Accountability Corner
Embark on an adventure with Darren, Morgan, and Chris, the dynamic trio steering the ship at "Accountability Corner." As passionate OCR enthusiasts, they're on a mission to share their expertise and enthusiasm for obstacle course racing with the world. From sharing insider tips on overcoming training plateaus to demystifying the complexities of race registration and gear selection, no stone is left unturned. Whether you're a seasoned competitor hungry for fresh perspectives or a newcomer eager to dip your toes into the muddy waters of OCR, these hosts are here to guide you every step of the way. Join them as they peel back the curtain on the electrifying world of OCR, revealing stories of triumph, camaraderie, and boundless adventure.
Don't miss out – tune in and discover why OCR is capturing hearts and minds around the globe!
Accountability Corner
#46: Pip Rainbow - The Physiotherapist's Guide to OCR Recovery and Prevention
We welcome physiotherapist Pip Rainbow to discuss injury prevention, rehabilitation techniques, and the psychological aspects of recovery in obstacle course racing.
Pip shares her journey from sports therapy to becoming a qualified physiotherapist now working with Saracens Rugby Club
The importance of understanding your body and identifying when a niggle becomes an injury that needs addressing
Ankle injuries are among the most common OCR injuries, followed by shoulder problems and muscle/tendon issues
Consistency in training load is crucial for injury prevention - dramatic spikes often lead to breakdowns
Early intervention with injuries leads to faster recovery - address issues that persist beyond a week
Setting small, achievable goals during rehabilitation gives athletes motivation and measurable progress
Age plays a smaller role in injury susceptibility than training consistency, nutrition, sleep, and recovery
Getting strong is fundamental to injury prevention - but with proper technique and appropriate progression
Rehabilitation should be viewed as training rather than something separate from your athletic development
Injured athletes can still improve by focusing on components of OCR they can safely perform
If you're dealing with an injury, remember that consistent rehabilitation is key to long-term recovery. Don't abandon your strengthening exercises once symptoms subside - maintain them to build resilience against future issues.
Welcome to the Accountability Corner, where we talk about everything obstacle course racing, from staying disciplined in training, affording the sport, signing up for your first race and, more importantly, how the sport is growing around the world, with your hosts Morgan Maxwell, chris Shipley and Darren.
Speaker 2:Martin, right, let's go. Episode 46 of Accountability, corner corner, and we are continuing with the amazing trend that we've put in place to have more guests. But before we get into the guest ships, how are you?
Speaker 1:no, I'm not so bad plodding along getting by.
Speaker 2:You know the same old story okay, you're talking about injuries, aren't you like? You're still still a little bit injured I am still a little bit injured.
Speaker 1:It just seems to be one thing after the other.
Speaker 2:Got the crack and curse well, I'm gonna cut you off then, because I think the topic of today is gonna be quite good for you then to know, to know this. So our guest um, we have got on. Is Pip Pip, welcome to Accountability Corner. Or do people know you for Pip, or do they know you Pip Rainbow?
Speaker 3:How do they know you, Pip? I mean, I think most people question my last name on whether it's real or not.
Speaker 1:I always think that, but I've not bothered asking.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, it is real, it is real.
Speaker 1:It is.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's not just some fun name I put on social media for shits and giggles. I have been stopped in the airport a few times with people questioning me whether my passport was real too because of it.
Speaker 1:Well, you can change your name these days to anything you want.
Speaker 3:Exactly, exactly, but in some cultures as well, apparently, rainbow is not actually a positive thing, it's an unlucky thing. So I don't know if that means anything nah, not here, it's all luck out where.
Speaker 1:Just quickly on that then where does rainbow come from? Because I have actually I'm actually quite glad this is on the podcast. I'll get to ask this because I have wanted to ask it for ever.
Speaker 3:So where does um, honestly, I don't really know. I think what we know is it's a mixture of, like german and french and it comes from something called rain belt, but you try google it and it comes up with loads of rubbish and I honestly haven't spent the time going back and working it all out. Um, so, like my, my dad's family is all from newcastle and I've not really met anybody like down south with the last name, rainbow.
Speaker 1:Rainbow, rainbow.
Speaker 3:So yeah, it is my real name, but I think most people just know me as Pit.
Speaker 2:I like that Interesting facts to start the episode and I think people are going to be even more interested when we introduce the topic for today, because I think all listeners have sort of realized the trend that we've been going on since probably a few episodes back, that there's been a few niggles and injuries around the place, and it does happen over winter, it does happen over the course of a season and everyone reacts to them very differently. So, pip, we wanted to get you on because obviously you have a professional background in maybe more injuries. But could you elaborate a little bit into, like your, your professional career, shall we say?
Speaker 3:what do you do?
Speaker 2:well, yeah, what do? You do for a living and how can it help us?
Speaker 3:um uh, I am a physiotherapist. Um so, yeah, people come to see me when they've got niggles or injuries, or normally when they're so far down the line. They're like I actually can't do something. Can you help?
Speaker 3:me now and I'm like you probably shouldn't see me a while ago, uh. So, yeah, I've um. I started training in 2015, I think, but went in as a sports therapist. Didn't do physiotherapy straight away. Um, got a placement at a professional rugby club with their first team, loved it, but they basically were like you're not going to progress as a sports therapist because it's not a um protected title. So anybody can call themselves a sports therapist, whether they have a degree or not. So technically you guys can too, if you want to um, but you can't call yourself legally a physiotherapist and if you did without your um degree, you would be sued. Basically, um but um. Within professional sport, a lot of people don't recognize sports therapy. So did a uh master's during lockdown, uh, which was entertaining. Spent a lot of time on the covid wards, um, and then qualified in 2021, yeah, and then been working ever since wow, what does a physiotherapist actually do?
Speaker 3:I guess all sorts um if you ask me what I do on a day-to-day basis. I probably have a lot of meetings and do a lot of admin. Do I see many people? No, not a lot. I haven't assessed a single player today, um, uh, so yeah, that was. My meetings have just been with either surgeons or coaches or snc coaches or bits like that. I've not actually seen a player once today, um.
Speaker 3:But I guess the nitty gritty is someone come see us, they'll talk to us, we'll sess, we'll try to triage um, put together a puzzle in our head. What's going on, look at you objectively so get you to do things, pod and probe different things and then possibly do some treatment, oh, and then hopefully, if you see someone productive, give you some rehab, um, and then hopefully you go away and you slowly start to see changes. You don't always see them straight away, um. And then I guess the other big big thing we do is listen sometimes. Sometimes I feel I'm more of a. It's like a psychologist and a physiotherapist, but that's part and parcel of the job I was going to ask you that.
Speaker 2:Well, that's actually what's going to get into a bit later, because there are some questions there. When it comes to physiotherapy, you're with we are with sports people for a maybe an hour period where they're at their lowest and I guess they're a bit, they're a bit more open in them places because they they feel a bit more vulnerable because they're they can't do what they're meant to do. They feel like the world is ending and you're the only person they can talk to in that moment.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think in my setting. I work for Saracens Rugby Club currently and obviously it's one of the best clubs in the country. We're not doing that well at the moment, but that's another topic. And then there's a lot of pressure, I think, around you want, you want to be on the pitch, you want to be available for selection and you don't want to be sat on the on a on a um bed while everybody else is out training um, and there's there's a lot around trying to like deliver bad news and trying to make the best out of that bad news, because that is often what our job is we're here to deliver bad news and then hopefully make it better I think we can all relate to that quite a lot, because we've all we've all been in that same boat.
Speaker 1:We've all sat down. I think we, a lot of us in this community, have even sat down with you and it's always like the same case. We always have something going wrong and you do, you sit there and you wait for this sort of thing to happen and be told what you can and can't. But no one wants to be. I think the worst thing you can be told is to rest and yeah, but it's just like oh, you get told to rest, or you get told to do this, get told to that, and all you want to do is train and do, do the thing you love doing. And it must be the same with the rugby guys.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I don't think it's different. Whatever sport you do, I think the worst thing you can be told is rest. I don't think I've ever told a player to do nothing. There's always forget. They can't necessarily do the core thing that they're like well, I can't go run around a boggy field with loads of obstacles and jump over some things and swing off things. It's like no, I get that and I get that, that's what you want to do, but like go, there's so many other things that we can do that will help you about fitter, better, stronger. And if you try look at it that way it comes out.
Speaker 3:I've got a player that springs to mind who hasn't played a game of rugby since September, has three complex conditions going on because why have one when you can have three and he's basically just gone. Ok, well, I'm going to make the best out of the situation. I know I'm not playing rugby before the summer. And then one day I came in and saw him and he was so down and I was like, oh god, this isn't gonna be, this isn't gonna be good. And, honestly, that's the only time and he's had such a good attitude of just going. Okay, what can I do? What can I focus on? What? Can I do? This and it makes my life easier, but also like it means that he's progressing. He's not perfect, there's a long way to still go, but I think when you can flip any negative into a positive, you're always going to come out better.
Speaker 2:Yeah that's good, but why did you choose physiotherapy?
Speaker 3:Well, I've always been sporty, Like I couldn't, like, I think. When I was five I remember saying to my parents that I'm going to go to the Olympics. I learned quite quickly I wasn't going to go to the Olympics, um, sadly. Uh, as a spectator, yes. Uh, as an athlete, no. Um, maybe one day as a physio new pipe dream, um. And I knew like my parents went to London every day.
Speaker 3:I didn't really see them growing up so much on like a day-to-day basis, because they'd leave before I got up and got back after I went to bed and then we'd see them at weekends loads. But I was like I don't want to sit behind a desk, that sounds boring. So I knew I wanted to do something practical and then kind of through school, kind of navigated my way into going. I want to do something sporty. Sports science came up. I was like I'm not really sure. I was like sounds okay, but I wasn't really sold by it and then didn't do physiotherapy straight away, basically because I was told I wasn't clever enough to do it. I'm more than clever enough to do it. Most people are away basically because I was told I wasn't clever enough to do it. I'm more than clever enough to do it. Most people are um, if you do a jigsaw puzzle you can do it.
Speaker 1:That's me out.
Speaker 3:It's right away it's putting a puzzle together, that's all it is. Um. And then came across sports therapy. And then sports therapy is great because it focuses on the like, muscle, skeletal side of it, whereas physiotherapy you have to do the cardiovascular system and um neuro, neuro stuff as well. So, like stroke, parkinson's um, which is interesting but I also find really boring because you can't get people back to 100%. I'm like you can every so often, but as a general rule of thumb you can't and they have not a great quality life and I was like that's not for me, whereas with the msk stuff that I do now and like working with athletes, I'm like I get to get people back to hopefully better than they were beforehand and that's way more fun in my opinion and with with um, like physiotherapy, you focus also not only on this, like the skeletal muscular system, you do focus on like the um endocrine system and focus on like the, how the lymphatic system and everything, how it drains, and like the hormones, everything like that.
Speaker 2:I'm assuming, because we we did parts of it when we did.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I I'm definitely not an expert, I can tell you that now, uh, but I like, so, like, when people have swelling and injuries, I understand how to do things like limb catheter drainage and the benefit of looking after your lymph nodes, etc. To because if your lymph nodes, what can I get rid of swelling? Swelling is good. It's not always as negative as people think it is, um, but at some point it does need to disappear and get the hell out of there. So, um, like, there's different, like, uh, hands-on techniques that you can definitely use to help with the, with the drainage, but, um, probably the detail softly in the crying system.
Speaker 2:I wouldn't quiz me on because I'd probably be a bit rusty sorry, I'm not gonna quiz you anyway, I just know the terminology of it.
Speaker 1:No, bad just throwing out big words no, that's your hormone system.
Speaker 2:And then your lymphatic system is your um immune system of how it drains everything through the body yeah, yeah, simply put, yeah, yeah that's a very simplistic way of putting it, but yeah, I think it's a bit more complicated than that, but I'm no expert.
Speaker 3:it's a very simplistic way of putting it, but yeah, I think it's a bit more complicated than that, but I'm no expert.
Speaker 2:It's a teaching moment for science with.
Speaker 1:Shipley.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm not a biologist or sports scientist.
Speaker 3:That's okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah that's fine, I'm only a doctor in OCR science.
Speaker 3:And scaffolding oh yeah yeah.
Speaker 1:I do that as well, yeah. That's a jigsaw so you can do them, but I've got to make up, keep up appearances got me okay so I'm not what I am that's pip.
Speaker 2:And then, if people don't people don't know your sporting background, how, what, what would you, just, how would you describe your sporting background? How, what would you? Just? How would you describe your sporting background, rather than professional background?
Speaker 3:um, at school kind of did a bit of everything hockey, netball, swimming, tennis, athletics um, probably fair to say that I I was always something you wanted on your team, but I was never your star player. I was never like the person you go, wow, she's really good, but I, reliable, I did my player. I was never like the person you go, wow, she's really good, but I, reliable, I did my job. I'm competitive. I don't like losing um and then um and then and then I broke my knee so didn't do any activity for ages. I was. I was a terrible rehabber. I'm gonna tell you that I'll be honest, I terrible.
Speaker 1:How did you break your knee?
Speaker 3:I ran into someone about Dave Peter size. I basically hate the smell of mint, can't stand it Like generally can't stand it, and someone put mint shaving cream in my hair and I was fuming. So I chased after him to get him back and a little kid ran in front of him. And imagine, like Dave Peters crushing a little kid, we decided that he decided that wasn't the best outcome, so fell on the floor and as I was running my leg got caught underneath him. He fell on it and my leg just hyperextended and bent the wrong way.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, I did it in the States too. So, um well, yeah, I did it in the states too. So, um well, that must be expensive. Luckily I did it at work, so it was all under work like insurance, so I didn't. I paid an extra hundred pounds to get upgraded so I could fly home, uh, in business class and that was the extent of it, but it was a.
Speaker 3:It was a massive uh palaver. I wasn't. I hadn't started like really training, so I didn't necessarily understand it, um, or how to rehab it. And then they made me walk in it for about four weeks, which was the worst idea in the whole entire world, um, and it just went on and on and on and then didn't have great rehab, so I just didn't recover, um, and then when I finally got on top of it I have a few issues now, but I get away with it a lot but yeah, so didn't do anything probably for three years. I was so lazy, um, and then suddenly at the beginning of lockdown I'd started doing bits just before lockdown and then that like run five, nominate five, give five or whatever it was. Someone did that and I ran 5k of my mum blowing out my backside um to try to get it under 30 minutes, which I achieved, uh, by the way round, buts there which, as you know, is not not flat that's mountainous for the uk that's some serious elevation down there.
Speaker 3:It's not easy um, and I just found OCR just before that through kind of sports therapy stuff. So OCR Worlds had been at Nuclear two years in a row. The first year my knee was nowhere near ready to even attempt to go around Nuclear. Second year I did the charity run with a friend and I think it was called Shark's Teeth, where the monkey bars just went up and down like very simple. But I had no upper body strength like none. I couldn't hold myself to save anything and my friend was trying to teach me how to swing and I went a bit wrong and I landed on the metal platform that you stand on and just completely broke a rib. Everything was so sore and I refused to give up. So there's lots of photos of me in a tinfoil bib finishing this race. I went yeah, that was real fun, I'm going to keep doing this. And then got fit in lockdown and didn't really look back.
Speaker 2:So yeah, that's kind of how the transition kind of happened and didn't really look back so yeah, that's kind of how the transition kind of happened. So so you have, you sounds like you officially identify as an obstacle course racer.
Speaker 3:Then yeah, pretty much I don't really do any other sport now, yeah, we don't.
Speaker 2:We don't tend to do any other sports, can't afford any other sports no, there is that.
Speaker 3:I do, though, wish I could go, not wish I could go back and play hockey. I wish I had more time to go back and play hockey. That is the one sport I do miss a lot. Um, so yeah, that's kind of yeah background, did a bit of everything and then found OCR and you never leave yeah.
Speaker 1:I've been sucked into the, to the black hole of OCR that seems to be once, once you're in and you have sort of a love for it, and it does tend to find a special bunch of people that have sort of attributes in ways that other people don't have and they just, I don't know. It really does speak to people, don't it?
Speaker 3:yeah, I someone summed it up quite well to me the other week of kind of like we're talking about rumble specifically, but I also do think it applies elsewhere but it's kind of just a bunch of misfits that don't really belong anywhere else. I think that doesn't just apply to rumble, but it definitely applies to the rumble gang yeah, that definitely does, and the good thing about that is that you can.
Speaker 2:We're so different that we've not been able to apply ourselves to one given sport in the past that we've got so much things to learn from, learn from each other. We've all got different specialist bits that we can learn and I think, I think, you're right there as well, dan.
Speaker 1:I mean not just like specialist bits we want to learn, but like we're constantly wanting to learn new bits and pieces because it's ever changing. So you're always wanting to, like, learn a new skill, brush up on something else, do something a little bit different, figure out that your body moves in a certain way or you can. You can do other bits and pieces or get around a specific sort of technique because you can change your body to do different ways of doing things.
Speaker 3:I think every ocr athlete loves that yeah, I think probably as well those who've done lots of different sports. It's because they just want a new stimulus and a new challenge and it's like oh, new shiny thing, new shiny thing, new shiny thing. But you get that in OCR because there's so many different disciplines you can keep just swapping between, but they all benefit each other.
Speaker 1:So many shiny things too.
Speaker 2:So you are currently physiotherapist, for did you say Saracens? Yes, so obviously you're around professional sportsmen and women all the time, do you see pardon?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:What do you see in terms of like from your perspective, like, what makes OCR unique compared to these other supports? I don't know if there is a physiotherapist perspective to it. Maybe there's more different injuries that we occur, but that's the perspective as well. What is the difference? Do you reckon what is the intrigue of OCR?
Speaker 3:Great question. Definitely everyone at work thinks I've lost my head. I have to spend a lot of time explaining. What I was really happy about was when one of our big bosses sent me the um eda's video of her world's toughest red bull course. He went is this what you do? I was like, yes, and I'm this good. No, I'm not this good.
Speaker 1:But I'm not gonna tell you that I'm not that good.
Speaker 3:Um, yeah, but I was like that was that was great. For them to kind of suddenly go oh this is what you do, because you try and explain it and I show them the odd bit, but they don't really get it. Um, there's a lot of structure around rugby. It's very well established. Um, I think you see a lot of. There's a lot of similarities of like in a professional setting, or particularly in the setting, so that I mainly work in the academy. I support up with the seniors and the women as and when needed.
Speaker 3:But, like my, my lead is around the academy and the boys are all gunning to get contracts. That's all they want is contracts, um, and so they'll do anything to put themselves on the pitch. But again, we're all slightly psychotic in OCR and we'll do anything to get ourselves on the start line of a race, whether it's appropriate or not. You guys just don't have someone selecting you or deselecting you or managing your engine and going, no, you can't race, or you might, but like, not to the same degree.
Speaker 3:Whereas I have a lot more input around the rugby on whether they are appropriate, often it tries to be a group decision between me, fnc, one of the other physios, coaches, of going what's best for this player's long-term development and their recovery for their injury or no? No, we need this player, so you need to get them fit, so work your magic, whereas an OCR it's, it's a bit of a free-for-all and if it works it works, and sometimes it really doesn't work. I think you see more people in OCR probably not complete something because they're not quite ready for it than you do in the rugby, because they have a bit more support.
Speaker 1:Because we're a bit more injured.
Speaker 3:But also you go to work your job Shipley is a very physically demanding job and some other people who sit at a desk and do nothing and then go out and train, like what I think most people on an average, I think, if they're doing really well what I don't know how many, I know I average eight hours of training a week, give or take, depending on the week and what work schedule is like, but that's not a lot.
Speaker 3:These boys are training like the senior schedule academy academy. Seniors are in nearly every day and then first team are in for a minimum of three, three days a week and then there's a match on top and then they have recovery systems in between. They finish at three and they go home and go into the sauna or go for a swim or go for coffee or whatever they want to do, um, and have all this extra support network around them. They have to worry about cooking their breakfast or lunch. We get that at work, whereas we've got all these other life admin stuff. We actually have to try consider on top and it, it, it just builds. So your body don't probably play plays a role into how our bodies might break down a bit quicker than um than some of the professional athletes knowing that, then, because I know a lot of people have asked you for help in the past, especially I have.
Speaker 1:So what's like the most common ocr injury that people have asked you or that you may have seen other people getting?
Speaker 3:ankles is definitely up there oh yeah, ankles is probably top. Definitely. More people have come to me about ankles. So the girls I probably shouldn't be saying this, but I'm gonna say this. The girls have a of a rumble. Ocr, girls only chat, so you boys don't have to listen to it.
Speaker 2:Oh, didn't know that.
Speaker 1:There you go Give us some gossip. There's not really much gossip.
Speaker 3:It only talks about, like who needs a tampon, which you boys don't need to hear about. That's why it was created. I didn't create it, but it was created for those sorts of purposes. But obviously a few girls in Rumble have hurt their ankles over the last year, but also previously as well, and we generally have nicknamed everybody Ankle Club. That's now what it's known as, because so many people have done and done quite significant things, rather than like just tweaks and rolls that linger and they and they niggle, which are annoying and they can last when not managed properly, but they're not actually that bad.
Speaker 3:Um, obviously there's been a few big ones, um, and all a lot of them just freak accidents, um, but yeah, ankles are definitely up there less in OCR in terms of people coming to me, but I often hear people talk about oh, my shoulder, this, my shoulder that, my rotator cuff, this, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah and I'm like, yep, that's probably another common one, but I think I've dealt with less people in OCR with shoulder stuff. And then I think the other one that would spring to mind would be like muscle injuries or tendons. Muscles or tendons just from people pounding the roads or the trails because they're like I need to get my mileage up.
Speaker 2:Those are the common ones. Do you think our injuries in obstacle course racing happen because we're ill-equipped and don't understand our bodies? Or do you think it's because of the need of the sport?
Speaker 3:I think both. I think a lot of people don't understand their bodies. Um, I worry about some of the juniors coming up, like you see stuff on um on social media and I look at juniors looking and like juniors, I mean like anyone under 18, like that's how my, my brain perceives it. And I look at some people lifting certain weights and I'm going, that technique one is horrendous not that I'm perfect, by the way, but I also don't lift that heavy, um, but and I'm like you shouldn't be lifting that and that worries me that people, because in OCR, much earlier on, unlike rugby, you couldn't put a young prop against a senior prop because it just wouldn't work. You don't have the experience, it's dangerous, you don't have the physical strength to do it.
Speaker 3:In OCR racing you see a lot because it's doable that, like, some of our younger athletes will race up in the elite field because they're good enough to do it, because our sport kind of a lot of it relies around, like, your body weight ratio and actually if you've got it and you're fast enough, you can do it.
Speaker 3:So, like crack on, I have no issue with that side of it, but I think sometimes obviously some of the strength element comes into it and strength training and people want to work on that. And then you see some people do certain strength stuff to where it's a get better at the carries or just general strength strength gym training to improve, um, they're running etc. And I look at that like that worries me a lot about the lack of understanding. I think in the junior world and people they see the seniors doing stuff like and us adults doing it, but I'm like our bodies have developed, you know, whereas they're still growing. You run into so many more issues, so that that often does worry me and I think there is probably a lack of understanding because there's no real structure and lots of people don't have coaches and that's not to say you need a coach, but I think people see, oh, I'm doing, someone's doing this on Instagram, so I'm going to do this on Instagram and I'm like no, please don't?
Speaker 2:I see that a lot. Yeah, there's no. Well, obviously we always say it's a growing sport, but obviously it's more established sport now. So we it's been growing for years but as it grows further, there has to be some sort of professional influence on people and how they train and how they adopt their approach to training and racing and rehab. Like you on in your professional career, like you're doing that for, um, aspiring athletes in rugby, um, and it's like how do we then develop that for aspiring athletes in OCR without, without any money?
Speaker 3:uh, great question, because I don't know how we're always doing it in rugby either all right, okay and you're never going to get it right there.
Speaker 3:Like there's loads of cases that spring to mind that I've got in rugby where we've pushed and we're like, no, we're going to get in fit, and actually it wasn't the right decision. The right decision was to pull them back. And it's always this kind of like give and take, like sometimes you, you, you push too hard, you, you, you don't respect it enough because you think you can do it. And sometimes you're like actually I could probably have done this two weeks quicker, and that is is kind of what it is. And sometimes you get the nail on the head um, and, and not every injury is the same. And when people go well, I had this injury, exact same I'm like it's probably not the exact same, um, and I did this, this and this and this, and it's like no, go get your own assessment and get an own your, your own professional to look at your body. And then look and I think that's better.
Speaker 3:And I think, like our sport demands a lot and there's so many different variations of what it needs. There's so many parts to it that demand different things. Like we run on uneven trails. So if you've got floppy ankles, like you're going to struggle a bit more, but there's stuff you can do for it, but that's so. That comes as a combination of like you need probably need to get stronger if you've got floppy ankles but again, you can't stop the fact that we've got crazy trail races at times, um, or we're in boggy fields that bring mud up to your knees so you can't control that.
Speaker 3:Um, I think some of the upper limb injuries, that's where people probably don't understand their bodies enough to kind of go. Actually, I probably should have done something about this two weeks ago and I always say to people like I think you get a better outcome, we're going to see someone sooner, and they go. You know what? It's a niggle. You don't need to stop. Just do X, y, z exercise, get on top of it, almost like invest in your health, basically Like invest in your body, get a professional to look at it rather than wait a month down the line. And then it's niggly and you've gone into this vicious pain cycle that you now have to somehow work out how to break. But you don't know if you can break it there, there, there or there, and you have to. It's this trial and error of trying to break the pain cycle and then it's like oh well, here's another four weeks before I feel any better.
Speaker 1:Um and yeah I was gonna say do you think, yeah, do you think then I'm gonna try and get my words right now, because you stopped me mid-sentence. But uh, for people who do physiotherapy, do you think it's better that you know the sport that you're treating? Because I've had, I've gotten to see multiple different people about the same problem sometimes and I get completely different answers. But do you think that's mainly because those people don't understand the sport, don't understand what the the sport requires, or they're just looking at things wrong, or they're just bad?
Speaker 1:physiotherapists that's kind of a personal question probably a combination of all three.
Speaker 3:If you put me in a room with five other therapists, I guarantee that I'll have probably a different opinion to each one of them, but that doesn't make me right or them right, um, and I think to anybody almost the same, the same as if you were having therapy. You know, for your mental health, whatever it is, you can go see a therapist. You're like I hated that session, I don't like this person, I don't want this therapist. Go see somebody else. You're more likely to do that, you know, and I think it's the same with physiotherapy. I think people get shy about and offending people about going to see somebody else. But, like I often say to people, if I've done some treatment with you, I'm like I need you to tell me whether you I've actually improved something or made it worth. Don't tell me I've worked magic and it actually feels like shit, because that isn't going to help me, help you like.
Speaker 3:Um, I think some of it comes from lack of understanding of the sport. I know I've had a couple of people come to me and gone. I would like you to rehab me because you get the sport. I don't know that it's made a massive difference, necessarily I have managed to get those people fit. I I'm not sure it's the uh, it's the true answer, but I do think, like in terms of the rugby stuff as well. So we have a, we'll be given a session plan, and the more you understand what's involved in the session, I often have to go to the scs because sometimes I I don't get the drill that the coaches want me to do, because I can't.
Speaker 3:I need to watch it to understand it. They talk at me and they're like this person's gonna do this and this and this and I'm like, oh, I don't understand what you want from me. What is the minds of this, this drill that you want? So I think when you understand the sport, I can turn around to you and go actually you could do this section of of um, of of the session or like, if it's an upper limb injury, it's like, well, start with rings, start with monkey bars I know they're simple, whereas someone who doesn't get it they're not going to know that rings and monkey bars are simple, and then doing a technical rig challenge with funky grips is going to be way more demanding on your, on your upper body.
Speaker 3:So it's like knowing how to scale it. I think that allows you then to come back into the sport earlier, which I think in an athlete's mind then goes well, I'm getting better. Quicker you're probably not. Your own goal is quicker, but suddenly you've been given the green light to do the fun stuff again and I think that's probably what helps in in um the person understanding the sport, rather than that.
Speaker 2:But I think in the beginning I don't think it matters in your like acute, acute issue um, and unfortunately you do have shit physios out there in this, in the same way you do in every profession, though that's not new I like that, um, I, when I go to physios from, especially from an athlete perspective, I I'm like justifying the sport to them, because I want them to understand why I'm feeling this way, like when you, when you say it's, it's like, it's like 50 physical and a fifth set mental, I'm going there because I want them just to understand why I'm injured, like, or why I have a niggle. I really want them to really like empathize with me and to put themselves in my position and understand, like, why I've got to where I am. And can you just, can you, can you just tell me the magic words that I can help you, like that's, that's what you're waiting for, and and you know what going to a physio I think sometimes is is more of like a, is more fit, like uh, what's the word?
Speaker 2:therapy session yeah, it's fair. It's therapy. Yes, it's. It helps me understand that someone, someone's going to help me yeah, acceptance and acceptance.
Speaker 1:You know that it's time to go. I think it's a big step. When you go to I was going to say therapy, then it's a big step when you go to therapy.
Speaker 3:But it's the same with physiotherapy it's physical therapy, as the americans say. So you're not wrong, do you?
Speaker 2:feel that way when you see people, even like, like, not just ocr, but obviously the people that you treat at work yeah, massively.
Speaker 3:There are days where I'm like I live by myself and there are days where I'm like I'm so glad I don't have to be turned up for human again for the rest of the day, bear in mind. I can get home at nine o'clock at night, so I only, I only stay up for maybe another half hour an hour, but it's like I don't have to do anybody um, but I sometimes some a lot of physiotherapy to get good buy-in and good outcomes isn't necessarily like how good your hands-on treatment is, how good your rehab program is. It's, I think, as you guys say, having someone. The patient needs to feel like they're being emphasized with and listened to and valued. And if you kind of like pick off those things, then suddenly you get loads of buy-in from the patient and then they do exactly what you want them to do. You know like they're like okay, if I want to get better, I know I have to do xyz, and they suddenly will go around and do xyz and then they that the next time you see them. It it's very much a case of going look what I've done. I feel so much better, or this one's worked, but this one's not worked. What are you thinking and giving ideas.
Speaker 3:I think when people get shut down and they're like and when someone comes to you with a problem, it's a big thing for them and at times I am very much going to tell you you need to get over yourself.
Speaker 3:I've said that a lot, um, and normally, if I've said that to friends, it's normally that I don't have the capacity to be a physio brain right now, like leave me alone. Um, I but and there are times I say it at work like like one of the values at saracen's, um, there's a lot around like competitiveness and and um discipline etc. And it's like, actually I need you to to tell me whether this is injury sore or just rugby sore, because you go around bashing people for a living, you know. But I also need you to tell me when something's not working. So, actually, if something's not working, then be honest and that's okay. But I think if you don't get the buy-in from the player, you're they're not going to do your rehab that you need them to do, and then they're not going to get better and you're just going to go round and round in circles and then the person doesn't feel valued and they're like well, that was pointless, I'm not going to go physiotherapy again well, I think that's.
Speaker 1:One of the troubles from being a regular athlete is that you don't always have the constant reassurance or coming back to the physiotherapist to like ask them questions all the time yeah, yeah, no, it's hard.
Speaker 3:Um, I know I can be bad for it, in the sense of a lot of friends will message me and they're like, what do you think of this? I'm like, and I'll just reply and I'll be out with other friends, like just so, and they're like, are you working? I'm like, well, no, it's a friend just Just ask me a question. I'm just replying. You know, I can be really bad for that.
Speaker 1:But I mean I hate text. Well, I don't hate texting you, but I hate messaging you because I feel like, oh, you know, I've got to ask you a question and you're doing it out of the goodness of your heart to a lot of us, and it's just like, well, you know it's quite a lot that you need to ask.
Speaker 3:But also I think most people who I think know me or ask me a question, know me well enough that if I don't have the time I'm not replying to you like, uh, my whatsapp is full of messages from work because my I don't, I don't have a work phone compared to a personal phone. So, like you, get just filtered into like the personal life stuff and then I have to deal with the work stuff and if I've got mental capacity at the end of the day to deal with friends, then and their physio issues I'll deal with it and, as a lot of friends tell me, I can be quite blunt and direct. So I don't with friends. I don't really give them the nice fluffy answer that I might if I was in a bit more professional setting trying to make business. So you get the buy and I'm like you've come to me because you want an answer. I'm going to give you the answer that I think. I'm not going to fluff this up for you and make it sound nicer than it is podcast.
Speaker 2:We always try to like I don't know, open up and really like, delve into and understand like a subject or or just a terminology that we use in sport. That is really sometimes there's more to it than there is. So, like the word injury, like what is the definition of an injury, because when I think, when we think about it, when we we first start sport, injury is like that's it. I'm out, can't do anything, I'm never doing sport again in my life, I'm injured. But now obviously we've most of all of us here have been doing sport for many years. We know injury isn't probably the term. It's more of like oh, I've got a weakness, or I've got something to work on, or I've got an opportunity to get stronger here. So at work. How do you define injuries? Or is or is it just like this person needs to work on maybe their glute strength? This person needs to work on I I don't know where I'm going with the correct maybe. I don't know if that makes sense.
Speaker 3:I get what you're asking me I don't know that you can split it up quite as well as you say. So we go short-term injury, long-term injury, so anything less than six weeks is a short-term injury. I feel like that seemed wild to you lots yeah.
Speaker 3:You can't do anything for six weeks. But a lot of our injuries they're quite long-term, like ACLs or something called dyssyndesmosis, which is a complex in your ankle, like a lot of them will be like. You're doing well in the general population if you get back at nine months for an acl, um. So, and that comes with a lot of rehab. So that's how we kind of split it go long term, short term, long term. You can, if you want to be really particularly, go mid term, but that's less. I guess you say that's less than three months. I still think you lot would look at me if I'm, if I told you over that um. I have told a few people that they were that um, that that long and they did think I was crazy and every time they tried to jump a couple of sets they went oh yeah, no, I'm not ready for that, am I? I was like no, I'm not just holding you back for fun. I know, I know we're all cool say this, but I'm not trying to stop you doing the fun bits, um, and I think it's also learning to like when you have some of these longer term injuries, it's earning the right to go into the next step. You try, skip a step. You probably can skip that step that you skipped, but you and you'll go on to the next, the next level, next step. You probably can skip that step that you skipped, but you and you'll go on to the next, the next level, next step, whatever you want to call it, and then you'll go to the like, the next level. I'm not really good at this level. I'm struggling again and it's like yeah, because you skipped step two, you need step two to get to step four. And if you and people cause you can often find ways to skip steps and it's like no, no, you've not earned the right to do that. And that's why I think people fall into trouble, because they're like I'm bored, now I can kind of do this, I can kind of get on with everything, so let's just go. And it's like, actually, if you, if you gave it that week extra, yeah, it's boring, but actually then finally probably get back quicker, I think.
Speaker 3:Then the other part is like, yeah, you can go with weakness, niggles, like people get like ongoing back pain and stuff like that, depending on what you've got going on, like there could be an injury in there or again, as you say, it could be a weakness to to anything really. Um, and I think what a lot of people forget is that everything's kind of connected, so actually is it something in the foot you need to look at or something like that? So, yeah, I think everybody always has work-ons and people neglect things because they find it boring and they're like well, I'm not going to do this in the gym because that sounds boring and I want to go swing on something or go run in the mountains and that's way more exciting. Completely get that. I do sympathize with that.
Speaker 3:Um, and that's where people run into these bad habits and then pick up these niggles. I would always say if something lasts the week, you need to go and address it, because the quicker you address it, the quicker it goes away. So our boys are given like 48, 24 to 48 hours to report and if it's gone away, I don't care, I don't need to know about it. If it's not gone away, I have to know about it and you have to come see me.
Speaker 2:I love that you're getting it.
Speaker 2:You're definitely answering the question there because you're getting into mechanics that people can use for themselves to actually assess and to really really deep down tell themselves am I injured, am I not injured, have I I like the terminology you said that I work on, like, have I got to work on then have I got a niggle?
Speaker 2:Then I need to assess if it's lasted more than a week and then I need to look at, actually, is this going to progress into an injury?
Speaker 2:If it's progressing into an injury, I need to work on the steps that I'm going to take, my like micro milestones, to actually get this injury away, and you need to then break, break it down in that way because when you've got to such a even being able to run a 30 minute 5k you've done such good training that's taken such a long time for you to get get there. But it's happened so like sometimes it can happen so good, like you've just trained and you've ran, you've done all the work, but you don't realize what your body has gone through in its like minute detail to get to that point. And when you get injured, then you need to actually work all the way back through each one of them steps and then start them building blocks again, in a way to make sure you can get back to the 30 minute 5k and running healthy, if, if, if I'm understanding what you're saying with that yeah, pretty much.
Speaker 3:And I think if you give people like goals and milestones, you're like, okay, well, you can, if you can do xyz, then it breaks it down to them because otherwise people just focus on the end target and you're like that's a while away. You know as much as I wish I had something, some magic sponge, and I could just wash you over with magic. I thought, I thought no, well, well, well.
Speaker 2:That's real physiotherapy, does that's?
Speaker 3:that's when you go into football and you get paid the big bucks to do that. Yeah, um, yeah, um.
Speaker 1:I just I just had sponge it's not a bath ship.
Speaker 3:We ended the dark depths of my mind um, yep, if you give people little challenges, like we're all so competitive, like anybody who does lcr competitively, they're all stupidly competitive. So you give someone a challenge, like there's somebody who has come to see me for hamstring tendinopathy Far more common in girls than guys but he's been struggling and realistically, all runners should be able to do 30 single leg calf raises to a metronome beat in one go. So it's up for a second, down for a second, it's up for a second down for a second, up for a second down for a second. You should be able to do 30 of those and then 30 single leg hamstring bridges to the same metronome beat.
Speaker 3:Most people do really struggle and this person came to see me and thought he'd be fine and he really struggled and was like next time I see you, mine's gonna be way better. And like just instantly I gave him a target and he was like I'm gonna meet it and it suddenly, suddenly, rather than saying well, yours just need to be better like they have a number they understand they have to work to to know that they're going to be able to then maintain that capacity while they're running, and I'm like, if you think about it, you're lying on the floor and you can't tolerate 30 single leg calf raises, how the hell are you going to run 8k? You know? Um, or like I think. When you put it into perspective, I'm like I'm actually do quite a simple exercise on the floor and you're struggling, like now you're asking your body to what run for, depending on how fast you run it.
Speaker 1:Like yeah, you need to be told.
Speaker 3:You need to be told exactly that way, yeah but I think when you make it realistic and you transfer it into what people are trying to achieve, it helps them go. Okay. Well, this makes sense yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, everyone likes goals, and goals is what solidifies your training in your mind. If you have that sort of goal, then that's you, you do. You do sort of think, oh yeah, that's it right.
Speaker 3:One step, two step, three step yeah, um, but I think I think it works. Um, it doesn't work for everybody and sometimes it takes a little bit longer to get to one goal and then a bit quicker to get to another, and then you progress and you like, if rehab was a nice linear line, my job, progress, my job wouldn't exist, like it'd be easy, you wouldn't need me. But, like, rehab is this constant, constant battle of up down, up down, up down, and hopefully it should just trend, as in have a constant trend of going up. But you will, you'll have peaks and troughs and there'll be a moment where you think you're kind of through the worst of it and then it'll catch you again and you'll go nope, I'm not quite ready and you kind of set yourself back. But I think I think a good therapist as I think you mentioned earlier Darren listens to you like and you go away feeling valued, um, feeling loved, has a good assessment of you, like looks, looks as much as they can. Sometimes you don't have loads, so it's looking what you can. Um sets you up with a good rehab program.
Speaker 3:My personal opinion is someone, if you go to see someone who doesn't give you any rehab, you're never going to get a long-term change any. Anything that is passive where someone massages you, acupuncture, cupping, chiro therapy, all that jazz, that is all very passive that will give you some really nice short-term changes. That might give you buy-in to allow you to do xyz. But like, if it's not a maintenance thing and it's it, but it's for an injury, it's never going to probably fully solve it. It's always, in my opinion, it's always an adjunct to your rehab. Your rehab is the thing that's going to allow you to have a long-term success and that you can say goodbye to this injury and it won't keep bugging you and keep irritating you. And then the adjuncts help get by, because people like being touched like they do.
Speaker 3:No one goes to see a physiotherapy therapist that they don't like being touched. People want a massage or cupping or acupuncture. That is what it is, that's what people expect from physiotherapy. So it's giving the patient what they want and tricking them into doing their rehab, because that is actually what's best for them to get the long-term change, and then kind of focusing on what the patient can do, because I think a lot of people don't want to go to physiotherapy because they're like well, my physiotherapy said I can't do this, this and this, this, and they've not gone away and go.
Speaker 3:Well, I can still do this and I can still do that and I can still do that. Yes, I can't do that, but if I do X, y, z, then I can do it. So I think it's trying to find someone to make the positives and meet in the middle of going. Well, this is a mental thing and a physical thing. Something might need to stop. But what can I do to allow them to keep doing something, without sending them so crazy, and follow the plan that they want?
Speaker 1:yeah, here's one for you then.
Speaker 3:Right, so here's a scenario I'll give, I'll give you no, I'll give you a is this your back that you want?
Speaker 2:is this the real reason you're here, Pip?
Speaker 1:No, completely different scenario. Right, I want to play devil's advocate of someone who doesn't like going to a chiropractor, not a chiropractor, a physiotherapist. And they love Google. They've gone on Google. They've Googled what could possibly be wrong with it. Put it into Google. They've got AI. They've got result back right. They've got pictures. They've got loads of things to do. They've got everybody's got to answer under the sun. Yeah, nothing's working because nothing what should I do?
Speaker 3:nothing specific. You've got a lot of general stuff, but it's not specific and tailored to you. Your body is very different to darren's body, very different to my body. So what works for you, for what works for the general public? Because you can give a sheet of exercise, because this is what the NHS often do, they'll give you a sheet of exercise and go go away, because on that sheet of exercise it has, like almost like your fundamentals of like you do need to do this, but actually there may be an area that it's not covered at all because they won't cover everything. Because it's also like, if you give a put someone 12 exercises to do, they're not going to do it. Let's be honest if I ask you to do 12 exercises, you tell me to piss off. Um, so they're gonna. They're gonna crop out different things and they're gonna try capture everything, and that's what our dear friend google and ai will do.
Speaker 3:They also come up with some all sorts of all sorts of garbage oh yeah, they do and then and then it's not diagnosed potentially correctly and therefore you're not actually then being able to target your rehab specifically to the person. Like, rehab is successful when it's targeted to the person and not generalized. You generalize it, it's hit or miss whether it will work. Some people works great, other people it won't. And then you're like, well, it's not working, so what's the point? Google knows everything, yeah, so, yeah, it's, it's, it's one of those that it might work. It might not work, but if anyone said to me that it didn't work, I'd be like, well, yeah, it's Google. Google hasn't assessed your body, so it doesn't know what part of your body is weak, would be my opinion.
Speaker 2:Ships. I know you had a question like, especially on just health in general. So, pip, this is another sort of question that comes up about, like this is about the endocrine system again, because I'm really not a doctor.
Speaker 2:No, yeah, it's about the endocrine system. Yeah, I'm going into it and no it's, it's just about in terms of just general availability and staying healthy. Like um ships, his mate, he's a scaffolder. What's his name? Ethan Ethan. He came second at Nuts four laps the weekend, which is incredible, and obviously he's a scaffolder and he is just readily available in terms of like, physically active all the time. And then there's obviously myself that sits on a chair all the time and that literally just goes out and does my training and then sits on a chair all the time and that literally just goes out and does my training and then sits on a chair again. So is do you see a difference between people's lifestyles in terms of, from a physio point of view, that makes them better like, more readily available, more muscly attuned to their sport? I?
Speaker 3:think consistency, I think it comes down to consistency a lot. I, because I don't work with many people who have a nine to five desk job we do I do look after, obviously, like in the academy, like my guys go to school, so they are sat down to be fair, quite a lot um, but um, I think it's having the consistency that's in. So if Ethan Ethan probably hasn't done anything magical, but he also probably then hasn't gone away and tried to spike his load because he was like, right, I'm gonna try hit 100k this week. Having not hit 100k in how many weeks we get, I think we can get carried away, um about that.
Speaker 3:And again like there are going to be different strains on the body depending. You're going to have the classic like tightness from sitting in a chair all day and being stiff through your lower back and and and your pelvis, um, and rounded through your shoulders and all that jazz, and again like that. It's all a kinetic chain. So it is all probably connected to an extent. But I think, regardless of whether you are a practical worker or you sit down all the time, if you're consistent with your training load, you're not going to be injured so much like when you have massive spikes in injury, like you're fit, like our players fit massive injury, then they get fit for a bit.
Speaker 3:Massive injury, then get fit a bit. There's that inconsistency on it and you're trying to re-spike your load to get it back up to normal and you're not giving it time to gradually increase. And I think some days we get caught up at work and then we get lazy and we're like, oh, we just want to do it, particularly if we sit in the chair and then we go do a bit more and it's like actually our bodies are a bit stiff and we haven't probably warmed up quickly and we're just trying to go, go out and do it, whereas if ethan's just plugging away I'm working I don't know him, but like I'm just consistently doing stuff then that's possibly why but then I'm on, I'm the complete other end of the spectrum, that other end of the scale, because I train and then I'm always injured as well, and I'm older.
Speaker 2:Age got nothing to do with it. Ships.
Speaker 1:It has. I've been wearing away the same bones on the same side for 21 years.
Speaker 3:But would you, would you say you're consistent all the time with what you're doing?
Speaker 1:With work or training.
Speaker 3:Both. Yeah, until I get injured, and then I have to be consistent with it, and then you get injured and then you don't do a lot and then do you re-spike your load again Quite quickly.
Speaker 1:No, not quite quickly.
Speaker 3:No, I just reduce the exercise load and I can't change the workload yeah, no, I get you can't, but when you're fit again, do you just go bounce straight back into whatever you do?
Speaker 1:no, I wouldn't, I used to, I used to, but then. But then it is different from being a bit older. Um, I've said before and this time that, like when you are younger, you do bounce back a lot quicker oh, 100, 100.
Speaker 3:Honestly, I don't know the science behind it. There is your, your, you, your body can recover quicker, it it's got more energy available, like it just demands less of you, um. And so age plays a small factor in it? I don't think it's that, but if you've had lots of like underlying stuff, like it all just starts kind of linking up.
Speaker 3:And if you've probably if you had an injury, I think sometimes also people kind of they're like oh I'm fit now, so I'm going to ignore the basic rehab that I've been given and they probably forget about it for a bit, and then you probably start compensating to make up for it and then that can cause I'm going to ignore the basic rehab that I've been given and they probably forget about it for a bit, and then you probably start compensating to make up for it and then that can cause something else you re-injure or whatever it might be. So there's loads of different variables as to how, why it may be. I think if you're not consistent, that would be a big thing. Age probably plays a small role. Role in it, any new stimulus and then but I also think, probably like work stresses or sleep or nutrition and all of that, like these other pillars that people don't often think about in terms of training, but they are technically training at the same time.
Speaker 2:They're just my unprofessional opinion of the situation for ships is that I don't think you track your muscular load and how much pressure it puts on you at work, and so you don't actually don't understand the spike that work is giving you um now and again, and that is then. You're then not adapting the spike from work to your training, so actually you're you're loading your body too much.
Speaker 1:Then you actually realize I think over time I've overloaded certain things or trained through injuries. Well, not trained through injuries, worked through injuries that I've had, like I worked with a broken toe straight like two days off and I've worked with broken fingers and broken bits and pieces. Strange bad shoulders, because you can't take days off.
Speaker 3:No, and and and it, and it is really hard I think nutrition is is. I think it's been touched on before in the podcast we had someone on for that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know they're really good. Yeah, she was. Yeah, she was right, weren't she?
Speaker 3:yeah, I think it's been touched on before in the podcast. We had someone on for that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know they were really good, yeah, she was a while, weren't she?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think one of the best ones yet, honestly, but as kind of touched on, it's a massive thing and there's more and more stuff coming out. If you're under-fuelling it can cause some quite serious injuries. So there's something called reds which is red bull no, oh, reduce energy deficiency. I'm sure it's that. I've really bulldozed that one. Oh well, um, the nickname is reds. You see a lot more in females than you do in males. What? Because?
Speaker 1:they're like low iron and stuff.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because it can be related to your menstrual cycle as well. But it doesn't mean to say that men don't get it. Men do get it. You see it more in your endurance-style athletes and you often see it in your younger age population than older age population. But you can get it at any point and it's where you're just not fueling to meet your demands, but not only of like just training but like work, particularly in a job like yours, for example. So again, like actually if you've been busy all day and you've actually not really sat down to have lunch, massively, again that can that that can affect, because if you're then not fueling the demands of a really physical job and then you go train on top of that, that can that can cause various different things and, like some, in a lot of injuries are traumatic. It probably in the workplace, like yours, rather than rather than overstress, but you get a low, a lot of like bone issues through, through lack of nutrition, um, and then a lot and then again like muscle repair and recovering quickly so you can put your body back under that load again yeah, well, I can tell you one thing for quite a few number of years, my nutrition wasn't very good yeah, so that that might be another contributing reason why you find yourself injured so much see all that to the youngsters now, to pay attention and do the do the work now eat, eat clean, train clean and look after yourself yeah, simple
Speaker 2:pip. We've got probably two, two things that are two questions, or let's call them things um. First one's a question, second one's the most important thing ever. So first one everyone listening to this podcast is now thinking what can I do differently? Or what is like a golden rule to leave with? And I know there's so much to do with physiotherapy and there's so many things but if you could give one golden rule to stay in injury free I know that it's like a dream world, stay in injury free, but what would it be for? Like an obstacle course racing athlete on the spot Go, we will. We will clip this and it will live forever.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then everyone. No one's allowed to come at me when this doesn't work, by the way. That won't be on the clip.
Speaker 3:I'm going to write this all over the Instagram bit, then. Oh, one, only one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:There's so many though. Well, you've only got one I know this is really hard.
Speaker 2:Um be consistent with your rehab, I think all right, yeah, and I and I like that I can agree with it. Once you, once the injury or the niggle goes away, you're like, ah, I don't need to do that stretch anymore yeah, I don't like that.
Speaker 1:It's horrible.
Speaker 3:I never want to hear that yeah, like my mini add-on is you can't go wrong with getting strong. I know I literally just said at the beginning people are terrifying me with sometimes how they lift um across the whole population, but like that's more of a technique thing. But I think if you get strong, your body is then going to cope with your demands and then it's just consistently getting stronger. Like rehab should be seen as training.
Speaker 1:I love that. That's what I was going to say. What do they say now as well, about the muscles, they say that's what's holding your bones. Now, as well about the skelet, the muscles they say that's, that's what's holding your bones together nowadays, isn't it? They say, your muscles is what is the most important thing, because it's holding the skeleton together. It's hot, it's holding the whole thing. It's not the bones holding the muscle, it's the muscles holding the skeleton. Is this a science moment?
Speaker 3:I heard it somewhere on a podcast yeah, nice, nice, I think it makes sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, yeah it's all proper podcast. Yeah, it's a good it's a good statement.
Speaker 3:I like it it's a true, it's a true one um, I, yeah, you can't, yeah, you can't go wrong with with getting, with getting stronger. People who are injury free, have have minimal weaknesses, often like that. They can cope with the demands of their body. It is asking, is asking of them and it and they find that they're. They can just be more consistent.
Speaker 2:Like I think it just comes down to consistency, whether that's whatever you're doing, you're when you're talking about strength though pip as well, just to caveat that bit of advice as well that you're not talking about like, go out there, be a strong man. Go out there, be. You need to be strong in your bench press. I've known for the years of rehabbing and staying consistent. I've realized that being strong in the most mundane little things has made me injury-free, and what I mean by that is like being strong in, like maybe strengthening my glutes at times, maybe strengthening my calves a little bit more than you used to Like.
Speaker 3:These little movements that strengthen these supporting muscle groups is the most important thing that keeps you injury free a lot of things, of doing things like co-contractions will go go a long way or understanding how to engage your pelvic floor. It's terrifying how many people don't know how to do that, girls, most people can do. We really understand it, boys, you're.
Speaker 1:You guys are terrible, sorry, but it's the one thing that can affect this is one for the guy, so if you want to get this notice, it can affect your erectile function if you've got a bad pelvic floor?
Speaker 3:yeah, we won't clip that one, you've got that sorted um, but like it sounds really silly and everyone's like, well, what am I using it for? But like your lumb, your lumbar pelvis starts for. But like your lumbar pelvis starts working better, if your lumbar pelvis start running better, your legs are gonna gonna work better together. And it almost comes back into what I was saying about co-contractions getting everything working together through a range, through a movement. But, yeah, like you want to be strong in your compound movement, so like your bench press, your squats, your deadlifts, etc. But you want to be doing those under like good technique, like I.
Speaker 3:Like players will come to me and be like I'm really sore. I squatted like 180 kilos and I'm like, okay, your your point. Uh, you look terrible doing it like you've achieved nothing. And now you're in my physio room looking like a muppet because you've hurt yourself and now you're out for three months because you've torn your meniscus. You know, um, that has only happened once. I'm not saying that that's a disaster, but like ego lifting is not the answer. It it's lifting with good technique, um, and and doing consistently. And then, as you said, darren, like it's, the little little accessories of these are like your work-ons basically.
Speaker 2:Yeah, work-ons. I did like that term, work-ons because that keeps that kind of feels like training. It feels like something you it's forever going. It's not like it's not just one thing that's then going to stop.
Speaker 3:It's something you just have to keep working on to make yourself available but rehab should be training, yeah, and the other thing that we do in rugby is that if you're not playing, you can work on your game. Iq, you can kind of do that a little bit. With ocr. You're less looking at tactics of the other team because it's an individual sport, but it's like, actually, what bits of OCR can I still go practice? If you've got a lower limb injury, the chances are you probably still do a rig. Just maybe don't jump off and fly, fly off a rig, you know? Um, just be a bit more sensible about it.
Speaker 2:It's actually a really good sport to be injured in, because I feel like there's loads of different things you can do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, like that.
Speaker 2:There's not many sports where you have the ability to use your upper and lower limbs, um, and get better at the sport, like really I don't know what like isolate them and get better at the sport. I don't see a lot of sports that you could do that with our sport.
Speaker 3:We're always being pulled around and like there's different demands of being better at rigs, better at carries, better at running, whatever it might be. Actually, if you're injured and you can't do it, just see it as a chance to get better at the bit. You can do like focus, or focus on your weakness okay, well, this has been a weakness for a while. You know, I've actually been kind of forced to stop, like use this time well to get on top of it. And then it becomes your superpower, it becomes your strength again and you come back and it's like, oh well, okay, this was a crap. Six weeks, however long it took. But now I'm back and it's no, it's no longer going to be an ongoing niggle. And it's like, oh, I'm kind of bad, but it's kind of there, but I can kind of get away with it. And then it just like lingers in the background and it rebuilds and escalates. And then you're kind of back to square one and you feel like you guys go round and round and round in circles yeah, that's that's.
Speaker 2:That was more than one golden rule, but we're we're. You are going to get one, we're allowed we're allowed it and let's let's go on to the most important important thing. Peep, obviously that was, that was a really good conversation, but no, so this is the. This is the important one. So this is, this is your training card, or your, your guest accountability card, as we like to call them nice can you see it?
Speaker 3:I can see it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for listeners I'm sharing a lovely, lovely rainbow colored accountability corner card yeah, I like what you did there, yeah, so yeah, our um, even though mo isn't here, he's here in spirit and he's done your card for you so I guess, I I know it's quite late, but I want to just quickly chat through.
Speaker 2:We this, this isn't. We've started when we started to do these cards, but then we had a lot of conversation around them and we built up the stats, but I feel like ships. Wouldn't you agree that we're being a bit more, um, like this is this is what we choose and that's it. That's well, mo, is mo's being a bit more of?
Speaker 1:a moses like no well, he is actually doing some work on these now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's doing a good job, yeah, okay nice so we'll go through them, pip, and you can give us some commentary if you agree, or or how you feel about them. So, ships, maybe you want to go for it.
Speaker 1:I'll put you on the speed yeah, I hate it when you do that. Sorry, pip, we put you down for eight, is it? No? Is that 88? No, it's 80, 80 for speed yeah, I think it's 80.
Speaker 3:uh, yeah, fair, I feel like these are all higher than I thought they would be.
Speaker 1:Well, we like you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we like you I get bonus points because I'm liked.
Speaker 2:Always. That's what Mo says, anyway.
Speaker 3:Okay, nice, Okay. Key point for me to take away is remain being nice to the OCR accountability Right Agility. Go on.
Speaker 2:Chips you go for it 70.
Speaker 1:Is that 70 again or 78?
Speaker 2:78. Do I need?
Speaker 1:to make this bigger for you. No, the eight looks like a zero 78 for agility. Now we know that Pip is quite agile. You're quite one of the agile-y people out there, I'd say.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I like the word agile-y.
Speaker 1:Agile-y yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Compromise running. How do you feel on that one? I would have put that lower.
Speaker 3:I would have put that lower than agile-y, but we'll take it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, can't change it now.
Speaker 3:I can't, can I? Well, I can't can I?
Speaker 2:You can't change it, but you've got to live up to it. So that's good pressure for the season, yeah thanks.
Speaker 1:Endurance. I actually haven't seen too much of your endurance but I know you can run for a while.
Speaker 3:I definitely want to. I can keep going. I probably, which is where the compromise running probably would say lower is? I just lose the speed, speed but doesn't everyone just quick, just quicker than others, yeah um, I feel like, yeah, I feel like my speed can drop off quite quickly with my endurance, but I can keep plodding along.
Speaker 1:I just lower the speed. You keep going longer yeah what in win this picture.
Speaker 2:We've got what race is. That's obviously a spark race. Are you doing a beast or an ultra?
Speaker 1:like honest because of the jacket you're wondering.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm assuming a beast I think I'm doing the beast. No, yeah, no, I think. No, I think I am. It was before I joined Rumble. I wasn't part of Rumble at this point. It was one of my first. You look stacked though. I mean I don't know where those puzzles have come from, because they're not there now. I've lost them. I promise you. I don't know where they've come from. Yeah, it was Wales. It was the summer before I joined Wales.
Speaker 2:I understand why you're wearing a hydration pack now.
Speaker 1:if it's Wales, we had a map in there as well. That was horrendous. Some hedge cutters.
Speaker 3:I was also really new to OCR racing and I'm like I don't know what I need, you know?
Speaker 2:it was new to ocr and you did wales, so that that must have been the surrender I love wales.
Speaker 3:I'd happily go back to wales wales was good.
Speaker 1:It was a good course, wasn't it yeah? Really was I beat you there you did yeah, I had a cough I had quite a good race, so I couldn't.
Speaker 3:I think this was. I think this was the beast it's gotta be.
Speaker 2:So there you go.
Speaker 3:Endurance, endurance, yeah there you go, power. I can't jump to save my life, so I don't know where someone's got this from, or throw power's not necessarily just jumping yeah, but I'm not. Explosive power is like explosiveness, like I would not describe myself as that. I probably just use a bit of brute force, so it probably just looks like I have it. I'm definitely I. I'm not.
Speaker 2:No, don't change it, but don't worry, it's not, it's not going to change, but yeah, 79 power, that's that's what you've got, and that's 79 power, that's what you've got, and that's yeah again, that's what you've got to do this year.
Speaker 3:Yeah, nice Work on the power. I'll feed that back.
Speaker 1:Technical. This is probably your best attribute, is it right?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But you're a rumble girl, so your technical abilities have got to be there, aren't they?
Speaker 3:Exactly I would. Yeah Of abilities have got to be there, aren't they? Exactly I would. Yeah, I of all the things that's the bit that I probably would have said is um, my strongest point. I don't know what I'd given myself, but I would have scored that the highest out of everything else that's actually a really high score as well.
Speaker 2:That's a good.
Speaker 1:That's a good score that thanks, I'll take it you did hang on this year as well, didn't you?
Speaker 3:I did and completed you go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that 86 is justified there.
Speaker 3:I didn't complete it the year before and on the last rig they looked at me as if I was mad because I was doing the harder side, because on the longer course they gave us the easier side this year. And I was like no, no, no, I have not flown out here, I have to not do it, I've got unfinished business. Nice, so yeah I'll take that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would have argued that mo would have had to have changed that to be the highest if it wasn't. Yeah, no, no, decent and your strength, 76, yeah I would agree, you've got to be strong? Is it because you're a physiotherapist? What did you just say?
Speaker 3:I've got great relative strength to my body so I've got a very good power to weight ratio my true absolute strength shocking, terrible.
Speaker 1:It's all about power to weight.
Speaker 3:Exactly so. That's why I get away with it. When do you often see me moaning about injuries? Not very often.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, there you go, yeah.
Speaker 3:So I've got good power to weight ratio, um, but like my absolute strength is I can squat my body weight. But that's about it. You know, um, you ain't getting much more out of that no shit ships.
Speaker 2:Do you think mo's like, um, like copped out on the phys, on the special ability? Yeah, fizzing fizzy, fizzy ring, fizzy ring, that could be anything my boss tomorrow when he's like why is the player not fit?
Speaker 3:and I go I don't know. But my special power is fizzy ring and I've got 100.
Speaker 2:So yeah, if that is a word as well fizzy, fizzy ring, fizzy ring yeah, thanks mo, you saved me for my conversation for tomorrow. You can share this card yeah.
Speaker 3:Excellent, I'll take that.
Speaker 2:I'm happy with that, it's a cute card, yeah, so you averaged out at 78. Yeah, nice, nice. People always wonder like why the averages are quite low, but we never take the special ability into account, because obviously, oh, special ability into account, because obviously.
Speaker 1:Oh, is it an average.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's an average of everything.
Speaker 1:Oh, what do you think it was? I thought it was what they all added up to.
Speaker 2:No, that doesn't add up to 78. That would add up to, like I don't know, 600 or something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I did wonder that.
Speaker 3:Anyway, yeah, interesting, as if you didn't cop that this is your podcast doesn't do the card he came up with the idea.
Speaker 1:He doesn't do the maths of it, I don't. I don't do numbers, no you're fair no you're
Speaker 3:happy with that yeah, I'll take it more than happy with that cool.
Speaker 1:Now this has been a really good. I really enjoyed this one. Lots, lots on the old brain there.
Speaker 2:Lots to learn from and I'm sure, all the listeners have many minutes, but oh well no, yeah, sorry, sorry, we kept you so late.
Speaker 2:Um, pip before we, before we head off, like, is there anything else that you? I'm not going to put you on the spot of any golden rules, um, but is there anything else that you would you'd like to say that you haven't touched upon? Or, yeah, anything really. And also, I know that you obviously have a full-time job and everyone does love to contact you, but do you actually take on, like, private clients and things like that, or? Or is that? Or is that the? Uh? There's just a friendly whatsapp message.
Speaker 3:Please help yeah, um, a bit of both. Most my friends tell me I'm terrible at accepting doing private clients. I'm terrible at I think if you're, if we're friends, I'm terrible at accepting money. I'm like you're my friend, I'll help you. You know, if I don't know you very well and you want my help, then I probably will charge. Um, I do take on the odd private client, for sure, but also with my schedule. It's like if you would like me to be your physio, you also have to accept that I will see you at random bizarre times and it can be really infrequent and I can only apologize that. So I don't really advertise it. But if someone really wants my help, they kind of we make it work and.
Speaker 3:I'll. I'll happily see people, that's not a problem. Happy to try and give advice where I can. Sometimes it's quite difficult if I've not seen it, because I can give you a general idea of what I can give you a Google answer. I can't give you an answer specific for you. So yeah, but it's been fun.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me. No, no, no worries at all. And yeah, let us know, if you want, like, how people would contact you and things like. We don't don't want to put that out in the world, if you. If you've already got messages on unread, yeah, you can send me a message, or I'm on instagram.
Speaker 3:I don't have anything. Okay, I don't think clever. Clever technology is not really my friend, so I don't have anything. Clever Technology's not really my friend, so I don't have a website. I'm also terrible on social, so apologies if I ignore you.
Speaker 1:That's the kind of people we like, though.
Speaker 2:We said it we're oddballs and misfits. It's fine, you're in the right crowd.
Speaker 3:Exactly, but I will get back to you. Or if you see me at competition, yeah, you can ask me. Then just don't maybe be offended if you catch me at the height of the season, like I'm really sorry, I can't be a physio right now because occasionally that does happen.
Speaker 1:And I really can't because you have just race to race so even that it just.
Speaker 3:There are certain points within our season, like january, february, june and july no, july and august. We're just, we're very busy and we do a lot, and then I'm like it's downtime. I'm not here to be a physio yeah so I do struggle at times, but um, yeah, just don't be offended, it's nothing to do with you be, my brain is physioed out it. It's dropped from 100 to zero, as I would say nice, uh, pip, it's been absolute pleasure.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much. That was, yeah, super intriguing and I'm sure listeners will enjoy that yeah, thank you so much yeah, really good to have you hopefully I've not waffled on about too much garbage no, not at all not as waffly as we are right, suppose, to the next one we'll probably be talking soon. Be talking about the Nuts for EK coming up and Tartan Warrior.
Speaker 1:We will indeed. Yeah, stay tuned.
Speaker 2:All right, yeah, speak to you later. See you later, everyone. Bye, bye, bye. Thanks for watching guys.
