these are really far from what happened my Solomon running belt. The zip broke mid run. Told you that was going to happen, finally happened.
Speaker 2:See, I was right, as always that was a recommendation from both of you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I also said that the zit would break.
Speaker 3:I've had the belt, though, since we worked out 2021. So that's quite a few years.
Speaker 1:Have you been washing it?
Speaker 3:I do wash it like once a week, but I've always done that well, I've found that washing it makes it last longer uh, maybe that's why then.
Speaker 3:But, um, yeah, so I'm gonna have to buy another one of them. But it broke mid-run because I had to just quickly like get my phone out to change the podcast to us to music, and then I couldn't do it back up. But then I had no pockets so I had to run. I had about four miles left of an eight mile run, so literally halfway to run with my phone in my hand and my key in the other hand, and it was the worst experience ever, especially because I was on trail and there was like really muddy and quite technical and I was.
Speaker 3:You do realize there's got a pocket in the back no, but I don't trust it because it's not got the zip no, it's, it's fine. That's why I put my phone uh see, oh yeah, phone I probably could have, but my my keys, because it was just my car key and it's so small. I just didn't want to lose that and then not be able to get home. So so yeah, that was Sheffield life. That's the update this week.
Speaker 2:That's rubbish. You did a bit of a Hunter McIntyre then. You ever seen him when he's always running with his phone in hand and keys.
Speaker 1:I don't know why he does it.
Speaker 3:He normally has wired headphones as well, doesn't he?
Speaker 2:Yeah, doing tempos with everything in his hands.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I must admit it's not an experience I like, especially on the trails. I think if I was on the road you'd be all right, because you're on the trails. It's like, and also there's loads of bits on this trail because it's a lot of waterfalls and there's loads of bits where they're like stepping stones. So I'm trying to do the stepping stones not fall in, because then my key and my phone go in the water and it was.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was a scary times well, I want to tell you some tips of the trade here. Just flip the belt over around where your stuff's in and then that sort of tightens it around the holy bit and nothing will fall out yeah, that's true, that's actually a good tip, I've done that with just a buff before. I've forgotten my belt and I've used a buff. Or what do we call them? A neck sleeve without a hole, a neck scarf without a hole?
Speaker 3:An endless scarf.
Speaker 1:An endless scarf. I've used one of them, put my phone in it, twisted it around my waist and used that for a belt before.
Speaker 2:That's pretty cool.
Speaker 3:I'm quite smart.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you are quite smart sometimes.
Speaker 3:I'm a man of the world, I'm a man of the world yeah, well, I was more kind of just in panic, to be fair. I was like, oh, I don't know what to do and I don't want to really stop, and then, yeah, and it's weird because you look at my Strava and it's like 7.30,8 whatever it is, and then it's just like a 10 minute mile in there, and that's because I'll stop fucking around for a belt.
Speaker 2:That's usually when someone's going to poo.
Speaker 3:Yeah, when you see a random 9, 10, or like just a long mile. You're like normally someone's gone to the toilet.
Speaker 2:You know what's happened then. Okay, how's the training going, other than a than a broken belt going well?
Speaker 3:yeah, good, that's how I got eight miles in today. Oh, I had cross country yesterday. That sucked, as always, but it was good, good fun. Uh. But yeah, getting there, just plod along to christmas now nice and then ships.
Speaker 2:Let's let the let the listeners know about your experience. You, you last time they heard you it was all about you were busy, you needed rest, but you couldn't rest because you came down to sunny milton keynes for a stormy half marathon.
Speaker 1:Yeah it was going well, wasn't it? It was until it wasn't we were. We was having a good little battle. That sort of yearly race sort of thing that we get going on together was right there, wasn't it? We had a bit of a rivalry, it was good yeah and then just before you start your story.
Speaker 2:What shoes did you decide to wear? What?
Speaker 1:were they, I thought I'd wear some really, really speedy, but I don't. They weren't. They weren't. They were vapor flies, weren't they? Yeah yeah, I wore, vapor flies for the first time for that distance for the how did you?
Speaker 2:how did they get on for you?
Speaker 1:they blew my calves to pieces. I still can't walk properly, really.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you were flying and feeling comfortable through the first portion of the race, but they just what happened, yes.
Speaker 1:So we was having a real good little battle, weren't we? So we was in our usual spots together, as it always is, me and you running along, and I was like now this is the time when you're gonna know that I fucking should be beating you like. You beat me in the 3k. I was like this is my time to get back at you, and I was. I was right there. I sort of showed my face a few times. I was like I'm right back here, mate, don't you worry. Took a gel and I was like oh yeah, the race is on. And then, all of a sudden, mile seven. It's just the pain just started happening yeah I just couldn't run.
Speaker 2:You panicked me a bit at that mile six when I heard your heard your tones coming past me and I deliberately made that sound louder as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I just thought it was just heavy breathing, you didn't?
Speaker 2:hear any heavy breathing from me? I was, but I just thought it was just heavy breathing. You didn't hear any heavy breathing for me, I was just floating yeah, no, it was good.
Speaker 2:We kept passing each other a few times on that and a bit too miles. But then, um, yeah you, just, I was a bit worried we were going too quick and also, from my experience, always check if the water stations offer you anything else, because I went rampant ships to take the water and I didn't realize they had electrolytes and I did not need electrolyte at that point. That was a schoolboy error.
Speaker 1:That didn't taste good well, I wouldn't know, because I was actually going for that one and the lady didn't have any more when I got there. It was good. It's a shame that we didn't get to, because I would have liked to have finished that race either blowing out and not knowing how far we could have kept that speed up for, because I think you know what it's like when we're racing together or racing with your rivals. It always makes you push harder and I really would have loved to seen how hard we could have pushed towards the back end of that, rather than it sort of collapsing mid-race, especially with, like not being able to train going into it. It would have been nice just to see how, how much we actually had yeah it, it was a good race as well, mo.
Speaker 2:it was like I don't know, I don't know how to describe it. I don't know if they must have like regional races, and it was one of them. I don't know what the description is, but obviously athletics, distance running, has regional qualifications or qualifying races, a part of whatever series they've got going on. So it was one of those. So there was very decent runners out there and it made it really really cool, didn't it? Ships like you saw groups of them going off and then when we're in that sub 130 time, you do see them, but someone did it in 111 and like the worst weather, yeah it was bad, it's like they're winning time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 111 in like a storm and that's a solid.
Speaker 3:Yeah, decent, for like a local race.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and the wind was terrible at some stage stages of the race. So to get one, I thought you could only really get that sort of speed at like a, a flat course and with good conditions, but no you had a good time though, Darren, didn't you?
Speaker 1:Yeah, Not too bad, no very very pleased for don't know. You hit a good time though darren, didn't you? Yeah, not too bad, no went well, very, very pleased for you thank you regrettably say that yeah, I am regrettably saying it. I would have liked to have been about the same, but no, it's.
Speaker 2:It's so nice sometimes when they do come together like we. We, because, because we train and race so much, we see so many um different situations of racing. But and then you start to realize actually it doesn't come together. As much as it doesn't come together and and it's just nice to see it sometimes that actually you are fit, you are good, it does come together and you can block out all the rubbish races that you've had you know you keep.
Speaker 3:You're saying you're racing. Were you quite surging around each other a lot, or yeah, yeah, we were racing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we were racing, yeah um when, when ships took his jacket off and went behind me yeah, I would. Before that I was doing a 630 I was like within myself darren, fine, 630, I'll keep that. I think I got down to. I think I saw just under six when he took his jacket off because I went around the corner.
Speaker 1:I took my jacket off.
Speaker 3:Right, I took my jacket off, so you'd know it was go time no, no, no it's go time that's just not how you run a half marathon as well, so that's impressive that no, we was I.
Speaker 2:I was feeling comfortable no, yeah, it was a short period of the race. Me and ships had a bit of jostling back and forth and I'd say it's about half a mile, a mile, but the rest of it we were so so in within ourselves and in a good pace yeah nice yeah no, it was good missed out what was your time?
Speaker 3:did you say? Did you really say that?
Speaker 2:no, 124 yeah, decent, especially if you had bad weather horrendous weather yeah, the 120 will be in 2026 I think that's really doable, yeah. Yeah, I really enjoyed it. Do you know what? I absolutely loved it Like I love a half marathon. I think I've realized that's my. That is something I love, like you can be you can be calm, you can make decisions slowly, you can. You can get away with a bad start, you can get away with a bad middle.
Speaker 1:Like you can really make decisions within it, yeah, and you can surge at the end. I've often said that half, half marathon distance is one of my favorite distances I prefer. I'll still say I prefer a trail one because you got a little bit more, a bit more tactics involved and a bit more thinking about how you're gonna distribute your effort. But but that road one, even that you had like playing around with wanting to race someone, you could probably distribute your effort a little bit and play around. But yeah, I like that. I like that sort of mind games you're having with yourself and other people around. It's really enjoyable.
Speaker 2:I miss that I've realized I need to sign up for more races like that road races just just just cause they're just so much fun. Like Mo, we did one, didn't? We did the cattle creep in Milton Keynes. It was a 10 mile race, that was fun.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that was the race I got injured at the start of. Was it the start of this year?
Speaker 2:No, two years ago almost two years ago.
Speaker 3:That's when I first started having problems with my knees. So for me that race is like PTSD. But yeah, it was a good race. You don't want to do it this year. When is it Feb? Yeah, it's a good time. Oh, I could be up for it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'll be up for a 10-mile race.
Speaker 3:Ships is up for that as well. 10 miles course as a weekend, it's not like as roadie as well.
Speaker 2:It's a road race but there is bits where it's a little bit gravelly yeah, well, it's the same as um the milton keynes half marathon be the same sort of course I don't know.
Speaker 3:I remember it being a bit more. I don't know how I remember it, but I remember I thought I could wear speed goats that's what I wanted to wear last weekend.
Speaker 1:I said to you didn't I, darren, I should have worn speed goats told him to wear the carbons yeah, I'll be up for that.
Speaker 3:February. Come down, anyone listening? Come and join us Cattle.
Speaker 2:Creek, milton.
Speaker 3:Keynes cheeky 10. Get under the hour mark, that'll be the aim.
Speaker 2:Anyone listening, come and join us, cattle Creek, milton Keynes, cheeky 10. Get under the hour mark. That'll be the aim I think we should find one down me.
Speaker 1:I came up to you guys last time.
Speaker 3:Or Sheffield. I was going to say I'm coming down as well, so actually I'd rather find one near me. Yeah, it won't be very fast though, around here. No, it won't. No, I'm looking for fast, right?
Speaker 2:What are we talking about? Should we first of all just say that we appreciate all the love people have given us, especially on questions they've sent in. We put a bit of feedback out there and it's really nice to have people interact with the podcast and really appreciate it, because it really allows us to really focus and think about next year. What, what episodes, what topics, what. How can we elevate this podcast to give you more information? And obviously we have mentioned that we'd love to get like nutrition advice and things like that and I don't know what mo is doing right now just sucking, sucking on.
Speaker 1:It's a candy cane, isn't it?
Speaker 2:It's a candy cane. Listeners, he is sucking on a candy cane while I'm trying to be serious.
Speaker 3:Well, it's Christmas. This episode will be coming out a week before, or not even a week, a few days before Christmas. Yeah, I thought.
Speaker 1:I'd bring a.
Speaker 3:Christmas spirit.
Speaker 2:I'm trying to be a bit serious. Here You're just.
Speaker 3:I'm like notching on a candy cane. What's that woman chef called that like? What's her name? The one that makes everything like nigella.
Speaker 2:I know you're about the podcast, nigella. No, give me some asmr. I want you to suck it while I can hear you into the mic.
Speaker 3:Oh, lovely.
Speaker 2:Make everyone uncomfortable while I listen to this Especially if they've got headphones on. No, that's a good segue, because within our Patreon, we're going to get exclusive content. Now it's going to be Mo sucking on a candy cane.
Speaker 3:It's like a little night thing before you go to bed who needs fan noise when you can get that, we can make a series out of this. What, what's mo sucking? The topic of the episode I don't know.
Speaker 2:I was gonna say that, um, I really really want people to christmas time and giving. Please share up. Just share the podcast. That's. That's the main thing, especially when we start to get a bit more informative with our guests. Like, share it with other people that may not know OCR. We promise not to mention it too much, but we obviously will chuck it in now, now and again, but some of the content we do is beneficial for anyone really. So, yeah, please share it.
Speaker 1:Beneficial even for us.
Speaker 2:Yep, right now we can start talking, because Mo stopped sucking on his candy cane.
Speaker 2:What even is this Did you want to talk about? No, this is you. Oh, yeah, sorry it's me. Okay, we just talked about times. I've got 124 in a half marathon, but we know that is a good time, but we know that there are many amazing people out there. We are like one percent of the population of of good runners, and then the 0.5 percent and the 0.1 percent. They are just exceptional. And what I thought would be good to talk about is what is what is elite in ocr? What even is it? What does elite even mean? And how do you become elite? And I thought, mo, we could start from the very minutiae part of ocr, or the smallest part of OCR, and that is probably 100 meters, or is 100 meters definitely. Do we get any smaller than 100 meters? I think that's yeah, do we?
Speaker 1:90 meters 90. That's what they're doing, isn't it always the?
Speaker 2:pentathletes do 90, don't they 100? There you go, okay. Well, let's start with 100 meters.
Speaker 3:So what is elite you over to you two well, 100 meters, elite, the world record, obviously with the 100 meters. The nice cool thing about it is that they can have world records because it's the same course every time. I believe the current world record is 23 seconds or 23.5 seconds. It's actually 23.575 because they go down to the real decimal. That's the male elite, isn't it? That's the male elite, and then the female is 30.641. Is that?
Speaker 1:by? Is that by? Is it either Peaches? Is it Peaches Precious? Sorry, not Peaches.
Speaker 3:No, that is by the Polish lady, kaziak. Yeah, I'm going to butcher it, so thanks for that, kat. Yeah, I'm going to butcher it. I'm not going to butcher it, so thanks for that, um, cat. Oh, yeah, I'm gonna butcher it. I'm not gonna go there, um, but yeah, the polish lady that wins everything, that's all I know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're phenomenal. So that's the time of 100 meters. So the 100 meter course for anyone who doesn't know, 100 meters is, there was fit fest a few weekends ago was the british championships and it looked incredible. We even had crossfit athletes giving it a go. So that looked cool. Um, but it's essentially it's 100 meter course with varying obstacles attesting different attributes, and they're very short, sharp obstacles. So you've got monkey bars, you've got rings, you've got rope. You've got monkey bars, you've got rings, you've got rope. You've got a wall, got balance beam, and then you've got a warp wall.
Speaker 2:Not all in that order but some sort of order to that. But it's super quick and super fast. So attributes to become a very good 100 meter obstacle athlete has got to be fast, twitch muscle fibers, powerful and fast and really rapid coordination yeah I'd agree with you on that yeah well, how?
Speaker 2:how would you become? It ships like how do? How? Does someone like listening to this? Especially? We want to get people in the sport. How do they become? Become an elite and what like elite times is 20, that's crazy seconds, like we've got people doing it in like a minute and a half. But how do you, how do you get better at that?
Speaker 1:well, I think this especially right to become elite in 100 meters, you definitely need the three majors, you need genetics, you need practice and you need execution okay.
Speaker 2:So if you're growing up in the sport, you need also need access, you need to have an accessibility to to practice 100 meters, because it's so strict and it's so um formulaic, like it's the same format every time so you need to be able to practice it let's compare it, because if you compare it to the closest counterpart of 100 meters, you wouldn't compare it to track 100 meters, you'd compare it to speed climbing yeah, yeah, that's.
Speaker 1:That's a good comparison, probably closest comparison you can get, and they're basically the only way that the climbers and they're still if you compared it to that, they're still breaking world records in the climbing discipline of speed climbing, and it's just because these people are getting more and more practice at that same maneuver. It's sort of like muscle memory in a way. So being able to practice on 100 meters course is probably the most beneficial thing to start with than you need, than anything else. I think if you have accessibility to 100 meters course, then that will trump your genetics to start with and it will trump your skill to start with, because if you can practice, you and you've got to be good at it ish, do you know, you can't just be like if you're to be elite, you've got to be pretty good anyway. So yeah, accessibility.
Speaker 3:I think that's also the difference at the minute with the 100 metres currently, because I think in the beginning you saw that a lot the people that had more access to similar environments to the course, the Polish people, the Indonesian people.
Speaker 3:People that had access to the course did a lot better. I think the gap is being kind of shortened now, especially even like the people in britain, because we don't necessarily have direct access to the course, but because they've got to do the course more at events, so they're already starting to learn and then they're going to their training centers and building similar things. Um, it's not going to be, you're not going to get a real, real top-end elite until everyone's got access to the course. But I think at the minute that is the main thing for 100 metres is access.
Speaker 1:Have you guys ever read the book called the Sports Gene?
Speaker 2:No, not sure.
Speaker 1:So in that right they talk about, uh, regional areas of like goodness. So like to say, for example, you've got jamaica and you've got the people who run 100 meters in jamaica, because that's like their number one sport. They're more likely to find sprinters because everyone's doing sprinting. It's the same with all sorts of sports all over the place, because if something's popular, you're more likely to get something out the gene pool to have something that's good, that makes sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so does popularity drive participation.
Speaker 1:That drives practice to the sport and then it drives talent, because you're well practiced and you yeah, you got a bigger, a bigger pool of looking for people. It's like dipping that net in a big pool of fish and getting out all the big ones, because those are just big ones in there yeah, because if it's your sport that you're kind of your country's famous for, it's like even like cricket.
Speaker 3:If you look at, like india, how much they love cricket and then they get loads of cricketers that are really really good. There's probably really really good cricketers around the world everywhere, but in maybe a place in africa that they don't play cricket, so here's they're not playing it here's a question for you, then, because obviously we're all very good at obstacles and we all can do obstacle course racing in its very overarching form.
Speaker 2:So why? Why are we not elite at 100 meters?
Speaker 1:because we don't do it and we're not explosive.
Speaker 2:Mo's probably a little bit more explosive than us, so he's probably got better potential to be a better 100 meters than us twos so once you start to understand the specifics of the support sport and get really um into the weeds of understanding how you can perform, that's when talent and well, just talent wins, do you reckon?
Speaker 3:talent or a mixture of talent and someone that works hard will always win. Because there is genetics is a thing, and people are just more adapted to things than others. So any top end at any sport, the person that's the most genetically gifted for that sport and is willing to actually work hard and dedicate their life to that sport is the winner. Yeah, you can't be a winner and not be talented.
Speaker 1:Yeah, You've got to have the whole package Talent, genetics and hard work.
Speaker 3:Sometimes I'd say there's not necessarily a luck element as well, but there's also, like, so say, the 100 metres in athletics, for example, the time when Usain Bolt was around, he was winning all the races because he was the best and is one of the best ever. Imagine if kind of you got rid of him. There'd then be another winner. But sometimes it depends on the area you're in and kind of where, where you are in the world, and also who's around you.
Speaker 2:There is a luck element sometimes, but or just being born at the right time do you think we probably started on one that's got a lot more variables to it, because or or it's no, not no, it hasn't got a lot more variables to it's very specific because 100 meters there is. There is literally zero margin for error. So do you think that they will end up that an elite athlete needs to be 5'11", this arm length, they need to be this powerful, this coordinated and this strong? Do you reckon it's going to be very specific because everything is so I don't know.
Speaker 3:It's just I don't think it will be like every other sport. It will be. There'll be similar sort of people at the top and then, especially for a sport like 100 metres, it'll be the person that makes the least mistakes and is the most consistent and is actually very good that wins all the time. At the minute, there still seems to be a little bit of an inconsistency when you watch 100 metres, when you're at the World Champs or if you were there the other day at British Champs, whether it is, you see people failing stuff still, and there's going to be a time in the sport where no one's failing anything because they've got so much access and it's just the person that makes the least mistakes always wins at the top end yeah, I reckon you could end up with 100 meters doing.
Speaker 2:How, having a very different training program to to a, say, 15k course athlete, that is super. It should already be different.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I know, but I mean it should already be different. If you're training for 100 meters, you should not be trying to dip your hand in 1500, unless you're doing it for passion, because it's like they're two different athletes.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you do not see sprinters training for you don't even see sprinters training for 1k, if you want to be elite you need to be really specific in terms of like 100 meters and maybe if you're a good runner and you're good at obstacles right now in this current kind of day and age, you'll do right. But you can. Probably the rarest time in a sport is OCR at the minute where you can actually be a bit flexible, is ocr at the minute where you can actually be a bit flexible. But there will be a point, if this sports gets bigger, where people will be real specific yeah, no, but I think what all I'm saying is that 100 meters is you.
Speaker 2:It's very hard to dabble at other versions of obstacle course racing. If you want to be elite in 100 meters, you want to be elite, yeah, yeah yeah because, but then obviously there's still that small majority of elites at the moment.
Speaker 1:Well, there's what? How many, how many? Well, to be fair, I wonder how much that does go because a decent someone who pulls out a decent time can battle for a decent position at the moment, because there is, like we said, on 100 meters.
Speaker 3:Oh, because, because people do make mistakes and things now yeah, yeah, and this is where kind of not luck, but will. In 10 years time, if you look at the sport of 100 meters, the champions that are champions now will probably be not even kind of if you compare their times, not even in the kind of top, I don't know five, ten maybe there and thereabouts. But because the sport is so new, it's going to evolve so much more and the course, yeah, and the course could change. You don't know what's going to happen with that, but yeah we're looking at the very beginning.
Speaker 1:You wait until you start getting the athletes coming through who are, like you know, like born for it and like being like growing up to it, and then you'll see like the gaps between things being like six meters and it'll be like lache between six meter monkey bar things, and they'll be still doing it in 22 seconds yeah it'd be like these complete mutants of physical prowess, wouldn't it?
Speaker 2:Well, if you have a kid right now that's been to obstacle course, racing into the ninja sort of parks and everything, and you live near Bath, for instance, in the future potentially Bath might have its own course there and that child could then just practice there every day from the age of 10. They they will be dominant in the sport because we're taught and they're already good at it and they've got talent. So talent, persistence, consistent to training and then accessibility creates an elite of 100 meter obstacle course athlete. You forgot one as well. Oh, did I? Sorry? What was it? Yeah, accountability, accountability. Yeah, as long as they listen to this podcast and stay accountable. Well, um, this I think that we can. We could probably go around the round and houses a little bit with that, but 100 meters. But I think we the main, the main thing at the minute, is accessibility to the course and to prefer practice. It's very hard to mimic it in training venues at the minute to become elite like an elite athlete.
Speaker 1:If you probably go around and interview all of them, they've pretty much trained pretty persistent and consistent on 100 meter course yeah, yeah, I think all the people at the tops, if they haven't had access, or or even some of them, are going to a lot of places to get that exposure yeah, all right, and I think if the ones that haven't, because the sport, like I say, because they've had more access recently, because we've had more championship events, even like croatia, and then now in dubai, like there's been more opportunity as well.
Speaker 3:So the countries like our country is a good example of this, a country that necessarily doesn't have the course right now to go and train on, but they have a facility where they can mimic some bits and then they're getting exposure at events. That then countries are starting to get a bit better. But there's always going to be a gap when you don't have the course.
Speaker 2:Yeah, all right, quick. Another question for you, moving on what makes an elite 3K obstacle course racing athlete? What's your top things for that? Dark and handsome and a scaffolder and a scaffolder.
Speaker 3:I'm afraid any 3K champion ever has been a scaffolder and a scaffolder.
Speaker 2:I'm afraid any 3k champion ever has been a scaffolder no and also I'm being very harsh on every single one of us in this podcast today is that because we are not elite, we are. That's the reason for the conversation. We're not right now, mo. Just don't take it. Right now we are not, we're not near elite, and no, I'm a. Don't take it right now. We are not, we're not near elite.
Speaker 3:And no, I'm a prime example of what I just said a minute ago. In this country I can get on the podium because our quality isn't good. As soon as our quality picks up and we get a good level of racing in this country, then I shouldn't be podiuming right now. I mean I should be because I'm training to work hard, whatever. But if you look at the real, real top guys and look at the times they can run like the UK is just so far behind yeah, but.
Speaker 2:I think, we're just talking in general, aren't we like 3k elite athlete, if you just generalise it and look at your times compared to? Well, actually, probably we should be looking at Russell, since for the men, obviously he won the 3K British Championships. He won it with a minute, I think almost on you, mo, didn't he? Yeah, so he was a minute ahead on our 3K British Championship course, but the European Championship course he came 19th and was four minutes behind the winner. So when you look at those numbers, it's Russ isn't even do we consider Russ elite. I suppose he is our elite athlete.
Speaker 3:I think, top 20 is is elite, I think if you're getting in top 20, because, especially in a sport with so many different variables, that it's. I think it's impressive. Maybe it's not quite if you compare it to other sports. Maybe it'd be like, I don't know, the top guy at your running club. He's not quite breaking into like the Olympics, but if he went to your regional level or decent level run he'd do all right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you've gone more controversial than I thought there, because I was thinking, because obviously he's qualified elite, he races elite, you classify yourself as elite but obviously, if you speak, if the sport starts to get bigger and we're having like elite, like well, we might I'm going to reference it high rocks obviously have their elite 15. So they've been very specific and just have 15 people as their elite athletes, which I actually I actually like because yeah, I like that it, it really it really celebrates the athletes. Even spartan did it once, didn't they? Like they had the spartan, well, they had the spartan pro team and they celebrated those.
Speaker 2:But yeah, you're right, 15th to 20th, you consider yourself like you are the best of the best in the sport and you have that opportunity to train, to have their, to actually improve your time to become the best. But it's like, what makes, what do you reckon makes an elite 3k athlete? Like what attributes do you think you need? Because we spoke about power, um, speed, hand-eye coordination is for like 100 meters and accessibility came out almost on top. What makes 3k?
Speaker 3:same, similar, very similar and just a good endurance runner yeah you'd just be able to be able to handle 5k kind of distance, effort wise, I would say more.
Speaker 1:I would say for a free for a 3k course. You need to be able to run a 10k race. Hard to run a 3k. I reckon it's 10k sort of road or trail sort of run at high intensity. That's what I'd say is closer to a 3k.
Speaker 3:Yeah again it's hard because it's course dependent. But if you if you're a good for 10k, you've normally got a decent 5k on you. So no matter whether it's 18 minutes or whether it's you're running for 30 minutes, you'll be able to sustain a good effort for that do you know what comes out on top for me when I think about 3k?
Speaker 2:okay, it's very. I'm trying to think of, like the specifics and the difference between 3K, 15, 100 metres. 3k is work ethic. You need to be able to hurt in a 3K and you need to be able to go to a higher limit than even a 5K PB Mo. Is that threshold or is it beyond threshold? You need to go.
Speaker 1:It's probably the back end you need to be lacked. Is it lactate?
Speaker 3:it depends, though, because I think I don't. I could disagree, because I think, as long as you're flowing for obstacles and yes, for us we're probably working at our top end. But the elites, obviously you're working at your top end, but they're so much fitter they're not going to be, if we're talking, a pure elite athlete. You're working on that red line, but you wouldn't go necessarily into it, and it'll be painful, but it's a race.
Speaker 1:It's not going to be nice, yeah, but if they're racing other elites, they're basically doing what we're doing against other people in that same category. I think you've got to be able to make you need to make those decisions at the end hard. You need to be able to get to that hard point.
Speaker 3:Them decisions still need to be available.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they need to be available, but then you need to have the mindset to to make push.
Speaker 3:Yeah I. I mean you could say it's fresh. Yeah, fresh old effort is I like the example of it's like a 10k road road race sort of feeling with hay bales put in the middle.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like you're jumping over yeah, as in effort level, it's like so I said at the start I had cross country yesterday, yeah, and that reminded me so much of a short course ocr. It's just all out, especially because we had inclines as well, but it's just like, it's a horror. It's one of the worst feelings you'll probably ever have, because it is just painful and it's just survival.
Speaker 2:But so what even is it like at the minute? Elite and then we've we can compare it to the uk because we just did. Our comparison is that elite in the world is four minutes ahead of any the best that we've got in the uk in in a in a 3k course. It's four minutes quicker.
Speaker 3:That's yeah which is quite a big. It's quite a big time frame. But actually in obstacle racing it's not in a weird way, because there is so many variables yeah, but there, yes, there is variable margin for error.
Speaker 2:But you can. I feel like if you've got that work capacity and that fitness, you can make up for them in some well. No, I think, I don't think you can in a free care you have to be on it.
Speaker 3:Take that back. Yeah, I think free k is is almost like the 100 meters where it's very specific. You have to really know your obstacles. You can't just get away.
Speaker 2:You can't you can't get away run fitness.
Speaker 3:You have to know your obs, and that's why I also think you need to have some sort of like safeguard in terms of how quick you are working, because you need to be getting to them obstacles with decisions. You can't get to them obstacles and be so burnt out that you're struggling with them.
Speaker 3:It's something we've talked about before where you get really good ultra guys win 3Ks or really good endurance people do well at 3K Just because actually you need to know your limits of it. I don't think you can't. You need to know your limits of it. You can't, I don't think you can go all out what about accessibility?
Speaker 2:I, I personally don't think accessibility's and as much as it's definitely not as much as an issue as it is in 100 meters, but I think you do need you need obstacles.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it starts to.
Speaker 2:It's like 100% needed on 100 metres, Then you go to like 60% needed for the 3K, I'd say because you need to practice obstacles fast, specific, and be going into them with a high heart rate.
Speaker 1:And have backup. You need to be able to make those well. You need to be able to make sure you're completing them. Obstacles when you make a little bit of a mistake, yeah, and not burn out. You need to know how that's gonna, how you're going to react and how you're going to change your tactics to keep going you can't.
Speaker 2:You can't become elite in the 3k without simulating the race.
Speaker 3:Yeah, in training yeah, I think, and also you, the difference between the 100 and the 3k. The 100 you need to work on specific obstacles in a certain pattern, whereas the 3k you need to work on multiple different styles of obstacles and then also work on multiple ways of how you feel getting into them obstacles and going out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you need to be what's the one where it's like jack of all trades but master yeah, that's what you need to be for a freek, you need to have a big toolbox, but you don't know what tool you're going to be using at any given time. 100 meters it's like you've got a spanner and a and a and that's all you need to be good at. Yeah, go to work. Yeah.
Speaker 1:It'd be better with a hammer and a nail. Oh sorry, oh no, you could use a spanner and a hammer.
Speaker 2:Tommy would be loving that one. Give that for him a T-shirt. He's got his spanner and his hammer. Yeah, anything else on the 3k, I think obviously I, we like, we've said it, we can. We can go so much detail. This, like the training specifics, how you simulate training in a 3k. We talked about ocr long runs, but I think they're more. Yeah, they do work for 3k as well. There's so many things we can go into, like what makes elite. Elite and Jesse and Stein are actually they share their training, so go follow them what they call the OCR guys on Instagram.
Speaker 1:Some of the stuff they're doing at speed is unbelievable. They're doing everything we talk about.
Speaker 2:Everything on this podcast we talk about they're doing it's not a massive secret at the minute it accessibility to obstacles, to build your toolbox up, to work at a high capacity, to be able to make decisions and know what decisions to make in a quick um in a quick environment, while doing a 3k race. Do you know?
Speaker 1:what I think doesn't matter as much in the 3k.
Speaker 2:What's that?
Speaker 1:Genetics? Well, maybe not genetics, but body type. Yeah, because? Because, because you're a jack of all trades, master of none, that body type doesn't actually matter, because you could be a tall, lean, mean machine, or you could be a tall, lean, mean machine, or you could be a stocky, uh, wolverine style powerhouse. And both athletes would be good. They'd both share different attributes that would make them either excel at one discipline or part of the course than the other because there's not a big gap between excelling at that attribute of running.
Speaker 2:They actually counteract one another. So someone who's powerful and strong on a or against someone who's nimble and got endurance, they could actually, on a good, balanced 3k course, could actually counteract each other and have a really good race yeah, it's probably the most inclusive of distances yeah, I'd still, and I'd still say I'd still favor the runner always, though put your money on them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah yeah, I think that's the only, that's the only attribute that needs to be there against all body types is having that endurance and engine.
Speaker 2:Does it need to be like we're talking about how to be elite here? Are we talking like your running needs to be a specific time in a 5K to be good at a 3K race?
Speaker 1:No, I think you just need to be able to hold output for a long period of time. I don't think it necessarily needs to be, still need to tick over fast, but I think you can get away with being able to move fast what?
Speaker 2:what would you judge me on if you were like, if you, if I came in to say you had a gym ships and said that you need to judge me if I'm a freak elite athlete, would you judge me more on my running, my work capacity or my obstacle proficiency to be an elite at 3k race?
Speaker 1:I'd have to do all of them.
Speaker 2:You couldn't, you couldn't judge me on one, but you can't, you can't.
Speaker 1:No, over to you. You'd have to do running.
Speaker 3:But yeah, you'd go running you'd, because it doesn't matter how good you are at obstacles if you're running a 20 minute 5k, you're not gonna make it as an elite okay, so that that that's our fundamental thing.
Speaker 2:We found it. You're saying that to become elite, you're you need to be fundamentally good at running.
Speaker 3:To become elite at 3k yeah, and again, I think it's quite course dependent as well certain athletes oh, let's not get into that course, but I do.
Speaker 3:I do think that you have to be and I wouldn't necessarily think I don't think there's like a time that you have to be able to do this in a 5k or this in the 10k, but I think I'd say a top elite person. You have to be running under 36 minutes in the 10k if you want to be good at 3k. I don't think you can. Said it actually hang with the elites if you're not yeah, it's 100.
Speaker 1:Those top, top, elite guys are so fast. I mean they're whack. I mean the newer courses that they're doing, which tend to be quite flat and obstacles tend to be just hanging obstacles and a few balance beams they're whacking them down. In what? 13 minutes?
Speaker 2:oh, there was the Dubai ones. That was stupidly quick.
Speaker 1:I doubt there was any obstacles in there well, there seems to be obstacles, but when it's just hanging obstacles and you don't have many of the the other obstacles that we used to have, like your trove early and traverses and loads of walls and road work and over-unders and weavers- yeah, the more kind of sapping obstacles that take it out really from your lower half especially, but also just whole whole body like yeah, that whole body movement yeah, whereas jumping on a like I, I could do an interval session where I was doing, let's say, 800 meters and doing a set of rings or a rig, and I don't think I'd be.
Speaker 3:I would only be the time that rig takes me off my normal times, if that that makes sense. It wouldn't slow my reps down by any more than whatever the rig's taken me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'd probably be about the same on that, wouldn't you? Yeah?
Speaker 3:Whereas if you put walls in, I think my reps get slower. Yeah, like more than the walls.
Speaker 1:Take me as soon as you're going like, just constricting your breathing, that's as soon as you do, that, it's like as soon as you. That's what makes the obstacle course hard is when you're having to change your breathing pattern all the time. Maybe we should start doing breath work. You know, like um. I follow this dude on instagram. He's um. He's a free diver. Maybe we should start doing like breath work so we can work at a capacity of like, not having to breathe, just it's just we.
Speaker 2:We hold our breath at so many different intervals, and that's that's what really messes me up sometimes.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I also think that's what makes a leak going back to this conversation, the specific, like, specifics, specificity or whatever the word is of like doing breath work and doing them little minor things that some people will look at and go, oh why am I doing that? I think that's where a lot of the top guys I think kind of Jesse Stein, frank, basically the hang on guys, as we call them If you look at them on social media, they're doing everything so specific to the race that's coming up and that's the elite. The guy that's just going out and running on sand because he knows he's got a sand race coming up but then he's done it once a month or not done his intervals and he's just done two or three long runs on a bit of sand, he's the guy that's going to pay it's pure focus, isn't it pure selfish focus on the goal?
Speaker 2:that's what it is. It's I don't care, I got tunnel vision. This is what I need to do and I'm getting it done, and it's also that you they bring it into their social lives. They bring into their lives, but they also bring it into their training, like we could easily right now, all three of us well, we do, to some regard, train as much as them on the, on the fundamental training elements that they do, but all the admin and the piddly shit that they do, we neglect and sometimes don't do. And that adds up another five to six hours of training in the week that they are just doing as the elite, like they are.
Speaker 2:They are stabilized, they're. They are strengthening every stabilizer muscle they have found a weakness in, say, like their shoulder joint or something that's going on when they're doing monkey bars and they're perfecting it and stretching it and strengthening it. They are, they're finding every marginal gain you can possibly see and they're doing all the metric testing of the metrics of these, like, if you see what they do, it's like every six weeks there's a test when are my weaknesses? What have I improved? How does a training block need to change. Okay, let's adapt, let's go again. Okay, let's do blood work, let's do this. So they're really going through it and it sounds expensive and it probably is, and going through it and and it sounds expensive and it probably is, and they're probably spending their own money on it. It's the commitment you're like. That's like I just said, the selfish commitment to the cause is what they're doing.
Speaker 1:That's elite at the moment at the moment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sponsors welcome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, when that changes, then they'll just need to turn up and have that talent and that desire and that drive, but then that other piddly shit might be taken care of, and then that's. Then they'll just need to turn up and have that talent and that desire and that drive, but then that other piddly shit might be taken care of, and then that's when you'll get to the next level of elite we're not even that.
Speaker 2:I can't wait to watch this sport while I'm when I'm in my 80s, watching it on tv. It's gonna look, I'll be, I'll be commentating oh yeah, yeah, you probably will be fund it.
Speaker 3:I don't know about you, but I think also in the last few years, especially in Europe, there's been a real turning point in that. I think at the beginning of the sport it was a lot of people that were just kind of trail runners and they thought, ah, I'll just give this a go, and they were almost the not caring types, and then the fittest people just won, whereas now I think the tide is turning where people are getting real specific, more than they've ever done.
Speaker 1:That's because you've got younger people coming in through it. You've got people who are becoming well being in the sport just longer having that time to develop.
Speaker 3:Okay, thank you.
Speaker 1:It's so right, yeah, that's the luck. That's the luck bit, isn't it? That's the luck bit that my was on about earlier. Yeah, well no. I yeah, in 2023. Yeah, yeah, that came together. Well, something like that. Yeah, in my age group. Yeah, everything, everything, yeah, that's, and you've got to be one selfish mofo, yeah.
Speaker 3:I think there's a lot of similarities to 3k the one the one. The one thing I would say is you can get away with a little bit more the longer the distance is. I think, especially if you're a good runner, you can get away with not necessarily mistakes, but if you're a bit slower on the obstacles it doesn't matter as much.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, I totally agree. Well, we've had this conversation.
Speaker 2:I still think you're.
Speaker 3:I still think you're not on the podium if you fail an obstacle yeah, you are.
Speaker 1:Look at Spartan Beast World Championships yeah, I guess, yeah, yeah if you can run fast and you can build that gap, you can afford to make mistakes on a few obstacles because you've you gaining that time back, you, you, you got to be able to get back to being a phenomenal runner once you stop running and you do something. Because if you can't get back to running, you know if it takes you. It takes you a few yards to get back to running. But if you can get on an obstacle, faff around for a bit, blow a little bit of breathing out the window and then get off the obstacle and then get back into running, well, you are an elite obstacle long distance racer.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 3:Okay, no, no, but I think if your run ceiling is high, so let's say you're a good example of this. If you could take I don't know even elliot kipchoge, one of the best marathon guys I've seen of all time someone like that, if you took them and put them into a 15k, maybe not all the time they'll be podiuming, but I think without no training they'll be in the top five yeah maybe I don't, I think running is going to be that important.
Speaker 3:I think maybe if they fall off three or four obstacles, then they might miss out on the podium. But I think, yeah, I think, and I think if you give them six, even six weeks of just real specific, even six weeks of just real specific, like not even that specific, but just hanging on a bar, I think you could limit some mistakes as well. I think you may be, they can't be so you need, they need to have a little bit of muscle mass, like they need to be able to do maybe one or two pull-ups going into it.
Speaker 3:but no that's too slow. Yeah, you'd, you'd know, I think you need like one. It has to be like one seven, one eight, I think.
Speaker 1:Then will we? I think if they're doing 107 in the half marathon, they're probably getting something that's probably like.
Speaker 3:They're probably like british level, yeah we're here for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, pick one. There's quite a few they basically?
Speaker 3:who would you say? So the best uk guy at the minute? What dan tickham? He's. So the best UK guy at the minute? What Dan Tickham? He's probably the best 15K. So you'd have to be quicker than him. I'm not sure what his half PB is.
Speaker 1:What's his 10K? There you go. He's probably well low on the 10. He's probably 107 or less. That's probably him, so I'll ask him tomorrow without doing obstacles.
Speaker 3:You've got to be quicker than that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if you're just stepping into the sport he's the only one who beat me at 20 and he's the only one who beat me in 2023. Yeah, yeah, he was the Sorry. What was that? Again, I reckon he could have done better on that one. That's course, dependent a little bit. I'll give him a little bit more on that. Yeah, not 10 minutes. Yeah, 10 minutes. I don't know.
Speaker 3:I'd say he's one of the only people in this country, though, that is close to that elite door right now.
Speaker 1:I think in terms of that distance.
Speaker 3:That yeah well, andrea is elite if we're looking at just like men and women. But I'm saying men she is elite, but I'm talking about worldwide. If you took dan in this country, obviously he's elite, but if you took worldwide, he's the only one that if you had to say, if there was a real like hard line of you're not coming in because you're not elite, I think me and russ are out, I think dan's in in this country. I think he's the only one stepping on that line. Yeah, he's got all the attributes to be stepping in. Could say Tom Tweddle, but we haven't seen enough of him this year to kind of push it. But if you're talking about running metrics, he's probably got the right sort of running metrics.
Speaker 1:What about in the women's field then? Well, I'd say Andrea, Andrea definitely.
Speaker 3:That's probably it.
Speaker 1:Emi.
Speaker 3:No, not quick enough If we're talking pure just running metrics.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because we haven't seen Emi on that longer distance performer, that thing.
Speaker 3:The women's field is hard because it's not as big. The depth is. Fedde is elite. But again, if we're just going, on running metrics, they're probably yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, mm-hmm. Yep, you could be a strong trail runner. You could be a trail runner who climbs yeah, yeah, but but that I think still I think, still like specific people.
Speaker 3:So I think we're misreading that a little bit. I think you have to be a just a trail runner to do well. I think still you have to be really specific. I think if, if you look at Stein and Jesse in Italy especially, there was runners there that are as good as runners, especially on that hill, and how crazy the trail was, but because they were so specific, that also helped with their win.
Speaker 1:Maybe that's where it comes to it, maybe that's where in comes to it, maybe that's where, in the the long course one, you do need to have that specificity of that course to get that extra gain, because your competitors have that, that same attribute. You they're probably strong trail runners, so you need that extra factor. You need to do your homework, know the course, prepare for that course, so you can push and do well on that terrain better than the other competitors who you're running against. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I'll go that, yeah, giving them a beacon, nah, giving them a beacon, no, that's the difference. They're not listening, they're not talking about it, they're doing it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I just want to go back to that point earlier as well, obviously because we were talking about a lot of people in the UK, uk scene. Obviously we're talking about pure running metrics and the top level. That's not necessarily you are elite in the uk right now, obviously because, well, freddie's a good example for that. She's winning races, but I think that next jump to like a lindsey webster level. That's what we're talking about.
Speaker 3:Just to really make that point clear so we're not insulting everyone yeah, no, and I think the athletes you've mentioned would agree with us. But we're not talking uk elite scene, I'd say and this might offend people, but I'd say most of the who want to call themselves elite in the uk are probably closer to age group than they are elite, if we're being really honest.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're talking about that, Mount Rushmore, aren't we?
Speaker 3:Yeah, we're talking about top 10, top 5 at your world championship events. We're not talking top 20.
Speaker 1:What could we call it instead of Mount Rushmore, because that's too American.
Speaker 3:Snowdonia, it's mount snowdon. What's that?
Speaker 1:what's that, you know, when you're going up the big, big bend? Well, I was gonna say what's that statue, the one that's got the wings?
Speaker 3:uh, the the one in new, like near newcastle. What's that statue? The one that's got the wings? The one near Newcastle.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what's that one called?
Speaker 3:Yeah, the Northern Lady, Lady of the North.
Speaker 1:That's what we'll have the Lady of the North and Big Ben's.
Speaker 3:No, is it the Angel of the North? The Lady? Yeah, angel of the North, your phone, hidden phone contacts. That's what I'm saved as now. Yeah, yeah, yeah, because we mentioned a lot of names, I think, and it always can get quite touchy when you hear yourself being talked about. But, like I said, and I think the people that we've talked about anyway would understand what we're saying, but to make everyone clear, so that the fangirls of some of these people, we're not talking necessarily how bad they are, we're talking about how good the likes of the top end are they said it.
Speaker 1:They said it on before on MotoGP, when Valentino Rossi and Jorge Lorenzo, and that because they were like such a step above everyone, they just called them the aliens, and I used to love that. They were just like out of this world. Pure specimens of talent, skill, just aliens, because they're not of this world. Pure specimens of talent, skill, just aliens, because they're not of this world and what makes an alien.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what is an alien?
Speaker 3:yeah, I think, though as well I mean this might sound like I'm trying to butt people up I think the uk has got quite good potential. I mean you've just said, looking at dan's times, over a 10k I think actually we has got quite good potential. I mean, you've just said, looking at Dan's times, over a 10K, I think actually we do have some good potential. It's just we don't have the access, like we talked about in 100 metres, to kind of bridge that gap right now. You just need to be a psychopath, I think. You just I think it's worse than an ultra, because it's just so gruelling Not that ultras are nice anyway, but why you want to throw a load of obstacles in mud and like world's toughest mudder is just people that have a bit of a screw loose.
Speaker 3:I want to do that, yeah, but you have a bit of a screw loose.
Speaker 1:Oh right, yeah, I just don't have the time to train for it yeah sorry I wouldn't say I wouldn't have the time to train for it, I haven't got the time to recover for it, to do the other bits that I want to do. But yeah, I haven't got time to specify, because I do believe that you need to put to be elite in ultra. You need to do lots and lots of science, you need to do lots and lots of time, you need to think about a lot of factors, because it's not sure you need to know exactly what's going on. And to be elite, you've got to know everything. You've got to be so specific. Have a big engine, yeah, yeah. And your mind, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's the difference with elite, because mindset will probably get you really, really far at a lower level, but when it really comes to winning, that's when those things come into play I also think this is an area where the gap between speed gets kind of comes back down to quite an even playing field.
Speaker 3:I think we've had quite good examples now of ocr ultra running where not always the quote-unquote best runner on the day has won. It is someone that just gets all the little things right gets knows. A good example is dj fox uh, world's toughest mother. There were some real big good ocr athletes there and he just kind of ran through the field, started at the pace he wanted to be at, picked them all off one by one and just got all the little things right. And I think if you do that, speed isn't necessarily the deciding factor.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah yeah, and you do have to have a screw loose. Yeah, I think that's number one.
Speaker 1:I think you've got to have some inner demons no, because whenever you do long stuff, that's when your mind goes to a different place. And you don't have demons in a different place, you have conversations with them you gotta have them demons to have a conversation with, though.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you gotta find him somewhere. Yeah, yeah, you gotta find him somewhere. I think that's also people that do well in that sort of space is the people that crave a bit of adventure and excitement yeah, love equipment.
Speaker 1:I need nutrition.
Speaker 3:I need a bag for nutrition yeah, that's going to get expensive real quick. Yeah, uh, I'm delusional and I always think of it. So, yeah, I still think I've got a good chance of getting there. I think I've got to get a lot of things right. And the thing is, this sort of conversation is a conversation I'm very open to have with people, but I think it's a conversation that people are scared to have because it's quite hard hitting. But I'm I would always say that I am not elite yet, but I strive to be elite, to be that next level. So that's why I put myself there and put myself in them situations. But yeah, I know where I'm at and kind of I'm quite realistic with myself, even though I'm quite egotistical. Yeah, yeah, I want to be. I want to be dinging the bell, dinging, sucking on a candy cane you know what makes me feel elite?
Speaker 1:yeah, because in my own world not competition world, but in my life and that I am actually elite. Fuck, I'm kicking it, I'm doing all right and although I'm not winning the competitions, I'm training my ass off, I'm enjoying myself, I'm doing the best I could do and, even though it doesn't get me the results I want to get, when you look back and you think about it, you think, hang on a minute, this is pretty, uh, it's pretty incredible what you're able to do, and I don't think you know. You can't take that away, because you're just doing things that so many other people can't do. Even though you're not at the top of the game, you're still elite. Yeah, yeah, you're just elite at life. Thank you, make sense, you're a switcher. Yeah, yeah, makes sense, you're a switcher.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, enjoy it, but enjoy it? Yeah, I wonder if it. I just hope it doesn't put anyone off for just trying to work hard and be the best that they can be. It shouldn't do because it doesn't. It doesn't. It doesn't does it because it doesn't make any.
Speaker 3:No, the game looks like yeah, it's now, we're in hogwarts yeah, just if you're not, just because you're not making, you might not be hitting some. Maybe the boundary we would be said today Doesn't mean you can't. That's the other thing.
Speaker 1:Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. There's juniors that listen to this and they might just be elite.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah yeah, and a lot of the league guys were where you are right now. At one stage, especially in our sport, there's a lot of people that didn't come from fancy running backgrounds. They were doing 20 minute 5ks or 22 minute 5ks at one time and they've just worked and worked and worked.
Speaker 1:So take, take something from that yeah, and if you are young, you're already a step ahead of the game anyway, because you're already doing it, nice, nice so you did that without.
Speaker 3:You weren't training for a half to do that either. No, no. No, any finishing notes.
Speaker 1:right, let's wrap this up oh no, I I got something to say. No, no, yeah, no, no, because you're gonna like this one, okay, merry christmas, oh yeah. Merry Christmas, oh yeah, that's all you're getting. Merry Christmas, you filthy animals.
Speaker 3:Goodbye, see you in the next year. Thanks for watching.
