Accountability Corner
Embark on an adventure with Darren, Morgan, and Chris, the dynamic trio steering the ship at "Accountability Corner." As passionate OCR enthusiasts, they're on a mission to share their expertise and enthusiasm for obstacle course racing with the world. From sharing insider tips on overcoming training plateaus to demystifying the complexities of race registration and gear selection, no stone is left unturned. Whether you're a seasoned competitor hungry for fresh perspectives or a newcomer eager to dip your toes into the muddy waters of OCR, these hosts are here to guide you every step of the way. Join them as they peel back the curtain on the electrifying world of OCR, revealing stories of triumph, camaraderie, and boundless adventure.
Don't miss out – tune in and discover why OCR is capturing hearts and minds around the globe!
Accountability Corner
#52: From Obstacle Running to Elite Racing: Lenny Stoutjesdijk Journey
When swimming teacher Lenny Stoutdyke caught sight of elite OCR competitors crossing the finish line at a recreational race in the Netherlands, something clicked. "I want to do that," he thought. Less than a year later, he stood on the podium at the European Championships, silver medal in hand.
Lenny's meteoric rise in obstacle course racing stems from his uncommonly scientific approach to training. While many athletes train hard, Lenny trains smart. For the scorching Portuguese championship, he created his own heat chamber using a road bike on an indoor trainer, full rain gear, and a core temperature sensor to monitor his body's adaptation. This dedication to race-specific preparation paid dividends when competitors wilted in the 40°C heat while he maintained peak performance.
The distinction between "obstacle course running" and "obstacle course racing" forms a fascinating foundation of Lenny's story. Starting as a recreational participant in 2014, he gradually built from 7km events to grueling 60km challenges before transitioning to competitive racing in 2022. His training methodology combines aerobic base-building, strength work targeting both major muscle groups and smaller stabilizing muscles, and creative workouts like "Power Cards" – using a deck of playing cards to generate varied, unpredictable training sessions.
What truly separates championship-level athletes from casual participants is their willingness to invest – not just time and effort, but strategic resources. After identifying shooting as a weakness, Lenny purchased an EcoAims system for his club, turning a competitive disadvantage into an opportunity for community improvement. This exemplifies the OCR mindset: finding solutions rather than making excuses.
As the sport continues evolving across Europe, each region has developed distinctive obstacle styles – Portuguese courses feature technical bent-arm challenges, Dutch races incorporate rope work and survival elements, while Scandinavian events emphasize flowing movements and raw strength. Understanding these regional differences allows athletes to adapt training specifically for upcoming competitions, particularly important as championship events rotate between host countries.
Ready to elevate your OCR performance? Take inspiration from Lenny's methodical approach. Research course-specific demands, implement targeted training adaptations, and remember that success comes from consistency rather than sporadic intensity. The obstacle course racing community welcomes dedicated athletes willing to push boundaries and share knowledge – exactly the spirit that makes this sport so uniquely rewarding.
Welcome to the Accountability Corner, where we talk about everything obstacle course racing, from staying disciplined in training, affording the sport, signing up for your first race and, more importantly, how the sport is growing around the world, with your hosts Morgan Maxwell, chris Shipley and Darren Martin.
Speaker 2:Okay, episode 52 of Accountability Corner is underway. We're back from the euros shipley's getting married. We've we've got our enthusiasm back and we're ready to go. And to get us back in action, we've got the dynamo that is lenny. Uh, can you pronounce your last name for me, please?
Speaker 2:my last name is stout, just like it's a little bit like like stout, like the beer, like the ale, yeah and on yes, and then dyke, stout, just dyke yes, okay, like easy, lenny, we don't usually ask for this off of our guests when they come on, but I feel like I want to really go. I really want to get to know Lenny, and so can you give us a bit of introduction who you are and where you're coming from? Right?
Speaker 3:now? Yeah, sure. Well, uh, I'm an obstacle course racing athlete from the Netherlands. I'm 28 years old, I uh live together with my partner, denise, and I have been obstacle course racing since september 2022 oh, wow, I didn't you know what, lenny.
Speaker 2:I thought you'd been racing for years. So that's, I've already learned something. So this is, this is good. Yeah, well, based on the fact that you, uh, most of the time beat me. I thought you'd been racing for years, yeah well before I did the, the recreational.
Speaker 3:So I started obstacle course running in, like 2014, at the Strong Viking venues, and then I built up from 7K to the 60 kilometer one.
Speaker 1:I like that, started off obstacle running.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And then went into obstacle racing. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Okay, there's a clear distinction. Yeah yeah, obstacle racing. Yeah, definitely, there's a clear distinction. Yeah, yeah, I've tried the whole. I've tried the whole shebang with the, with the recreational stuff, and then I, uh, I looked at a couple of folks coming across the finish line with the ocr series and I thought, well, I want to do that nice.
Speaker 1:I was into quite a few recreational things back in the past, but we won't go into that.
Speaker 2:They definitely gave him some speed.
Speaker 1:Shall we say that you left out. The most important thing, lenny, is that you are also the first person who actually came up to us at Accountability Corner when we was at a race from another country and said, oh, you are the guys from accountability corner oh really yeah you're the first person.
Speaker 3:You're the first person who noticed us yeah, and also something you did you guys didn't know or maybe do know, um, the, the first period I was, uh, I was learning, uh, about obstacle course racing. I was also listening to the, to the podcast, like from the very first episode, so I learned a lot from you guys.
Speaker 2:Oh wow, I didn't know I don't know if I could take credit, for that depends. Well, you're doing really well at racing, so, yeah, we take full credit for your knowledge in the yeah well, but then in this podcast, there's also a lot of knowledge to be gained.
Speaker 3:So that's why I started listening, and and still am listening one of the few.
Speaker 1:Well, one of the questions I always wanted to ask you, from that first time that you said hello to us, was how the hell did you come onto our podcast because you're from the netherlands?
Speaker 3:and we're a uk-based podcast yeah, well, I listened to spotify a lot and, as you know, here your podcast is on spotify and I started browsing um ocr podcast. So, uh, I came across the um, the american one. Uh, what was his name? Matt matt, matt b davis, or?
Speaker 2:yeah yeah.
Speaker 3:So I started uh listening a couple of uh episodes on that, but I didn't really think, well, it was kind of good, some episodes were good, um, but it was a little bit of getting used to and I already knew that podcast a little bit, um, so I wanted something new and then I came across your podcast, which was the very first episode. I thought, oh, what's this?
Speaker 1:well, let's, let's listen to to this well, to be fair, we are quite lucky because there's not a lot of podcasts out there for us yeah, supply and demand.
Speaker 2:If the demand's there, well, maybe the demand's not there, but definitely the uh, the market is there for a podcast we have one podcast of survival running in the Netherlands.
Speaker 1:That's it. Is it in the Netherlands language?
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:What language is that Ships?
Speaker 1:What language is that? It's the Netherlands. It's Dutch there we go.
Speaker 3:How is your Dutch?
Speaker 1:My Dutch is terrible. I don't think this is so bad of the UK population that we are crap with every single language in the world. I don't think I even know one Dutch phrase.
Speaker 2:No, I think you know one Dutch phrase?
Speaker 1:No, I think you know one it just doesn't come up at the moment, you'd have to teach us.
Speaker 4:I've got a Dutch. I don't know if it's a Dutch phrase Tell me. All I know is Stroopwafel. Is that Dutch?
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:That's the best one Allley knows is double dutch?
Speaker 2:I do, I do know that one. I was waiting for that.
Speaker 3:No, we are quite bad actually, because, lenny, your english is uh pretty incredible wow thanks yeah, yeah well, it's also thanks to to my parents and um watching a lot of discovery channel on animal planet and that sort of stuff I love that take.
Speaker 2:I want to, I want to get back, I want to go back into that distinction you just gave us then, because no one's ever described it that way when we've asked them about how they got into ocr. So okay, so obstacle course racing is relatively new, but what about? When was the first time you, sort of like, found obstacle course, what we always call it obstacle course racing, obstacle course running or survival running?
Speaker 3:very first time I found obstacle course running was actually with one of my teammates at soccer practice. So we went to soccer practice and he was doing like a pre-military school or a pre-military education and he told me well, you were a pretty good runner, so you should try this. So, oh, okay, well, I'll go. And then I uh I registered for the seven kilometer. One, did it and had the time of my life, so immediately hooked and then just built up from that nice what was it that got you hooked on it?
Speaker 3:because crawling through mud and, uh, trying to get over a wall that was completely soaked in in mud and water and um, going, going from a slide or carrying heavy loads uphill, downhill, almost sliding on your, on your back end how much, how much different to that, how much different from your normal day-to-day life, was that first experience of, like you know, taking part in an OCR?
Speaker 3:the the helping of everybody, um getting, uh, getting together and and helping people you don't know, and getting help by people you don't know, and um, well, the the fun of it, because it's it's not an everyday thing you do, so, yeah, yeah, it makes it real special one thing we don't ever ask each other in obstacle course racing well, just the community in general is.
Speaker 2:We naturally assume that everyone just does this for their whole entire life, but what do you actually do for work?
Speaker 3:oh well, here's an interesting thing. I first was a cnc machinist for eight years, and then I was looking for something new, a bit of a challenge in in my region, but couldn't really find it, um, so I did something entirely different and now I'm a swimming teacher a what teacher? A swimming teacher a swimming teacher okay so I give swimming lessons to adults and children, and you name it we in shipley could definitely do with help there.
Speaker 1:Oh no, it's not you, no no, no joke here, but I'm pretty damn good at a bit of breaststroke and that is the actual swimming kind. Well, actually both kinds to be fair Chips you're.
Speaker 3:you're in a bit of an advantage because you're a bit longer than everybody else.
Speaker 1:That's correct. I am quite long. He's like a bit of driftwood isn't he? But front crawl, terrible.
Speaker 2:I really do want to work on that, In fact that might be something you could give us a few tips on in the in the future. Yeah, yeah, I could do that. So how is that? How is that? Um? So when that after that first race because I was asking what you do for a living, because sometimes it it can even be quite slight, it can be slightly similar to what you do for a living. So there's a lot of personal trainers, a lot of people in the physical sort of education do obstacle course racing, um, but and then you also find a lot of people that are like completely far away from it do it as well, because they just want a different part of their life, a different challenge, something really out of the ordinary. So why did you carry on with it at that time?
Speaker 3:well, the the main thing, um, also what brought a bit of advantage, was the schedule, the working schedule, because my working hours are, most of them, are in the afternoon and in the midday or later in the evening, so I can train at different hours or I can train the whole day. So that's really, that's really positive thing about, uh, such a schedule, such a work schedule. Um, yeah, I'm trying to think of something else. What made me stick with oco racing? Well, um, I wanted to see how far I could push it.
Speaker 1:Here we go. How far could you push it? Cause the thing is in the Netherlands when you first started OCR or running obstacle running yeah obviously you're in the Netherlands, so there's quite a high caliber of other athletes in the Netherlands. Obviously with the survival running and all those bits and pieces Right? So was there quite so? Was there people to look up to? Even with OCR series, there's loads of people to look up to in that. Was that quite inspiring to you to just think, oh well, I could be something?
Speaker 3:like these guys.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes, like. At first I was looking up at other European guys because I didn't know at the time that there were a lot of high-performance Dutch guys. But then I started looking more into who's actually racing in the Dutch part and I came across Jesse and Stijn and Frank and also Roel is another guy from Hangon, and Stein and Frank and also Roel is another guy from Hang-On, and I was against those guys in the first couple of races because the funny thing was I didn't even know there were age groups, so I started out in the elite. I think my second race was in March of 23, and I was starting in the same starting, the same starting uh, starting wave as stein and tibo.
Speaker 3:He was also on the podcast, I believe, tibo yeah, oh, yeah, yeah so we were running uh with, with the four or the five guys, um, and the first, the first distance was a long distance and the second distance was the short one, but it was on the same day, so that made a pretty hard racing day, but I did all right. I did all right. I came across my girlfriend at kilometer 11 of 12.
Speaker 3:And she whoa, you're in fourth place. So I'm in fourth place. What do you mean? I'm not in fourth place, no, you are. Wow, so that was great. Yeah, the second race, I ran fourth place and that's the moment that I knew oh, this could, this could get pretty big. So let's continue on with this nice so how do?
Speaker 2:you? How are you? Let's go to training. Does it because you're a swim swimming coach? Coach, how, how does that? How does it affect your training? How did you adapt your training with OCR? Because you, being in the Netherlands, like you've got, you've got hang on training venue, but I don't know how close, how close is that to you?
Speaker 3:About two and a half hours.
Speaker 2:OK, so where? Where could you go to do ocr training?
Speaker 3:um, I train at the outdoor pact and that's in another province, it's like an hour drive away from me, but that venue is also, yeah, as big as the one at hang on, so it's a pretty big training venue. There's a lot of possibilities to train free or train with the group. So that's really, um, that's really what attracted me to train there being a swimming coach.
Speaker 1:does that give you a bit of intel into, like, just how, like training? What's the word I'm looking for? Is it methodology, methodology, methodology. Does that give you?
Speaker 3:an insight to, yeah, training methodology. No, not really. Oh, okay, I had to find out a lot for myself with the training and just trying out and asking different people how do you train for something like this? But my training plan consists of mostly running, uh, doing strength work. Also swimming, yes, because I give swimming lessons. Um, I, I swim. I swim a little bit more than the average person, I think, but that's because it's my job yeah, it's.
Speaker 2:It's an absolute minefield to try to work out how to train for obstacle course racing and we're quite lucky in the uk that we've. We seem to have developed quite quite a lot of good coaches within the uk. Yes, there is, there are a handful, but that handful we've got are really knowledgeable. They've been doing it for like 15, 10, 15 to 10 years.
Speaker 3:Do you have coaches around you as well, yeah, okay, yeah, there are a lot of, uh, there's a lot of expertise coming from the survival parts of the sport, um, but, um, yeah, the most experienced ones, uh, they are at hang on, um, but also at other clubs, a little bit in the northern part of the nether Netherlands or a little bit more towards Amsterdam, but with our club as well. There are also a couple of trainers who are really experienced with the ninja part also.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:So yeah.
Speaker 2:So do you coach yourself?
Speaker 3:No, not yet. No, I would like to one day.
Speaker 2:yeah, well, do you, do you have a training program you stick to then yeah, okay, yeah, trying to be as consistent as I can and accountable.
Speaker 3:Make sure you're accountable yeah, definitely, today was uh power cards what's that? Power Cards. You get a deck of cards and then you have spades and clubs and hearts and the rectangle. No, what was it? The diamonds.
Speaker 1:Diamonds.
Speaker 3:I was thinking rectangle Diamonds are pull-ups, clubs are push-ups and the hearts are sit-ups and the spades Are squats.
Speaker 1:So it's a bit like a Random at random. Yeah, Not hit.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like a hit class. Yeah, I like that so if you pull like a diamond 10, you need to do 10 pull ups and then, you do the full 52 deck yeah what's a joker? Yeah, that seems right the number you flip after that. That's the amount of burpees you would have to do.
Speaker 1:Oh nice.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Or not no or not nice.
Speaker 2:That's a really cool workout. I've never heard that before in my life.
Speaker 3:No, it's fine.
Speaker 2:I didn't realize you were going to go through the whole deck. Yeah, how long does that take you to get through the deck? 20 minutes 20 you to get through the deck um 20 minutes 20 minutes.
Speaker 3:Right, we're doing this. Yeah, this sounds good. Sounds like a good challenge. Yeah, I get uh, two, two and a half decks in one hour, wow, but I put it right next to my pull-up bar okay, this is the secret of lenny. This is this is your secret sauce quick, and fun, easy workouts yeah, he's doing.
Speaker 1:He's doing a Russell Walter and I'm sure there's more. I'm pretty sure there's more than a quick deck of cards, because yeah because what people don't realize is Lenny. If he was in the UK, you'd probably be one of the best UK athletes here really so yeah, without a shadow of a doubt, wow, thanks yeah, I think, lenny.
Speaker 2:Look just to give you an idea of where you perform in the uk is that you're probably two to five minutes probably ahead of me some races and that puts you in the realms of with mo or or sometimes, sometimes slightly behind mo or with Mo. It depends on the race so yeah, wouldn't you agree? Would you agree, mo? I don't know, I'm not down heart down playing it for you, am I?
Speaker 4:no, you'd definitely be up there, yeah, um that's it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what that looks like, it's always hard to tell. I know you've experienced racing.
Speaker 3:I remember going to the coming to the UK to do the Spartan sprint at Southwest.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Like I don't know. I can't remember really how far I was behind more. I guess it was four or six minutes.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow.
Speaker 3:I remember that, but the thing is, I didn't get sleep the night before.
Speaker 2:The jet lag. The jet lag got you.
Speaker 3:Because I got in the car with a mate and, uh, I thought he had his driver's license, but he didn't.
Speaker 3:So I would drive the whole, the whole six hours in the evening. And then we came, uh, to the hotel. And then we came at the hotel and, uh, I had like four hours of sleep. And then, uh, uh, in the back of my mind I had like, oh yeah, I still need to do the fun run with my mate. And that was the 21 beast. So with that in the back of my mind, I was running a little bit conservative with no sleep.
Speaker 3:Yeah, great one, yeah but the next one will get a little better.
Speaker 2:Mo's probably being quiet because Mo's got faster these days, so he probably doesn't want anyone to say he's close to it.
Speaker 4:How far was you from Dan at Strong Viking the other day? That's true, oh yeah it's a good comparison. The OCR series. Well, I think it was a good comparison.
Speaker 3:The OCR series. Well, I think it was maybe also six or seven minutes. He is fast. Wow, daniel's really fast.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you are probably with me then at the minute, Lenny.
Speaker 3:Yeah, at the longer distances I might be with you, Darren, and with Shipley. I'm injured at the longer distances. I might be, with, with you, darren, and with Shipley.
Speaker 2:I'm injured at the moment don't, we were not talking about that anymore.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, sorry, yeah sorry, positive, I'm getting married.
Speaker 4:That's what it is yeah, yeah, getting married.
Speaker 1:Really sleazy very busy yeah, got this big old ring on my finger thumbprint oh yeah you've still got four days to go.
Speaker 3:Or maybe you'll get a boost from it. Maybe, who knows?
Speaker 1:They'll get something.
Speaker 2:Oh, he's sipping what are you sorry dan I was waiting for you.
Speaker 1:For some reason, I was waiting for you to finish drinking your water no, I'm not I'm not a news presenter you have to wait for me to drink my water.
Speaker 2:I'm waiting for mo. I'm waiting for mo to are you taking uh?
Speaker 3:are you taking electrolytes as well? No no, that makes a big difference I take it.
Speaker 2:Ohtes, oh yeah, I do take them, but this is just water at the minute and Shipley will have a go at me Like in Portugal.
Speaker 3:the couple of days in Portugal I was drinking electrolytes by the loads.
Speaker 1:What electrolytes do you use?
Speaker 3:I use the ones from Clearly. It's a Dutch-based company, but it uses all natural products and it puts all the ingredients on the back so you can see what's in it.
Speaker 1:Nice, much sugar in it or anything like that. No, a little bit of citric flavor.
Speaker 3:It was real good. I like it. At first it's real salty salty, but once you get used to it, it's it's just as good as any citrus drink, really.
Speaker 1:A little bit of science, but you need the right ratios of potassium magnesium and potassium magnesium and the other one. Oh yeah, you get the right ratios of that and sodium thank you mo science test number two. If you get the right ratios of that Sodium Sodium. Thank you, Mo Science test number two. If you get the right ratios of them into your body, all the time you're very hydrated and it also helps you. What does it help you do? It helps you perform better.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, it worked.
Speaker 2:There you go. Yeah, how was the Euros for you, lenny?
Speaker 3:Oh, it was cool. It was really cool. I loved it. I was uh prepared for the, for the heat, because I did the heat training at home, and uh, well, I wasn't really prepared for the um, for the local athletes, let's put it that way yeah, they knew what they were doing oh, oh wow, they were really quick.
Speaker 2:What the Portuguese, italian and Spanish seemed to have.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they seemed to get away from me, at the short distance.
Speaker 2:yeah, the only people to beat us cold athletes? Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4:But also I must admit obviously I wasn't there, but as soon as I started seeing the results flying, I was like that's hot. I just looked at the nationalities that have started to do well and I was like I think this is a hot race.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was.
Speaker 2:Never raced anything like it. I know you've shipped, I've literally just listened to who's hot and I know you said it was hot loads. But I think we, we, yeah, we've, we've never raced anything like that. But you are leaving a lot, lot unsaid here, lenny, because now you said you've done heat training as well. So you're, you're very dedicated to describe my.
Speaker 3:Should I describe my training?
Speaker 4:yeah, let's, let's yeah, how did you prepare for the heat?
Speaker 3:yeah, come on yeah, we don't want to prepare for a european championship in portugal yeah, well I want people to realize that ocr is a small sport.
Speaker 2:People think that we just do this for fun, but the reason for this podcast is to actually showcase that we're actually a bit crazy and a bit disciplined yeah, exactly well it started out.
Speaker 3:Um, in the beginning of this year I was ready with my training plan and you know, the basics are always your aerobic base. That's the building phase, the zone two running, the strength, the balance, the small muscles, preventing injuries and cycling. I started cycling a little bit more this year on a road bike and I incorporated that in my training plans. I upped the amount of kilometers per week up to 80 or 85, which is pretty high, but it's okay, you can manage it with the time that I have. I still work 40 hours a week, but then again, I said, with the different schedules, so it was a little bit easier to cycle during the day and do some strength training after work.
Speaker 3:So I did that and then, when the race season started started, we first had the short distances, so I also did the explosive work and the plyometrics with inside of the strength training. And I did a lot of interval training in that period and was really doing a variety of interval trainings but trying to build it up. So I was running hard for 90 seconds and then resting for 50 and then running hard for two minutes and then taking a rest for 40 seconds. You know, just build it up and I used the races in my local area to to see where I'm at and where where there needs to be some work done. And it was a lot of strength work that needed to be done the heavy lifting, but also the uphill running. So I updated my training plan to a lot of uphill running and the technical stuff also, because that came along as well.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Nice. There's a lot there. And then what about the heat training? And do you know when? In the UK, whenever we get a rule book, there is sheer panic. Everyone just runs around in panic. It's not only in the UK, you know. Yeah, okay, good to know oh no, no, square up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they should panic book, the panic books out I guess we don't panic as much now because we've had quite a lot of experience at european races. But I suppose, instead of panicking, there's just little adaptations to training that you need to do because ships you said it the style of race was bent arm. There wasn't anything completely flowing, so if you we didn't have that lock off bent arm strength, you were going to struggle. So you need to just tweak it a little bit. Was there anything you tweaked or what was your block going into? Um euros?
Speaker 3:yeah, no, like you said, definitely the, the bent arm training. That was a lot of uh, that was incorporated in my training plan as well. Um, but the heat training I started, uh, at the end of, no, at the beginning of may, because that was that was when the outside also was heating up a little bit and I put my road bike on a home trainer, put on a raincoat, put on long trousers, the long cycling clothing, and I was training with one of the core sensors. And it was a little bit expensive, the core sensor, but it made it completely worth it Because I knew Stein was training with the Core Center and I was looking at it. So, wait, why is he doing the heat training?
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, portugal, oh, it's really hot. Oh, it makes sense. So, okay, let's try this. So I was trying it with the app and the stuff really worked. I was being surprised, oh, surprised. Oh wow, this works really good. This might give a give an advantage when I come in portugal and it did the heat didn't bother me as much as as I thought it would well, yeah, what training, what?
Speaker 2:what app is that?
Speaker 3:Core the Core app, core temperature.
Speaker 2:So that measures your body temperature does it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but there's a sensor along with that.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:It's this one Little sensor.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Stick that up your butt, do you?
Speaker 3:Heart rate monitor.
Speaker 1:Where's that go?
Speaker 2:Yeah, next to your heart rate monitor right yeah but it works perfectly wow okay, so you was able to see your adaptation and how you was getting better with the heat training yeah but also that's.
Speaker 3:That's also a little bit of a secret with my training is oh, it out there now.
Speaker 1:It's out there I was going to say how do you figure out what to do with that? Then Did you read it in a book.
Speaker 3:Well, you read it on the internet.
Speaker 2:Chip hasn't figured that one out yet. Oh yeah, the internet Ships hasn't figured that one out yet.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, the internet. You can do other things of it Ships. I know you can search on it but I didn't know you could search about information.
Speaker 3:I go to the library with dusty books, you know.
Speaker 1:That's it. Might have all got pictures in them anyway. I also do a lot of research on uh, on different training, uh mythologies yeah it seems to be a very, um, a very dutch thing to do, isn't it that you're very, uh, very scientific about things, and you, you all, you all seem to have that very straightforward way of thinking and look at things very scientifically yeah, the direct approach if it doesn't work, try and fix it yeah yeah we don't do that yeah, you do we?
Speaker 2:we put it down, leave it and try something else that's something else.
Speaker 1:We keep calm and carry on, oh right.
Speaker 2:Well, I think we've truly underestimated the heat. I think some athletes in the UK really put effort into that heat adaptation, but ships I think we openly say that we underestimated it, didn't we?
Speaker 1:I don't think we underestimated it. I think one of the things that we didn't realise was how dry the heat was. Um, I don't know if you experienced that as well, lenny, but the the, the dryness of that heat was something that I wasn't prepared for. It was it was very different to running in the heat or doing any heat acclimatization yeah, anywhere because it was just as soon as you start, especially on that 3k, as soon as you got up that those steps, it was like someone had taken a bowl ball of cotton wool, shoved it in your mouth and then taking it out and then dried your mouth with a hair dryer.
Speaker 2:It was just, yeah, something else instant oven yeah, my one was that the, where they put the, the um the rep bag carry or the sandbag carry that honestly felt like I was in the desert. That was just the hottest, yeah, and it was hot. Yeah, 15, yeah on the 15k.
Speaker 3:That sandbag carry was the hottest ever but then there's, then there's the other side. If, uh, the worlds or the euros was in the uk and it was rainy and windy, you guys would be in an advantage, in an advantage.
Speaker 2:I'm right we would. I don't think the Portuguese and Italian athletes have dealt with the amount of mud and rain that we deal with on obstacles. I suppose they need to come and do the nuts challenge. I don't know what our muddiest race is anymore. Actually Mud monsters.
Speaker 1:Mud monster. We spoke about this in Euros itself. But should we then, do you think we should always be looking at the localness of the races and where they're being held and think, right, this is a good thing. Right, it's Portugal, portuguese have a certain type of race. We need to train the portuguese style. And then do you think, as it goes from these different nations, do you think that it should be like the style of that race? And because obstacle racing we've learned is not the same in different regions of the world, do you think we should have different styles? Is that what makes ocr ocr?
Speaker 3:uh, yeah, definitely yeah, the. The spanish and the portuguese style is really bent arms, um technical low rigs and getting the, the hooks in the eyes and the. I think the, the um, I just say it. The dutch style is more ropes and beams and then putting the survival part also in obstacle course running racing, because that's also one of our styles.
Speaker 2:And I've noticed that Scandinavian style is kind of like a bit of a mix. Like they do love a very flow, flowing obstacles that allow you to look good on instagram, but but it's true they are quite flowing obstacles.
Speaker 3:The scandinavian was strength, strength, yeah, they do.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, when we went to tough viking, everyone was a bit surprised with that 80 kg. Is it 80 or 60? It was 80, wasn't it shitelt?
Speaker 3:lighter than me. Don't know if I can get that up really.
Speaker 1:You'll get it up easy.
Speaker 3:You weigh 63 kilograms.
Speaker 1:You weigh 63 kilos.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm a lightweight.
Speaker 1:You are a lightweight, yeah.
Speaker 3:You can toss me about Definitely.
Speaker 1:I'll do that next time.
Speaker 2:Mo, you must have lost loads of weight lately. Who's looking trim on the Spartan race?
Speaker 4:we're getting there. I keep fluctuating a little bit, but I've got a goal weight alright.
Speaker 2:I'll be there soon, attending that village hall every week. Are you, yeah, going to my slimming world?
Speaker 4:the locals love me and I'll be there soon Attending that village hall every week. Are you, yeah, going to my slimming world? Yeah, the locals love me. Here he is again.
Speaker 4:One thing I want to say as well. I actually think for people listening, this is a very good highlight of what we don't do in the UK. I think most and I might offend some people here, but used to included we don't do in the uk. I think most and I might offend some people here, but used to included we aren't. We're very technical with our training but we're not looking at the other countries and making it really like specific to what we're doing. We kind of just train well, but like we were watching all of the top guys in the sport do heat training from pretty much the start of the year, if not like kind of april may time, and most of the uk athletes did not look at kind of stein and people like that and think, oh, maybe we should do this, and I think it's one thing we need to start doing in the uk a bit more, like lenny's saying, it's just looking at what's coming we did say this at euros though we were.
Speaker 1:I think we was all taken aback by, I think, italy as well. I think italy put us into a false sense of security on um, this is like the way that the euros is going, because italy last year was so far from what euros had been in the past that it really wasn't what we expected, and I for one was like, well, they're obviously making it a lot easier, we're not going to be doing as challenging obstacles. We'll have a little, a little taste of what Portugal has in their races, but it won't be the full extent of a Portugal race and it still wasn't, but it had a lot of elements of a portuguese race see, I came away from that slightly differently.
Speaker 4:I thought that that was the first time we saw people that benefited from doing the exact demands of the race and just focusing on the race. I don't think euros and worlds now are going to be standardized to what? To the same every time and Worlds now are going to be standardized to the same every time. I think they're going to be whatever the region or the country is like, because it's just what they've got access to. They don't have the money to pull things in from everywhere around the world.
Speaker 4:You need to be looking at the local.
Speaker 3:That's a little bit part of the challenge as well. When you have the possibility to organize such events in different countries, everyone, every country, wants to give their own little bit of fling to it. For for the athletes as well to to prepare for a specific thing, for the heat, for the hills, for the technical obstacles, for the strength obstacles they're all different aspects of the, of the the thing that is obstacle course racing so then for you, then, lenny, if the euros see the euros is in spain next year yeah what would you want the organizers to say?
Speaker 1:to like athletes like yourself, the ones who are like us as well, the the sort of everyday athletes, the ones who work and the ones who actually probably contribute to the sport more than the pros do, because we're the ones who come every weekend and spend the money all the time. What would you want? How far in advance would you want to know like what style is it going to be? I mean, they don't need to show you every obstacle but uh, at least half a year at least six months I yeah
Speaker 2:yeah I agree, and if they're going to put flares on these, these races in the future to be specific to the way that they race, they, they need to tell athletes as soon as possible because we take it seriously. You're hearing from this podcast, and listeners will know this, that everyone puts a training block in to be prepared if you truly want to do well at the euros, even at an age group level. The age group athletes are athletes. They're in big, big amount of hours of training to do well in these races and yet we're finding out like six weeks before oh, we've got a dice obstacle that no one's ever touched.
Speaker 2:It really got into personally, I think you know it got into my head with it. I'm very strong, I could get through it, but I failed it just because it just got into my head that it was a different obstacle. But if we knew that six months in advance and we were just training on it all day, it came norm because it's not to the people in that country, then there's no advantage, there's no disadvantage to other athletes. I think we just need to avoid the disadvantages. Like they know already what the course is going to be, stein has already been to the spanish race. He found he clearly knows what race is going to be and where it is going to be, because he'd been there, he has the time and the resources to do so yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And then for the everyday one of us another level.
Speaker 3:So you can't really, you can't really compare stein to to the, to to the athletes, uh, who are just just going to these races to to perform at a, well, at a recreational level yeah yeah I.
Speaker 4:I don't think. I think you're right and I think the races need to be better at giving this information out, but I also think it's quite like we can't almost be the victim and be like, oh, we need to know. I think look at the likes of stein who are just doing so much research and that's why they're lost lost man.
Speaker 1:I can imagine that was a real insightful bit we need to do well oh, look, he's going on.
Speaker 4:Sorry, is my wi-fi still playing up?
Speaker 2:yeah, we lost you.
Speaker 4:I guess you can say that's why they're the best yeah, well, I just think if you want to do well, you need to, and I know it's. It's kind of the harsh reality of like, oh, you might not have the time, but if you really want it, you'll make the time and you'll find out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you can find out. Do your research and you'll do your training but you can find out. But then what's the problem with them just saying, right, this is what it's going to be.
Speaker 4:Okay, you haven't got the time to travel over here, but here's the information training amongst yourselves, in your own area oh, I agree, but they're not going to do that because they haven't done that for the last, like however long it's been going now. So I think you just need to kind of take matters into your own hands and be like, well, you know what.
Speaker 3:They're not gonna do anything for me, fuck them, I'm gonna do it all myself because that is that is kind of what's happening, and that's also the thing, if one of the races was was in the uk. I mean, if one of the events was in the uk, like the euros or the the worlds maybe is um, once, once the venue is there, um, and you, you would want your own athletes to do really well, and would you? Would you explain the whole thing to the other athletes or would you keep something a little bit to yourself?
Speaker 1:I'll tell them all really yeah, fair game it's.
Speaker 2:That's why we started the podcast to tell everyone about ocr, tell everyone how to train for it, how to get better at it, because you could be selfish and try to win, or you can be unselfish and want the sport to grow and to have more athletes at a better level. There's gonna be more competition and it'll be more fun. If you the best thing about tough hiking we went out there. I've and never raced in a race where there's like 20, 30 guys that could just around each other the whole time could win in the uk, then you, like you've raced in the uk, you can end up starting the race with 20 guys around you, but you then you're on your tod or by yourself for the next six, six, seven miles. It it's not sometimes not as fun when there's competition. That's why we love the euros. It's just full of competition true, yeah, I could.
Speaker 3:I totally agree. Yeah, it's one. It feels like one big family gathering, doesn't it?
Speaker 2:okay, it's. Yeah, we're all got something going wrong in our heads that we just love this punishment and we're just gonna try to do these crazy obstacles and crazy stuff.
Speaker 3:Yeah yeah, oh, before I forget, I have a question for morgan oh, if he, if he's around yeah, I'm here. I'm struggling, but I'm here morgan, now you're into spartan racing a little bit more. Do you plan on going to the um, to the world championships in America?
Speaker 4:Uh, not, definitely not this year.
Speaker 3:All right.
Speaker 4:I'll be, uh, internationally, I'll be at Havar. That's probably the only one, oh and Tenerife, all right, nice. Tenerife yeah, going to Tenerife.
Speaker 3:So, uh, so you will need to be doing the breaststroke, I mean the.
Speaker 4:So you, uh, so you will need to be doing the breaststroke, I mean the freestyle. Yeah, I'm hoping, like last year, they had a rope that I could just pull on, because that was quite handy. It was a lot quicker for me. I started swimming and then I was like this is not as quick as if I just pulled on that rope yeah, but you have to swim with a log as well.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that was interesting. That was kind of just put the log out, because the log didn't really like stay well, you couldn't really hold on to it, so you kind of had to just like use one hand at a time, and yeah, that was an interesting obstacle.
Speaker 3:Nice.
Speaker 4:Any tips. Any tips.
Speaker 3:Any tips.
Speaker 4:To swim with logs.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, we tend to practice it at the club when we do have a swimming pool available. The way I do it is I just clamp the log between my feet and then I swim freestyle.
Speaker 3:Does that help the buoyancy of yeah, and I don't push the logs with my forwards, with my hands resistance because nine of nine of the nine out of the ten times your face is in the water, so you won't be able to see where the log is going see, that's everyone put their hands like on the log, and I think that's why everyone else did it, but actually that sounds really like smart.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I don't know why I didn't think of that the leg kicking, the constant leg kicking with freestyle is really tiring on your legs and, um, your calf is being uh or being pulled in because you're flexing your feet downwards, so the the risk of of cramping up your calf is also a bit bigger. Instead of swimming breaststroke with with a really big leg movement to the side interesting what I mean yeah yeah.
Speaker 2:So now, now mo has um given us a lecture on being fully prepared and doing the right things to the race, I expect to see a video of most swimming with a log. Okay, that and I and I will. I will keep harassing you about this. Now, mo. Now you've had a go get the log get swimming.
Speaker 4:I'm gonna have to find a like outdoor pool. Yeah, you have to. You have to do your research, mo, because you've got enough time I've been out there, I've raced it already and I'm still not swimming yet yeah, he's even done the testing of it oh, I'm a prime example of what I'm talking about I get it, I, I get it.
Speaker 2:It's just the first time it felt like you was on the podcast just to have a go at us.
Speaker 4:Yeah, but I just do. You know what it is.
Speaker 3:I hear a lot, especially coming out of the Euros.
Speaker 4:I've heard a lot of whinging about things and I'm just like I get the whinging and I'm on everything. We're on side, but we're english and all we do is moan and it's not helping us. Like I say, take it back to stein. I know he has his like time and he can do stuff, but he doesn't win. He just cracks on and does the most research and that's why he does the best and it's he posts all his training, like it's quite clear most of what he's doing. Yeah, but yeah, sorry for lecturing you all. We need it.
Speaker 2:We need it it's a counterbelly corner. For a reason, though, it's fine good, it's good to have it from you I like.
Speaker 4:But I also think lenny's showing us that he did his. He, I mean he bought a device to help track his like heat training. No one one in the UK has done that. Well, that's my of.
Speaker 3:Becky, probably it's quite the investment on on different things, but once you get uh, once you get the data and once you see it all come together and it all work, um, it's all worth it.
Speaker 2:So that's what I was going to ask you, lenny, like we actually haven't congratulated, obviously, you came second on the standard, was it? Yes? Yeah, second, is it yeah? So tough age group as well amazing, amazing effort and amazing result for you. Did you, would you consider that everything came together the way you wanted it to? Then?
Speaker 3:yeah, yeah, I was running, um, I was running the course and uh on the uh. On the second day after the short course I was, I was with the same guys in the start wave and, um, I was texting my my girlfriend, uh, the evening before I was gonna say what join the no. I was texting her. Tomorrow I will be on the podium, that's it.
Speaker 1:Nice, that's what I texted.
Speaker 3:So in my mind I just completely shut it off before the race and I had that competition focus going and, yeah, I felt really strong, I felt really confident. And then, after the first half of the training, I saw a couple of athletes just caving in. I thought, oh, this is my chance so and I need to get to the front and stay there and take away as much time as I can do. And I try and do that and it worked. I came across the finish line first, but then one Croatian guy or Slovenian guy, I can't remember really. He dove 30 seconds underneath my time because of the shooting.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so that's another thing the shooting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my most terrible time is the shooting. Yeah, and I already knew that was one of my weaker points the shooting yeah, my most terrible time is a shooting.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I already knew that was one of my weaker points the shooting, because it was all over the place, uh, at, uh at hungary and at uh belgium in both races. So I knew this. This could be also a thing to uh to improve drastically. So I did a thing that no one would think of ever doing, and that's buy one of the EcoAims sets.
Speaker 1:You actually bought one. Yeah, here's a tip.
Speaker 3:Not just for me, it's also for my club, the Outdoor Pact. I've seen the kids shooting and also also failing the shooting obstacle well, failing really, and I would love to see them improve. So it's for me and for them as well. So it's an investment on my part, but it pays back in the end. That's what it's all about they're not cheap.
Speaker 2:No, that's what it's all about definitely.
Speaker 3:They're not cheap.
Speaker 2:No, that's an expensive bit of kit but they are really awesome to have.
Speaker 3:Okay, really, it's really really cool.
Speaker 1:I just use a water pistol yeah, it's not the same. I know it's not the same, but it's a hell of a lot cheaper yeah, he's got his little ducks, little duck, ducks, ducks to shoot. Yeah, it is, it is. I mean when, when you're coming into that, that last bit, and you're, you're gassing, I mean you must have been really gassing, being in that position, knowing, knowing full well that you was in a position of success. Yeah, you get that boost, but you are also because you know you've got to keep going.
Speaker 1:You've been in the race situation before, so you know you've got to push and we come into that in that heat as well, coming into that situation and shooting. For some reason you can. It is so hard, do you know? It's one of those things when we do need to practice it. We need to practice that thing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the those things when we do need to practice it, we need to practice that thing. Yeah, the guy was standing behind me and he said you need to go lower.
Speaker 2:You need to go lower. You're above the target, so I can't even see it. What do you mean? Let me at the first listen. The first world championships, um. There it was on like um.
Speaker 1:I remember it being on a triangle and there was like a green dot below it for the whole time I was shooting the green dot not the actual target he's got the gun pointing down, and down of course you're not really allowed to shout any help and that, so people are like pointing up, pointing up, I was just like completely shooting it on the floor.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh no. Yes, still did it quicker than Mo that's how we're doing, I guess yeah, yeah, they're going to have that in Havar, aren't they Mo?
Speaker 4:well, I'm pretty sure they didn't have it on the Super, but the race, the Spartan UK race Beast on the weekend, had shooting it. I'm pretty sure right.
Speaker 2:What do we think in?
Speaker 4:the uk race, which is? I mean we normally get things quite late, so what do we actually think of shooting lenny neverland's?
Speaker 3:ports on it. Do we like it?
Speaker 1:do we? Do you think it's a thing that should stay in it?
Speaker 3:yeah, yeah, because it equalizes the playing field a little bit, because if you have an age group, that's really tough, like you said the 25 to 29 or the, the, what is it? The 18? To notice, 16 to 18, those guys are flying as well.
Speaker 1:If you have those, if you have those age groups, it levels the playing field a little bit, because if you have an athlete that's really fast or really strong, you can still catch him with shooting and it's an accuracy test and I know I don't like it as an accuracy test because I think it's a bit boring, but as an accuracy test now that doesn't make sense, but I'm going to keep going anyway. But for an accuracy test, it's a fair test of accuracy yeah, it's 10 times better than the bloody spear throw yeah I would.
Speaker 2:I would happily replace the spear throw with shooting yeah, yeah. Unfortunately it's as boring as, but more correct in terms of there's no, there's no guessing, there's no accident, or we go, went in and came out because we I don't know who would experience something like that, but it's, it's horrible you know, although I do go on do you know where it fits perfectly in the team race?
Speaker 1:go on. Why is that?
Speaker 3:the shooting fits perfectly in the team race because you need. You can imagine what did you. What did you need? One hit or three hits with the team race, because I didn't do it, uh three, three hits three hits three hits per person, so you would have to hit the target nine times yeah, yeah, I guess yeah, so it makes it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I see where you're coming from.
Speaker 3:Yeah so there. So there's a lot of time, that's being lost.
Speaker 1:That's almost the penalty back.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and imagine if you'd have the penalty going up the stairs, going down, and then you have to shoot the nine times. Shit, that's a lot of time.
Speaker 1:So you can almost gain a little bit of the penalty back, even in the normal race with the shooting. Yeah, Never thought about that. That's 30 seconds you can claim back yeah yeah yeah so lenny, we've been through your training.
Speaker 2:Yeah, anything else you need to to let us know about your training and how you've got to where you are in ocr, because, performing at the level you are, you're very much at the top. Well, no, sorry you are, you are at the top of age group. Yeah, so you know that, because I think we would happily say that we're getting a podium at a European Championships is, I would say, is world level like? Because, because we've all been to the world championships, we know that it can be slightly more diluted than a european championship. So, as an athlete, you would always say, if you're performing at a high level at the euros, you, you're performing at world level. So how is there anything else that? What else has got you there? Is it just the discipline in the training or yeah, definitely, definitely the discipline in the training.
Speaker 3:But, um, if things don't go your way, um, don't panic. Look at your training plan again and you know if you're having a bad week or a bad month, even just cherry pick, cherry pick the best trainings, the trainings you like. But also look look at the training, if it has, if it has any use in your training plan, and make it. You know, be creative, make it, make it specific. Yes, make it specific to the event you want to train for. If you're going to sweden and do some strength obstacles, you know, build up your strength, do some more strength training, but be creative with your strength training and also be specific yeah, nice.
Speaker 2:And what are you going to? The world championships? Oh, definitely hell, yeah, how are you changing your block? Because I suppose now is probably. You've come out rested, recovered from Euros at this point. This is the point where we probably start all thinking about how we're putting the block in. We're like nine, ten weeks away, aren't we? It's the perfect time to put a block in.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm keeping up with my aerobic base, so the endurance runs will go up in distance again and the weekly distances will go up again, along with the strength trainings. So I usually do two to three strength trainings a week, but I might bump it up to four. A little bit of a lighter strength training or a little bit more balance, or combine it with uh, an uphill, um, an uphill training.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what we? We noticed that it's very short, sharp, uh spicy heels. I'd say that even more so than euros. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, it's a little bit of the terrain here, okay, Good.
Speaker 2:Is that a joke? You're in the Netherlands. It's a sarcasm.
Speaker 3:No, no, but you know, I live at the coast. Okay, the west coast of the Netherlands. I live on an island actually. Oh wow yeah, it's connected by three bridges, but it's still an island.
Speaker 2:So you've actually got hills.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we have dunes here, and the average percentage of one of the dunes should be around 30% to 40%. So it's a pretty steep but short climb.
Speaker 2:How many seconds does the climb take? Do you reckon?
Speaker 3:10 to 20.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's short, very short.
Speaker 3:It's got big dunes and it can take up to two minutes.
Speaker 1:That's what you want.
Speaker 2:yeah, You've got the perfect terrain to get on those tempo in on that terrain get you perfect for the World Championships.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I always blast, uphill.
Speaker 2:You're going fresh fresh old and tempo again. Practice dave sent me a very long message about fresh, old and tempo I know after he sent me a very long message he sent you a very long message
Speaker 3:that's a nice thing to do I didn't.
Speaker 4:I didn get a message, so does that mean I was correct?
Speaker 2:No, you just wouldn't read it no. Check your inbox you have probably got one, Lenny, since you started in 2022, obviously you've missed out on the development of OCR. What's your perception of it? Do you think it's an established sport or do you think it's still a small sport?
Speaker 3:no, it's, it's definitely getting there. Um, I don't think it's. It's well, it's almost. It's almost there where it should be, at least how I think it should be. Um my perception of the the last couple of years what was the first European Championship? Was it 2016?
Speaker 1:Yes, that was in the Netherlands.
Speaker 3:No, it was in the Netherlands. It was at Strong Viking, I think.
Speaker 2:Yes, and then it was at another destination.
Speaker 3:I went to the 2017 one 2017, yet it was near Amsterdam, I think.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:It was raining. That is an Italian race.
Speaker 3:I saw the videos and I saw the obstacles of that and it looked as challenging as it does now, maybe even a little less challenging, but it might be the the nostalgic video feeling I think back then they did very good courses and obstacles, just not necessarily.
Speaker 2:I'd say they've learned loads about where they distribute obstacles now and how to make a good race.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they've learned how to organize a race a lot yeah, yeah, because that one that had so many teaming, like they didn't have enough sandbags. When you got to the sandbags they were all broken it was all broken. There was things that didn't work. Things got taken out very early. You had these little scanners that obviously didn't twiggle and that lasted one race you had to scan. You said to scan if you completed an obstacle, but you didn't.
Speaker 3:you said to scan if you completed a obstacle, but at the um you didn't have the FISO rules, did you At the 2018 and the 2017. Lenny.
Speaker 2:I've spent two hours at an obstacle just trying to complete it. Yeah, Cause you, cause it was just, if you didn't complete it, then you, you you're out of the race?
Speaker 4:Yeah, so I spent two hours waiting there.
Speaker 3:I Just if you didn't complete it then you're out of the race. You have to do it, yeah, so I spent two hours waiting there. I still. I think that's the real obstacle course racing.
Speaker 2:Would you prefer that, do you?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:What Mandatory completion of obstacles? Yeah.
Speaker 3:Or at least penalties at the obstacle. Yeah at the obstacle. Yeah, that's also where, where I um what I well, um what I was looking at at 2017.
Speaker 3:I went and looked, looked at the the ocr series in 2017, where uh t-bow was running the world championships yeah and man, the urban sky obstacle, the, the finisher obstacle, wow, with the flying monkey bars and the ovals, and well, you name it. But if you fail you would have to do the penalty and then, after you're done with the penalty, you would have to do the obstacle again, oh yeah, and then yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:It was amazing, you saw the race unfold at the end, because it was, I think, in that recording. There was three races with tier belt at that point and that one of them failed.
Speaker 2:It then had to go do the sandbag in the sea, then tear belt carried on, then he failed one he had to go yeah and they they just they kept failing or not failing, and then they had to do the obstacle at the penalty, at the obstacle, and I do prefer those because you just know where you are in a race. You don't feel disheartened as much.
Speaker 3:And now it's all moved towards the finish line, towards the last penalty and the shooting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:And that's the exciting part now.
Speaker 2:I don't know if it was that exciting. It was pretty horrible again that penalty, Not as bad as Hungary.
Speaker 1:I know because we're probably going to be moving on in a bit. But just how do you feel? Uh, because Finlay brought this up on pint size and I want to go into it with another athlete. But how do you feel? We felt we were let down with coverage on this year's Euros um, yeah, the coverage could have been a little bit more. Yeah, definitely well, we didn't see any of it apart from the start yeah so it's a bit annoying really.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna have a little rant, because finley did time. I'm all for it on this. Well, so here's one right how the 100 meters are getting the limelight of the full coverage, the real great spectacle, and then the rest of us, the ones who probably have the most people participating in the sport and funding the 100 meters, had the start line and that was it. Do you not believe or agree? I'm probably putting words into work mouths, but surely it would have been such a spectacle to actually have that 3k and 15k race witnessed by everyone else, to see these top athletes like Stein and the Portuguese guy I can't remember how to pronounce his name, but Gonzalo.
Speaker 3:Gonzalo, yeah.
Speaker 1:You wanted to see them two race. I mean, those two had a battle of battles you know, I mean, that was like Valentino Rossi and Jorgo Lorenzo stuff. It was just there was beef there, but we didn't even get to see it. No one got to see it. They just saw the 100 meters and the start and the finish line.
Speaker 3:No, I agree with that. There should be a little more on the spectatability side of things. Yeah, definitely yeah there is yeah, I think there should be like uh live cameras or drones, uh following the elite, yes, but also following following the, the age groups or the teams, so people at home they can watch the live stream on YouTube but it also switches to cameras on the course.
Speaker 2:I don't know if you I'm going to mention it on this because I know this is no CR podcast, but I am going to say the word High Rocks. But High Rocks, world Championships they're recording. Obviously it's very, it's very, it's much easier because it's on a track. But this just the highlight reel that they did for the elites. They followed all the elites around. But they also did one for like a very short snippet for age group races. That one there were. Don't know if you've seen that, uh, lenny, or ships, you've seen that?
Speaker 2:their coverage of they did like, yeah, they did, um, they did. It was only like a highlight reel for the age groups, which I do think is is enough, but they was like this person. This person came first. This person came first in their age groups and they showed little snippets of their race and I think that was quite nice. Yeah, and, and it didn't doesn't take that long to do that. But and all races are following the leaders round with like a camera or you know what, you know what would be a good idea.
Speaker 3:What just popped into my head right now is if, uh, if someone, um, if someone took on um the responsibility of reporting, uh, for the age groups. So having a live reporter um read up the the names like you have at the start, but then during the race. So, oh, right now we have at kilometer seven. This is the number one. Number two, following behind this and that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, to be fair, all they need to do is they just need to have a relay coming back to the commentator from halfway point, as soon as you go over that with the timing chip we have a little bit of a live stream once the first guys from age groups or girls from age groups come over the hill and then oh, here we go.
Speaker 3:Here's the first one yeah and the second one.
Speaker 2:I think we're trying to be very much an elite pro sport and we forget that the age group racing has is paying for the sport. Um yeah, it's best same way that triathlon works.
Speaker 1:Triathlon age group races pay for the sport why are we always focusing on the 100 meters?
Speaker 4:don't know about that one ships because it's Is it going in the Olympics Because that's the easiest thing to get into the Olympics. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, they're not paying for it, are they?
Speaker 3:No, I think they have that down.
Speaker 1:And it is an easier one.
Speaker 4:It's an easier one if you don't understand.
Speaker 1:Sorry. Yeah, I'm not hating on the 100 metres, I just feel. No, definitely not, yeah, I I just I do believe that the athletes in all the other races do need to get their highlighted reel at least.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you think they could shift the spotlight right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1:To the right.
Speaker 2:Well, lenny, you've just proven it today and I hope the listeners well, listeners already know this because we got bang on about, because we're all age group athletes, but you've bought special equipment, you've put a gun, you, you heat trained, you've put blocks in, just, and I'm not not down playing it, but it is just to be an age group champion. But there's so much work that goes into being an age group champion so that should be appreciated by by people and seen by people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a sacrifice, it's a huge sacrifice and yeah you know, having that under your, I mean it's something that me and darren is striving for. I mean, even if mo wasn't competing in the elites because we we need that sort of representation he'd be battling it out to be an age group champion as well, and it's it's. It is such a high accolade to have that yeah against other people because of like having that hardness yeah yeah, no, I get what you mean.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it takes a lot of. It takes a lot of work, research, dedication, definitely, um, and I think people shouldn't be, shouldn't be scared to try this. You know, if you use, like you said there, and if you really want it or, morgan, if you really want this, you will get there well before we move on to the most important thing, lenny, what's next for you?
Speaker 2:like for for me personally, I I would say that if you're reaching the top of age group, you've got to be, you've got to be confident that you're now, you're now edging your way to be an elite athlete. Yeah, you, you are, you are definitely you were, you could even place yourself in the league right now and you're doing very well. So what is next step for you?
Speaker 3:well, um, if I have the, if I get the chance to, to get the title skin, uh, or get this at least a second title for at the world, yeah, um, then I would be happy and I would be really happy running in the elite. Yes, yeah, no problem, I started in the elite actually.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you said In Hungary.
Speaker 3:I ran in the elite and I came 42nd.
Speaker 2:Nice.
Speaker 1:That was my first ever Euros and I had a cramp in my calf as well.
Speaker 3:It was a tough course.
Speaker 2:Good course that one. Oh yeah course it was real fast, real flat, yeah and sure the shortest, shortest standard course we've ever done.
Speaker 3:It was only like an hour around the lake. Around the lake, that that real long, long, long distance running yeah, yeah that was dreadful that bit broke me a bit yeah.
Speaker 2:Good, well, yeah, let's wait until you get your title at the World Championships, and then let's see you in the elites.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, look forward to it.
Speaker 2:I think I don't know if our esteemed colleague Mo is ready, because we're going to hand you over we'll give it a go alright.
Speaker 4:K we'll give it a go do you want us to put?
Speaker 2:our cameras off. Mo does that help?
Speaker 4:nah, worst case if it all goes tits up, I'm just going to send it to you, ok.
Speaker 2:Lenny knows what's coming up. Don't get too excited.
Speaker 1:Lenny relax. This is the only reason Lenny knows what's coming up.
Speaker 2:Don't get too excited, Lenny. I'm too excited. Relax. This is the only reason Lenny's here.
Speaker 4:Come on, Mo. No, I'm not going to lie. I don't think it's 100% finished. And also, obviously, I've only seen Lenny race a few times and it's quite hard to kind of judge him on things. So I'm very open for this car to change. But you can argue amongst yourselves.
Speaker 2:Let's discuss.
Speaker 4:Let me try and share. Hang on One second. Let's see if this works. We in.
Speaker 2:Wait for it, it's loading. Oh, there you go. Look at that. Yeah, we're in.
Speaker 1:It's ripped as well, and there we have Len it's loading, we in, look at that. Yeah, we're in, it's ripped as well.
Speaker 3:And there we have Lenny's card. Wow, that's really cool.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it looks good, right, we're going to go through your stats. Sorry, I'm laughing.
Speaker 1:I like that.
Speaker 4:Go on yeah, I bet. Has Darren now gone to look and see if he's beaten? Yeah, that's what I was looking at.
Speaker 1:I saw your head go down.
Speaker 4:I was like oh hang on. What's going on here, right? So, benny, yeah, first we'll start with your speed. Now I've got you at 85 again. Most of these I'm not really sure, it was just kind of from seeing you race a few times I think you're fast.
Speaker 2:You're definitely faster than Darren agreed how fast you are, I wasn't too sure respectable 85, I like that are we all in agreeance just before we move on, though, lenny how many bands did you lose at the Euros?
Speaker 3:zero zero.
Speaker 2:Okay cool, that's fine, we can carry on.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's. We'll get to that one in a second, darren. But there's a reason he's higher right agility this is the only one that was really stumping me because I didn't know how agile you are. But obviously you've got a football background so you played a bit of football. That keeps you quite agile, but 85 again.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm pretty happy with that. Yeah, I'm pretty happy with that.
Speaker 4:Would you say your speed's higher than your agility, or are they about the same? What would you?
Speaker 3:No, they're about the same, yeah.
Speaker 4:Okay, agility, or are they about the same? What would you know? They're about the same. Yeah, okay, yeah. And now going on to your, our next one, which is your compromise running. So you're running under duress or running and obstacles kind of put together. Now I think that's where you really shine. I think you've got quite good at that. I think all the dutch are quite good at that, from the training centers and the styles of training they're doing. But yeah, we've got you in 87 oh, that's just perfect I love that no one ever argues these I'm waiting.
Speaker 3:We're just a lot.
Speaker 4:So a lot on the compromised running yeah, you've been playing with your playing card, so it's gotta be high yeah, people are definitely to be using that workout. Endurance again one I wasn't too sure on, but I didn't. From what I've seen, you don't do loads and loads of really long races like the ultra stuff. I think you've got quite good endurance.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the recreational stuff was only the long running.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so I've got you an 80. Again, it can improve, but we want to see a couple of ultras out of you before that happens.
Speaker 3:Will do.
Speaker 1:I've seen him perform very well at OCR series and that's 20k and he runs very, very strong.
Speaker 4:Right, moving on to your power.
Speaker 1:Yeah 84?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, right moving on to your power 84 yeah 84 is good
Speaker 2:you want more he wants less 84 is a good start we need to get Lenny down a point.
Speaker 1:I've done my maths he will get down a point in a minute.
Speaker 4:done my maths, he will hit down a point in a minute maybe.
Speaker 3:What is your deadlift, Aaron? I?
Speaker 4:don't deadlift.
Speaker 3:You don't deadlift.
Speaker 2:Only to stay pliable. What's your?
Speaker 1:deadlift, then, lenny, you must deadlift all the time 125. Kg, yeah, not bad.
Speaker 4:How much do you weigh?
Speaker 2:he's weighed 64 kilos, that's actually quite good let's let's talk bench press and it's actually really good we don't push.
Speaker 3:I've never bench press before oh, there you go, I'll join that contest Only losers.
Speaker 1:Benchpress, who've got short T-Rex arms.
Speaker 4:Right, moving on to your highest mark on your card. Now again, you can disagree with this or you can add it up. This was mainly based off Darren's card, because he lost bounds and you didn't, so you had to be higher than darren.
Speaker 3:So we've got you at an 89 yeah, happy with that technical ability yeah yeah, 89 to 90 yeah, because.
Speaker 4:So yeah, oh oh, he wants one more. We can push you up to a 19. I'm uh, I'm happy, I'm happy with a little. I'll do that now, we'll. Uh, oh, he's putting him up, we'll do it live, live change.
Speaker 3:I'm a highly technical climber no, no, no, yeah he's.
Speaker 1:He's better than me and I was an 89 hang on.
Speaker 2:Can I wait? I know we're going through the card, but Lenny has just mentioned something there that he's you've been. You're a technical, you're a good climber yeah can I and back even more can I back this up?
Speaker 3:yeah?
Speaker 3:the first race of the. I want to hear, I want to hear it the the first race of the season, the short course. Um was at a local, local club and they put on a low rig gibbons and everyone was trying the, the chicken wing, and I was like no, no, or the, the leg hook, the figure four, and it was a pretty hard obstacle. It was like no, no, or the leg hook, the figure four, and it was a pretty hard obstacle. It was like five gibbons and with wooden sticks, so not even aluminium sticks. So I was trying to do the figure four and I couldn't figure it out. Or the chicken wing, it really hurt my elbow. So I was thinking you know, I'll do it, bent arms. So I did, I do it, bent arms. So I did, I did a bent arms and it was faster than the other guy who did it with the figure four.
Speaker 2:So you know right, you can have 90, it's fine that's a believable. It's a believable story, I'll take it we'll give you 90 lenny. No arguing here, we're happy with that, it hasn't changed your 85, though I don't know what's going on no that's staying at 85 for a minute. Do you know? Someone asked me the other day do you actually work out the average of all this?
Speaker 1:No Do you know what I normally do.
Speaker 4:Because I can't work out the average, I just count what number came up the most and then that's the mean.
Speaker 2:You can't no wait.
Speaker 4:That's the mean yeah, I don't know what it is but yeah but that's normally what I do. And then if it looks like it doesn't, if it looks like it wouldn't be a fifa card, yeah, I'll add one or take away one. So if I put 85 because there's two 85s on there and it looks still looks a bit wrong, then I'll add one or take away one. So if I put 85, because there's two 85s on there and it still looks a bit wrong, then I'll add Okay, don't admit anymore. Or take away.
Speaker 2:It's not the way I thought these cards were done.
Speaker 4:But you can carry on. Everyone's happy with the cards. No one's have we had a complaint that the maths isn't.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've had a discussion with someone about it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, the maths is. There's no maths. I can't do maths, that's not in our remit. Okay, right, moving on to your next one, which is your strengths. Now we've gone 80. Again, you're a smaller athlete, a bit lighter. Yeah, still very strong by the sounds of your deadlift, but I think this is probably one of your weaker ones, maybe potentially yeah, yeah, I think so.
Speaker 3:No, 80 is a good one great, great fighting talk there yeah really, really argued that point, lenny you know there's always room to grow with the strength.
Speaker 1:So do you see yourself wanting to try and become plus one? Sorry, do you want to become stronger? Yeah, a little bit it's funny isn't it because we're always just trying to adapt for the race. So if the race dictates it, then we want to be stronger. If the race dictates, we want to be more agile.
Speaker 3:I don't know, it's just a weird thing no, you know, it's it like we said, it's specific with the race, but, um, you can always do a lot of stuff with with strength, strength and agility and and speed. There there are three really big components in the racing. If you don't have the strength or the muscle, the muscular endurance, you're gone.
Speaker 4:Yeah nice, and then your last one which this was the hardest one for me, because I was really struggling with what to put, and now I know you're a swimmer and you're a keen footballer, and all this new information I feel like we've got. We could have some other ideas, however. I think this is true, you are our favourite. Well, we probably shouldn't say that, but you're definitely my, my favourite fan sorry to everyone else who listens no, I think this one is really cool.
Speaker 3:It's to keep this one yeah, you are.
Speaker 4:You are the super fan, you are the original yes, I mean you're the first, the first fan you're.
Speaker 1:You've made it as part of our furniture when I think of accountability corner I think of len furniture.
Speaker 3:When I think of accountability corner, I think of lenny and I think listeners might not know that, but between us three it's always been that, and now they can enjoy this with us yeah yeah, you know, and then from the one of us, I really enjoy listening to you guys and coming up with ideas and I love, love the fact that that you reach out to to the fans and to the listeners. But, hey, do you guys have any more ideas or subjects to talk about? Let us know. Or what do you think about this? What do you think about that? I love that. The questioning back, that's. That's really good.
Speaker 1:I love the fact that it gone down Well.
Speaker 2:I was just going to say I love the fact that it gone down. Well, I was just going to say there's just nothing out there, from a racist point of view, that just tells us how we should be training or how we should even be looking at OCR, Cause it just it consumes you if you just don't know what you should be doing. So it's yeah, that's what we've always tried to do A bit, a bit of normalization to the craziness, yeah.
Speaker 1:And yeah, and it speaks wonders the the fact that we created this podcast to reach people that are basically just like us, because we know for a fact there's people out like us out there, and just having people come back to us just I mean even the top athletes come back to us and they're just like us and it just goes to show that we are all out there doing the same thing fighting the good fight yeah, yeah, no exactly and I'm 100 sure lenny, like listeners, will definitely get something out of this conversation, even if it's just your how you got to where you were at the european championships or just how dedicated and your background and how you found the sport it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's. Everyone wants to hear how everyone's found OCR because, no, it's just such a strange sport to to find.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it is, but it's it's. It's such a fun sport and it has so many aspects you can improve yourself on. Um. This sport, besides besides football or swimming is one of the most diverse sports you could ever do. It has so many challenges, you can improve on, so many aspects and the community is. It's a pretty close community actually. I think you know everyone's in the same, uh, in the same boat. So, yeah, no, I love it is that what keeps you accountable?
Speaker 3:yeah, also yeah, and knowing, knowing that, uh, um, anyone can, uh, anyone can improve themselves really well inside of the uh, the season, or maybe the, the next season, maybe the the, the people who were running behind you. Now you have trouble with catching up yeah, we've all been there is it before we go lennie?
Speaker 2:is there anything you like, any questions that you've always wanted to ask us, or about the uk racing, or just us in general?
Speaker 3:um, no, I would like to say, um, if you guys ever come to the netherlands, uh, for a race, or if you have like a free weekend or a week off, um, just come to one of the training venues and try to meet up with someone, even if it's the guys that hang on or at the Outdoor Pact. You know, you're always welcome to come and train and we can share ideas, share knowledge.
Speaker 1:Yeah, likewise that goes backwards to here as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know, I've been to the UK and the community is so close. It's really cool. Yeah, it's like, it's like coming home. You know it really is you, really you? You guys really picked this up really well you should definitely, for it wouldn't be like.
Speaker 2:So it's not always the most competitive race these days, but definitely the most enjoyable. And the best race to come do is, uh, now that there's two races in one day is the nuts challenge. I would definitely advise you to do that, because that is 20th um. There's there's a 3k and also the 7k as well on the same day now, which is really really interesting is that the 20th of j?
Speaker 1:No, it's August, I believe They've changed the date 20th of August.
Speaker 2:Yeah, is it August 30th, I believe 30th of August, yeah.
Speaker 3:Right, I would have to look in the agenda. I hope it can be there. I'm not making any promises.
Speaker 2:No, no, you can camp there as well and it's just, yes, a great atmosphere. Oh, yeah, yeah, definitely, rumble always go to. Dave will never I don't think until his dying day will ever miss a hang on race. No, yeah, they Rumble will always hang on.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, definitely you guys will be in hang on as well.
Speaker 2:I won't be, but I don't know if mobile ships will be ships loves it.
Speaker 4:I won't be there this year because I'm. That's the same weekend as tenerife, unfortunately oh, he's a spartan racer.
Speaker 2:Now forget about it.
Speaker 1:Forget, forget about now that I'm not injured. I am looking at other races in my calendar cool.
Speaker 2:Well, lenny, it has been an absolute pleasure and, um, I'm not too sad that your card now beats mine, but oh yeah we'll be, we'll be okay, but yeah, no, honestly, lenny, thank you so much for coming on.
Speaker 3:It's great to talk to you. Yeah, thank you for having me I'm really awesome.
Speaker 1:Now we're honored to have you pleasure yeah, I'm super fan.
Speaker 2:I I feel like I'm fanstruck.
Speaker 3:I'm starstruck.
Speaker 2:Wait, Lenny, this is my present for you before you go oh look, he's got it out. He's got it out. The maths put him up to an 86.
Speaker 4:Wait, does that beat me now though?
Speaker 3:Because I'm really happy with that it beats Russell.
Speaker 2:It does I think so, yeah, oh wow, russell is also pretty quick, isn't he?
Speaker 1:Yeah, russell is really awesome yeah, but we don't like Russell.
Speaker 2:It's the same as you Mo.
Speaker 3:Well, it's just banter, isn't it? Oh yeah, it is.
Speaker 4:Do you know what I'll take that, especially on the more technical styles? I think Lenny's got me at the minute, oh yeah, you've forgotten how to do all the stuff, because you've done the Spartan races.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm just, you have the speed and you would have the speed.
Speaker 4:Just a runner now.
Speaker 3:I'm jealous of your speed right now.
Speaker 4:I'm just jealous of you.
Speaker 1:Lenny it's really cool We've actually got. We've actually got enough cards now to actually go through and actually have proper games or things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we could yeah, you could do like I've watched your speed, like pick. Yeah, like how you would pay top, top drums. We've got enough cards? Yeah, cool. No, thank you so much, lenny, and we will definitely see you at death. Well, whether it's a race? Yeah, well, well, I'm not there, but um this ships is a spirit. Exactly, yeah, yeah, no, thank you so much.
Speaker 1:But one phone before we go.
Speaker 2:Okay, you go on. You finish it off for us.
Speaker 1:I've just got to say because this is coming out on Saturday yeah. Congratulations to my new wife for being with me.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Is she going to listen to this afterwards On the day? Yeah, On the day.
Speaker 1:Can we listen to this when you're doing your vows. This is actually my speech, this whole episode.
Speaker 2:I'm just gonna play any words, any words you want to say now, ships, you know um no, brilliant. So he's so excited, right well, this will be coming out on shipley's wedding day, so everyone send him lots of messages and just have his phone on loud during the ceremony.
Speaker 3:Well, congratulations in advance, chipley. Thank you very much to you and your wife, to your new wife, and I will be seeing you as a married man the next time.
Speaker 1:You will indeed. I'm off the market. Sorry, ladies.
Speaker 3:Shame, we lost another one.
Speaker 1:And guys, right, this shame, we lost another one.
Speaker 2:And guys, right, let's go before we get loads of fan mail for ships yeah.
Speaker 1:I wish cheers, lenny, thank you so much, and yeah, it's great to see you.
Speaker 2:See you guys. See you later. Bye, see you guys. See you later. See you later, bye, bye, bye, bye.
