Hi, I'm Amy Jo Johnson. played Kimberly the Pink Power Ranger on Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. And I'm co-writer with Matt Hodson on MMPR The Return. And you're listening to the Oblivion Bar podcast. Welcome to the Oblivion Bar podcast with your host, Chris Hacker and Aaron Norris. Welcome to episode 175 of the Oblivion Bar podcast. I'm Chris Hacker, commander of the armies of the North, general of the Felix legions, loyal servant of the true emperor, Marcus Aurelius, father to a murdered son, husband to a murdered wife. And I will have my vengeance in this life or the next. And joining me is the most wicked through and through. and the town doorknob in munchkin land. co-host and BFF Aaron Oles. I don't even want to fucking respond to that introduction because you just gave yourself like the most badass. My name is Maximus Desmus meridius. You know what? Vengeance. And you give me the best way to bring folks together is to give them a real good enemy. That's right. and you're also the town doorknob in munchkin town. Everybody gets a turn. Everybody gets that turn baby. It's a Wow. Well, that's what you talk to me. He's just mad. He's just mad because I was a little bit late to recording. I give you so many great intro each week. You do. But this is fucked. I hate this. All right, buddy. Welcome back to the Oblivion Bar podcast this week for episode 175. It is double feature time. Aaron, we are reviewing both Gladiator 2 and Wicked Part 1. And guess what, Chris? What? I own your house. Okay. Okay. What is that? What's that a reference to? That was Denzel's character in Gladiator 2. Double or nothing? Double or nothing. Well, anyway. It took me a second. Well, Chris, guess what? What? Chicken butt. Do you know how people can support the Oblivion Bar podcast? I don't. Can you tell me how? I can give you a couple of ways. Sure. The first way is by just simply going and dropping a review. The other way you can do it is consider checking out the Patreon, which we actually just released the November issue of the secret menu, which is our monthly newsletter, which is free for everybody. You don't have to be on the Patreon, but it is hosted on the Patreon. So you can go read that for free. But what can they get if they support the show? If you support through the Patreon, you gain access to special weekly episodes called the grid, which is our unfettered, unfiltered, unformatted, raw, raw, raw, the oblivion bar after dark, if you will. extra show each week. you also get a behind the scenes look at how we prepare each episode with, can see the episode transcripts that we use to record as well as a Patreon polls. We give away free stuff all the time, comics stickers. do, we just love taking care of our Patreon members. you can also give it a shot with a free seven day trial. Just go to patreon.com forward slash oblivion bar pod or check out the link in the show notes. No news and notes this week. No errands arcade. No Christmas corner. Nine. It's double feature. No double double feature time. So we have to just get right into it. Let's go and get into our reviews of both gladiator to and wicked part one. Cannonball. Alrighty, here we are. first going to talk about gladiator two everybody. So if you want to skip to the wicked part one review, there'll be a link here in the show notes. Just check that out. It'll just take you straight to that review. If you want to listen to both, let's get into gladiator two again. Let's do it. Spoilers ahead for both films. If you have not seen gladiator two or wicked, take a second, go watch those movies and come back. Aaron initial thoughts on gladiator two. Were you not entertained? Are you not? I was. Were you not entertained actually? Okay. How entertained were you? I will review it at the end, my friend. Don't rush me. Don't make me give away my review. It was good. That's it. That's it. That's it. It was good. You know what's funny is that, and I want to ask you after we get in talking about after I get insane, my part is when Olivia, I went to go see this movie, went to see it at the downtown IMAX at the museum, the NES state museum. And she asked me what we were talking about afterwards. She goes, how'd you feel about it? And I was like, yeah, it was good. Almost the same as that response as you had, which is that I feel like it kind of gave me exactly what I wanted. And I think part of the reason why I had a good time with it, not only because of the setting, the setting was incredible. Aaron, if you remember, this is the movie that we went to go see Ant-Man and the Wasp Quantum Maniac last year. Not a great movie, great movie going experience. But this movie is like, I never expected it to be anything close to the original, right? Because the first gladiator from 2000 is an all timer. It is like one of the bro is coolest movies ever. It's something to watch with your stepdad at like nine p.m. after a couple of Jaeger bombs. This is oddly specific. So what? All right. It's like this tombstone naked. Just all those movies. All those movies are movies you watch with your stepdad after a couple of shots. Yeah. But no. So for me, this I agree. I absolutely agree. Here's here's where I ran into some issues. The gladiator. The first Gladiator, Russell Crowe, Joaquin Phoenix, is a masterpiece. Correct. The theatrical release is one of those rare examples of a masterpiece. I, unfortunately, when I went back to watch it again before this viewing, for the viewing of Gladiator 2, I somehow got roped into watching the, I guess it was the director's cut or the extended cut of Gladiator. And it had so much superfluous, like extra superficial bullshit that was not necessary. It almost ruined the experience for me. Like I'm like I would I think I need to go back and watch the theatrical cut for gladiator just do like what do call it? Like a cleanse, like a cleanse my palate. Yeah. Because gladiator is like already an extremely long movie. Yeah. And that one, it was just there were so many extra, again, additional like narrative aspects. There was definitely like more You know, when he's in the Coliseum and he's fighting or when he's like, when he hasn't gotten to the Coliseum yet in Rome, you know, he's, he's learning to fight with his other people. there's a lot more, dialogue between the other gladiators in him. That's just not really necessary. There's a lot more, subterfuge when it comes to the senators. So there's a lot more that goes into the political schemes of that movie, which I didn't need, you know, there's already enough in it for me and that's giving it lightly. The other thing that. kind of played into this one was like you said, very unlike the first one. Which is interesting because a lot of people are saying that it's too similar to the first one and that's why people aren't liking it. I've heard that complaint. That's what I'm saying. Honestly, and I'll tell you this right now, just initial thoughts. The best thing about the second movie is the credits at beginning. Okay. I'm glad you brought that up. Yes. Because I leaned over to Olivia while we're watching this and I go, this kind of looks like AI. Did you have that thought? I it for a second, but I was kind of hoping that it wasn't because it just looked like oil painting, obviously. Sure. Yeah. It looked like they just threw certain scenes from the first movie. Everyone. Of course, you've seen the movie if you're listening to this, but like the opening credits are basically just scenes from the first movie, but in like an oil painting slideshow type of format. And it just looked a little it looked a little AI ish to me. Yeah, it looked that felt it did feel like I was concerned about it, but I was like, you know what? Until I know I'm not going to say anything. But I will say I'm not going to freak out. It's OK. In my brain, though, the entire time that was at the beginning credits were rolling and it's showing the scenes from the first movie. I'm thinking last time on Gladiator. I will say I rewatched the first one not too long ago and, you know, we've already touched on it. It is a bona fide classic. And part of the reason why I think I love this movie so much is and again, I should probably backtrack. Didn't love it. Really liked it. Okay. I enjoyed myself with this movie because the good part, the parts that the first movie did so well, I think this movie did a good job of building off of it. The one major complaint to build off what you were saying a moment ago, Aaron, about sort of some things that you had some issues with was part of the reason why that first one is so incredible is because almost everything is in camera. Everything is practical. Everything is just, it looks real. Like the tiger, the setting, like everything is just so in camera. And this movie, Almost from the jump, the very first scene is where you have the Roman army coming in and attacking Paul Mascals home world, homeland, excuse me. And the CGI water and the boats just immediately took me out of the movie. Let me ask you this, Aaron, I already told you how I saw it. I sold out the IMAX downtown Indianapolis. How did you see it? Did you see an IMAX? Did you see it just on a normal screen? I saw it RPX at a Regal cinema, which is basically like their version because they have this whole brand new like visual system, is almost, it almost looks like a, like a, I guess like a liquid crystal display. It's the colors were beautiful. They even had this little like brand new intro to the actual screen itself, which was unfortunate because they played it. And then they played it again, with, they ran it. But the second time it had like the, the writing, which was explaining what the screen, what was making the screen special was in, I don't know if it was Latin. or whatever, but it had like the gladiator like Roman font and it was like topical. Yeah. So like they did it once and they did it again. I'm just like, didn't need that. Maybe the second one would have been fine. Yeah, exactly. No, Nicole Kidman for for your screening. Somehow heartbreak feels good in a place like this. No, no, that is AMC. Yeah, I don't think I didn't think I see her. No, I don't think so. All right. Well, Aaron, let's go and get to the summer here to give us a summary for gladiator to. after his home is conquered by the tyrannical emperors who now lead Rome. Lucius is forced into the Coliseum and must look to his past to find strength to return the glory of Rome to its people. Yes, yeah. And that's pretty, I mean, that's essentially the track that we get on almost immediately. Let me ask you this, Aaron. When we first started watching the film, did you know beforehand or did you know throughout the story before it was revealed that Paul Mascaux's Lucius was the son of Maximus? Yes, and... I did know that and the entire time that I'm watching it, I'm just wondering why they couldn't find a kid that looked more like Lucius from the first movie. So I'm like, this is fucking dumb. Yeah. Yeah. And did you like how they went back and sort of retread that scene from the end of the first gladiator and sort of woven in the backstory where Connie Nielsen's Lucilla, who like takes her kid and ships them off and it's like, Hey, you can't be here, bro. Like things are some shit's about to happen. You can't be here because you're going to die again. I wouldn't have had a problem if the kid had any resemblance to the original Lucius. His hair was different. Yeah. Yeah. Like it was so like so jarring how different that kid was from the from Lucius from the first one. And I understand it's probably you know what? I don't understand. You got so much fucking money. so much. much? was it? I mean, we'll talk about it, but the budget of this movie was incredible. It's insane. It's a large amount. You can't find a kid. You can't use CGI. Like you got you got CGI, CGI sharks, man. Yeah. Like fucking come on. Well, let's go back to the beginning a little bit after the success of the first film. Really? Scott's logic on making a sequel was that even though Maximus died at the end of the original film, what happened to Lucius would be left ambiguous considering the questions. about his whereabouts and who he eventually became as a perfect setup for the second film. And that's essentially what we got here. Although the script was finished, the status of the sequel was left up in the air until 2006. Scott stated that DreamWorks Pictures had wanted to make a sequel, but there were differing ideas on the story. had favored the fantasy element and bringing Maximus back to life while the studio wanted to base the film on Lucius. So Crow, he saw the success of that first movie and said, I want back in guys. I know you just killed me at the end of this movie, but I need I want more of this, you know, action here. Of course, if you remember, I can't remember which review we talked about this, but this was the movie that made Russell Crowe the movie star that he is now. Like he had done some bit parts. He'd done some crime movies, some low budget directed TV stuff, but it wasn't until Gladiator in 2000 that really took him into stardom. makes me kind of mad because I feel like Russell Crowe should have been an advocate of this because at the end, Like one of the very last, his last line period in the movie is So like it makes no sense that she had to ship him away. Aaron, it made sense to make another one, I get it. Financially, they want to do another. It's like he's not safe anymore. He's not safe. Yeah. How about this? He's not safe. I know I was thinking like what would have been cool, though, also would have been like maybe Max Missa just got unconscious. And then at the end, like after they drug him off, they like took him to a doctor and he was fine. You bonked on the head. You get a little bunk, a little horny, horny bonk. Coming, you know, finding out that f****g Lucius is his kid anyways. Spoiler alert. So after experiencing financial difficulties in the 2000s, Dreamware pictures, including the rights to gladiator and the rest of the pre 2006 live action film library, sold to Paramount Pictures and the development on the sequel was halted. Over the years, other attempts on the sequel script were made. But Scott said that writers were, afraid to take it on. He also said that he and everyone involved in the original film were too busy. So no one thought about making a sequel. However, in November of 2018, it was announced that Paramount had greenlit the development on the sequel. Scott was in early negotiations once again to serve as director. I think it would have been a giant mistake if they had tried to do a sequel to this film. Although, which we'll talk about here in just a moment, Ridley Scott is 87 years old. He's still kicking. He's still doing good stuff. He's doing Napoleon. He's doing house again. He's doing stuff. Might as well bring him back in. He's already he's still trying to make alien movies. So why not? You know, now, Aaron, here's a little bit of bad news for you. OK. The first and you we actually may have talked about this on the show, but the first trailer for this film currently has twice as many downvotes on YouTube than it does have likes with over 21 million views. has 182 million likes. and 390 million dislikes with the majority saying that they do not approve of the use of Jay-Z's. What more can I say in the trailer? That's pretty fucking stupid, everybody. Why do you care about what's in the trailer? Right. Am I wrong for thinking that that's such a dumb reason to downvote a trailer that is otherwise really cool in my opinion? You know, I'll go watch this trailer. I'll give it its due diligence. And because I don't think I've ever heard that song. What's it's something like God to a king. What's the king to a no or something like that? Like our king to a god or god? What's a god? I probably heard it, but I probably just didn't pay attention to this. It's a trailer. I like it because I mean, that's the thing is like I didn't I did not pay attention. Like one thing I have not said about this movie and I should have said this at the beginning when you were asking me like how I felt about this movie. I will say this about the action sequence sequences in this film. That was the redeeming quality of why I did like it because those action scenes actually had consequences, they had risks. I had a little bit of anxiety. had that thrilling feeling watching some of these battles and I'm like, that's pretty cool. But again, it's just a lot of the story is what took away what really I enjoyed about it. well, let's talk about director Sir Ridley Scott. Sir Ridley Scott knighted by the Queen of Somewhere. England probably I don't know maybe Tanzania New Zealand New Zealand so so let's go back to the beginning. So you got the duelists 1977 did you have you seen it? I have not seen it neither. I Alien 1979. Are playing? Are we playing our fan favorite game? Have you seen it? Have you met alien? I have Love that one Blade Runner Yeah. 1982. Yep. Great movie. Thelma and Louise. Ninety one. Very good. Very good move. Yep. Yep. I don't know if you've heard of this little gem, but Gladiator. it's a pretty good one. I do like it. Two thousand. Yes. OK. Black Hawk Down. This is we're getting into the heater section. Like obviously Alien Blade Runner Thelma Louise. Incredible. But now we're getting into like the heater part. Exactly. This is the point where really Scott had like cemented himself as one of the all time greats. And yes, I've seen Black Hawk Down. OK, now we're getting to Bopper Bomb. Bopper Bomb. Black Hawk Down, American Gangster 2007, Robin Hood from 2010. that's not bad. Is that the one with what's his face? Mr. Crowe? Yes. OK, that's a different one. I'm thinking about a different one. There's a lot of fucking Robin Hood down there. There was like a one like two years ago with Taron Egerton. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. I think that one had Jamie Foxx in it too. Prometheus from 2012. You know what? We talked about this not too long ago. I watched Prometheus and I didn't mind it. Yeah, I didn't mind it. It's not great. It's not great, but it's enjoyable. It's really enjoyable. It's an adventure. If you just forget that this is eventually going to tie into Alien. Yeah, I like it. Standalone. Yeah. Okay. One of my personal favorite movies. The Martian 2015. Matt Damon. love The Martian. I fucking love that movie. Alien Covenant 2017. that's not good. We don't like that one. Off camera to kill. The last duel. I didn't see this one. Very good. Adam Driver. I think it's Jodie Comer maybe. I could be wrong there. Anyway, it's good. It's very good. Okay. House of of Gucky. also Matt Damon as well. And the last dual house Gucci. Not good. Not good. I know it's not good. Gucky people. And I know. Wait, what? Gucky Gucky Gucky Gucky Gucky 2021 was house of Gucci, the way. Napoleon Dynamite 2023. I just I just pictured Joaquin Phoenix. Can I have some of your thoughts? I didn't like Napoleon, by the way. I didn't hear good things. Nope. No good. Aaron. So Ridley Scott is currently 10th on the all time highest grossing directors of all time. Without looking. I mean, he's doing it for a while. He's doing it for a hot minute. For a second. OK. Which movie do you think is his highest grossing? Take a wild guess. Black Hawk Down. Nope. Gladiator. Nope. Alien. Nope. You just got to go down the list. What is it? It's Martian. The Martian. damn. I should have said the Martian. I should have said that one. was my next guess. Which of those films do you think he won an Oscar for best picture? Gladiator. Hold on, let me double check. Yes, there it is. Yeah. Nailed it. Nice. Good job. That's interesting. Again, we just talked about it. Really, Scott, a legend. You know, he like he's he's one of the best just undoubtedly to know that he's only won one Oscar for Best Picture is kind of crazy, especially wild with all the fucking wild about. But Aaron, we talked about it earlier. Budget for this film, two hundred fifty million dollars. So it actually sounds low. Yeah. I mean, we've we've covered several movies where the budget was way higher than that, I think. Yeah, I think basic cable. Blockbuster film is 200 million even. Yeah, 250. That's a good amount, but there definitely have been films that are more expensive spoilers for our future conversation about wicked. That movie is significantly less expensive than this movie. So just keep that in mind. If you've seen both to compare the to compare the two wicked in my opinion, looks way better. Just saying. Although I will say I had no complaints with this movie. The only thing that I have questions about and I'm not even going to say that I hated it. I just have questions. Okay. The monkeys, right? What did you think of the rabid monkeys in this movie? I don't understand the fucking point of a rabid monkey. What happened there? What these monkeys don't exist. Whatever these monkeys are, they never existed. Baboons. They're not baboons either. They didn't have the red butts. No, I don't know. Their jaws were like unclenched. It is really odd. And this like the CGI wasn't terrible. Do you know the Rhino is CGI in this movie? Yes. Rhino looks pretty good. Right. Right. looked amazing. I'm just like in the background to see it while I'm listening. I'm just looking up high like highest budgeted films just so I can like give us about this. What are you looking like? So like number nine was Avengers Infinity War with three hundred and twenty five million. Yeah. Fast X three hundred and forty million. So I'm going to go. It wasn't into the movie. Rise of Skywalker. Four hundred sixteen million. Yikes. Jurassic World. Fallen Kingdom, 432 million. Yikes. And the number one. I know it. Can I guess it? Yeah, go ahead. Is it Zack Snyder's Justice League? No. no. Is it Force? What? Age of Ultron? No, Force Awakens, 447 million. interesting. OK, yeah, I can see that. I think the Force Awakens is one of the better looking of those of Justice League was 300, by the way. I don't understand that. But OK, a lot of slow mo. Slow most expensive these days, All right, let's get in the box office here. Gladiator shares its box office hall with Moana 2 and Wicked Part 1. This was a big weekend for movies. We're so back. Aaron, I have a of a complaint slash observation at the end of this little bit. Remind me to go back to this. But Moana 2, Wicked Part 1, I'm sorry, all three were kind of headlining this Thanksgiving day weekend. which brought in a whopping $425 million domestically, the highest Thanksgiving weekend of all time. It's good use of the word whopping by the way. Thank you. Gladier brought in 111.2 million domestically and 320 million globally. Although it ranks behind both Moana and Wicked, Gladier 2 is set to surpass the first film financially and possibly become Ridley Scott's highest grossing film of all time. Again, that's The Martian. The Martian was at like 620. million worldwide. the fact that this is already at 420 million globally means that this movie is going to be in theaters for another month and a half at least, I would guess through Christmas. There's a, have you ever seen the movie? it's a poly shore film called biodome. Of course you're thinking low. We're thinking globally. You guys are thinking locally and we're acting. I got stupid rat brain. Okay. so the runtime. Hold on. You were supposed to remind me of a thing. You have something to say. You have something to say. Okay. Remind me. Do it again. Hey Chris, before you move into something else, you got something to say. Yes, I do. Okay. Aaron, this is, this is scary. This is scary. It's spoopy. It's, is a spoopy time of the year, everybody, because here are the top 10 high, let's say 11 top 11 weird number. Wait, hold on. Okay, here's the top 15 highest grossing movies worldwide. You ready? From 15 down, ends with us. Alien Romulus, Wicked, Twisters, Moana 2, Kingdom of the Planet of Apes, Bad Boys Ride or Die, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Venom, The Last Dance, Kung Fu Panda 4, Godzilla X Kong, The New Empire, Dune Part 2, Despicable Me 4, Deadpool Wolverine, Inside Out 2. what do all of those movies have in common besides it ends with us? Good actors. For the most part. Yes, but no, that's not what I'm looking for a lot of CGI Yes that but also no, that's not what I'm looking for Disney films Some are that but no, I don't know what they're all sequels or prequels. okay Okay, are you that is not good everybody if we know one thing here on the oblivion bar is that Hollywood always learns the wrong lesson So if all of these movies the most, you know, the most successful films of this year Two of which are billion dollar movies with Inside Out 2 and Deadpool Wolverine. Hollywood's gonna go, you know what people want? More prequels, more sequels. Was Godzilla minus one on there? No, Godzilla minus one, I think is technically a 2023 movie, even though it came out in December. So yeah, I mean, honestly, if you even go back further, top 20, so 20 through 15, Joker, Folly, a do, Garfield movie, A Quiet Place Day One, Gladiator 2, The Wild Robot. So of the top 20, there are one, to three original movies. I am so surprised with how much people trashed on Venom that it's up there that high. I did see Joker though. I'm not going to lie. Not bad. I hated it passionately. Hated it. So the runtime, let's talk about the runtime real quick before we jump around a little bit more. It's going to be a real quick segment. The runtime of Gladiator 2, two hours and 28 minutes. And then it is seven minutes shorter than the first film. Now, the one that the one you watched the director's cut or extended, whatever. How long was that? Do remember? you know what? I'm going to look it up real quick. Probably well over three hours. But speaking on that, while you're looking that up, seven minutes shorter than the first film. I don't know. I'm trying to contextualize that and think about if I if it felt like that. And I don't think it did. I will say at one point in the movie, I did get up and pee. So that's usually a pretty good barometer on how long a movie is. However, I did drink an entire Coke before we even got to the monkey part. So that could have something to do with it. I'm not sure. But I will say that like this didn't feel too long. It just it felt about as long as it is, which is about two and a half hours. So it says the 171 minute. So it's almost three hours. Yeah. So it's like that's like two. 50 minutes. It's like Avengers in game long. Yeah. So OK. Well, Aaron, let's get into the cast here. Obviously, this is one of the stronger parts of the film. Yes. So you got Paul Miscowell as Lucius Verus Aridius, aka Maximus Jr. MJ. Pedro Pascal as General Acasius. Connie Nielsen as Lucilla. Denzel Washington, who just crushed it as Macronus. Joseph Quinn as Emperor Gatta and Fred Heschinger as Emperor Karakalla. Karakala. just the entire time in my brain, all I kept thinking is really fucked up Weasleys. Right. Also, before you continue on, these two are the worst part of this movie. worse. Like I didn't realize you could make a worse character than that little blonde bitch from Game of Thrones. But these two are it. Talk about Joffrey. Yeah. OK. That actually the Empress Karakala is basically just Joffrey. Yeah. Right. I don't, just, hate the, the sort of fall from grace with Joaquin Phoenix's character from the first one who was awesome. I, and this is, don't know. I didn't like any of it. And I love Joseph Quinn. He's one of my favorite young actors in Hollywood right now. Not, not a good role for him in my opinion. Are they supposed to be his kids? Like Joaquin Phoenix's kids? I don't know. I'll look that up while you continue on. I actually have, I meant to look that up earlier and I forgot, but I will look that up. Continue on. So you got Alexander Kareem as Ravi. Derek Jacoby as Senator Gracchus and Rory McCann as Tagula. Connie Nielsen and Sir Derek Jacoby are the only returning cast from the first film. If you remember, know, Senator Gracchus was one of the masterminds behind the, I guess the coup in the first one. And then Connie Nielsen, which obviously Lucilla was, you know, sister to Wauke Vicks' character and mother to Lucius. Timothy Chalamet, Miles Teller, Austin Butler, Richard Madden. and Paul Miskell met or auditioned for Lucius. Also Denzel Washington told Gayetti in a video interview in November, 2024 that a gay kiss between him, I don't know why they got to call it a gay kiss, but a kiss between him and another actor got cut out of the film's final act. And I want to say that that's probably that scene where he's telling these other senators that he owns his house. Yep. Kind of to like emasculate him. Denzel goes to say, actually kissed a man in the film, but they took it out. They cut it. I think they got chicken. I kissed a guy full in the lips and I guess they weren't ready for that yet. I killed him about five minutes later. Washington said, so I'm guessing it probably wasn't that guy then. Yeah. It may not have been him. It might've been, you know what? It might've been, one of the emperors. Yeah. I think then, yeah. Yep. Barry Kiyogan was originally cast as emperor Gettah about, but had to drop out due to scheduling conflicts, probably salt burn. I'm guessing I don't know that for a fact, but that seems the timeline sort of lines up perfectly at the beginning of the movie. Lucius is actually introduced as Janice in Roman mythology and representing actually ancient Roman coins. Also Janice was a double faced God foreshadowing his true identity as Lucius. All right. What the next part here, Aaron, I kind of want you to read through only because you just, was just looking up a moment ago on whether comedists is related to both of the new emperors. And I think this next part, might answer this. So go ahead and go and take the next part here. Yeah. To me, like that's the reason I'll get into this. That's what I was kind of hoping for because they kind of had that same like look. Yeah. But they also had that fucking crazy attitude. Like, yeah, I don't know what's going on with them. Like total inbred has taken over the family. Yeah. Like, I got a monkey for a senator. And he's on my he's on my team now. He's on my team. Everybody hail the monkey. When it comes to the main characters in the film, there's a mix of those inspired by real historical figures and those who aren't. instance, talking about the brothers, Gettah and Karakalla, played by Joseph Quinn and Fred Heschinger. They're portrayed as tyrannical co-emperors and are based on actual historical figures who rule during the film's timeframe. Historically, the brothers initially shared power with their father, Emperor Septimus Severus. Ooh, think I've, Septimus, I think maybe, but after his death, they... ruled jointly, but were in constant conflict, ultimately leading to Karakalla having get it killed. While the film touches on the historical event, the depiction of the murder and its aftermath is largely fictionalized. In reality, Karakalla ruled alone for six years after Gettys death, and there's no historical evidence to suggest he appointed his pet monkey as his second in command. Karakalla was eventually succeeded by a macronus. However, the real macronus differs significantly from the character portrayed by Denzel Washington. in the movie. guess to sort of contextualize all that, Commodus is not related to these two. Yeah. Which is like kind of crazy. Yeah. It just to me, that would have been kind of a good tie in like that. You know, that was maybe like some children that he didn't have. again, to me, that would have added a nice kind of depth to it, to the to the conflict, because imagine imagine the true son of of Maximus getting revenge on the true children of sorry, the true children of Commodus. Right. Yeah, that would have been that would have been cool. I think there's a point in the movie where Paul Mascals Lucius goes into the crypt and picks up and sort of uses the same armor and sword as Maximus from the first one. And I thought when you've gone that far, when you do that, which I did not like, fuck it. Make them related to fucking walking Phoenix. Who cares now? Like we've gone this far. I have to make a point that really fucking irritates me about this particular movie. When you went to the movie theater, did they have any any merchandise for this film. I don't think so. So again, I went to the IMAX downtown. They don't have like the same kind of like popcorn buckets, things like that. Like an AMC does. But if I remember correctly, they had like a Coliseum as a popcorn bucket somewhere. Yeah. But no, I don't think so. Why? Why do you ask? Okay. Because I went to Regal and Regal had popcorn buckets and cups. And you know what adorned the top of these popcorn buckets and cups? The same helmet. that Maximus Decimus Meridius war. Right. Yeah. And you know, pisses me off about that. You don't see it in this movie. You don't see it at all in this movie. Why wasn't the helmet with his gear? Why wouldn't that have been like a great thing for him to wear out there? Yeah. To like show the people, Hey, Maximus is truly back. Like this is This is a dream come back to reality. Like that would have been such a statement and that was such a missed opportunity in this film, but also such a cash grab on the merchandising of this movie because it has nothing to do with this film. It's not even in it for a split second, maybe during the credits. And then you want to sell it like, like we've had these fucking popcorn buckets laying around for 24 years. We might as well sell them now. You know, like this is some bullshit. I'm just, that's all I wanted to get off my chest. A little rant. Sorry. Really quick, again, sorry, everybody, we were speeding through these reviews, so we don't want to keep you here forever. But plus we want to get into Wicked, think. I will say, kind of talking about the final scene where Lucius eventually confronts Macronus there at the gates of Rome. All of that in camera with all of both armies, both the Roman army and I don't know what the other army was. What was the other army? So it was both armies. It was just led by different generals. gotcha. Because basically it was It was a loyal group of troops that was loyal to the Senate and to Maximus and to, what's his name? Pedro Pascal's character. Hericus? Acacius? Acacius. Yeah. Acacius. And so, yeah, so they were loyal to him. That's why he had the ring. That's why the guy took the ring out to the army and brought them back in because it was that time for them to come in and usurp. the emperors and basically knocked down all that fucking those bonfires and shit that we're going because people are losing their fucking minds in the city. Okay. So is there anything that we missed real quick before we go on to the next one? I will say the only fun thing that I really liked was seeing Roy McCann back. I even leaned over and was like, Hey, is that, is that the hound? Is that, is that Mr. Clegane from game of Thrones? And it was so, only thing that I wanted to say about this movie was, I actually have two things. The first thing is, Holy shit. Did Denzel Washington crush this role? Yeah. Like if there was an outlier for anybody, I mean, he to me, he even overshadowed, Mezcal. interesting. Okay. You know, I think that that to see what is he, he's like 80, 80. No, there's no way he's that old. He's 69 years old. okay. So I'm a little bit off. Nice. He's almost, he's almost 70. He's almost 70. Right. He killed this role. Like his character arc from going to like being, cause like, You expected him to be like this helpful guy, just like from the first one. And then his whole character changed because he wasn't that say, we all wanted him to be that same guy that was rooting for, you know, Maximus and rooting for, for Lucius to be that same like mentor, like teacher, like, like supporter. Fuck no. Like this guy had his own plans, had his own mission and he fucking ran with it. he Denzel crushed that role. He killed it. He was devious. He was evil. He was a motherfucker, like literally. No one plays a motherfucker like Denzel. Yes. He's like one of greatest. He's one of the greatest heels in like Hollywood history. you motherfuckers. Okay. All right. I'm putting cases on all you bitches. Huh? You think you can do this shit? You think you can do this to me? You motherfuckers will be playing basketball in Pelican Bay when I get finished with you. Yes, he brought Gangster to Rome like Gangster. Like he fucking pimped out those senators. Like so hard and I loved I was there for every moment that he was on the screen. He was such a badass So I I loved that For him and that's he was one of the most redeeming qualities about this entire movie. He sort of he tore the regime Apart from the inside. yeah, you know, he pulled a killmonger man. Yeah. Yep. He pulled a baron's emo Yes, yeah, I will say to build off what you said a moment ago paul mescal is is incredible in this movie and I think maybe in a slightly lesser way. This is like his star making moment for, for Paul Mascow. Like he's done a lot of great stuff before Paul Mascow. He's actually sort of like a indie film darling. Have you seen all of the strangers? No, it might've been neon, but it's on Hula right now. if I know, sorry, sorry, a searchlight, but also he did a after sun for may 24, which is one of the best movies from a couple of years ago. he he's awesome. And I think that this is just going to build his stock even more. And then also I think it's worth saying just because this is a comic book podcast that seeing Pedro Pascal and Joseph Quinn in the same movie together, we're going to see them again together next year in Fantastic Four because Joseph Quinn is Johnny Storm and Pedro Pascal's Reed Richards. Just funny to see them. They have that moment there at the end. But anyway, OK, final thoughts on Gladiator. What are your final thoughts, Aaron? Not great. I would say that. Not great. I you said great. I mean, it was good. I said it was good. I'm not saying it was great. I'm not saying it was amazing. I would say that, the other thing that I did want to talk about was this fucking idea of having sharks, fucking sharks in the Coliseum. yeah. And how realistic that was. my They built off the rumor that like they had water games at the Coliseum back in the day. I feel like that's a myth. Well, I think it's like a pretty heavy myth that they're still running with. You know? So. But I'm okay. So, okay. I don't really know how I'm still in like processing what I'm, cause There's so much here. The CGI was pretty good. The battles were amazing. The storyline really just fucked itself. And so it's hard for me to kind of like put it all to sum it all up into whether I liked it I didn't like it because there's so many different things that I like and there's so many different things that I didn't like. OK, so those are my sort of equal parts. Things you loved and didn't love. Yeah, exactly. Interesting. OK, so the biggest take the biggest harp for me is a lot of the CGI. The CGI is not great in some parts again. the water battle there in the beginning, even the water, like what's up with, they can't do water. What's going on here? Like the water in the Coliseum didn't look good either. I agree with you that the action was really good. Again, Paul Maskell starring the making Denzel probably going to get the best supporting actor nom from this. would imagine again, I think this sort of just gave me what I wanted. It didn't blow me away. I wasn't like thinking about this movie much afterwards. I just was like, okay, they didn't fuck it up. Like good. That's, that's like, good. Right. Yeah. So, rating, we're going to rate the thing out of five David Weiner's Aaron, of course, David A. Weiner, documentarian, our Lord and savior. God bless. What you going to give gladiator two out of five David Weiner's? I'm going to give it a three. Okay. I, always do this, but I swear you can look at my letterbox right now. I gave it a 3.5 and I, and I feel, and I even told Olivia on the way home. This is the strongest 3.5 that I could give. It's a strong 3.5. A couple of things here and there could have easily made this a 4.0. Yeah. But it's a solid 3.5. It's like a 3.5 plus. Yes. Yeah. I'm going to give it. I'm going give mine like a three minus three minus. OK. Yeah. OK. All right. Let's get into the movie that I think we both want to talk about maybe slightly more. I would imagine we like more. Aaron, let's talk about Wicked Part 1. Popular. I wanna be popular. Neither of us are Broadway singers. We are not. are not. Here's the thing. Which one of us is Glenda and which one of us is Alphaba? That's racist, man. Why? Elphaba's not black. She's green. I'm gonna say I'm Elphaba. Okay. All right. I guess I'll be Glenda. You're definitely a Glenda. right. initial thoughts on Wicked Part 1. I really enjoyed it. I knew that. I knew that was yeah. It's a really, really good movie everybody. And if you are keeping track at home, I don't know if you want to talk about this or if I felt like we just needed to talk about this. It was I. It was, it was we, it I, it was we, it was us. I was not excited for this movie. I figured I might like the music because I've been known to enjoy musical here there. Like I like, I like a musical. I remember one of your quotes being like, it looks like there was like, there's like CGI vomit. Yeah. The trailers looked really bad because what they did, what, and I might've even predicted this was that wicked, the wicked trailer, all this is CGI shots the entire time. And I hate that. Because what's great, why is the Wizard of Oz so great, Aaron? Now don't mean to compare this movie to a movie that came out in 1939, but why, what's so magical about Wizard of Oz? To be honest, I'm not really sure. I mean, I could think it's a young girl who's taken out of her world and thrust into an adventure. And during its time when it first came out, this was very unlike any other story that was being told. You know, there wasn't a lot of leading actresses. There weren't a lot of, you know, there weren't a lot of stories where you just had like a young girl going on an adventure and then like kind of being the hero of her own like journey. So I couldn't tell you why exactly Wizard of Oz is so popular, but I think it's also just the fact that it's like it is such a fantastic world that has so many different elements that can be explored. I don't know if you know this, but there's like at least 10 or 12 like Oz books by L. Frank Baum. And then also I believe there's also some that were written by his children as well. So there's like a whole like line of just not just, so it's a whole world of stories, know? Two points. The answer to my question was practicality. the reason why the Wizard of Oz is so incredible is because everything is practical. like the movie is a master class and practical effects. I think very vividly of the moment where Dorothy survives, the tornado opens up her door and that techno color. just burst through the screen with Munchkin Land and it's all yellows and blues and greens. And that's just why it's so magical. But to answer your second question, yeah, I would say this movie, along with Wicked, the play and the book, much more connects to the books than the 1939 movie. I think that's pretty, pretty apparent very quickly in this movie. But I'm gonna go to my initial thoughts. Really enjoyed it. I went to go see it again with Olivia and some of her friends. and not to spoil anything at the end, but they were all sobbing by the end of this movie. It is, I think, and I wasn't sobbing, I I, I, I envied them because I felt sort of what they were feeling in that moment. didn't sort of hit me in the same way it did them. But this ending for part one, which was a question I had immediately as the movie ended, was like, how is Aaron going to feel about this movie does not resolve itself. The ending for this movie is gotta be, I think I'm curious to hear your thoughts, Aaron, one of the best. that I've seen in quite a while. What are your thoughts? I don't know if I ever told you there's a little bit of background for me in this movie and that's because for years before even moving to New York, the one show that I wanted to see on Broadway was Wicked. And I had visited a couple of times, tried to get tickets to it. It's just a very, it was very hard. So not too long after finally moving here, we finally got an opportunity to go see Wicked and I was super excited. I loved it. Amazing show. The show itself, just so you're aware, is two and a half hours long. Okay. The whole show. So this movie is as long as the original, as a play. Part one is as long as the entire play. you know, absorb that for a minute. Yeah. But I will say this, that that's part of the reason I was excited to watch this was, but also this is part of the reason that I was hesitant on the, you know, putting my stock into this movie being good or not, because I'm sure you had them in your school. Did you have like, your theater kids. Of course. So if you know your scene kids, your theater kids, you know that these kids, these people grew up to be theater nerds, they're theater adults. And in New York and for some reason, and I actually love it, and I'm gonna try and keep this rant short, Broadway has become its own subgenre of culture. And I love the fact that people are expressing how much they love, for, know, Hamilton coming out was amazing. In the Heights, Katz. Also John Chu. Like all these, know, again, Wicked, there's so many amazing shows out there and it's so dangerous, I'm gonna say, for them to take a show like this and, you know, Hollywood it and knock it out of the park. They did. And there's certain things that you have to do to make sure that it hits those points. And there are several things we'll talk about, like a certain two cameos that were in this movie that really... brought it to its peak and what it was meant to be. saying that, right, and I agree with you, that ending scene, having seen it in the theater and having seen the evolution from a theatrical experience to this cinematic experience, like goosebumps. I had goosebumps. was amazing. And to see like the sheer power, because again, another thing I'll talk about, and we'll get into this, Ariana Grande, I was worried about her. She is more of a poppy kind of silly performer. And I was worried about how she would take this role and she fucking killed it. You're good. So I've been told. It is my heart's desire to become a sorceress. Seriously? I need to lie down. or something, or someone. One, two, three. I mean again, I'll leave it at that and we'll continue to into the into the the review again spoilers ahead but Well done. It was very well done. I don't think enough can be said about Cynthia Rivo and Ariana Ariana Grande in this movie. Absolutely. They are so incredible together and separately and I've never been a big Ariana Grande fan. I think she's sort of She's sort of a I'm gonna say this very lightly everybody. So anybody listening right now? If you hear this and you hate me, I understand, but this is just how I feel. I think Ariana Grande is sort of a grifter of culture. She sort of manipulates and shapes her personality based on the albums she's trying to sell in that moment. She's been hip hop. She's been pop. She's done. mean, you could even say some things about how she's changed her looks. So all that to be said, she's great in this movie and she's hilarious. Honestly, think she like, if you like Cynthia Rivo's performances with Ariana Grande's actual performance as Galinda or Galinda the comedic timing is perfect. Yeah, right. I want to argue. Okay, but also at the same time I agree and I say that I'm arguing because Who in the entertainment industry does not do that? Like even even the fan favorite Taytay has done that she was she used to be a country singer Sure, does anything she's saying now resemble country at all? No, you're no so and here's how I kind of want to break it down to where I'm actually gaining a lot of respect for Ariana Grande, especially, Ariana Grande. Did I say it like that? What is it? Ariana? I think I could be saying it wrong too. I don't know. I I don't give a fuck to say it correctly. Ariana Grande, Ariana Grande, you know, fucking Starbucks, Coco, whatever. so one thing that I like about a celebrity who is in this, in, in roles like this is somebody that can not take themselves so seriously. And one thing I love about Ariana Grande is that if you've ever seen her on SNL, she is so fucking good. She's so good. She is so good. She did one where she was, what is that actress's name? That she's like, my God, I love it. You're talking about Jennifer Coolidge? Jennifer Coolidge. Yeah. like there was a, there was a, there was a skit where she was impersonating Jennifer Coolidge and she crushed it. Like she is really really good lip color goes on like a dream. I better look in the mirror and make sure I didn't miss any. Wow, you look great, Jennifer Coolidge. Really? Me? I do? Heck yeah. Thanks to Maybelline's long-wear liquid lip color. thanks. But yeah, like the fact that she can do that, like that's where she started gaining a little bit of support from me. Again, I was, and at that point I was more worried about her performance in the singing capacity because if you listen to some of these, the soundtracks from the original cast, again, we'll talk about the cameos, like they're very hard shoes to fill from the original cast. And she, again, did very well. So I'm going to leave it at that. I liked it. I kind of take everything. Again, that's the only thing I was worried about leading up into this film were Ariana Grande's, guess, and approaches to that. And then like you were kind of saying some of the CGI, keep hitting my mic, the CGI, but I was wrong. I was proven wrong and I'm excited. Yeah. one quick thing before we move on to the summary here, have you seen the videos of when Ariana Grande was told that she gets to play Glenda in this movie? Yeah, they actually played them, at the beginning of the movie. It's so sweet. I mean, it's really, it is to see her, how emotional she got when she like, this is like her dream role, is so cool. and then Cynthia Revo, I don't think there ever was a video of her learning that she had gotten Elphaba, but who is more qualified than her incredible work. Yeah. She is a like an icon of powerhouse like strength. Yeah. Like I admire her. And even though we know we've had some you and I have had some disagreements of how she approached the poster, the colorization of the poster and kind of that editing of it. But we disagreed together. We didn't disagree together. Yeah, we disagreed together. We agreed on how we disagreed about that situation. But other than that, I mean, we don't have to agree with everything one person does. But she we can agree with the fact that she is killing it as Elphaba. Yeah. Everybody, we're not going get into it now, but just go look up Cynthia Rivas rant about a fan made wicked poster. It's silly. And that's all we'll say. Summary is Elba, a misunderstood young woman because of her green skin and Glinda, a popular girl, got Linda become friends at Shiz University in the land of Oz. After an encounter with the wonderful Wizard of Oz, their friendship reaches a crossroad. The name Elva was created by taking the phonetic pronunciation of the original Wizard of Oz. author L. Frank Baum's initials, LFB, which became Elphaba. Now the tornado that brings Dorothy to Oz and creates a regimen change is hinted at in the first images of the film and throughout it, Elphaba's hat is shaped like an upside down tornado that's reflected in the water that melted the witch. The silver shoes have tornado heels. When Elphaba breaks the glass in the window of her and Galinda's, I did on accident, Galinda's, Galinda shared dorm room, it breaks. in the shape of a hat, a shot particularly frames Glinda within the broken hat shaped glass foreshadowing the fact that she will give Elvaba that very hat and the first item in the Wicked Witch of the West's ensemble. And Madame Morbill, whose powers is to control the weather, has an elaborate hairstyle meant to invoke clouds. Okay, I should also say during this review, Aaron, how much you've seen the entire play. So you know what's happening, what's going to happen in part two. Yes, I didn't until I did the transcript for this. And now I know everything. I'm kind of bummed, but also I've learned to just not really care about spoilers. A lot of it makes sense. We're not going to say any of that here, everybody. So if you have not been spoiled for the second part of the play or the eventual part two of this move of this franchise, don't worry. We're not going to give out any spoilers of that. We're just going to out context for parts of this first part. Yeah. So Aaron, talk about our director here. Okay. So the director was Mr. John Chu, not a sir this time. He's not benighted. Not benighted. Step up to the streets 2008. No, I have not. Neither have I. Step up 3D. No, no. OK. I figured like you'd like that one. The 3D one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I don't. Just kidding. GI Joe retaliation. I have seen it. I like it. I have seen it as well. That's like I talk about some of the stupidest fun action films. That one has what is it? It's that's the one without Channing Tatum. Yeah. It's what Channing Tatum said for like the first five minutes and then gets killed. Yep. I think the second one's with the rock, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He kind of takes over the role. Yeah. Gem in the holograms. 2015. I don't think anybody saw that one. Now you see me too. 2016. I like it. I loved it. I can't wait for the next one. Crazy Rich Asians 2018. So good. That was amazing one. I think that's a heavy award winner. Go watch this and the next movie, everybody. If you have not seen crazy rich Asians and in the Heights 2021, go watch both those right now. Go do it. That in the Heights was, was amazing. That's I really enjoyed that one. Again, that's a Lin-Manuel Miranda vehicle as well. And then this next one, I'm not sure if you've seen it yet, Wicked 2024. I've heard good things. It's also very popular. I'm going to be popular. OK, so for Wicked, practical sets were built and implemented with CGI rather than being filmed on green or blue screens. John Chu wanted the world of Oz to feel like the real place rather than just a computer generated background, which I appreciate. This included planting nine million tulips. many? Nine million tulips to serve as part of the landscape for Munchkin land. Yes. I was just watching a video before we got on here today where the production designer, Nathan Crawley, went through sort of how, okay, so when you think of practical, you think, they just built the sets, but that's not necessarily the case. you have, there's, there's a lot to keep in mind when you're building a practical set other than just recreating something or making it real. You have to sort of, I know at one point they had to when scoping out the land of Shiz University, you had to also showcase Munchkin land off in the background somewhere. Like there's just so much that goes into it. And to hear, there's a really cool video everybody, Nathan Crawley. I'll actually, what I'll do is I'll link it in the show notes. It's about a 20 minute video, but it's really, really cool to see him talk about how he was able to practically recreate Shiz University, Munchkin land, and then eventually Oz. Another fact, John's son, Jonathan Heights, Chew, he was born in 2019, by the way, comes from the film in the Heights. Jonathan Heights, Chew. So he's basically John Jr. But Heights in there. Runtime two hours and minutes. Nice. Two hours and 40 minutes. So this movie is what? Two minutes longer than Gladiator Part 2? No, it's 12 minutes longer than. Yeah, 12 minutes. 12 minutes longer. You know, it's funny. This movie feels significantly shorter. It does. Right. It does. I think it's because we're having a good time. It also feels much more expensive. It does. And Aaron, is it more expensive than Gladiator Part 2? It is not. It is a hundred. One hundred million. That is a gross amount of money. And that is like comically cheaper. One hundred and fifty million dollars cheaper. Gladiator 2 costs Avengers in-game budget. This movie costs like Iron Man 2 budget. Which is insane. Yeah. It's, it's pretty incredible what they were able to do with 150. Again, speaking on the practicality of it all. That's why it's cause they were able to build these sets and they had a master like Nathan Crawley there to create these sets practically. They could reuse over and over again. So they're not hiring 400 plus CGI artists to read, like reconfigure all of these CGI messes. Like it's, I hate it. Let's talk about the box office. We talked a little bit about it in the gladiator two part of the review, but wicked has reached $268 million domestically. 358 worldwide, which currently puts it at the fourth highest grossing movie based on a Broadway musical. It is behind Mamma Mia at $611 million. Le Mies at $442 million and Greece at 396 million. Aaron, I'm almost positive this is going to be all of that. absolutely. So when I went to go see this movie, there were people in line who had waited in line for more than nine hours just to get in. Yeah. And this movie has rewatchability. Like this, I think people are going to go see this multiple times. Multiple times. And this will be in theaters until past Christmas. Cause they're going to, they're going to want people to go, if they hadn't already seen it this month, they're going to want to go, well, this month, we're in December already, but if they didn't see it in November, they're definitely going to see it during Christmas time. Yeah. Release was November 22nd, I believe. Right. Now I say all that to say this among all live action musicals, this is just domestically. Wicked has quite a while to go to burst into the top five. that list is currently being led by Warner Brothers, Barbie at 636 million. That also broke a billion dollars worldwide. The live action Lion King also broke a billion dollars to bet our worldwide, it got 543.6 million domestically beating the beast at 504 million and jungle book at 364 million million and Aladdin at 355 million. So yeah, those are technically all musicals, but are they not really, they're not musicals. never had a friend like me. These are. When I think of musicals, think again of Mamma Mia, Grease. I don't really think of Beauty and the Beast, even though there is music in those movies. we could also notch the third best Black Friday box office of any title behind wanted to, which it was competing against wanted to murder this weekend. Everybody spoilers. We're not going to talk about wanted to, but wanted to got fifty four point five million in its opening weekend and then frozen to at thirty four point one million. How do you feel real quick? I want to ask, how do you feel about the simple fact that this movie came out this close to Christmas, but this far from like summertime? You know, there are like four hotspots each year for movies. You've got early summer. So we're talking like May. That's usually when the MCU drops their shit. We've got like late July, which is like pure blockbuster timeframe. You've got Thanksgiving, Black Friday. That's what we're in right now. And then Christmas. So of those four, I would honestly have been okay with this coming out. If I had to, if I could go back and redo everything, I would have put this out and Christmas because the only movie that was competing with at Christmas is Nosferatu. Yeah. And I don't think you can take grandma weird Christmas movie. You're not going to take grandma to go see Nosferatu. So grandma, granny, let's go watch Nosferatu. Grandma's not waking up. So I think all things considered, I would have put this at Christmas. However, I'm not mad that this came out during Black Friday. I would have loved for Gladiator and Wanted 2 to get a little space from Wicked, but I feel like they're kind of... My reaction would have been these movies are eating into each other, but we just spoke about it. This weekend broke an all time Thanksgiving record at $460 million. So it did well. This is also the first non-Disney musical to gross over a hundred million dollars domestically in its opening weekend, by the way. That's incredible. Let's talk about the composer here. I actually want to hand this off to you because you know, you're the musical guy and I want you to talk a little bit about Stephen Schwartz. Okay. So the composers for this film were John Powell for the score, Stephen Schwartz as the songwriter. Stephen Schwartz wanted to modernize Galinda's big number, Popular, by giving it more of a hip hop style. Ariana Grande, Galinda, was dead set against this suggestion saying, absolutely not. Don't do it. I want to be Glinda, not Ariana Grande playing Glinda, which one thing again, I, I, what I love about Ariana is that she's been, she's been so supportive of this role. She's been very professional about it and she did her homework. she went and She put the time in exactly. And like one thing that we've always respected about actors is when they go and they take over a role, they go and they do their homework and they talk to people who've held the role before. And I know what we're going to talk about this, but I'll just name drop it right now. Kristin Chenoweth, who originally played Galinda in the original like coached her like gave her her blessing like that's an amazing sign off, know, and because that's something that Chris and Jenna with is like Always gonna be remembered for and now probably Ariana Grande will have some of that notoriety as well So the gatekeeper who declares the wizard will see you now at the end of one short day is Stephen Schwartz Who composed the music and wrote the lyrics of the musical? According to John Chu, several birds had built nests in the constructed sets and would sing along with Cynthia, Cynthia Arevo when she was performing. Production assistants had to project calls from birds of prey in order to quiet them before they could film. That's pretty interesting. snow whiting on the set. She's a Disney princess, basically. Let's get into what I think a lot of people want to talk about, which is the songs, of course. Let me ask you this. Did you have anybody sing in your theater? No. Are you happy about this? Yes. Me too, because I did not want to embarrass the group that I was with because I would have yelled at somebody had that happen. That I don't care if this is a musical. I hate it. I hate that so much. I know there's been a couple of celebrities that have said things along the lines of like, it's a musical. People want to go see it. Let them sing along. How about this? They are doing special screenings for people that want to sing along. There are people who have never seen this before who want to enjoy. It's like listening to a record of a new song, a debut of a new song. Just because you've heard it before doesn't mean that other people want to hear you sing along with it just because you enjoy it. know, give people the opportunity to enjoy it by the people who are performing it. And then, you know, go to a specific time where you can sing along. Right there. You just made, you just made them a ton more money just at Christmas for one week only go see Wicked with little bouncing ball and sing along with it the entire time. Like people will go out multiple times to see that again. That's more money in the, in the pocket of Paramount. So Yeah, I think that's a great idea. all right, I'm to go through all the songs here and then Erin, I want to know which one is your favorite song and then which is your favorite dance number in this film. Okay. So we have no one mourns the wicked. We have dear old shiz, the wizard and I, what is this feeling? Something bad dancing through life. My favorite popular. I'm not that girl. One short day, a sentimental man. And of course, That there is or was Which of those is your favorite song living? My favorite song is Defying Gravity. Shocker. Shocker. But I really enjoyed Ariana Grande's rendition of Popular. Because it was slightly different than Kristin Chenoweth's. And then I also like I'm Not That Girl. know, I do like that one. My favorite song is Popular. But my favorite dance numbers actually, dancing through life. Dancing through life. Yes. Yes. That's that was a really cool, Fiero and the whole like library with the, with the revolving library scene. That was really, really cool. They did. They did an awesome job with that. And that song also, again, we're not gonna talk about it, but there's a very, very obvious spoiler in that song and one of the lyrics, but we're not going to talk about it. Just go listen to song. Tell me. No, no, no. We're not going to talk about it because I don't want to spoil it for everybody else, but I'll tell you after we did recording. Aaron, let's get into the cast here. Because I know it's going to happen, but I want to know and you know what's going to happen now. But I want to know this, the spoiler. So the cast is getting that Cynthia Rivo as Alphaba Throp, Ariana Grande Butera as Galinda Upland. Galinda. Jonathan Bailey as Fiero Tigalar. Michelle Yao as Madame Morrible. Slater as Bach Woodsman. Marissa Bode as Nessarose Throp. Peter Dinklage as Dr. Dillamond. Jeff Goldblum as the Wizard, the wonderful Wizard of Oz. I'm just, you know, I always made them less wonderful. The wonderful Wizard of Oz. His full title, please. Yes. Full title. Bowen Yang as Fanny. Bronwyn James as Shen Chen. Annie Nyman as Governor Thropp and then Keala Settle as Miss Cottle. So Cynthia Arrevo and Ariana Grande's performances during their audition reportedly brought John Chu and the crew to tears. Chu also emphasized on ex formerly Twitter. that it was incredibly humbling to witness these actors spill their guts out on the floor for this movie. Apparently they sang every scene. These two actors, just every, didn't, they didn't want to use recordings. They actually sang every single time and actually Defying Gravity at the end of the film was sang on set by Cynthia Revo. Like she, didn't like go into a recording studio. She just sang while acting. That is, that takes an incredible amount of range and breath power. and endurance and all the things. In an interview with the Australian outlet, Popcorn Podcast, Jonathan Bailey said that the horse that he rode in the film is the same horse that he rode when portraying Anthony in Bridgerton. Bailey reportedly felt a connection to the horse Jack when making the series. Since his character in Wicked has a horse, he asked to use Jack. So that's pretty cool. Ariana Grande requested Bowen Yang to play Fanny. When Yang said that he was not allowed to shoot a movie during Saturday Night Live season, Ariana Grande personally called Lauren Michaels to beg eventually they eventually worked out a schedule which required Yang to fly in and out of the country once a week. Wow. That's a schedule. Okay. Marissa boat, AKA Nessa Rose is actually disabled and uses a wheelchair. This is the first time in wicked history that the character has been portrayed by a disabled actor. I love that. I love that they actually use somebody who was in a wheelchair to play this actress and she did a phenomenal job. She's doing, she's doing a phenomenal job. I don't want to shed light or give a platform to idiots, but did you see the video that Marissa Bode put out on on Tik Tok and an Instagram? I did not basically give the long and short of it is that she was like, Hey, listen, I've got a great sense of humor. Okay. I get it. It's funny. I'm in a wheelchair, but if you want to poke fun at Nessa Rose, or if you want to like whatever, that's fine, but let's not let's lay off the name calling. Apparently she had like put a stop to it on social media, which is fucking horrible and evil. If you do that. your piece of shit that right there is unforgivable. I know that it's like cool now to be sort of counterculture and dunk on people who aren't, you know, considered quote unquote normal, but what, what a terrible thing to do. I'm not trying to like sound, I don't see, like, I don't see why they, what they would be saying or, like what they could even do. Like to me, like that's my mind right now is like, I'm just like, Holy shit, she's kicking ass in this role. And she has way more to go in her character development as well. What would you say like to make fun of her because she's in a wheelchair these days? Like that's so stupid. Yeah. And I do want to say sort of shameless brag here is that I leaned over and said, I guessed right who Nessa Rose is eventually going to become. I'm just going to say that. Not going to spoil who she becomes eventually everyone, but I guessed it right during the movie. So Glinda's mother is played by Alice Fern. who also played Alphaba in London West in production of Wicked. And due to her strabismus, CGI was used to align the direction of Ariana Grande's eyes in certain shots. Are you familiar with strabismus? I'm assuming lazy eyes. It's sort of like, it's almost like her eyes don't go to the same direction sometimes. This one might drift. I know a lot of people who have this usually have to wear glasses to sort of keep their eyes going the same direction. But it's interesting they were able to use CGI for this. I think it's interesting that, you know, that she has it, that she, mean, that it's, think it's, would be cool if she talked about a little bit more, maybe, I don't know, maybe kind of advocated for people with, you know, disabilities. Cause that to me sounds like it might be kind of a disability. You just, don't really hear her talking about it, but I mean, Hey, that's on her, you know, do what you got to do. Right. Of the cast here, we sort of talked about a little bit in the beginning. Is there anybody you sort of attached to immediately when this, when this film started and then at the end, who does you feel like most, most closest to? I know we don't have her name here, but like I thought the little girl of Alphaba, the young version of Alphaba, was, was did phenomenally well. Again, I think that Cynthia Rivo is just, is an icon when she's, yeah. And I don't know if I necessarily relate to anybody. I love, you know how much I love Jeff Goldblum. I was going to ask what you thought. That's kind of the main reason why I asked you is because I wanted to get your thoughts on Jeff Goldblum as the Wizard of Oz. You liked it? I did. So I won't I won't reveal too much, but I just thought it was really interesting. We keep dancing around it. I mean, just the fact that we like, you know, they're not like hiding the fact that he was the the person at the beginning of the movie. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. And there was always the father of Alphaba. Yeah. And so the other thing was, you know, at the end of the of the first film, when they go up to the tower, which, okay, so I'll just say something real quick. In the play, there is no balloon in the tower when they escape. Okay. Do they try to go up there and it's not there? Well, they go up there to escape or to escape them being chased. And the only way out is for her to, you know, enchant the broom. So they just added the balloon there as like sort of an action set piece for the film? Yes. And kind of, think another, I don't know, maybe it's like a spoon fed Easter egg. sure. But the other thing that you don't people may not have noticed is when they first go into that tower area, they actually use a cart to block the door and that cart says potions and powders. we're talking about the Marvel guy from the beginning. Exactly. The guy who was selling potions and powders at the beginning of the film. Yeah. So that's, that's another, you know, them alluding to another Easter egg. Sure. I think that he has this ability to be like charming, like, like again, I love Jeff Goldblum. has this, Like cuteness. has this charm about him. He's the definition of whimsy. Yeah. he's, but he's, and he's also able to turn it real quick and kind of like, just like at the drop of a hat. So I think he, I think he was a great choice for the wizard. Absolutely. Well, you know, speaking of Easter eggs, here are some of the more notable Easter eggs for the film sort of leaning into what eventually will become the wizard of Oz. So in the opening, you see Dorothy, Toto, Scarecrow, Tin Man, and the Cowardly Lion walking on the Yelbick road. Of course we all saw it. Alpha's bicycle with the basket on the back. The lion cub peers out the basket, reminiscent of Toto, the dog in the original film and in the book, I'm sure. During the popular segment, there is a pair of sparkly red shoes reminiscent of the ruby slippers. Aaron, have you heard the rumor that they just weren't able to use the ruby slippers for some kind of copyright laws? Is that true? Or are we just not there yet? We're not there yet. OK, all right. When facing the Wizards animatronic massive head, Alphaba is scared and begins to turn and run the exact same way. the cowardly lion lion does in the original. Well, let's go ahead and get into Aaron what I think you're really into, which is the homage to the play. Yes. And so this was one of my favorite parts, because again, I am a firm believer that if anything occurs in a in a film that is a remake, reboot, whatever, there should be some kind of homage respect to respect paid to those that paved the way for. this type of thing. the Wiz-a-mania, when, you know, when Elphaba and Glenda go into the Emerald City, you know, they get, they see this presentation, which is, again, it's a phenomenal presentation of, again, it just, kind of brings the magic, the whimsy, the, honestly, like the mechanical nature of this city. And I think it's also kind of, here's the thing, it's also very like opening to the illusion of what the Emerald City is, that it's more of a mechanical masterpiece than it is a magical masterpiece. So if you're really looking at it surface wise, it's a beautiful magical city, subsurface, it's mechanical, it's machine, it's angry. I'm going to say this with respect and I hope you hear, you don't hear what I'm not saying. It's like gay steampunk. I can, I can see it. like, yeah. Emeraldie gay steampunk. That's, that's what everything's steamy and like, has a, like a, like a neon green to it. Yeah. I don't know. It just the way I saw it. could be Irish steampunk. Sure. all right. Fair enough. But everyone sings it's gay. like it. That's true. That's true. Everything's a musical. That's right. Show tunes. during the wizard mania, one short day, Adina Menzel and Chris and Chana would perform a duet together and later on they stand alongside Alphaba and Glinda. in a passing the torch moment. And again, what Chris was saying and what I'm saying is that Adina Menzel played the original Elphaba in the original, you know, casting of the Broadway show. Chris and Chenoweth was Galinda. it's the, all of the times that I've listened to the, I guess the soundtrack to this, it's been those two singing and it has been iconic. everybody who listens to it loves how iconic it is. And again, that's why it was so important that the new cast really take that torch and run. And I think that a lot of people, if this scene had not been in there, A, it's two things. It is such a fantastic scene that that scene alone will draw people to come back and see it multiple times. It's like cat picking up Mjolnir in Endgame. Like that moment right there will bring you back every time. Perfect analogy. Yep. Perfect. Yeah, and I think that's what the most, like that's what a special thing it was, again, that really proves to the audience who was really hoping for this love to be put in this film, that they would be a part of it. Because without them, it's not the same. And I think that that was, again, such a beautiful accomplishment and moment for the actresses taking up the mantle. That I think it just, again, it really just kind of, I don't know, it brought everything kind of to like a... A beautiful moment. there's other cameos that take place during the sequence. Again, like we talked about earlier, Stephen Schwartz plays the, you know, the gatekeeper. The wizard will see you now. The wizard will see you now. So, then former Fiero understudy Michael McCrory Rose appears as the wisdomania narrator, book writer and screenwriter Winnie Holtzman explains he can read it. He must be a wizard. Adam James and Alice Fern appear briefly as Galinda's parents, nicknamed Popsicle and Momsy by Galinda. Sean Pendergrast appears as Shiz president and Charita Strollen as the Shiz librarian and then various notable West End actors also make cameo appearances in the film including Carrie Ellis, Luke Bayer, Georgina Onura and Diane Helkington. Really cool again as you have been saying this entire time as someone who has not seen the play and is not like have a strong attachment to the wicked sort of property. I knew this moment in the film was so significant and I'm sure It means so much to people who love the theater performance. And it's like when we see Stan Lee in the MCU, like it's just one of those things that doesn't really mean a lot to anybody who doesn't know who Stan Lee is, but it means so much to us who do, right? Cause they're the ones who created this thing in a way. we talked about it earlier and I want to just harp on it one more time. The ending of this movie is fucking phenomenal. You know, we're sitting here talking about the one short day sequence. And while that is incredible, I think And again, this movie is almost three hours long. The final 20 minutes is just worth it in that just to see all that happen. And it's almost like, where do they go from here? Like that the movie, if this movie wasn't successful for some reason, they could have ended it. And in your and I opinion, we, we, this would have been as very successful and appealing ending, but we've got more. We've got, I'm guessing another two and a half hour long movie to get through at some point, but I was so satisfied with this finale. And again, another thing to let people know is if you haven't seen this yet and you've seen the stage play, the one thing that I'm going to say is that it was amazing to see what the stage cast could do with the stage effects. And I don't really know the words to translate it, when you see the, cause here's the thing, that's how amazing this stage show was. And then translate it when you finally get to see those that that beauty and that production on the screen and it becomes that much more real for people like imagine. So for you, imagine you had seen this and you're like, goosebumps from this final scene. Yeah. All right. And then just imagine like a year later, you saw it in like real life, how that would affect you. Like that's how, how it feels going from stage to screen on this, in the stage show, when she gets the, the the cape put around her when Galinda puts the cape around it, which here's the thing. You got to think about this now also. Galinda has given both pieces of her ensemble to her so far. She's given her the hat and she's given her the cloak. So like that's that right there is interesting. But and she was there when she got the broom when she was there when she got the broom when she puts the cape on her and it's just like this normal like sheet. And then she takes off on the stage and what they do on the stage is they do the same thing basically they did in the movie is they somehow magically like extend this thing. It's like this massive magical cloak that almost envelops the whole sky and causes like darkness because that's who she's now. She's now enveloping the fact that I am powerful and I will make you afraid for what you've done. And then what they did in the, in the, movie, because again, like magic like that has not been seen in Oz for like decades, eon, whatever. And so it's amazing to see what they did in that moment with that scene when that cape is just flowing behind her and she's like the lightning's coming and it's green and it's just powerful and she's like breaking windows with her voice. It's just like, holy shit. It's powerful. It's a powerful moment because it was a powerful moment with stage actors. Yeah. You know, so it just translates to being something so spectacular. Yeah. It's interesting to hear you say that. And I think that's a good place to stop to is when she does finally get on the broom and starts flying around and singing Defying Gravity. the cape becoming larger. I was wondering why that was and I sort of thought maybe it might've been an homage to the play. It's good to hear you sort of confirm that. So clearly we had a good time with this movie everybody. Final thoughts, Aaron, on Wicked, part one. I am very impressed with it. I find it to be, it's a fantastic film. The only downturn is that it's part one. Will you go see it again in theaters? No. No? You're good with one time? No, we just bought an 85 inch TV. I don't, I don't need to ever go to the theater again. On those black Friday deals. Yeah. Yeah. I wouldn't mind seeing this again. Honestly, I wouldn't mind. I wouldn't mind. Yeah. And I definitely want to see the play now for sure. Like if, if my endorsement couldn't get any higher, I will say that if nothing else, this has convinced me to go see the Broadway musical at some point. So next time I'm in New York visiting you or seeing wicked, God damn it. All right. Hey, let's I'll fucking do it. Let's do it. Don't throw me with a good time. Don't threaten me with a good time. All right, Aaron, what are you gonna get this thing out of five David Weiner's I'm gonna give it a 4.5. We're gonna we're gonna flip a little bit I'm gonna give it a four It's a solid four as we talked about with gladiator 2 solid 3.5 for gladiator I'm gonna give this a solid for this is I'm gonna sound a little counterproductive and sort of contradict myself I don't know what this movie could have done better mate. I don't know. I don't know. I really loved it Just sit on it. Just not just sit on it Just simmer, let it simmer, come back. And then let me know what you think. Maybe it'll change when we review the second part. Yeah, you know, who knows? But I think that right now, I think your first assessment is where you should stick with it. I think maybe you'll come back and you'll like maybe even a couple days you'll be like, okay, this is, know, maybe there's something else or maybe after the next time you watch it. at least maybe at that point you can kind of verbalize why it's only a four. Like again, I can probably tell you why for me it's only a 4.5. And that's just because I don't like, still trying to figure out where they came up with like an extra hour of just stuff to make the first part an hour, two and a half hours. I don't know. I actually, so I own that, you know, there's also like other novels that go around along with the, wicked series. So there's books that go behind it. So maybe I'll look into that, but yeah, I think for me really, it's just the fact that they found the unnecessary reason to make it two parts. But other than that, I'm, I very much thought it was all, was near, near perfect of an experience in a theater. Is this your favorite movie of the year? No. Stop me when it's, when Wicked is better. Dune part two? It's not better than Dune part two. You told me to stop you when it's better. Stop me when Wicked is better. I apologize. Okay. So Dune part two is better. Mad Max Furiosa? It's better than that. Okay. So is there anything on top of your head that you can think is better than Wicked? Tell me your final thoughts and I'll tell you. I'll look up movies. So I currently have wicked at number 11. The movies that I like more than it are the first Omen, Deadpool, Wolverine, The Substance, Saturday Night, Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes, Enora, The Bike Riders, A Real Pain, Sing Sing and Doom Part Two. It's right above Civil War and Long Legs for me. Better than Deadpool and Wolverine? No. OK. All right. No. I would say everyone turns the podcast off. I would say it's, mean, it's, actually, believe it or not, it's better than alien Romulus for me. Same. Yeah. Same. Okay. All right. Well that'll do it for our review of both gladiator two and wicked. Aaron, we somehow did this in just over 90 minutes. I don't know how. but if this was either glad fucking pros, if this was gladiator part two or wicked part one, we would have had to podcast for another hour because we need to go for two and a half hours, but we have done it again. Thank you everybody so much for listening to this review, a double feature. of both gladiator and wicked part one. Thanks for sticking with us on this one. That's right. Aaron, next week we're to stick with some movies. We're going to be talking about our most anticipated films of 2025. One of our favorite segments each year where we get to talk about all the movies for the next year. Very exciting to talk about all of that. Take us out of here. Aaron, subscribe to our podcast, Apple podcast, Spotify, YouTube, audible, I heart radio, wherever you listen to your favorite podcast, that's where we are. Give us five star rating, please. Thank you to our patrons, Alex, Alice, Aaron, Bodder, Chris S, Chris, why Christie, David, Elliot, George, Gianni, Greg, Haley, hamsticks, Jake, Jeremy, Kyle, Losey, Mac, Miles, Mike, Olivia, Ryan, Robert, Travis, Jack and Brad and Lisa. If you want to support the show without spending any money, follow on your preferred podcasting platform and a five star rating and or review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify helps the show with time. It's called the algorithm. Follow us on social media, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, Blue Sky and threads at oblivion bar pod. Brand new official mission of the show can be found on our website, oblivionbarpodcast.com. Thank you KXD Studios for all of our oblivion bar art. He's at KXD Graphics on Instagram. Thank you DreamKid for all of our musical themes. Thank you DJ Skyvac for our grid theme. And last but not least, do not forget to tape your bartenders 20 % or more, or we'll put you in the bottom of the coliseum with those CGI sharks. We'll throw a house at you and take your slippers and make your feet do a weird curly thing that isn't practical. Well, we'll give you wings like those pain, painful flying monkeys. We'll throw water on you and then you'll you'll melt. I'm melting. Do we ever find out why? Another word at the end. Do we ever find out why she is like doesn't like water? Is there a spoiler free way to explain that? OK, there's no spoiler free way. All right. I already know what happens. I just didn't know there's a spoiler. Like, it's not a spoiler free way, Chris. Let it go. Let it go. Damn it. We'll talk about it. We'll talk about it next year when they put out Wicked Part 2. Yes. All right, everybody. Thank you so much for listening. We will see you next week for episode 176.