Accountability Corner
Embark on an adventure with Darren, Morgan, and Chris, the dynamic trio steering the ship at "Accountability Corner." As passionate OCR enthusiasts, they're on a mission to share their expertise and enthusiasm for obstacle course racing with the world. From sharing insider tips on overcoming training plateaus to demystifying the complexities of race registration and gear selection, no stone is left unturned. Whether you're a seasoned competitor hungry for fresh perspectives or a newcomer eager to dip your toes into the muddy waters of OCR, these hosts are here to guide you every step of the way. Join them as they peel back the curtain on the electrifying world of OCR, revealing stories of triumph, camaraderie, and boundless adventure.
Don't miss out – tune in and discover why OCR is capturing hearts and minds around the globe!
Accountability Corner
#50: Run Smart, Not Hard
Morgan, Chris and Darren discuss how mental relaxation has unexpectedly led to improved race performances in their OCR careers. They explore why being less focused on results and more present in the training process can be transformative for athletes.
• Relaxed racing mindset produces better results than forcing performance
• Mo's shift from pressure-filled racing to enjoying training has improved her competitive outcomes
• Mental calmness during races allows for better tactical decisions and obstacle execution
• UK racers tend to start races too aggressively compared to more strategically measured European competitors
• World Championships course in Sweden alternates between technical woodland and flat pathways
• Appropriate shoe selection depends on terrain and weather conditions - versatile trail shoes recommended
• Training philosophy evolution: master obstacles first, focus on running fitness, then combine both elements
• Experimenting with different sports and movement patterns may prevent injuries and enhance OCR performance
This is our classic unstructured format where we dive deep into OCR topics without a set agenda - exactly what started the Accountability Corner journey!
Welcome to the Accountability Corner, where we talk about everything obstacle course racing, from staying disciplined in training, affording the sport, signing up for your first race and, more importantly, how the sport is growing around the world, with your hosts Morgan Maxwell, chris Shipley and Darren Martin.
Speaker 2:I'm brave, this is an episode just with the three of us and brave, this is an episode just with the three of us. Nice, nice, non-structured accountability corner episode. I don't know if you want that to be the intro or do you want to do a proper intro? Mo Mo, you two have been all over the place on different podcasts now so you can chat a bit more.
Speaker 3:Or people will be bored of you. I just just feel like this episode. We have not got a title right now, but there'll be a title from the episode because we're going to go deep on loads of things.
Speaker 2:I don't know what that means, we don't know what that means, but I'm ready are you trying to tell people sit back, relax, enjoy the long run and enjoy just listening to this in the car or a journey? We don't know where we're going with it. It could go anywhere.
Speaker 1:We're going on a journey ourselves, a journey into the depths of us again. No guests, no topic, no structure, no rules, Just you, me and the highway.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, we're going. We don't need roads. What have you two been up to? Ships? Let me into your life, Life of injury, a life of getting married soon, a life of been to Sweden. Had the best time of his life, met a best friend called Gus.
Speaker 1:Big up Gus, big up Gus. Big up Gus. How's life? Life's been good. We're just ticking by, not really focusing too much on anything specifically just trying to get better. So yeah, just having a bit of fun, enjoying stuff, annoyingly still wanting to feel like I'm racing, but having to keep reminding myself that that's not at priority. So yeah, that was good.
Speaker 2:Mo. We know you've been on who's Hot, mo. Is that the first time you've been on who's Hot?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm surprised I was allowed.
Speaker 2:Good day.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I feel like I was being blocked for a while. So to get the all clear was like oh, someone's shipley must have been like whispering into their ears, saying yeah I had to put a few few strings on that.
Speaker 1:One put a few strings. I haven't got many strings to pull, but I pulled a couple of strings is that who's hot episode out?
Speaker 3:yeah on patreon patreon is.
Speaker 2:I've listened to your dulcet tones on patreon. I paid 250 for it, thanks as should everyone else? Yeah, it should do. Yeah, it only supports the community and getting getting more voices out there about ocr. So mo come on, open up a little bit more. How, how, how's the last few weeks been for you?
Speaker 3:uh yeah, training's going really well. I'm in quite a good place. Fitness is feeling good. I'm trying just not to like overdo it, because I'm a bit scared now that I'm getting too sharp. So I'm like thinking of ways to kind of settle back because I don't want to, yeah, like get ill or injure myself or really mess myself up. So I'm actually probably the nerves like the most nervous I've been about training, because every time I train I'm like, oh, was that a bit too much?
Speaker 3:but I feel fine, I feel good I've seen a lot of you racing rather than training lately yeah, I have also had a lot of racing, which has been good, but it's been fast, so I'm just trying to recover, but I'm enjoying it. It's fun. Road racing is fun. It's so cheap.
Speaker 2:To do all that road racing mode, do you have to be a part of a club, or can you just turn up to those races?
Speaker 3:So I've been doing a lot of a south yorkshire road league, which you have to be part of a club and it has to be a south yorkshire club, so there's only so many clubs in it. Um, so yeah, but there is loads of like local races where you don't have to be affiliated but it is cheaper to be, because if you've got an english athletics membership it's so cheap for most of the things Like a British obstacle sports membership. Yes, just like a British obstacle sports membership. So hopefully in the future that will give us some discounts.
Speaker 2:It would do. I'm sure it would work like that in the future.
Speaker 1:You might have to cut this bit, but you can actually still use your English athletics membership number to get cheaper price races, even if you haven't renewed your membership no, don't cut that. That's good intel for people yeah, I know, but then someone's gonna probably dob me in that's good.
Speaker 2:Any publicity is good publicity. It's fine we'll take it we'll take it. They'll be like in the athletics world. They'll be like this podcast called accountability corner started giving out bad advice about using, not renewing, memberships, and then they start talking about us. Then they get to the who, the what, the why, and then they'd be like, oh, these guys are actually really interesting.
Speaker 3:And if British athletics is listening, I do have a membership, so don't revoke any of my race times or ban me.
Speaker 1:And just for the record, I only found out on one race, because I've only done one race where I've needed to do it.
Speaker 3:If anything, you're helping them because you've found a flaw in their system.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm like the guy right the bug, the FBI employee who used to be a former hacker and now I'm hacking for the FBI.
Speaker 2:There you go. Exactly anonymous mo with, with your racing and being a part of the athletics club it's. It does seem like you're racing more than training what?
Speaker 3:uh, well, because our, so this league is like, for it's every Wednesday night. Well, not every, it's every other Wednesday, and it started in April and it finishes. Our next one is the Wednesday after the British champs, which is well, british champs this weekend, so next Wednesday, so this podcast won't. I would have already raced by then, but yeah.
Speaker 2:Depends. When is this going out?
Speaker 3:Well, two weeks from the British Champs, I guess. So I've already won the British Champs, okay, and I've probably also done well in the league. I think I'm sitting joint second or third in the South Yorkshire League at the minute.
Speaker 2:Very impressive.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so hopefully by this time I've come second.
Speaker 2:How's your recovery?
Speaker 3:That's been the hardest balance, but like I've just been easy runs and then just listening to my body, I mean I think I was just saying to you guys offline because I'm not really this year, I'm just using it as a bit of a training year. I think I'm not. British Champs is my a race and obviously that is this the weekend coming, and then after that I've got nothing that I really care about. I've got the Spartan series I want to do well in, but I'm just going to kind of train through most of them and then the goal is probably going to be to try and really peak for Havar, the sprint champs. But yeah, so at the minute I'm just kind of making sure if I need to recover I recover. So I take days off when I need to and run easy when I need to, but yeah, that's super interesting.
Speaker 2:We need to talk about this more. What you're focusing on, mo, because I think it is interesting.
Speaker 3:You're refining yourself as an athlete in the sport yeah, I've switched the focus a bit and it's also just, I think last year I put a lot of pressure on myself through racing in europe and racing worlds and things, and I don't think I think it just hindered my season and not made me not want to train. But actually at the minute I'm really enjoying training, which for like I've never done so, I'm kind of just leaning into that rather than leaning into the race aspect it's nice when you're, when you're relaxed and enjoying stuff.
Speaker 1:It's funny how you just seem to get a better fitness, and every time you race because you are relaxed or you're enjoying stuff, the old results seem to get a little bit better as well, don't they?
Speaker 3:yeah, I think it just seems like everything's clicking, like it's not, but nothing's forced was last year.
Speaker 2:It felt like I was trying to force everything, yeah, and in doing so I was just like shooting myself in the foot we need to talk about it more as well, like the mental fatigue or the mental preparedness you need to be to just be relaxed. There's nothing more. There's nothing better than doing like a really good hard session when you're just relaxed in the mind, like you can really flow. And it's the same with racing, isn't it?
Speaker 1:even more so in obstacle racing, because I think you do need to be a bit more relaxed than you do on, say, like a road race or something where you can just go out a bit more hot in an obstacle race yeah, in an obstacle race, I think you do have to be a bit more relaxed, just go into it, think, ah, you know.
Speaker 1:I mean, I know it works a bit differently, because if you put loads of training in you're relaxed, because you're confident. But if you're just relaxed anyway, it's kind of the same thing. It kind of gives you that, oh well, I don't really mind about the result.
Speaker 2:But then all of a sudden you're doing something and all right, yeah, you might be like not flat out top of the class or first and across the line, but you're going to be doing better than you presume, presume yeah, you mo said, you said it before titan warriors, we but I think we all said it to each other like just go out there and, um, as long as you the good thing about obstacle course racing, it is an individual sport of some regard like you're just out there to be the best person you can be and like as long as you go out, then you've tried hard and had fun. What else can you actually physically do?
Speaker 3:I think that is the caveat as well. When we say relaxed, we're still working hard, it's not necessarily I'm relaxed, I'm taking it easy. We are still racing hard and training hard and, like my training at the minute, I'm saying everything's nice and relaxed, but I'm still when I'm training, I'm training hard or training smart, but yeah, so it's relaxed in a sense of mentally relaxed, not maybe physically, yeah, yeah it's like it's uh, it's a bit of an interesting one, but it's yeah, it's trying to get the mind almost at ease, but then still attack your sessions and kind of have fun with hurting yourself a little bit and kind of have fun with hurting yourself a little bit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I suppose because there's no, there's no, um, you're not. When you're doing that workout, you're not. Like the end goal isn't I need to be, I need to get fitter for this race. It's like I'm just doing this workout to work hard. So you know, I'm not trying to win the race, I'm trying to just work hard because I'm doing a working hard workout.
Speaker 3:It's like just pushing a little bit hard because it's fun yeah, and it's exploring things that maybe you might not, because normally you'd be like, oh well, I've got a race, so I don't really want to do that, whereas now it's kind of like, well, it doesn't matter, because I can just do what I want you're finding, then, when you're doing those workouts because I'm finding this at the moment because you're going into them not caring too much, right?
Speaker 1:Hang on a minute, where was I going with this? When you do the workout when you're not tired or tired, you actually back off when you are needing to recover, whereas if you're like going into it trying to do the workout and you're still tired, you try and do the workout, but if you know you're tired, you pull back and recover from it because you know you don't have to do the workout.
Speaker 2:I'll give you an example.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Elaborate.
Speaker 2:I didn't understand that riddle. Riddle me this elaborate. I didn't, I didn't understand that riddle, riddle, you're tired.
Speaker 1:You're not tired, but you might be tired. What am I postbox? But last week, when after me, and that after after, um, uh, tough viking I was meant to do scheduled on my um plan that I usually do, I was going to do five by five mile. But I did one by five mile and was like, oh, hang on a minute, I am not ready for doing five by five mile because I'm still fatigued from the race. So then I just went right, well, I'm not, I'm not ready for that workout, I'll just do a recovery run and recover some more. And it didn't matter. So that, because you're not in that mind, you get ready for recovery.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I get what you're saying. You, you, you need to be. I sometimes go into a workout thinking I need to absolutely smash this workout to be better at OCR, and that's probably the wrong mindset. At times I need to be going in relaxed into a workout saying I'm going to push this to my limits of physically what I'm able to be, to do today, just to push the possibilities of how fit I can be as a person. That's kind of like I don't know the mindset maybe to change, because if you do it that way ships you do go into it thinking, okay, maybe I can pull back a little bit because this is just how much I can give today. It's not, it's not the max.
Speaker 3:I'm not going to push over my limits and hurt myself just because I want to be better obstacle course racing in six months time yeah, see, I think I've actually gone the other way, where it's like before I could because, again, like I said, I didn't really enjoy training. I can use the excuse of I've got a race coming up to pull back when maybe I didn't need to, whereas now I'm like I'm not really feeling it today, but then because I don't really care how, I feel I'm actually having better workouts and I'm pushing maybe more than I would normally.
Speaker 2:So I'm almost the opposite so I'm almost the opposite.
Speaker 2:Do you think? With experience I kind of understand how really experienced athletes choose to go unscripted and just go with intuitive training, like how they're feeling because they've got had so much experience of like how their body reacts. And now I I feel that myself I don't know if you two are feeling sort of similar to that like I could probably just have like a bucket full of like picking different quality workouts and just choose it as I go, because I just know how my body is well, you're only doing them quality ones on specific days anyway.
Speaker 1:So if you're not ready on that specific day, you just move it to a day when it you are ready for it yeah because we know how we feel we're good with our feelings yeah, the most.
Speaker 2:How, how's your, how's your training and everything being to, how was it before born survivor. Because obviously, congratulations for the win. That was a huge win for you, especially against some like the best well, best in the uk considering. You can start considering yourself best in the uk, especially after this weekend yeah after you win british champs yeah, no, I mean training wise.
Speaker 3:It was like I'm still scripted. So dave has still got me on a plan. I am and he probably doesn't know this too much but I am kind of just using the plan as a template and then working around it and I'm pretty good with my own body and I know what I'm doing. It's also because I've had a lot of them with work. I've been quite busy, so sometimes I just can't physically fit in what's on my plan, so I do have to chop and change, um, but yeah, so I'm still training to some form of structure. I think it's just. I think it meant mentally, I'm just in a better place. I think that's it. That's the only thing I can really say.
Speaker 2:That's different nice elaborate on that. What do you mean by in your mentally in a better place? I just'd just like to say, relaxed.
Speaker 3:It's not like I don't feel any pressure. I feel like before Born Survivor. I felt nervous, but it wasn't like I need to go out and prove a point. It was actually my running's good at the minute. Let's just see what happens.
Speaker 3:And then it kind of, rather than me trying to force staying with Dan and Tom, I kind of just let it naturally happen if that makes sense, and I stayed patient and I think then that also helped my obstacles because I wasn't rushing things and I was just like trying to be smooth and attacking things when I needed to, and I think that's what my body's always been capable of. But I think sometimes I'm just a bit aggressive and I think, oh, I just need to win, whereas it's now kind of like, oh, I can win this and I want to win this, and don't get me wrong, I'm still very competitive but it's almost like let's just assess the situation a little bit more. Still go out hot, still go and try and stay with them. But yeah, just. But also, if you blow up, you blow up like it doesn't matter it sounds like you've matured yeah, wow, who would have thought?
Speaker 2:don't get too far. Ships come on.
Speaker 3:no, and don't get me wrong, I still wanted to win, like it's I don't know if that sounds quite like Lafarge and quite like oh, I just didn't really care, but it was like I still had that desire to win.
Speaker 1:I'm still very competitive and I'm still going to try and win the race. There's wanting to win and knowing how to win, yeah.
Speaker 2:You're making sensible choices, mo. You're not letting the monkey make the choice. Yeah, taking a bit of control over that monkey. Exactly you're it's, maybe. How have you learned that is that being around other people in like that are better than you in the?
Speaker 3:track generally. Yes, I think it's not even the like. The training as well, it is. All these races I'm doing because, because you'll be running next to guys that I know I physically can't keep up with, so it's very humbling, but also then it just shows you what you can do. Yeah, it's pushing me along and because I'm still I'm racing these guys and having good results. I think that gives you confidence to know that you can just sit behind or like I don't know, it's just. It's just something's changed. I don't know what it is, but something's changed you control your own race.
Speaker 2:You. You're the only person that is in control of your race. But you've got to stay in a controlled mindset in that race. You can't can't go out like hot and react. You can't react fast. You need to just stay in a controlled mindset in that race. You can't can't go out like hot and react. You can't react fast. You need to just stay in a controlled mindset in a race and you have to have the ability to just feel that you are controlling everything you do. There's no one else dictating it. And that's the hardest thing in obstacle course racing, because you feel like, oh, someone behind me, they're dictating my pace, like, no, no, ignore that, ignore the noise. I'm controlling this. This is me calm, relaxed and racing to the best I can do there's limitations and you need to know them it's.
Speaker 2:It was actually difficult at sweden ships that we haven't been. We don't tend to have environments where there's so many people around us.
Speaker 1:In the uk, yes, there's a lot of people racing, but nothing like um, nothing like in sweden and tough biking yeah, I think you said at one point you know you had that, that, that period of time where you was on your own. For what? Because in in the uk you usually have a period of time in a race where you'll be running and it'll feel like you're alone and that lasts. That can last a little bit longer in the uk, but in sweden that lasted for about a minute yeah yeah, because all of a sudden there was people around.
Speaker 1:There was all the way through to probably 100 places. You were battling for a position in that perspective place yeah.
Speaker 2:So, chips, how was your? How was your race? That was like your, I'd say. You're in a better place with your injuries and you did you perform really well. How did that race go for you?
Speaker 1:it went, went, yeah, better than I thought it did. Uh, the results are wrong, though. Uh, still, uh, but no, it was good. Um, yeah, I just, I feel like I'm do you know what? Like most I, I actually feel fitter than I actually thought I was, because I perform better. All right, my speed endurance is pants, but the amount of volume I've done is very low anyway, so my speed endurance isn't going to be high. But overall, because I haven't been overexerting myself when it came to actually racing, I was able to put one foot in front of the other and run better than I thought I did. I was blowing out towards the end of it and that was only an 8k race, so I haven't got that speed endurance over time, but yeah, I think it's feeling good at the moment what's your contributing factors to that?
Speaker 2:what's making you feel good?
Speaker 1:well, I haven't stopped training. So consistency, yeah, I've been consistent still. Um, it just hasn't been the same as what it once was and I've had to adapt. So I've been doing a lot more strength work, trying to get rid of this poxy sciatic and stuff, um, so I'm adapting a lot. I've been on the bike a lot more because running is not so good for the toe, but I've still been doing stuff and I've just been enjoying it. So I'm actually still fit.
Speaker 3:I want to ask you, dan, how did you? Because obviously you have quite a good race out there from what I've seen, but how did it feel being around so many people? Did you find it easy to get into a race, or was it? Did you find it easier to switch off?
Speaker 1:Ask him how his legs felt. First. How did your legs feel?
Speaker 2:I want all listeners to take a big learning from me. Don't do a hard rumble session two days before a big race that you want to perform in Okay, and then do something absolutely new that you haven't done strength wise in a while and then have the worst Doms. That was no excuse but that was stupid, the stupidest thing I've ever done. I just want our listeners to know.
Speaker 1:Right, as soon as me and Darren met at the airport, he was walking up the stairs and he's like I did a really stupid thing. I did this workout and he told me what you did these lunges and that and he was like my legs are so heavy it.
Speaker 2:It wasn't the I'm, I'm, I'm not. I want to play this up even more because it wasn't the Doms where you know you have a little bit. It's the Doms where you know, when you get off a chair and you're like, it takes you a while to get up. Yeah, that's stupid. So, yeah, I did a four-mile warm-up, we did a four-mile warm-up to try and get rid of the Doms, and good job. We had a little spa in the hotel, so that was nice. I had a little sauna and jacuzzi, so that helped a little bit, but no, nothing was going to get rid of them. But yeah, going back to the race, there was my.
Speaker 2:My main aim for sweden was just just to see where my fitness currently is, um and good, and I got to see where it is with heavy legs, uh. So it was weird being around so many people. We don't tend to start a start line where, literally that you're side by side, you are shoulder to shoulder, for it was shoulder to shoulder for at least two miles of the race until it started to thin out a little bit more. But what I have been practicing there, you know, we did the episode about inner voice and Mo. We did it a few, like last year, and we used to go to park runs when we used the episode about inner voice and mo. We did it for you, like last year, and we used to go to park runs when we used to think right, we're just going to stick to a pace and this is, and we're just going to work our way through the field. We're going to try to just be in control the whole way and just let our fitness carry us, rather than my mind try and push me too far. And that's exactly how I've been practicing the last few races of just trying to race it with experience, having an understanding of how fit I currently am and how how much I'm capable of, and not pushing beyond that, and then trying to finish strong.
Speaker 2:That sounds like you've matured as well a little bit. It's just race strategy you, you try, you try and different things all the time. But my main thing I said I think I even said it on this book I want to finish stronger. I need to finish races stronger, even though I've got. I've got everything. I've got the fast start. Now I've got the, the endurance of the middle. It was the finishing strong that I wasn't doing and I think that was because I was. I wasn't racing as sensible in the middle or controlling or staying calm in certain elements. So, yeah, the race went really well. I practiced every part of that and I finished really strong.
Speaker 3:And I think with you as well, that was one of your strengths. But if you think, I think back to when I used to think about you as an athlete and you were always a very good closer and you could mop up the field. But then I think you went for a stage where you wanted to be competitive, so you were trying to up the pace a little bit and you I think it's good you went through that, because now you that's probably helps your fitness and probably helps you learn also what them paces feel like, so that now you can put them both together and I think actually that's probably for you that's probably one of the best ways to race you need to find your unique way that you race, that that helps you build confidence during that race as well.
Speaker 2:You don't want to do something that is competitive but also, for your mind, makes you feel weak in a race or makes you feel deflated. Don't do something that contradicts how you personally feel. Positivity. That's that's just like. That's not mentally inducing for a race. You shouldn't do that. So, yeah, you're right, but yeah, fair few years I wanted to be seen on the start line and I did it as spartan elite and I used to race so hot off the start line and die. That happened quite a lot in few Spartan races. But now you just need to. It's like an attribute.
Speaker 1:There's a start, middle and end to an obstacle course race or fitness and you just need to know how you can do well at all of them. It's like, though, right. Have you ever seen the test of where?
Speaker 2:they do the bottle, picking up and putting the bottles away, yeah, yeah, when you start.
Speaker 1:So the hardest part and then, yeah, exactly, and the hardest always finishes first so that contradicts what I'm saying, then you're saying surely that's the opposite does it?
Speaker 3:I thought it, I thought it or could you be doing the hard, the hard start?
Speaker 1:first unless you say that you're playing the long game no, because it it's playing it smart, because they start knowing that they need to go off and do the harder part first, not necessarily going faster, but taking the harder steps to know that they're doing the bits. That's further away, and then at the end they've got the resources to actually finish strong and first okay, so I can.
Speaker 2:I'll keep going with that idea ships because I like the ego.
Speaker 1:So the hardest thing about obstacle course racing is is whole is actually holding back a little bit in the beginning yeah, and not going to take the first bottle that's right in front of you, because if you take that first bottle, you're going too fast. Yeah, and at the end you'll be going further away because that bottle is further away at the end.
Speaker 3:Yeah, made loads of sense that yeah, yeah, really and you know what actually you say about fast starts in the uk and we've just well, like I say, we've just had the british champs when this episode goes out, so we'll see how that goes. But linking it back to born survivor as well, I thought that was going to be a really fast start because you had me, tom, dan, j was there, finn, who always takes it out hard and we were all lining up the start line. I thought this is going to go out hot, but I actually think, having that many quick people in the race but that was kind of the depth it kind of dwindled after that and I think we all thought it was going to be hard, so it actually seemed a bit slower and I think that was the best thing that happened to that race, because no one. For me, the pace never felt like it got out of control and that was the best feeling in the world, because normally an OCR race, especially a Spartan, you go out so hot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, spartans definitely get out of control. Do you think that was because they're all? You're all not admitting it? But if you actually opened up and you know nice and emotional on the start line that you're all pretty nervous seeing each other for the first time, what?
Speaker 3:as in, we were nervous at Born Survivor yeah yeah, uh, potentially, or I think it might be something to do with the fact that there wasn't loads of people there. So, you've seen, you're almost like everyone that's there. We knew we were going to have a good race, but everyone was kind of yeah, maybe nerves, just judging the first move. And then who was going to make that first move?
Speaker 2:yeah, and it never really happened I did wonder that the switchbacks did look like everyone was in the in control.
Speaker 3:No one was properly putting on the gas at the beginning I mean even finn, like didn't storm ahead yeah, but finn's in a learning zone right now from the 3k.
Speaker 2:He stormed too far ahead on that yeah the thing is at that rate as well.
Speaker 1:You've all done it before as well, so you've all got experience of the course. So you all probably know deep down inside where your sort of limitations are and how to judge, how to start that race, and that's probably just the best way to start it and everyone knew that yeah, I mean I wouldn't want to go out any hotter because of them hills as well, but yeah, just interesting.
Speaker 2:It didn't go out that hot in Sweden either. You would think that you've got the likes of Frank, you've got the likes of Martin Backstrom, you've got Gustav, Like that would go hot, really hot, like flat out. That wasn't either. Ships, was it. I was a little bit further back than you.
Speaker 1:Okay, it was flat out. That wasn't neither ships, was it? I was a little bit further back than you, okay it was, it was, it was, it went out.
Speaker 2:Hot for me okay.
Speaker 3:It doesn't necessarily surprise me, though, because I think the europeans have learned the race strategy a long time ago and then now they're just perfecting it. I think in the uk we're still a bit raw and a bit everyone's fighting for that kind of alpha spot and it feels very like egotistical, whereas I think the europeans are just generally smarter well, and the depths there?
Speaker 1:because the depth? So far, I think everyone knows their own limitations because, literally, in their own like area, or who they're racing against, that's who they're racing against.
Speaker 2:So you have to know exactly where you're running yeah, and, and you just give us an example of it, maybe that's that's what happened at born survivor. The depth was there, yeah, but there was a good depth. I know there was only. I know there's five, six races there, mo, but that it was all the top races. Yeah, it was yeah is it for the male races? Sorry, I know that there is. Obviously the female races had depth as well, but this was the bar russell and some, maybe one or two others like myself.
Speaker 3:Um, there was, uh, there was depth there yeah, there was who that who needed to be there was there. You could throw in names that maybe wouldn't have made the podium but would have had a good fight in the mix. But all the podium uk contenders, apart from russell maybe was there and you I'll put you in there thanks, cheers and ships when he's.
Speaker 2:When he's there, don't put me in there, I can't even do that yet.
Speaker 1:Don't give me the pity, sorry, I'm not there.
Speaker 2:I'm by myself At the minute. My place in the UK is this little abyss. I don't even know where to call myself at the minute.
Speaker 3:I always end up by myself running alone. Yeah, you've got a few people around you.
Speaker 2:You've been having some battles with Ferg, weren't you? Yeah, ferg, ferg would be always battling with me, I think.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there's a couple of others Ships when he's back.
Speaker 1:When I'm fit again, when he gets off his walking stick.
Speaker 3:How was the? I know you mentioned the women's. Just to touch on, did you manage to watch any of the women's races? I guess you were racing.
Speaker 2:I was basically running with the winner oh really what was that like?
Speaker 2:oh god, she was rapid in and out of obstacles, but it is. I know, I know this sounds stupid, because obviously I shouldn't be comparing myself to the, the best elite female, but obviously we do, because as an age group athlete who also wants to got ambitions to be elite, you do need to be beating the the best in the world, for when it comes to elite women like that, that's what needs to happen and it was nice to know that I was racing side by side by side with her at certain stages. But she, her running just. Obviously I was always going to be. I was always pushing better on the running. She was just. She was rapid in and out, in and out of obstacles, though, like because I could see it, who beat, who did she beat?
Speaker 3:her name yuri yuri.
Speaker 2:Uh oh, I beat her in the end because there was a. There was quite a lot of running at the end and I was able to go past, but honestly, she kept catching up with me through the obstacles I think the women seem to always.
Speaker 3:The reason I was gonna go to that as well is because a lot of times when I watch the women's race, they just seem to be smarter and I wondered if that was an ego thing, like in the uk the women, I know again, the depth's not always there in the uk, but when there is depth there they just all seem to race smarter yeah, and chips you.
Speaker 2:It was quite interesting because I raced with, obviously, I saw the elite female. Um, that was the winner, but you was racing with, well, a guest on our uh, guest, yeah, guest, guest on the other. The sprint finish, didn't you?
Speaker 1:uh, no, siri got to the the finish line a little bit before me but throughout most, most of the race, up until I started to die because I haven't got that endurance we were actually having a really good battle. It was really good. I can vouch that her score on the crawl because she can crawl fast, super fast. You know what, when I saw it in front of me I was like jeez, that was pretty quick.
Speaker 3:You see it on social media. You never know exactly what it's going to be like. You're like, oh it looks quick, but anything can look quick on camera.
Speaker 1:He took so much time out of me on that first crawl I was like jeez, I had to really do something to try and catch back up.
Speaker 2:Do you think we should have Siri and James Burton have a crawl off? Siri would kick his butt. I think Siri wins Because Burton is like a little bit of a spider.
Speaker 1:No, honestly, I've seen Burton a few times on crawls. Nothing, nowhere near.
Speaker 3:He is the best crawler I've seen in the UK Him and possibly Das, but I don't know if Das gets away with it because of his height, so I would pay just to see it he's gone.
Speaker 1:He's crawled away. He's gone. Darren has left the building. He's crawled.
Speaker 3:He's setting up that race. He's gone. I wonder if I can get Siri's crawl time.
Speaker 2:I'm looking after the dog and it was going crazy. I don't know the signs. What does the dog want?
Speaker 1:just food love plenty of food it's all we all want food and love.
Speaker 2:No, I haven't got a clue what do you reckon on the terrain, on the sweden darren well, should we go into a bit of a bit of a topic to give people a bit of a?
Speaker 1:well, I think people probably want to know about that because obviously the course is going to be where the world championships is going to be in september. So it was a because obviously that's the reason we went out there, as another reason is for a bit of a recon to see what the course was going to be like.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we find in our top.
Speaker 3:I've got some questions actually about this. Go on, then Hit us Fire away Well, from what I could see. Now, I don't know about you guys, but I just had this misunderstanding that it was going to be more of like a city-based course, and then everything I've seen it looks quite steep and technical. Yeah, what's the deal with that? That's?
Speaker 1:what I want to know. Put it this way you can't ride a bike all right best.
Speaker 2:Let's get the best bit of advice out the way first. Sweden is made for renting a bike, and bikes are so easy. Download an app called next bike and literally scan it. You're out, you're away and you get everywhere. Don't need a car, just ride a bike everywhere, don't need to hire a car?
Speaker 1:no, not even to get from the airport even me and 20 minutes so easy. So, on logistical perspective, you don't need a car, you don't need that's basically it. Really you can do public, you could do public transport the whole time, so you can save a hell of a lot of money. It was super easy to get from the airport to the city. It was super easy to get around the city. The city's super clean, the city's super nice. Yeah, sweden's good, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you're right, mo, you would think it was a city-based course, but this park Slottskagen, slottskagen, somethingagen, slots, something, slot skagen is right in the middle of gothenburg or at the side, like left side of it, and it is huge. It has a nature park in there, penguins. It's kind of like richmond park in london, but with much more hills, much more technical terrain. It has a ski hill in the middle of it for ski jumping in the winter, which is crazy. It has a? Um, loads of different casts dotted around it, which is a mate and the really nice cast, and then it has loads of different? Um, frisbee, what was it called? Is it called extreme frisbee, frisbee golf, frisbee golf, that's it. Frisbee golf bits around it. It has loads of different parks. It is awesome. It has otters, it has penguins, has everything, so does that.
Speaker 1:And then it has really flat lake, really flat paths, and then it goes into super hilly, technical terrain which, very surprised, was there yeah, the technical terrain was something that we we didn't really we knew there was going to be, some sort of like what it's like when you go off the path at a normal park.
Speaker 1:But we didn't realize, because I suppose gothenburg's quite stony, I say rocky bit like, a bit like New York, where it's like built on the, I suppose it's like a granite or something or some type of rock and it's off that. But then you've got like trees and things, so the trees are around that rocky sort of thing, so you've got rocks that go down, but then single tracks but then obviously, because it's in a park, it goes back onto like path, paths, and then you go back into that and then they have fields where they put obstacles. Obviously there's it's a big sporting area, so they've got like volleyball areas where they put some of the obstacles which was on sand and then you've got like a little lakey bit that's there and they even at World Championships it's going to be over a little bit of the other side where they've got the sports centre which has the track, so even more to play with.
Speaker 3:This sounds like the best park I've ever heard of.
Speaker 2:Well, we're trying to convince you to go. That's the reason we did say when we were there that you at the minute, with your fitness, would be incredible at this course. The reason being is that you get the technical terrain in this short, sharp hills and then you're not back to like flat gravel, you're back to flat paths where you can really send it and put some time down and you're back for a good amount of time. You usually 500 to 800 meters of paths and then back into technical terrain for another 800 meters to a k. Then you're back in.
Speaker 2:So varied, yeah, so very, but it's very it's like one end of the scale to the other and that's kind of really a really good thing to find the most well-rounded obstacle course racer yeah, it wasn't continuous.
Speaker 1:You didn't have any like continuous hills that went on for like minutes over, over, end on end. It was like it was almost like it was interval based on different terrain on terrain. Yeah, so like I was like a couple of minutes on this terrain, couple of minutes on that terrain, couple of minutes on this terrain, couple of minutes on that terrain and there was a lot.
Speaker 2:You had to be good at descending hills that are about 10 to 20 seconds like a descent. But you know as well as we know that 10 to 20 seconds descent on a hill you could actually make time, if you're a good descender, like you really could on that sort of terrain. You had hills that lasted probably about a minute to to to four minutes, one of them um. So you know, if you're a very decent hill runner you're going to make time there. And then you've got paths that are, like I say, about 800 meters flat and you know full well if you're a very good flat runner you're going to make time there. And then you had in and out of the obstacles are always going to change for the world championships, but suspect they're probably going to be the same similar sort of obstacles. They're very they're technical to some regard but they're very easy to float in and out of them back to um your your full speed.
Speaker 1:I have been thinking about the obstacles, because obviously it's a tough viking event that one so tough viking is going to be one of the main proprietors of the obstacles. But then don't forget, obviously, obviously, that in in sweden they have other race brands, so you're going to probably find some of that taurus trophy. May or may not bring some type of obstacle or obstacle style there as well, because they're quite a big hitter in, isn't he the race director exactly so he's gonna bring something.
Speaker 1:Exactly this is what I'm thinking. So you, I think you're going to end up with these, because I think tough viking obstacles were pretty flowy, nice and basic. But also the the what brand was it? I was just saying red, red Bull Tour's Trophy sorry. Yeah, Tour's Trophy obstacles. They're still flowy, but they're a little bit more on the technical side. So I do feel as if it might even increase the balance of how the obstacles are.
Speaker 2:Did we describe that well, Mo? Does that make sense to you?
Speaker 3:Definitely selling it. I think anyone listening should be sold. I was sold when you said coffee, coffee was good.
Speaker 2:Oh, the cinnamon, the cinnamon bun. Yeah, cinnamon buns are nice. Share that between friends. That was good. Yeah, I would say it was a really great course. It reminded me of, like it is, uk woodland. That is like what it's like. But you, if you're thinking, how do I adapt my training for this? Now it's, you need to be good at um short, sharp hills that last from 60 seconds to maybe three minutes max nothing more than three minutes hill, which you could probably find anywhere and then you need to be good at descending 20 to 30 seconds and then you need to be good at going back into a fast, flat run running. So I would say you need to be picking woodland where you're doing your tempos in, not just like on the path. You need to be good at that technical train especially if you'd say there was a lot of um.
Speaker 2:Some of the descents were very root rooted, weren't they right like yeah, you had like roots all over the place personally, I would go try and look out for mountain bike parks.
Speaker 1:Mountain bike parks have probably got the best style of this terrain. You're going to have the short ups, the short downs. You're going to have pathways between those sort of mountain bike routes that they go down. You just got to take care, obviously. If you're gonna have pathways between those sort of mountain bike routes that they go down, you just got to take care. Obviously.
Speaker 2:If you're running on mountain bike parks, just be careful, because the mountain bikers have right away so british shops, so um uk athletics are not going to like us now, and also um mountain bikers now, mountain bikers are pretty.
Speaker 1:They're pretty chilled guys anyway, they hate, people they hate runners.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they hate.
Speaker 1:That is a war yeah, where are you guys going? They're like, they're fine.
Speaker 2:Woven Woods and Milton Keynes if you go into their Facebook group.
Speaker 3:Oh my god, yeah, they're not a fan of a runner they are not no, they're alright down here no, they're.
Speaker 3:In fact I'm probably on that group. The amount of times I've had like people swear at me or like just people glance and move dirty looks and half the time, as soon as we get to a hill, I'm smoking them. Yes, downhill they might be a bit quicker, but uphill I think I should deserve the right way, I reckon it's just where you guys live. Yeah, probably there's a reason I left what are they like now in Sheffield? I haven't found many yet, but I'm sure they're fine.
Speaker 2:There you go any, do you think? Is there anything else we can give advice for for the world championships, obviously in terms of staying there?
Speaker 3:Well, I think let's stay on terrain. I just want to know shoes, have you got any kind of? You don't have to necessarily say brands, but anything. What would you want with you? Now you've done it, did you pick the right shoe? Would you want something different?
Speaker 1:Well, they Weather depending. Yeah, Because we had glorious weather where the trails were dry. So, weather depending, I think any sort of multi-terrain trail shoe will do most people just fine, as long as you're stable enough on them and they've got enough grip.
Speaker 2:If the weather's different different you may want something just with a better tread, because I reckon it will get slippery yeah, and there's some people out there that will love their sort of like, their terex, their four mil lug or three mil lug very low profile, and they love them on their, love them on technical terrain. But there's some people that would then hate to run on a road. On those they would literally like I cannot do it, my feet hurt, I can't run. They're not going to be the shoes to pick for this because you are going to be on concrete paths, so you need to be picking something in between the two that you enjoy going. If you have to run on a concrete path for two miles to get to the woods and you don't mind running on that that shoe for that period, then they're the shoe for this race.
Speaker 1:Well, can we compare uk races that this would have something similar to, which is very difficult.
Speaker 2:There isn't anything there isn't anything in the uk where we've had the opportunity to run on technical terrain and then on like a concrete path around the lake for like three miles.
Speaker 1:That it's almost something like a marathon trail shoe that you want would you get away with a road shoe?
Speaker 2:yes, yes, if the weather was fine yeah, if the weather was dry as we, we had the uh that week. Yes, we say it's all technical terrain, but the descent and the ascent isn't like properly this. This isn't that steep that you would need that complete grip from like a three mil lug. I think you could get away with the, the grip that you can get from some road shoes. So I actually think you could have got away and raced really well in the one. What ones are you racing with at the minute? Mo?
Speaker 3:the adidas well, I've got a few pairs now, but I'm thinking like a takumi sen.
Speaker 2:Yes, I think you could have got away with those I did.
Speaker 3:Um, this is a complete different topic. I actually did a bit of that, so we've. So we've got a park near us called encliff, but it's attached to a woodland and I did my interval session there yesterday in my takumi sen and did mix of both the trails and some of it is quite rocky and like rooty and hilly as you can imagine. It's sheffield and then some of its road, and it was perfect. I didn't slip once then. So I think that might be a possible shoe to take if I was going in my bag if everyone's listening to this now I'm thinking what shoes should I wear?
Speaker 2:get, get your road shoes that you feel super fast. You could do a tempo on and run on terrain like woodland and see how they feel and if they feel fine, that's the shoe to bring to world if it's dry I think especially on event, like a world where you've got a multi potentially are racing multiple days, because I'm I'm just thinking more from like saving your legs.
Speaker 3:I feel like that would protect my legs a little bit more on the harder stuff than something that's a little bit more low profile, because we had that in hungary. I remember how blown out my calves were after the freek in hungary because I did it in the um, the terax 190, the speeds, and the next day my calves were in bits just because a lot of that was on. Kind of well, sounds like a similar sort of thing you're describing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, but I am bringing for the 3k, my carbon x. Um yeah, because I know that the 3k, based on what we've seen, is going to be purely flat on on them paths. I just can't see it by being on and going into any technical terrain.
Speaker 2:But even if it does, it's only going to be for a little bit so I reckon some carbon x um twos or threes you know the latest hoker ones would be perfect for it because they're quite low profile super shoe my only, I think the only time that I'd change possibly is if they use, utilize that lake, if there's a lake there yeah, because getting a carbon plated shoe wet is quite.
Speaker 3:They don't drain that well, some of them I think some of the adidas ones, like the takumi sends, actually, I think they could drain quite well. You guys haven't really seen them yet, have you?
Speaker 2:No, but I raced, I raced, not raced. I did my workout in the Adizeros. And they're, the more, yeah, the bigger versions of them, aren't they?
Speaker 3:Well, I think the kind of the mid not the midsole like the weaving on the outsole is like, or on the upper, should say, is like kind of similar to the Terex, so I think it would drain that's a good shoe to try.
Speaker 2:I'm not going to go buy loads of shoes, but the new Terex yeah, that's a shoe I want.
Speaker 3:That's in my basket. Adidas, if you're listening. Oh, you're definitely not listening. If anyone knows anyone that ideas and they want to send us some of the new terex speed ultras, uh, I'm well up for trying. Maybe even I can get the youtube video channel back for that send it to the podcast.
Speaker 1:Don't send it to mo. Send them to all of us. We can do an in-depth conversation.
Speaker 3:We'll do a whole way. Yeah, I'm To be fair, I'm desperate to try that too.
Speaker 2:So I I just want to, just want to tell everyone the weirdest thing that's happening right now. Shipley looks like he's on the floor. What are?
Speaker 1:you doing I am? My back was killing me, so I'm on my knees, oh, oh it's that old age kicking in it really hurts to sit down.
Speaker 2:It's not not good all right, we, we answered the shoes as well no, we're really dropping some gems if you've stayed this far, you've done well, because I feel like we're doing all right today.
Speaker 3:What um?
Speaker 2:what are you doing, so what? I'm trying to. I don't know what I'm trying to say. I'm trying to ask how are you two preparing for british champs?
Speaker 3:uh speedy, you can go first speedy well, I'm kind of wrapping myself in a little bit of bubble wrap, just so that I'm okay. I did my last session yesterday, so we're recording on a Wednesday. So I did my last kind of workout session on Tuesday, so the race is Saturday. So just to give you a kind of a time Normally if it's a Saturday race, I do my last session on either a Tuesday or Wednesday. If it's a Sunday race, I do my last session on a a Tuesday or a Wednesday. It's a Sunday race, I do my last session on a Wednesday or a Thursday. That's normally what I like to do.
Speaker 3:I like to keep my last kind of session quicker than race pace, so I don't do anything crazy interval-wise. I try to stay away from miles or anything longer than that, but anything under is normally okay. Miles or anything longer than that, but anything under is normally okay. Um, for born survivor. Just to give you some context, I did, uh, seven by 1k on the tuesday before the race and that was my last session. This time I'm trying out. I did. I did a little bit of a lighter session because I was. I raced last week and I'm just feeling a bit beaten up still. So I did six by 800, but tried to get quicker. Each rep Nice, and then everything else is just easy, just keeping the legs moving.
Speaker 1:What about your mind?
Speaker 3:I haven't even really thought about it yet. I'm actually probably too relaxed. I haven't even looked through the rule book yet no, we, apparently we need to do that. Yeah, I'm gonna do that probably tomorrow I'm gonna dedicate a bit of time to that. But uh, yeah, just chillaxing, eating lots of food, and that's about it nice what about you ships?
Speaker 1:I am trying to keep reminding myself that this isn't, this isn't meant to be a race for me. This is meant to be a workout. So it's been very difficult because I keep getting little moments where I feel like I need to go back to full-on training and then after I think like that, then I go back to full-on training and then after I think like that, then I go back to thinking, no, I need to still stay with the game plan of not going to gun hoe and just take my time because it's not ready for that. But if I was doing it like normally, I'd be pretty much exactly the same as you, mo. Before a race I would be doing something that just eases me into the race on the weekend. So like usually my interval session, whatever that might be, but just like halved. So then the rest of the workout would be feeling like I'm going into it for the weekend do you both before good rate?
Speaker 2:like races, write down what you've done, so you can then determine whether that contributed to a good race what is in?
Speaker 3:why are you laughing in the workout?
Speaker 1:because we had this conversation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know conversation in sweden, but I know that it is something that listeners might like to hear like if you don't know, you're going to have a good race until you have a good race, so you need to be working out what contributed towards that race. Yes, it's consistency over time in terms of training, but there's also going to be the impacts that were a week before the race. Do you write down what you've done before, a week before a race? That's what I'm asking.
Speaker 3:I have it a lot Like I know what I've done before, a week before a race. That's what I'm asking. Uh, I have it a lot like I know what I've done, because I don't necessarily write it down but it's all on strava like if I wanted to see I could.
Speaker 1:I'm talking no, he's going over the top food stretching roller in.
Speaker 2:Do you?
Speaker 1:write down that he's going into, what pants he's worn.
Speaker 2:Exactly Socks he's worn.
Speaker 3:See I think me last year this is what I was kind of getting at earlier. So me last year probably would have hyper fixated on that, yeah, but me this year I'm like trying to not do that. And it's like the thing is with obstacle racing. I think this is the one thing. Talk about maturing. I think this is the thing I've just learned since 14. Obstacle racing is not kind you. If you don't, you can be really fit and have a shit race still like it's not the sort of sport where fitness always matters. So if I got sucked into every single result, I think you just end up beating yourself up a little bit. Um, like, for example, I'm probably in the best shape I've ever done and I've probably drunk the most alcohol I've ever done in the last couple, like couple of years and realistically they shouldn't go hand in hand, but I think somehow they are. So if I was writing down that every week, I'd probably get drunk every weekend. So I don't think you can do that.
Speaker 1:I think, for for people who are just coming into a sport or just starting to take their training seriously, writing it down is probably like a really good thing to do, because you haven't got, you probably don't know what is actually working in your training that keeps you consistent and staying on the ball, and what works for you because people are so individually different. But I think, because we've been doing it long enough, that we kind of know what works and we just know that we've got to keep doing what we're doing consistently, because that's the, that's the source that works for us particularly. But some people may not know what sauce they want on their burger. They might want ketchup barbecue sauce. They don't know. Yet they don't know what their their palate is.
Speaker 2:Yes, you, you say that and I and I know I said that we we try, we could train for experience, but I am always one for learning, like there's always that extra bit of spice that you can add on. There's always that extra factor that's coming into what affects my body that I want to understand. I just want to understand things more and that's why we're at the tweaking stage, not the we.
Speaker 1:We know what's there, we know the ingredients, but we're just trying to improve, improve on the meal yeah, and and this is where I was saying in sweden that this is really going.
Speaker 2:Caveat like this, not caveat tangents. Um, when I said to you ships like, what would you do differently to tweak your ability in obstacle course racing? In terms of like, do you think you should be doing a different sport to help you with a different modality? Because I feel like we've become quite linear in what we do. Like mo you, you haven't even changed your sport, you've just delved a little bit deeper into the sport that is the foundation of ocr. But I'm talking like do you think? Do you think like doing gymnastics or doing parkour or doing something different, could help?
Speaker 1:We had this conversation that I feel as if I've got more injured because I've stopped doing so many different things and I've tried to focus fully on OCR.
Speaker 2:So you think you benefit, your body benefits more through randomness.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I like structure.
Speaker 3:But I think you can have both. Yeah, you can. You just need to do it right, didn't you? Yeah, I think you can, and I think you could build a lot of fitness off that, like I know what I'm focusing on at the minute. Like you said, darren is still quite part of the sport, but I'm probably still doing more different things as well, like even at work and stuff.
Speaker 3:I'm doing more kind of workouts that I maybe not would have done before, because last year I'd be like, how does this help OCR? Okay, I don't think it does. Then I wouldn't do it, whereas now I'm just jumping into things. Oh, that might be fun and actually I think your body responds quite well to that. As long as you keep the main kind of meat and potatoes, yeah, ocr stuff, and then everything else is just a side thing. And then if it does, really, if you notice oh, I'm doing this thing and it's really starting to hurt this part of my body and affect this that affects OCR, then maybe don't do it. But I think if it's not hindering, it can only help.
Speaker 1:It just comes to that conversation of, like, the guys who are doing so well at the moment because they're focusing so much on their running. It's when you're trying to do all these other bits and pieces. Sometimes it jeopardizes how you can put your running training in and to be the best in the sport. That's when it's difficult because the guys now who are winning are putting in time running and God knows how they're fitting in anything else, because they're not really. But then is it because the running's taken so much of a hold of things or is that just the top of the sport, because they have the fundamentals to get by with it?
Speaker 3:I also think you look, it's good to look at them as examples, but the problem with looking at them as examples is they're such freak outliers, yeah, like if you really try and copy your training off of them, you might not see the same. You probably won't see the same results as the Harsh Truth, because they are. Some of them don't have jobs, which, firstly, that changes everything, and secondly, physically they are just machines and they are just genetically so different. Like there is a genetical thing there where it's like it is different. Well, we're all machines.
Speaker 2:They're just sports cars when we're robbing reliance they're the new ai robots or google kind of want to, I want to, I want to big up, big, the three of us up a little bit, because I do. I have felt the last two years maybe, that we've been doing ocr for so long. Now that I can, I can ignorantly, ignorantly focus on running more and not worry too much about the obstacles, because they just, they just that just comes with. That's just a yes, gift now, but, but it's a gift that we've given to ourselves through consistent hard work. That's all I don't know.
Speaker 1:You want, you think no, I agree, I agree, but then there's there's parts which don't go hand in hand. Like you can't get that fluidity without not going on some obstacles every now and again. You're training yeah yeah, I think.
Speaker 3:I think it kind of what we're seeing is there's this kind of beginner stage where the obstacles really matter, and then to get and maybe this is the transition that I'm making but to get to the next level you then need to almost park the obstacles for a second, like every elite we've talked to has had a period of time where they haven't really been on obstacles and just focused on running. And then you look back at the now the top of the sport, like stein, jesse, even frank, and they're getting more focus sessions back on obstacles again as the season kicks in. So it's almost like I think you, you do your obstacles, you learn the foundations, you then maybe take them away from your training a little bit and focus on the running and then to get to the next step, you have to put the obstacle, you almost have to put both pieces together and the volume still has to be there.
Speaker 2:I think that's kind of what we're seeing.
Speaker 3:Your training blocks need to be longer than you think in certain parts of your attributes yeah, and I think the way racing is going also actually helps that, because, especially in the uk, I think we're actually I think sometimes we see it as a curse that we don't have all these technical obstacles, but actually it's probably a blessing because you don't really need to touch obstacles to go and win a spartan, or to go and win your age group at Spartan, or to go and even born survivor you didn't really need to be an elite, elite obstacle racer.
Speaker 2:It's so funny that you say that we're so fixated on being the best obstacle racers when we could be like you could. We could be the top of the sport if we just focused on running in the uk. But but we did. We get so so involved in in the sport in general around the world that we try to focus on everything, and you know yeah, that's because some of us aren't runners yeah, I know. Just we try to ignore it that's.
Speaker 1:That's why, because- I need to be. I yeah, I know, but I'm never going to be a phenomenal runner. It's just never been something that I never say, never ships.
Speaker 1:You can do well you know, I mean I'm not a terrible runner. But the reason I like obstacle racing is because the obstacles matter and it gets me up there with some good runners, because it brings them back. But I'm never going to. But I'm never going to be hitting 15-minute 5Ks. There's no way in the world. Or I'll probably do better at an ultra run or something, but you know, I'm just not a runner-runner.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think that's the gap. Now is the top of the sport, our runners.
Speaker 3:now they're runners, but now I feel like we're seeing a bit of a transition and I think actually I know we bang on about like the hang on guys, but I think they've probably led the way for this I think they've shown that you, yeah, that you get to a level where you're so good at running that then then it comes back down to obstacles, because there's guys just as quick as them, but they're winning just because they're just as quick and they can do obstacles, yeah, and I think I think there's definitely a transition in the top top, but I think we almost need to follow that pathway in reverse. So we need to look at where they started, not where they're at now, and I think that's what we all get so fixed-ed on instagram, looking at their training now and looking at, oh, my god, they're doing this, they're doing this.
Speaker 1:It's like, yeah, but we've not built the foundation that they have, yeah, and probably, in fact, even dave said this the other day when we was having a chat with him that you know they built the fundamentals on the obstacles over years and years and years and years and years, and maybe that's actually a better way of training and going into it before you start sharpening up and getting that running thing, because you're you're still running, but you're running at a lower volume, still managing to do stuff. It's like using um, using stations for your people who are doing that that high rocks thing, you know. Then they're doing all their work, their hard work, doing other things. So they're getting that engine built up and all that other stuff, doing the other bits and pieces, and then, when they need to, they've got this massive engine that they can sharpen up like a rusty screwdriver.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and then when that hits that peak, it's like okay, now we switch to our running and now we just train. That's now our weakness. So we build that until it's not our weakness, and then eventually our obstacles will become a bit more of a weakness, and then we try and tie the two together. But I think we're even us three, I think we're years off, that well, I'm old I think we're still infants.
Speaker 3:Really, even though we've been in the sport 10 years, I think. Realistically, we've only been in the sport 5 years. In terms of what? Actual training years, starting to really take the fundamentals seriously.
Speaker 1:I'd say only in the last 2-3 years I've had any sort of idea about training, which is short as hell really.
Speaker 3:So we're probably like what 15-year-olds at the minute? 16-year-olds.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like that Younger.
Speaker 3:I'm a swimmer. We've got years.
Speaker 2:Yeah, ships, just sort yourself out. You've got years left. Yeah, ships, just sort yourself out.
Speaker 3:You've got years left. Yeah, what do you think, darren? What I don't know.
Speaker 2:I'm listening in this episode. I'm more of a listener today.
Speaker 3:It freaks me out when you're not talking.
Speaker 2:It was like the Finley episode. It was nice hearing you two yabber away.
Speaker 1:Nailed it, didn't we?
Speaker 2:You asked loads of questions in that episode.
Speaker 3:I thought I had to take your role. I was like, oh no, we're going to really suffer here. I liked it. I was like I'm going to channel my inner Darren, See what happens.
Speaker 2:I do like that listeners are going to hear this most random podcast, probably the most random one we've ever done, and this this is the fundamentals of what built this podcast. So welcome to the world of us three just chatting. This is a car journey this is a car journey this is an ocr long run.
Speaker 1:This is yeah, definitely when we get together this was almost what our episode with Theobald turned into as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, almost, yeah. So, mo, what's next after British Champs? Obviously that's a big A race. Let's wrap this up and try to get a bit of a topic. I don't know a name of this episode random shit. Probably it's going to be called a bit of a topic. I don't know a name of this episode Random shit. Probably it's going to be called. But what?
Speaker 3:How Morgan won the British Champs. Exactly Title. There you go.
Speaker 2:And Darren was not there, and why?
Speaker 3:Darren wasn't there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what's after the British Champs?
Speaker 3:Oh well, like I say, I've got the Spartan Series champs. Oh uh well, like I said, I've got the spartan series. So that's going to be one of my focuses this year really trying to work on that, and I think that kind of aligns with how I've shifted my training as well. Um, and then I'm still going to dabble a little bit in the ukrcr series, so I'll be at some of their races. I'm definitely going to do four um, I might do a fifth and then I think, back end of the year I'm not going to name it yet because I'm still I've still got some ideas floating around my head, but back end of the year I'm going to do something big. I won't, like I say, I'm not going to put that out into the YouTube yet because I'm still discussing with people and thinking about that, but I've got a bit of an idea of a goal I want to achieve and that's going to be one of my focuses.
Speaker 3:Teaser, teaser. That's a little teaser. So listen to us in a year's time and you might find out what that is. I'm interested in that now. I could tell you guys offline.
Speaker 3:No no, no, I want to know, I want to keep guys offline.
Speaker 1:No, no, no. I want to know. I want to keep this dispensed.
Speaker 2:I like that. This is a question we don't tend to ask because we don't get too serious with everything. But how's sponsorship going? Or how are you funding everything? Because it is quite difficult. You are getting. Well, we all are striving to be the best athletes in the UK for obstacle course racing, and yet people ask me at work like, well, you pay for everything, right, yeah, you pay for every single thing you do. You would like a sponsor, wouldn't you?
Speaker 3:I mean it would help. I'm now not living with my parents, so I'm working a lot. Just put it that way.
Speaker 2:And we're not underplaying it. I'm working a lot, Just put it that way. And and it's not, you're not under, we're not underplaying it. Like we're top, we're top of a sport in in the whole of United Kingdom. Like, and you, you don't get paid for it, Don't get sponsored for anything. So if there is any sponsors out there, you're always on the, always welcoming it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I always welcoming it. Yeah, I mean I probably don't do myself any justice by not I don't probably do the work. I mean we obviously we have this podcast, but social wise and some of the stuff that people get sponsorship from, I'm not the best at that, but it's more also because I just don't necessarily like I don't put my energy into that because I'm doing other things and training. I think that's what's hard.
Speaker 2:Um, but yeah any any sponsors, feel free to hit me up that would change your mindset more as well, and it's difficult, like you've got, to find that balance. You're racing, training, perfect, and you've got the right mindset, and trying to appease a sponsor it's hard yeah, what about you guys?
Speaker 3:what's? I feel like I haven't really catched up on your year plan. What about? You guys, what's? I feel like I'm really catching up on your year plan.
Speaker 2:Well, what are you? What are you thinking? Oh, okay, I'll go because I was gonna ask ships about his side to go. He needs to sort that shit out so he can get back to being awesome.
Speaker 2:Um, I, my main, my main thing is, um, not not racing as much, but because I want to, I do want to hit, hit the european championships. I want to hit the european championships and become a uh, the european champion in my age. On the 3k and the 12k. That I don't think I I'm going to stop saying, I'm going to focus on one. I think I've got the ability to do both and I need to just get out there and just get it done. Um, my fitness at the minute, my speed I've never been as fast as I am right now and that's I know. I haven't really shown it in races currently. Well, maybe tough liking I did, but yeah, it's waiting, it's, it's gonna happen like the training is going really well. So I'm gonna focus on sharpening in the 3k series to help me in the European Championships. That's the main goal European Championships and potentially the Worlds. But I have to be completely honest, that's still a TBC the Worlds because of the money, the time. It's hard to do life and do this.
Speaker 1:YOLO, that's all I say yeah, I'm just, do you know what I'm doing? Do this YOLO, that's all I say. Yeah, I'm just Do. You know what I'm doing? What Adventure? What is that?
Speaker 2:It's hard to take you serious when you're on the floor.
Speaker 3:When you're just sitting down on the floor.
Speaker 2:He's just on the floor looking at us.
Speaker 1:I feel like I'm talking to a monk. I am a monk, I'm being very monkey.
Speaker 2:Ships. In all seriousness, the listeners need to hear this. How are you sorting your injuries out? Tell us how you're doing it.
Speaker 1:Basically, I'm just doing more strength work, the exercises that I've been given to try and help it out. But the trouble is it just takes time and training full-time for racing just does not go with that kind of training. So I'm just enjoying myself at the moment. I'm doing the specific stuff that I need to do for this to try and get better and in the meantime I'm just riding the bike, going out for a run when I want to still, like you know, doing a, an interval session once a week in that, just because I enjoy it basically and I enjoy doing that. But other than that, just, yeah, just enjoying stuff. I mean, I'm really enjoying getting out on the bike at the moment and I'm going to probably go on a few bike bike packing adventures as well, because he's talking about this.
Speaker 2:I know I can chew my ear off.
Speaker 1:The thing is right. You guys know how much I like traveling around and seeing places just by human power, and it's really floating my boat at the moment just because I'm injured so I can just go out, spend hours doing something, seeing stuff, and it's not actually affecting my well-being, it's just affecting my way that I love life and I just love doing that. So, yeah, I just wish I had more time to do it, because every weekend seems to get filled up with stuff stop being on so many podcasts.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I need to do it because every weekend seems to get filled up with stuff. Stop being on so many podcasts. Yeah, I need to do that. Will won't give me no time off.
Speaker 2:That's nice Ships. It is good that you've got a positive mindset towards the situation you're in right now, but, in all honesty, is the injuries improving?
Speaker 1:Sometimes they feel like they are, Other days it just feels like nothing's happening.
Speaker 2:so it's quite frustrating because because there was a glimpse of you back in action in tough viking like mo. I say to you, like he was, he was back to some in in my maybe an 80 capacity it's really, it's really strange, right, because it, because of how it is, it just seems to.
Speaker 1:It's like not debilitating, it doesn't stop me from doing anything, but it's like. I don't know if anyone's had psych like sciatica pain before, but it's just there and because it's there you can't move the way you want to do. It affects how you move in just certain positions and it's just frustrating because, yeah, you're not like the person that you know you can be. It's like someone's put the handbrake on and you just can't roll. But it's getting there. But then like other days, obviously, like working and things, and I don't think you know, know, working and doing certain training helps, but you know you only live once, didn't you? I'd be a wreck if I didn't do anything. So I'd rather waste away than wear away. No, hang on, that's not the right saying, is it?
Speaker 3:I'll rather wear away than waste away I must admit though, tartartan Warrior, even that like you seemed obviously the 3k not, maybe not so much. Well, not the the 8k, but 3k. You had a really good race, you looked really good.
Speaker 1:I can pull out. I mean it hurts to like like doing a weave or doing a low rig. It hurts but I can do it. It doesn't like actually stop me from moving, it's just it hurts. And it doesn't like actually stop me from moving, it's just it hurts. And because I haven't got the volume in. Yeah, 3k I can kind of get away with at the moment because I can hold that for longer. But 8k seems to be sort of the limit at the moment for pushing that speed endurance.
Speaker 2:But oh well, I can cycle very well you should do that race where it's just sunset to sun, sunrise to sunset across the UK from.
Speaker 1:I've. I've actually got a few like my couple of things in my bag that I'm quite thinking of 2 BC lots of spoilers or not spoilers.
Speaker 3:Lots of secrets. Find all out there. Have you got any?
Speaker 2:secrets down? No, no secrets. Hyrox is definitely just a pipe dream that I'm not gonna do because can't get a ticket maybe we do it, we invent our own yeah, accountability games do it, do it, nuts, the accountability games put some obstacles, like an obstacle high rocks yeah, we could.
Speaker 3:We could do like the Spartan Games sort of esque thing, but for UK athletes well, you could just do the high like an unofficial high rocks with the same implements on the stations but then throw obstacles on the K runs that'd be cool, wouldn't it like a rig and then a k run, but it's basically an obstacle course race, isn't?
Speaker 3:it well like a rig and a wall on every k. So you have to do that as well. And then you come in, do your sled, do your ski, do all of that stuff. But but on every run there's like obstacles. I wouldn't even put a rig in there, I'd just put like walls. That'd be horrible.
Speaker 1:Do you know what? If we're going to sort something out for the people, we should just have a barbecue.
Speaker 2:Summer party Well we should no, we should have nuts summer. Summer, nuts is always a perfect opportunity. Accountability camp, Accountability camp yeah, there we go. We can have ball gong there and everything.
Speaker 3:Well, we need to bring ball gong back to life.
Speaker 2:Apparently he's coming back, but you wait TBC.
Speaker 3:TBC. Yeah, All right, what are we calling?
Speaker 2:this episode TBC, tbc, 2bc, 2bc.
Speaker 3:Yeah alright, what we?
Speaker 2:call what we call in this episode 2BC.
Speaker 3:2bc. Alright, I don't know. There's a lot of a lot of good nuggets of information there, but I feel like we need a catchy title for people to listen. Ai will saw it for us. Yeah, that's true. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I enjoyed that guys. It was nice to have a little chinwag again.
Speaker 2:It was. This is how it started. People like to hear into us chinwag. I hope they haven't switched off, but yeah.
Speaker 3:Right, let's go, so we can switch off before them.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, all right, all right, we abrupt ending, abrupt ending, Goodbye, alright. We abrupt, abrupt ending abrupt ending goodbye.
Speaker 1:Goodbye, peace out, goodbye.
