Accountability Corner
Embark on an adventure with Darren, Morgan, and Chris, the dynamic trio steering the ship at "Accountability Corner." As passionate OCR enthusiasts, they're on a mission to share their expertise and enthusiasm for obstacle course racing with the world. From sharing insider tips on overcoming training plateaus to demystifying the complexities of race registration and gear selection, no stone is left unturned. Whether you're a seasoned competitor hungry for fresh perspectives or a newcomer eager to dip your toes into the muddy waters of OCR, these hosts are here to guide you every step of the way. Join them as they peel back the curtain on the electrifying world of OCR, revealing stories of triumph, camaraderie, and boundless adventure.
Don't miss out – tune in and discover why OCR is capturing hearts and minds around the globe!
Accountability Corner
#42: Hybrid Athlete Hype and the OCR Underdog
This episode explores the rise of hybrid athletes, discussing what defines a hybrid athlete compared to an obstacle course racer. We delve into the historical context of hybrid training, its accessibility, and the societal perceptions that shape this fitness trend.
• Defining characteristics of hybrid athletes versus OCR athletes
• Historical roots of hybrid training and its evolution
• The role of social media in popularising hybrid training
• Accessibility of hybrid training compared to traditional sports
• Societal perceptions of multi-disciplinary approaches in fitness
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Welcome to the Accountability Corner, where we talk about everything obstacle course racing, From staying disciplined in training, affording the sport, signing up for your first race and, more importantly, how the sport has grown around the world, With your hosts Morgan Maxwell, Chris Shipley and Darren Martin.
Speaker 2:Let's do this. Red buttons on light, whatever you want to call it, camera. First thing we always go to these days, mo, is how is sheffield?
Speaker 3:wow, beautiful sheffield. I have not been here that much, actually because of christmas, so I've actually been in, uh, milton keynes and what? I will tell you my new observation of the the new year. Milton keynes is miserable. Why is your weather so bad? It's like when I was in Milton Keynes, all grey skies. Every time I come back to Sheffield it's blue skies. So there's something going on in the world of Milton Keynes, but it's not very nice.
Speaker 3:Um, because it's got its own microclimate, because it's so flat yeah, and I'm thinking is there like smog or whatever it's called, coming from London and the robots? And the robots are like blocking the pathways.
Speaker 2:Not everyone has the robots. No one knows what we're talking about, but in Milton Keynes robots can deliver your food.
Speaker 1:It's pretty special. Yeah, I was quite impressed by that when I first found out.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean it's cool in the beginning, but every now and then you have to help one get off a curb and it is the most like sad thing in the world, and it's squeaking, isn't it? Yeah, it's like screaming for help and then, but to be fair to it, if you lift up the curb it'll go, thank you and then drive off.
Speaker 1:I bet it remembers all this and then one day, when they really start to like start killing people, they'll remember the ones that helped them out.
Speaker 3:Mo would be spared, yeah, so this is actually a thing in what me and KR do in the flat right. So basically I'm really scared of AI taking over and killing us. So I talk to Siri like she is God, like I'm bowing down to her. I call her all these pet names.
Speaker 1:Like she is she's my baby sacrificing, sacrificing people to siri oh my great and powerful siri. Here's the sacrifice of the day no, but here's the thing.
Speaker 3:So kiara decides that she's gonna do the opposite and she's really horrible to siri. So it's always an ongoing battle in our house of who's going to like mess up Siri or who's going to be nice to Siri, and it's always. Obviously I'm nice to Siri. Do you know what you should do? I'm really scared that they're going to take over and she's dead, like she's going to die.
Speaker 1:You want to. You want to, you want to do it. So you turn off stuff and say I don't know how that's all been turned off and like disable, like a wi-fi and stuff, unplugging her charger. Yeah, it's just like doing little things and then just be like well, you're being horrible to siri and then, when she starts being nice to siri, start turning things back on right, let's get away from uh robot chats because they're listening.
Speaker 2:We don't want to say anything bad about them, and we were. I just want to apologise for the last episode. I think we had a few hiccups, didn't we? A bit of audio hiccups that obviously you was missing. My lovely tone voice Made it so much better. No, it's just you talking, that's what it sounded like.
Speaker 3:Did we get you back in the end Is the one that's up now? I don't know. We just released it, yeah it just went wrong.
Speaker 2:We're consistent, but not right. At least we've got something going for us.
Speaker 3:I feel like with Christmas, you can let us off.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, and we promise episode content is coming back strong and we have so much commitment to this podcast. Shipley, where are you? Where are you coming from right now?
Speaker 1:I'm from the island of grand canary, I'm on hollybobs. He's on holiday and he's still. Podcasting doesn't stop for me.
Speaker 2:No, you're owning, you're owning the podcast. You're the podcast master in obstacle course racing, that's it happy davis eat your heart out.
Speaker 1:Shipley's exactly just thought I'd look cooler, put a hat on now he's got his hat on, yep and ships you.
Speaker 2:Uh, it was quite. You had a nice run around, uh, grand canaria today, you saw us. What did you see?
Speaker 1:you saw graffiti, which was basically oh, it said a really cool saying. I can't remember what it was, but uh, what did it say?
Speaker 2:well I had your had your birth birth year on it.
Speaker 1:It had my birth year on it and it said, it said oh, oh, oh, oh. It said, right between mountains and rocks, much can be appreciated. And then it was like my birthday, 12th of the 21st at 1986. And I thought that was very fitting for where I am.
Speaker 2:Pretty cool. So am I the mountain and Mo's the rock.
Speaker 1:One of you's a rock and one of you's a mountain.
Speaker 2:Yeah, or I'm a mountain and you're the beautiful thing in between.
Speaker 1:That's it. I am the beautiful thing in between, but it's nice. It was just cool. It's a bit, it's a bit out of the world having your birthday, like it's like literally. I saw my birthday and I was like oh, wow, and then I translated what it was and I thought that's pretty fitting. And you know what? I had a really, really good run today, exploring all the history of, like, the indigenous people who live in great well in the canary islands, and that it was. It was really good. What I really love traveling around fast on foot and just seeing stuff like taking it, like not running overly fast, but just taking everything in running where you can, walking, where you need to walk, just moving around fast, and it's just, it's just awesome we don't take.
Speaker 2:We take that such for granted, don't we? Because I went to london for work before christmas and the ability to just go out, trainers on and run around london. Do nine miles, just simple, easy. Just looking at the sites christmas trees it's. It's nice to be, it's nice to do that I can't imagine anything worse than that all right okay well, it's not about nature, it's the ability to be able to go around places, explore things quicker.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we are so lucky available all the time to just go in because you like.
Speaker 2:Nine miles, you can see it quite a lot yeah, london, you did, did nearly that the whole central l London, like going around the outside of it, that's it.
Speaker 1:You're able to stand up. We are the way that we have been evolutionally created over millenniums and millenniums of years probably not that long but to do what we do, just standing on two feet and being able to travel. No other animal on this planet can do that, so we are lucky. Birds can probably travel a bit further. Yeah, but they fly. It's different.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I reckon sharks probably travel more in their life than we do and a whale.
Speaker 1:Alright, but not on two feet. We are no, yeah, two feet.
Speaker 3:I reckon kangaroos will give us a run for our money.
Speaker 1:All right.
Speaker 3:Jeez.
Speaker 2:Right, let's, I'll be talking about availability and fitness. Mo, give us what's your best workout you've had this week.
Speaker 3:Oh, there hasn't really been one Everything Because of New Year's and Christmas. I've been travelling quite a lot so I've been really tight and I've just been keeping quite still getting the mileage in, but it's all been quite an easy. Today's probably the quickest run I did, but it was only half an hour. It was at probably like 6.40 average pace maybe. Yeah, nothing that exciting.
Speaker 2:No, okay. Well, that's still exciting Ships. You had any exciting workouts or you've just been exploring?
Speaker 1:slowly exploring. No workouts lately. No, no workouts. I did have to get down on one knee the other day. That was a bit of a workout.
Speaker 2:Yeah, congratulations. I didn't know if you wanted to mention it on the podcast, so everyone's aware. I thought I'd throw it in there, yeah I've got a question about this.
Speaker 3:Go on to get down. Did you forward lunge or reverse lunge?
Speaker 1:forward lunge. Actually, that's a very good question. I did think about it. So I actually, because I prefer forward lunge, because it's to get him back up, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a good point actually. No, I've never had that. I did a backward lunge.
Speaker 3:This is something I'm really petrified. Like, say, the day comes where I decide to ask her if she's marrying me, I always think, how do I get down?
Speaker 2:It's also what knee do you go on?
Speaker 3:Is there a right way? Is there a wrong way?
Speaker 2:Maybe there is a wrong way. If listeners, let us know. If you know there's superstitions about anything to do with getting married and proposing, let us know. If there's a wrong knee.
Speaker 3:What about a double knee?
Speaker 2:just to be sure double knee what go down on both? Well, we did. We did that. I've never done this workout in my life. What was it called prison? Get up, what the heck? That is the most horrible thing I've ever done, and that's a reverse lunge, see it reverse.
Speaker 2:You've ever done those ships? No, you put your hands on your head. Yeah, yeah, see. So your, your traps are like nice and tight together, and then what you have to do, you have to go down on one knee, go down in the other knee. Then you come up on one leg and then come on that leg, and you keep going back and forth of the.
Speaker 1:I know what you mean yeah, yeah, they're decent, decent, old school.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there you go. Not that that prison get up is related to being posing. There's no one there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because hands above your head. Get down, get up, get down, and you've got to get on your knees, but don't pick up that soap.
Speaker 2:Obviously, everyone's in suspense.
Speaker 1:Was it a yes?
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, it was a yes.
Speaker 1:Of course it was a yes.
Speaker 2:It's off the market. We're going to lose all our listeners now.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Doubt it.
Speaker 1:My OCR stud is off.
Speaker 3:Am.
Speaker 1:I the stud.
Speaker 3:I don't know Well you've got your hat backwards. I feel like that's pretty steady.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're the stud with a hat backwards.
Speaker 2:That is quite steady, right so talking about studs and then, to stop the waffle so we can go straight into it, let's talk about who wants to be the biggest stud in fitness at the minute and what do we call these stud ships? What are these people that want to be absolutely amazing on Instagram? What are they called these days? Hybrids, hybrids, hybrids, mo. What are they called? Hybrids, hybrids?
Speaker 3:Mo, what are they called? Well, their official term is probably hybrid athletes.
Speaker 2:Hybrid athlete.
Speaker 3:But what that is? I have no idea.
Speaker 2:So I think we're going to break it down. I think we should break it down also in comparison to obstacle course racing athlete. What's a hybrid athlete and what is an obstacle course racing athlete? How do you even give yourself that name? It doesn't make sense either, because it's like. Hybrid is the ability to do multiple things Maybe that's, but athlete, what's the definition of an athlete? Let's dive in. Let's get into this.
Speaker 1:Let's jump right in, jump right in, guys. I like that. I like that. There we go.
Speaker 3:So I think we should put a pin in this straight away.
Speaker 2:All right. All of you mark it in terms.
Speaker 3:Put a pin in that.
Speaker 2:Let's circle back around.
Speaker 3:Or I don't even know if that's the right term to use, but basically, put your pin in. I'll put my pin in. A hybrid athlete, I believe, quote-unquote athlete is someone that can just lift and move well, so they can run semi-decent and lift semi-decent, and that's a good. That is a hybrid athlete. Someone that maybe does physique training or like semi-decent and lift semi-decent, and that's a good. That is a hybrid athlete.
Speaker 2:Someone that maybe does physique training or like bodybuilding, sort of weight lifting, any sort of training like that but then also wants to run like your nick bears of the world no, not nick bear, he's he is the ultimate hybrid athlete if we're going like just basic hybrid athlete yeah, but like if ai created an hybrid athlete, you put in all these things, they would create nick bear and hunter mcintyre right.
Speaker 3:So this is where this is where we're going to go, a little bit different okay nick bear is your hybrid athlete. Hunter mcintyre is your hybrid racer. Okay, so someone that does something like high rocks or decker, where it is completely not hybrid, really, because it's so specific that actually it's his own thing. It's hybrid in the way that you lift and run, yes, but again it's more of a skill-based thing okay, all right, I get where you're going.
Speaker 2:Let's break it down a little bit further, though. Let's go back a bit further than that. Like what? What makes you? What makes you a hybrid athlete? Like, if let's keep saying it, obviously because the algorithms at the minute are loving hybrid and high rocks athletes, so let's just keep doing that to get our podcast up there. But what actually? What even is it? Like you just mentioned it, someone who does multiple things, but what are their multiple things and how good do they do their multiple things to be able to call yourself a hybrid athlete or a hybrid racer?
Speaker 3:well, I don't know, because on instagram everyone's a hybrid athlete, so you don't have to do any of them. Very well, by the looks of it, easy well, go on it's cardio and strength yeah, but to what ability?
Speaker 2:is there ability you need to?
Speaker 3:maybe this is what we're saying this is our own opinion, obviously, but maybe to earn the title of athlete, we should set some boundaries first before we go into this conversation yeah, I suppose we just never.
Speaker 2:It's just, it's a key word, it's a trend, that's the off the f.
Speaker 1:The athlete bit is someone who competes against other competitors. That gives, that gives the aspect of athlete, doesn't it, I suppose?
Speaker 2:yeah, I suppose. Then that means, if you go back even further to the basics of it, everyone's hybrid because everyone runs to some mobility and someone goes to the gym. Everyone's doing something hybrid. It's like when compromise running was first mentioned in obstacle course racing, everyone wanted to do compromise run. I'm a compromise runner, but everyone's a compromise runner in some regard. You have to go up and down a curb, exactly. So that's like I don't know if it makes sense for that. Does that make sense that they go back to it? Everyone runs, everyone goes to the gym, so they're a hybrid athlete, but maybe a bodybuilder? Would they be hybrid athlete? Would they be in hybrid?
Speaker 3:I feel like if you're lifting and you're running is both your focuses, then you're potentially a hybrid athlete, if you like. That's why I use Nick Bear as an example His running and his lifting both are focuses on his. If you're a bodybuilder just doing a bit of cardio because you're cutting or whatever that looks like, you're probably not really hybrid. You're not probably doing enough, not even an athlete. Yeah Well, I don't't know, I didn't say that, but yeah, same with. If you're a runner and you just do snc work to stop you getting injured or just create a bit more power output or whatever it is. Whatever your reasonings are, maybe you're not necessarily hybrid because your main focus is the running, yeah. But I think if you're someone that wants to run fast and lift heavy, that's where you get into the realms of hybrid so where do you think this began then?
Speaker 1:what hybrid? Being calling yourself a hybrid athlete or being a hybrid athlete.
Speaker 2:I think it come from ocr has definitely led the way in terms of like different sports. No, do you not think before that, before that, before ocr, way before? Okay, well, I feel like you've got an answer to this, so you carry on.
Speaker 1:Gladiators Came from Gladiators, not the TV show.
Speaker 2:Well, actually to be fair, To be fair.
Speaker 1:Gladiators, the original hybrid athlete Throwing bears, lifting heavy stuff, chucking chariots, moving shields, running around.
Speaker 2:They were hybrid, yeah, yeah. And also not many people know this that because because everything's depicted in like a slavery point of view, but most gladiators were actually volunteers and athletes. They were indeed. Yeah, they actually volunteered to go in there to the death.
Speaker 1:It was quite a hierarchy symbol. Hierarchy symbol, that's not right, is it Hierarchal status?
Speaker 2:Yeah, there you go To be a gladiator. Yeah, and there were still gladiators around in the first Olympics and they used to send their champion gladiators to the Olympics. They did yeah, so you think that's where hybrid comes from. That's, that's. That's, that's too far back come well, there you go.
Speaker 1:It's true, all these people saying it's new, it's been around for quite a while. Nick bear fighting the bear yeah, see, I do.
Speaker 3:Actually I think that I think we'll come back to high rocks later, but I think there was this knock on effect with OCR, especially in America, obstacle course racing getting bigger, so more people were looking at endurance training and being strong. Also CrossFit. Crossfit, you had people looking at endurance training sort of and getting strong. And then you had people like Nick bear early on, because he was one of the first really early on to really try and come do running and lifting and be a big runner. That really made it mainstream and so I think you had this kind of knock-on effect where you had crossfit growing, ocr growing and channels like Nick Bear growing, and then it was kind of eventually that got turned into High Rocks and hybrid racing.
Speaker 2:But I think it it all started with them three things and people liking them three things do you do you think everyone trying to be because I see it loads on social media everyone trying to be a hybrid athlete or saying that they're they train hybrid. Do you think this is a good thing? Do you think this is people breaking the mold of stereotypes, of that? You have to focus on one thing and you can focus on everything just to be physically available no I think it's oh, go on though well, I think.
Speaker 3:I think people were looking for something that was accessible. Crossfit wasn't quite accessible. Obstacle racing was muddy wasn't quite accessible. Um bodybuilding as well, especially for, I'd say, even females you see a lot of females in the hybrid space or the running slash lifting space but also because being in the gyms can be quite intimidating. So going out for a run and mixing your training up and doing more functional style training um was again more accessible. So I think it's it's just people looking for things that actually a little bit, and people like variety as well. You get bored easily. That's what we've always said about OCR, is that we don't get bored because we always do different stuff. Well, if you're training quote-unquote hybrid, you're doing something different all the time well, yeah, and don't forget, this is like the new fitness craze yeah, this is the trend, but it's almost like how the trend started.
Speaker 2:I'm trying to go back to like what's the social environment that everyone was getting themselves into and thinking they want to train like, to now get to this craze of being I'm a hybrid athlete.
Speaker 3:I think COVID was one of the biggest catalysts as well, because you had everyone taking up running because it's the only thing they could do, and doing home workouts. I think the home workout yeah.
Speaker 2:It's not running Like when I I remember there used to be. There still is going about now like boot camps Everyone we used to go to at the weekend or the mornings. There's one in Milton Keynes. It's been going on since like forever called caveman conditioning. You might even know it, mo it. It was done in like a park and it was just such easily accessible thing that you got told to lift these weights, run this amount for 45 minutes and then go home yeah, no, that's been going around for eons, yeah, and now it's functional fitness at a race.
Speaker 1:That's, that's all it is, but it's just been simplified and into a certain, a certain thing. And then you've just got the two, two big brands that have taken over their functional fitness race, yeah, and. And then you still got other people trying to tag on, do their own functional fitness races, like like we had in ocr, when you had the big, the big players playing their game and then the smaller ones just trying to recreate that fire yeah, it's become really popular to game, gamify it in a way like at at work.
Speaker 2:You might say that you want to produce some gamification to something like get people get that dopamine levels. It's kind of like going onto instagram people get addictive because they feel like they're getting something out of it and they constantly are, so they constantly come back. That's that's a form of behavioral change in marketing and it's the same thing why people have changed the like, the caveman conditioning, the boot camps, into this game that people can keep coming back to to get a better score at and I also think it offers now because most gyms have seen the popularity, so they've got the equipment.
Speaker 3:Like, let's just take high cross, for example, they've got the equipment for that. So then it's almost catapulted even more because people then can do it in the gym, so they don't have to go and pay for all these boot camps and specific classes when they can just go to the gym. And most gyms now actually have a ski, a sled, um warble targets getting more popular as well, so they have the kit.
Speaker 1:So you don't even need to pay these really expensive memberships now yeah, it's just people just making it so, like trainers, and that giving someone an incentive, all right. So there's this big chance, like like for when marathons were there, like run clubs got really big because people wanted to like learn how to do a marathon and do a marathon parkrun. So, yeah, all the all the same, people wanted to join and do these things. So the coaches and gyms and that they they tag on to whatever's being really really in the limelight and they offer opportunities to get better at it because it brings business to them the thing is as well this has been going on like if you look at how rumble started.
Speaker 3:So we talk about rumble a lot, obviously an obstacle course racing center now, but it started as um, I guess you could call them hybrid events or functional style events, where it's multiple different disciplines and it was never ocr, it was always rumble. In the origins of rumble was events and it was fitness events and fitness classes. That's why people don't realize. But the fitness side of rumble is really, is really big because it's that's where it started. But this was you're talking years and years ago, before high rocks even a thing. But high rocks managed to gamify it and probably did the best job, marketing wise, for it to become this big phenomenon.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's like yo-yos. Do you remember when?
Speaker 3:yo-yos were really big. I think I was in the womb.
Speaker 2:It went up and down a bit though, didn't it yeah?
Speaker 1:Nice. I love it when I say it out that way, but that's the same thing. It's trends.
Speaker 2:Tamagotchis, yo-yos Furbies. We're comparing hybrid's trends. Tamagotchis, yo-yos Furbies. We're comparing hybrid athletes to Tamagotchis. I'm just saying it's a trend, keep them alive, give them some, give them some. You know an affiliate program or a code to share that keeps them alive for a bit. That's it. Yeah, should we do? You think we should? Um, go into, like, let's try and define it a little bit further in comparison to obstacle course racing. So when you're talking about hybrid, obviously everyone's gone into it as a trend.
Speaker 2:But obviously ocr at one stage was very much a trend but the accessibility of it outweighed the sustainability of it.
Speaker 2:Like people just weren't going to carry on doing it because they just got muddy and cold and it was just a good challenge and then that was done. But the thing with Hierox and a hybrid training is that you can keep doing it inside the gym and so it's more accessible. So people have been holding themselves more accountable to it because they can actually accessibly train towards it. And that's what's kept people into hybrid racing at the minute and why it's boomed so much. And let's not forget, they're two very difficult levels of training to do by yourself and to be able to go to do a functional fitness training session with someone shouting at you, telling you what to do, and then you call yourself a hybrid racer. That's quite easy compared to trying to find an obstacle gym, not knowing what to do, because it takes you quite a long time to actually figure out how to put the session together in the first place yeah, plus all the skills you got to do to be an obstacle racer, there's quite a lot of agility and body movement.
Speaker 1:That's a little bit more than the high rocks movement that you have to do in a high rocks race because they're quite fundamentally easier compared to some of the moves you have to do as an obstacle racer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're more accessible movements, aren't they? They're everything you've probably seen in a gym. They're more accessible movements, aren't they? They're everything you've probably seen in a gym. If you go to try to put together your own OCR training session, it's quite difficult to think okay, what does that relate to? What does the ski erg relate to? What does the row relate to? Because I want to be an obstacle course racer, but then you find yourself you train that way and then you're going to race, go towards high rocks.
Speaker 1:When we was at Euros, I remember when we were standing in the line waiting for our pizzas or whatever, there was a couple behind us and they was talking to another couple and they were discussing about doing a high rocks and one of the things that they said that they liked about high rocks opposed to OCR was that they got injured. Less is that they they were, they were older athletes, there was in the, the higher age group categories, and then they were just saying, oh yeah, we get injured so much less because there is there's less tweaking. You know, there's obviously injury still available, but the difference of movement falling off something, possibly breaking a wrist or finger or something was greatly reduced yeah, it's also because cross training is such a big thing as well, like with OCR.
Speaker 3:To really want to take it seriously, you need to be running a lot. And don't get me wrong, for higher ups you also need to be running a lot, but you can build your engine other ways, so if you get injured, there is always something that you can carry on doing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can max out the the ergs, can't you?
Speaker 3:yeah, whereas if you get injured in those like from ocr and you can't run, obviously you still can use the ergs and stuff, but it doesn't feel like you're making much progress towards your chosen sport. Whereas if you can't run in high rocks, you can still go on, well, possibly still go on the ski, and you still feel like, oh, but at least I'm improving my station work, whereas ocr you don't. You can improve your obstacles maybe, yeah, but again the accessibility of obstacle centers isn't really there. So once you can't run, it's kind of like, well, what else?
Speaker 2:yeah, well, just just saying like I went down to rumble yesterday. Obviously I told you it wasn't on but, having the ability and the years of experience in obstacle course racing, I was able to still put a session on in my head quite quickly like you know what compromises you, you know what, how to get in and out or what you need to get in and out of, which is like burpees to run in to pull-ups. You can do that quite quickly with a lot of experience. But if someone new to the sport that happened to them, they'd probably go home because they just don't know how to put together a session for OCR. But if I went to the gym and the functional fitness session wasn't on, I'd still know how to put together some sort of like hybrid challenge for myself on the machines.
Speaker 1:Yeah, ten minutes on the erg, exactly Run. Yeah, ten minutes on an erg.
Speaker 2:Yeah, farmer's walk so it is more accessible, and that's guess what. That's why it has grown so much and everyone can have a go at it with, without making too many major life changes to their training, and everyone just likes feeling a bit fucked.
Speaker 3:That's the other thing being obviously I'm a pt in a gym and taking classes and stuff and most people come to classes especially because they just want to feel a bit fucked at the end and work in a group. They don't want to do the boring stuff, like a lot of people don't like lifting weights because they don't feel like they're gaining much out of it. Because if you're lifting properly, it is intense, but it's intense for just short periods and you get big breaks and you get to breathe and you don't really I mean, if you've done it properly, you walk out the gym feeling a bit j-legged and feel like you've had a bit of a workout, but you won't feel how you feel when your lungs are burning and when it feels like, oh, you can't physically move anymore and that you've really worked to this top level.
Speaker 2:People love that and to work hard in OCR. To feel that way, you need to learn some skill sets first yeah, you can't.
Speaker 3:And again, it's hard to really create an obstacle race unless you have one, a facility. But then also you are a little bit crazy and you're willing to go a bit mad on the facility and jump over things really aggressively and, and then again, going back to what we said earlier, kind of injury risk shoots through the roof because you're jumping and moving and taking risks just to get that feeling I do.
Speaker 2:You know, I was thinking about it when I did my session yesterday. I didn't do any of that. I didn't do any jumping. I did press-ups, burpees, squats and pull-ups and then did six and 800 meter run. Then did that thing, that, did that 10 times. That's really simple, compromised workout that anyone can do. And you, you did that at Rumble.
Speaker 1:Yeah, could you not go in the barn bit, not the barn bit the proving ground.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I did, yeah, I did do that, but it was dark, yeah, so I did pull up. You could have done that at home, I know, but I'm just saying that was there at Rumble because I accidentally went there and it was closed'm just saying that was there there at rumble, and because I accidentally went there and it's closed. So if I was there, I might as well do it, because you have to drive there, don't you?
Speaker 2:but, my point? My point is that that that is the most simplistic probably ocr workout you can do, but that also works for hybrid or yeah you might consider that a hybrid workout.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I also don't think that trap that translates somewhat to ocr and that will get you half the way there, but that's not bulletproofing you for a long ocr race get you, um, get that sting of compromised nature from the running and also from the heart rate point of view.
Speaker 2:It lowers, it do some muscular endurance into cardiovascular endurance and then keep switching and it does some blood shunting from arms to legs. Quite well.
Speaker 3:So that is hybrid, that is hybrid. That's also what they do in high rocks and decker.
Speaker 1:I think then, with obstacle racing racing, what you're trying to do is you're trying to get to the point where you're less compromised through the obstacles, as opposed to a hybrid where you're doing more of a you. You need to be compromised more and more to get better, I suppose, because obstacles you want to be able to flow through everything, less compromised, to get you better out your run yeah, you're right.
Speaker 2:So the other? The main thing here is that why don't we see like the same athletes on ocr and hybrid?
Speaker 3:if there, if there's similarities, there is similarities like similarities yeah, uh, I I think, though, that, well, you get the odd outliers like Ryland and there is a couple in there Chris Rogalski, there's a lot that have come from OCR backgrounds as well Hunter McIntyre, ryan Kent, rich Ryan there's quite a few that have come from OCR, but I also think there are different beasts. In terms of high rocks, especially if we're just talking high rocks and even Decker, they're just quicker, it's not grindy. It's grindy in its own little way, but it's not like you're on the trails. You're running at 6.30, 6, even maybe a bit slower in OCRs at times. It's a like you're on the trails, you're running at 6.30, 6.00, even maybe a bit slower in OCRs at times. It's a lot quicker, it's a lot more intense. It's just, I think, harder in terms of, like, actual redlining capacity.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I meant more probably the other way then, is that why don't you see many hybrid athletes performing well or trying to perform well in OCR? Do you not think they know about it or they know how?
Speaker 1:Yeah, they know about it, but it's not trendy at the moment. I'd also disagree because Lauren Weeks?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was just about to say you put her in an obstacle course, she smashes it. We had Viola OCR Games. She won, like it's just because the sponsors aren't there and the money's not there and probably the joy to do it's not there.
Speaker 2:Just the mindset and the training focus is the most similar thing ever.
Speaker 1:Well, look at all the CrossFit athletes now turning to doing high rocks. Yeah, I saw them do that the other day, but they did because it's yeah, it's because it's becoming more. It's like, well, there's more money in this than there is in crossfit now, yeah, so where are they going to be there? They're, they're the same athlete really. They're just doing something that they need to. You know, you need the recognition and you need to do something where you're going to get the accolades of being a professional athlete and you're going to go where the money is, yeah, and it's easy to switch. It's easy to switch when you're already training the same stuff.
Speaker 3:And I also think because of that they're drawing in athletes. Oh, there is still this it's getting. Ocr is definitely getting more specific than it's ever been, but it's still very kind of almost like hippie-fied in a way that we're all these free trail runners that just want to run around the trails and climb a little bit and that is OCR, that is. We're all a bit oddballs that just like to kind of smash ourselves on trails Working with Viola after OCR Games, just drilling for obstacles and stuff.
Speaker 3:She was kind of smash ourselves on trails working with Viola after OCR games, just drilling for obstacles and stuff. She was kind of the most professional person I've ever had to coach, like she was. Just she was picking up things really quickly. She was trying, trying again. She wouldn't give up. She was just like obsessing then about different moves in different angles and, like I say, that is starting to get more in OCR. But I think we're also still very of the mindset of just go out and we love trail running, we love kind of going out for long periods of time.
Speaker 1:I think sometimes it's not showcased as much is it? The real nuts and bolts of OCR racing that used to be and that is, aren't showcased enough Now. Sometimes it's just a bit more. It's a bit. What's a good word? It's like a flat banana, isn't it? Squash banana? It's not, as it's just hasn't got. It doesn't have that same sort of thing anymore, does it?
Speaker 2:That's exactly what I was going to go down that route is that the biggest indicator of trend and popularity is the amount of day in my life as a hybrid athlete. I see on YouTube there's no glorification of OCR anymore, is there? There's no day in the life of an OCR athlete no day in the life of an OCR athlete. And people might be shocked that we actually probably do similar or even more training than a day in the life of a hybrid athlete. We just don't wear as fancy as socks. We might wear some tube socks from Amazon, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's differently and again, I think I mean you see it a little bit on the Spartan scene, but even like with High Rocks, there's a lot of accessories, there's a lot of fashion elements, there's a lot of like even wearing your MyZone. I mean that did blend its sale thing to OCR and MyZone's great, don't get me wrong. But like it becomes a bit if you see someone with a MyZone in the gym, you almost sort of think, oh, they're probably doing some sort of hybrid or there's different things that people buy into and people can consume and buy. And I think that also helps it In OCR. What can you really buy? A pair of trail shoes.
Speaker 2:There isn't anything that defines us anymore.
Speaker 3:No.
Speaker 2:If you used to know yeah, I don't know what you would think of an OCR athlete.
Speaker 1:Yeah, nowadays it's being more pushed towards a 100 metres athlete, basically a fast ninja warrior, and we're kind of getting left in the dust a little bit. Well, that's how I feel.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we need to do a day in the life. We need to do more training videos, because we train bloody hard.
Speaker 3:The other thing is, though, we've never had that boom. You talk about YouTube and all these day in the life of a hybrid athlete and all these hybrid athletes making channels and stuff. How many OCR YouTubers were there?
Speaker 1:No, no, because it was still baby time, wasn't it?
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I guess social media wasn't. We talk about the glory days of OCR, but I guess there was a period where it was booming and I don't think social media was necessarily as big as it is now. I think it's more of a driving force now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because we had documentaries that came out on Amazon. We had races on Channel 4. Who the hell watches Channel 4 now? Do you know what I mean? Yeah, that's the. The times when it was big was when it was being broadcast on television having um men's, men's health survival races broadcast on television. That's when it was big because people were watching television. Now everyone's watching the internet, or what they call it instagram and tiktok, so does it do you no, you, you had a question.
Speaker 2:Go on, you do, you do.
Speaker 3:I was gonna say do you think ocr can learn a lot from hyrox in terms of marketing and even just how to create some form of buzz? Is there a pattern there that we can kind of look at and be like oh, maybe as a sport we can try and develop that way?
Speaker 2:hasn't it? Hasn't it been the other way around? And then high rocks learned from, like the spartan days of marketing. They created huge buzzes on mbc and and created athlete profiles, documentaries on the athletes, yeah I think it it needs to go with whatever's at the top.
Speaker 1:Like things are always constantly changing, aren't they? Yeah, media is constantly changing. You've got to keep up with things. You can't, you can't, just keep having the same. You can't think that things have got to be the same.
Speaker 2:You've got to keep moving with the times yeah, you can't and also it's probably keeping ourselves accountable. I think you can't just have. If you need, want something to grow, you can't and also it's probably keeping ourselves accountable, I think you can't just have. If you want something to grow, you can't just have a podcast anymore. You've got to have something on the back of it. The podcast is like the side dish to a main course, like what's the main course? The YouTube channel, the Instagram posts the day in the life, the, this is how I train. Oh, come with me as I do a WOD or an OCR workout. That kind of thing is the main dinner.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's got to be like a Chinese dinner where you've got loads of different portions of different things. You can't just have your Sunday roast, you start a main course and dessert. It's got to be I want me chicken noodles, me spare ribs, me chicken chow mein bowl things.
Speaker 2:They got it, the listeners got it, they got it.
Speaker 3:Does this mean I need to bring back Morgan Maxwell's YouTube channel? We?
Speaker 1:keep saying that. We keep saying it though.
Speaker 3:Is this the year 2025? Is this the year that Morgan Maxwell stops being lazy and gets back on his YouTube channel?
Speaker 2:I was going to ask you a question Do you think if you put us three in a room, we're three hybrid races who would win a certain sport? We've done that kind of thing, but I actually think that's irrelevant. It doesn't matter who wins anymore. It doesn't matter actually how good you are as a sportsman. It just means how good you are at promoting yourself. That's what matters now do you think?
Speaker 3:well, they're. They're who get the brand deals. Now it's not uc olympic athletes missing out on brand deals, especially in the running, like you know how running is so big at the minute and everyone is a runner. Some of the people I see, and fair play, they're doing well that. They're making content. They, they know how to push themselves, but they're doing well. They're making content. They know how to push themselves, but they're doing like 30 minute 5k's. And then you've got guys that are elite level, trying to make it to the Olympics, that can't even get a sponsor.
Speaker 3:It literally comes down just to marketing.
Speaker 2:I'm going to say right here and I'm doing this as a bit of a shout out for Mo, and they're probably not listening to this anyway but this, the biggest, the best example of this is that Spartan obviously have a pro team and the UK, uk, races. Mo, you're one of the best races in the UK. You've. You've done so well at every championship race that we've had and it's what it's. This. It's 2025 already in spartan still haven't reached out to have you a part of their team, and that's because you just crap at promoting yourself. That's, then, probably the one of the main reasons is that you're not on youtube, you're not on instagram, you're not talking about how fast you've been running recently and you're not showing me what you're training and doing, and and you're not reaching out to the community, so they're not bothered.
Speaker 2:But at the same time yeah, and ginger as well, but at the same time, you, you might rock up to the season this year, which you should do, and and perform amazingly at it. So, yeah, it's that. That is. That is the world when it comes to fitness and athletes at the minute.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm a prime example of maybe that, but also I shoot myself. I don't. My biggest kind of probably enemy, if you like, with this sort of stuff is I hate just releasing content. I find it so cringe. So it's getting over that hard hurdle as well as being like this. I just find it so cringe.
Speaker 2:We're going to be cringe.
Speaker 3:I almost make myself cringe. It is cringy, though. Anytime I try to do it, it's like this doesn't feel like me at all. I find I'm quite a creative person and I'd rather make things that are quite creative, but they just take so much time, and that's the other thing.
Speaker 2:Ships, you did an apology video about our rubbish edit of our last episode.
Speaker 1:Go on ask me how many times I did it.
Speaker 2:How many times did you do?
Speaker 1:that I must have did it about 30 times.
Speaker 2:Honestly, it took forever. We've got to be unapologetically ourselves and just post that out there to the world, because we do it on this podcast and everyone knows us in the real world that we mess up words, we sometimes say the wrong thing, we swear we're stupid, but ultimately we've got a heart of gold that we just want to help people in the sport and we want to be the best version of ourselves. Let's just, let's just be that. I think we should. We're going to have a good talking to ourselves after this one and tell people that we need to be a bit more open and share a bit more 2025, new year.
Speaker 2:New me.
Speaker 3:New me, new hybrid me. I'm still not going to post cringy content every day and force myself to make stuff, but there'll be more content. I'm getting motivation from this talk.
Speaker 2:Good Right, I want to talk quickly about what is considered a hybrid racer. Like, how do you, how do you get into the criteria of a hybrid racer or hybrid athlete? Like, if we're talking like last episode, we talked about being elite racers, like what is elite in OCR? So what is the word that you use for hybrid? Is it hybrid? It's not hybrid athlete. Everyone's a hybrid athlete. Is it hybrid racer?
Speaker 3:I think you just split it into where you split it into pro and age, similar to how you'd split our sport. You've got your open, you've got your age and you've got your pro. They're very different. They look very different. Everyone can be a hybrid racer. Everyone can be a hybrid racer. Everyone can be a Spartan racer. It's the same, but there's just levels.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's exactly the same Open right. I'm going to complete Okay Age group. I'm going to compete against peers in my age group in a similar group Pro.
Speaker 2:I'm going against the best in the world. Right, let's go. Let's go. Best in the world. I asked the chat GBT to help me with this one because one thing with AI, at the minute it gives you lots of good answers, but it's the average answer, so it's not the best, it's not the worst, it's not the best, it's not the worst, it's in the middle and I think that's a good comparison to us to help to help answer this, answer this question. So I asked it like what is the pinnacle hybrid athlete? What, what even is it? And it gave. And I asked for a pen portrait, and a pen portrait trait is basically a written description of a person. So, like a male pen portrait of a hybrid athlete, it gave me are you ready for these numbers?
Speaker 1:this is actually more interesting than I gave you credit for earlier okay I didn't realize that. That's how I I dictated it, so I'm I'm more involved now, okay so right.
Speaker 2:So I I did a lot of questions about like define and define a hybrid athlete. What does it actually mean? It's a person that excels in both cardiovascular and strength-based activities, and then I asked it to it to describe excel. What does excel mean? And excel, and I said define, excel in each one of them categories. So if a hybrid male athlete needs to excel in strength, it is saying they should be able to one rep max squat 159 kg I can do that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, no, can I.
Speaker 2:No, I might not be able to okay. And then there was then bench press. It said that it needs to be one rep, max 84 to 111 kg, kind of achievable 84,.
Speaker 1:I think. I reckon I might be able to squeeze out an 80.
Speaker 3:I am pretty much on the lower end, so just squatting you've got 125 to 159.
Speaker 2:Wait there, I asked it to describe the pen portrait for an elite obstacle course racer as well. Okay, so deadlift. You should be able to deadlift 184 kg. Is this still hybrid? This is hybrid.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:Pull-ups, strict pull-ups. 15 to 20 strict pull-ups Okay, yeah, okay, right, let's go on to the endurance part, the main part that everyone gets excited about. So we're talking a perfect male hybrid athlete endure 5k in 17 to 19 minutes, 10k to 35 to 40 minutes. So it's given a bit more leeway on the 10k. And then it gave me a 200 2000 meter row. It didn't go any further than 10k, so a 2000 meter row in sub seven minutes. That's pulling. It's working, yeah, and even even broke it down into like what agility they would need grip strength, core stability. So holding a five minute plank, uh, grip strength, can you carry 200 pound farmer carries for 100 meters without dropping them?
Speaker 2:and then it gave him personality traits wow, yeah, yeah, hang on, I can't see roid head anywhere it said, personality traits must be able to sign up to a high rocks ballot. Um performs under intense physical mental stress, excelling in challenging conditions. Um smoothly transitions between two fitness disciplines, from heavy lifting to high intensity, endurance, and has competitiveness. That's fair. Yeah, fair enough, should I? Let's do. That was a perfect male hybrid, so where does?
Speaker 3:because I'm looking at this and apart from what do you? Think, because I can't be asked for that and maybe this, I can squat 125.
Speaker 2:So, mo, let's do you for this one and then we'll do Shipley for the I'm perfect according to this so are you a perfect male. Hybrid athlete.
Speaker 1:I think so. He's not six foot, though. Oh yeah, oh yeah, I'm too, small.
Speaker 2:And what about your weight? It didn't give me weight. He's too heavy.
Speaker 3:No, I can get to 82 if you want me to. If that's what's required of me, I'll get there, okay.
Speaker 2:I need to get my body fat down there. Gave me body fat percentage of 10 to 14% A bit stereotypical, but we'll leave the body fat there so you can squat 125 kg yeah. Yeah, I reckon Bench press 84 kg. That is a push.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I can get 84.
Speaker 2:That is a push. What rep max I? Don't know, I reckon about 90 at the minute.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I can get the 184.
Speaker 2:Strict 15 to 20 pull-ups. Yeah, light work. Yeah, we know you can do a 5k under 17 yeah definitely no, you can do in 10k quicker than 35.
Speaker 3:5 2000 meters, so I'm actually better than what they're asking me to be is that what you're saying?
Speaker 1:yeah, but this is an average. This, this is an average of everything.
Speaker 2:I'm above average, so you're the average perfect. That's a bit of an octomoron.
Speaker 3:I haven't done a 2,000 metre row so I don't know if that'll be on the sub-7. Can you do a?
Speaker 2:2,000 metre row and then put that content on our channel. See Building content, the sub.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I couldn't. The only thing I can't do on here, I'm not holding a five minute plank. Nobody's got time for that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's easy.
Speaker 3:No, that's just so long.
Speaker 2:Ships. That's your content challenge Five minute plank.
Speaker 3:You just said it's easy. Now Pause it.
Speaker 2:I can edit that video for you All right, okay, so yeah, I Okay, so yeah, I reckon you're there, darren, you've got to be there as well, haven't you? Squat, bench, deadlift, put-ups? Yeah, top, I'm probably top end of them times. I wouldn't say I'm bottom end, like you, like 10K.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but your bench is better and your maybe not your deadlift your. What's your squat like you're a good squatter aren't you?
Speaker 2:I don't know, not sure, but let's, let's um. Compare ships to the perfect male obstacle course racer. Right insert name Christopher Shipley Age how old are you now? 38.
Speaker 1:Height Six foot yeah, yeah, six foot on the dot.
Speaker 2:It's saying the weight is the same 82 to 86 kg.
Speaker 1:No way, I would have said that would be lighter. Yeah, I'd also say the height would be lighter.
Speaker 2:I think you want to be more, by like five, nine, okay, so everyone listening out there that wants to be the perfect obstacle course racer, as male, perfect obstacle course racer squat, low end 102 kg. Easy achievable bench press 61 kg. Easy deadlift 125 kg, if my back doesn't go out easy pull-ups, 15 to 20. Oh, actually, this one says weighted with 23 kilograms. What?
Speaker 1:15 with 23 kilograms.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's quite a lot, you know what I can't do that, darren.
Speaker 3:That's your bit of content we want from you. I want to see you try that.
Speaker 1:Okay, all right I'll try that with 23 kilograms. Yes, not easy.
Speaker 2:Okay, I'd say that's near one impossible 15 23 kilograms, strict pull-ups incoming on instagram and the banded banded. Yeah, you won't see the band. Uh, we're actually the same on endurance, so it thinks that a hybrid athlete and an ocr athlete needs to have the same endurance I think then it's uh, I'd actually say probably both need to be quicker what you reckon to be the perfect, you need to be sub if we're talking elite 15 to 17 minute 5k run.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I'd say that's for both as well because the hybrid like the high rocks guys. They're quicker than a lot of the ocr guys but they're top level yeah, yeah we're talking elite versus elite. I think maybe our elite actually are quicker runners. Just out and out, yeah, but I think I did like the.
Speaker 2:It changed the personality traits of an ocr racer. It changed it to have adaptability as a personality trait and I kind of like that because it says it's capable of transitioning seamlessly between strength-based tasks like heavy carries and endurance challenges that's quite nice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree with that. Yeah, well done ai yeah.
Speaker 2:So let's go to the perfect female, um, not obstacle course racer.
Speaker 3:Let's go, perfect female, it is in here we should probably put out some form of kind of I don't know what the word is, but like uh, basically, even if you don't hit these numbers, don't now reach for these numbers yeah, this is just ai a load of people now trying to reach oh, I need to get this yeah, this, yeah, this isn't coaching numbers. This is numbers yeah. Or we'll get loads of comments. You don't need to do any of this. We'll get loads of comments saying this isn't right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you don't need to. Obviously, this is an average and because, let's be real, gregory Basilico isn't hitting half of them numbers and he's also not 83kg and he's what, one of the best OCR athletes we have at the minute well Spartan athletes I don't know, he managed to do Stein in Dubai and that was obstacle racing. But yeah, I still agree, stein and Jesse and well, a lot of the European guys are probably slightly better, but he is one of the best.
Speaker 2:I want our female listeners to critique this for us, please. Perfect female hybrid athlete they must be 5'7", that's quite tall. 64 to 68 kg it's a very specific weight. 16 to 20% body fat. Squat is 84 to 68 kg. It's very specific weight. 16 to 20% body fat. Squat is 84 to 102 kg. That's a good squat. Bench press 43 to 61 kg. Deadlift 102 to 125 kg. Pull-ups 8 to 12 strict pull-ups and this says it's weighted with 11 kg. 8-12 strict pull-ups and this says it's weighted with 11kg. God yeah, whoever's got a pull-up out there. Can you do 8-12 strict pull-ups please?
Speaker 2:with 11kg with 11kg 5k run 20-23 minutes, a 10k run 40-45 minutes and a 2000m row in sub 45 minutes and a 2,000-meter row in sub-eight minutes, that's a good row yeah.
Speaker 1:Raph would be good at that, raph's not far off.
Speaker 2:all of them. There you go. Get her doing hybrid Right. Let's go to OCR. The perfect female obstacle course racer Is there actually any changes here no, it doesn't look like it's changed at all. No, so we've, we've, we've, uh found a fault with uh.
Speaker 1:But then when you say like now, now, all you got to do is look at the top females in both sports are basically the same I think it's easier almost just because of the depth of field, more than anything.
Speaker 3:but I think it's easier for the women hybrid guys to do like OCR and vice versa. I reckon it's slightly easier for some of the women to come from OCR to high, I think, but again, purely more just because of the depth of field, not necessarily skill set. Look at Ida she's managed to transition to both quite well. We've had Lauren Weeks transition both quite well. Viola, like we said, transition so I think yeah, andrea's done really well.
Speaker 1:You've had. Who's the other UK athlete? I forget her name now.
Speaker 3:I can imagine the top end though, so like if you you took, say, the women's top end, let's say that's Lindsay and Nicole, maybe Alyssa Petrova as well, I don't know how they'd. I think they'd do all right, but I don't think they'd do like Ida, for example.
Speaker 2:I was going to. I'm going to ask this question for you. I actually got it. I asked this question what would happen if, using all the data that it knows now, what would happen if they switch sports? These athletes switch sports. So it said that the obstacle course athlete, if they were to switch to hybrid racing, would likely struggle with weightlifting and complex gym movements as their training is obstacle specific, which kind of agree based on AI just knowing what obstacle course racing involves but doesn't know necessarily what obstacle training involves. Like when we train, we do use quite a lot of weightlifting techniques, but probably not to the strength levels that a hybrid racer would do.
Speaker 3:And I don't think all of our top end field do that as well. I think there's a big, especially recently. I think there's a big shift into the running and endurance.
Speaker 1:Well, john Albom's app basically says that you will get as much running as possible, but with as little strength needed to compete in a obstacle race, and that's what he promotes to get good at obstacle racing, as little strength as needed, that's the total opposite to what I believe in when it comes to obstacle course racing.
Speaker 3:No, I agree. I think you need to walk the line. I think you need to be as quick as you physically can and just get by Just about yeah. Yeah, I think there's a real good line of if you could just be on that line, because the strong guys never win nah like we just talked about gregory like one of the best probably just runners we've ever seen in this sport. What's he doing? Winning?
Speaker 1:yeah, did you see him in the double?
Speaker 3:sandbag carrier spot yeah, and he came off the rig yeah so it just shows you, don't you do as little to get by, he got by and still won, maybe in a shorter course where maybe a 3K obstacle dense might see some change.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you might need a little bit more, but Not much more, though that's yet to be decided.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Again, Stein, I wouldn't say he's probably the strongest in the field.
Speaker 2:No, but he'll win. Do you want to know what it said on the hybrid athlete to obstacle course racer? That a hybrid athlete is likely to perform better as their broad endurance, strength and agility help them adapt quickly to obstacle navigation and physical tasks. It said navigation and physical tasks, but that's on the basis that they understand how to actually navigate those obstacles. So I do agree to some regard.
Speaker 2:I think if I had, like you just said, mo with Viola, if you had a day with her to help her understand the skills needed to navigate the obstacles, she already has the strength and the athleticism to do them. So I think what we're trying to say here is that we want more people in obstacle course racing. We've said that from the outset of this podcast when we started it. So we welcome anyone with a hybrid back background that wants to try something different to come over to obstacle course racing. I think there's the ability to do it definitely, and maybe I've always wanted to do some more hybrid races. It's that's the reason. That's actually why I disagreed with you then. So because I because I do love the weight lifting and the strength element of ocr, but no offense, darren, we're not the people.
Speaker 3:we love that, but we're not the people winning. I do love the weightlifting and the strength element of OCR, but no offence, darren, we love that but we're not the people winning. Yeah, yeah. We can take bias in the fact that we do like the gym. All three of us, I even think Ships, you do enjoy lifting weights.
Speaker 1:Dude, I'm a scaffolder, I'm lifting more than you guys are lifting all day of the week.
Speaker 3:That's what I mean. We come from gym backgrounds, we do enjoy the gym, but again, we're not winning the races. I also think what do you think in the UK if you took the best I'm talking just about the UK OCR scene, obviously, we know it quite well. I think if you took some of the best hybrid guys, they would slot right in and do very well, very quickly, without much obstacle training, just because, again, debt fulfilled and the deepness teach, teach some of the the not even the elite 15, but like just top age group races in high rocks.
Speaker 2:Teach them how to do a couple monkey bars and I think I'll be scared of them a bit. To be honest, they're absolute machines.
Speaker 3:Well, they're fast. That's the thing with people don't realize about some of the. Again, we've talked a lot more just high rocks athletes not necessarily hybrid athletes, If you want to split the two, but they're fast. Some of these high rocks guys are fast. Yeah, big and fast. You're looking at people that are heavy and still doing 16, sub-16, 5Ks.
Speaker 1:Yeah, which is not easy.
Speaker 2:That's why I want to do the opposite. I think this year Mo, I know we hijacked this a bit and you wanted to talk about planning 2025 in season I actually don't want to be scared of the two like, yes, I want to concentrate on obstacle course racing as a focus, but I do want to jump in to see, see where, see where my fitness lands give it, give it a go. It doesn't. I'm not talking high rocks, because can't even get a ticket, but there's loads of great races out there. There's deca races in gyms, there's. There's loads of. There's even just doing a thing at rumble, like rumble does them all the time like a simulation. Just jump in, see how we perform. But I do think that we would. Yeah, like we've said in this, this episode today, we would struggle on the, the heavy weightlifting elements of of hybrid, but I think that's the main thing we would struggle on, and a hybrid racer would struggle on the technical aspects of OCR. But what's what's quicker to to get used to?
Speaker 1:Yes, what's quicker to transition? Because basically we're just struggling on the things that we don't train I, because basically we're just struggling on the things that we don't train. I'm sure giving us a bit of time to transition would be a lot better at those other bits and pieces than we would otherwise.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and there are pieces of kit that we could use in our training as well. So I think you could kind of have a. If you enjoyed both, you could have a season where you do both quite comfortably and do well at both. I don't think you'll ever be the very top, because I think you really need to start being specific in both sports. But I think if you enjoy throwing weights around but you also still enjoy obstacle racing, you can do both and you can do both quite successfully, I think and someone asked us a question based on the elite episode we did, like how do I become an age group racer?
Speaker 2:and I think just being accessible for every modality of sport will makes you actually quite a good age group racer. In obstacle course racing, having that ability to move a substantial amount of weight, do a good 5k, stay available physically, you'll, you'll be a very good age group racer. I know that's the phrase. You know what you need to be. What's that? A hybrid, a gladiator? A gladiator? What do you say? A hybrid, hybrid athlete.
Speaker 1:If you're a gladiator in fundamentals not in going to a coliseum and chopping people's heads off you'll be decent at both.
Speaker 2:Yeah, gladiator. So how would you define yourself ships? Are you an obstacle course racing athlete or hybrid racing athlete?
Speaker 1:I'm a gladiator. You're glad I'm a scaffolder. That's what I am. You're a scaffolder. That's what I am. You're a scaffolder.
Speaker 2:I think we've given some good takeaways from this episode and actually broken down some of our understandings of hybrid racer athlete, what it means, what we can do to take learnings from some of those athletes out there making a killing on YouTube. Mo needs to start doing his YouTube more.
Speaker 3:Video out tomorrow. Get cringe, wait. No, not out tomorrow, but out in a week, week's time, maybe. Yeah, maybe I'll film a video tomorrow. I've got a day off.
Speaker 2:Do it A day in the life of Mo. Everyone wants to know what you're up to in Sheffield, Even if you go into a cab. I just want to know.
Speaker 3:I just want to see what I'm doing. What does this new world look like?
Speaker 2:Anyone doesn't know, listeners-wise we're referring to, mo actually does have a YouTube channel and has done very good content on there of how to train for a Spartan race the British Championships review. Definitely check it out, mo. What is the actual name of it? Is it just Morgan Maxwell?
Speaker 3:Yeah, just Morgan Maxwell, I think at one point.
Speaker 2:Morgan Maxwell OCR racer.
Speaker 3:Well, at one point I was the most subscribed Morgan Maxwell, nice. I don't know if that's still the case, so maybe check, see, see, if I'm the most subscribed and if I'm not subscribe, because then I can become the most subscribed.
Speaker 1:I've got a YouTube channel. I knew he was going to say that what's yours called. I think it's just Chris Shipley.
Speaker 2:Funny enough, I've got one as well have you yeah do you want some Morgan YouTube channel trivia.
Speaker 1:Dr Chris Shipley comes out, just to bring it back to me just googled, chris Shipley.
Speaker 2:Sorry, bring it back to Morgan Maxwell.
Speaker 3:You know you've got to talk about me. Yeah Right, what do you think has more views? I'm going to give you two videos the Nuts Challenge recap or the British Championship recap.
Speaker 1:Which one was where.
Speaker 3:Well, British Champs was a Spartan race.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, that one. Did we ever recap that? You can't really go with that. The footage wasn't on point.
Speaker 3:What the British Champs one.
Speaker 2:No, he's talking about his channel, oh right what are you on?
Speaker 1:about, I don't know. That was a great video.
Speaker 3:We had little doc-style interviews.
Speaker 2:Oh, sorry, I'm giving it away.
Speaker 3:I'm going to say the British champs. Well, no surprisingly, the Nuts Challenge recap has nearly double the views.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but don't forget Finlay. Is that the one? No, you did one.
Speaker 2:You haven't even watched him. That's your take.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you need to go and watch Mo you go away and watch Mo. You're obviously not promoting it.
Speaker 3:well enough, watch me beat everyone at nuts. That's what you need to do.
Speaker 2:Hang on, I want to have a look at him. Your best viewed video actually is Training for a Spartan race, which is always going to get all the clicks.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so Mo, give us a takeaway for listeners on this episode, apart from subscribe to my YouTube channel. Apart from that, I think, take hope in the fact that you can do both. You don't have to isolate yourself and be either a high rocks racer or a hybrid athlete whatever you want to call yourself and an obstacle racer. You can do both and you can do both well, but you might be sacrificing the top end. So just know that.
Speaker 3:if you are going to do both. You might be just letting something slip on either one, but I think you can do both well. I believe in you.
Speaker 2:Ships, do you want to give us a takeaway?
Speaker 1:I gave you a Chinese earlier. That's what I'm going to get after this, I think A takeaway.
Speaker 2:Be a gladiator, be a gladiator, be a gladiator, yeah, all right. Well, I hope that was useful for everyone. To hear us talk through hybrid racing, ocr racing, the comparison where it's going, how we can do more to learn from hybrid racing, and, yeah, let's, let's go away and let's start planning 2025. Big year ahead.
Speaker 1:It is a big year.
Speaker 2:It is Right, see you later. Bye, bye, bye. Thanks for watching.
